I was browsing around my credit card's website and these are two
categories of options for customer service:

Card Services
Debit Card Services

Activate My Debit Card
Deactivate My Debit Card
Reissue My Existing Debit Card or ATM Card
Change My Debit Card PIN

CREDIT CARD SERVICES

Report a Lost or Stolen Card
Replace a Damaged Card
Dispute or Ask About a charge
Request Account Disclosures


Isn't it strange none of the choices for debit cards are choices for
credit cards, and not vice versa either.

I would assume that all 8 apply to both (although I don't know what
account disclosures are. Is that the terms and conditions?)

On 12/15/2017 9:38 AM, micky wrote:

I was browsing around my credit card's website and these are two
categories of options for customer service:

Card Services
Debit Card Services

Activate My Debit Card
Deactivate My Debit Card
Reissue My Existing Debit Card or ATM Card
Change My Debit Card PIN

CREDIT CARD SERVICES

Report a Lost or Stolen Card
Replace a Damaged Card
Dispute or Ask About a charge
Request Account Disclosures


Isn't it strange none of the choices for debit cards are choices for
credit cards, and not vice versa either.

I would assume that all 8 apply to both (although I don't know what
account disclosures are. Is that the terms and conditions?)


I can do those debit card things using my phone app or on the web but it
is the bank web site, not the Master Card site that I do it. My debit
card is from a local bank, the CC are not so I can't do those at the
same place anyway.

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 15 Dec 2017 09:57:49 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 12/15/2017 9:38 AM, micky wrote:

I was browsing around my credit card's website and these are two
categories of options for customer service:

Card Services
Debit Card Services

Activate My Debit Card
Deactivate My Debit Card
Reissue My Existing Debit Card or ATM Card
Change My Debit Card PIN

CREDIT CARD SERVICES

Report a Lost or Stolen Card
Replace a Damaged Card
Dispute or Ask About a charge
Request Account Disclosures


Isn't it strange none of the choices for debit cards are choices for
credit cards, and not vice versa either.

I would assume that all 8 apply to both (although I don't know what
account disclosures are. Is that the terms and conditions?)


I can do those debit card things using my phone app or on the web but it
is the bank web site, not the Master Card site that I do it.

I guess I was ambiguous, or - dash the thought - wrong. I was in the
credit card section of the bank's web site.

My debit
card is from a local bank, the CC are not so I can't do those at the
same place anyway.

Same for me. It's not that I want to do the other four things, or even
the four things I can do there. I just don't understand why 4 relate to
credit and 4 relate to debit, in their opinion. Will they let one
temporarity deactivate his debit card but not his credit card? I
thought people with credit got treated better than those other guys, so
they should have that ability too. Etc.

On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 8:57:57 AM UTC-6, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I can do those debit card things using my phone app or on the web but it
is the bank web site, not the Master Card site that I do it. My debit
card is from a local bank, the CC are not so I can't do those at the
same place anyway.


Same here. My credit cards are not with my local bank either.

Changing the subject a bit, Ed. I have an appointment next Thursday
to drive the car I'm interested in buying. Wish me luck! But if I
don't come home with a new car then it's just not meant for me have
one. I've been steeling myself to not be disappointed if we can't
come to a deal.

On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 09:38:09 -0500, micky
wrote:


I was browsing around my credit card's website and these are two
categories of options for customer service:

Card Services
Debit Card Services

Activate My Debit Card
Deactivate My Debit Card
Reissue My Existing Debit Card or ATM Card
Change My Debit Card PIN

CREDIT CARD SERVICES

Report a Lost or Stolen Card
Replace a Damaged Card
Dispute or Ask About a charge
Request Account Disclosures


Isn't it strange none of the choices for debit cards are choices for
credit cards, and not vice versa either.

I would assume that all 8 apply to both (although I don't know what
account disclosures are. Is that the terms and conditions?)

Debit cards are different than credit cards although some may combine
both on the same piece of plastic.
It is 2 separate operations at the bank

Changing the subject a bit, Ed. I have an appointment next Thursday
to drive the car I'm interested in buying. Wish me luck! But if I
don't come home with a new car then it's just not meant for me have
one. I've been steeling myself to not be disappointed if we can't
come to a deal.


Put on your poker face and walk in with a clear idea of
how-much you will pay ; walk out with determination
when the sales-person starts to give you his song & dance.
Remember - if you are buying a new 2017 - you suffer an
extra year of depreciation as soon as you drive it off the lot.
Good luck.
John T.

On 12/15/17 9:38 AM, micky wrote:

I was browsing around my credit card's website and these are two
categories of options for customer service:

Card Services
Debit Card Services

Activate My Debit Card
Deactivate My Debit Card
Reissue My Existing Debit Card or ATM Card
Change My Debit Card PIN

CREDIT CARD SERVICES

Report a Lost or Stolen Card
Replace a Damaged Card
Dispute or Ask About a charge
Request Account Disclosures


Isn't it strange none of the choices for debit cards are choices for
credit cards, and not vice versa either.

I would assume that all 8 apply to both (although I don't know what
account disclosures are. Is that the terms and conditions?)


Just post your card number here and we'll help you out, easy-peasy...

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 15 Dec 2017 13:43:23 -0500,
wrote:

On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 09:38:09 -0500, micky
wrote:


I was browsing around my credit card's website and these are two
categories of options for customer service:

Card Services
Debit Card Services

Activate My Debit Card
Deactivate My Debit Card
Reissue My Existing Debit Card or ATM Card
Change My Debit Card PIN

CREDIT CARD SERVICES

Report a Lost or Stolen Card
Replace a Damaged Card
Dispute or Ask About a charge
Request Account Disclosures


Isn't it strange none of the choices for debit cards are choices for
credit cards, and not vice versa either.

I would assume that all 8 apply to both (although I don't know what
account disclosures are. Is that the terms and conditions?)

Debit cards are different than credit cards although some may combine
both on the same piece of plastic.
It is 2 separate operations at the bank

True, and they might have 2 departments of the bank in charge of
different sections of the same webpage. But some of the choices seem
applicable to both kinds.

Perhaps Reissue in the first part serves the purpose of both Report &
Replace in the second part.

But why can't you dispute a debit card charge or for a credit card,
change a pin or deactivate the card (when one has misplaced the card but
know it wasn't lost or stolen.)


Another interesting thing is that I have the credit card on autopay from
my checking account, and while I was looking at the credit card, there
was a balance and I thought I'd pay it early. But it said I have no
accounts set up to pay with. I hunted for wherever I set up the
autopay and couldn't find it. So I gave up. Autopay worked on
schedule just 3 or 4 days ago. We'll see what happens next month.

On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 1:07:56 PM UTC-6, wrote:

Changing the subject a bit, Ed. I have an appointment next Thursday
to drive the car I'm interested in buying. Wish me luck! But if I
don't come home with a new car then it's just not meant for me have
one. I've been steeling myself to not be disappointed if we can't
come to a deal.


Put on your poker face and walk in with a clear idea of
how-much you will pay ; walk out with determination
when the sales-person starts to give you his song & dance.
Remember - if you are buying a new 2017 - you suffer an
extra year of depreciation as soon as you drive it off the lot.
Good luck.
John T.

Yes, it's an untitled 2017 model and it's been on their lot for several
months. They probably won't agree with me but my way of thinking is
sell it to me or let it go to an auction lot in another state. It's
been many, many years since I was car buying so I've been studying the
model I want, what to pay and add-ons and fees to refuse. There will
be some cash to put down, too.

It depreciating an extra year won't bother me as I plan on keeping it
for a long, long time. The present vehicle I'm driving I've owned for
20 years so depreciation is no concern to me.

On 12/15/2017 6:39 PM, ItsJoanNotJoann wrote:
On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 1:07:56 PM UTC-6, wrote:

Changing the subject a bit, Ed. I have an appointment next Thursday
to drive the car I'm interested in buying. Wish me luck! But if I
don't come home with a new car then it's just not meant for me have
one. I've been steeling myself to not be disappointed if we can't
come to a deal.


Put on your poker face and walk in with a clear idea of
how-much you will pay ; walk out with determination
when the sales-person starts to give you his song & dance.
Remember - if you are buying a new 2017 - you suffer an
extra year of depreciation as soon as you drive it off the lot.
Good luck.
John T.

Yes, it's an untitled 2017 model and it's been on their lot for several
months. They probably won't agree with me but my way of thinking is
sell it to me or let it go to an auction lot in another state. It's
been many, many years since I was car buying so I've been studying the
model I want, what to pay and add-ons and fees to refuse. There will
be some cash to put down, too.

It depreciating an extra year won't bother me as I plan on keeping it
for a long, long time. The present vehicle I'm driving I've owned for
20 years so depreciation is no concern to me.


This is supposed to be a good time to buy a car. I hope you do well
negotiating. Car buying is a PITA. I bought one in October and I'm
thinking it could be my last, at least next to last. I put on less
miles now.

Good chance they will try to sell you a bunch of extras after you reach
a deal. Simonize finishes, extended warranty are two big ones. If you
are interested in them, offer 50%. They are very profitable and very
negotiable.

Changing the subject a bit, Ed. I have an appointment next Thursday
to drive the car I'm interested in buying. Wish me luck! But if I
don't come home with a new car then it's just not meant for me have
one. I've been steeling myself to not be disappointed if we can't
come to a deal.


Put on your poker face and walk in with a clear idea of
how-much you will pay ; walk out with determination
when the sales-person starts to give you his song & dance.
Remember - if you are buying a new 2017 - you suffer an
extra year of depreciation as soon as you drive it off the lot.
Good luck.
John T.

Yes, it's an untitled 2017 model and it's been on their lot for several
months. They probably won't agree with me but my way of thinking is
sell it to me or let it go to an auction lot in another state. It's
been many, many years since I was car buying so I've been studying the
model I want, what to pay and add-ons and fees to refuse. There will
be some cash to put down, too.
It depreciating an extra year won't bother me as I plan on keeping it
for a long, long time. The present vehicle I'm driving I've owned for
20 years so depreciation is no concern to me.


" Un-Titled " ... not something I'm familiar with ..
... if it's destined for auction - why do you want it ?
John T.

On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 5:52:49 PM UTC-6, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 12/15/2017 6:39 PM, ItsJoanNotJoann wrote:
On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 1:07:56 PM UTC-6, wrote:

Changing the subject a bit, Ed. I have an appointment next Thursday
to drive the car I'm interested in buying. Wish me luck! But if I
don't come home with a new car then it's just not meant for me have
one. I've been steeling myself to not be disappointed if we can't
come to a deal.

This is supposed to be a good time to buy a car. I hope you do well
negotiating. Car buying is a PITA. I bought one in October and I'm
thinking it could be my last, at least next to last. I put on less
miles now.

Since my Explorer is 22 years old and I've had it 20 years, yeah, I
figure this will be my last car. If not, I'll spring for a Lamborghini
next time. Hahahahaaaaaaaaa

Good chance they will try to sell you a bunch of extras after you reach
a deal. Simonize finishes, extended warranty are two big ones. If you
are interested in them, offer 50%. They are very profitable and very
negotiable.

Well, it's coming with a full warranty since it is brand new but no
telling what else they'll throw out to further deplete my funds. I'll
just have to transform into Ebenezer Scrooge right before their eyes
in the office.

:-))

On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 5:54:50 PM UTC-6, wrote:

Yes, it's an untitled 2017 model and it's been on their lot for several
months.

" Un-Titled " ... not something I'm familiar with ..
... if it's destined for auction - why do you want it ?
John T.


When a car is shipped from the factory to the dealership the title
is not issued until a buyer comes along.

As far as the auction goes, I'm just supposing since it's a 2017
model they want to move it to make way for the 2018 models. If
another dealer said "I'm looking for a 2017 white model with
moon roof" then they could ship it to them to sell instead of the
auction lot. If that was not the case then they would probably
ship to an auction site and then it would be sold in some other
area of the country.

If we can't come to terms there's two others just like it at
AutoTrader.com. Both are in other states but that would not
be a problem to go check either one out.

On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 18:56:14 -0500, wrote:


Changing the subject a bit, Ed. I have an appointment next Thursday
to drive the car I'm interested in buying. Wish me luck! But if I
don't come home with a new car then it's just not meant for me have
one. I've been steeling myself to not be disappointed if we can't
come to a deal.


Put on your poker face and walk in with a clear idea of
how-much you will pay ; walk out with determination
when the sales-person starts to give you his song & dance.
Remember - if you are buying a new 2017 - you suffer an
extra year of depreciation as soon as you drive it off the lot.
Good luck.
John T.

Yes, it's an untitled 2017 model and it's been on their lot for several
months. They probably won't agree with me but my way of thinking is
sell it to me or let it go to an auction lot in another state. It's
been many, many years since I was car buying so I've been studying the
model I want, what to pay and add-ons and fees to refuse. There will
be some cash to put down, too.
It depreciating an extra year won't bother me as I plan on keeping it
for a long, long time. The present vehicle I'm driving I've owned for
20 years so depreciation is no concern to me.


" Un-Titled " ... not something I'm familiar with ..
... if it's destined for auction - why do you want it ?
John T.

Untitled usually means it is still in the dealer's floor plan and
actually belongs to the manufacturer. I also would not automatically
assume they will send it off to auction when the 18s come out. They
may keep it on the lot for a while if the manufacturer does not want
it back.

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 15 Dec 2017 18:48:31 -0800 (PST),
ItsJoanNotJoann wrote:



Well, it's coming with a full warranty since it is brand new but no
telling what else they'll throw out to further deplete my funds. I'll
just have to transform into Ebenezer Scrooge right before their eyes
in the office.

If you can, get the heated license plate, both front and rear.

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 15 Dec 2017 18:55:56 -0800 (PST),
ItsJoanNotJoann wrote:

On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 5:54:50 PM UTC-6, wrote:

Yes, it's an untitled 2017 model and it's been on their lot for several
months.

" Un-Titled " ... not something I'm familiar with ..
... if it's destined for auction - why do you want it ?
John T.


When a car is shipped from the factory to the dealership the title
is not issued until a buyer comes along.

As far as the auction goes, I'm just supposing since it's a 2017
model they want to move it to make way for the 2018 models. If
another dealer said "I'm looking for a 2017 white model with
moon roof" then they could ship it to them to sell instead of the
auction lot. If that was not the case then they would probably
ship to an auction site and then it would be sold in some other
area of the country.

45 years ago, when I was in Mexico, I got the impression that left-over
cars when the model year changed were shipped there. I was thinking of
the manufacturer, not individual dealers, but if I'm right, maybe them
too.

If we can't come to terms there's two others just like it at
AutoTrader.com. Both are in other states but that would not
be a problem to go check either one out.

Yes, it's an untitled 2017 model and it's been on their lot
for several months.


" Un-Titled " ... not something I'm familiar with ..
John T.


When a car is shipped from the factory to the dealership the title
is not issued until a buyer comes along.


Is there some difference between a new car
and an un-titled car ?
.... I've only ever heard it called a new car..
or perhaps a demo which is treated as new
n every respect.
John T.

On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 09:35:52 -0500, wrote:



Yes, it's an untitled 2017 model and it's been on their lot
for several months.


" Un-Titled " ... not something I'm familiar with ..
John T.


When a car is shipped from the factory to the dealership the title
is not issued until a buyer comes along.


Is there some difference between a new car
and an un-titled car ?
... I've only ever heard it called a new car..
or perhaps a demo which is treated as new
n every respect.
John T.

We are simply talking about a car that is sold still only having the
manufacturer's certificate of origin in it. Dealers can slap a dealer
tag on a car like that and drive it for years. It can also just sit on
the lot until it is sold as long as the MFG will keep it on the floor
plan. It might also be shipped to another dealer who thinks he has a
better chance of selling it. My wife bought a 2009 Lincoln MKX after
the 2011s were sitting on the floor (late 10). It was never titled and
we got a heluva deal on it. The warranty clock did not start running
until we titled it. We still have it so the model year is not really
that important anymore. Other factors are more important than "year"
on a car that old.

On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 9:03:21 PM UTC-6, micky wrote:

If you can, get the heated license plate, both front and rear.


That is not offered on this model and if it was I would not pay extra
for it and sounds a bit silly to me. Plus my state does not require
a front license plate; they only issue one plate.

On Saturday, December 16, 2017 at 8:34:29 AM UTC-6, wrote:

Is there some difference between a new car
and an un-titled car ?
... I've only ever heard it called a new car..
or perhaps a demo which is treated as new
n every respect.
John T.


Not that I know of.

On Saturday, December 16, 2017 at 12:19:25 PM UTC-6, wrote:

We are simply talking about a car that is sold still only having the
manufacturer's certificate of origin in it. Dealers can slap a dealer
tag on a car like that and drive it for years. It can also just sit on
the lot until it is sold as long as the MFG will keep it on the floor
plan. It might also be shipped to another dealer who thinks he has a
better chance of selling it. My wife bought a 2009 Lincoln MKX after
the 2011s were sitting on the floor (late 10). It was never titled and
we got a heluva deal on it. The warranty clock did not start running
until we titled it. We still have it so the model year is not really
that important anymore. Other factors are more important than "year"
on a car that old.


BINGO!

I'm going to be awfully nosey. How much did they come off the asking
price?

Yes, it's an untitled 2017 model and it's been on their lot
for several months.


" Un-Titled " ... not something I'm familiar with ..
John T.


When a car is shipped from the factory to the dealership the title
is not issued until a buyer comes along.


Is there some difference between a new car
and an un-titled car ?
... I've only ever heard it called a new car..
or perhaps a demo which is treated as new
n every respect.
John T.

We are simply talking about a car that is sold still only having the
manufacturer's certificate of origin in it. Dealers can slap a dealer
tag on a car like that and drive it for years. It can also just sit on
the lot until it is sold as long as the MFG will keep it on the floor
plan. It might also be shipped to another dealer who thinks he has a
better chance of selling it. My wife bought a 2009 Lincoln MKX after
the 2011s were sitting on the floor (late 10). It was never titled and
we got a heluva deal on it. The warranty clock did not start running
until we titled it. We still have it so the model year is not really
that important anymore. Other factors are more important than "year"
on a car that old.


It's a new car or a used car - why complicate things
with " titled " ... ? is what I'm saying. Dunno.
Where I live - a new car will not sit on the lot for years - ever.
On a very rare occasion you might see a new car that is
2-model-years-old ... it will be drastically discounted.
My car crappy Kia Rondo was purchased literally off the
showroom floor - but it was 1 model-year-old - the discount was
about $ 3,000. off list price. I figured there was not much wiggle
room - but I made an offer that included 4 winter tires on rims -
and I declined every extra -
: rust proofing
: extended warranty
: floor mats
: wifi
etc etc
Recent Hyundai adverts seem to support that ~ 3 grand
is the Canadian discount on last years models.
John T.

On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 13:30:54 -0800 (PST), ItsJoanNotJoann
wrote:

On Saturday, December 16, 2017 at 12:19:25 PM UTC-6, wrote:

We are simply talking about a car that is sold still only having the
manufacturer's certificate of origin in it. Dealers can slap a dealer
tag on a car like that and drive it for years. It can also just sit on
the lot until it is sold as long as the MFG will keep it on the floor
plan. It might also be shipped to another dealer who thinks he has a
better chance of selling it. My wife bought a 2009 Lincoln MKX after
the 2011s were sitting on the floor (late 10). It was never titled and
we got a heluva deal on it. The warranty clock did not start running
until we titled it. We still have it so the model year is not really
that important anymore. Other factors are more important than "year"
on a car that old.


BINGO!

I'm going to be awfully nosey. How much did they come off the asking
price?

We were out the door for $26,000 and a F150 (clunker) for a $53,000
(sticker) Lincoln.

On Saturday, December 16, 2017 at 5:06:54 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Yes, it's an untitled 2017 model and it's been on their lot
for several months.


" Un-Titled " ... not something I'm familiar with ..
John T.


When a car is shipped from the factory to the dealership the title
is not issued until a buyer comes along.


Is there some difference between a new car
and an un-titled car ?
... I've only ever heard it called a new car..
or perhaps a demo which is treated as new
n every respect.
John T.

We are simply talking about a car that is sold still only having the
manufacturer's certificate of origin in it. Dealers can slap a dealer
tag on a car like that and drive it for years. It can also just sit on
the lot until it is sold as long as the MFG will keep it on the floor
plan. It might also be shipped to another dealer who thinks he has a
better chance of selling it. My wife bought a 2009 Lincoln MKX after
the 2011s were sitting on the floor (late 10). It was never titled and
we got a heluva deal on it. The warranty clock did not start running
until we titled it. We still have it so the model year is not really
that important anymore. Other factors are more important than "year"
on a car that old.


It's a new car or a used car - why complicate things
with " titled " ... ? is what I'm saying. Dunno.

My December reply stated it is a 2017 model.

Where I live - a new car will not sit on the lot for years - ever.
On a very rare occasion you might see a new car that is
2-model-years-old ... it will be drastically discounted.

It's not been sitting on their lot for years. It's been on their
lot since summer.

My car crappy Kia Rondo was purchased literally off the
showroom floor - but it was 1 model-year-old - the discount was
about $ 3,000. off list price. I figured there was not much wiggle
room - but I made an offer that included 4 winter tires on rims -
and I declined every extra -
: rust proofing
: extended warranty
: floor mats
: wifi
etc etc
Recent Hyundai adverts seem to support that ~ 3 grand
is the Canadian discount on last years models.
John T.

Well, I'm also looking at the same car in Kansas with 5600 miles
on it. It has the EXACT SAME features as this untitled car I will
be test driving on Thursday; same engine, same size wheels, same
everything. The only difference is the color and it's listed for
$41,399; the one I will be gazing at has 11 miles on it and it's
listed for $53,800. No way, no how, will I pay $53,800.

There's two or three others on AutoTrader that have caught my eye
and I've looked at the Carfax report for all of them.

On Saturday, December 16, 2017 at 7:24:20 PM UTC-6, wrote:

On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 13:30:54 -0800 (PST), ItsJoanNotJoann
wrote:

I'm going to be awfully nosey. How much did they come off the asking
price?

We were out the door for $26,000 and a F150 (clunker) for a $53,000
(sticker) Lincoln.

Sounds like you did exceptionally well on that purchase!

On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 18:28:43 -0800 (PST), ItsJoanNotJoann
wrote:

On Saturday, December 16, 2017 at 7:24:20 PM UTC-6, wrote:

On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 13:30:54 -0800 (PST), ItsJoanNotJoann
wrote:

I'm going to be awfully nosey. How much did they come off the asking
price?

We were out the door for $26,000 and a F150 (clunker) for a $53,000
(sticker) Lincoln.

Sounds like you did exceptionally well on that purchase!

Having money to spend in a depression is always going to be a force
multiplier.

Well, I'm also looking at the same car in Kansas with 5600 miles
on it. It has the EXACT SAME features as this untitled car I will
be test driving on Thursday; same engine, same size wheels, same
everything. The only difference is the color and it's listed for
$41,399; the one I will be gazing at has 11 miles on it and it's
listed for $53,800. No way, no how, will I pay $53,800.
There's two or three others on AutoTrader that have caught my eye
and I've looked at the Carfax report for all of them.


Look carefully at all the history of a used car - make sure that it
isn't an insurance write-off or previous daily rental.
Here in Canada, the unscrupulous dealers will hide the cars history
by border-crossing - out-of-province or out-of-country is a red
flag.
The discount off those new 50 grand vehicles will be much more than
my 20 grand econo hatchback. I've heard of 10 grand discounts on
fancy pick-up trucks - to clear out last model year for brand new
ones or demo units.
John T.

On Sunday, December 17, 2017 at 8:52:06 AM UTC-6, wrote:

Well, I'm also looking at the same car in Kansas with 5600 miles
on it. It has the EXACT SAME features as this untitled car I will
be test driving on Thursday; same engine, same size wheels, same
everything. The only difference is the color and it's listed for
$41,399; the one I will be gazing at has 11 miles on it and it's
listed for $53,800. No way, no how, will I pay $53,800.
There's two or three others on AutoTrader that have caught my eye
and I've looked at the Carfax report for all of them.


Look carefully at all the history of a used car - make sure that it
isn't an insurance write-off or previous daily rental.
Here in Canada, the unscrupulous dealers will hide the cars history
by border-crossing - out-of-province or out-of-country is a red
flag.

Nope. I've already looked at the Carfax reports of each of the cars
offered at AutoTrader. The car I'm interested in is made right here
in the U.S.A.

The discount off those new 50 grand vehicles will be much more than
my 20 grand econo hatchback. I've heard of 10 grand discounts on
fancy pick-up trucks - to clear out last model year for brand new
ones or demo units.
John T.

I'm hoping they'll throw a 10 grand deal at me, more would be welcomed
of course. I'm really hoping the dealership I'm heading to that's about
50 miles from me will be receptive. That will be easier than me traveling
out of state. Wish me luck!

:-)