Today the car wouldn't start at a friend's house who had no jumper cables.
He had some electrical wire though.
We were just starting to jury rig something when his wife showed up with
cables in her trunk.

If we did jury rig electrical wires, we were unsure of what size would
work.

How can we determine what size electrical wire would work to jump a typical
sedan in an emergency?

"Hugh Byrne" wrote in message
...
Today the car wouldn't start at a friend's house who had no jumper cables.
He had some electrical wire though.
We were just starting to jury rig something when his wife showed up with
cables in her trunk.

If we did jury rig electrical wires, we were unsure of what size would
work.

How can we determine what size electrical wire would work to jump a
typical
sedan in an emergency?

There is no real way to do that and the quite minimal wire that some
power bank starters is no real indication given that those are much
shorter than normal jumper cables. And what works really depends
on how ****ed the battery in the car that wont start is too. Sometimes
the problem is just that the voltage with the battery in the car which
wont start sags too much to provide enough voltage to see the
spark plugs firing well and that the reason it doesn’t start. So you
don’t necessarily need a lot of current thru the jumper to the car
used to start it, its not actually turning the starter motor over.

Rod Speed wrote:


"Hugh Byrne" wrote in message
...
Today the car wouldn't start at a friend's house who had no
jumper cables.
He had some electrical wire though.
We were just starting to jury rig something when his wife
showed up with
cables in her trunk.

If we did jury rig electrical wires, we were unsure of what
size would
work.

How can we determine what size electrical wire would work to
jump a typical
sedan in an emergency?

There is no real way to do that and the quite minimal wire that some
power bank starters is no real indication given that those are much
shorter than normal jumper cables. And what works really depends
on how ****ed the battery in the car that wont start is too.
Sometimes
the problem is just that the voltage with the battery in the car
which
wont start sags too much to provide enough voltage to see the
spark plugs firing well and that the reason it doesn’t start. So you
don’t necessarily need a lot of current thru the jumper to the car
used to start it, its not actually turning the starter motor over.


Yep, someone gave my wife a pair of "ridiculously cheap"-looking
jumper cables. And they worked when she needed them. In fact,
looking back they have worked for us twice. But it took about 10
minutes of "revving" before the would turn over.

"Bill" wrote in message
...
Rod Speed wrote:


"Hugh Byrne" wrote in message
...
Today the car wouldn't start at a friend's house who had no jumper
cables.
He had some electrical wire though.
We were just starting to jury rig something when his wife showed up with
cables in her trunk.

If we did jury rig electrical wires, we were unsure of what size would
work.

How can we determine what size electrical wire would work to jump a
typical
sedan in an emergency?

There is no real way to do that and the quite minimal wire that some
power bank starters is no real indication given that those are much
shorter than normal jumper cables. And what works really depends
on how ****ed the battery in the car that wont start is too. Sometimes
the problem is just that the voltage with the battery in the car which
wont start sags too much to provide enough voltage to see the
spark plugs firing well and that the reason it doesn’t start. So you
don’t necessarily need a lot of current thru the jumper to the car
used to start it, its not actually turning the starter motor over.


Yep, someone gave my wife a pair of "ridiculously cheap"-looking jumper
cables. And they worked when she needed them. In fact, looking back they
have worked for us twice. But it took about 10 minutes of "revving" before
the would turn over.

That’s different again, using the extra car to charge the battery
in the car that wont start. You don’t need much in the way of
cable between the cars to charge its battery that way.

On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 16:29:47 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


There is no real way to do that

Like what? Make you shut your stupid senile gob finally, you trolling senile
asshole from Oz?

--
dennis@home to retarded senile Rot:
"sod off rod you don't have a clue about anything."
Message-ID:

On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 17:51:28 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:



That¢s different again

LOL The resident senile auto-contradictor ALWAYS has to go one better!
ALWAYS!

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 2:30:00 AM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
"Hugh Byrne" wrote in message
...
Today the car wouldn't start at a friend's house who had no jumper cables.
He had some electrical wire though.
We were just starting to jury rig something when his wife showed up with
cables in her trunk.

If we did jury rig electrical wires, we were unsure of what size would
work.

How can we determine what size electrical wire would work to jump a
typical
sedan in an emergency?

There is no real way to do that

Sure there is moron, just apply Ohms Law and consult a wire gauge table.
An even simpler way is to just look at some jumper cables and select
a similar wire size. More problematic is how to connect that wire to
the batteries, ie people typically don't have giant size alligator
clamps or similar laying around.




and the quite minimal wire that some
power bank starters is no real indication

He said jumper cables moron.

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 2:30:00 AM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
"Hugh Byrne" wrote in message
...
Today the car wouldn't start at a friend's house who had no jumper
cables.
He had some electrical wire though.
We were just starting to jury rig something when his wife showed up
with
cables in her trunk.

If we did jury rig electrical wires, we were unsure of what size would
work.

How can we determine what size electrical wire would work to jump a
typical
sedan in an emergency?

There is no real way to do that

Sure there is moron,

We'll see, ****wit.

just apply Ohms Law and consult a wire gauge table.

Problem is that you need to know the current
involved to do that and need to know if the
reason why the car that wont start wont start.

reams of your even sillier more pig ignorant **** flushed where it belongs

On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 5:45:23 AM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 2:30:00 AM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
"Hugh Byrne" wrote in message
...
Today the car wouldn't start at a friend's house who had no jumper
cables.
He had some electrical wire though.
We were just starting to jury rig something when his wife showed up
with
cables in her trunk.

If we did jury rig electrical wires, we were unsure of what size would
work.

How can we determine what size electrical wire would work to jump a
typical
sedan in an emergency?

There is no real way to do that

Sure there is moron,

We'll see, ****wit.

just apply Ohms Law and consult a wire gauge table.

Problem is that you need to know the current
involved to do that and need to know if the
reason why the car that wont start wont start.

Sizing it for 100 amps should work fine. If you don't like that,
just use my other method, look at the gauge size of existing jumper
cables. Even you could do that. And no, you don't need to know
why the car won't start, though that's certainly helpful. For
example, we wouldn't want a moron like you to waste time trying
to start a car with no gas or no engine.

On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 19:45:10 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


We'll see,

We'll see you trolling on these groups like there was no tomorrow! And with
some luck, there won't be too many tomorrows left for you anymore, you
disgusting abnormal 85-year-old senile pest!

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing senile Rot:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID:

On 4/10/2019 3:03 AM, Bill wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:


"Hugh Byrne" wrote in message
...
Today the car wouldn't start at a friend's house who had no jumper
cables.
He had some electrical wire though.
We were just starting to jury rig something when his wife showed up with
cables in her trunk.

If we did jury rig electrical wires, we were unsure of what size would
work.

How can we determine what size electrical wire would work to jump a
typical
sedan in an emergency?

There is no real way to do that and the quite minimal wire that some
power bank starters is no real indication given that those are much
shorter than normal jumper cables. And what works really depends
on how ****ed the battery in the car that wont start is too. Sometimes
the problem is just that the voltage with the battery in the car which
wont start sags too much to provide enough voltage to see the
spark plugs firing well and that the reason it doesn’t start. So you
don’t necessarily need a lot of current thru the jumper to the car
used to start it, its not actually turning the starter motor over.


Yep, someone gave my wife a pair of "ridiculously cheap"-looking jumper
cables. And they worked when she needed them. In fact, looking back they
have worked for us twice. But it took about 10 minutes of "revving"
before the would turn over.
BTW, not to change topics, but twice recently I was able to start my big
Ford V10 (RV) with a dead battery and a power bank (Li-ion). These
things are great. I have one in each car.

right, the answer is "it depends"
as is the answer to so many interesting questions..

if the battery is good but just needs to be charged, a thin wire carrying a handful of Amps for a few minutes will recharge it enough to start the car.
The actual starting current comes from the recharged battery, not via the cables.

but if the battery or connections are actually defective, and the current to actually start the car needs to come directly via the cables, heavy wire will be needed.

m

On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 9:16:02 AM UTC-4, wrote:
right, the answer is "it depends"
as is the answer to so many interesting questions..

if the battery is good but just needs to be charged,

He specifically said jumping a car to get it started. To me, that
doesn't imply charging it, it's when you've left the lights on
in a parking lot or have a battery that is going bad and use someone
else's car to jump start it right away.



a thin wire carrying a handful of Amps for a few minutes will recharge it enough to start the car.

The problem there is that if you are really "jump starting" it,
to me that means connecting it to another car's battery/alternator
or similar capacity source. If you do that with a dead battery
or mostly discharged battery like you can expect to find and a thin
wire, it's going to melt the wire, because there is nothing to limit
the current to just a few amps.





The actual starting current comes from the recharged battery, not via the cables.

but if the battery or connections are actually defective, and the current to actually start the car needs to come directly via the cables, heavy wire will be needed.

m

On 4/10/2019 2:00 AM, Hugh Byrne wrote:
Today the car wouldn't start at a friend's house who had no jumper cables.
He had some electrical wire though.
We were just starting to jury rig something when his wife showed up with
cables in her trunk.

If we did jury rig electrical wires, we were unsure of what size would
work.

How can we determine what size electrical wire would work to jump a typical
sedan in an emergency?

Most cables are about a 6 gauge wire, better ones are 4 gauge. You
could double up a thinner wire. You also have to figure out how to
connect for good contact too.


I don't recall the last time I needed to use them, but I always carry a
set. I bet you do now too. You can get them for as little at $10.

In article ,
says...

Sizing it for 100 amps should work fine. If you don't like that,
just use my other method, look at the gauge size of existing jumper
cables. Even you could do that. And no, you don't need to know
why the car won't start, though that's certainly helpful. For
example, we wouldn't want a moron like you to waste time trying
to start a car with no gas or no engine.





Most wire size tables are useless for this. They are mainly for
continious use where heat build up can cause a fire or melt insulation.
Jumpers sized by those wire charts will be around size 0 or larger.
Jumper cables are in open air and are only used for a few seconds to
start most cars.

It takes from about 300 amps or more to start the small engines and much
more for the large engines.

Number 6 wire is usually good enough to get most engines running if a
quick start is needed because of a dead battery and a good engine.

It often helps if the battery is dead because the lights were left on
for a while to have the jumpers hooked up for a short period of time to
give the 'dead' battery a slight charge before starting the car.

On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 10:31:13 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

Sizing it for 100 amps should work fine. If you don't like that,
just use my other method, look at the gauge size of existing jumper
cables. Even you could do that. And no, you don't need to know
why the car won't start, though that's certainly helpful. For
example, we wouldn't want a moron like you to waste time trying
to start a car with no gas or no engine.





Most wire size tables are useless for this. They are mainly for
continious use where heat build up can cause a fire or melt insulation.
f

I was referring to wire gauge tables that show resistance per foot of wire.


Jumpers sized by those wire charts will be around size 0 or larger.
Jumper cables are in open air and are only used for a few seconds to
start most cars.

It takes from about 300 amps or more to start the small engines and much
more for the large engines.

It don't think it takes anywhere near that. Typical car starter is
~1200 watts which is ~1.5 hp, so 100 amps is more in the ball park.






Number 6 wire is usually good enough to get most engines running if a
quick start is needed because of a dead battery and a good engine.

So, #6 wire has .0013 ohms per meter, .004 for 3 meters.

100 amps gives you .4 volt drop.
300 amps gives you 1.2 volt drop.





It often helps if the battery is dead because the lights were left on
for a while to have the jumpers hooked up for a short period of time to
give the 'dead' battery a slight charge before starting the car.

On 10/04/19 08:00, Hugh Byrne wrote:
Today the car wouldn't start at a friend's house who had no jumper cables.
He had some electrical wire though.
We were just starting to jury rig something when his wife showed up with
cables in her trunk.

If we did jury rig electrical wires, we were unsure of what size would
work.

How can we determine what size electrical wire would work to jump a typical
sedan in an emergency?

I would start with a 5 AWG if less than 10 ft length.
Climb to 4 AWG size at least for a 12 ft length.

I made up 12 ft cables with 0 AWG size that always work.

The problem with small size jumper cables is not the
overheating, but the voltage drop. If your source is low
of power, it drops alone to 8-9 volts or less under strain,
and adding a drop of 3 volts gives you only 5-6 volts at the
receiving side ... useless.

Resistance of a cable:

R = rho * length / section

where rho is the electrical resistivity. If rho(copper)
is given as

rho(copper) = 1,68 * 10^(-8) ohm*meter

the length should be in meters and the section in squaremeters.
Cable can be made with aluminium (less weight):

rho(aluminium) = 2,65 * 10^(-8) omh*meter

For copper calculated values:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge#Tables_of_AWG_wire_sizes

The suggested 5 AWG for 10 feet length would read as:

0,3133 mΩ/ft * 10 ft = 3,133 mΩ per cable

You need to sum up both cables resistance, that si

3,133 * 2 = 6,266 mΩ = 0,006266 ohms

From Ohm's law, the voltage drop would be:

V = R * I = 0,006266 * I

At I = 100 A you have only a 0,63 voltage drop.
But if I climbs to 500 A you have up to 3,15 volts.


The suggested 4 AWG for 12 feet length would read as:

0,2485 mΩ/ft * 12 ft = 2,982 mΩ per cable

almost as above with the smaller, but shorter cable.


My 0 AWG 12 feet cables read as:

0.09827 mΩ/ft * 12 ft = 1,179 mΩ per cable

and take up to:

I = V / R = 1 / 0,001179 = 848 amperes

before dropping 1 volt.

The trick with the Li-ion power bank cables is that
they are very short, a couple of feet.

In article ,
says...

It takes from about 300 amps or more to start the small engines and much
more for the large engines.

It don't think it takes anywhere near that. Typical car starter is
~1200 watts which is ~1.5 hp, so 100 amps is more in the ball park.







Sure the starter is rated for 100 or less amps while running in the
small cars. As with most all electric motors I know of, it takes 2 to
10 times the running curent to get them to start turning, especially
under load. Most in the 2 to 4 times current. Then add to that a cold
engine in the winter time will take more current to start than one in
the summer time.

The wire has to stand that 200 plus amps with out dropping too much
voltage (including the resistance of the jumper clamps).

Most of the better jumpers will use atleast # 6 copper wire, The real
good ones will be even larger wire. It just gets to a point of how big
and bulkey and expensive one wants to go.

On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 12:37:58 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

It takes from about 300 amps or more to start the small engines and much
more for the large engines.

It don't think it takes anywhere near that. Typical car starter is
~1200 watts which is ~1.5 hp, so 100 amps is more in the ball park.







Sure the starter is rated for 100 or less amps while running in the
small cars. As with most all electric motors I know of, it takes 2 to
10 times the running curent to get them to start turning, especially
under load. Most in the 2 to 4 times current. Then add to that a cold
engine in the winter time will take more current to start than one in
the summer time.

The wire has to stand that 200 plus amps with out dropping too much
voltage (including the resistance of the jumper clamps).

Most of the better jumpers will use atleast # 6 copper wire, The real
good ones will be even larger wire. It just gets to a point of how big
and bulkey and expensive one wants to go.

I agree, all of the above is consistent with what I said.

On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 10:15:14 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/10/2019 2:00 AM, Hugh Byrne wrote:
Today the car wouldn't start at a friend's house who had no jumper cables.
He had some electrical wire though.
We were just starting to jury rig something when his wife showed up with
cables in her trunk.

If we did jury rig electrical wires, we were unsure of what size would
work.

How can we determine what size electrical wire would work to jump a typical
sedan in an emergency?

Most cables are about a 6 gauge wire, better ones are 4 gauge. You
could double up a thinner wire. You also have to figure out how to
connect for good contact too.


I don't recall the last time I needed to use them, but I always carry a
set. I bet you do now too. You can get them for as little at $10.

So, all this is for ICE cars. If you have one of those electric cars
and you are out of juice, at the side of the road, what do they do?
You can't just jump start it, you have to put enough charge it it
to get it somewhere to plug in. So, what do they do? Like if you
have such a car and call AAA what do they do? I expect it's tow you
to someplace to plug in.

In article ,
says...

So, all this is for ICE cars. If you have one of those electric cars
and you are out of juice, at the side of the road, what do they do?
You can't just jump start it, you have to put enough charge it it
to get it somewhere to plug in. So, what do they do? Like if you
have such a car and call AAA what do they do? I expect it's tow you
to someplace to plug in.



You pull out the portable wind generator and solar cell and wait for the
sun to come out or the wind to blow. Just one of the green solutions of
AOC.


Those electric cars may be ok for those that never get out of the city
and only go 10 or 20 miles at a time. Now if they ever get them where
you can recharge them at many places like all the gas service stations
and pumps and in the time it takes to gas up an ICE car they may have
something for me. The battery better last 10 years or more also.

On 4/10/2019 1:24 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

So, all this is for ICE cars. If you have one of those electric cars
and you are out of juice, at the side of the road, what do they do?
You can't just jump start it, you have to put enough charge it it
to get it somewhere to plug in. So, what do they do? Like if you
have such a car and call AAA what do they do? I expect it's tow you
to someplace to plug in.



You pull out the portable wind generator and solar cell and wait for the
sun to come out or the wind to blow. Just one of the green solutions of
AOC.


Those electric cars may be ok for those that never get out of the city
and only go 10 or 20 miles at a time. Now if they ever get them where
you can recharge them at many places like all the gas service stations
and pumps and in the time it takes to gas up an ICE car they may have
something for me. The battery better last 10 years or more also.




They are getting better, but I still have reservations. How is the
climate control in extreme weather? Takes a lot of battery to make the
cabin comfortable in both 0 degrees and 100 degrees. With 311 HP, my
car handles both well and I don't want to compromise.

What happens to the old batteries long term? Are they a potential
ecological disaster?

As far as AOC, she has the right idea. You take a bus to the train
station for travel since we won't have airplanes any more and cars will
be of little need. Her plan is expected to cost $600,000 per household
so I'm saving up to give my contribution. So far, I have a quarter, two
dimes, four pennies and a button in the jar.

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 5:45:23 AM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 2:30:00 AM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
"Hugh Byrne" wrote in message
...
Today the car wouldn't start at a friend's house who had no jumper
cables.
He had some electrical wire though.
We were just starting to jury rig something when his wife showed up
with
cables in her trunk.

If we did jury rig electrical wires, we were unsure of what size
would
work.

How can we determine what size electrical wire would work to jump a
typical
sedan in an emergency?

There is no real way to do that

Sure there is moron,

We'll see, ****wit.

just apply Ohms Law and consult a wire gauge table.

Problem is that you need to know the current
involved to do that and need to know if the
reason why the car that wont start wont start.

Sizing it for 100 amps should work fine.

But it may well work fine when a lower current is used.
And you dont know what voltage a particular car needs
before it will start either, so you are in fact just wanking
with some irrelevant numbers if you do it like that.

If you don't like that, just use my other method,
look at the gauge size of existing jumper cables.

Not viable either given that plenty of them have
much thinner gauge wire than the best of them.
And what matters much more with the worst of
the jumper cables is how the clamps are done
because that limits their performance much
more than the cable gauge in the situation
where high current is needed over the cable
because the battery in the car that wont start
is so ****ed that it wont even turn the engine
over and so needs to deliver the full current
needed to turn the engine over at a decent rate.

And no, you don't need to
know why the car won't start,

Corse you do because that determines the
current that the jumper needs to deliver.
Thats radically different when the battery
in the car that wont start is so ****ed that
it wont even turn the engine over and when
the battery is fine but just flat so that all you
need to do is use the jumper to charge the
battery in the car that wont start.

reams of your even more pig ignorant **** flushed where it belongs

On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 08:03:11 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 10:31:13 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

Sizing it for 100 amps should work fine. If you don't like that,
just use my other method, look at the gauge size of existing jumper
cables. Even you could do that. And no, you don't need to know
why the car won't start, though that's certainly helpful. For
example, we wouldn't want a moron like you to waste time trying
to start a car with no gas or no engine.





Most wire size tables are useless for this. They are mainly for
continious use where heat build up can cause a fire or melt insulation.
f

I was referring to wire gauge tables that show resistance per foot of wire.


Jumpers sized by those wire charts will be around size 0 or larger.
Jumper cables are in open air and are only used for a few seconds to
start most cars.

It takes from about 300 amps or more to start the small engines and much
more for the large engines.

It don't think it takes anywhere near that. Typical car starter is
~1200 watts which is ~1.5 hp, so 100 amps is more in the ball park.






Number 6 wire is usually good enough to get most engines running if a
quick start is needed because of a dead battery and a good engine.

So, #6 wire has .0013 ohms per meter, .004 for 3 meters.

100 amps gives you .4 volt drop.
300 amps gives you 1.2 volt drop.





It often helps if the battery is dead because the lights were left on
for a while to have the jumpers hooked up for a short period of time to
give the 'dead' battery a slight charge before starting the car.

The connection at the clamps is probably the weak link.

trader_4 wrote
wrote

right, the answer is "it depends" as is the
answer to so many interesting questions..

if the battery is good but just needs to be charged,

He specifically said jumping a car to get it started.
To me, that doesn't imply charging it,

Yep, you actually are that terminal a ****wit.

it's when you've left the lights on in a parking lot

But in that case it works fine to use
the jumpers to charge that battery.

or have a battery that is going bad and use
someone else's car to jump start it right away.

Just one of the possibilitys.

a thin wire carrying a handful of Amps for a few
minutes will recharge it enough to start the car.

The problem there is that if you are really "jump starting"
it, to me that means connecting it to another car's battery/
alternator or similar capacity source.

But in some situations the problem is that the car that wont
start will turn the engine over fine but the voltage sags enough
so that the ignition cant supply a good enough spark to get
the engine to fire and all the car that is helping to start it
needs to do is supply enough voltage to get the engine
to actually fire and that doesnt require much current.

If you do that with a dead battery or mostly discharged
battery like you can expect to find and a thin wire, it's
going to melt the wire, because there is nothing to limit
the current to just a few amps.

Yes, but when you are using house wire, as the OP was
planning to do, its not going to be thin enough to melt.

The actual starting current comes from the recharged battery, not via the
cables.

but if the battery or connections are actually defective,
and the current to actually start the car needs to come
directly via the cables, heavy wire will be needed.

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 10:31:13 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

Sizing it for 100 amps should work fine. If you don't like that,
just use my other method, look at the gauge size of existing jumper
cables. Even you could do that. And no, you don't need to know
why the car won't start, though that's certainly helpful. For
example, we wouldn't want a moron like you to waste time trying
to start a car with no gas or no engine.





Most wire size tables are useless for this. They are mainly for
continious use where heat build up can cause a fire or melt insulation.
f

I was referring to wire gauge tables that show resistance per foot of
wire.

But dont know how many amps it has to carry or what
voltage there needs to be at the battery of the car that
wont start so you dont have viable numbers to use.

Jumpers sized by those wire charts will be around size 0 or larger.
Jumper cables are in open air and are only used for a few seconds to
start most cars.

It takes from about 300 amps or more to start the small engines and much
more for the large engines.

It don't think it takes anywhere near that. Typical car starter is
~1200 watts which is ~1.5 hp, so 100 amps is more in the ball park.

More pig ignorant bull****.

Number 6 wire is usually good enough to get most engines running if a
quick start is needed because of a dead battery and a good engine.

So, #6 wire has .0013 ohms per meter, .004 for 3 meters.

100 amps gives you .4 volt drop.
300 amps gives you 1.2 volt drop.

Those numbers are straight from your arse, we can tell from the smell.

It often helps if the battery is dead because the lights were left on
for a while to have the jumpers hooked up for a short period of time to
give the 'dead' battery a slight charge before starting the car.

On 4/10/19 1:43 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
Not viable either given that plenty of them have
much thinner gauge wire than the best of them.
And what matters much more with the worst of
the jumper cables is how the clamps are done
because that limits their performance much
more than the cable gauge in the situation
where high current is needed over the cable
because the battery in the car that wont start
is so ****ed that it wont even turn the engine
over and so needs to deliver the full current
needed to turn the engine over at a decent rate.


Use some telephone station wire then, dingaling!

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 12:37:58 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

It takes from about 300 amps or more to start the small engines and
much
more for the large engines.

It don't think it takes anywhere near that. Typical car starter is
~1200 watts which is ~1.5 hp, so 100 amps is more in the ball park.







Sure the starter is rated for 100 or less amps while running in the
small cars. As with most all electric motors I know of, it takes 2 to
10 times the running curent to get them to start turning, especially
under load. Most in the 2 to 4 times current. Then add to that a cold
engine in the winter time will take more current to start than one in
the summer time.

The wire has to stand that 200 plus amps with out dropping too much
voltage (including the resistance of the jumper clamps).

Most of the better jumpers will use atleast # 6 copper wire, The real
good ones will be even larger wire. It just gets to a point of how big
and bulkey and expensive one wants to go.

I agree, all of the above is consistent with what I said.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

Its useless using 100 amps in the calculation, it needs to be much more.

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 10:15:14 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/10/2019 2:00 AM, Hugh Byrne wrote:
Today the car wouldn't start at a friend's house who had no jumper
cables.
He had some electrical wire though.
We were just starting to jury rig something when his wife showed up
with
cables in her trunk.

If we did jury rig electrical wires, we were unsure of what size would
work.

How can we determine what size electrical wire would work to jump a
typical
sedan in an emergency?

Most cables are about a 6 gauge wire, better ones are 4 gauge. You
could double up a thinner wire. You also have to figure out how to
connect for good contact too.


I don't recall the last time I needed to use them, but I always carry a
set. I bet you do now too. You can get them for as little at $10.

So, all this is for ICE cars. If you have one of those electric cars
and you are out of juice, at the side of the road, what do they do?

You get it towed to where it can be charged, or at most
use a generator to charge it, but it needs to be a pretty
decent generator to charge it enough to get far in a
reasonable time.

You can't just jump start it, you have to put enough charge
it it to get it somewhere to plug in. So, what do they do?

See above.

Like if you have such a car and call AAA what do they do?
I expect it's tow you to someplace to plug in.

Or load it onto a truck and move it that way.

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
k.net...
In article ,
says...

So, all this is for ICE cars. If you have one of those electric cars
and you are out of juice, at the side of the road, what do they do?
You can't just jump start it, you have to put enough charge it it
to get it somewhere to plug in. So, what do they do? Like if you
have such a car and call AAA what do they do? I expect it's tow you
to someplace to plug in.



You pull out the portable wind generator and solar cell and wait for the
sun to come out or the wind to blow. Just one of the green solutions of
AOC.


Those electric cars may be ok for those that never get out of the city
and only go 10 or 20 miles at a time. Now if they ever get them where
you can recharge them at many places like all the gas service stations
and pumps and in the time it takes to gas up an ICE car they may have
something for me.

Wouldn't work for me, I normally do the long distance trips in the
middle of the night because the event I am going to often starts
at 7am etc and it isnt normally on one of the major national
highways so I have to be careful to start full of petrol because
there arent always any 24/7 gas service stations on the way.
Tho fully automatic pumps are now more common.

The battery better last 10 years or more also.

Yeah, I hardly ever turn my cars over at even that rate.
The Golf lasted for 45 years and I only gave up on that
because I had been stupid enough to not fix the known
windscreen leek that would produce a wet floor after
a decent amount of rain until it eventually rusted thru
the floor and could no longer be registered and I couldn't
be arsed to cut out the rust and weld a new bit in.;

I am considering getting a new car now to replace the
Hyundai Getz which is now 13 years old and has only
even had the one fault just lately, windscreen washer
bottle. Basically to get a decent cruise control for those
long trips. The Getz has no cruise control at all and
I would prefer to have one that keeps a distance from
the car in front of you and that isnt feasible with an
addon cruise control. I would also like one that runs
the car at an amount over the speed limit that I
specify and for that to follow the lower speed limits
in the towns along the way completely automatically.
Cant actually find one that will do that last tho even
tho some of the satnav apps will show you the
speed limit from the database I cant find any car
that uses that for the speed for the cruise control.

The Honda Civic does all but that and the cruise
control even keeps working in full traffic jams
where the cars are inching alone with pauses
of tens of minutes at a time, but doesn't use
the database speed limit for the cruise control.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On 4/10/2019 1:24 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

So, all this is for ICE cars. If you have one of those electric cars
and you are out of juice, at the side of the road, what do they do?
You can't just jump start it, you have to put enough charge it it
to get it somewhere to plug in. So, what do they do? Like if you
have such a car and call AAA what do they do? I expect it's tow you
to someplace to plug in.



You pull out the portable wind generator and solar cell and wait for the
sun to come out or the wind to blow. Just one of the green solutions of
AOC.


Those electric cars may be ok for those that never get out of the city
and only go 10 or 20 miles at a time. Now if they ever get them where
you can recharge them at many places like all the gas service stations
and pumps and in the time it takes to gas up an ICE car they may have
something for me. The battery better last 10 years or more also.

They are getting better, but I still have reservations. How is the
climate control in extreme weather?

****ed, particularly in the depths of winter for the longer distance travel.

Takes a lot of battery to make the cabin comfortable in both 0 degrees and
100 degrees. With 311 HP, my car handles both well and I don't want to
compromise.

Me neither.

What happens to the old batteries long term? Are they a potential
ecological disaster?

Not really except in the sense of the lithium mining etc.

As far as AOC, she has the right idea. You take a bus to the train
station for travel since we won't have airplanes any more and cars will be
of little need. Her plan is expected to cost $600,000 per household so
I'm saving up to give my contribution. So far, I have a quarter, two
dimes, four pennies and a button in the jar.

On 4/10/19 2:00 AM, Hugh Byrne wrote:
Today the car wouldn't start at a friend's house who had no jumper cables.
He had some electrical wire though.
We were just starting to jury rig something when his wife showed up with
cables in her trunk.

If we did jury rig electrical wires, we were unsure of what size would
work.

How can we determine what size electrical wire would work to jump a typical
sedan in an emergency?


Google this: car jumper wire minimum gauge

On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 13:24:41 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

You pull out the portable wind generator and solar cell and wait for the
sun to come out or the wind to blow. Just one of the green solutions of
AOC.


Those electric cars may be ok for those that never get out of the city
and only go 10 or 20 miles at a time. Now if they ever get them where
you can recharge them at many places like all the gas service stations
and pumps and in the time it takes to gas up an ICE car they may have
something for me. The battery better last 10 years or more also.


A local news article talked about hiring certified mechanics. One
fellow commented that 75% of candidates applications did no qualify.

The article went on to mention battery replacement and GPS module
repairs in these fancy save the earth electric cars. People are just
not up to snuff on certifications.

Call Uber?

Ed Pawlowski wrote on Wed, 10 Apr 2019 10:15:09 -0400

I don't recall the last time I needed to use them, but I always carry a
set. I bet you do now too. You can get them for as little at $10.

Thank you everyone.
I will get 6 gauge or 4 gauge or even smaller (lower numbers being better
especially for longer distances).

I found a lot to choose from at home depot online
https://www.homedepot.com/b/Automoti...s/N-5yc1vZc8mb
Not so many at Lowes online and much higher prices
https://www.lowes.com/search?searchT...priceLowToHigh

What LENGTH is a good compromise between packing in the trunk & usefulness?
10 feet?
12 feet?
16 feet?
I'm kind of leaning toward buying three sets, one for each car.

On Thu, 11 Apr 2019 03:52:36 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH all of the abnormal 85-year-old senile asshole's usual troll****

....and nothing's left, as usual!

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2019 04:26:04 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

You certainly KEEP bull****ting your way into your grave, FAST, you abnormal
senile sow!

--
dennis@home to retarded senile Rot:
"sod off rod you don't have a clue about anything."
Message-ID:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2019 04:09:20 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Those numbers are straight from your arse, we can tell from the smell.

What you smell is your OWN TROLL**** that you keep spreading on all these
groups, you despicable abnormal 85-year-old trolling senile pest!

--
"Anonymous" to trolling senile Rot Speed:
"You can **** off as you know less than pig **** you sad
little ignorant ****."
MID:

On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 14:54:41 -0400, Wade Garrett
wrote:

On 4/10/19 2:00 AM, Hugh Byrne wrote:
Today the car wouldn't start at a friend's house who had no jumper cables.
He had some electrical wire though.
We were just starting to jury rig something when his wife showed up with
cables in her trunk.

If we did jury rig electrical wires, we were unsure of what size would
work.

How can we determine what size electrical wire would work to jump a typical
sedan in an emergency?


Google this: car jumper wire minimum gauge

Now that is to damn simple...

Use vise grips for clamps.

On Thu, 11 Apr 2019 03:43:56 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the senile asshole's usual senile troll****

03:43 am in Australia, AGAIN? LMAO! Are you afraid that posters here kept
exposing your idiocy overnight again? Is THAT why you NEVER can sleep in,
you abnormal senile sow? LOL

--
Sqwertz to Rot Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

On Thu, 11 Apr 2019 04:51:08 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:



****ed

Nothing could be as ****ed as you are, you subnormal 85-year-old senile
pest!

--
Bill Wright addressing senile Ozzie cretin Rot Speed:
"Well you make up a lot of stuff and it's total ******** most of it."
MID: