UPDATE:

Today I mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years, where
each time I do this easy job, I learn new tricks to make it even easier.

For example, the "drop center" trick that Clare taught me was, by far, the
most critical trick of all. And, this time, I learned that it's a bad idea
leaving the packing tape on the tires as it makes it harder to seat the
bead if the beads are bent inward versus pushed out a bit.

While I've done all sizes from 15" wheels to 17" wheels, these 15" P225/75
Optimo H724 tires have thick sidewalls that make it a bit more difficult
than the 99V passenger car tires to break the 1st bead and seat the 6th
bead.

One mistake I made was to leave the packing tape still on the tires while
they waited for me to find my "round tuit", where the pinching in of the
beads made seating the tire problematic for the few seconds that it takes
to pop the bead into place.

I had to ask a second person to help pull up the upper bead with one hand
and a knee while I pushed up from below with two hands, where another trick
I learned long ago was to adapt an airgun to screw into the Schrader valve
so that filling it with air during the bead-seating process is essentially
hands free.

This mountain eats up everyone's tires, which _never_ get the claimed
mileage (not even close) but I can't use the warranty because I can't prove
that I do all the work myself.

Cost savings at $20/tire = $600 minus about $200 for tools = $400 to date,
but the real value is the satisfaction of being able to do it myself.

Here are some photos, just so you see what it looks like.
o This SUV needs to be taken in for a front-end alignment:
https://i.postimg.cc/q7t7ZRzj/mount01.jpg
o Breaking the 1st bead takes a couple of minutes:
https://i.postimg.cc/26DfF8vq/mount02.jpg
o The outside edge of the front tires wears too much:
https://i.postimg.cc/Hx2Fw0dK/mount03.jpg
o TREADWEAR is said to be 500 (but it won't get that):
https://i.postimg.cc/1zSWvgCZ/mount04.jpg
o The tire valves are about 1-1/2 inch long (.453):
https://i.postimg.cc/sXX4L55b/mount05.jpg
o I replaced the valves with all-metal valves:
https://i.postimg.cc/nVNNvLJn/mount06.jpg
o This home-made adaptor works great to seat the beads:
https://i.postimg.cc/WzZW9MvT/mount07.jpg
o Leaving the packing tape on was a bad idea:
https://i.postimg.cc/DwnjgJY3/mount08.jpg
o I mounted the "red spot" next to the tire valve:
https://i.postimg.cc/Pqq6GGj6/mount09.jpg

For anyone who wants to do it yourself, the tools cost about $200 where I
got most of mine from Harbor Freight, where those tools suck, but they do
the job.

What you need is:
o A dedicated bead breaker (the one with the mounter sucks even worse).
This tool is a pain to use but it breaks a bead in a couple of minutes.
You have to put a board on it because the base is too short.
o A bolted-in tire-mounting tool (you _must_ bolt it down!)
The bead breaker attachment on the mounter is nearly worthless.
o A static bubble balancer
o A set of tire irons (these aren't necessary, but are sometimes helpful
when you have a problem with the 6th and final bead)
o Vise grips - you need them - surprisingly - because the HF mounting tool
handle twists in your hands so the vise grips provide leverage to keep it
from twisting.
o A Schrader Valve Screwdriver (you need this to remove the insert so that
you can quickly fill the tire to set the beads during the final step)
o Dish detergent (everything is surprisingly easy when lubricated)
o Tire marking pen (to mark the inside sidewall after each rotation)
o Wheel weights (to static balance the wheel after mounting)
o Hammer (to tap the wheel weights into place)
o I have a valve-stem removal tool but it's not needed (just use a knife)
o Floor jack, wheel chocks, jack stands, lug wrench, torque wrench (to
remove and replace the wheels from the vehicle)
o Compressor, hoses, chucks, gauges (to seat the bead & fill the tire with
air)

Parts:
o Tires (Costco takes old tires for $1 each, plus sales tax)
o Wheel weights (it seems that 1 to 2 ounces seems to be needed most
o Valve stems (I kind of like the 0.453 diameter 1-1/2 inch steel ones)

On 4/29/19 4:48 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
UPDATE:

Today I mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years, where
each time I do this easy job, I learn new tricks to make it even easier.



I've considered a lot of hobbies to amuse myself while I ride this dirt ball around the Sun but I must admit that tire wrestling is not one of them.Â* But hey, if it blows your skirt up, knock yourself out.

On Monday, April 29, 2019 at 6:08:06 AM UTC-4, Biff Tannen wrote:
On 4/29/19 4:48 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
UPDATE:

Today I mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years, where
each time I do this easy job, I learn new tricks to make it even easier..



I've considered a lot of hobbies to amuse myself while I ride this dirt ball around the Sun but I must admit that tire wrestling is not one of them.Â* But hey, if it blows your skirt up, knock yourself out.

And 30 tires in five years. He's a very busy troll.

On 4/29/2019 4:48 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
UPDATE:

Today I mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years, where
each time I do this easy job, I learn new tricks to make it even easier.


This mountain eats up everyone's tires, which _never_ get the claimed
mileage (not even close) but I can't use the warranty because I can't prove
that I do all the work myself.

Cost savings at $20/tire = $600 minus about $200 for tools = $400 to date,
but the real value is the satisfaction of being able to do it myself.

Whatever works for you. n the past 15 years I paid to have 8 tires
changed. No payback for me.

On Monday, April 29, 2019 at 10:05:42 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/29/2019 4:48 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
UPDATE:

Today I mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years, where
each time I do this easy job, I learn new tricks to make it even easier.


This mountain eats up everyone's tires, which _never_ get the claimed
mileage (not even close) but I can't use the warranty because I can't prove
that I do all the work myself.

Cost savings at $20/tire = $600 minus about $200 for tools = $400 to date,
but the real value is the satisfaction of being able to do it myself.

Whatever works for you. n the past 15 years I paid to have 8 tires
changed. No payback for me.

About the same here, 4 in the last 5 years. Got them mounted at Costco
for $15 each. They will even mount tires that you don't buy there.
And they dynamically balance them too, which you can't do at home.
I do a lot of work on cars myself, brakes, transfer case chain, valve
cover gaskets, water pumps, but not this when you can get it
done in 20 mins for $15 a tire. Those other repairs just use the typical
shop tools that I already have and I saved $$$$. Transfer case chain is
a good example, it would be $3000 at the BMW dealer, I did it for $100.

On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 08:06:31 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote:

About the same here, 4 in the last 5 years. Got them mounted at Costco
for $15 each. They will even mount tires that you don't buy there.

Hi trader_4,

Usenet is a shared information source, sort of like a Potluck Picnic, where
each person tries to bring something of value to all to the picnic table.

Hence, every post is designed to add value for everyone, so I THANK YOU for
that purposefully helpful and very useful information about the Costco
setup.

The Costco near me _used_ to refuse to mount non-Costco tires, so I was
surprised that you said yours mounts non-Costco tires.

Armed with your purposefully helpful information, I called the local Costco
at (831)469-0961 x5 (other), x4 (auto), who confirmed EXACTLY what you just
said!

This is great news, where I'll contribute this to the Potluck Picnic:
o $60 to mount four tires on four wheels (on or off the vehicle)
o $20 to dynamically balance four wheels (if they are off the vehicle)
o $22 to dynamically balance four wheels (if they are on the vehicle)
o $11 to repair a tire
o $1 to dispose of old tires (the guy said that's what they get charged)

In addition:
o They won't let you ship tires to them; but you can bring them in.
o They won't mount tires older than 3 years (based on the date stamp)
o They will rotate & balance tires that are older than 3 years though
o You don¢t get the Costco-tire free lifetime balance & rotation though
o They will not touch tires below the 2/32" wear bars for any purpose

When I asked the Costco guy _when_ this started, the guy said they used to
work on non-Costco tires years ago, and then stopped, and now started it up
only about two years ago.

And they dynamically balance them too, which you can't do at home.

Just to be clear, and to ensure we're always adding value to the potluck
picnic that is Usenet, the empirical dynamic balance test is free, and
extremely easily done "at home".

You just drive the car at highway speeds.
o If you can't feel vibration, it's dynamically balanced (AFAIK).

Besides, with this new information you've kindly brought to the Potluck
Picnic which is Usenet, for $20 in toto, we can _check_ how well we
statically balanced the four wheels.

This is _great_ news you brought up that Costco does this for us!
o Thanks for bringing value for all in the Potluck Picnic that is Usenet

I do a lot of work on cars myself, brakes, transfer case chain, valve
cover gaskets, water pumps, but not this when you can get it
done in 20 mins for $15 a tire.

Hi trader,
I agree with you on your facts of the Costco prices, and on most of your
logic (adults are funny in that facts are easy to agree on, as is rational
logic).

Your logic is that it's "easier" to let Costco do it all for you, where the
facts I'll contribute which affect the logic is that I've never been to
Costco tire center without standing on long lines, even if I get there at
opening time, so the _actual_ time is no where near 20 minutes for four
tires.

Obviously the actual time will vary greatly, but 20 minutes doesn't seem
rational to me for four tires at a typical Costco, which, I hope most
people know, isn't exactly known for short lines (e.g., even the gas
station lines are long, as are the food court lines, and the purchasing
lines, and even the line to ask a question of the eyeglass center or
pharmacists).

Where on earth to you have a Costco which not only has no lines, but which
does the entire job in 20 minutes for four tires, where I can't even get to
the counter in that time frame, let alone have them do all the paperwork
and pay for it, etc. in that time frame?

Those other repairs just use the typical
shop tools that I already have and I saved $$$$. Transfer case chain is
a good example, it would be $3000 at the BMW dealer, I did it for $100.

Hi trader,
As you're aware, I did a clutch a few months back, with the help of this
newsgroup, as I had to replace the flywheel, for example, which required
tools that I couldn't find at the local auto parts stores (the pilot
bearing pulling tools were too large to fit in the ID of the pilot
bearing).

This newsgroup is GREAT for learning things, since there are helpful people
here who contribute to the potluck picnic something that EVERYONE can learn
from.

My contribution is that the job is easy, and it takes about the same amount
of time (when you factor everything in) as having a shop do it, so you
don't do the job at home to save time.

You mostly do the job at home to learn, and to enjoy doing it, and to
relish in the _knowledge_ gained by doing things yourself, which is, after
all, a key purpose of doing _any_ repair by yourself.

As for savings, with this "new costco math", the savings, in 5 years, a
o $450 at Costco for 30 tires minus $200 for tools = savings of only $250

If we add the dynamic balance check, the math becomes:
o $250 minus $20 = about $225 (I'm rounding numbers for easy math)

The key point to make is that there are _benefits_ to home repair
o One key benefit is that you _learn_ more about things
o Another key benefit is that you can do it any time you want to
o Another benefit is that you can do it more often when you do it yourself
o Another benefit is that you can "save" tires they won't repair (if you
want to, as it's your choice based on your decision tree)
o The best benefit is the satisfaction of self sufficiency

The cost benefit is always going to be there ... for example, the tools
almost always pay for themselves ... but that's not the main reason you do
home repair yourself.

The main reason is that you learn about and enjoy home repairs, and that
you have the convenience of doing the job the way you want the job done
(e.g., you use steel tire valves even if the tire shop doesn't use them).

On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 18:02:32 -0000 (UTC), Arlen G. Holder wrote:

As for savings, with this "new costco math", the savings, in 5 years, a
o $450 at Costco for 30 tires minus $200 for tools = savings of only $250

If we add the dynamic balance check, the math becomes:
o $250 minus $20 = about $225 (I'm rounding numbers for easy math)

Oooops. The math may be off a bit as it was off the cuff above, but the
math isnt' the main reason you get satisfaction out of being self
sufficient, just as the math in the enjoyment of composting isn't in the
saving you might get from having a smaller garbage pail.

IMHO, if we want to talk savings, I suspect the real savings are that you
can choose any tire you like when you buy the lowest priced best-quality
tires at a reputable outlet such as "SimpleTire", which, alone, saves you a
ton of money where they don't charge sales tax or shipping most of the time
in addition to having great prices, and _then_ you can mount them yourself,
or, you can have Costco mount & balance them for $15, or, you can have
Costco just balance them for $5.

The point is that most people make excuses when the reality always seems to
be that they just don't like getting their hands dirty on this job, where
the main reason for doing a home repair like this is, IMHO, the
satisfaction of being self sufficient and in doing the job right (e.g.,
metal valves, heavy spot properly placed, fewest wheel weights, etc.).

There are other ancillary advantages, e.g., you can fix things when stores
are closed, you can do them in your pajamas without having to wait in lines
at the shop, you can fix things that they might not touch, e.g., nearer to
the shoulder than they might fix or more worn than they might touch, etc.,
all of which are adult decisions YOU can make, and not them (as long as
you're aware of the RMA guidlines which we all presumably are well aware
of).

You can even patch a leak from the outside, if you do it at home, where
nobody here is likely to be insisting they never did that in their life!


In short, most of what I hear from people as to why they don't like doing
their homework is from people who have _never_ done it.

The ones who have never done it always seem to have the mnost excuses.
o When the fact is that it's trivially easy to mount/balance at home.

As far as I know, only Clare has done it, and he is clear that he doesn't
like doing it, particulrly with ****ty equipment, where I don't disagree
and where I applaud his honesty.

trader_4 wrote: "And they dynamically balance them too, which you can't do at home"

I don't know if it's the same thing, but I insist on
'road-force balancing' whenever I replace, or
rotate my tires.

On Wed, 1 May 2019 18:56:10 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I don't know if it's the same thing, but I insist on
'road-force balancing' whenever I replace, or
rotate my tires.

As I said, I'm allergic to illogical bull****.

While there are times where road force balancing is required, there are
certainly times when it's not required - and hence - a waste of duplicative
effort.

It's sort of like combing your hair a hundred times a day even though your
hair doesn't need combing, or sippering up your zipper when it's already
zippered up, or climbing stairs twice when you already climbed them, or
washing a windshield when it's already clean, or screwing a screw in over
and over again even though it'[s already screwed in, or shining your shoes
again even though they're already shiny, or eating a nice meal, then puking
it out, and then eating it again, and again, and again, or like carrying
around four umbrellas even though one would suffice, etc.

The point is simple:
o You either need it
o Or you don't.

If you don't need it then why insist on it?
o Or, put another way...how do you know you need it?

The real answer is that you just _think_ you need it.
o It's a classic FUD ploy that advertisers live and breathe

The gullible sheep fall for every marketing trick in the book.

I'm not saying RFB isn't a good thing when it's needed.
o I'm simply asking you how you know that you need it?

LOGIC QUESTION:
If you're not feeling any perceptible vibration, what do you think that
expensive Hunter RFB machine is going to gain you?

On 5/2/2019 3:00 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
On Wed, 1 May 2019 18:56:10 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I don't know if it's the same thing, but I insist on
'road-force balancing' whenever I replace, or
rotate my tires.

As I said, I'm allergic to illogical bull****.

While there are times where road force balancing is required, there are
certainly times when it's not required - and hence - a waste of duplicative
effort.

It's sort of like combing your hair a hundred times a day even though your
hair doesn't need combing, or sippering up your zipper when it's already
zippered up, or climbing stairs twice when you already climbed them, or
washing a windshield when it's already clean, or screwing a screw in over
and over again even though it'[s already screwed in, or shining your shoes
again even though they're already shiny, or eating a nice meal, then puking
it out, and then eating it again, and again, and again, or like carrying
around four umbrellas even though one would suffice, etc.

The point is simple:
o You either need it
o Or you don't.

If you don't need it then why insist on it?
o Or, put another way...how do you know you need it?

The real answer is that you just _think_ you need it.
o It's a classic FUD ploy that advertisers live and breathe

The gullible sheep fall for every marketing trick in the book.

I'm not saying RFB isn't a good thing when it's needed.
o I'm simply asking you how you know that you need it?

LOGIC QUESTION:
If you're not feeling any perceptible vibration, what do you think that
expensive Hunter RFB machine is going to gain you?


Why not skip the silly BS and tell us why it is not needed or how we can
tell if needed or not?

Give is facts, not the BS above. Instead of calling people gullible,
educate them.

On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 10:05:40 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 4/29/2019 4:48 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
UPDATE:

Today I mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years, where
each time I do this easy job, I learn new tricks to make it even easier.


This mountain eats up everyone's tires, which _never_ get the claimed
mileage (not even close) but I can't use the warranty because I can't prove
that I do all the work myself.

Cost savings at $20/tire = $600 minus about $200 for tools = $400 to date,
but the real value is the satisfaction of being able to do it myself.

Whatever works for you. n the past 15 years I paid to have 8 tires
changed. No payback for me.
The mounting and ballancing on my Haks was free - cost me the same
mounted and ballanced as "cash and carry" - and repairs are free for
the life of the tire. I changed enough tires in my working years that
I don't need to do it as a hobby - and particularly with ****ty
equipment. As for balancing, a static balance uis betterthan none,
but a 1/4 oz resolution on a dynamic balance is pretty much a
requirement for me at highway speeds. I want my tires running SMOOTH
AS SILK - not just balanced well enough to keep them from shaking the
hubcaps off.

Arlen G. Holder wrote:

o I mounted the "red spot" next to the tire valve:
https://i.postimg.cc/Pqq6GGj6/mount09.jpg

Should I mention that traditionally the red spot is the "high" point of
the tire, and would match with the "low" point of a slightly-not-round
wheel, and the yellow dot is the "light" part of the tire, and matches
with the "heavy" part of the wheel, usually where the valve is? Nah,
that would be mean.

On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 11:05:44 -0700, Sanity Clause wrote:

Should I mention that traditionally the red spot is the "high" point of
the tire, and would match with the "low" point of a slightly-not-round
wheel, and the yellow dot is the "light" part of the tire, and matches
with the "heavy" part of the wheel, usually where the valve is? Nah,
that would be mean.

Hi Sanity Claus,

I appreciate those comments, where, if you have a cite that backs up your
belief system, I think it would be useful to all, as Usenet is designed to
be a potluck picnic where each person adds value where they can.

Without further cites, I'd just note offhand that we have a looooooooong
thread on a.h.r, as I recall, on this topic of exactly what the red and
yellow spots mean, which can be _different_ for each manufacturer (and
which aren't always there).

For example, we've covered that the marks are generally most useful for
brand-new wheels (where the original match mounting marks are still
visible), and we've covered why the light spot is still generally the valve
area (all else being equal, of course), even though there's an "additional"
valve there, simply because the plug of missing steel is generally heavier
than the rubber & brass valve despite the very many old intuitive wives
tales to the contrary.

I'm all about facts, where we've looked at the cites in the past to
conclude that, in the absence of match-mounting marks on the wheel, the
best course for a starting point mount at home is the red spot goes next to
the valve if you have a red spot, and if you have only a yellow spot, as I
recall, it goes opposite the valve (but I'd have to dig up the cites to
doublecheck on that as most tires I've mounted have both the red and yellow
so I only use the red mark as my starting point).

In summary, if you can back up your belief system with a cite, I'll read
it, and if you want, I can dig up cites that back up my belief system since
my belief system is never imaginary - my belief system is _always_ based on
actual facts.

If facts show I need to _change_ my belief system, then I'll change it.
o But at the moment, the facts show the red dot goes next to the valve
(for stock steel wheels, and for most manufacturers' tires)

If you have facts that show otherwise, please cite them so we all benefit
from every post.

On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 20:00:32 -0000 (UTC), Arlen G. Holder wrote:

If facts show I need to _change_ my belief system, then I'll change it.
o But at the moment, the facts show the red dot goes next to the valve
(for stock steel wheels, and for most manufacturers' tires)

I'm always beholden to facts as I abhor imaginary belief systems.

Since I'm allergic to the intuition of old wives tales, but also since my
memory is not even close to perfect, I looked up the cites again, even
though I haven't read them in years, where it must be noted that the only
perfect cite will be one from Hancook, which I didn't find, so we have to
go on what we can find.

This is what Yokohama says about tire match mounting & balancing
https://www.yokohamatire.com/tires-101/advanced-information/match-mounting
"To facilitate proper balancing, Yokohama places red and yellow marks on
the sidewalls of its tires to enable the best possible match-mounting of
the tire/wheel assembly. There are two methods of match-mounting Yokohama
tires to wheel assemblies using these red or yellow marks:

Uniformity (red mark)
"If the point of minimum radial run-out is not indicated on a wheel
assembly, the weight method of match-mounting should be used."

Weight (yellow mark)
"When performing weight match-mounting, the yellow mark on the tire,
indicating the point of lightest weight, should be aligned with the valve
stem on the wheel assembly, which represents the heaviest weight point of
the wheel assembly. "

This is exactly what you said, and the exact opposite of what I had said,
so I appreciate that you bring up that my memory was faulty.

Moving on for confirmation... I'll tackle a couple more hits & respond, but
I wanted to THANK YOU for bringing up the point that my memory was faulty,
which I APPRECIATE greatly!

I'm always beholden to facts as I abhor imaginary belief systems.

On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 20:00:32 -0000 (UTC), "Arlen G. Holder"
wrote:

On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 11:05:44 -0700, Sanity Clause wrote:

Should I mention that traditionally the red spot is the "high" point of
the tire, and would match with the "low" point of a slightly-not-round
wheel, and the yellow dot is the "light" part of the tire, and matches
with the "heavy" part of the wheel, usually where the valve is? Nah,
that would be mean.

Hi Sanity Claus,

I appreciate those comments, where, if you have a cite that backs up your
belief system, I think it would be useful to all, as Usenet is designed to
be a potluck picnic where each person adds value where they can.

Without further cites, I'd just note offhand that we have a looooooooong
thread on a.h.r, as I recall, on this topic of exactly what the red and
yellow spots mean, which can be _different_ for each manufacturer (and
which aren't always there).


IF thare there, they virtually ALWAYS have the same meaning - and
thee cheaper the tire the more critical it is. (in other words- HIGH
QUALITY tires don't have significant runout - OR significant
inballance. - so the significance of the match marks is less.
For example, we've covered that the marks are generally most useful for
brand-new wheels (where the original match mounting marks are still
visible), and we've covered why the light spot is still generally the valve
area (all else being equal, of course), even though there's an "additional"
valve there, simply because the plug of missing steel is generally heavier
than the rubber & brass valve despite the very many old intuitive wives
tales to the contrary.

I'm all about facts, where we've looked at the cites in the past to
conclude that, in the absence of match-mounting marks on the wheel, the
best course for a starting point mount at home is the red spot goes next to
the valve if you have a red spot, and if you have only a yellow spot, as I
recall, it goes opposite the valve (but I'd have to dig up the cites to
doublecheck on that as most tires I've mounted have both the red and yellow
so I only use the red mark as my starting point).

The yellow spot is the LIGHT spot of the tire - the red spot is the
point of MAXIMUM radial rounout - so you want to use the YELLOW spot
as your reference if there is no rim match indicator. Then it is up to
you to decide if you think the valve (metal or rubber) has more
inertial weight than the slug of metal missing from the rim, and
position it accordingly. Either way, the difference is pretty small -
but MIGHT make the difference between needing a 1/2 ounce weight and
not needing any at all.

In summary, if you can back up your belief system with a cite, I'll read
it, and if you want, I can dig up cites that back up my belief system since
my belief system is never imaginary - my belief system is _always_ based on
actual facts.

If facts show I need to _change_ my belief system, then I'll change it.
o But at the moment, the facts show the red dot goes next to the valve
(for stock steel wheels, and for most manufacturers' tires)

https://www.motor.com/magazinepdfs/042008_09.pdf

Note IN PARTICULAR the botton left of page 38 and top right of page
39:
- If a tire does feature color dots on the
sidewall, one or two dots may be used.
A red dot indicates the tire’s radial runout high point. A yellow dot
indicates the tire’s point of least weight,from a balance standpoint.

It also states:

For decades, it was common practice
in the aftermarket to mount a tire so its
red dot aligned with the wheel’s valve
stem, since the valve stem area was normally
assumed to be the wheel’s lowest
point of radial runout. Aligning the tire’s
high point to the wheel’s low point (theoretically)
reduces or eliminates the
chance of developing a radial force variation
(RFV) in the tire/wheel assembly.
RFV (again, an issue of runout, not imbalance)
can cause a vibration that
might be mistakenly diagnosed as an
imbalance problem.
Times change. With the advent of
styled custom wheels, the valve stem location
may no longer indicate the
wheel’s low radial runout spot. In other
words, it may no longer be viable to assume
that aligning a tire’s red dot to the
wheel’s valve stem will address any potential
RFV issues.
Consequently, a procedure that was
once easy has now become complicated.
The only way to accurately matchmount
a tire to a wheel is to actually
measure tire and wheel runout. The end
goal remains the same: to align the tire’s
high point to the wheel’s low point. The
wheel itself can be easily checked for radial
runout by mounting it to a hub and
slowly rotating it while monitoring the
rim edge with a rigidly mounted dial
gauge.

If you have facts that show otherwise, please cite them so we all benefit
from every post.

On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 17:01:19 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:

IF thare there, they virtually ALWAYS have the same meaning - and
thee cheaper the tire the more critical it is. (in other words- HIGH
QUALITY tires don't have significant runout - OR significant
inballance. - so the significance of the match marks is less.

Hi Clare,

Thanks for that reference where I found some references literally _stole_
my pictures, which I take as a compliment! You'll recognize my tires, and
my tools in some of the references below, for example.

As I noted prior, I could have sworn that we used to mount the red dot next
to the valve stem for basic stock steel wheels, where I see you found one
of the old references which mentioned that practice of aligning the valve
stem to the red dot.

I found others which both confirm and deny that assumption, so I have some
homework to do to catch up on what I thought I had known so I hadn't
bothered to look it up recently until now.

For now, we'll assume the meaning of the two colored dots are described
here where "red" === "uniformity" and where "yellow" === weight.
https://www.yokohamatire.com/tires-101/advanced-information/match-mounting

Bear in mind each manufacturer can use different colors, or no dots as
explained here in this canonical Bridgestone summary:
https://forums.redflagdeals.com/f-y-i-meaning-yellow-red-dots-tires-1378801/

https://www.motor.com/magazinepdfs/042008_09.pdf
For decades, it was common practice
in the aftermarket to mount a tire so its
red dot aligned with the wheel’s valve
stem, since the valve stem area was normally
assumed to be the wheel’s lowest
point of radial runout.

Given that reference which you kindly unearthed, I'm not sure which way to
go forward, bearing in mind these aren't custom wheels; they're plain jane
stock steel cheap wheels (but where I also work on the BBS alloy wheels).

Consequently, a procedure that was
once easy has now become complicated.

Here are the articles I'll read to make the decision, all over again,
whether to align the stem to the red or yellow dot, and/or to set up a jig
for checking the high point and low point in radial runout, although, at
home, it would be only static.

This is the canonical publication which no longer seems to exist:
http://www.bridgestonetrucktires.com/us_eng/real/magazines/ra_v13_i1/PDF/ra_v13i1%20ask%20doc.pdf

This seems to be a summary:
https://forums.redflagdeals.com/f-y-i-meaning-yellow-red-dots-tires-1378801/
Red dot === valve stem
Yellow dot === valve stem

o Mounting & custom wheel handling
https://www.motor.com/magazinepdfs/042008_09.pdf
Old method, red dot === valve stem
New method, yellow dot === valve stem

o Bridgestone Tires Red & Yellow Dots
https://www.car-auto-repair.com/tires-balancebridgestone-tires-red-yellow-dots/
Red dot === valve stem (red dot supercedes yellow dot)
Yellow dot === valve stem

o Yokohama mounting procedures
https://www.yokohamatire.com/tires-101/advanced-information/match-mounting
Red dot === not possible at home
Yellow dot === valve stem

o Tire Rack match mounting
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=17&
This explains my comment about OE wheels & tires most needing the dots.

o Red & yellow dots
https://www.tires-easy.com/blog/what-are-the-red-and-yellow-dots-on-my-tires/
Yellow dot === heaviest spot
Red dot === lightest spot

o Continental "coloured dot" markings on car tyres
https://blobs.continental-tires.com/www8/servlet/blob/554548/e3119edf9831c33103e5a771a0fe5717/download-coloured-dot-markings-data.pdf
This one says there's no consistent color for weight but
that there is a consistent color for unifornity (red).

o Match mounting
http://www.livjones.com/2014/04/match-mounting-red-dot-on-tires.html
Red dot === valve stem (red dot supercedes yellow dot)
Yellow dot === valve stem

o Match mounting
https://volvoreview.com/read/tire-mounting-red-yellow-dot
Red dot === valve stem (red dot supercedes yellow dot)
Yellow dot === valve stem

My belief system is based on facts, where I've noticed that most people
seem to have imaginary belief systems, but where, when it's complicated,
then any belief system that works, is fine.

Hence, for now, I'm gonna stick with the old method of red dot === valve
stem, unless there is no red dot, and then yellow dot === valve stem,
unless we can unearth a definitive reference that soundly refutes those
above.

Thanks for keeping an open mind, as you're the only other one on this ng,
that I know of, who has actually mounted & balanced a car tire themselves.

On Tue, 30 Apr 2019 03:13:12 -0000 (UTC), "Arlen G. Holder"
wrote:

On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 17:01:19 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:

IF thare there, they virtually ALWAYS have the same meaning - and
thee cheaper the tire the more critical it is. (in other words- HIGH
QUALITY tires don't have significant runout - OR significant
inballance. - so the significance of the match marks is less.

Hi Clare,

Thanks for that reference where I found some references literally _stole_
my pictures, which I take as a compliment! You'll recognize my tires, and
my tools in some of the references below, for example.

As I noted prior, I could have sworn that we used to mount the red dot next
to the valve stem for basic stock steel wheels, where I see you found one
of the old references which mentioned that practice of aligning the valve
stem to the red dot.

I found others which both confirm and deny that assumption, so I have some
homework to do to catch up on what I thought I had known so I hadn't
bothered to look it up recently until now.

For now, we'll assume the meaning of the two colored dots are described
here where "red" === "uniformity" and where "yellow" === weight.
https://www.yokohamatire.com/tires-101/advanced-information/match-mounting

Bear in mind each manufacturer can use different colors, or no dots as
explained here in this canonical Bridgestone summary:
https://forums.redflagdeals.com/f-y-i-meaning-yellow-red-dots-tires-1378801/

OK - find any credible reference showing the use of yellow and red by
ANY other manufacturer where the colors are switched. ANY. I'm
throwing you the challenge. Remember - it has to be a CREDIBLE
reference - from someone who is guaranteed to know more about the
subject than you - in other words not a hobbyist - but someone
intimately familliar with the company involved.

Are you up for the challenge Mr Holder?
Not saying it isn't out there, or that you won't find it - but I've
never seen it. Mabee someone used green and orange, or white and
yellow, or white and red. - happy hunting.

https://www.motor.com/magazinepdfs/042008_09.pdf
For decades, it was common practice
in the aftermarket to mount a tire so its
red dot aligned with the wheel’s valve
stem, since the valve stem area was normally
assumed to be the wheel’s lowest
point of radial runout.

Given that reference which you kindly unearthed, I'm not sure which way to
go forward, bearing in mind these aren't custom wheels; they're plain jane
stock steel cheap wheels (but where I also work on the BBS alloy wheels).

Consequently, a procedure that was
once easy has now become complicated.

Here are the articles I'll read to make the decision, all over again,
whether to align the stem to the red or yellow dot, and/or to set up a jig
for checking the high point and low point in radial runout, although, at
home, it would be only static.

This is the canonical publication which no longer seems to exist:
http://www.bridgestonetrucktires.com/us_eng/real/magazines/ra_v13_i1/PDF/ra_v13i1%20ask%20doc.pdf

This seems to be a summary:
https://forums.redflagdeals.com/f-y-i-meaning-yellow-red-dots-tires-1378801/
Red dot === valve stem
Yellow dot === valve stem

o Mounting & custom wheel handling
https://www.motor.com/magazinepdfs/042008_09.pdf
Old method, red dot === valve stem
New method, yellow dot === valve stem

o Bridgestone Tires Red & Yellow Dots
https://www.car-auto-repair.com/tires-balancebridgestone-tires-red-yellow-dots/
Red dot === valve stem (red dot supercedes yellow dot)
Yellow dot === valve stem

o Yokohama mounting procedures
https://www.yokohamatire.com/tires-101/advanced-information/match-mounting
Red dot === not possible at home
Yellow dot === valve stem

o Tire Rack match mounting
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=17&
This explains my comment about OE wheels & tires most needing the dots.

o Red & yellow dots
https://www.tires-easy.com/blog/what-are-the-red-and-yellow-dots-on-my-tires/
Yellow dot === heaviest spot
Red dot === lightest spot

o Continental "coloured dot" markings on car tyres
https://blobs.continental-tires.com/www8/servlet/blob/554548/e3119edf9831c33103e5a771a0fe5717/download-coloured-dot-markings-data.pdf
This one says there's no consistent color for weight but
that there is a consistent color for unifornity (red).

o Match mounting
http://www.livjones.com/2014/04/match-mounting-red-dot-on-tires.html
Red dot === valve stem (red dot supercedes yellow dot)
Yellow dot === valve stem

o Match mounting
https://volvoreview.com/read/tire-mounting-red-yellow-dot
Red dot === valve stem (red dot supercedes yellow dot)
Yellow dot === valve stem

My belief system is based on facts, where I've noticed that most people
seem to have imaginary belief systems, but where, when it's complicated,
then any belief system that works, is fine.

Hence, for now, I'm gonna stick with the old method of red dot === valve
stem, unless there is no red dot, and then yellow dot === valve stem,
unless we can unearth a definitive reference that soundly refutes those
above.

Thanks for keeping an open mind, as you're the only other one on this ng,
that I know of, who has actually mounted & balanced a car tire themselves.

Arlen G. Holder wrote:

Thanks for keeping an open mind, as you're the only other one on this ng,
that I know of, who has actually mounted & balanced a car tire themselves.

"Themselves".
Does that mean only those who've done it in their driveway at home, or
does it also include the shop I've worked at for the last 12 years?

Either way, we normally use the yellow dot, not just because it's
"correct" in our little version of reality, but because everyone expects
it. Even if we miss by an inch or two, or the dot has worn off over time
(used tire), or if we get a tire brand that doesn't even use dots, the
balancer makes it all happy again. It's really not that critical.

On 4/29/2019 1:48 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
UPDATE:

Today I mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years, where
each time I do this easy job, I learn new tricks to make it even easier.

Avoid static balancing at all cost.

"sms" wrote in message
...
On 4/29/2019 1:48 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
UPDATE:

Today I mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years, where
each time I do this easy job, I learn new tricks to make it even easier.

Avoid static balancing at all cost.

Thats overstate, its better than nothing.

On Thu, 2 May 2019 03:53:46 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

Today I mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years, where
each time I do this easy job, I learn new tricks to make it even easier.

Avoid static balancing at all cost.

That¢s overstate, its better than nothing.

LOL You just HAVE to auto-contradict. It's better for you than saying
nothing at all, you abnormal 85-year-old senile cretin!

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

On Thu, 2 May 2019 03:53:46 +1000, Rod Speed wrote:

Avoid static balancing at all cost.

That¢s overstate, its better than nothing.

Hi Rod and Steve,

We go way back, mostly on the Apple newsgroups, where you know I speak
valid verifiable facts and that I don't make **** up and that I'm allergic
to bull**** from people who make claims out of their ignorant asses.

You both are well aware that, never once, in thousands of posts, have my
facts ever been materially wrong(1) since I simply don't make **** up.

If I said I did it, then I did it, and if I said it worked, then it worked.

In _my_ experience, with 30 tires, a good static balance appears to work
rather well by the measurement of lack of perceptible vibration at speed.

However, given the new information kindly supplied by Trader about the
Costco $22 triple check on balance, I'm going to take the next set of
wheels to Costco to ask them if they can triple-check my work.

Only then will we have the facts of how different the results are in the
specify set of tires tested.

--
(1) I'm human, so, I must have once or twice in many thousands of posts,
misstated a material fact, especially as Usenet is casual, but nobody can
find any material fact I've stated that was wrong (trust me, they've
tried), which you have to admit is pretty incredible for factual
credibility on Usenet.

On Wed, 1 May 2019 20:59:35 -0000 (UTC), "Arlen G. Holder"
wrote:

On Thu, 2 May 2019 03:53:46 +1000, Rod Speed wrote:

Avoid static balancing at all cost.

That¢s overstate, its better than nothing.

Hi Rod and Steve,

We go way back, mostly on the Apple newsgroups, where you know I speak
valid verifiable facts and that I don't make **** up and that I'm allergic
to bull**** from people who make claims out of their ignorant asses.

You both are well aware that, never once, in thousands of posts, have my
facts ever been materially wrong(1) since I simply don't make **** up.


Fact Check. You are starting to sound like Trump

If I said I did it, then I did it, and if I said it worked, then it worked.

In _my_ experience, with 30 tires, a good static balance appears to work
rather well by the measurement of lack of perceptible vibration at speed.

However, given the new information kindly supplied by Trader about the
Costco $22 triple check on balance, I'm going to take the next set of
wheels to Costco to ask them if they can triple-check my work.

Only then will we have the facts of how different the results are in the
specify set of tires tested.

On Wed, 01 May 2019 18:36:37 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:

Fact Check. You are starting to sound like Trump

Hi Clare,



Let's keep politics out of this since politics is one place where imaginary
belief systems abound, and, as you should know by now, I'm allergic to
bull****, so you can imagine what I think of politicians who spew it.

On 2/5/19 3:53 am, Rod Speed wrote:


"sms" wrote in message
...
On 4/29/2019 1:48 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
UPDATE:

Today I mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years,
where
each time I do this easy job, I learn new tricks to make it even easier.

Avoid static balancing at all cost.

Thats overstate, its better than nothing.

On a modern car it's a waste of time.

--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On Fri, 3 May 2019 20:02:29 +1000, Xeno, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:

That¢s overstate, its better than nothing.

On a modern car it's a waste of time.

Talking to yourself now, you clinically insane, 85-year-old, trolling,
senile pest?

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

On Fri, 3 May 2019 20:02:29 +1000, Xeno wrote:

On a modern car it's a waste of time.

Hi Xeno,

Most people who posted to this thread, IMHO, have proven that they own
completely imaginary belief systems, where the logical proof is that their
ludicrous excuses instantly failed the simplest of the simple tests of any
belief system, which is the three words when someone declares an opion
o Name just one FACT from which that belief system is based upon.

Given these vehicles I'm working on are all about two decades old (give or
take), can you name just one FACT that supports your belief system stated
above?

I'm not saying your belief system is correct, nor am I saying it's not
correct, since you stated your belief system clearly, but you didn't state
even a single fact that backs up that strongly held belief system.

What FACT is your strongly held belief system actually based upon?

On 4/5/19 1:05 am, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
On Fri, 3 May 2019 20:02:29 +1000, Xeno wrote:

On a modern car it's a waste of time.

Hi Xeno,

Most people who posted to this thread, IMHO, have proven that they own
completely imaginary belief systems, where the logical proof is that their
ludicrous excuses instantly failed the simplest of the simple tests of any
belief system, which is the three words when someone declares an opion
o Name just one FACT from which that belief system is based upon.

Given these vehicles I'm working on are all about two decades old (give or
take), can you name just one FACT that supports your belief system stated
above?

I'm not saying your belief system is correct, nor am I saying it's not
correct, since you stated your belief system clearly, but you didn't state
even a single fact that backs up that strongly held belief system.

What FACT is your strongly held belief system actually based upon?

A number of *facts* prime among them being my training and involvement
in the automotive industry as a mechanic since the 60s. First and
foremost, it's clear from what you have written that you do not
understand the concept of *dynamic unbalance* and the ramifications it
has for anyone doing a *static* balance. You make too many assumptions
based on your *limited* experience and minimal training.

First, assume a tyre with a heavy spot central to the centreline of the
tread. this tyre is only in static unbalance. This will cause only wheel
tramp, ie. the bouncing of the wheel and tyre assembly up and down and
should not have any effect on the steering (shimmy). This type of
imbalance can be statically balanced but it requires a little common
sense when applying balance weights. If you apply balance weights
incorrectly you can remove static unbalance but create dynamic unbalance.

Second, assume the same tyre but with the heavy spot over to one side of
the tread and away from the centreline. This tyre is not only in static
unbalance but it is also in *dynamic unbalance*. It will cause wheel
tramp but also steering shimmy. The issue here is that a static balancer
will not tell you which side of the tread area the heavy spot is, only
that it is on that side of the wheel/tyre assembly. That means that when
you add balance weights to the opposite side of the rim, you need to add
weights to both sides. You look at the counterweight needed, then halve
it and add half to each side of the rim opposite the heavy spot. Might
add, when carrying out a static balance you need to always use balance
weights on both sides of the rim at the light spot, even in cases that
are clearly only statically unbalanced, else you will potentially end up
with a dynamically unbalanced wheel. This type of dynamic unbalance can
only be reduced, on average, by 50% even if the static balance is
corrected 100%. The point here is that your steering joints will be
affected by the unbalance

Third, now assume a wheel that has two heavy spots, one each at opposite
points on the wheel diameter. To a static balancer, this wheel assy.
will be balanced producing no wheel tramp. However, assume one heavy
spot is located at the *outside* of the tread centreline and the other
on the opposite side located on the *inside* of the tread centreline.
The wheel is, if both heavy spots are of the same mass, will evince no
tramp but will show up as steering shimmy, the severity of which will
depend on the amount of imbalance and the distance it is located from
the tread centreline. It is caused by the two masses attempting to
alternately get to the centreline. Note too that the type of suspension
system and the steering geometry can play a significant role in the
sensitivity to unbalanced wheels.

So, of the 3 imbalance situations, a static balancer can fully address
the first and only partially address the second depending on the mass
location. In the case of the third imbalance situation, the static
balancer is totally useless. So, to ensure correct balancing over all
situations, a dynamic balancer is the only choice to be made.

As to the situation where, in the past, static balancers covered most
bases, what has changed today? It's simple really, older cars had narrow
tyres fitted to large diameter rims so less prone to dynamic unbalance
effects. Today's cars have much wider tyres so accentuating the
possibility of dynamic imbalance. Road speed with respect to wheel assy.
diameter plays a role in this. That brings me to truck wheel balancing.
Given the large diameter and relatively narrow section width of truck
wheels, static balancing is Ok for most cases. In these cases, on
vehicle balancing, usually of front wheels only, is carried out using
equipment like this;
https://www.bigwheels.net.au/on-vehicle-wheel-balancer
I have done this task many times since the late 60s when I first entered
the trade and I can attest to the efficiacy of this type of balancing
for truck wheels. That, however, was in the past and trucks now travel
at relatively high speeds so dynamic unbalance with consequent steering
shimmy has become an issue with truck wheel balancing. In this case you
*need* an off vehicle dynamic balancer like this;
https://www.bigwheels.net.au/off-vehicle-wheel-balancer

I must add too, just because you feel no vibration or shimmy from the
wheels doesn't mean no imbalance exists. What it means is that the
effect is not being transmitted through to you, the driver. The steering
and suspension may well be feeling the effects and this could cause
aggravated wear in suspension and steering joints. Power steering, for
instance, has an effect on nullifying road feedback. After all,
manufacturers adopted power steering on FWD vehicles in order to reduce
or nullify the effects of unwanted feedback, in this case torque steer.

What would you do if you had a vehicle that had a vibration in the front
through the suspension akin to wheel tramp? Let's assume you static
balanced the wheels with no luck. You checked the tyre for runout, the
rim for runout and the tyre to rim concentricity - all perfect. A spin
up on the dynamic balancer shows the wheels are perfectly balanced both
statically and dynamically yet that vibration in harmony with road speed
persists. Where do you go now? Balance is perfect, runout is perfect,
concentricity is perfect, what is left?




--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

"Xeno" wrote in message
...
On 2/5/19 3:53 am, Rod Speed wrote:


"sms" wrote in message
...
On 4/29/2019 1:48 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
UPDATE:

Today I mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years,
where
each time I do this easy job, I learn new tricks to make it even
easier.

Avoid static balancing at all cost.

Thats overstate, its better than nothing.

On a modern car it's a waste of time.

Sure, but not something that needs to be avoided at all costs.
It can be better than nothing if say you are in the wilds of africa
or my country and there is no proper balancing available and it
will be a while till you can get to where proper balancing is available.

On Friday, May 3, 2019 at 11:36:21 AM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
"Xeno" wrote in message
...
On 2/5/19 3:53 am, Rod Speed wrote:


"sms" wrote in message
...
On 4/29/2019 1:48 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
UPDATE:

Today I mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years,
where
each time I do this easy job, I learn new tricks to make it even
easier.

Avoid static balancing at all cost.

Thats overstate, its better than nothing.

On a modern car it's a waste of time.

Sure, but not something that needs to be avoided at all costs.
It can be better than nothing if say you are in the wilds of africa
or my country and there is no proper balancing available


No proper balancing of tires? And yet the ignorant kangaroo humper
lectures us in America? ROFL We;ve had proper balancing of tires
available all across America for 50 years!







and it
will be a while till you can get to where proper balancing is available.

On Wed, 1 May 2019 06:33:55 -0700, sms wrote:

Avoid static balancing at all cost.

Hi Steve,

The one problem with that statement is that, IMHO, nobody here really seems
to have viable facts for an accuratge percentage of wheels that actually
_need_ to be dynamically balanced when the match mounting and static
balance is done well and where there isn't any perceptible vibration at
speed.

Since you make the strong claim above, do you actually have any statistics
to help us understand what your belief system is actually based upon?

On 1/5/19 11:33 pm, sms wrote:
On 4/29/2019 1:48 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
UPDATE:

Today I mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years, where
each time I do this easy job, I learn new tricks to make it even easier.

Avoid static balancing at all cost.

Static balancing is a waste of time.

--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On Fri, 3 May 2019 20:00:46 +1000, Xeno, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rot Speed, wrote:


Avoid static balancing at all cost.

Static balancing is a waste of time.

Your shifting nyms time and again to avoid detection IS a waste of time, you
clinically insane, trolling, senile pest from Australia!

--
dennis@home to retarded senile Rot:
"sod off rod you don't have a clue about anything."
Message-ID:

On Fri, 3 May 2019 20:00:46 +1000, Xeno wrote:

Static balancing is a waste of time.

What actual fact is your strongly held belief system based upon, Xeno?

On 4/29/2019 1:48 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
UPDATE:

Today I mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years, where
each time I do this easy job, I learn new tricks to make it even easier.

snip

Several issues with DIY static balancing.

First, it's static balancing when you really want dynamic balancing for
proper balance at high speeds.

Second, for tread warranty you need proof of tire rotation which you'll
get when you go in for any rebalancing (if necessary)

Third, Costco, where most people buy their tires, often has 1¢/tire
mounting and balancing offers. I ordered tires during their last sale. I
have an appointment next week. With Costco you can make an appointment,
drop off your car, and by the time you're done shopping the car is ready.

OTOH, I am one of the few people in my city that still does their own
oil changes. As I explained to the spousal unit, who was complaining
that I could spend that time doing something more productive, I can
change the oil in an hour, for $20-25 including an OEM filter and drain
plug gasket. The used oil gets picked up by our garbage service
provider. To take the car into the dealer, driving both ways, and
waiting, would be two hours and cost $35-50 (depending on regular or
synthetic oil and whatever service specials they've mailed out). I don't
trust any of the quick-lube places, the one closest to me was caught in
a sting operation by the Bureau of Automotive Repair, plus they are
about the same price as a dealer and they use low-quality jobber filters.

The newer Toyotas with the cartridge filter are a bit of a pain because
the filter housing is extremely tight. You really need one of the
special cartridge filter wrenches to avoid screwing things up,
https://www.motivxtools.com/collections/oil-filter-wrenches/products/toyota-2-5l-5-7l-oil-filter-wrench?variant=15321139142
https://www.motivxtools.com/collections/oil-filter-wrenches/products/toyota-1-8l-oil-filter-wrench?variant=15323279238

On Tue, 7 May 2019 13:40:24 -0700, sms wrote:

On 4/29/2019 1:48 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
UPDATE:

Today I mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years, where
each time I do this easy job, I learn new tricks to make it even easier.

snip

Several issues with DIY static balancing.

First, it's static balancing when you really want dynamic balancing for
proper balance at high speeds.

Second, for tread warranty you need proof of tire rotation which you'll
get when you go in for any rebalancing (if necessary)

Third, Costco, where most people buy their tires, often has 1¢/tire
mounting and balancing offers.

Whoa. I never bought a tire at Costco, and I know nobody who has bought a tire at Costco.
I'm sure Costco sells a lot of tires, but most people do NOT buy their tires from Costco.

On Tuesday, May 7, 2019 at 4:40:32 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 4/29/2019 1:48 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
UPDATE:

Today I mounted & static balanced my 30th tire in about five years, where
each time I do this easy job, I learn new tricks to make it even easier..

snip

Several issues with DIY static balancing.

First, it's static balancing when you really want dynamic balancing for
proper balance at high speeds.

Second, for tread warranty you need proof of tire rotation which you'll
get when you go in for any rebalancing (if necessary)

And many places, like Costco, tire rotation is free if you buy the tires
there and have them balanced.




Third, Costco, where most people buy their tires, often has 1¢/tire
mounting and balancing offers.

And even if you buy your tires online, Costco will mount them for $15
a tire. But thankfully most people don't buy their tires at Costco
or the line would be forever. Most people don't even have a Costco
membership and when needing tires, there can be better deals elsewhere.


I ordered tires during their last sale. I
have an appointment next week. With Costco you can make an appointment,
drop off your car, and by the time you're done shopping the car is ready.

But you don't get it. That's no good. There was discussion that it takes
too long, that spending the time shopping and having a piece of pizza for
$1.50, is unacceptable and it's better to drop your wheels off, have them
mounted, and then pick them up. (that's what you're dealing with here)