Can you help with technical and legal background information on how to use
a True-Type copyrighted font correctly with laypeople and printers?

Two areas of concern where I ask advice based on your experience:
1. Technical (how do I embed the TT font in PowerPoint 2007?)
2. Legal (what am I supposed to do for copyright stuff?)

Specifically on the technical, I just want to embed the font into PPT 2007:
A. When I modify a multi-page PowerPoint with custom signs, it looks good.
B. But when I send that PowerPoint to neighbors the fonts are all jumbled.
C. I have "RoadGeek 2005 Series B" TT fonts, but I can't expect them to
load fonts so I just want the font to be embedded inside the the editable
Powerpoint file (where everyone has Powerpoint on either a Mac or Windows).
http://texaphoto.com/fonts/roadgeek-...eries-3-b.html

Specifically on the legal, I just want to be legally correct:
a. This page tries to explain the legal requirements.
https://www.onlinewebfonts.com/downl...1beacfc13bb8b3
b. It says something about "css" notifications as shown below.
c. I have no idea what that means in terms of the editable PowerPoint 2007.

In summary, I ask for your advice on two questions.
Q1: How do I embed a TT font into PowerPoint 2007 for others to edit, and,
Q2: What is this "css" legal stuff and I do I comply with it in PPT 2007?

--
Note that PDF is not in the picture, nor are screenshots, as the need is to
edit this Powerpoint 2007 file forever over time as needed by various
individuals.

On 09/08/2017 01:45 PM, Chaya Eve wrote:
Can you help with technical and legal background information on how to use
a True-Type copyrighted font correctly with laypeople and printers?

Legally you can't unless the font publisher allows it.

Have you searched the web for a similar copyright-free font so you can avoid all this nonsense? You could have everyone design with the free font and then you could substitute your legally
purchased version when the document is finished and sent to the publisher.

The commercial printer may need to purchase the font as well.

On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 18:07:06 -0400, scofflaw wrote:

Can you help with technical and legal background information on how to use
a True-Type copyrighted font correctly with laypeople and printers?

Legally you can't unless the font publisher allows it.

Have you searched the web for a similar copyright-free font so you can avoid all this nonsense? You could have everyone design with the free font and then you could substitute your legally
purchased version when the document is finished and sent to the publisher.

The commercial printer may need to purchase the font as well.

To clarify the font issue for non-commercial use in road signs,
much has been written about the subject of choosing roadsign fonts:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/ma...12fonts-t.html

The current standard USA sign font is (still) Gothic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_Gothic

More than a decade ago the choice was either Gothic or Clearview:

https://typographica.org/on-typograp...r-us-highways/

Where Clearview began to be phased in around 2002:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearview_(typeface)

However Clearview was discontinued due to issues:
http://news.averydennison.com/blog/h...nt-refuses-die

Today, the best public font for road signs is:
https://store.typenetwork.com/foundr...ies/interstate

However, that font is not a free font; but legally free fonts exist.
https://www.onlinewebfonts.com/search?q=roadgeek

Specifically I have chosen the free "Roadgeek 2005 Series B" narrow font:
http://www.fontspace.com/michael-d-adams/roadgeek-2005

Download the desired free font ("Roadside Series B Regular") he
https://www.onlinewebfonts.com/downl...1beacfc13bb8b3

Determine the license agreement, where the license says:
"This font may be freely distributed and used provided copyright
notifications remain intact."

The copyright notification says:
"Copyright (c) Michael D. Adams, 2005. All rights reserved."

Look up how to embed the fonts into Windows PowerPoint 2007:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...-in-powerpoint

Check for compatibility issues with Mac PowerPoint 2007:
http://www.pptfaq.com/FAQ00076_Embedding_fonts.htm

The line of interest on embedding compatibility in that summary is:
"Mac versions of PowerPoint can't embed fonts or use fonts that have been
embedded by a Windows version of PowerPoint."

The line of interest in the copyright notice is:
"This font may be freely distributed and used provided copyright
notifications remain intact"

The questions, as stated in the original post, are only about:
Q1: Embedding a specific font into both Mac & Windows PowerPoint 2007.
Q2: Complying with the legal agreement that the copyright remain intact.

On 09/08/2017 11:15 PM, Chaya Eve wrote:
The questions, as stated in the original post, are only about:
Q1: Embedding a specific font into both Mac & Windows PowerPoint 2007.


Welcome to the world of desktop publishing. Your headache is just beginning.
My advice, pick an OS, pick your software and make certain it is compatible with your commercial printer or sign company.


Q2: Complying with the legal agreement that the copyright remain intact.


More than one ad agency has been bankrupted by the Software Police so contact the font publisher and have your credit card handy. Otherwise, use a free font.

On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 10:54:55 -0400, Bob Font bob.font@typefaces-r-us.$$$
wrote:
pick an OS, pick your software and make certain it is compatible
with your commercial printer or sign company.

We found out that Windows PowerPoint can embed fonts but PowerPoint on the
Mac can't see those Windows-embedded fonts, and that Mac PowerPoint can't
embed fonts.

What is irksome is that Microswoft literally lies by not telling us that on
their support site, despite the fact that they KNOW this through & through.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...-in-powerpoint

It would be helpful if other people (not just me) would paste into the
suggestion box at that site to just tell the truth, which is described here
and which covers ALL PowerPoint versions on the Mac including 2017.
http://www.pptfaq.com/FAQ00076_Embedding_fonts.htm

The line of interest on embedding compatibility in that summary is:
"Mac versions of PowerPoint can't embed fonts or use fonts that have been
embedded by a Windows version of PowerPoint."

Otherwise, use a free font.

The "Roadgeek 2005 Series B" font "is" a free font, specifically designed
for road signs, whose purpose is exactly what I'm using it for.
http://www.fontspace.com/michael-d-adams/roadgeek-2005

The legal requirement is that the letters be two inches in height (and that
the sign area be at least one square foot).
http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...ctionNum= 602

We could buy standard signs but we are making our own as a school and
community joint project.
http://www.placer.ca.gov/~/media/srf...QUIREMENTS.pdf

The only requirement is to keep the copyright notice intact when
distributing the font. We have no idea if "embedding" is the same as
"distributing" though since they mostly speak of distributing by web pages.
"Copyright (c) Michael D. Adams, 2005. All rights reserved."

The font is apparently under a Creative Commons "BY" license:
https://wiki.creativecommons.org/wik...or_attribution
https://wiki.creativecommons.org/wik...h_a_CC_license
https://wiki.creativecommons.org/wik...NC_adaptations

In the summary of what I found out in the past two days, there's no problem
with PowerPoint on Windows following Micrsosoft instructions but Microsoft
lied by not telling us that Mac PowerPoint isn't compatible with Windows
PowerPoint font embedding and worse, the instructions for embedding fonts
won't work on a Mac with any version of Microsoft Office Power Point.

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, comp.sys.mac.apps, & rec.photo.digital ...
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/11/chaya0.jpg

We found:
* The Mac can't embed the font in PowerPoint, and,
* The Mac can't even read an embedded front in PowerPoint, and,
* The Mac doesn't ship with a road-sign font native.

On the other hand:
* Windows can embed any font we choose into the PowerPoint, and,
* Windows can read any PowerPoint with the font already embedded, and,
* Windows (recently) ships with a road-sign font native.

The best free road-sign font choices seem to be the following:
* Good: Roadgeek (USA-standard copy)
http://www.fontspace.com/michael-d-adams/roadgeek-2005
* Better: Gothic (USA standard)
http://www.dafont.com/highway-gothic.font
* Best: Bahnschrift DIN 1451 (German standard)
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexp...uild-16273-pc/

All are free road-sign specific fonts which can be embedded into Windows
PowerPoint so that the document itself just works on all Windows machines
with MS Office on them (whether or not the user has the latest Windows
version).

Here are some samples in our tests with the RoadGeek Narrow Series B font:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/11/chaya1.jpg
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/11/chaya2.jpg
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/11/chaya3.jpg
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/11/chaya4.jpg
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/11/chaya5.jpg
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/11/chaya6.jpg
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/11/chaya7.jpg

The Windows functionality/compatibility goal has been solved.
Now we only have to solve the functionality/compatibility problem for Mac.

Do any Mac experts know of a road-sign font that exists native on the Mac?

Do any Mac experts know of a road-sign font that exists native on the Mac?

We found that the Mac comes with a DIN font that is much like the European
DIN 1451, just as Windows 10 comes with a DIN-like Bahnschrift font.

As for the signs, I bought a few road sign blanks for this project where I
found that they're all aluminum, painted white, pre-punched, and anywhere
from 0.100" of an inch thick to 0.060" thick.

I found the 0.100" signs couldn't be easily bent by hand where the 0.060"
signs were sturdy enough but you can bend them by hand if you use enough
force.

If you're expecting vandals, then the thicker signs probably will be better
but for just withstanding the weather, the thinner signs seem to appear to
be fine.

Has your experience with aluminum sign thickness been similar?
Or do you recommend thicker than 0.100" or thinner than 0.060"?

On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 18:07:06 -0400, scofflaw wrote:

Have you searched the web for a similar copyright-free font so you can avoid all this nonsense?

We covered the font issue in extreme detail over here last week:
- https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec....A/FCyiDz1TAQAJ

Roadsign fonts are tested under real-world conditions for specific things
such as halation, night-time and speed legibility (especially when tight
interstices are involved), cutout-integrity, removal of tiny notches in
joints of the letterforms, negative spacing compactness (affecting
legibility of signs in negative-contrast color orientations), common
symbols, etc., all resulting in an increase in accuracy, viewing distance,
and reaction time.

The official USA roadsign font is "Highway Gothic"

Another previously-official US roadsign font is "Clearview"
A common USA Gothic-look-alike freely distributable font is "Roadgeek"

In Europe, and specifically in Germany, the road sign font is "DIN 1451"
The Mac ships native with a DIN-1451-look-alike font named "DIN".
The latest Windows ships with a DIN-look-alike font named "Bahnschrift"

Windows MS Office can embed the entire font set which works for Windows.
Mac MS Office can¢t embed fonts & can¢t read embedded fonts.
The Mac has an issue seeing the DIN font (see the Usenet url for details).
Sierra
- https://support.apple.com/HT206872
Maverick:
- https://support.apple.com/HT201375
- http://www.jklstudios.com/misc/osxfonts.html

Highway Gothic fonts are available at cost he
- https://www.myfonts.com/fonts/pixymbols/highway-gothic/
Highway Gothic seems to be available for free he
- http://www.dafont.com/highway-gothic.font
Clearview is only available at cost (AFAIK):
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearview_(typeface)
Roadgeek is available online for free in many places, for example he
- http://www.fontspace.com/michael-d-adams/roadgeek-2005

If you know more about the fonts than the summary above, please respond so
that we can learn from what you've experienced.

On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 18:17:13 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

For the UK, see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_(typeface)

Thanks for improving our combined tribal knowledge on road sign fonts.
Here's an updated summary which includes your input!

Road sign fonts are tested under real-world conditions for specific things
such as halation, night-time and speed legibility (especially when tight
interstices are involved), cutout-integrity, removal of tiny notches in
joints of the letterforms, negative spacing compactness (affecting
legibility of signs in negative-contrast color orientations), common
symbols, etc., all resulting in an increase in accuracy, viewing distance,
and reaction time.

According to this Usenet thread:
*https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec....A/FCyiDz1TAQAJ
The official USA roadsign font is (still)"Highway Gothic"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_Gothic
Another recently used but then deprecatedUS roadsign font is "Clearview"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearview_(typeface)
A common USA Gothic-look-alike freely distributable font is "Roadgeek"
http://www.fontspace.com/michael-d-adams/roadgeek-2005

In Germany (& much of Europe) the road sign font is "DIN 1451"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_1451
The Mac ships native with a DIN-1451-look-alike font named "DIN".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...uded_with_OS_X
The latest Windows ships with a DIN-look-alike font named "Bahnschrift"
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexp...uild-16273-pc/
In the UK, the commonly used road sign font is named "Transport"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_(typeface)

Windows MS Office can embed the entire font set which works for Windows.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...-in-powerpoint
Mac MS Office can¢t embed fonts & can¢t read embedded fonts.
http://www.jklstudios.com/misc/osxfonts.html
The Mac has an issue seeing the DIN font (see the Usenet url for details).
Sierra https://support.apple.com/HT206872
Mavericks: https://support.apple.com/HT201375

Highway Gothic fonts are available at cost he
https://www.myfonts.com/fonts/pixymbols/highway-gothic/
Highway Gothic seems to be available for free he
http://www.dafont.com/highway-gothic.font
Clearview is only available at cost (AFAIK):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearview_(typeface)
Roadgeek is available online for free in many places, for example he
http://www.fontspace.com/michael-d-adams/roadgeek-2005

Please let us know if you know of more related road sign font information

On Thu, 14 Sep 2017 22:09:55 -0600, "Andre G. Isaak"
wrote:

The official USA roadsign font is FHWA Series Gothic which isn't
commercially available. Highway Gothic is a name given to various
knock-offs.

Another previously-official US roadsign font is "Clearview"
A common USA Gothic-look-alike freely distributable font is "Roadgeek"

In Europe, and specifically in Germany, the road sign font is "DIN 1451"
The Mac ships native with a DIN-1451-look-alike font named "DIN".

That's not a "look-alike". It's the actual font.

The latest Windows ships with a DIN-look-alike font named "Bahnschrift"

Windows MS Office can embed the entire font set which works for Windows.

Your earlier post suggested that Bahnschrift wasn't yet included but
would be in future. If that is correct then whether it can be embedded
remains to be seen. PowerPoint on windows can embed TrueType fonts, but
only if the flag in the OS/2 table allows it. It sounds like your
project requires editable embedding which is less commonly allowed than
read-only embedding.

Wow. Thanks for those accurate clarifications!

I don't know how to test the embedding on the latest Windows 10 because I
don't have it - but it's great information for the many Windows experts
here that in the "Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 16273", the inclusion of
Bahnschrift DIN-1451-look-alike fonts may or may not be embeddable.

I have included your clarification suggestions in the reference page of the
PowerPoint document for the school, where I reflect those improvements
below as a summary of tribal knowledge for someone reading this in the
future via Dejagoogle links.

Road sign fonts are tested under real-world conditions for specific things
such as halation, night-time and speed legibility (especially when tight
interstices are involved), cutout-integrity, removal of tiny notches in
joints of the letterforms, negative spacing compactness (affecting
legibility of signs in negative-contrast color orientations), common
symbols, etc., all resulting in an increase in accuracy, viewing distance,
and reaction time.

According to this Usenet thread:
.. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec....A/FCyiDz1TAQAJ
The official USA roadsign font is FHWA Series Gothic which isn't
commercially available.
.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_Gothic
Another recently used but then deprecated US road sign font is ¡Clearview¢
.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearview_(typeface)
A common USA Gothic-look-alike freely distributable font is ¡Roadgeek¢
.. http://www.fontspace.com/michael-d-adams/roadgeek-2005

In Germany (& parts of Continental Europe), they use ¡DIN 1451¢
.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_1451
The Mac ships native with that actual font, simply named¡DIN¢¢
.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...uded_with_OS_X
The latest Win10 ships with a DIN-look-alike font named ¡Bahnschrift¢
(which may or may not be embeddable)
.. https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexp...uild-16273-pc/
In the UK, the commonly used road sign font is named ¡Transport¢
.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_(typeface)

Windows MS Office can embed the entire font set which works for Windows.
.. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...-in-powerpoint
Mac MS Office can not embed fonts & also can not read embedded fonts.
.. http://www.jklstudios.com/misc/osxfonts.html
The Mac also has an issue seeing the DIN font (see the Usenet url for
complete details).
.. Sierra https://support.apple.com/HT206872
.. Mavericks: https://support.apple.com/HT201375

Highway Gothic look-alike fonts are available at cost he
.. https://www.myfonts.com/fonts/pixymbols/highway-gothic/
Highway Gothic look-alike fonts seem to be available for free he
.. http://www.dafont.com/highway-gothic.font
Clearview is only available at cost (AFAIK):
.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearview_(typeface)
Roadgeek is available online for free in many places, for example he
.. http://www.fontspace.com/michael-d-adams/roadgeek-2005

Any and all clarifications and improvements are welcome to help everyone.