Tekkie® posted for all of us...



Hi all, I ran over a pipe Thursday cutting the passenger side tires on my
2018 Grand Cherokee with only 2100 some miles. I used Jeep assist to call a
tow co that took 90 minutes to arrive (the guy was really nice and lifted us
into the cab) to take us to a local dealership thinking they would have the
tires in stock. They didn't. We got a loaner and found a room. Next day we
pick it up with the tires replaced by OEM and model on the passenger side
and got on the PA Turnpike. What a miserable ride home. Steering wheel not
centered, swaying, pulling and floor and wheel vibration. Had to slow down
and really pay attention. What is normally a 1-1/2 hr drive took 2++. Looked
at tire pressures 44 on most with 45 on left rear. Specs are 32 front and 36
rear. Obviously they saw victims as we live almost 100 miles away and would
never be back. Paid outrageous prices, I mean sky-high. I expected premium
outcome. I got incompetent techs, like a poster here rants about... Only one
mile was on the car between failure and pickup. Obviously no pre-delivery
check.

My questions are, that I asked the dealer about:

Should all 4 tires have been replaced?

Could the back drivers side tire be moved to the right front?

My analysis (through my foggy brain) is that the new tires are defective.

I have texted the salesperson whom sold us the car and she is working with
us. We arrived home after service was closed. I will be contacting the
installing dealership and my local dealership Monday. The local dealership
is also a dealer for the OEM tires. I want to see what is going to happen..
If I have to get 4 tires they will be Michelin. If they give me a good break
on the price I will get them from the local dealer. If not I will go to
another tire dealer who is always lower in price. If I do not get
satisfaction by the end of the week I will dispute the charges.

I want my old driving experience back. The Jeep was a genuine pleasure to
drive! Now it's like driving an old Ford Falcon with sloppy ball joints and
crappy unbalanced bald bias ply tires.

Any thoughts, suggestions very much appreciated.

The dealer just called. Diagnosis: alignment. My wife has an $80 coupon
which they will honor. They tested it at 80 mph. Will return loaner and pick
up. No damage to any suspension parts. They left the new tires on the right
side because they measured the tread depth and found no difference.

Thanks everyone for their posts.

--
Tekkie

On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 2:29:13 PM UTC-4, Tekkie® wrote:
Tekkie® posted for all of us...



Hi all, I ran over a pipe Thursday cutting the passenger side tires on my
2018 Grand Cherokee with only 2100 some miles. I used Jeep assist to call a
tow co that took 90 minutes to arrive (the guy was really nice and lifted us
into the cab) to take us to a local dealership thinking they would have the
tires in stock. They didn't. We got a loaner and found a room. Next day we
pick it up with the tires replaced by OEM and model on the passenger side
and got on the PA Turnpike. What a miserable ride home. Steering wheel not
centered, swaying, pulling and floor and wheel vibration. Had to slow down
and really pay attention. What is normally a 1-1/2 hr drive took 2++. Looked
at tire pressures 44 on most with 45 on left rear. Specs are 32 front and 36
rear. Obviously they saw victims as we live almost 100 miles away and would
never be back. Paid outrageous prices, I mean sky-high. I expected premium
outcome. I got incompetent techs, like a poster here rants about... Only one
mile was on the car between failure and pickup. Obviously no pre-delivery
check.

My questions are, that I asked the dealer about:

Should all 4 tires have been replaced?

Could the back drivers side tire be moved to the right front?

My analysis (through my foggy brain) is that the new tires are defective.

I have texted the salesperson whom sold us the car and she is working with
us. We arrived home after service was closed. I will be contacting the
installing dealership and my local dealership Monday. The local dealership
is also a dealer for the OEM tires. I want to see what is going to happen.
If I have to get 4 tires they will be Michelin. If they give me a good break
on the price I will get them from the local dealer. If not I will go to
another tire dealer who is always lower in price. If I do not get
satisfaction by the end of the week I will dispute the charges.

I want my old driving experience back. The Jeep was a genuine pleasure to
drive! Now it's like driving an old Ford Falcon with sloppy ball joints and
crappy unbalanced bald bias ply tires.

Any thoughts, suggestions very much appreciated.

The dealer just called. Diagnosis: alignment. My wife has an $80 coupon
which they will honor. They tested it at 80 mph. Will return loaner and pick
up. No damage to any suspension parts. They left the new tires on the right
side because they measured the tread depth and found no difference.

Thanks everyone for their posts.

--
Tekkie

That explains all the symptoms except the vibration. IDK how alignment
would cause vibration, you should ask them that.

On 5/2/2018 2:28 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 2:29:13 PM UTC-4, Tekkie® wrote:
....

The dealer just called. Diagnosis: alignment. My wife has an $80 coupon
which they will honor. They tested it at 80 mph. Will return loaner and pick
up. No damage to any suspension parts. They left the new tires on the right
side because they measured the tread depth and found no difference.

Thanks everyone for their posts.

--
Tekkie

That explains all the symptoms except the vibration. IDK how alignment
would cause vibration, you should ask them that.

I'd wager they rebalanced as well just didn't say so, specifically.

Most times I find the service rep that calls is just that; all he has to
go on is the service order, he didn't do any of the work and just reads
off the highlights, not necessarily every minute detail...if there's
something need to know specifically usually ends up having to actually
talk to the tech/mechanic to find out just what they actually did in detail.

--

On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 3:43:24 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 5/2/2018 2:28 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 2:29:13 PM UTC-4, Tekkie® wrote:
...

The dealer just called. Diagnosis: alignment. My wife has an $80 coupon
which they will honor. They tested it at 80 mph. Will return loaner and pick
up. No damage to any suspension parts. They left the new tires on the right
side because they measured the tread depth and found no difference.

Thanks everyone for their posts.

--
Tekkie

That explains all the symptoms except the vibration. IDK how alignment
would cause vibration, you should ask them that.

I'd wager they rebalanced as well just didn't say so, specifically.

Most times I find the service rep that calls is just that; all he has to
go on is the service order, he didn't do any of the work and just reads
off the highlights, not necessarily every minute detail...if there's
something need to know specifically usually ends up having to actually
talk to the tech/mechanic to find out just what they actually did in detail.

--

Certainly possible. On the other hand when the ticket these days can include
everything from a disposal fee to a "shop fee" and an "inventory fee", you
would think if they had to check the balance on the tires, it would be on
the work order. Decades ago, if you bought new tires or had a fluid
changed, that was part of the service, no separate fees. The disposal charge
cropped up first, and is kind of legitimate, with old tires for example.
Oil ATF, no sure about, because I think they get rid of those for free
or maybe even get paid for. The shop fee is a classic. The ones that
do that, total up all the work, then put that on top, which IMO is shystering.

Hope he gets it straightened out. And you may be right, it's possible the
service writer just didn't tell him. BTW, that's something that's changed..
In a modern dealership, God knows how many people they have, I think I
counted like 8 there last time. All likely on commission of course.

On Wed, 2 May 2018 14:43:04 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 5/2/2018 2:28 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 2:29:13 PM UTC-4, Tekkie® wrote:
...

The dealer just called. Diagnosis: alignment. My wife has an $80 coupon
which they will honor. They tested it at 80 mph. Will return loaner and pick
up. No damage to any suspension parts. They left the new tires on the right
side because they measured the tread depth and found no difference.

Thanks everyone for their posts.

--
Tekkie

That explains all the symptoms except the vibration. IDK how alignment
would cause vibration, you should ask them that.

I'd wager they rebalanced as well just didn't say so, specifically.

Most times I find the service rep that calls is just that; all he has to
go on is the service order, he didn't do any of the work and just reads
off the highlights, not necessarily every minute detail...if there's
something need to know specifically usually ends up having to actually
talk to the tech/mechanic to find out just what they actually did in detail.



From a tech article in HotRod Magazine's site

Alignment

Sometimes an elusive shimmy or vibration stems from an improper wheel
alignment. The two main culprits are toe and caster.

Toe


Toe describes the longitudinal relationship between two wheels on an
axle. Toe-in: wheels point toward each other in the direction of
travel; toe-out: wheels point away from each other in the direction of
travel.

The front wheels on most rear-drive road cars benefit from a touch of
toe-in. It compensates for the road force that can induce a toe-out
condition. Toe-in also eliminates lash in the various components,
which enhances straight-line stability.

Excessive toe-in can induce a bear of a shake. It causes the tires to
fight each other for traction and the rapid release/traction cycle can
cause a shake. It also wears tires unevenly, which causes its own
problems.

Toe settings vary by suspension design so start with the specs that
the original manufacturer determined for the suspension under your
car. But don’t treat these specs as if they’re set in stone. Your
vehicle’s dimensions may differ considerably from what the
manufacturer intended so you may have to slightly alter toe settings.
Remember that bias-ply tires neither need nor tolerate as much toe as
radial tires do.

Caster


Caster in a roundabout way generates tracking stability. It refers to
the Steering Axis Inclination (SAI)—the line plotted through the
kingpin or through both ball-joint centerlines—as viewed from the
wheel face.

What actually generates the stability is the relationship between the
point where the SAI intersects the ground and the tire’s contact
patch. Most vehicles feature negative caster, meaning the tire follows
the point where the SAI intersects the ground. In fact, motorcyclists
express this tracking-stability dimension by the distance that the
tire “trails” the SAI where it intersects the ground. Increasing this
distance increases the force by which the front wheels center
themselves. That makes a car feel more stable at speed.

But that force sword has a second edge: excessive caster/trail can
generate enough force to steer the wheel beyond center and slightly
into the other direction. If conditions are just right the centering
forces can volley the wheel rapidly left and right in a shimmy.
Motorcyclists have a more descriptive term for this too: Death wobble
or tank slapper. Anyone who’s experienced it in a car or on a bike can
testify that it’s terrifyingly scary and it goes away only if you
reduce speed dramatically.

Clare Snyder posted for all of us...



On Wed, 2 May 2018 14:43:04 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 5/2/2018 2:28 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 2:29:13 PM UTC-4, Tekkie® wrote:
...

The dealer just called. Diagnosis: alignment. My wife has an $80 coupon
which they will honor. They tested it at 80 mph. Will return loaner and pick
up. No damage to any suspension parts. They left the new tires on the right
side because they measured the tread depth and found no difference.

Thanks everyone for their posts.

--
Tekkie

That explains all the symptoms except the vibration. IDK how alignment
would cause vibration, you should ask them that.

I'd wager they rebalanced as well just didn't say so, specifically.

Most times I find the service rep that calls is just that; all he has to
go on is the service order, he didn't do any of the work and just reads
off the highlights, not necessarily every minute detail...if there's
something need to know specifically usually ends up having to actually
talk to the tech/mechanic to find out just what they actually did in detail.



From a tech article in HotRod Magazine's site

Alignment

Sometimes an elusive shimmy or vibration stems from an improper wheel
alignment. The two main culprits are toe and caster.

Toe


Toe describes the longitudinal relationship between two wheels on an
axle. Toe-in: wheels point toward each other in the direction of
travel; toe-out: wheels point away from each other in the direction of
travel.

The front wheels on most rear-drive road cars benefit from a touch of
toe-in. It compensates for the road force that can induce a toe-out
condition. Toe-in also eliminates lash in the various components,
which enhances straight-line stability.

Excessive toe-in can induce a bear of a shake. It causes the tires to
fight each other for traction and the rapid release/traction cycle can
cause a shake. It also wears tires unevenly, which causes its own
problems.

Toe settings vary by suspension design so start with the specs that
the original manufacturer determined for the suspension under your
car. But don?t treat these specs as if they?re set in stone. Your
vehicle?s dimensions may differ considerably from what the
manufacturer intended so you may have to slightly alter toe settings.
Remember that bias-ply tires neither need nor tolerate as much toe as
radial tires do.

Caster


Caster in a roundabout way generates tracking stability. It refers to
the Steering Axis Inclination (SAI)?the line plotted through the
kingpin or through both ball-joint centerlines?as viewed from the
wheel face.

What actually generates the stability is the relationship between the
point where the SAI intersects the ground and the tire?s contact
patch. Most vehicles feature negative caster, meaning the tire follows
the point where the SAI intersects the ground. In fact, motorcyclists

I drove it yesterday, albeit not on the turnpike, but it seems better. I
will have to determine my satisfaction at high speed. The tech and writer
both drove it so I will go by what they say. The alignment report showed out
of spec readings prior. I don't have it handy to post. The writer said it
was out front to back on the right side. They also charged me $50 more for
the four wheel alignment. I forgot to mention the vehicle also has an air
suspension so we can get in and out more comfortably. Why the first dealer
didn't do an alignment is a mystery to me. As I would have gone for it. I
didn't suggest or demand it nor either did they. It was a very stressful
time for my wife and me.

--
Tekkie

On Friday, May 4, 2018 at 2:28:37 PM UTC-4, Tekkie® wrote:
Clare Snyder posted for all of us...



On Wed, 2 May 2018 14:43:04 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 5/2/2018 2:28 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 2:29:13 PM UTC-4, Tekkie® wrote:
...

The dealer just called. Diagnosis: alignment. My wife has an $80 coupon
which they will honor. They tested it at 80 mph. Will return loaner and pick
up. No damage to any suspension parts. They left the new tires on the right
side because they measured the tread depth and found no difference.

Thanks everyone for their posts.

--
Tekkie

That explains all the symptoms except the vibration. IDK how alignment
would cause vibration, you should ask them that.

I'd wager they rebalanced as well just didn't say so, specifically.

Most times I find the service rep that calls is just that; all he has to
go on is the service order, he didn't do any of the work and just reads
off the highlights, not necessarily every minute detail...if there's
something need to know specifically usually ends up having to actually
talk to the tech/mechanic to find out just what they actually did in detail.



From a tech article in HotRod Magazine's site

Alignment

Sometimes an elusive shimmy or vibration stems from an improper wheel
alignment. The two main culprits are toe and caster.

Toe


Toe describes the longitudinal relationship between two wheels on an
axle. Toe-in: wheels point toward each other in the direction of
travel; toe-out: wheels point away from each other in the direction of
travel.

The front wheels on most rear-drive road cars benefit from a touch of
toe-in. It compensates for the road force that can induce a toe-out
condition. Toe-in also eliminates lash in the various components,
which enhances straight-line stability.

Excessive toe-in can induce a bear of a shake. It causes the tires to
fight each other for traction and the rapid release/traction cycle can
cause a shake. It also wears tires unevenly, which causes its own
problems.

Toe settings vary by suspension design so start with the specs that
the original manufacturer determined for the suspension under your
car. But don?t treat these specs as if they?re set in stone. Your
vehicle?s dimensions may differ considerably from what the
manufacturer intended so you may have to slightly alter toe settings.
Remember that bias-ply tires neither need nor tolerate as much toe as
radial tires do.

Caster


Caster in a roundabout way generates tracking stability. It refers to
the Steering Axis Inclination (SAI)?the line plotted through the
kingpin or through both ball-joint centerlines?as viewed from the
wheel face.

What actually generates the stability is the relationship between the
point where the SAI intersects the ground and the tire?s contact
patch. Most vehicles feature negative caster, meaning the tire follows
the point where the SAI intersects the ground. In fact, motorcyclists

I drove it yesterday, albeit not on the turnpike, but it seems better. I
will have to determine my satisfaction at high speed. The tech and writer
both drove it so I will go by what they say. The alignment report showed out
of spec readings prior. I don't have it handy to post. The writer said it
was out front to back on the right side. They also charged me $50 more for
the four wheel alignment. I forgot to mention the vehicle also has an air
suspension so we can get in and out more comfortably. Why the first dealer
didn't do an alignment is a mystery to me. As I would have gone for it. I
didn't suggest or demand it nor either did they. It was a very stressful
time for my wife and me.

--
Tekkie

They only sell you those extra services when you don't need them and don't want them. I was looking to get 4 tires mounted and one of the local tire shops that had good reviews has a $49 option for nitrogen. Soon as i saw that, I crossed them off the list. It's bizarre that with a car that jumped a curb, blew 2 tires, a car dealership would not tell you that it should be aligned. Hopefully it's good now.