1. What's the practical difference between a 900 & 1200 foot pound pressure
plate? (yes, I know, 300 foot pounds).
2. Do you bother replacing non torque to yield pressure plate bolts?
3. Do you change the teeth spacing in your flywheel?

I called Marlin Crawler (+1-559-252-7295) today who does not offer an OEM
spec 900 foot pound pressure plate in any of their 5-piece clutch kits.

The only kit they have to fit my vehicle is the MCCL-128 for $300
* Aisin 1200 pound pressure plate
* Seico clutch with steel springs
* Nachi pilot bearing
* Nachi throwout bearing
* Plastic spline alignment tool
https://www.marlincrawler.com/clutch/heavy-duty/clutch-tacoma/1995-04-4cyl-1200-lb-clutch-kit

They recommend pressure plate bolts even though they mentioned they're not
"torque to yield", whatever that means to me in practice:
* MCHT-411
https://www.marlincrawler.com/hardware-tools/hardware/heavy-duty-pressure-plate-bolt-kit

They also sell a flywheel where you can specify the teeth spacing, again,
whatever that means to me in practice:
* MCCL-221A
https://www.marlincrawler.com/clutch/flywheel/flywheel-i4-27-liter

1. What's the practical difference between a 900/1200 pound pressure plate?
2. Do you bother replacing non torque-to-yield pressure plate bolts?
3. Do you change the teeth spacing in your flywheel? Why?

In article , lid says...

1. What's the practical difference between a 900 & 1200 foot pound pressure
plate? (yes, I know, 300 foot pounds).
2. Do you bother replacing non torque to yield pressure plate bolts?
3. Do you change the teeth spacing in your flywheel?

I called Marlin Crawler (+1-559-252-7295) today who does not offer an OEM
spec 900 foot pound pressure plate in any of their 5-piece clutch kits.

The only kit they have to fit my vehicle is the MCCL-128 for $300
* Aisin 1200 pound pressure plate
* Seico clutch with steel springs
* Nachi pilot bearing
* Nachi throwout bearing
* Plastic spline alignment tool
https://www.marlincrawler.com/clutch/heavy-duty/clutch-tacoma/1995-04-4cyl-1200-lb-clutch-kit

They recommend pressure plate bolts even though they mentioned they're not
"torque to yield", whatever that means to me in practice:
* MCHT-411
https://www.marlincrawler.com/hardware-tools/hardware/heavy-duty-pressure-plate-bolt-kit

They also sell a flywheel where you can specify the teeth spacing, again,
whatever that means to me in practice:
* MCCL-221A
https://www.marlincrawler.com/clutch/flywheel/flywheel-i4-27-liter

1. What's the practical difference between a 900/1200 pound pressure plate?
2. Do you bother replacing non torque-to-yield pressure plate bolts?
3. Do you change the teeth spacing in your flywheel? Why?

My thoughts are the more foot pounds would do two things, make the clutch
harder to push, but at the same time make the clutch slip less likely.
Many clutch bolts are designed to stretch when tightened and should not
be reused. Teeth on the flywheel do not change, they are only for starter
motor to flywheel function.

--
RonNNN

On 14/11/2017 11:36 AM, harry newton wrote:
1. What's the practical difference between a 900 & 1200 foot pound pressure
plate? (yes, I know, 300 foot pounds).
2. Do you bother replacing non torque to yield pressure plate bolts?
3. Do you change the teeth spacing in your flywheel?

I called Marlin Crawler (+1-559-252-7295) today who does not offer an OEM
spec 900 foot pound pressure plate in any of their 5-piece clutch kits.
The only kit they have to fit my vehicle is the MCCL-128 for $300
* Aisin 1200 pound pressure plate
* Seico clutch with steel springs
* Nachi pilot bearing
* Nachi throwout bearing
* Plastic spline alignment tool
https://www.marlincrawler.com/clutch/heavy-duty/clutch-tacoma/1995-04-4cyl-1200-lb-clutch-kit


They recommend pressure plate bolts even though they mentioned they're not
"torque to yield", whatever that means to me in practice:
* MCHT-411
https://www.marlincrawler.com/hardware-tools/hardware/heavy-duty-pressure-plate-bolt-kit

They may be of a higher grade than the originals. After all, the
pressure on them would be higher with the stronger pressure plate.

They also sell a flywheel where you can specify the teeth spacing, again,
whatever that means to me in practice:
* MCCL-221A
https://www.marlincrawler.com/clutch/flywheel/flywheel-i4-27-liter

Different applications, different starters. It would be something you
would want to check to make sure you get the correct tooth spacing for
your application.

1. What's the practical difference between a 900/1200 pound pressure plate?

300 pound extra clamping pressure on the clutch plate. Ergo, reduced
likelihood of slippage under extreme conditions.

2. Do you bother replacing non torque-to-yield pressure plate bolts?

Normally no but when installing heavier duty components I would highly
recommend it.

3. Do you change the teeth spacing in your flywheel? Why?

No because it will no longer match your starter pinion. Measure and
purchase the correct spacing for your own application.


--

Xeno

He who is Xeno said on Tue, 14 Nov 2017 15:35:55 +1100:

300 pound extra clamping pressure on the clutch plate. Ergo, reduced
likelihood of slippage under extreme conditions.

There must be a tradeoff, simply because there always is a tradeoff.

I get the 1/3 greater clamping, so, in *extreme* loads, like towing a
trailer up the Sierra Nevada mountain range, the 1200 pound should slip
less.

What happens under normal loads?
Nothing different?

He who is RonNNN said on Mon, 13 Nov 2017 22:07:30 -0600:

My thoughts are the more foot pounds would do two things, make the clutch
harder to push, but at the same time make the clutch slip less likely.

I can't possibly disagree as it's a huge 1/3 more torque, but Marlin
Crawler said it's about the same pedal force. Makes no sense, right?

Then I asked what's the difference and they say the obvious, which really
doesn't tell me much practically, which is that the clutch plate is against
the flywheel with 1/3 more force.

What I don't get is what that means, practically, to me?

I guess if I habitually tow a trailer up the Sierra Nevada mountain range
that I'd want "more force" against the flywheel ... but what does it mean
for "normal driving".

What's the tradeoff?

Many clutch bolts are designed to stretch when tightened and should not
be reused. Teeth on the flywheel do not change, they are only for starter
motor to flywheel function.

I think I'll get the bolt kit and I won't change the flywheel teeth.
I can't imagine why they even offer that.

On 14/11/2017 4:30 PM, harry newton wrote:
He who is Xeno said on Tue, 14 Nov 2017 15:35:55 +1100:

300 pound extra clamping pressure on the clutch plate. Ergo, reduced
likelihood of slippage under extreme conditions.

There must be a tradeoff, simply because there always is a tradeoff.

Higher *initial* pedal pressure required is about all I can think of.
It's a diaphragm type pressure plate so the highest pedal force required
is at the beginning of pedal travel but this reduces once the diaphragm
gets towards overcentering. This makes it much easier to *hold* the
clutch pedal in the disengaged position. Bit of info here;

http://what-when-how.com/automobile/...ch-automobile/

In that way it is vastly different from the coil spring type pressure
plate where pedal pressure starts out high - and gets higher the further
the pedal is depressed.

I get the 1/3 greater clamping, so, in *extreme* loads, like towing a
trailer up the Sierra Nevada mountain range, the 1200 pound should slip
less.

What happens under normal loads?
Nothing different?

Exactly. It should give a firmer takeup however.

--

Xeno

On 14/11/2017 4:30 PM, harry newton wrote:
He who is RonNNN said on Mon, 13 Nov 2017 22:07:30 -0600:

My thoughts are the more foot pounds would do two things, make the
clutch harder to push, but at the same time make the clutch slip less
likely.

I can't possibly disagree as it's a huge 1/3 more torque, but Marlin
Crawler said it's about the same pedal force. Makes no sense, right?

It's the way diaphragm plate clutches work.

Then I asked what's the difference and they say the obvious, which really
doesn't tell me much practically, which is that the clutch plate is against
the flywheel with 1/3 more force.

What I don't get is what that means, practically, to me?

I guess if I habitually tow a trailer up the Sierra Nevada mountain range
that I'd want "more force" against the flywheel ... but what does it mean
for "normal driving".

What's the tradeoff?

Many clutch bolts are designed to stretch when tightened and should
not be reused. Teeth on the flywheel do not change, they are only for
starter motor to flywheel function.

I think I'll get the bolt kit and I won't change the flywheel teeth.
I can't imagine why they even offer that.



--

Xeno

On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 00:36:19 +0000 (UTC), harry newton
wrote:

1. What's the practical difference between a 900 & 1200 foot pound pressure
plate? (yes, I know, 300 foot pounds).
2. Do you bother replacing non torque to yield pressure plate bolts?
3. Do you change the teeth spacing in your flywheel?

I called Marlin Crawler (+1-559-252-7295) today who does not offer an OEM
spec 900 foot pound pressure plate in any of their 5-piece clutch kits.

The only kit they have to fit my vehicle is the MCCL-128 for $300
* Aisin 1200 pound pressure plate
* Seico clutch with steel springs
* Nachi pilot bearing
* Nachi throwout bearing
* Plastic spline alignment tool
https://www.marlincrawler.com/clutch/heavy-duty/clutch-tacoma/1995-04-4cyl-1200-lb-clutch-kit

They recommend pressure plate bolts even though they mentioned they're not
"torque to yield", whatever that means to me in practice:
* MCHT-411
https://www.marlincrawler.com/hardware-tools/hardware/heavy-duty-pressure-plate-bolt-kit

They also sell a flywheel where you can specify the teeth spacing, again,
whatever that means to me in practice:
* MCCL-221A
https://www.marlincrawler.com/clutch/flywheel/flywheel-i4-27-liter

1. What's the practical difference between a 900/1200 pound pressure plate?
2. Do you bother replacing non torque-to-yield pressure plate bolts?
3. Do you change the teeth spacing in your flywheel? Why?


1200 lb clutch will build your left thigh muscle in traffic and will
grip a little tighter. Basically a truck or race modification (Once
I'm movong I generally don't use the clutch)

Torque to yeild bolts are "stretched" when tightened and must be
replaced. I don't think I've ever replaced clutch bolts - would on a
drag car, but they use automatics almost exclusively today

1. What's the practical difference between a 900/1200 pound pressure plate?

A stiffer feeling clutch. Probably no difference in life.

2. Do you bother replacing non torque-to-yield pressure plate bolts?

I would do it. I'd replace the throwout bearing and anything else in
the bell end that looks the slightest bit worn. Better to change it now
while you have it apart than have to change it later when it's not. My
inclination is also to clean everything out with naptha and to repack the
new bearing with mobil 1 grease.

3. Do you change the teeth spacing in your flywheel? Why?

You would do that if you wanted to use a different starter. Maybe the starter
for your model is discontinued. Maybe you have a box of cheap starters with
slightly different teeth. I have had to do it before when I could not get a
starter with the correct bendix.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

He who is Clare Snyder said on Tue, 14 Nov 2017 09:23:25 -0500:


Torque to yeild bolts are "stretched" when tightened and must be
replaced. I don't think I've ever replaced clutch bolts - would on a
drag car, but they use automatics almost exclusively today

I'm gonna get the bolts but I don't think I need them, as you explained.
I'll get them because (a) they're only 7 bucks, and (b) Toyota says to use
new bolts every time.

But I agree that I can re-use the old bolts too, so I'll forget about this
for now as *choosing my first clutch kit* is the more important goal.

1200 lb clutch will build your left thigh muscle in traffic and will
grip a little tighter. Basically a truck or race modification (Once
I'm movong I generally don't use the clutch)

I've been researching this on the side and I'm still confused, but one
thing I learned is that the torque from an engine is only about 300 foot
pounds or less (278 foot pounds according to this quick search):
https://www.google.com/search?&q=toyota+4runner+torque+specs

So what I don't get at all, is if an engine only generates 300 foot pounds
of torque, why would we even need a 900 foot pound pressure plate, given
that the ratio of the flywheel diameter to clutch plate diameter is fixed
at what? Almost 1 to 1? Or is it 2:1 or 3:1?

How does this math work that a 1200 foot pound clutch does ANYTHING useful?

He who is Scott Dorsey said on 14 Nov 2017 10:14:44 -0500:

1. What's the practical difference between a 900/1200 pound pressure plate?

A stiffer feeling clutch. Probably no difference in life.

I hate when I don't understand simple things.

I just called Marlin Crawler at +1-559-252-7295 and spoke to Brendan, who,
shockingly, couldn't answer my question of what difference a 900 pound
stock pressure plate would make with respect to a 1200 pound clutch
pressure plate in actual driving.

Since an engine only develops around 300 foot pounds of torque, the
flywheel to clutch friction surface area has to take those 300 foot pounds,
so I asked him if he could measure the flywheel and clutch but he said he
couldn't (which is fair enough) since the web site doesn't say what the
diameters are.

When I asked Brendan why they even sell a 1200 pounder, he mentioned that
they have bigger tires than stock, which is fine - but Brendan couldn't
explain why that matters.

So, I really don't understand what 1200 pounds does for ANYONE.
Clearly my application doesn't need it (which all of you said).

But, what does 900-to-1200 pounds do for ANY application when the engine
can't develop more than 300 foot pounds of torque in the first place?

"harry newton" wrote in message
news
He who is Scott Dorsey said on 14 Nov 2017 10:14:44 -0500:

1. What's the practical difference between a 900/1200
pound pressure plate?

A stiffer feeling clutch. Probably no difference in
life.

I hate when I don't understand simple things.

I just called Marlin Crawler at +1-559-252-7295 and spoke
to Brendan, who,
shockingly, couldn't answer my question of what difference
a 900 pound
stock pressure plate would make with respect to a 1200
pound clutch
pressure plate in actual driving.

Since an engine only develops around 300 foot pounds of
torque, the
flywheel to clutch friction surface area has to take those
300 foot pounds,
so I asked him if he could measure the flywheel and clutch
but he said he
couldn't (which is fair enough) since the web site doesn't
say what the
diameters are.

When I asked Brendan why they even sell a 1200 pounder, he
mentioned that
they have bigger tires than stock, which is fine - but
Brendan couldn't
explain why that matters.

So, I really don't understand what 1200 pounds does for
ANYONE.
Clearly my application doesn't need it (which all of you
said).

But, what does 900-to-1200 pounds do for ANY application
when the engine
can't develop more than 300 foot pounds of torque in the
first place?

The 300 foot pounds of torque is the rotational power of the
engine.
The 1200 pounds of the pressure plate is the clamping
pressure, not
rotational power. This increase in clamping pressure raises
the friction
slip point. They are not related.

Phil Kangas wrote:
The 300 foot pounds of torque is the rotational power of the
engine.
The 1200 pounds of the pressure plate is the clamping
pressure, not
rotational power. This increase in clamping pressure raises
the friction
slip point. They are not related.

It not only raises the friction slip point, but narrows it as well. So if
you're racing and your goal is to pop the clutch as quickly as possible, and
you have the pedal depressed just barely past the friction point, the stiffer
clutch will make for a faster break off the line without riding it at idle.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
news
Phil Kangas wrote:
The 300 foot pounds of torque is the rotational power of
the
engine.
The 1200 pounds of the pressure plate is the clamping
pressure, not
rotational power. This increase in clamping pressure
raises
the friction
slip point. They are not related.

It not only raises the friction slip point, but narrows it
as well. So if
you're racing and your goal is to pop the clutch as
quickly as possible, and
you have the pedal depressed just barely past the friction
point, the stiffer
clutch will make for a faster break off the line without
riding it at idle.
--scott

+1 :)

He who is Phil Kangas said on Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:15:24 -0500:

It not only raises the friction slip point, but narrows it
as well. So if
you're racing and your goal is to pop the clutch as
quickly as possible, and
you have the pedal depressed just barely past the friction
point, the stiffer
clutch will make for a faster break off the line without
riding it at idle.
--scott

+1 :)

Can someone summarize, for me, what a 900 foot pound OEM pressure plate
versus a 1200 foot pound pressure plate means, in real terms, for a 2WD
road vehicle that is not used for towing or for racing?

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 16:11:07 +0000 (UTC), harry newton
wrote:


Can someone summarize, for me, what a 900 foot pound OEM pressure plate
versus a 1200 foot pound pressure plate means, in real terms, for a 2WD
road vehicle that is not used for towing or for racing?


At this point - I suspect not.

On 11/15/2017 10:11 AM, harry newton wrote:
He who is Phil Kangas said on Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:15:24 -0500:

It not only raises the friction slip point, but narrows it as well.*
So if
you're racing and your goal is to pop the clutch as quickly as
possible, and
you have the pedal depressed just barely past the friction point,
the stiffer
clutch will make for a faster break off the line without riding it
at idle.
--scott

+1 :)

Can someone summarize, for me, what a 900 foot pound OEM pressure plate
versus a 1200 foot pound pressure plate means, in real terms, for a 2WD
road vehicle that is not used for towing or for racing?

* It means that your clutch will be slightly harder to push and hold .

* --

* Snag

harry newton wrote:
He who is Phil Kangas said on Wed, 15 Nov 2017 10:15:24 -0500:
It not only raises the friction slip point, but narrows it
as well. So if
you're racing and your goal is to pop the clutch as
quickly as possible, and
you have the pedal depressed just barely past the friction
point, the stiffer
clutch will make for a faster break off the line without
riding it at idle.

+1 :)

Can someone summarize, for me, what a 900 foot pound OEM pressure plate
versus a 1200 foot pound pressure plate means, in real terms, for a 2WD
road vehicle that is not used for towing or for racing?

A less sore leg.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

He who is Terry Coombs said on Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:18:18 -0600:

+AKA- It means that your clutch will be slightly harder to push and hold .

If that's all it means, in practical terms, then why do they sell it?
Is it just marketing (like high-octane fuel)?

Even high-octane fuel has a benefit for the cars that need it.
What's the expected benefit of a 1200 pound clutch over a 900 pound one?

That's all that Marlin Crawler sells, for example.

harry newton wrote:
He who is Terry Coombs said on Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:18:18 -0600:

+AKA- It means that your clutch will be slightly harder to push and hold .

If that's all it means, in practical terms, then why do they sell it?

Because a lot of people want to go fast, and half a second faster off the
line can mean the difference between first place and no prize at all.

Is it just marketing (like high-octane fuel)?

Even high-octane fuel has a benefit for the cars that need it.

It has a huge benefit because running 100LL lets you build engines with
way higher compression ratios than running street gasoline will. The
difference in horsepower is substantial.

What's the expected benefit of a 1200 pound clutch over a 900 pound one?

As I said in a previous post, being faster off the line.

That's all that Marlin Crawler sells, for example.

You want to race, you buy racing products. You want to tool around on
the streets, don't buy racing products.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 15 Nov 2017 17:40:20 -0500, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

harry newton wrote:
He who is Terry Coombs said on Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:18:18 -0600:

+AKA- It means that your clutch will be slightly harder to push and hold .

If that's all it means, in practical terms, then why do they sell it?

Because a lot of people want to go fast, and half a second faster off the
line can mean the difference between first place and no prize at all.

Is it just marketing (like high-octane fuel)?

Even high-octane fuel has a benefit for the cars that need it.

It has a huge benefit because running 100LL lets you build engines with
way higher compression ratios than running street gasoline will. The
difference in horsepower is substantial.

What's the expected benefit of a 1200 pound clutch over a 900 pound one?

As I said in a previous post, being faster off the line.

That's all that Marlin Crawler sells, for example.

You want to race, you buy racing products. You want to tool around on
the streets, don't buy racing products.
--scott
The big question is why are you sourcing general purpose street
machine parts from a performance rock crawler company????? The parts
they sel lare aimed at the extreme offroad market - NOT general
purpose street machines. Buy an OEM part from your local dealer or
parts jobber like Napa or whoever. You do not need or want competition
parts - they are not necessarily better parts for your application,
and most likely worse.

On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 20:48:01 +0000 (UTC), harry newton
wrote:

He who is Clare Snyder said on Tue, 14 Nov 2017 09:23:25 -0500:


Torque to yeild bolts are "stretched" when tightened and must be
replaced. I don't think I've ever replaced clutch bolts - would on a
drag car, but they use automatics almost exclusively today

I'm gonna get the bolts but I don't think I need them, as you explained.
I'll get them because (a) they're only 7 bucks, and (b) Toyota says to use
new bolts every time.

But I agree that I can re-use the old bolts too, so I'll forget about this
for now as *choosing my first clutch kit* is the more important goal.

1200 lb clutch will build your left thigh muscle in traffic and will
grip a little tighter. Basically a truck or race modification (Once
I'm movong I generally don't use the clutch)

I've been researching this on the side and I'm still confused, but one
thing I learned is that the torque from an engine is only about 300 foot
pounds or less (278 foot pounds according to this quick search):
https://www.google.com/search?&q=toyota+4runner+torque+specs

So what I don't get at all, is if an engine only generates 300 foot pounds
of torque, why would we even need a 900 foot pound pressure plate, given
that the ratio of the flywheel diameter to clutch plate diameter is fixed
at what? Almost 1 to 1? Or is it 2:1 or 3:1?

How does this math work that a 1200 foot pound clutch does ANYTHING useful?


PUT AN OEM CLUTCH IN THE DAMNED THING AND BE DONE WITH IT!!!

On 16/11/2017 12:18 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 20:48:01 +0000 (UTC), harry newton
wrote:

He who is Clare Snyder said on Tue, 14 Nov 2017 09:23:25 -0500:


Torque to yeild bolts are "stretched" when tightened and must be
replaced. I don't think I've ever replaced clutch bolts - would on a
drag car, but they use automatics almost exclusively today

I'm gonna get the bolts but I don't think I need them, as you explained.
I'll get them because (a) they're only 7 bucks, and (b) Toyota says to use
new bolts every time.

But I agree that I can re-use the old bolts too, so I'll forget about this
for now as *choosing my first clutch kit* is the more important goal.

1200 lb clutch will build your left thigh muscle in traffic and will
grip a little tighter. Basically a truck or race modification (Once
I'm movong I generally don't use the clutch)

I've been researching this on the side and I'm still confused, but one
thing I learned is that the torque from an engine is only about 300 foot
pounds or less (278 foot pounds according to this quick search):
https://www.google.com/search?&q=toyota+4runner+torque+specs

So what I don't get at all, is if an engine only generates 300 foot pounds
of torque, why would we even need a 900 foot pound pressure plate, given
that the ratio of the flywheel diameter to clutch plate diameter is fixed
at what? Almost 1 to 1? Or is it 2:1 or 3:1?

How does this math work that a 1200 foot pound clutch does ANYTHING useful?


PUT AN OEM CLUTCH IN THE DAMNED THING AND BE DONE WITH IT!!!

Seems like RS Wood in another guise.

--

Xeno

"Scott Dorsey"

You want to race, you buy racing products.
You want to tool around on
the streets, don't buy racing products.
--scott

Just remembered this saying from years ago..:

Jack be nimble, Jack be quick!
Beat that hydro with your stick!
On your car our bets ride!
Lose this race and its your hide!

He who is Clare Snyder said on Wed, 15 Nov 2017 20:18:57 -0500:

PUT AN OEM CLUTCH IN THE DAMNED THING AND BE DONE WITH IT!!!

Makes sense. I didn't know what I know now when I asked.

At this point, the right clutch kit is an Aisin 900 foot pound kit.

The 5-piece Aisin OEM kit is here for $170 (TDT-C-95-04-2.7)
http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/aisin-seco-clutch-kits.html

The best prices I can find at a Toyota dealer online is $225 sans the
alignment tool:
Required:
312503540084 - DISC $73.03
312103520084 - PRESSURE PLATE $93.21
903631200277 - PILOT BEARING $6.34
3123035091 - RELEASE BEARING $51.72

Optional:
1340575040 - FLYWHEEL $356.37
3120420071 - RELEASE FORK $26.72
1345320010 - RING GEAR $111.04

He who is Clare Snyder said on Wed, 15 Nov 2017 20:17:11 -0500:

The big question is why are you sourcing general purpose street
machine parts from a performance rock crawler company????? The parts
they sel lare aimed at the extreme offroad market - NOT general
purpose street machines. Buy an OEM part from your local dealer or
parts jobber like Napa or whoever. You do not need or want competition
parts - they are not necessarily better parts for your application,
and most likely worse.

This is good advice.

I want the BEST parts, which is why I was LOOKING at Marlin Crawler, but I
didn't know, until now, that they're just for specialty stuff.

You'll notice I use "good" quality stuff so that's all I had wanted.

I agree with you. Marlin Crawler is the wrong place to go.
Now the question is what's a good clutch.

The OEM is Aisin 900 pounds. Googling, I find plenty of substitutes.
I can pick - but I don't know how to pick a clutch kit?

What do I look for?
a. Steel springs?
b. Friction material?
c. What?

He who is Scott Dorsey said on 15 Nov 2017 17:40:20 -0500:

If that's all it means, in practical terms, then why do they sell it?

Because a lot of people want to go fast, and half a second faster off the
line can mean the difference between first place and no prize at all.

OK. That makes sense in racing, where a split second clutch engagement is
meaningful. So if it's speed of engagement, I'm ok with that as a benefit.

But it's not needed on the road - so why couldn't Marlin Crawler just say
so when I asked?

Even high-octane fuel has a benefit for the cars that need it.

It has a huge benefit because running 100LL lets you build engines with
way higher compression ratios than running street gasoline will. The
difference in horsepower is substantial.

No no no. What I meant is that for an engine that is already designed to
use 87AKI (or whatever the anti-knock index is in your country), using
92AKI isn't going to do anything if the engine is running to spec.

It's just a waste of money.
Just like this 1200 pound pressure plate seems to be.


What's the expected benefit of a 1200 pound clutch over a 900 pound one?

As I said in a previous post, being faster off the line.

Thanks. What I like about that answer is that it follows logic.
I love logic.

That's all that Marlin Crawler sells, for example.

You want to race, you buy racing products. You want to tool around on
the streets, don't buy racing products.

I don't know Marlin Crawler stuff at all, so I don't automatically
associate them with racing. I just associate them with Toyota aftermarket.

He who is harry newton said on Thu, 16 Nov 2017 06:14:50 +0000 (UTC):

The OEM is Aisin 900 pounds. Googling, I find plenty of substitutes.
I can pick - but I don't know how to pick a clutch kit?

I think I'll go for this $200 Aisin kit, which coupled with the $200 I
paid for the transmission jack and additional 1/2-inch socket extender
bars, which makes the entire transmission job cost only about $400 which
isn't bad.
http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/aisin-seco-clutch-kits.html

There may be other parts involved, but I won't know until I take it apart
and post back with details.

He who is harry newton said on Tue, 14 Nov 2017 00:36:19 +0000 (UTC):

1. What's the practical difference between a 900 & 1200 foot pound pressure
plate? (yes, I know, 300 foot pounds).
2. Do you bother replacing non torque to yield pressure plate bolts?
3. Do you change the teeth spacing in your flywheel?

SOLVED.

Q: What's the difference between 1200# & 900# pressure plate?
A: Nothing practical. 1200 engages faster for racing purposes.

Q: Do you bother replacing pressure plate bolts?
A: Nope. Just loc-tite red.

Q: What about the flywheel?
A: Just have it machined if it's scored. Otherwise keep it.

Q: What's a good kit to get for an on-road Toyota?
A: Not the $300 Aisin Marlin Crawler kit.
A: Maybe the $170 Aisin lowrangeoffroad kit is better?
A: OEM costs about twice that at the best dealer (and no alignment tool).

Clare Snyder posted for all of us...



On 15 Nov 2017 17:40:20 -0500, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

harry newton wrote:
He who is Terry Coombs said on Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:18:18 -0600:

+AKA- It means that your clutch will be slightly harder to push and hold .

If that's all it means, in practical terms, then why do they sell it?

Because a lot of people want to go fast, and half a second faster off the
line can mean the difference between first place and no prize at all.

Is it just marketing (like high-octane fuel)?

Even high-octane fuel has a benefit for the cars that need it.

It has a huge benefit because running 100LL lets you build engines with
way higher compression ratios than running street gasoline will. The
difference in horsepower is substantial.

What's the expected benefit of a 1200 pound clutch over a 900 pound one?

As I said in a previous post, being faster off the line.

That's all that Marlin Crawler sells, for example.

You want to race, you buy racing products. You want to tool around on
the streets, don't buy racing products.
--scott
The big question is why are you sourcing general purpose street
machine parts from a performance rock crawler company????? The parts
they sel lare aimed at the extreme offroad market - NOT general
purpose street machines. Buy an OEM part from your local dealer or
parts jobber like Napa or whoever. You do not need or want competition
parts - they are not necessarily better parts for your application,
and most likely worse.

+1 and gaining

--
Tekkie

Clare Snyder posted for all of us...



On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 20:48:01 +0000 (UTC), harry newton
wrote:

He who is Clare Snyder said on Tue, 14 Nov 2017 09:23:25 -0500:


Torque to yeild bolts are "stretched" when tightened and must be
replaced. I don't think I've ever replaced clutch bolts - would on a
drag car, but they use automatics almost exclusively today

I'm gonna get the bolts but I don't think I need them, as you explained.
I'll get them because (a) they're only 7 bucks, and (b) Toyota says to use
new bolts every time.

But I agree that I can re-use the old bolts too, so I'll forget about this
for now as *choosing my first clutch kit* is the more important goal.

1200 lb clutch will build your left thigh muscle in traffic and will
grip a little tighter. Basically a truck or race modification (Once
I'm movong I generally don't use the clutch)

I've been researching this on the side and I'm still confused, but one
thing I learned is that the torque from an engine is only about 300 foot
pounds or less (278 foot pounds according to this quick search):
https://www.google.com/search?&q=toyota+4runner+torque+specs

So what I don't get at all, is if an engine only generates 300 foot pounds
of torque, why would we even need a 900 foot pound pressure plate, given
that the ratio of the flywheel diameter to clutch plate diameter is fixed
at what? Almost 1 to 1? Or is it 2:1 or 3:1?

How does this math work that a 1200 foot pound clutch does ANYTHING useful?


PUT AN OEM CLUTCH IN THE DAMNED THING AND BE DONE WITH IT!!!

Still gaining

--
Tekkie

Xeno posted for all of us...



On 16/11/2017 12:18 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 20:48:01 +0000 (UTC), harry newton
wrote:

He who is Clare Snyder said on Tue, 14 Nov 2017 09:23:25 -0500:


Torque to yeild bolts are "stretched" when tightened and must be
replaced. I don't think I've ever replaced clutch bolts - would on a
drag car, but they use automatics almost exclusively today

I'm gonna get the bolts but I don't think I need them, as you explained.
I'll get them because (a) they're only 7 bucks, and (b) Toyota says to use
new bolts every time.

But I agree that I can re-use the old bolts too, so I'll forget about this
for now as *choosing my first clutch kit* is the more important goal.

1200 lb clutch will build your left thigh muscle in traffic and will
grip a little tighter. Basically a truck or race modification (Once
I'm movong I generally don't use the clutch)

I've been researching this on the side and I'm still confused, but one
thing I learned is that the torque from an engine is only about 300 foot
pounds or less (278 foot pounds according to this quick search):
https://www.google.com/search?&q=toyota+4runner+torque+specs

So what I don't get at all, is if an engine only generates 300 foot pounds
of torque, why would we even need a 900 foot pound pressure plate, given
that the ratio of the flywheel diameter to clutch plate diameter is fixed
at what? Almost 1 to 1? Or is it 2:1 or 3:1?

How does this math work that a 1200 foot pound clutch does ANYTHING useful?


PUT AN OEM CLUTCH IN THE DAMNED THING AND BE DONE WITH IT!!!

Seems like RS Wood in another guise.

I think this is the valve stem thread poster under a different nym.

--
Tekkie