Hello all -

My gas water heater failed today, livin' on cold water until
I get it replaced.

Current unit is an A.O. Smith 40 gallon, installed June
1999. Just shy of 18 years old, so I guess I got my money's
worth from this one.

I'll like to go for a 50 gallon unit this time if it will fit.
Browsing the net, looks like the 50 gallon "tall" units are
60" high (by the posted specs).

Question:
Does this posted spec include the "bonnet" on top, as well,
or just the height of the tank itself?

I measured from the elbow of the vent pipe, I've got 64"
clear from the floor to the bottom of the elbow (which can't
be relocated any higher). Only leaves 4" to work within.

If that won't work, maybe I can get the shorter unit. But
that's a bigger diameter, and it could involve additional
mounting work. I'll have my plumber guy take a look before I
commit to the larger capacity.

Questions:
I don't mind paying a little more for the 10-year warranty,
IF you're actually getting something for it.
Is the extra money worth it?
Or -- are you getting the same unit (no physical
differences), but just "paying up front" for the additional
warranty period?

On 5/8/2017 9:20 PM, John Albert wrote:
Hello all -

My gas water heater failed today, livin' on cold water until I get it
replaced.

Current unit is an A.O. Smith 40 gallon, installed June 1999. Just shy
of 18 years old, so I guess I got my money's worth from this one.

I'll like to go for a 50 gallon unit this time if it will fit.
Browsing the net, looks like the 50 gallon "tall" units are 60" high (by
the posted specs).

Question:
Does this posted spec include the "bonnet" on top, as well, or just the
height of the tank itself?

I measured from the elbow of the vent pipe, I've got 64" clear from the
floor to the bottom of the elbow (which can't be relocated any higher).
Only leaves 4" to work within.

If that won't work, maybe I can get the shorter unit. But that's a
bigger diameter, and it could involve additional mounting work. I'll
have my plumber guy take a look before I commit to the larger capacity.

Questions:
I don't mind paying a little more for the 10-year warranty, IF you're
actually getting something for it.
Is the extra money worth it?
Or -- are you getting the same unit (no physical differences), but just
"paying up front" for the additional warranty period?

Why do you want a 50 gallon?

On 2017-05-08 10:15 PM, Meanie wrote:
On 5/8/2017 9:20 PM, John Albert wrote:
Hello all -

My gas water heater failed today, livin' on cold water until I get it
replaced.

Current unit is an A.O. Smith 40 gallon, installed June 1999. Just shy
of 18 years old, so I guess I got my money's worth from this one.

I'll like to go for a 50 gallon unit this time if it will fit.
Browsing the net, looks like the 50 gallon "tall" units are 60" high
(by the posted specs).

Question:
Does this posted spec include the "bonnet" on top, as well, or just
the height of the tank itself?

I measured from the elbow of the vent pipe, I've got 64" clear from
the floor to the bottom of the elbow (which can't be relocated any
higher). Only leaves 4" to work within.

If that won't work, maybe I can get the shorter unit. But that's a
bigger diameter, and it could involve additional mounting work. I'll
have my plumber guy take a look before I commit to the larger capacity.

Questions:
I don't mind paying a little more for the 10-year warranty, IF you're
actually getting something for it.
Is the extra money worth it?
Or -- are you getting the same unit (no physical differences), but
just "paying up front" for the additional warranty period?

Why do you want a 50 gallon?

Yep, two people with a 40 gallon is just fine, perfect even.

--
Froz....

On 5/8/2017 9:20 PM, John Albert wrote:
Hello all -

My gas water heater failed today, livin' on cold water until I get it
replaced.

Current unit is an A.O. Smith 40 gallon, installed June 1999. Just shy
of 18 years old, so I guess I got my money's worth from this one.

I'll like to go for a 50 gallon unit this time if it will fit.

Sounds like a lot of "ifs" for the extra 10 gallons. We've never had a
problem with 4 people and a 40 gallon tank. Do you have hot water
shortages?


Questions:
I don't mind paying a little more for the 10-year warranty, IF you're
actually getting something for it.
Is the extra money worth it?
Or -- are you getting the same unit (no physical differences), but just
"paying up front" for the additional warranty period?

Don't know for sure, but that seems to be the case.

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 11:07:31 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/8/2017 9:20 PM, John Albert wrote:
Hello all -

My gas water heater failed today, livin' on cold water until I get it
replaced.

Current unit is an A.O. Smith 40 gallon, installed June 1999. Just shy
of 18 years old, so I guess I got my money's worth from this one.

I'll like to go for a 50 gallon unit this time if it will fit.

Sounds like a lot of "ifs" for the extra 10 gallons. We've never had a
problem with 4 people and a 40 gallon tank. Do you have hot water
shortages?



There are also water heaters with higher firing capacity, which might
work out to be similar to having the 50 gal upgrade. For dimensions,
I would think the various websites would have the drawings and
complete dimensions.

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 8:20:13 PM UTC-5, John Albert wrote:
Hello all -

My gas water heater failed today, livin' on cold water until
I get it replaced.

Current unit is an A.O. Smith 40 gallon, installed June
1999. Just shy of 18 years old, so I guess I got my money's
worth from this one.

I'll like to go for a 50 gallon unit this time if it will fit.
Browsing the net, looks like the 50 gallon "tall" units are
60" high (by the posted specs).

Question:
Does this posted spec include the "bonnet" on top, as well,
or just the height of the tank itself?

I measured from the elbow of the vent pipe, I've got 64"
clear from the floor to the bottom of the elbow (which can't
be relocated any higher). Only leaves 4" to work within.

If that won't work, maybe I can get the shorter unit. But
that's a bigger diameter, and it could involve additional
mounting work. I'll have my plumber guy take a look before I
commit to the larger capacity.

Questions:
I don't mind paying a little more for the 10-year warranty,
IF you're actually getting something for it.
Is the extra money worth it?
Or -- are you getting the same unit (no physical
differences), but just "paying up front" for the additional
warranty period?

Have you considered a tankless water heater? I've installed several of the Bosch units that have a built-in turbine generator to run the igniter and gas valve. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-Natural.../dp/B0065OGB9Y

[8~{} Uncle Heated Monster

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 1:17:19 PM UTC-4, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 8:20:13 PM UTC-5, John Albert wrote:
Hello all -

My gas water heater failed today, livin' on cold water until
I get it replaced.

Current unit is an A.O. Smith 40 gallon, installed June
1999. Just shy of 18 years old, so I guess I got my money's
worth from this one.

I'll like to go for a 50 gallon unit this time if it will fit.
Browsing the net, looks like the 50 gallon "tall" units are
60" high (by the posted specs).

Question:
Does this posted spec include the "bonnet" on top, as well,
or just the height of the tank itself?

I measured from the elbow of the vent pipe, I've got 64"
clear from the floor to the bottom of the elbow (which can't
be relocated any higher). Only leaves 4" to work within.

If that won't work, maybe I can get the shorter unit. But
that's a bigger diameter, and it could involve additional
mounting work. I'll have my plumber guy take a look before I
commit to the larger capacity.

Questions:
I don't mind paying a little more for the 10-year warranty,
IF you're actually getting something for it.
Is the extra money worth it?
Or -- are you getting the same unit (no physical
differences), but just "paying up front" for the additional
warranty period?

Have you considered a tankless water heater? I've installed several of the Bosch units that have a built-in turbine generator to run the igniter and gas valve. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-Natural.../dp/B0065OGB9Y

[8~{} Uncle Heated Monster

I have and the financials remain the same, awful. Between the high cost
of the unit and the likelihood that a new gas line to support it will
need to be run, it takes decades to break even, assuming it lasts that
long. I can see them for special applications, eg where you need
unlimited hot water, but I've yet to see one make sense for a whole
house instead of a tank type.

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 12:48:53 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:

I have and the financials remain the same, awful. Between the high cost
of the unit and the likelihood that a new gas line to support it will
need to be run, it takes decades to break even, assuming it lasts that
long.


I'm curious about these but why would a new gas line need to
be run if there is an existing one there?

On Tue, 9 May 2017 11:09:52 -0700 (PDT), ItsJoanNotJoann
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 12:48:53 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:

I have and the financials remain the same, awful. Between the high cost
of the unit and the likelihood that a new gas line to support it will
need to be run, it takes decades to break even, assuming it lasts that
long.


I'm curious about these but why would a new gas line need to
be run if there is an existing one there?
Because they use from 4 to 10 times as much gas when they are
running. A lot of homes even need the meter and the line from the
street changed to support a gas tankless heater.

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 2:26:29 PM UTC-5, wrote:

On Tue, 9 May 2017 11:09:52 -0700 (PDT), ItsJoanNotJoann
wrote:


I'm curious about these but why would a new gas line need to
be run if there is an existing one there?

Because they use from 4 to 10 times as much gas when they are
running. A lot of homes even need the meter and the line from the
street changed to support a gas tankless heater.


Ooooooooooh.

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 2:26:29 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 9 May 2017 11:09:52 -0700 (PDT), ItsJoanNotJoann
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 12:48:53 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:

I have and the financials remain the same, awful. Between the high cost
of the unit and the likelihood that a new gas line to support it will
need to be run, it takes decades to break even, assuming it lasts that
long.

I'm curious about these but why would a new gas line need to
be run if there is an existing one there?
Because they use from 4 to 10 times as much gas when they are
running. A lot of homes even need the meter and the line from the
street changed to support a gas tankless heater.

Alabam Gas must be superior to the gas companies in Canadastan. Me and the guys never had a problem installing tankless gas water heaters in place of tank type water heaters. No new gas line was needed nor was a gas meter change needed. The only time I ever had to get a gas meter changed was when installing natural gas fueled backup generators in homes or businesses. It was because the generators required 11" WC NG pressure in order to operate. The meter and regulator feeding it had to be changed out to a two pound pressure system. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Gassy Monster

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 3:42:32 PM UTC-4, ItsJoanNotJoann wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 2:26:29 PM UTC-5, wrote:

On Tue, 9 May 2017 11:09:52 -0700 (PDT), ItsJoanNotJoann
wrote:


I'm curious about these but why would a new gas line need to
be run if there is an existing one there?

Because they use from 4 to 10 times as much gas when they are
running. A lot of homes even need the meter and the line from the
street changed to support a gas tankless heater.


Ooooooooooh.

Here's an example:

http://www.tanklessking.com/rheem-rt...FYlKDQodDwoC5Q

It's marketed for a "2-3 bedroom house", gives 8 gal a min with a
45F temp rise. So, if you have 40F water in winter, that's 85F
hot water at 8 gal a min. It uses 200,000 BTUs. Typical tank
type is probably 40K or so. The furnace might be 80K to 120K.
Houses typically were not sized to handle that kind of additional load.
Or course you wouldn't run it like that all the time, but to install
it, you need that 200K capability.

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 3:59:47 PM UTC-4, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 2:26:29 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 9 May 2017 11:09:52 -0700 (PDT), ItsJoanNotJoann
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 12:48:53 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:

I have and the financials remain the same, awful. Between the high cost
of the unit and the likelihood that a new gas line to support it will
need to be run, it takes decades to break even, assuming it lasts that
long.

I'm curious about these but why would a new gas line need to
be run if there is an existing one there?
Because they use from 4 to 10 times as much gas when they are
running. A lot of homes even need the meter and the line from the
street changed to support a gas tankless heater.

Alabam Gas must be superior to the gas companies in Canadastan. Me and the guys never had a problem installing tankless gas water heaters in place of tank type water heaters. No new gas line was needed nor was a gas meter change needed. The only time I ever had to get a gas meter changed was when installing natural gas fueled backup generators in homes or businesses. It was because the generators required 11" WC NG pressure in order to operate. The meter and regulator feeding it had to be changed out to a two pound pressure system. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Gassy Monster

A typical whole house 40 gal tank type is ~35K BTUs. I just posted
a link to a typical whole house tankless they claim is for a 2- 3 bedroom
house. It needs 200K BTUs. How do you get 200K worth of gas through
the piping going to a 35K water heater? How do you get enough gas in
the house using the existing line to support the furnace, cooking, dryer,
etc and the new 200K load? Must be some miracle gas at work in
AL or those people are taking cold showers. Around here gas lines
in homes were sized to the loads expected at the time and nobody was
expecting or sizing to an additional 200K load, which is probable
equal to what the whole house with all it's loads at the time was
sized to.

On 5/9/17 2:26 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 9 May 2017 11:09:52 -0700 (PDT), ItsJoanNotJoann
wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 12:48:53 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
I have and the financials remain the same, awful. Between the
high cost of the unit and the likelihood that a new gas line to
support it will need to be run, it takes decades to break even,
assuming it lasts that long.
I'm curious about these but why would a new gas line need to be run
if there is an existing one there?
Because they use from 4 to 10 times as much gas when they are
running. A lot of homes even need the meter and the line from the
street changed to support a gas tankless heater.

I have a Rinnai RV 53. It's working on the previous heater's
1/2" line. The water heater is maybe 25' from the gas meter. I don't
use more than one thing at a time that requires hot water though.

On 05/09/2017 08:24 PM, trader_4 wrote:
A typical whole house 40 gal tank type is ~35K BTUs. I just posted
a link to a typical whole house tankless they claim is for a 2- 3 bedroom
house. It needs 200K BTUs. How do you get 200K worth of gas through
the piping going to a 35K water heater? How do you get enough gas in
the house using the existing line to support the furnace, cooking, dryer,
etc and the new 200K load? Must be some miracle gas at work in
AL or those people are taking cold showers. Around here gas lines
in homes were sized to the loads expected at the time and nobody was
expecting or sizing to an additional 200K load, which is probable
equal to what the whole house with all it's loads at the time was
sized to.


And people don't think about what happens when that tankless fails while
taking a shower. Suddenly the homeowner is standing under a stream of
55F water trying to rinse the soap out of their hair.

No thanks, give me a good old fashioned tank type.

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 9:11:18 PM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 5/9/17 2:26 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 9 May 2017 11:09:52 -0700 (PDT), ItsJoanNotJoann
wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 12:48:53 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
I have and the financials remain the same, awful. Between the
high cost of the unit and the likelihood that a new gas line to
support it will need to be run, it takes decades to break even,
assuming it lasts that long.
I'm curious about these but why would a new gas line need to be run
if there is an existing one there?
Because they use from 4 to 10 times as much gas when they are
running. A lot of homes even need the meter and the line from the
street changed to support a gas tankless heater.

I have a Rinnai RV 53. It's working on the previous heater's
1/2" line. The water heater is maybe 25' from the gas meter. I don't
use more than one thing at a time that requires hot water though.

That's a key difference. The OP is talking about replacing a tank type that
currently supplies the whole house and typically people expect to
be able to be drawing hot water from several sources at the same time.

On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 3:45:43 AM UTC-5, Trumpster wrote:
On 05/09/2017 08:24 PM, trader_4 wrote:
A typical whole house 40 gal tank type is ~35K BTUs. I just posted
a link to a typical whole house tankless they claim is for a 2- 3 bedroom
house. It needs 200K BTUs. How do you get 200K worth of gas through
the piping going to a 35K water heater? How do you get enough gas in
the house using the existing line to support the furnace, cooking, dryer,
etc and the new 200K load? Must be some miracle gas at work in
AL or those people are taking cold showers. Around here gas lines
in homes were sized to the loads expected at the time and nobody was
expecting or sizing to an additional 200K load, which is probable
equal to what the whole house with all it's loads at the time was
sized to.


And people don't think about what happens when that tankless fails while
taking a shower. Suddenly the homeowner is standing under a stream of
55F water trying to rinse the soap out of their hair.

No thanks, give me a good old fashioned tank type.

So does the old style fail slowly, allowing you to replace it before a total failure ??

My experience is that the old style water heaters last at least 15 years.

Andy

On Wed, 10 May 2017 16:14:58 -0700 (PDT), Andy
wrote:

On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 3:45:43 AM UTC-5, Trumpster wrote:
On 05/09/2017 08:24 PM, trader_4 wrote:
A typical whole house 40 gal tank type is ~35K BTUs. I just posted
a link to a typical whole house tankless they claim is for a 2- 3 bedroom
house. It needs 200K BTUs. How do you get 200K worth of gas through
the piping going to a 35K water heater? How do you get enough gas in
the house using the existing line to support the furnace, cooking, dryer,
etc and the new 200K load? Must be some miracle gas at work in
AL or those people are taking cold showers. Around here gas lines
in homes were sized to the loads expected at the time and nobody was
expecting or sizing to an additional 200K load, which is probable
equal to what the whole house with all it's loads at the time was
sized to.


And people don't think about what happens when that tankless fails while
taking a shower. Suddenly the homeowner is standing under a stream of
55F water trying to rinse the soap out of their hair.

No thanks, give me a good old fashioned tank type.

So does the old style fail slowly, allowing you to replace it before a total failure ??

My experience is that the old style water heaters last at least 15 years.

Andy
Mine last about 18 years before they start to drip. A friend who
rents his just had another one replaced in under 5 years. He has yet
to see one reach 10.

wrote:
On Wed, 10 May 2017 16:14:58 -0700 (PDT), Andy
wrote:

On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 3:45:43 AM UTC-5, Trumpster wrote:
On 05/09/2017 08:24 PM, trader_4 wrote:
A typical whole house 40 gal tank type is ~35K BTUs. I just posted
a link to a typical whole house tankless they claim is for a 2- 3 bedroom
house. It needs 200K BTUs. How do you get 200K worth of gas through
the piping going to a 35K water heater? How do you get enough gas in
the house using the existing line to support the furnace, cooking, dryer,
etc and the new 200K load? Must be some miracle gas at work in
AL or those people are taking cold showers. Around here gas lines
in homes were sized to the loads expected at the time and nobody was
expecting or sizing to an additional 200K load, which is probable
equal to what the whole house with all it's loads at the time was
sized to.


And people don't think about what happens when that tankless fails while
taking a shower. Suddenly the homeowner is standing under a stream of
55F water trying to rinse the soap out of their hair.

No thanks, give me a good old fashioned tank type.

So does the old style fail slowly, allowing you to replace it before a total failure ??

My experience is that the old style water heaters last at least 15 years.

Andy
Mine last about 18 years before they start to drip. A friend who
rents his just had another one replaced in under 5 years. He has yet
to see one reach 10.

I used 2 in 46 years and just started on number 3 so getting 23 years per heater. My maintenance
consists of flushing the tank about 4 times a year.

On 5/10/2017 7:14 PM, Andy wrote:
On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 3:45:43 AM UTC-5, Trumpster wrote:
On 05/09/2017 08:24 PM, trader_4 wrote:
A typical whole house 40 gal tank type is ~35K BTUs. I just posted
a link to a typical whole house tankless they claim is for a 2- 3 bedroom
house. It needs 200K BTUs. How do you get 200K worth of gas through
the piping going to a 35K water heater? How do you get enough gas in
the house using the existing line to support the furnace, cooking, dryer,
etc and the new 200K load? Must be some miracle gas at work in
AL or those people are taking cold showers. Around here gas lines
in homes were sized to the loads expected at the time and nobody was
expecting or sizing to an additional 200K load, which is probable
equal to what the whole house with all it's loads at the time was
sized to.

And people don't think about what happens when that tankless fails while
taking a shower. Suddenly the homeowner is standing under a stream of
55F water trying to rinse the soap out of their hair.

No thanks, give me a good old fashioned tank type.
So does the old style fail slowly, allowing you to replace it before a total failure ??

My experience is that the old style water heaters last at least 15 years.

Andy

When my tank-type failed as I showered, the water gradually cooled off and required me to keep adjusting the mixing valve to a hotter position. The shower water temp was never uncomfortable though.

On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 7:15:03 PM UTC-4, Andy wrote:
On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 3:45:43 AM UTC-5, Trumpster wrote:
On 05/09/2017 08:24 PM, trader_4 wrote:
A typical whole house 40 gal tank type is ~35K BTUs. I just posted
a link to a typical whole house tankless they claim is for a 2- 3 bedroom
house. It needs 200K BTUs. How do you get 200K worth of gas through
the piping going to a 35K water heater? How do you get enough gas in
the house using the existing line to support the furnace, cooking, dryer,
etc and the new 200K load? Must be some miracle gas at work in
AL or those people are taking cold showers. Around here gas lines
in homes were sized to the loads expected at the time and nobody was
expecting or sizing to an additional 200K load, which is probable
equal to what the whole house with all it's loads at the time was
sized to.


And people don't think about what happens when that tankless fails while
taking a shower. Suddenly the homeowner is standing under a stream of
55F water trying to rinse the soap out of their hair.

No thanks, give me a good old fashioned tank type.

So does the old style fail slowly, allowing you to replace it before a total failure ??

My experience is that the old style water heaters last at least 15 years.

Andy

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. My last one, the first sign of trouble was
a strange buzzing sound in the middle of the night. Took awhile to figure
out what it was, but it was the WH had sprung a slow leak and it was the
vibration of the pipes. It wasn't something that I could let go, had to
get a new one right away. Others have had them go with bigger leaks,
flooding the basement. Sometimes you can see weeping that allow for
days or weeks to replace, depending on how lucky you feel and the consequences of sudden water flow.