My neighbor, who is quite a jerk**, is having trouble with his Carrier
oil furnace. He says the furnace goes on and off but the fan stays on
all the time. He says the thermostat is in the auto position, not On.

Looking at the wiring diagram, it seems clear to me that the fan is
controlled by the G and Y terminals on the control box, which is
controlled by the G and Y terminals on the thermostat. Which are
probably connected by green and yellow wires. And maybe (unlikely) the
thermostat is bad, or stray wires from the G or Y are touching the other
terminal. And at the very least disconnecting one of those two wires
will stop the fan or not, and give essential debugging information .
(And reconnnecting it right after, because the fan is needed when the
burner is burning. I'm talking about the warm air house circulation
fan, not the fan that blows air into the oil burner.)

Also, and this I'm less sure of, the fan can stay on for months without
stopping and without burning out without shortening its life much. So
being on 24/day for a few days didn't hurt the fan, but might have cost
him a little money.

I don't need any help on this afaik,since I've spent plenty of time on
an identical furnace.... unless I said something incorrect above. Did
I?


**If I hadnt' had bad experiences with him, I'd print out the wiring
diagrams of the furnace etc. and take it with me tomorrow evening, but
he's been such a pain. He never identifies himself when he calls. Last
winter when I went over and couldn't fix it, I asked him when he got it
fixed to find out what the problem was and let me know. He didn't do
that. I asked him to call me when the paid repairman is there. He
didn't do that.

But the prize was when he wanted an oil pump, and I have spare parts for
many things because when a neighbor got a new furnace, I got the old
burner. So it was the day of the funeral of one of my best friends (and
he knew that), my first good friend to die, under depressing
circumstances, and after I got home from the funeral, instead of going
to sleep like I wanted to, I took the time to take the oil pump out of
the burner, clean up the dripping oil, wrap it up and put it on the
porch, as I told him the night before I would do. He never came to
pick it up, he never called to tell me I could put it back in the house,
he never called at all, and he never thanked me. Nothin'.

Since then I've brushed him off a couple times, and I wouldn't even go
tomorrow except I'm curious and he lives less than 100 yards away.

I'm especially curious because he told me that pros told him the control
box needed replacing. (He called me 3 or 4 days ago to get my spare
control box but a) I used it already, b) he told me the problem and I
told him the control box has nothing to do with it.) He gave me the
name of the company that told him that and their webpage says they've
been in business since 1983. That's a long time to not understand what
controls the fan. His business address seems to be his home, and he
has a biggg home, 2 2/2's or 3 1/2 high, with a biggg swimming pool, and
a tennis court, a 3-acre lot backed by acres of woods, neatly trimmed
bushes and neatly mown lawn, in an expensive suburban n'hood not so far
away. He couldn't screw up that often, so this must be some shlock
employee giving out bad advice.

On Sun, 10 Dec 2017 19:27:44 -0500, micky
wrote:

My neighbor, who is quite a jerk**, is having trouble with his Carrier
oil furnace. He says the furnace goes on and off but the fan stays on
all the time. He says the thermostat is in the auto position, not On.

Looking at the wiring diagram, it seems clear to me that the fan is
controlled by the G and Y terminals on the control box, which is
controlled by the G and Y terminals on the thermostat. Which are
probably connected by green and yellow wires. And maybe (unlikely) the
thermostat is bad, or stray wires from the G or Y are touching the other
terminal. And at the very least disconnecting one of those two wires
will stop the fan or not, and give essential debugging information .
(And reconnnecting it right after, because the fan is needed when the
burner is burning. I'm talking about the warm air house circulation
fan, not the fan that blows air into the oil burner.)

Also, and this I'm less sure of, the fan can stay on for months without
stopping and without burning out without shortening its life much. So
being on 24/day for a few days didn't hurt the fan, but might have cost
him a little money.

I don't need any help on this afaik,since I've spent plenty of time on
an identical furnace.... unless I said something incorrect above. Did
I?


**If I hadnt' had bad experiences with him, I'd print out the wiring
diagrams of the furnace etc. and take it with me tomorrow evening, but
he's been such a pain. He never identifies himself when he calls. Last
winter when I went over and couldn't fix it, I asked him when he got it
fixed to find out what the problem was and let me know. He didn't do
that. I asked him to call me when the paid repairman is there. He
didn't do that.

But the prize was when he wanted an oil pump, and I have spare parts for
many things because when a neighbor got a new furnace, I got the old
burner. So it was the day of the funeral of one of my best friends (and
he knew that), my first good friend to die, under depressing
circumstances, and after I got home from the funeral, instead of going
to sleep like I wanted to, I took the time to take the oil pump out of
the burner, clean up the dripping oil, wrap it up and put it on the
porch, as I told him the night before I would do. He never came to
pick it up, he never called to tell me I could put it back in the house,
he never called at all, and he never thanked me. Nothin'.

Since then I've brushed him off a couple times, and I wouldn't even go
tomorrow except I'm curious and he lives less than 100 yards away.

I'm especially curious because he told me that pros told him the control
box needed replacing. (He called me 3 or 4 days ago to get my spare
control box but a) I used it already, b) he told me the problem and I
told him the control box has nothing to do with it.) He gave me the
name of the company that told him that and their webpage says they've
been in business since 1983. That's a long time to not understand what
controls the fan. His business address seems to be his home, and he
has a biggg home, 2 2/2's or 3 1/2 high, with a biggg swimming pool, and
a tennis court, a 3-acre lot backed by acres of woods, neatly trimmed
bushes and neatly mown lawn, in an expensive suburban n'hood not so far
away. He couldn't screw up that often, so this must be some shlock
employee giving out bad advice.


You really need to find out more about how this is wired. Some old
"heat only" systems only used 2 wires and the fan control was in the
furnace.

replying to micky, Iggy wrote:
Not that I'm even a novice, but is there a separate board or controller for
this unit's blower fan? I haven't seen such a thing before. If not, then I'd
have to agree with the HVAC guy and/or his employee. Or, do you think he
screwed with it or that even the HVAC Company set it up to swindle him during
a previous "friendly" service call? Or, is this just really old wiring that
has cracked or unfurled insulation (really-really old)?

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...t-1152781-.htm

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 11 Dec 2017 02:44:02 GMT, Iggy
m wrote:

replying to micky, Iggy wrote:
Not that I'm even a novice, but is there a separate board or controller for
this unit's blower fan?

There are one two connection screws on the outside edge of the board for
the furnace control box. But they aren just there for convenience and
aren't connected to anything in the control box.

I haven't seen such a thing before. If not, then I'd
have to agree with the HVAC guy and/or his employee. Or, do you think he
screwed with it or that even the HVAC Company set it up to swindle him during
a previous "friendly" service call?

I don't think so, but I think he might be in over his head. Maybe a guy
who went along on calls with someone who knew what he was doing, and is
doing this outside of working hours, but still using the name of his
employer.

When I look up the company name it says HVAC/R (what's R? Oh,
refrigeration) and seems to emphasize the control aspect of it, which of
course is just what my friend needs. But when I put the address of the
business in google maps, it deduces that there is a business there and
in the sidebar, it says Dry Wall Contractor. That's a far cry from what
he needs.

The company seems to do a variety of things (which is why he has such a
nice house): Infrastructure Improvements,
Operations & Maintenance (O&M)
Construction Management
Dedicated Project Managerment.


Or, is this just really old wiring that
has cracked or unfurled insulation (really-really old)?

Probably not. My insulation isn't cracked and his wasnt' when I looked
at it last year. But your question reminds me that they didn't use
stranded wire, of course. So I don't think it's a stray wire. And the
two screws are over an inch from each other.

So it's more likely it's the auto/on switch on the thermostat. If it
were my house, I'd disassemble the thermostat and try to fix the switch,
and if that didn't work, I'd put in an external SPDT switch, connected
by a short 3-conductor wire. I have lots of switches, but I'm not
willing to do all that for him, and I'll let him buy a new thermostat.
But I don't know if he can put it in, as simple as it is. I don't like
dealing with people who can't do anything.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 10 Dec 2017 20:48:30 -0500,
wrote:

On Sun, 10 Dec 2017 19:27:44 -0500, micky
wrote:

....

Since then I've brushed him off a couple times, and I wouldn't even go
tomorrow except I'm curious and he lives less than 100 yards away.

I'm especially curious because he told me that pros told him the control
box needed replacing. (He called me 3 or 4 days ago to get my spare
control box but a) I used it already, b) he told me the problem and I
told him the control box has nothing to do with it.) He gave me the
name of the company that told him that and their webpage says they've
been in business since 1983. That's a long time to not understand what
controls the fan. His business address seems to be his home, and he
has a biggg home, 2 2/2's or 3 1/2 high, with a biggg swimming pool, and
a tennis court, a 3-acre lot backed by acres of woods, neatly trimmed
bushes and neatly mown lawn, in an expensive suburban n'hood not so far
away. He couldn't screw up that often, so this must be some shlock
employee giving out bad advice.


You really need to find out more about how this is wired. Some old
"heat only" systems only used 2 wires and the fan control was in the
furnace.

It's wired like mine, heat and AC. The whole house is like mine, or the
mirror image of mine.

I'll try to let you all know what it turned out to be.

Thanks to both of you.

On Sunday, December 10, 2017 at 7:27:50 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
My neighbor, who is quite a jerk**, is having trouble with his Carrier
oil furnace. He says the furnace goes on and off but the fan stays on
all the time. He says the thermostat is in the auto position, not On.

Looking at the wiring diagram, it seems clear to me that the fan is
controlled by the G and Y terminals on the control box, which is
controlled by the G and Y terminals on the thermostat. Which are
probably connected by green and yellow wires. And maybe (unlikely) the
thermostat is bad, or stray wires from the G or Y are touching the other
terminal. And at the very least disconnecting one of those two wires
will stop the fan or not, and give essential debugging information .
(And reconnnecting it right after, because the fan is needed when the
burner is burning. I'm talking about the warm air house circulation
fan, not the fan that blows air into the oil burner.)

Also, and this I'm less sure of, the fan can stay on for months without
stopping and without burning out without shortening its life much. So
being on 24/day for a few days didn't hurt the fan, but might have cost
him a little money.

I don't need any help on this afaik,since I've spent plenty of time on
an identical furnace.... unless I said something incorrect above. Did
I?


**If I hadnt' had bad experiences with him, I'd print out the wiring
diagrams of the furnace etc. and take it with me tomorrow evening, but
he's been such a pain.

How bizarre. The guy is an AH, you're going to go over there anyway,
but because he's an AH you're not going to take wiring diagrams with you?



He never identifies himself when he calls. Last
winter when I went over and couldn't fix it, I asked him when he got it
fixed to find out what the problem was and let me know. He didn't do
that. I asked him to call me when the paid repairman is there. He
didn't do that.

But the prize was when he wanted an oil pump, and I have spare parts for
many things because when a neighbor got a new furnace, I got the old
burner. So it was the day of the funeral of one of my best friends (and
he knew that), my first good friend to die, under depressing
circumstances, and after I got home from the funeral, instead of going
to sleep like I wanted to, I took the time to take the oil pump out of
the burner, clean up the dripping oil, wrap it up and put it on the
porch, as I told him the night before I would do. He never came to
pick it up, he never called to tell me I could put it back in the house,
he never called at all, and he never thanked me. Nothin'.

Since then I've brushed him off a couple times, and I wouldn't even go
tomorrow except I'm curious and he lives less than 100 yards away.

I'm especially curious because he told me that pros told him the control
box needed replacing. (He called me 3 or 4 days ago to get my spare
control box but a) I used it already, b) he told me the problem and I
told him the control box has nothing to do with it.) He gave me the
name of the company that told him that and their webpage says they've
been in business since 1983. That's a long time to not understand what
controls the fan. His business address seems to be his home, and he
has a biggg home, 2 2/2's or 3 1/2 high, with a biggg swimming pool, and
a tennis court, a 3-acre lot backed by acres of woods, neatly trimmed
bushes and neatly mown lawn, in an expensive suburban n'hood not so far
away. He couldn't screw up that often, so this must be some shlock
employee giving out bad advice.

I see nothing but trouble here. I'd just stay away. The blower could
very well be stuck on because of a bad controller, which was what was
diagnosed. Or like Gfre said,
very old furnaces just used thermostatic switches in the furnace plenum
to turn the blower on and off.

replying to micky, Iggy wrote:
I found a couple of videos that might actually double-check what you're doing
and should be helpful in getting this guy out of your life. The 1st is about
the Blower Running and gives great information on the Thermostat's fitness and
then also the wiring and board causes and workarounds...Blower Fan Motor Won't
Shut off!- STEP by STEP Troubleshooting!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxRB4MVFOuo

The 2nd is about the different generations of Fan Limiter switches. If you
have the first of biggest type that has the silver disk, there's a white
button or knob on the bottom left that needs to be pulled or set to the
outward position for Auto Fan operation or the Fan Limiter needs replacement
if the Auto setting doesn't kill the fan...Why is my fan running all the time
with no heat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIWECzCI-Wg

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...t-1152781-.htm

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 11 Dec 2017 02:43:28 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, December 10, 2017 at 7:27:50 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
My neighbor, who is quite a jerk**, is having trouble with his Carrier
oil furnace. He says the furnace goes on and off but the fan stays on
all the time. He says the thermostat is in the auto position, not On.

Looking at the wiring diagram, it seems clear to me that the fan is
controlled by the G and Y terminals on the control box, which is
controlled by the G and Y terminals on the thermostat. Which are
probably connected by green and yellow wires. And maybe (unlikely) the
thermostat is bad, or stray wires from the G or Y are touching the other
terminal. And at the very least disconnecting one of those two wires
will stop the fan or not, and give essential debugging information .
(And reconnnecting it right after, because the fan is needed when the
burner is burning. I'm talking about the warm air house circulation
fan, not the fan that blows air into the oil burner.)

Also, and this I'm less sure of, the fan can stay on for months without
stopping and without burning out without shortening its life much. So
being on 24/day for a few days didn't hurt the fan, but might have cost
him a little money.

I don't need any help on this afaik,since I've spent plenty of time on
an identical furnace.... unless I said something incorrect above. Did
I?


**If I hadnt' had bad experiences with him, I'd print out the wiring
diagrams of the furnace etc. and take it with me tomorrow evening, but
he's been such a pain.

How bizarre. The guy is an AH, you're going to go over there anyway,

Curiosity has me.

but because he's an AH you're not going to take wiring diagrams with you?

I wasn't, but my memory for stuff like that is bad, and the page was
right in front of me, so I printed it.


He never identifies himself when he calls. Last
winter when I went over and couldn't fix it, I asked him when he got it
fixed to find out what the problem was and let me know. He didn't do
that. I asked him to call me when the paid repairman is there. He
didn't do that.

But the prize was when he wanted an oil pump, and I have spare parts for
many things because when a neighbor got a new furnace, I got the old
burner. So it was the day of the funeral of one of my best friends (and
he knew that), my first good friend to die, under depressing
circumstances, and after I got home from the funeral, instead of going
to sleep like I wanted to, I took the time to take the oil pump out of
the burner, clean up the dripping oil, wrap it up and put it on the
porch, as I told him the night before I would do. He never came to
pick it up, he never called to tell me I could put it back in the house,
he never called at all, and he never thanked me. Nothin'.

Since then I've brushed him off a couple times, and I wouldn't even go
tomorrow except I'm curious and he lives less than 100 yards away.

I'm especially curious because he told me that pros told him the control
box needed replacing. (He called me 3 or 4 days ago to get my spare
control box but a) I used it already, b) he told me the problem and I
told him the control box has nothing to do with it.) He gave me the
name of the company that told him that and their webpage says they've
been in business since 1983. That's a long time to not understand what
controls the fan. His business address seems to be his home, and he
has a biggg home, 2 2/2's or 3 1/2 high, with a biggg swimming pool, and
a tennis court, a 3-acre lot backed by acres of woods, neatly trimmed
bushes and neatly mown lawn, in an expensive suburban n'hood not so far
away. He couldn't screw up that often, so this must be some shlock
employee giving out bad advice.

I see nothing but trouble here. I'd just stay away. The blower could
very well be stuck on because of a bad controller, which was what was
diagnosed.

There is no controller, only a relay. Disconnecting the relay coil
would be the next step. Its the black and blue wires, connected to the
G and C terminals respectively.

No, he was told the problem was what he called when he talked to me "the
grey box" (which I then called the control box). Or at least that's
what he wanted to get from me. I once found my exact box on the web and
I think it was under 100, but a furnace repair company would probably
charge 200 or more. If they had actually told him it was the relay, $45
plus 50 labor, I think he would have done it. It's the 2 hundred
dollars plus what, 50 - 200 labor** that's making him balk. If I
remember, I'll ask him how much they wanted.


The relay otoh would cost $20 as a relay and maybe 45 as a furnace part
and I think the fan relay enclosure is right on the face of the furnace,
chest high and easy to get to, but I don't have the exact part and I'm
not going to do it.

I know for sure he said they said it was the control box, and I know for
sure, that's not the problem.

**I wish there was a webpage that rated furnace repairs, like there is
for auto repairs.

Or like Gfre said,
very old furnaces just used thermostatic switches in the furnace plenum
to turn the blower on and off.

Not in the plenum, in the thermostat.

Or like Gfre said,
very old furnaces just used thermostatic switches in the furnace plenum
to turn the blower on and off.

Not in the plenum, in the thermostat.

no in the furnace .

the air handler blower in my furnace can be turned on 2 different ways.
1) by the wires in the thermostat which you already discussed
2) by a bi metallic switch in the furnace

the cycle goes like this
1) thermostat calls for heat
this turns on the burner AND the blower
2) furnace heats up the house
3) thermostat stops calling for heat
this switches off the burner and the blower BUT.....
4) the blower keeps running because the bi metallic switch in the furnace is still warm

this keeps the blower running until the heat in the furnace has been removed.

the bi metallic switch in my case also is the hi limit and will turn off the burner if the temp in the furnace gets too high.

there are two tabs that can be adjusted

If the blower tab is adjusted too low, the blower will never turn off.


it is something like this

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Honeywell...C0qsQ AvD_BwE



mark

On Monday, December 11, 2017 at 10:17:13 AM UTC-5, wrote:

Or like Gfre said,
very old furnaces just used thermostatic switches in the furnace plenum
to turn the blower on and off.

Not in the plenum, in the thermostat.

no in the furnace .

the air handler blower in my furnace can be turned on 2 different ways.
1) by the wires in the thermostat which you already discussed
2) by a bi metallic switch in the furnace

the cycle goes like this
1) thermostat calls for heat
this turns on the burner AND the blower
2) furnace heats up the house
3) thermostat stops calling for heat
this switches off the burner and the blower BUT.....
4) the blower keeps running because the bi metallic switch in the furnace is still warm

this keeps the blower running until the heat in the furnace has been removed.

the bi metallic switch in my case also is the hi limit and will turn off the burner if the temp in the furnace gets too high.

there are two tabs that can be adjusted

If the blower tab is adjusted too low, the blower will never turn off.


it is something like this

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Honeywell...C0qsQ AvD_BwE



mark

and this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg0nK4QLpZo

mark

On Monday, December 11, 2017 at 9:22:17 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 11 Dec 2017 02:43:28 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, December 10, 2017 at 7:27:50 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
My neighbor, who is quite a jerk**, is having trouble with his Carrier
oil furnace. He says the furnace goes on and off but the fan stays on
all the time. He says the thermostat is in the auto position, not On.

Looking at the wiring diagram, it seems clear to me that the fan is
controlled by the G and Y terminals on the control box, which is
controlled by the G and Y terminals on the thermostat. Which are
probably connected by green and yellow wires. And maybe (unlikely) the
thermostat is bad, or stray wires from the G or Y are touching the other
terminal. And at the very least disconnecting one of those two wires
will stop the fan or not, and give essential debugging information .
(And reconnnecting it right after, because the fan is needed when the
burner is burning. I'm talking about the warm air house circulation
fan, not the fan that blows air into the oil burner.)

Also, and this I'm less sure of, the fan can stay on for months without
stopping and without burning out without shortening its life much. So
being on 24/day for a few days didn't hurt the fan, but might have cost
him a little money.

I don't need any help on this afaik,since I've spent plenty of time on
an identical furnace.... unless I said something incorrect above. Did
I?


**If I hadnt' had bad experiences with him, I'd print out the wiring
diagrams of the furnace etc. and take it with me tomorrow evening, but
he's been such a pain.

How bizarre. The guy is an AH, you're going to go over there anyway,

Curiosity has me.

but because he's an AH you're not going to take wiring diagrams with you?

I wasn't, but my memory for stuff like that is bad, and the page was
right in front of me, so I printed it.


He never identifies himself when he calls. Last
winter when I went over and couldn't fix it, I asked him when he got it
fixed to find out what the problem was and let me know. He didn't do
that. I asked him to call me when the paid repairman is there. He
didn't do that.

But the prize was when he wanted an oil pump, and I have spare parts for
many things because when a neighbor got a new furnace, I got the old
burner. So it was the day of the funeral of one of my best friends (and
he knew that), my first good friend to die, under depressing
circumstances, and after I got home from the funeral, instead of going
to sleep like I wanted to, I took the time to take the oil pump out of
the burner, clean up the dripping oil, wrap it up and put it on the
porch, as I told him the night before I would do. He never came to
pick it up, he never called to tell me I could put it back in the house,
he never called at all, and he never thanked me. Nothin'.

Since then I've brushed him off a couple times, and I wouldn't even go
tomorrow except I'm curious and he lives less than 100 yards away.

I'm especially curious because he told me that pros told him the control
box needed replacing. (He called me 3 or 4 days ago to get my spare
control box but a) I used it already, b) he told me the problem and I
told him the control box has nothing to do with it.) He gave me the
name of the company that told him that and their webpage says they've
been in business since 1983. That's a long time to not understand what
controls the fan. His business address seems to be his home, and he
has a biggg home, 2 2/2's or 3 1/2 high, with a biggg swimming pool, and
a tennis court, a 3-acre lot backed by acres of woods, neatly trimmed
bushes and neatly mown lawn, in an expensive suburban n'hood not so far
away. He couldn't screw up that often, so this must be some shlock
employee giving out bad advice.

I see nothing but trouble here. I'd just stay away. The blower could
very well be stuck on because of a bad controller, which was what was
diagnosed.

There is no controller, only a relay. Disconnecting the relay coil
would be the next step. Its the black and blue wires, connected to the
G and C terminals respectively.

No, he was told the problem was what he called when he talked to me "the
grey box" (which I then called the control box). Or at least that's
what he wanted to get from me. I once found my exact box on the web and
I think it was under 100, but a furnace repair company would probably
charge 200 or more. If they had actually told him it was the relay, $45
plus 50 labor, I think he would have done it. It's the 2 hundred
dollars plus what, 50 - 200 labor** that's making him balk. If I
remember, I'll ask him how much they wanted.


The relay otoh would cost $20 as a relay and maybe 45 as a furnace part
and I think the fan relay enclosure is right on the face of the furnace,
chest high and easy to get to, but I don't have the exact part and I'm
not going to do it.

I know for sure he said they said it was the control box, and I know for
sure, that's not the problem.

**I wish there was a webpage that rated furnace repairs, like there is
for auto repairs.

Or like Gfre said,
very old furnaces just used thermostatic switches in the furnace plenum
to turn the blower on and off.

Not in the plenum, in the thermostat.

No, like Gfre said in the plenum. Even in newer installs where there is
a fan wire, that wire doesn't turn the fan on and off when the furnace
fires up. The furnace does that itself. The fan switch on the thermostat
is there only to allow you to turn the fan on that way as an additional
way. It's extremely unlikely the thermostat switch would fail in the
closed position. Short in the wiring is possible, but unlikely. My bet
would be a controller problem at the furnace, which is what the repair
service diagnosed.

Also, not that it matters, you said that it doesn't cost too much to
run the blower full time. That's true if it's one of the new ECM motors,
they do use less electricity because they are more efficient and because
they run it at very low speed to circulate the air. But if it's an
older furnace with a PSC motor, it will use a lot more because it's not
as efficient and it will run faster than one of the new ones because
it thinks it's running for heat, not the slow speed typical to just
recirculate.

On Monday, December 11, 2017 at 10:17:13 AM UTC-5, wrote:

Or like Gfre said,
very old furnaces just used thermostatic switches in the furnace plenum
to turn the blower on and off.

Not in the plenum, in the thermostat.

no in the furnace .

the air handler blower in my furnace can be turned on 2 different ways.
1) by the wires in the thermostat which you already discussed
2) by a bi metallic switch in the furnace

the cycle goes like this
1) thermostat calls for heat
this turns on the burner AND the blower
2) furnace heats up the house
3) thermostat stops calling for heat
this switches off the burner and the blower BUT.....
4) the blower keeps running because the bi metallic switch in the furnace is still warm

this keeps the blower running until the heat in the furnace has been removed.

the bi metallic switch in my case also is the hi limit and will turn off the burner if the temp in the furnace gets too high.

there are two tabs that can be adjusted

If the blower tab is adjusted too low, the blower will never turn off.



Agree with you on the overall process, with one exception. The furnaces
like this that I have seen, the thermostat doesn't turn on the blower
and the fan. It only turns on the burner. The temp switch that you
describe then turns on the blower after the temp in the plenum has
risen to a set point, which takes a min or two from burner start.

And if he has one of these, it could be as simple as the plenum
switch needs adjusting. Or it could be the tech is telling the truth
and it's a furnace with a controller that's kaput. Given that Micky
says the neighbor is an AH, I wouldn't get involved as all I see is
trouble.

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 11 Dec 2017 07:28:47 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, December 11, 2017 at 9:22:17 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 11 Dec 2017 02:43:28 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, December 10, 2017 at 7:27:50 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
My neighbor, who is quite a jerk**, is having trouble with his Carrier
oil furnace. He says the furnace goes on and off but the fan stays on
all the time. He says the thermostat is in the auto position, not On.

Looking at the wiring diagram, it seems clear to me that the fan is
controlled by the G and Y terminals on the control box, which is
controlled by the G and Y terminals on the thermostat. Which are
probably connected by green and yellow wires. And maybe (unlikely) the
thermostat is bad, or stray wires from the G or Y are touching the other
terminal. And at the very least disconnecting one of those two wires
will stop the fan or not, and give essential debugging information .
(And reconnnecting it right after, because the fan is needed when the
burner is burning. I'm talking about the warm air house circulation
fan, not the fan that blows air into the oil burner.)

Also, and this I'm less sure of, the fan can stay on for months without
stopping and without burning out without shortening its life much. So
being on 24/day for a few days didn't hurt the fan, but might have cost
him a little money.

I don't need any help on this afaik,since I've spent plenty of time on
an identical furnace.... unless I said something incorrect above. Did
I?


**If I hadnt' had bad experiences with him, I'd print out the wiring
diagrams of the furnace etc. and take it with me tomorrow evening, but
he's been such a pain.

How bizarre. The guy is an AH, you're going to go over there anyway,

Curiosity has me.

but because he's an AH you're not going to take wiring diagrams with you?

I wasn't, but my memory for stuff like that is bad, and the page was
right in front of me, so I printed it.


He never identifies himself when he calls. Last
winter when I went over and couldn't fix it, I asked him when he got it
fixed to find out what the problem was and let me know. He didn't do
that. I asked him to call me when the paid repairman is there. He
didn't do that.

But the prize was when he wanted an oil pump, and I have spare parts for
many things because when a neighbor got a new furnace, I got the old
burner. So it was the day of the funeral of one of my best friends (and
he knew that), my first good friend to die, under depressing
circumstances, and after I got home from the funeral, instead of going
to sleep like I wanted to, I took the time to take the oil pump out of
the burner, clean up the dripping oil, wrap it up and put it on the
porch, as I told him the night before I would do. He never came to
pick it up, he never called to tell me I could put it back in the house,
he never called at all, and he never thanked me. Nothin'.

Since then I've brushed him off a couple times, and I wouldn't even go
tomorrow except I'm curious and he lives less than 100 yards away.

I'm especially curious because he told me that pros told him the control
box needed replacing. (He called me 3 or 4 days ago to get my spare
control box but a) I used it already, b) he told me the problem and I
told him the control box has nothing to do with it.) He gave me the
name of the company that told him that and their webpage says they've
been in business since 1983. That's a long time to not understand what
controls the fan. His business address seems to be his home, and he
has a biggg home, 2 2/2's or 3 1/2 high, with a biggg swimming pool, and
a tennis court, a 3-acre lot backed by acres of woods, neatly trimmed
bushes and neatly mown lawn, in an expensive suburban n'hood not so far
away. He couldn't screw up that often, so this must be some shlock
employee giving out bad advice.

I see nothing but trouble here. I'd just stay away. The blower could
very well be stuck on because of a bad controller, which was what was
diagnosed.

There is no controller, only a relay. Disconnecting the relay coil
would be the next step. Its the black and blue wires, connected to the
G and C terminals respectively.

No, he was told the problem was what he called when he talked to me "the
grey box" (which I then called the control box). Or at least that's
what he wanted to get from me. I once found my exact box on the web and
I think it was under 100, but a furnace repair company would probably
charge 200 or more. If they had actually told him it was the relay, $45
plus 50 labor, I think he would have done it. It's the 2 hundred
dollars plus what, 50 - 200 labor** that's making him balk. If I
remember, I'll ask him how much they wanted.


The relay otoh would cost $20 as a relay and maybe 45 as a furnace part
and I think the fan relay enclosure is right on the face of the furnace,
chest high and easy to get to, but I don't have the exact part and I'm
not going to do it.

I know for sure he said they said it was the control box, and I know for
sure, that's not the problem.

**I wish there was a webpage that rated furnace repairs, like there is
for auto repairs.

Or like Gfre said,
very old furnaces just used thermostatic switches in the furnace plenum
to turn the blower on and off.

Not in the plenum, in the thermostat.

No, like Gfre said in the plenum. Even in newer installs where there is
a fan wire, that wire doesn't turn the fan on and off when the furnace
fires up. The furnace does that itself. The fan switch on the thermostat
is there only to allow you to turn the fan on that way as an additional
way. It's extremely unlikely the thermostat switch would fail in the
closed position. Short in the wiring is possible, but unlikely. My bet
would be a controller problem at the furnace, which is what the repair
service diagnosed.

Even if you're right, yes and no. He gave my neighbor N the impression
that it was the grey controller box, and the limit and the fan and limit
switch is elsewhere. not in something that is called a controller. So
either the pro was wrong, or he doesn't communicate well, or he did get
it right and say it right and Neighbor still got it wrong.

Also, not that it matters, you said that it doesn't cost too much to
run the blower full time.

I said it "might have cost him a little money". I was not ignoring the
money aspect, but not trying to guess how much.

That's true if it's one of the new ECM motors,
they do use less electricity because they are more efficient and because
they run it at very low speed to circulate the air. But if it's an
older furnace with a PSC motor, it will use a lot more because it's not
as efficient and it will run faster than one of the new ones because
it thinks it's running for heat, not the slow speed typical to just
recirculate.

The motors are 3 speed but once the wires are connected, they stay at
the same speed all the time. Mine was set on low, probably his too,
but I don't think that is as low as new blower motors go during the
cool-down phase, or maybe even the always on phase. So it definitely
cost him money, and he doesn't have that much, but not my problem.

Thanks for insisting on what you meant, even when I didn't get it.

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 11 Dec 2017 07:18:05 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Monday, December 11, 2017 at 10:17:13 AM UTC-5, wrote:

Or like Gfre said,
very old furnaces just used thermostatic switches in the furnace plenum
to turn the blower on and off.

Not in the plenum, in the thermostat.

no in the furnace .

the air handler blower in my furnace can be turned on 2 different ways.
1) by the wires in the thermostat which you already discussed
2) by a bi metallic switch in the furnace

Oh, I get it. I know about this but in my defense, I was confused by
the word "just", which must have applied to a different part of the
idea.

I know about it, but I hadn't thought about it, so I'm glad I posted. In
fact, this is exactly the sort of thing I thought I might have missed.


the cycle goes like this
1) thermostat calls for heat
this turns on the burner AND the blower
2) furnace heats up the house
3) thermostat stops calling for heat
this switches off the burner and the blower BUT.....
4) the blower keeps running because the bi metallic switch in the furnace is still warm

this keeps the blower running until the heat in the furnace has been removed.

the bi metallic switch in my case also is the hi limit and will turn off the burner if the temp in the furnace gets too high.

there are two tabs that can be adjusted

If the blower tab is adjusted too low, the blower will never turn off.

I asked him, twice, if it worked right when he last got it repaired but
he mumbles and I couldn't tell what he said.

it is something like this

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Honeywell...C0qsQ AvD_BwE



mark

and this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg0nK4QLpZo

mark

Thanks for both links. The video is good. It's amazing to me that a
bimetal strip can make so many cycles and still work. I don't actually
know my limit switch is working but I know the furnace stays on about
the same amount of time as it always has after the fire goes out.

i've also never seen a strip that big/long. I guess I just didn't think
about what was inside the thing.

Here's a website where the guy has printed advice on HVAC and he says if
you write to him, he'll give personal advice. What could be better
than that? Well, he doesn't mention charging but maybe he does. It
would be fair. http://www.graycoolingman.com/

And of course he said he got home at 4 but it's 5:40 and he hasn't
called and might not ever. But I wasn't holding my breath.

But this is still good for me, because I won't forget about this switch
again.


As I said, I intend to tell you all how this ends up.

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 11 Dec 2017 14:14:03 GMT, Iggy
m wrote:

replying to micky, Iggy wrote:
I found a couple of videos that might actually double-check what you're doing
and should be helpful in getting this guy out of your life. The 1st is about
the Blower Running and gives great information on the Thermostat's fitness and
then also the wiring and board causes and workarounds...Blower Fan Motor Won't
Shut off!- STEP by STEP Troubleshooting!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxRB4MVFOuo

The 2nd is about the different generations of Fan Limiter switches. If you
have the first of biggest type that has the silver disk, there's a white
button or knob on the bottom left that needs to be pulled or set to the
outward position for Auto Fan operation or the Fan Limiter needs replacement
if the Auto setting doesn't kill the fan...Why is my fan running all the time
with no heat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIWECzCI-Wg

Thanks. I may just send this to my neighbor!

And maybe the links in the other posts too.

I must say that for homeownershub, you are at the top.

On Monday, December 11, 2017 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 11 Dec 2017 07:28:47 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, December 11, 2017 at 9:22:17 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 11 Dec 2017 02:43:28 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, December 10, 2017 at 7:27:50 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
My neighbor, who is quite a jerk**, is having trouble with his Carrier
oil furnace. He says the furnace goes on and off but the fan stays on
all the time. He says the thermostat is in the auto position, not On.

Looking at the wiring diagram, it seems clear to me that the fan is
controlled by the G and Y terminals on the control box, which is
controlled by the G and Y terminals on the thermostat. Which are
probably connected by green and yellow wires. And maybe (unlikely) the
thermostat is bad, or stray wires from the G or Y are touching the other
terminal. And at the very least disconnecting one of those two wires
will stop the fan or not, and give essential debugging information .
(And reconnnecting it right after, because the fan is needed when the
burner is burning. I'm talking about the warm air house circulation
fan, not the fan that blows air into the oil burner.)

Also, and this I'm less sure of, the fan can stay on for months without
stopping and without burning out without shortening its life much. So
being on 24/day for a few days didn't hurt the fan, but might have cost
him a little money.

I don't need any help on this afaik,since I've spent plenty of time on
an identical furnace.... unless I said something incorrect above. Did
I?


**If I hadnt' had bad experiences with him, I'd print out the wiring
diagrams of the furnace etc. and take it with me tomorrow evening, but
he's been such a pain.

How bizarre. The guy is an AH, you're going to go over there anyway,

Curiosity has me.

but because he's an AH you're not going to take wiring diagrams with you?

I wasn't, but my memory for stuff like that is bad, and the page was
right in front of me, so I printed it.


He never identifies himself when he calls. Last
winter when I went over and couldn't fix it, I asked him when he got it
fixed to find out what the problem was and let me know. He didn't do
that. I asked him to call me when the paid repairman is there. He
didn't do that.

But the prize was when he wanted an oil pump, and I have spare parts for
many things because when a neighbor got a new furnace, I got the old
burner. So it was the day of the funeral of one of my best friends (and
he knew that), my first good friend to die, under depressing
circumstances, and after I got home from the funeral, instead of going
to sleep like I wanted to, I took the time to take the oil pump out of
the burner, clean up the dripping oil, wrap it up and put it on the
porch, as I told him the night before I would do. He never came to
pick it up, he never called to tell me I could put it back in the house,
he never called at all, and he never thanked me. Nothin'.

Since then I've brushed him off a couple times, and I wouldn't even go
tomorrow except I'm curious and he lives less than 100 yards away.

I'm especially curious because he told me that pros told him the control
box needed replacing. (He called me 3 or 4 days ago to get my spare
control box but a) I used it already, b) he told me the problem and I
told him the control box has nothing to do with it.) He gave me the
name of the company that told him that and their webpage says they've
been in business since 1983. That's a long time to not understand what
controls the fan. His business address seems to be his home, and he
has a biggg home, 2 2/2's or 3 1/2 high, with a biggg swimming pool, and
a tennis court, a 3-acre lot backed by acres of woods, neatly trimmed
bushes and neatly mown lawn, in an expensive suburban n'hood not so far
away. He couldn't screw up that often, so this must be some shlock
employee giving out bad advice.

I see nothing but trouble here. I'd just stay away. The blower could
very well be stuck on because of a bad controller, which was what was
diagnosed.

There is no controller, only a relay. Disconnecting the relay coil
would be the next step. Its the black and blue wires, connected to the
G and C terminals respectively.

No, he was told the problem was what he called when he talked to me "the
grey box" (which I then called the control box). Or at least that's
what he wanted to get from me. I once found my exact box on the web and
I think it was under 100, but a furnace repair company would probably
charge 200 or more. If they had actually told him it was the relay, $45
plus 50 labor, I think he would have done it. It's the 2 hundred
dollars plus what, 50 - 200 labor** that's making him balk. If I
remember, I'll ask him how much they wanted.


The relay otoh would cost $20 as a relay and maybe 45 as a furnace part
and I think the fan relay enclosure is right on the face of the furnace,
chest high and easy to get to, but I don't have the exact part and I'm
not going to do it.

I know for sure he said they said it was the control box, and I know for
sure, that's not the problem.

**I wish there was a webpage that rated furnace repairs, like there is
for auto repairs.

Or like Gfre said,
very old furnaces just used thermostatic switches in the furnace plenum
to turn the blower on and off.

Not in the plenum, in the thermostat.

No, like Gfre said in the plenum. Even in newer installs where there is
a fan wire, that wire doesn't turn the fan on and off when the furnace
fires up. The furnace does that itself. The fan switch on the thermostat
is there only to allow you to turn the fan on that way as an additional
way. It's extremely unlikely the thermostat switch would fail in the
closed position. Short in the wiring is possible, but unlikely. My bet
would be a controller problem at the furnace, which is what the repair
service diagnosed.

Even if you're right, yes and no. He gave my neighbor N the impression
that it was the grey controller box, and the limit and the fan and limit
switch is elsewhere. not in something that is called a controller.

That's true for sure if it's a very old furnace. IDK exactly when they
moved away from the temp switches and went to other control methods.
Do you know for sure what it has or doesn't have? I would think furnaces
even 20+ years ago could rely on a controller as part of what makes
turns the fan on and off.



So
either the pro was wrong, or he doesn't communicate well, or he did get
it right and say it right and Neighbor still got it wrong.

Maybe, but you haven't convinced me, or even gone over there to figure
out what's wrong, have you?




Also, not that it matters, you said that it doesn't cost too much to
run the blower full time.

I said it "might have cost him a little money". I was not ignoring the
money aspect, but not trying to guess how much.

That's true if it's one of the new ECM motors,
they do use less electricity because they are more efficient and because
they run it at very low speed to circulate the air. But if it's an
older furnace with a PSC motor, it will use a lot more because it's not
as efficient and it will run faster than one of the new ones because
it thinks it's running for heat, not the slow speed typical to just
recirculate.

The motors are 3 speed but once the wires are connected, they stay at
the same speed all the time. Mine was set on low, probably his too,
but I don't think that is as low as new blower motors go during the
cool-down phase, or maybe even the always on phase. So it definitely
cost him money, and he doesn't have that much, but not my problem.

They probably stay at the one speed for heating, but if they have AC,
AC typically is higher speed.



Thanks for insisting on what you meant, even when I didn't get it.

Any time.

replying to micky, Iggy wrote:
You're welcome. I hope it resolves maybe even the relationship.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...t-1152781-.htm

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 11 Dec 2017 16:28:52 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:


Even if you're right, yes and no. He gave my neighbor N the impression
that it was the grey controller box, and the limit and the fan and limit
switch is elsewhere. not in something that is called a controller.

That's true for sure if it's a very old furnace. IDK exactly when they
moved away from the temp switches and went to other control methods.
Do you know for sure what it has or doesn't have?

Yes. I forgot that the fan and limit switch could keep the fan on, but
I didn't forget it existed.

I would think furnaces
even 20+ years ago could rely on a controller as part of what makes
turns the fan on and off.

It's 38 years old.


So
either the pro was wrong, or he doesn't communicate well, or he did get
it right and say it right and Neighbor still got it wrong.

Maybe, but you haven't convinced me, or even gone over there to figure
out what's wrong, have you?

He was supposed to call a little after 4 and now it's 9!

But I know what he said and that's enough to know what's in my previous
paragraph.Because he asked me for the grey box and there is no chance
the problem is in the grey box. (Starting "So either....wrong."




Also, not that it matters, you said that it doesn't cost too much to
run the blower full time.

I said it "might have cost him a little money". I was not ignoring the
money aspect, but not trying to guess how much.

That's true if it's one of the new ECM motors,
they do use less electricity because they are more efficient and because
they run it at very low speed to circulate the air. But if it's an
older furnace with a PSC motor, it will use a lot more because it's not
as efficient and it will run faster than one of the new ones because
it thinks it's running for heat, not the slow speed typical to just
recirculate.

The motors are 3 speed but once the wires are connected, they stay at
the same speed all the time. Mine was set on low, probably his too,
but I don't think that is as low as new blower motors go during the
cool-down phase, or maybe even the always on phase. So it definitely
cost him money, and he doesn't have that much, but not my problem.

They probably stay at the one speed for heating, but if they have AC,
AC typically is higher speed.

Nope. Same speed for heat and cooling. You have a new model.

Except the wiring diagram I downloaded shows the default to be running
at high speed until the burner or AC shuts down and then low speed until
the fan switch cools down. I'm not positive that part corresponds to
what's here. I remember only two of the fan motor wires connected to
anything, but I looked 30 years ago and might not have been paying
attention even then. At any rate, MY fan didn't run at high speed
ever, but at low speed of 3 or 4 speeds. (Because I switched the wires
to make the fan quieter, trying every choice, and it was already as
quiet as it would get. The colors indicated that before I started, but I
tried anyhow.When that didn't work I started closing my bedroom door.)

Somewhere I have the paper manual that actually came with the furnace.
I'm not sure it wouldn't have the same discrepancy, but if I remember
I'll check, when I find it.

Thanks for insisting on what you meant, even when I didn't get it.

Any time.

On Monday, December 11, 2017 at 9:17:17 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 11 Dec 2017 16:28:52 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:


Even if you're right, yes and no. He gave my neighbor N the impression
that it was the grey controller box, and the limit and the fan and limit
switch is elsewhere. not in something that is called a controller.

That's true for sure if it's a very old furnace. IDK exactly when they
moved away from the temp switches and went to other control methods.
Do you know for sure what it has or doesn't have?

Yes. I forgot that the fan and limit switch could keep the fan on, but
I didn't forget it existed.

I would think furnaces
even 20+ years ago could rely on a controller as part of what makes
turns the fan on and off.

It's 38 years old.

Probably time for a new one. I saw my bills cut in half going from
one that was 25 years old to a new one. That was gas, with oil, the
fuel cost savings in dollars is more substantial and they payback
time would be reasonable.

Except the wiring diagram I downloaded shows the default to be running
at high speed until the burner or AC shuts down and then low speed until
the fan switch cools down.

that is EXACTLY the way mine operates
the blower runs a low speed during the cool down.

its hard to tell one blower speed from the other by ear, but if you can, it would be a clue as to why the blower is on all the time.

Does it speed up when you switch the T stat from auto to On?

m

On Tuesday, December 12, 2017 at 1:52:11 PM UTC-5, wrote:

Except the wiring diagram I downloaded shows the default to be running
at high speed until the burner or AC shuts down and then low speed until
the fan switch cools down.

that is EXACTLY the way mine operates
the blower runs a low speed during the cool down.

its hard to tell one blower speed from the other by ear, but if you can, it would be a clue as to why the blower is on all the time.

Does it speed up when you switch the T stat from auto to On?

m

That's a quick, easy test that would produce some useful info.
If it responds then it rules out the wiring to the thermostat and
the thermostat fan switch.

I've also see older furnaces where once the blower turned off,
a minute later it would come back on again, because the low temp
turn off was set low and so was the fan turn on point. So, the
residual heat would make it start up a second time.

My old furnace here, if I had the temp set way back to like 45 while
away on a trip, when I came back and started it up, the reverse
would happen. Upon startup, after a couple mins the blower would
come on, but after about 30 secs, it would shut off, because the
temp had dropped enough to cycle it off. A minute later it would
be back on. It would do that a few times until it staid on permanently.

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 12 Dec 2017 08:15:58 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, December 11, 2017 at 9:17:17 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 11 Dec 2017 16:28:52 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:


Even if you're right, yes and no. He gave my neighbor N the impression
that it was the grey controller box, and the limit and the fan and limit
switch is elsewhere. not in something that is called a controller.

That's true for sure if it's a very old furnace. IDK exactly when they
moved away from the temp switches and went to other control methods.
Do you know for sure what it has or doesn't have?

Yes. I forgot that the fan and limit switch could keep the fan on, but
I didn't forget it existed.

I would think furnaces
even 20+ years ago could rely on a controller as part of what makes
turns the fan on and off.

It's 38 years old.

Probably time for a new one.

For sure, but like I say, he doesn't have much money. He told me a
while back that he was going to get a heat pump, as if it were arranged,
but later he said he was told it wouldn't work. Some people around here
have heat pumps, but it takes quite a while to heat their houses.

I saw my bills cut in half going from
one that was 25 years old to a new one. That was gas, with oil, the
fuel cost savings in dollars is more substantial

I think it's less.

and they payback
time would be reasonable.

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 12 Dec 2017 10:52:05 -0800 (PST),
wrote:



Except the wiring diagram I downloaded shows the default to be running
at high speed until the burner or AC shuts down and then low speed until
the fan switch cools down.

that is EXACTLY the way mine operates
the blower runs a low speed during the cool down.

its hard to tell one blower speed from the other by ear, but if you can,

When I was trying other fan speeds, I could tell that the one I started
with was the slowest. (which is what I wanted)

it would be a clue as to why the blower is on all the time.

Does it speed up when you switch the T stat from auto to On?

You mean during the cool-down time. I can't check now. But I'm pretty
sure I only had two wires from the motor connected to anything. It's
hard to recheck because my workbench and other stuff is in the way now.

Anyhow, now it's 25 hours since he was supposed to call. What a jerk.

This time I'm not going to just ignore his jerkiness but when I talk to
him again, even if he doesn't ask for help, I'm going to tell him how
annoying he is. (His back yard is very charming and even the front is
nice, but maybe a previous owner fixed it up. I can't imagine him doing
it.)

m

On Tuesday, December 12, 2017 at 4:58:03 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 12 Dec 2017 10:52:05 -0800 (PST),
wrote:



Except the wiring diagram I downloaded shows the default to be running
at high speed until the burner or AC shuts down and then low speed until
the fan switch cools down.

that is EXACTLY the way mine operates
the blower runs a low speed during the cool down.

its hard to tell one blower speed from the other by ear, but if you can,

When I was trying other fan speeds, I could tell that the one I started
with was the slowest. (which is what I wanted)

it would be a clue as to why the blower is on all the time.

Does it speed up when you switch the T stat from auto to On?

You mean during the cool-down time.

I presume he mako means when it's running abnormally, which you said
was 24/7 no?



I can't check now. But I'm pretty
sure I only had two wires from the motor connected to anything. It's
hard to recheck because my workbench and other stuff is in the way now.

Anyhow, now it's 25 hours since he was supposed to call. What a jerk.

This time I'm not going to just ignore his jerkiness but when I talk to
him again, even if he doesn't ask for help, I'm going to tell him how
annoying he is. (His back yard is very charming and even the front is
nice, but maybe a previous owner fixed it up. I can't imagine him doing
it.)

m