A friend has an outdoor wood furnace going to a building. He put two
radiators (the old cast iron type) in the lower level and they heat
well. He put another radiator in the upper floor and that one will not
fill up. It's only heating the bottom of that radiator. I opened the
bleeder while it was running, and no air or water comes out. I then
removed the entire bleeder and still nothing comes out. There does not
appear to be a clog behind that bleeder.

I am thinking one of two possibilities. Either the pump on the furnace
does not have enough pressure to lift the water to that second level, or
else that radistor needs some sort of restriction on it's OUTPUT side to
force the water to the top of the radiator. Currently he just has both
pipes going to the radiator, one to the bottom left, the other to the
bottom right.

(This is a HOT WATER, -NOT- a Steam heat setup).

Anyone have any suggestions?

On 12/18/2018 6:20 PM, wrote:
A friend has an outdoor wood furnace going to a building. He put two
radiators (the old cast iron type) in the lower level and they heat
well. He put another radiator in the upper floor and that one will not
fill up. It's only heating the bottom of that radiator. I opened the
bleeder while it was running, and no air or water comes out. I then
removed the entire bleeder and still nothing comes out. There does not
appear to be a clog behind that bleeder.

I am thinking one of two possibilities. Either the pump on the furnace
does not have enough pressure to lift the water to that second level, or
else that radistor needs some sort of restriction on it's OUTPUT side to
force the water to the top of the radiator. Currently he just has both
pipes going to the radiator, one to the bottom left, the other to the
bottom right.

(This is a HOT WATER, -NOT- a Steam heat setup).

Anyone have any suggestions?

Check the pump capacity.

On 2018-12-18 4:32 p.m., Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 12/18/2018 6:20 PM, wrote:
A friend has an outdoor wood furnace going to a building. He put two
radiators (the old cast iron type) in the lower level and they heat
well. He put another radiator in the upper floor and that one will not
fill up. It's only heating the bottom of that radiator. I opened the
bleeder while it was running, and no air or water comes out. I then
removed the entire bleeder and still nothing comes out. There does not
appear to be a clog behind that bleeder.

I am thinking one of two possibilities. Either the pump on the furnace
does not have enough pressure to lift the water to that second level, or
else that radistor needs some sort of restriction on it's OUTPUT side to
force the water to the top of the radiator. Currently he just has both
pipes going to the radiator, one to the bottom left, the other to the
bottom right.

(This is a HOT WATER, -NOT- a Steam heat setup).

Anyone have any suggestions?

Check the pump capacity.


remove the radiator and run it see if you hear anything like water

On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 6:20:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
A friend has an outdoor wood furnace going to a building. He put two
radiators (the old cast iron type) in the lower level and they heat
well. He put another radiator in the upper floor and that one will not
fill up. It's only heating the bottom of that radiator. I opened the
bleeder while it was running, and no air or water comes out. I then
removed the entire bleeder and still nothing comes out. There does not
appear to be a clog behind that bleeder.

I am thinking one of two possibilities. Either the pump on the furnace
does not have enough pressure to lift the water to that second level, or
else that radistor needs some sort of restriction on it's OUTPUT side to
force the water to the top of the radiator. Currently he just has both
pipes going to the radiator, one to the bottom left, the other to the
bottom right.

(This is a HOT WATER, -NOT- a Steam heat setup).

Anyone have any suggestions?

Any of the other radiators have valves or thermostat valves? If so close them and see what happens. How about filling it up using the air bleed hole? Could be pump head capacity, size of pipes, length of run.

On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 17:20:28 -0600, wrote:

A friend has an outdoor wood furnace going to a building. He put two
radiators (the old cast iron type) in the lower level and they heat
well. He put another radiator in the upper floor and that one will not
fill up. It's only heating the bottom of that radiator. I opened the
bleeder while it was running, and no air or water comes out. I then
removed the entire bleeder and still nothing comes out. There does not
appear to be a clog behind that bleeder.

I am thinking one of two possibilities. Either the pump on the furnace
does not have enough pressure to lift the water to that second level, or
else that radistor needs some sort of restriction on it's OUTPUT side to
force the water to the top of the radiator. Currently he just has both
pipes going to the radiator, one to the bottom left, the other to the
bottom right.

(This is a HOT WATER, -NOT- a Steam heat setup).

Anyone have any suggestions?

Hot water radiators get filled with house water pressure. You bleed it when there is
pressure to it. Make sure the fill valve is open before you bleed it.

Make sure the fill valve is open.

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 18 Dec 2018 18:01:09 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 17:20:28 -0600, wrote:

A friend has an outdoor wood furnace going to a building. He put two
radiators (the old cast iron type) in the lower level and they heat
well. He put another radiator in the upper floor and that one will not
fill up. It's only heating the bottom of that radiator. I opened the
bleeder while it was running, and no air or water comes out. I then
removed the entire bleeder and still nothing comes out. There does not
appear to be a clog behind that bleeder.

I am thinking one of two possibilities. Either the pump on the furnace
does not have enough pressure to lift the water to that second level, or
else that radistor needs some sort of restriction on it's OUTPUT side to
force the water to the top of the radiator. Currently he just has both
pipes going to the radiator, one to the bottom left, the other to the
bottom right.

(This is a HOT WATER, -NOT- a Steam heat setup).

Anyone have any suggestions?

Hot water radiators get filled with house water pressure. You bleed it when there is
pressure to it. Make sure the fill valve is open before you bleed it.

Make sure the fill valve is open.

If the bottom half warms up, doesn't that mean the fill valve is open?

And when I had hot water heat long ago, the water came in bottom left
and left bottom right. It was nice, it didn't make noise, it didn't
make steam, it had no relief valve to fail and dribble, and it only had
to be bled once a year, start of the season. I guess some heat went
back with the water, but it was all indoors so not really lost. I
haven't seen an outdoor wood furnace with indoor radiators.

On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 11:30:04 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 18 Dec 2018 18:01:09 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 17:20:28 -0600, wrote:

A friend has an outdoor wood furnace going to a building. He put two
radiators (the old cast iron type) in the lower level and they heat
well. He put another radiator in the upper floor and that one will not
fill up. It's only heating the bottom of that radiator. I opened the
bleeder while it was running, and no air or water comes out. I then
removed the entire bleeder and still nothing comes out. There does not
appear to be a clog behind that bleeder.

I am thinking one of two possibilities. Either the pump on the furnace
does not have enough pressure to lift the water to that second level, or
else that radistor needs some sort of restriction on it's OUTPUT side to
force the water to the top of the radiator. Currently he just has both
pipes going to the radiator, one to the bottom left, the other to the
bottom right.

(This is a HOT WATER, -NOT- a Steam heat setup).

Anyone have any suggestions?

Hot water radiators get filled with house water pressure. You bleed it when there is
pressure to it. Make sure the fill valve is open before you bleed it.

Make sure the fill valve is open.

If the bottom half warms up, doesn't that mean the fill valve is open?

Maybe. If they are just starting it up, a new system, and they have
this problem, then yes, it would be. But if it's an existing system,
been sitting there for who knows how long, maybe has a leak, etc,
then the valve could be shut. I think modern ones have autofill with
the valve on all the time, but this sounds like a homebrew.

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 18 Dec 2018 18:01:09 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

t
There does not appear to be a clog behind that bleeder.

Do you mean right behind the bleeder? Any clog would likely be farther
down.


Hot water radiators get filled with house water pressure.

Tnat's what I thought. That bleeding is done when the furnace is off
implies there is enough water pressure to fill all the radiators.

Does the home have adequate water pressure at the second floor sinks,
etc?

Are these new radiators or used. Perhaps a thermometer, espeically a
one of those which measures from a distance, or even a bulb thermometer,
could be placed along the ribs of the radiator, moved up and down to
find how high the water goes, and maybe there's a blockage.

Hit it with a mallet or the side of a hammer a few times to dislodge the
scale in an old radiator????


You bleed it when there is
pressure to it. Make sure the fill valve is open before you bleed it.

Make sure the fill valve is open.

Hot water radiators get filled with house water pressure. You bleed it when there is
pressure to it. Make sure the fill valve is open before you bleed it.

Make sure the fill valve is open.

+1

it is not the circulation pump that gets the water to fill the system.

It is the house supply pressure. Make sure the refill supply valve is open when you try to bleed the system.


m

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 9:13:53 AM UTC-5, wrote:

Hot water radiators get filled with house water pressure. You bleed it when there is
pressure to it. Make sure the fill valve is open before you bleed it.

Make sure the fill valve is open.

+1

it is not the circulation pump that gets the water to fill the system.

It is the house supply pressure. Make sure the refill supply valve is open when you try to bleed the system.


m

That's a good point. They typically use an autofill valve, think that's
separate, ie there may be a regular valve followed by an autofill valve.
If the regular valve is open, possible the autofill if there is one,
isn't working. You and Vic are right, if the bleeder is open and the
radiator won't fill, then it's a problem with the water supply being
off or having inadequate pressure, unless somehow the radiator is plugged
behind the bleeder, which seems unlikely. Are those autofill valves
pressure adjustable? Maybe the pressure is set too low?

wrote in message
news
A friend has an outdoor wood furnace going to a building.
He put two
radiators (the old cast iron type) in the lower level and
they heat
well. He put another radiator in the upper floor and that
one will not
fill up. It's only heating the bottom of that radiator. I
opened the
bleeder while it was running, and no air or water comes
out. I then
removed the entire bleeder and still nothing comes out.
There does not
appear to be a clog behind that bleeder.

I am thinking one of two possibilities. Either the pump on
the furnace
does not have enough pressure to lift the water to that
second level, or
else that radistor needs some sort of restriction on it's
OUTPUT side to
force the water to the top of the radiator. Currently he
just has both
pipes going to the radiator, one to the bottom left, the
other to the
bottom right.

(This is a HOT WATER, -NOT- a Steam heat setup).

Anyone have any suggestions?


The outlet should be near the top, not at the bottom.
I would not restrict the flow...no need to....

On 12/18/2018 5:20 PM, wrote:
....

I am thinking one of two possibilities. Either the pump on the furnace
does not have enough pressure to lift the water to that second level, or
else that radistor needs some sort of restriction on it's OUTPUT side to
force the water to the top of the radiator. Currently he just has both
pipes going to the radiator, one to the bottom left, the other to the
bottom right.

(This is a HOT WATER, -NOT- a Steam heat setup).

Yeah, if he's running a single-pipe system, the inlet should be the high
entry point and the exit the low for each radiator...

https://www.diydata.com/planning/central_heating/pipework.php#single

--

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 19 Dec 2018 00:36:04 -0600, dpb
wrote:

On 12/18/2018 5:20 PM, wrote:
...

I am thinking one of two possibilities. Either the pump on the furnace
does not have enough pressure to lift the water to that second level, or
else that radistor needs some sort of restriction on it's OUTPUT side to
force the water to the top of the radiator. Currently he just has both
pipes going to the radiator, one to the bottom left, the other to the
bottom right.

(This is a HOT WATER, -NOT- a Steam heat setup).

Yeah, if he's running a single-pipe system, the inlet should be the high
entry point and the exit the low for each radiator...

https://www.diydata.com/planning/central_heating/pipework.php#single

Good web page. So since the OP says "he just has both
pipes going to the radiator, one to the bottom left, the other to the
bottom right.", he seems likely to have the second kind, Feed and Return Pipes.

On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 1:36:13 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
On 12/18/2018 5:20 PM, wrote:
...

I am thinking one of two possibilities. Either the pump on the furnace
does not have enough pressure to lift the water to that second level, or
else that radistor needs some sort of restriction on it's OUTPUT side to
force the water to the top of the radiator. Currently he just has both
pipes going to the radiator, one to the bottom left, the other to the
bottom right.

(This is a HOT WATER, -NOT- a Steam heat setup).

Yeah, if he's running a single-pipe system, the inlet should be the high
entry point and the exit the low for each radiator...

https://www.diydata.com/planning/central_heating/pipework.php#single

--

It's more common that they are both at the bottom. There may be some
advantage to one at top, one at bottom, but either way works. The
water is hot and it rises to fill the whole thing.