Hello,

I had my oil furnace serviced yesterday by my oil comany. During the servicing the nozzle and filter were replaced and the flue was cleaned. After the repairman left I noticed a strong odor of oil in the heated air which was not present before he worked on it and I thought this was just from stirring things up in the furnace and flue and that it would go away soon.

Well, next morning the smell was still very strong so I called and the repairman came back for a look. When he looked he found a large crack in the side of the combustion chamber. The chamber will cost $1500 to replace according to this guy.

This left me feeling as though I'm being taken advantage of. Shouldn't a crack in the combustion chamber been detected during the maintenace? The crack was in a remote location, so I can understand how he would not have seen it directly on his first visit, but he did take CO2, stack temp, and draft measurements and I think this problem should have been caught.

Now I know very little about oil furnaces, so I'm hoping I can get a little advice or opinion on this situation. I still haven't decided if I'm going to replace the combustion chamber. I was thinking I might be able to epoxy the crack. I'd like to know if this is possible so that I can save myself a lot of money. Of course, I need to be sure that the solution is also safe.

Thanks

"Romwar" wrote in message
...

Hello,

I had my oil furnace serviced yesterday by my oil comany. During the
servicing the nozzle and filter were replaced and the flue was cleaned.
After the repairman left I noticed a strong odor of oil in the heated
air which was not present before he worked on it and I thought this was
just from stirring things up in the furnace and flue and that it would
go away soon.

Well, next morning the smell was still very strong so I called and the
repairman came back for a look. When he looked he found a large crack
in the side of the combustion chamber. The chamber will cost $1500 to
replace according to this guy.

This left me feeling as though I'm being taken advantage of. Shouldn't
a crack in the combustion chamber been detected during the maintenace?
The crack was in a remote location, so I can understand how he would
not have seen it directly on his first visit, but he did take CO2,
stack temp, and draft measurements and I think this problem should have
been caught.

Now I know very little about oil furnaces, so I'm hoping I can get a
little advice or opinion on this situation. I still haven't decided if
I'm going to replace the combustion chamber. I was thinking I might be
able to epoxy the crack. I'd like to know if this is possible so that
I can save myself a lot of money. Of course, I need to be sure that
the solution is also safe.

Thanks


--
Romwar

First off get a second opinion, second, if there is a crack, replace the
heat exchanger, or the whole furnace. Third, do not run the furnace untill
you get it repaired! This is not something you mess around with and try
patch, it can kill you!
Greg

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 21:52:20 +0000, Romwar
wrote:


Hello,

I had my oil furnace serviced yesterday by my oil comany. During the
servicing the nozzle and filter were replaced and the flue was cleaned.
After the repairman left I noticed a strong odor of oil in the heated
air which was not present before he worked on it and I thought this was
just from stirring things up in the furnace and flue and that it would
go away soon.

Well, next morning the smell was still very strong so I called and the
repairman came back for a look. When he looked he found a large crack
in the side of the combustion chamber. The chamber will cost $1500 to
replace according to this guy.

This left me feeling as though I'm being taken advantage of. Shouldn't
a crack in the combustion chamber been detected during the maintenace?
The crack was in a remote location, so I can understand how he would
not have seen it directly on his first visit, but he did take CO2,
stack temp, and draft measurements and I think this problem should have
been caught.

Now I know very little about oil furnaces, so I'm hoping I can get a
little advice or opinion on this situation. I still haven't decided if
I'm going to replace the combustion chamber. I was thinking I might be
able to epoxy the crack. I'd like to know if this is possible so that
I can save myself a lot of money. Of course, I need to be sure that
the solution is also safe.

Thanks

Epoxy the crack?? WTF! Holly ****! Now Ive heard everything. You
freakin idiot. Get a second opinion. DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT attempt
some stupid home remedy repair on a heat exchanger that may cost your
or your family their lives. Get a qualified HVAC company out that
specializes in oil. In specific, make sure your tech comes out with a
digital combustion analyzer and that he knows how to use it. You might
also not want to look for the cheapest hack you can find.
Bubba

Bubba wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 21:52:20 +0000, Romwar
wrote:


Hello,

I had my oil furnace serviced yesterday by my oil comany. During the
servicing the nozzle and filter were replaced and the flue was cleaned.
After the repairman left I noticed a strong odor of oil in the heated
air which was not present before he worked on it and I thought this was
just from stirring things up in the furnace and flue and that it would
go away soon.

Well, next morning the smell was still very strong so I called and the
repairman came back for a look. When he looked he found a large crack
in the side of the combustion chamber. The chamber will cost $1500 to
replace according to this guy.

This left me feeling as though I'm being taken advantage of. Shouldn't
a crack in the combustion chamber been detected during the maintenace?
The crack was in a remote location, so I can understand how he would
not have seen it directly on his first visit, but he did take CO2,
stack temp, and draft measurements and I think this problem should have
been caught.

Now I know very little about oil furnaces, so I'm hoping I can get a
little advice or opinion on this situation. I still haven't decided if
I'm going to replace the combustion chamber. I was thinking I might be
able to epoxy the crack. I'd like to know if this is possible so that
I can save myself a lot of money. Of course, I need to be sure that
the solution is also safe.

Thanks

Epoxy the crack?? WTF! Holly ****! Now Ive heard everything. You
freakin idiot. Get a second opinion. DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT attempt
some stupid home remedy repair on a heat exchanger that may cost your
or your family their lives. Get a qualified HVAC company out that
specializes in oil. In specific, make sure your tech comes out with a
digital combustion analyzer and that he knows how to use it. You might
also not want to look for the cheapest hack you can find.
Bubba


And how old is the furnace? Typically when a crack like this occurs,
it's at the end of the life of the furnace, so you replace the
furnace. You can't patch the heat exchanger, because not only won't
it work, but it can kill you with CO.

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 23:13:36 GMT, Bubba
wrote:

Epoxy the crack?? WTF! Holly ****! Now Ive heard everything. You
freakin idiot. Get a second opinion. DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT attempt
some stupid home remedy repair on a heat exchanger that may cost your
or your family their lives. Get a qualified HVAC company out that
specializes in oil. In specific, make sure your tech comes out with a
digital combustion analyzer and that he knows how to use it. You might
also not want to look for the cheapest hack you can find.
Bubba


Now now Bubba, he did ask if it was safe. Obviously it isin't

However, I would side with you on the re-inspection but I am curious
as to what this is. By this, I mean if there's a crack, then wouldn't
sealing it stop the outflow of dangerous gases?

Or is there something that we (Of the non-oil and ignorant) don't
understand or see.

Could you elaborate?

"Gene" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 23:13:36 GMT, Bubba
wrote:

Epoxy the crack?? WTF! Holly ****! Now Ive heard everything. You
freakin idiot. Get a second opinion. DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT attempt
some stupid home remedy repair on a heat exchanger that may cost your
or your family their lives. Get a qualified HVAC company out that
specializes in oil. In specific, make sure your tech comes out with a
digital combustion analyzer and that he knows how to use it. You might
also not want to look for the cheapest hack you can find.
Bubba


Now now Bubba, he did ask if it was safe. Obviously it isin't

However, I would side with you on the re-inspection but I am curious
as to what this is. By this, I mean if there's a crack, then wouldn't
sealing it stop the outflow of dangerous gases?

Or is there something that we (Of the non-oil and ignorant) don't
understand or see.

Could you elaborate?

You mean to elaborate as to why repairs on heat exchangers and burner
compartments is not done, but replacement is?

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 11:21:35 -0500, "Steve@carolinabreezehvac"
wrote:


"Gene" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 23:13:36 GMT, Bubba
wrote:

Epoxy the crack?? WTF! Holly ****! Now Ive heard everything. You
freakin idiot. Get a second opinion. DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT attempt
some stupid home remedy repair on a heat exchanger that may cost your
or your family their lives. Get a qualified HVAC company out that
specializes in oil. In specific, make sure your tech comes out with a
digital combustion analyzer and that he knows how to use it. You might
also not want to look for the cheapest hack you can find.
Bubba


Now now Bubba, he did ask if it was safe. Obviously it isin't

However, I would side with you on the re-inspection but I am curious
as to what this is. By this, I mean if there's a crack, then wouldn't
sealing it stop the outflow of dangerous gases?

Or is there something that we (Of the non-oil and ignorant) don't
understand or see.

Could you elaborate?

You mean to elaborate as to why repairs on heat exchangers and burner
compartments is not done, but replacement is?


Yes, I would say that's my question. Thank you

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:02:38 GMT, Gene wrote:

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 11:21:35 -0500, "Steve@carolinabreezehvac"
wrote:


"Gene" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 23:13:36 GMT, Bubba
wrote:

Epoxy the crack?? WTF! Holly ****! Now Ive heard everything. You
freakin idiot. Get a second opinion. DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT attempt
some stupid home remedy repair on a heat exchanger that may cost your
or your family their lives. Get a qualified HVAC company out that
specializes in oil. In specific, make sure your tech comes out with a
digital combustion analyzer and that he knows how to use it. You might
also not want to look for the cheapest hack you can find.
Bubba


Now now Bubba, he did ask if it was safe. Obviously it isin't

However, I would side with you on the re-inspection but I am curious
as to what this is. By this, I mean if there's a crack, then wouldn't
sealing it stop the outflow of dangerous gases?

Or is there something that we (Of the non-oil and ignorant) don't
understand or see.

Could you elaborate?

You mean to elaborate as to why repairs on heat exchangers and burner
compartments is not done, but replacement is?


Yes, I would say that's my question. Thank you

Well Gene, you are making it into to the marks of utter wisdomless.
I wont be held liable for trying to patch/weld/muck-up a heat
exchanger. It will most likely take me longer to repair one (which I
wont and dont do) than to install a new heat exchanger. The original
poster was wanting to epoxy a crack in a heat exchanger. Have you ever
seen a Williamson heat exchanger? Very thick metal. Then it gets a
flame beat on it. You would epoxy that? Not I. Now the poster could
have even been talking about the refractory in the oil furnace. I dont
know. Either way, I dont repair those either. They get replaced too if
they are available.
A cracked heat exchanger means you either get a new heat exchanger or
a new furnace. NO OTHER CHOICES!
Bubba

Don't repair it!! You are just asking for trouble (or death!)

If it DOES have a crack, get at least 3 QUOTES (from 3 different companies)
and replace the furnace. Unless it is less than 10 years old, I wouldn't
bother just replacing the heat exchanger.....


"Romwar" wrote in message
...

Hello,

I had my oil furnace serviced yesterday by my oil comany. During the
servicing the nozzle and filter were replaced and the flue was cleaned.
After the repairman left I noticed a strong odor of oil in the heated
air which was not present before he worked on it and I thought this was
just from stirring things up in the furnace and flue and that it would
go away soon.

Well, next morning the smell was still very strong so I called and the
repairman came back for a look. When he looked he found a large crack
in the side of the combustion chamber. The chamber will cost $1500 to
replace according to this guy.

This left me feeling as though I'm being taken advantage of. Shouldn't
a crack in the combustion chamber been detected during the maintenace?
The crack was in a remote location, so I can understand how he would
not have seen it directly on his first visit, but he did take CO2,
stack temp, and draft measurements and I think this problem should have
been caught.

Now I know very little about oil furnaces, so I'm hoping I can get a
little advice or opinion on this situation. I still haven't decided if
I'm going to replace the combustion chamber. I was thinking I might be
able to epoxy the crack. I'd like to know if this is possible so that
I can save myself a lot of money. Of course, I need to be sure that
the solution is also safe.

Thanks


--
Romwar

"Romwar" wrote in message
...

Hello,

I had my oil furnace serviced yesterday by my oil comany. During the
servicing the nozzle and filter were replaced and the flue was cleaned.
After the repairman left I noticed a strong odor of oil in the heated
air which was not present before he worked on it and I thought this was
just from stirring things up in the furnace and flue and that it would
go away soon.

Well, next morning the smell was still very strong so I called and the
repairman came back for a look. When he looked he found a large crack
in the side of the combustion chamber. The chamber will cost $1500 to
replace according to this guy.

This left me feeling as though I'm being taken advantage of. Shouldn't
a crack in the combustion chamber been detected during the maintenace?
The crack was in a remote location, so I can understand how he would
not have seen it directly on his first visit, but he did take CO2,
stack temp, and draft measurements and I think this problem should have
been caught.

How long was the first guy there? When we service oil, it takes over an hour
and leaves the tech smelling like he went for a dip in your storage tank.
if he was there about 30 minutes, he just changed the nozzle and perhaps
went looking it over....and if you paid less than $100..thats what you got.


Now I know very little about oil furnaces, so I'm hoping I can get a
little advice or opinion on this situation. I still haven't decided if
I'm going to replace the combustion chamber. I was thinking I might be
able to epoxy the crack. I'd like to know if this is possible so that
I can save myself a lot of money. Of course, I need to be sure that
the solution is also safe.

Ok..for starters....unless you have a ThermoPride, and the units under 10
years old, get a new unit, but shop around for a bit. Get at least 3 quotes,
and be prepared to pay for them..
Epoxy the crack? Bubba said it best, Holy **** are you that stupid? Heat
exchangers are NOT to be repaired, they are to be thrown away when
cracked...period. Your life may depend on it...if you are sure you wanna
epoxy it, ask yourself this..would you crank your car up in the garage, and
close the door, and take a nap out there?
if not..replace the unit, or exchanger...
oh..its illegal in most states for a tech to leave your unit operational if
its got a crack in the exchanger, so, I dont know why you still have heat.
Here, we can do two things...shut it off, or shut it off and call an
inspector, who then will condem the home until it is repaired.
I would be wondering more about that first company, and WHY they didnt
dis-able the unit.


Thanks


--
Romwar

Stop pay on the check, get a different tech, you been had by a hack.
OMG EPOXY !!!

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 03:56:21 -0600, (m Ransley)
wrote:

Stop pay on the check, get a different tech, you been had by a hack.
OMG EPOXY !!!

Stop payment? You freakin idiot. How about maybe try to resolve it in
some sort of civil manner? The guy had it serviced by his oil company.
If he stops payment he may not get any more oil delivered. He may be
in an area that there is only one oil distributor. Where would that
leave him? It may be shot or the oil company may be a bunch of idiots
when it comes to service? He needs to get a second opinion or two. He
may come out ahead. in the long run. If its bad he may even want to
consider switching to heat pump. Electric is cheap here.
Either way I dont think much will happen considering he wanted to
epoxy his heat exchanger.
Bubba

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 21:52:20 +0000, Romwar
wrote:


Hello,

I had my oil furnace serviced yesterday by my oil comany. During the
servicing the nozzle and filter were replaced and the flue was cleaned.
After the repairman left I noticed a strong odor of oil in the heated
air which was not present before he worked on it and I thought this was
just from stirring things up in the furnace and flue and that it would
go away soon.

Well, next morning the smell was still very strong so I called and the
repairman came back for a look. When he looked he found a large crack
in the side of the combustion chamber. The chamber will cost $1500 to
replace according to this guy.

This left me feeling as though I'm being taken advantage of. Shouldn't
a crack in the combustion chamber been detected during the maintenace?
The crack was in a remote location, so I can understand how he would
not have seen it directly on his first visit, but he did take CO2,
stack temp, and draft measurements and I think this problem should have
been caught.

Now I know very little about oil furnaces, so I'm hoping I can get a
little advice or opinion on this situation. I still haven't decided if
I'm going to replace the combustion chamber. I was thinking I might be
able to epoxy the crack. I'd like to know if this is possible so that
I can save myself a lot of money. Of course, I need to be sure that
the solution is also safe.


Among the most common mistakes made by new apprentices in the industry
is attempting to repair parts instead of replacing them. It almost
always ends up costing more and is sometimes dangerous. In this case
it is potentially deadly. A patched up heat exchanger cannot be
trusted, and you are gambling with your life.

An experienced service tech will replace parts, rather than try to
repair them. Yes, I know that parts changers have a bad rep, but that
is because they change the wrong parts. Their failure is not in
replacement, but in troubleshooting. A skilled service tech learns as
much as he can about the machine, troubleshoots correctly (buys my
books), and replaces the right part. A skilled DIYer does the same.

Overall, DIYers are good for business. In an effort to save a few
dollars, they generally screw the machine up to the point where it
costs ten times as much to fix it.

Gary R. Lloyd CMS
HVACR Troubleshooting Books/Software
https://www.merchantamerica.com/tmethod/

Update:

A friend of mine who's experienced with oil furnaces advised me to buy a new furnace unless the unit is less than 10yrs old, in which case I should replace the combustion chamber. He doesn't work in Connecticut, so other than advice over the phone he can't help me any further. I've decided to replace the unit, which is a Heil NUOD084EF01. I'm not sure exactly how old it is, but it looks more than ten years old to me. So I called a distributor and he told me the replacement model for this unit is NOMF105 and he sells them for about $1300. I'm having trouble getting prices from any of the others I've called though. They just give me the "we can't tell you the price unless you are a contractor" bull****. Nice little monopoly if you ask me.


So, I was wondering what I should expect to purchase one and have it installed? It's an easy access location and as far as I know the ductwork will match up to this newer model so the install should not be very complicated. I'd appreciate any advice on what this may cost. I am in the central Connecticut area and its getting cold here and everyone's busy. This could not have happened at a worse time.

Thanks to everyone who contributed advice so far, a lot of good information here.

On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 21:33:17 +0000, Romwar
wrote:


Update:

A friend of mine who's experienced with oil furnaces advised me to buy
a new furnace unless the unit is less than 10yrs old, in which case I
should replace the combustion chamber. He doesn't work in Connecticut,
so other than advice over the phone he can't help me any further. I've
decided to replace the unit, which is a Heil NUOD084EF01. I'm not sure
exactly how old it is, but it looks more than ten years old to me. So I
called a distributor and he told me the replacement model for this unit
is NOMF105 and he sells them for about $1300. I'm having trouble
getting prices from any of the others I've called though. They just
give me the "we can't tell you the price unless you are a contractor"
bull****. Nice little monopoly if you ask me.


So, I was wondering what I should expect to purchase one and have it
installed? It's an easy access location and as far as I know the
ductwork will match up to this newer model so the install should not be
very complicated. I'd appreciate any advice on what this may cost. I
am in the central Connecticut area and its getting cold here and
everyone's busy. This could not have happened at a worse time.

Thanks to everyone who contributed advice so far, a lot of good
information here.

Calling a distributor and getting it installed is two different
things. Before you buy that "great deal" of a furnace you may wish to
call a few companies and see if they are willing to install a furnace
for labor only that you already purchased. Be prepared. Most wont do
it. If they do, you will usually find some non busy out of work hack
to do it. Once it is installed you will most likely get no warranty
out of the installing guy. You see, by purchasing it yourself, you
have just cut out some of the profit to the installing company. Less
profit means you will get less of something. In this case, it will be
less warranty. Weight your decisions before you hand out the cash on
what you think might be a good deal.
And just for good measure because Im feeling so generous, you might
want to make sure that the installing guy HAS and knows how to use
some digital combustion efficiency tools. If he tells you he is going
to "eyeball" it, "RUN FOREST, RUN!"
Bubba

"Romwar" wrote in message
...

Update:

A friend of mine who's experienced with oil furnaces advised me to buy
a new furnace unless the unit is less than 10yrs old, in which case I
should replace the combustion chamber. He doesn't work in Connecticut,
so other than advice over the phone he can't help me any further. I've
decided to replace the unit, which is a Heil NUOD084EF01. I'm not sure
exactly how old it is, but it looks more than ten years old to me. So I
called a distributor and he told me the replacement model for this unit
is NOMF105 and he sells them for about $1300. I'm having trouble
getting prices from any of the others I've called though. They just
give me the "we can't tell you the price unless you are a contractor"
bull****. Nice little monopoly if you ask me.


Bull****? Nope..the law , is the law.
Most states require for a reason that fuel burning appliances such as a
furnace be installed by a licenced and insured contractor.
After you buy the furnace, are you going to spend the $1900 on the
combustion tester for the unit?
How about the $250 for the cheap fuel pressure tester?
You know about combustion air, nozzle sizing, spray patterns, and such
right? You know that the nozzle IN the unit, might not be the nozzle YOU
need for your application...might be why you have a damaged unit now.



So, I was wondering what I should expect to purchase one and have it
installed? It's an easy access location and as far as I know the
ductwork will match up to this newer model so the install should not be
very complicated. I'd appreciate any advice on what this may cost. I
am in the central Connecticut area and its getting cold here and
everyone's busy. This could not have happened at a worse time.

It depends. I have done some smaller units for under $1000 for people that
cant afford more.
I have put in a few larger units for over $5,000..depends. What you see as
easy might be a ductwork modification nightmare.And for the record, it is a
rare day indeed when the old duct matches the new unit.


Thanks to everyone who contributed advice so far, a lot of good
information here.


--
Romwar