replying to Ed Pawlowski, Iggy wrote:
Yep, they seem like good deals and maybe they even turn out to be. But, your
old stuff lasted 20-years or more, was more energy efficient and you knew and
could trust that it would last. That ain't today at all. I have a 30-year old
refrigerator that's still running perfect and my brother's on his 3rd new
fridge for just the last decade. I've had many same experiences with much
older appliances still outlasting new ones.

You can even look at it as what's the better value or more environmentally
friendly, now that we're told we're the problem. While, our Masters waste and
waste and waste and make us pay for their waste. So when's it end? With your
children's grandchildren or the real WW3 or once we're locked up in our Worker
Apartment?

Why work pointless jobs until we're almost dead and be required to have saved,
at least, a million dollars to live out our diseased days? The original
question is just a symptom.

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On Friday, August 25, 2017 at 10:14:09 PM UTC-4, Iggy wrote:
replying to Ed Pawlowski, Iggy wrote:
Yep, they seem like good deals and maybe they even turn out to be. But, your
old stuff lasted 20-years or more, was more energy efficient

More evidence that you're totally clueless. Whether it's a window AC,
central AC, refrigerator, freezer, furnace, etc, they are all way more
efficient than they were 20+ years ago.

On 8/25/17 9:14 PM, Iggy wrote:
replying to Ed Pawlowski, Iggy wrote:
Yep, they seem like good deals and maybe they even turn out to be. But,
your
old stuff lasted 20-years or more, was more energy efficient

I don't see how you can claim things were more energy efficient
back when.
Old houses had wooden siding, studs, then plaster. No insulation
in the walls or above the ceilings.
Compare the old tube tvs with the modern ones. It seemed like
the tv repairman was always out at our farm changing tubes. The
channel selector had something like 13 choices. Black and white, not
color tv.
Cars today get a lot better gas mileage. Somewhere in the mid
teens/mile was common. Now it's in the upper 20s/mile. A car used to
be on its way down after 100,000 miles or so. Now they're just well
broken in.
I just added some lights to my trike. The two added LEDs in front
together draw 9 watts, yet outshine the high beam headlight that draws
55 watts. Look at the lighting on semis. The vast majority have LEDs
now. It looks like the trucking companies are retrofitting them to the
trailers.
There's a website, Carpe Diem, written by Mark J. Perry. He's
written a couple articles in the past comparing typical household items
past and present. The hours we work to buy the modern versions is
typically a lot less than in the past.
One article is he
http://www.aei.org/publication/home-appliances-good-old-days-now-theyre-cheaper-better-energy-efficient-ever/
or http://alturl.com/e8rzi
There are more articles there on the subject. Go to the site
http://www.aei.org/publication/blog/carpe-diem/ and search there
for hours worked for an appliance.
Search is right above the guy's head.

Cut rest.

On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 9:19:44 AM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 8/25/17 9:14 PM, Iggy wrote:
replying to Ed Pawlowski, Iggy wrote:
Yep, they seem like good deals and maybe they even turn out to be. But,
your
old stuff lasted 20-years or more, was more energy efficient

I don't see how you can claim things were more energy efficient
back when.

It's easy, he's obviously a complete moron. Ed's example of an old
window AC from the 60s was what started it. They were so heavy it
took two people to lift. They cost $150 back then, which would be like
what? $800 in today's dollars? And I'm sure they used 50% or 100%
more electricity than today's units. Now you can get a unit for
$100 to $150, it's half the weight, uses a fraction of the electricity.
The only remaining issue is how long they last? They may not last
as long, IDK, but if they only last half as long, it's still one hell
of a better deal. And not many people want an appliance to last
20 or 30 years. If you paid twice as much for an window AC 25 years
ago because it would last longer, are you better off? Now they have
ones that use less electricity, have wireless remote controls, look better,
are quieter, and cost less in constant dollars.





Old houses had wooden siding, studs, then plaster. No insulation
in the walls or above the ceilings.
Compare the old tube tvs with the modern ones. It seemed like
the tv repairman was always out at our farm changing tubes. The
channel selector had something like 13 choices. Black and white, not
color tv.
Cars today get a lot better gas mileage. Somewhere in the mid
teens/mile was common. Now it's in the upper 20s/mile. A car used to
be on its way down after 100,000 miles or so. Now they're just well
broken in.
I just added some lights to my trike. The two added LEDs in front
together draw 9 watts, yet outshine the high beam headlight that draws
55 watts. Look at the lighting on semis. The vast majority have LEDs
now. It looks like the trucking companies are retrofitting them to the
trailers.
There's a website, Carpe Diem, written by Mark J. Perry. He's
written a couple articles in the past comparing typical household items
past and present. The hours we work to buy the modern versions is
typically a lot less than in the past.
One article is he
http://www.aei.org/publication/home-appliances-good-old-days-now-theyre-cheaper-better-energy-efficient-ever/
or http://alturl.com/e8rzi
There are more articles there on the subject. Go to the site
http://www.aei.org/publication/blog/carpe-diem/ and search there
for hours worked for an appliance.
Search is right above the guy's head.

Cut rest.

On 8/26/2017 9:19 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

Â*Â*Â*Â* Compare the old tube tvs with the modern ones.Â*Â* It seemed like
the tv repairman was always out at our farm changing tubes.Â*Â* The
channel selector had something like 13 choices.Â*Â*Â* Black and white,Â* not
color tv.

We used to take them to the Pep Boys store where they had a tube tester.
I'd take six tubes and usually found one to be bad. TV repair was a
good career back then.


Â*Â*Â* Cars today get a lot better gas mileage.Â* Somewhere in the mid
teens/mile was common.Â* Now it's in the upper 20s/mile.Â*Â*Â* A car used to
be on its way down after 100,000 miles or so.Â* Now they're just well
broken in.

Early 50's cars would often get rings and bearings at 50k miles. Spark
plugs cleaned at 5k and replaced at 10k. Oil changes more frequent too.

On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 9:49:56 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/26/2017 9:19 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

Â*Â*Â*Â* Compare the old tube tvs with the modern ones..Â*Â* It seemed like
the tv repairman was always out at our farm changing tubes.Â*Â* The
channel selector had something like 13 choices.Â*Â*Â* Black and white,Â* not
color tv.

We used to take them to the Pep Boys store where they had a tube tester.
I'd take six tubes and usually found one to be bad. TV repair was a
good career back then.


Â*Â*Â* Cars today get a lot better gas mileage.Â* Somewhere in the mid
teens/mile was common.Â* Now it's in the upper 20s/mile.Â*Â*Â* A car used to
be on its way down after 100,000 miles or so.Â* Now they're just well
broken in.

Early 50's cars would often get rings and bearings at 50k miles. Spark
plugs cleaned at 5k and replaced at 10k. Oil changes more frequent too.

Don;t forget points, condensers, and timing too. I have software
for the BMW, can hook a PC up to it, and read out all kinds of
diagnostic and performance data. The engine computer even
identifies which cylinder is misfiring, based on the slight difference
of crankshaft speed that's expected as a cylinder fires, I think
that's been typical in new cars for quite awhile now.

The downside is that a lot of feature stuff that is added to these
cars, which is nice while it's under warranty or the early years
of the cars, must be real headaches later on for longer term
owners. Features like headlights that change the aiming dynamically
for example.

replying to Dean Hoffman, Iggy wrote:
Well, I've had 100-year old brick and stone houses with no insulation and
they'd stay comfortable for the entire 1st day of a heat wave. My old 26" TV
(no, not tube, geez) ran at 40-watts and until , maybe, 2-years ago (tops) did
the new stuff drop below 80-watts and much more. I had an 80's Mustang and
Subaru GL that got 20+ mpg's and only a few today meet or beat them. I got
300,000 miles out of each with almost no failures and a new car can just have
computer problems for hundreds of dollars repeatedly.

Total nonsense article by an idiot that's selling ridiculous hype of LIES!
Where's the "Miracle Electric Motor or Compressor"? Sorry but, any and all
advances are in just a 10% (IF THAT) improvement. Scroll Compressor's aren't
even in much of anything and they don't last. Yes, the insulation of
refrigerators, ovens and dishwashers had some effect, but no it's nothing like
that absurd article...according to my electric bill's actual usage.

And where's the longevity, to get back to my point. Longevity's nowhere to
anything long. AND, today's crap has to be replaced in order to be cost
effective. If you can't fix it yourself, you're shelling out hundreds on a
piece of 2 to 5-year old crap that's going to break something else next month.
Don't even get me started on the front load washer jokes.

--
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replying to trader_4, Iggy wrote:
Assuming and Guessing, is not "sure". I've actually measured and also
calculated (watts x amps) old vs. new. And, outside of thicker insulation
items, there was no major improvement and even no improvement. In fact, Flat
Panel TV's ran at 160 to 350-watts, much worse than even projection TV's. What
about the first DECADE of Flat Panel TV's that would blow out in 6-months and
no-one was honoring warranties?

"A fraction" of the electricity. I'm sorry, please tell the world about this
CLEARLY unknown by ALL manufacturers re-invention of the Electric Motor or
Compressor. No, Scroll Compressors aren't in much of anything, even yet, and
they don't last = more short-lived garbage.

--
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On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 12:14:07 PM UTC-4, Iggy wrote:
replying to trader_4, Iggy wrote:
Assuming and Guessing, is not "sure". I've actually measured and also
calculated (watts x amps) old vs. new.

Yes, I'm sure you've been documenting that since the 60s, ROFL
And for the record, power is not just watts times amps, which
doesn't reflect power factor, which unless it's a purely resistive
load, matters. And it matters a lot for motors, switching power
supplies, etc.




And, outside of thicker insulation
items, there was no major improvement and even no improvement. In fact, Flat
Panel TV's ran at 160 to 350-watts, much worse than even projection TV's.


Pull up some specs for today's typical TVs idiot, instead of talking
about projection TVs. And compare it size for size with a tube color
TV from the 60s. A 27" TV today pulls a fraction of the electricty
that honking hot tube set did. Even large screen TVs pull less.


What
about the first DECADE of Flat Panel TV's that would blow out in 6-months and
no-one was honoring warranties?

What about the Hindenburg? Edsel?





"A fraction" of the electricity. I'm sorry, please tell the world about this
CLEARLY unknown by ALL manufacturers re-invention of the Electric Motor or
Compressor. No, Scroll Compressors aren't in much of anything, even yet, and
they don't last = more short-lived garbage.


Re-invent? No. But just like with cars that used to get 10 MPG and now
get 30 MPG, there has been significant improvement. But feel free to
believe whatever.

replying to trader_4, Iggy wrote:
Actually, it Volts x Amps, but you failed the test. No, I didn't test
everything ever, I tested my old stuff against the new...referenced in my
previous comments, which you read.

All the new Major Appliances do that may have a tiny efficiency improvement
(1%) is that they make stuff cheaper or a put thermostatic kill switch in.
Less mass to start moving and shuts itself completely down. At the price of
quality and longevity. And we stupidly accept the forced obsolescence as
"advancement".

Yep, there are more and more manufacturer's finally switching to more energy
efficient LED's (17-years late), but they weren't there until this year or
maybe just last year. And what happened to LED bulbs? They started out at
100,000-hours and then got chopped by 20,000 a year to now only be good for
10,000-hours. I have CFL's that are 20,000-hours from 1998, they have already
beaten today's LED's by a long shot.

Sorry but, I couldn't let your fractional comment just go unanswered. That was
more nuts than me. And please don't be so absurd to throw a singular Titanic
into the mix when we're talking about hundreds of millions or a whole mountain
range of landfill generated by the idiocy of the slave race known as
humanity...the dumbest species on the planet.

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On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 4:44:09 PM UTC-4, Iggy wrote:
replying to trader_4, Iggy wrote:
Actually, it Volts x Amps, but you failed the test.

What I meant was you can't just read amps and volts with a meter,
multiply and compute power, unless it's a purely resistive load. Motors,
switching power supplies, etc are not resistive loads.




No, I didn't test
everything ever, I tested my old stuff against the new...referenced in my
previous comments, which you read.

All the new Major Appliances do that may have a tiny efficiency improvement
(1%) is that they make stuff cheaper or a put thermostatic kill switch in.
Less mass to start moving and shuts itself completely down. At the price of
quality and longevity. And we stupidly accept the forced obsolescence as
"advancement".


Who should I believe? You or my lying eyes and the spec sheets?
I suppose cars still get about the same MPG as they did 50 years ago too.



Yep, there are more and more manufacturer's finally switching to more energy
efficient LED's (17-years late), but they weren't there until this year or
maybe just last year.

LCD TVs have been energy efficient for years. Compare a 27" LCD TV
to a 27" color tube set from the 60s. And again, the example that
started this was AC, there has been a huge improvement in AC
efficiency. I changed out my 25 year old AC a few years back, my
summer electric bills dropped nearly in half.



And what happened to LED bulbs? They started out at
100,000-hours and then got chopped by 20,000 a year to now only be good for
10,000-hours. I have CFL's that are 20,000-hours from 1998, they have already
beaten today's LED's by a long shot.

And then you proceed to give another example that totally shoot your
BS argument. Why are you using those CFLs instead of incandescents
shich were available 50, 30 years ago? You said there were no
improvements in energy efficiency.




Sorry but, I couldn't let your fractional comment just go unanswered. That was
more nuts than me. And please don't be so absurd to throw a singular Titanic
into the mix when we're talking about hundreds of millions or a whole mountain
range of landfill generated by the idiocy of the slave race known as
humanity...the dumbest species on the planet.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...g-1142088-.htm

I have to admit, you are an example of one incredibly stupid human.

replying to trader_4, Iggy wrote:
I just answered your line of thinking is all. Like, CFL's are just smaller FL
tubes. Even the Circular FL are older than me and yes they were and are a
great improvement. I'm not saying fire is king. My point is to free humanity
from its daily enslavement. Why pay each other when we could just work for
each others enjoyment of life and not have these pointless distractions,
products and industries. Having just what's best and longest lasting, designed
to be scalable with extremely minor pieces of improvement to simply bolt-on,
screw-in and insert.

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