One of my great Grandsons acquired a beater, 2001, Dodge Ram 1500
pick-up to use while away at university.

He brought it over for help with electrical issues; blower didn't
work, wipers didn't work, one headlight was much brighter than the
other, etc.

My first reaction was, there must be one or more bad grounds. I
tested the theory by using a beefy set of jumper cables to securely
ground several of the malfunctioning devices and, the problems went
away.

We then set out to find where the circuits were grounded. After 15
minutes, we located a bundle of 13 wires, connected to a steel
grounding stud, under the battery and spot welded to the wheel well
fender.

What a ridiculous approach to electrical design, 13 wires of varying
sizes crimped into one connector and not even soldered. The wires
were not protected with heat shrink tubing or even with some kind of
insulating electrical putty. With the bundle of wires under the
battery, what engineer couldn't foresee battery related corrosives
affecting the wires and connections... geez.

When we tried to loosen the nut holding the ring terminal to the stud,
the stud itself crumbled and came off the fixing point. Seven of the
ground wires were visibly broken. After cutting the terminal off and
stripping the wires, we discovered at least half of the wires were
compromised six inches under the insulation.

We dealt with this by cutting all the wires back to good copper,
solder pigtailing each wire with fresh wire that was covered with a
silicone insulation, inserting the pigtails into new, high quality
ring terminals (2 - 3 per terminal) and, instead of crimping we
soldered all the connections. We identified three good solid bolts
going into the engine that we could use as ground connecting points.

All connections are now protected with heat shrink tubing and we put
some duct sealing putty on the new ground bolts and ring terminals.

After a number of hours of work, everything in the vehicle works
great. I came away very disappointed with how the Chrysler engineers
designed the electrical system in the vehicle. I am not one to
purchase American designed or manufactured vehicles anymore, and this
experience reinforces that decision.

On 7/23/2017 7:58 AM, Stormin' Norman wrote:


We then set out to find where the circuits were grounded. After 15
minutes, we located a bundle of 13 wires, connected to a steel
grounding stud, under the battery and spot welded to the wheel well
fender.

What a ridiculous approach to electrical design, 13 wires of varying
sizes crimped into one connector and not even soldered. The wires
were not protected with heat shrink tubing or even with some kind of
insulating electrical putty. With the bundle of wires under the
battery, what engineer couldn't foresee battery related corrosives
affecting the wires and connections... geez.

Engine by Mopar. Electrical by Lucas.
Are you sure it was a Dodge? Sounds like something you'd find on a
Jaguar.

On 07/23/2017 07:58 AM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
What a ridiculous approach to electrical design, 13 wires of varying
sizes crimped into one connector and not even soldered. The wires
were not protected with heat shrink tubing or even with some kind of
insulating electrical putty. With the bundle of wires under the
battery, what engineer couldn't foresee battery related corrosives
affecting the wires and connections... geez.


A good quality battery with proper maintenance and a properly
functioning charging system does not leak acid.

Maybe some numbnutz owner/mechanic installed a cheap battery and
overfilled/overcharged it?

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 09:37:23 -0400, Jack Legg
wrote:

On 07/23/2017 07:58 AM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
What a ridiculous approach to electrical design, 13 wires of varying
sizes crimped into one connector and not even soldered. The wires
were not protected with heat shrink tubing or even with some kind of
insulating electrical putty. With the bundle of wires under the
battery, what engineer couldn't foresee battery related corrosives
affecting the wires and connections... geez.


A good quality battery with proper maintenance and a properly
functioning charging system does not leak acid.

Maybe some numbnutz owner/mechanic installed a cheap battery and
overfilled/overcharged it?

A. Where did I state the battery leaked?
B. All lead acid batteries outgas, those gases are corrosive.

No sir, this was extremely poor design coupled with very poor
materials and manufacturing. The trifecta that demolished American
automotive dominance.

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 09:32:49 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/23/2017 7:58 AM, Stormin' Norman wrote:


Engine by Mopar. Electrical by Lucas.
Are you sure it was a Dodge? Sounds like something you'd find on a
Jaguar.

Yup, Chrysler. In fact, I just remembered I owned a 1961 Plymouth
Valiant when I was stationed at MCAS Cherry Point. I was leaving the
base one afternoon in 1962 when the engine compartment started smoking
and just as I approached the front gate, it burst into flames. An
electrical fire.

I suppose there are a percentage of electrical problems with all makes
and models, but Chrysler sticks in my mind as being below average,
from an electrical perspective.

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 14:00:04 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote:

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 09:32:49 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/23/2017 7:58 AM, Stormin' Norman wrote:


Engine by Mopar. Electrical by Lucas.
Are you sure it was a Dodge? Sounds like something you'd find on a
Jaguar.

Yup, Chrysler. In fact, I just remembered I owned a 1961 Plymouth
Valiant when I was stationed at MCAS Cherry Point. I was leaving the
base one afternoon in 1962 when the engine compartment started smoking
and just as I approached the front gate, it burst into flames. An
electrical fire.

I suppose there are a percentage of electrical problems with all makes
and models, but Chrysler sticks in my mind as being below average,
from an electrical perspective.

My son's wife-to-be had a '90's Chrysler - a Stratus if I remember right.
He was driving it one day when it went up in flames due to a power steering hose coming
loose. Burnt to the ground before the fire engines showed up.
She got a recall notice a couple weeks later for that "problem."

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 09:45:19 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 14:00:04 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote:

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 09:32:49 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/23/2017 7:58 AM, Stormin' Norman wrote:


Engine by Mopar. Electrical by Lucas.
Are you sure it was a Dodge? Sounds like something you'd find on a
Jaguar.

Yup, Chrysler. In fact, I just remembered I owned a 1961 Plymouth
Valiant when I was stationed at MCAS Cherry Point. I was leaving the
base one afternoon in 1962 when the engine compartment started smoking
and just as I approached the front gate, it burst into flames. An
electrical fire.

I suppose there are a percentage of electrical problems with all makes
and models, but Chrysler sticks in my mind as being below average,
from an electrical perspective.

My son's wife-to-be had a '90's Chrysler - a Stratus if I remember right.
He was driving it one day when it went up in flames due to a power steering hose coming
loose. Burnt to the ground before the fire engines showed up.
She got a recall notice a couple weeks later for that "problem."

Wow! Did the flammable hydraulic fluid ignite when it came in contact
with the exhaust manifold?

That sucks, I hope no one was injured.

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 14:52:03 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote:



Wow! Did the flammable hydraulic fluid ignite when it came in contact
with the exhaust manifold?


Yep.

That sucks, I hope no one was injured.

He was driving alone on a main thoroughfare. He's a mechanic, so only his pride was
injured that he was caught driving a Chrysler.

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 10:07:25 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 14:52:03 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote:



Wow! Did the flammable hydraulic fluid ignite when it came in contact
with the exhaust manifold?


Yep.

That sucks, I hope no one was injured.

He was driving alone on a main thoroughfare. He's a mechanic, so only his pride was
injured that he was caught driving a Chrysler.

At least he was not injured. I hope they negotiated a generous
settlement with Chrysler, they deserved it.

On 7/23/2017 10:45 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 14:00:04 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote:

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 09:32:49 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/23/2017 7:58 AM, Stormin' Norman wrote:


Engine by Mopar. Electrical by Lucas.
Are you sure it was a Dodge? Sounds like something you'd find on a
Jaguar.

Yup, Chrysler. In fact, I just remembered I owned a 1961 Plymouth
Valiant when I was stationed at MCAS Cherry Point. I was leaving the
base one afternoon in 1962 when the engine compartment started smoking
and just as I approached the front gate, it burst into flames. An
electrical fire.

I suppose there are a percentage of electrical problems with all makes
and models, but Chrysler sticks in my mind as being below average,
from an electrical perspective.

My son's wife-to-be had a '90's Chrysler - a Stratus if I remember right.
He was driving it one day when it went up in flames due to a power steering hose coming
loose. Burnt to the ground before the fire engines showed up.
She got a recall notice a couple weeks later for that "problem."


So then they fixed it under the recall?

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 09:32:49 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/23/2017 7:58 AM, Stormin' Norman wrote:


We then set out to find where the circuits were grounded. After 15
minutes, we located a bundle of 13 wires, connected to a steel
grounding stud, under the battery and spot welded to the wheel well
fender.

What a ridiculous approach to electrical design, 13 wires of varying
sizes crimped into one connector and not even soldered. The wires
were not protected with heat shrink tubing or even with some kind of
insulating electrical putty. With the bundle of wires under the
battery, what engineer couldn't foresee battery related corrosives
affecting the wires and connections... geez.

Engine by Mopar. Electrical by Lucas.
Are you sure it was a Dodge? Sounds like something you'd find on a
Jaguar.
Nope. Good old Cherman engineering coutesy of Daimler Chrysler. Now
that the Italians have their fingers in the soup coutesy of FCA, we
will see if things iprove slightly or get much worse. The only
electrical systems worse than lucas and Bosch are Magnetti Marelli
and Ducellier.(oh - and those with all the strange cryllic charachters
in the name)

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 09:37:23 -0400, Jack Legg
wrote:

On 07/23/2017 07:58 AM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
What a ridiculous approach to electrical design, 13 wires of varying
sizes crimped into one connector and not even soldered. The wires
were not protected with heat shrink tubing or even with some kind of
insulating electrical putty. With the bundle of wires under the
battery, what engineer couldn't foresee battery related corrosives
affecting the wires and connections... geez.


A good quality battery with proper maintenance and a properly
functioning charging system does not leak acid.

Maybe some numbnutz owner/mechanic installed a cheap battery and
overfilled/overcharged it?
Regardless, putting all the grounds, or any connections, under the
battery has proven time and again to be a TERRIBLE idea when it comes
to electrical reliability. Many wiring harness problems over the years
have been traced to issues of corrosion around the battery.

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 09:45:19 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 14:00:04 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote:

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 09:32:49 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/23/2017 7:58 AM, Stormin' Norman wrote:


Engine by Mopar. Electrical by Lucas.
Are you sure it was a Dodge? Sounds like something you'd find on a
Jaguar.

Yup, Chrysler. In fact, I just remembered I owned a 1961 Plymouth
Valiant when I was stationed at MCAS Cherry Point. I was leaving the
base one afternoon in 1962 when the engine compartment started smoking
and just as I approached the front gate, it burst into flames. An
electrical fire.

I suppose there are a percentage of electrical problems with all makes
and models, but Chrysler sticks in my mind as being below average,
from an electrical perspective.

My son's wife-to-be had a '90's Chrysler - a Stratus if I remember right.
He was driving it one day when it went up in flames due to a power steering hose coming
loose. Burnt to the ground before the fire engines showed up.
She got a recall notice a couple weeks later for that "problem."
Over the decades, chrysler has actually been in the "above average"
class as far as electrical systems, while Ford has been slightly
below. On my last 4 Fords, virtually all the problems I have had have
been electrical in nature, and the vast majority related to electrical
connections.On my last 3 Chryslers products I do not remember a single
electrical issue. These vehicles span from 1985 to 2003. Most of these
vehicles went over 200,000km and over 10 years (some up to 21 years).
Compared to years ago, even with the electrical systems being much
more complex today, the number and severity of electrical problems is
down significantly from back in the sixties to eighties - and
particularly when the switch to aluminum chassis wiring was attempted
back in the late eighties. I remember many hours spent tracing down
electrical faults and splicing wiring harnesses - and repairing MANY
burned wiring harnesses in the early years of being in the trade.
Doesn't seem to be anywhere neer the problems on a percentage basis
today.

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 12:14:06 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/23/2017 10:45 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 14:00:04 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote:

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 09:32:49 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 7/23/2017 7:58 AM, Stormin' Norman wrote:


Engine by Mopar. Electrical by Lucas.
Are you sure it was a Dodge? Sounds like something you'd find on a
Jaguar.

Yup, Chrysler. In fact, I just remembered I owned a 1961 Plymouth
Valiant when I was stationed at MCAS Cherry Point. I was leaving the
base one afternoon in 1962 when the engine compartment started smoking
and just as I approached the front gate, it burst into flames. An
electrical fire.

I suppose there are a percentage of electrical problems with all makes
and models, but Chrysler sticks in my mind as being below average,
from an electrical perspective.

My son's wife-to-be had a '90's Chrysler - a Stratus if I remember right.
He was driving it one day when it went up in flames due to a power steering hose coming
loose. Burnt to the ground before the fire engines showed up.
She got a recall notice a couple weeks later for that "problem."


So then they fixed it under the recall?

No, the car was burned up. The village towed the hulk to a boneyard where it sat for 2
days at 75 bucks a day before my son learned about those charges and produced the title.
I believe Chrysler paid the boneyard fees. Big deal. The car was 9 or 10 years old.
He would have had to prove it was a manufacturer defect to get a little bit more, and he
just wanted to forget his wife-to-be once owned a Chrysler.