It looks like our water heater might be on its last legs. before I order
a new one, I thought I'd check out what the plumber told me.

What is the life expectancy of a good quality water heater?

What is a good quality water heater? Does the brand/model make that much
difference?

The heater is installed in an unheated basement room in a mild climate
(rarely under 40F and seldoim under 50F). Does having it wrapped in an
insulating pad matter much?

Anything else I should know before deciding on a new heater?

Thanks so much

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 12:34:31 -0800, Jennifer Murphy
wrote:

It looks like our water heater might be on its last legs. before I order
a new one, I thought I'd check out what the plumber told me.

What is the life expectancy of a good quality water heater?


Can't say for sure. I buy the models with a six year warranty - less
cost for me and it works.

What is a good quality water heater? Does the brand/model make that much
difference?

The heater is installed in an unheated basement room in a mild climate
(rarely under 40F and seldoim under 50F). Does having it wrapped in an
insulating pad matter much?

Anything else I should know before deciding on a new heater?


Now many people will this heater serve
--
"People who worry about crocodiles are smart!" -Joe Machi

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 12:59:26 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 12:34:31 -0800, Jennifer Murphy
wrote:

It looks like our water heater might be on its last legs. before I order
a new one, I thought I'd check out what the plumber told me.

What is the life expectancy of a good quality water heater?


Can't say for sure. I buy the models with a six year warranty - less
cost for me and it works.

What is a good quality water heater? Does the brand/model make that much
difference?

The heater is installed in an unheated basement room in a mild climate
(rarely under 40F and seldoim under 50F). Does having it wrapped in an
insulating pad matter much?

Anything else I should know before deciding on a new heater?


Now many people will this heater serve

Two, most of the time.

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 13:04:46 -0800, Jennifer Murphy
wrote:

many people will this heater serve

Two, most of the time.

A forty gallon tank may work

Is your WH gas, electric?

Details matter...
--
"People who worry about crocodiles are smart!" -Joe Machi

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 13:15:15 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 13:04:46 -0800, Jennifer Murphy
wrote:

many people will this heater serve

Two, most of the time.

A forty gallon tank may work

Is your WH gas, electric?

Details matter...

Gas

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 16:17:09 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 12:34:31 -0800, Jennifer Murphy
wrote:

It looks like our water heater might be on its last legs. before I order
a new one, I thought I'd check out what the plumber told me.

What is the life expectancy of a good quality water heater?

How good is your water? Gas or electric?

The city water is pretty good, I think. The heater is gas.

In a place in the North East with a good city water system a water
heater can go 15 or 20 years. Down here in Florida with bad well water
I feel lucky to get 7 or 8
Gas usually lasts longer than electric but electric is easier to fix
as long as the tank is good.
Use dielectric fittings on the pipes and jumper around them. The steel
tank will react to copper pipes. Some water heaters have them already.



What is a good quality water heater? Does the brand/model make that much
difference?

The heater is installed in an unheated basement room in a mild climate
(rarely under 40F and seldoim under 50F). Does having it wrapped in an
insulating pad matter much?

It probably helps a little


Anything else I should know before deciding on a new heater?

Safest is to get it permitted and inspected. Some guys just throw them
in without an inspection and you are really not sure what you are
getting unless you know what to watch for.

Thanks so much

Hi Jennifer,

It looks like our water heater might be on its last legs. before
I order a new one, I thought I'd check out what the plumber told
me. What is the life expectancy of a good quality water heater?

I think the average is about 10-15 years, but there are a lot of
variables that could affect it's life span (usage, water quality,
electrolysis, etc.).

What is a good quality water heater? Does the brand/model make
that much difference?

There's not much to a water heater, and you'll probably only have two or
three brands to choose from. I would avoid the cheapest heaters, but
don't buy more than you need either. For starters, look for lined tanks
and good insulation.

The heater is installed in an unheated basement room in a mild climate
(rarely under 40F and seldoim under 50F). Does having it wrapped in an
insulating pad matter much?

Most water heaters these days are manufactured with good insulation
already. You won't gain much by adding an external wrap.

Anything else I should know before deciding on a new heater?

Is it gas or electric?

Is your old heater leaking, or just not heating? You might be able to
replace the heating element or thermostat at a lower cost than replacing
the heater.

How big is your current heater? 40-50 gallons is typical, but if you have
a large bath tub or several people in the home, you may want a larger
tank.

How much space do you have for the heater? If you have low headroom you
may need a short heater. If it fits in a closet or alcove, you might need
to measure the available space and find a tank that fits.

You should use dielectric unions for the water connections. These help
prevent corrosion caused by electrolysis (electrical differences in
different types of metal).

You should have a drain pan to catch water if the tank develops a leak.
Of course, the pan should drain somewhere safe, it won't hold 40+ gallons
of water.

Make sure there is a new pressure relief valve on the water heater, and
test it after installation to flush out any debris. Again, this should be
plumbed to a safe drain somewhere.

You should also install a seismic strap to anchor the heater to a wall so
it doesn't tip over if there is an earthquake.

If you currently have a gas water heater, you may want to consider
tankless, on-demand water heaters. These are smaller units and only heat
water when you use it, so you never run out of hot water.

If you have an electric heater, you may want to consider a heat pump
water heater. These use a lot less electricity, but the heater will need
to be located in a room with enough space to draw heat from. These
extract heat from the air, so they may not function well in a tiny
enclosed room.

Take care,

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

On Wednesday, January 7, 2015 5:06:26 PM UTC-5, Jennifer Murphy wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 16:17:09 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 12:34:31 -0800, Jennifer Murphy
wrote:

It looks like our water heater might be on its last legs. before I order
a new one, I thought I'd check out what the plumber told me.

What is the life expectancy of a good quality water heater?

How good is your water? Gas or electric?

The city water is pretty good, I think. The heater is gas.

Typical life of a gas one is 10 to 13 years, in my experience. As
others have said, a lot depends on the water. Electric ones, typically
50%+ additional typical life.

IDK that it's worth it paying more for direct vent, higher efficiency,
etc. In summer here, my gas bill is ~$17, which is for hot water and
some small amount of gas grilling outside. Meaning, the WH isn't
using all that much. Of course if you're on propane instead of NG,
that could change things.




In a place in the North East with a good city water system a water
heater can go 15 or 20 years. Down here in Florida with bad well water
I feel lucky to get 7 or 8
Gas usually lasts longer than electric but electric is easier to fix
as long as the tank is good.
Use dielectric fittings on the pipes and jumper around them. The steel
tank will react to copper pipes. Some water heaters have them already.



What is a good quality water heater? Does the brand/model make that much
difference?

The heater is installed in an unheated basement room in a mild climate
(rarely under 40F and seldoim under 50F). Does having it wrapped in an
insulating pad matter much?

It probably helps a little


Anything else I should know before deciding on a new heater?

Safest is to get it permitted and inspected. Some guys just throw them
in without an inspection and you are really not sure what you are
getting unless you know what to watch for.

Thanks so much

On Wednesday, January 7, 2015 5:23:36 PM UTC-5, HerHusband wrote:
Hi Jennifer,

It looks like our water heater might be on its last legs. before
I order a new one, I thought I'd check out what the plumber told
me. What is the life expectancy of a good quality water heater?

I think the average is about 10-15 years, but there are a lot of
variables that could affect it's life span (usage, water quality,
electrolysis, etc.).

What is a good quality water heater? Does the brand/model make
that much difference?

There's not much to a water heater, and you'll probably only have two or
three brands to choose from. I would avoid the cheapest heaters, but
don't buy more than you need either. For starters, look for lined tanks
and good insulation.

The heater is installed in an unheated basement room in a mild climate
(rarely under 40F and seldoim under 50F). Does having it wrapped in an
insulating pad matter much?

Most water heaters these days are manufactured with good insulation
already. You won't gain much by adding an external wrap.

Anything else I should know before deciding on a new heater?

Is it gas or electric?

Is your old heater leaking, or just not heating? You might be able to
replace the heating element or thermostat at a lower cost than replacing
the heater.

How big is your current heater? 40-50 gallons is typical, but if you have
a large bath tub or several people in the home, you may want a larger
tank.

How much space do you have for the heater? If you have low headroom you
may need a short heater. If it fits in a closet or alcove, you might need
to measure the available space and find a tank that fits.

You should use dielectric unions for the water connections. These help
prevent corrosion caused by electrolysis (electrical differences in
different types of metal).


The dielectric union thing, I'm not convinced. If the old one had
corrosion at the transition point, then I'd use them. I've had water
heaters over many years, no DE unions, no corrosion issues. Code
may require them though in some places.



You should have a drain pan to catch water if the tank develops a leak.
Of course, the pan should drain somewhere safe, it won't hold 40+ gallons
of water.

Yes, good idea.



Make sure there is a new pressure relief valve on the water heater, and
test it after installation to flush out any debris. Again, this should be
plumbed to a safe drain somewhere.

Every one I've seen comes with one.


You should also install a seismic strap to anchor the heater to a wall so
it doesn't tip over if there is an earthquake.

If you're in an earthquake prone area.


If you currently have a gas water heater, you may want to consider
tankless, on-demand water heaters. These are smaller units and only heat
water when you use it, so you never run out of hot water.

When she does the math and finds out what they cost, including the
many install issues, IMO it's a non-starter.



If you have an electric heater, you may want to consider a heat pump
water heater. These use a lot less electricity, but the heater will need
to be located in a room with enough space to draw heat from. These
extract heat from the air, so they may not function well in a tiny
enclosed room.

Take care,

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

On 01/07/2015 12:34 PM, Jennifer Murphy wrote:

What is a good quality water heater?

If you want the best, you buy a Bradford-White and have it
professionally installed. While it will cost significantly more than
others, you won't have to worry about it for a very long time.

Jon

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 12:34:31 -0800, Jennifer Murphy
wrote:

It looks like our water heater might be on its last legs. before I order
a new one, I thought I'd check out what the plumber told me.

What is the life expectancy of a good quality water heater?

What is a good quality water heater? Does the brand/model make that much
difference?

The heater is installed in an unheated basement room in a mild climate
(rarely under 40F and seldoim under 50F). Does having it wrapped in an
insulating pad matter much?

Anything else I should know before deciding on a new heater?

Thanks so much
Gas or electric???
I've found it's generally worth while buying the higher waranty unit
- the extra life is greater than the extra proportional cost due to
more anodes and better lining, as well as brass drain valves instead
of plastic and other details.
My GSW lasted 20 years. 4 years in now on GE.

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 16:17:09 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 12:34:31 -0800, Jennifer Murphy
wrote:

It looks like our water heater might be on its last legs. before I order
a new one, I thought I'd check out what the plumber told me.

What is the life expectancy of a good quality water heater?

How good is your water? Gas or electric?
In a place in the North East with a good city water system a water
heater can go 15 or 20 years. Down here in Florida with bad well water
I feel lucky to get 7 or 8
Gas usually lasts longer than electric but electric is easier to fix
as long as the tank is good.
Use dielectric fittings on the pipes and jumper around them. The steel
tank will react to copper pipes. Some water heaters have them already.


Those that don't aren't really water heaters. They are just
water-heater-ish pieces of junk.

A decent water heater has dialectric fittings and 2 anodes, as well as
a brass sediment or drain valve. A good water heater also has a
"turbulator" type inlet pipe that swirls the water around the tank as
the water comes in. Generally any tank with those features is worth
taking home. Any without, you may as well just leave at the store and
go looking elsewhere.

The last couple of years the mid-high line Rheem Rudd manufactured
units are pretty decent.
GSW used to be real good, but since they closed the Fergus Ontario
plant I don't see them up here any more.

What is a good quality water heater? Does the brand/model make that much
difference?

The heater is installed in an unheated basement room in a mild climate
(rarely under 40F and seldoim under 50F). Does having it wrapped in an
insulating pad matter much?

It probably helps a little


Anything else I should know before deciding on a new heater?

Safest is to get it permitted and inspected. Some guys just throw them
in without an inspection and you are really not sure what you are
getting unless you know what to watch for.

Thanks so much

On Wed, 7 Jan 2015 22:23:05 +0000 (UTC), HerHusband
wrote:

Hi Jennifer,

It looks like our water heater might be on its last legs. before
I order a new one, I thought I'd check out what the plumber told
me. What is the life expectancy of a good quality water heater?

I think the average is about 10-15 years, but there are a lot of
variables that could affect it's life span (usage, water quality,
electrolysis, etc.).

What is a good quality water heater? Does the brand/model make
that much difference?

There's not much to a water heater, and you'll probably only have two or
three brands to choose from. I would avoid the cheapest heaters, but
don't buy more than you need either. For starters, look for lined tanks
and good insulation.

The heater is installed in an unheated basement room in a mild climate
(rarely under 40F and seldoim under 50F). Does having it wrapped in an
insulating pad matter much?

Most water heaters these days are manufactured with good insulation
already. You won't gain much by adding an external wrap.

Anything else I should know before deciding on a new heater?

Is it gas or electric?

Is your old heater leaking, or just not heating? You might be able to
replace the heating element or thermostat at a lower cost than replacing
the heater.


Inless your old one was too small, replace with the same size/style
as you now have. Tall-boy or shorty, etc.
How big is your current heater? 40-50 gallons is typical, but if you have
a large bath tub or several people in the home, you may want a larger
tank.

How much space do you have for the heater? If you have low headroom you
may need a short heater. If it fits in a closet or alcove, you might need
to measure the available space and find a tank that fits.

You should use dielectric unions for the water connections. These help
prevent corrosion caused by electrolysis (electrical differences in
different types of metal).

You should have a drain pan to catch water if the tank develops a leak.
Of course, the pan should drain somewhere safe, it won't hold 40+ gallons
of water.

Make sure there is a new pressure relief valve on the water heater, and
test it after installation to flush out any debris. Again, this should be
plumbed to a safe drain somewhere.

You should also install a seismic strap to anchor the heater to a wall so
it doesn't tip over if there is an earthquake.

If you currently have a gas water heater, you may want to consider
tankless, on-demand water heaters. These are smaller units and only heat
water when you use it, so you never run out of hot water.
Don't even CONSIDER a tankless. They do NOT save you gas, they may
require a larger gas service, and they are MONEY PITS - maintenance ie
ridiculous on most of them
If you have an electric heater, you may want to consider a heat pump
water heater. These use a lot less electricity, but the heater will need
to be located in a room with enough space to draw heat from. These
extract heat from the air, so they may not function well in a tiny
enclosed room.

And in most cases a TOTAL waste of money.
K.I.S.S.

Keep it simple stupid.
A water heater should not be rocket science, and should not require
stationary engineers papers to operate it.

Take care,

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

Jennifer Murphy wrote:
It looks like our water heater might be on its last legs. before I order
a new one, I thought I'd check out what the plumber told me.

What is the life expectancy of a good quality water heater?

What is a good quality water heater? Does the brand/model make that much
difference?

The heater is installed in an unheated basement room in a mild climate
(rarely under 40F and seldoim under 50F). Does having it wrapped in an
insulating pad matter much?

Anything else I should know before deciding on a new heater?

Thanks so much

Hi,
Our 9 year warrantied Kenmore WH is in it's 13th year. Never
had any trouble since new. Our water is hard, we have softener.

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 12:34:31 -0800, Jennifer Murphy
wrote:

It looks like our water heater might be on its last legs. before I order
a new one, I thought I'd check out what the plumber told me.

What is the life expectancy of a good quality water heater?

What is a good quality water heater? Does the brand/model make that much
difference?

The heater is installed in an unheated basement room in a mild climate
(rarely under 40F and seldoim under 50F). Does having it wrapped in an
insulating pad matter much?

Anything else I should know before deciding on a new heater?

Thanks so much

The plumber just left. It was one of those odd combinations of events
that I am sure was cooked up by some god I offended somewhere along the
line.

The main problem was a failing heat sensor -- a coil of copper wires
that watches for overheating. It apparently thought it was hotter than
it really was, so it kept shutting the thing off after the water got
lukewarm.

Coincidentally, and total unrelated, the drain value developed a leaking
gasket, which made it look like the tank was leaking. Either one by
themselves would have been easier to diagnose -- at least for a
layperson. The plumber had no problem with it.

I should have hot water shortly.

Thank you all for your suggestions.

The dielectric union thing, I'm not convinced. If the old one had
corrosion at the transition point, then I'd use them. I've had water
heaters over many years, no DE unions, no corrosion issues. Code
may require them though in some places.

I think our water heater came with the dielectric unions. Still, they are a
minor expense for a little added insurance.

Our water is rather acidic and tends to be corrosive anyway. I used the
dielectric unions just to be safe, even though the majority of our plumbing
is PVC.

Make sure there is a new pressure relief valve on the water heater,
and test it after installation to flush out any debris. Again, this
should be plumbed to a safe drain somewhere.

Every one I've seen comes with one.

Yep, same here, but it's worth verifying and testing. You're supposed to
test them regularly, but who does that...

Have you ever seen the episode of Mythbusters where they disabled the
relief valve and thermostats on a water heater? It made a nice missle up
through the roof!

You should also install a seismic strap to anchor the heater to a
wall so it doesn't tip over if there is an earthquake.
If you're in an earthquake prone area.

Yep, the straps were a code requirement here in Washington state.


Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

On 1/7/2015 5:05 PM, Jennifer Murphy wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 13:15:15 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 13:04:46 -0800, Jennifer Murphy
wrote:

many people will this heater serve

Two, most of the time.

A forty gallon tank may work

Is your WH gas, electric?

Details matter...

Gas


Water source too.
I'm on well water with electric heaters and am lucky to get 7 years.

Unless your old one was too small, replace with the same size/style
as you now have. Tall-boy or shorty, etc.

Generally good advice, though there's no guarantee the original heater was
properly sized. If the previous owners had a bigger family or enjoyed long
showers, they may have installed an oversized tank. Or, maybe they found a
good deal on a shorty heater, when a standard tank would work just as well.

It's at least worth seeing what you have, and seeing what is recommended.

Don't even CONSIDER a tankless.

They have their place and are standard equipment in many parts of the
world. They work especially well when the water usage is sporadic, such as
a vacation rental or summer home. Why pay to heat water when no one is
using it.

That said, I have "used" a lot of tankless heaters, but never "owned" one
myself to know what maintenance or longevity issues they may have.

you may want to consider a heat pump water heater.
And in most cases a TOTAL waste of money.
Keep it simple stupid.

They can be cheaper to operate than resistive electric heating, but they
have limits. The heat has to come from somewhere, which is generally heat
loss from other rooms.

It wouldn't make sense to use an electric heater to warm up the room for
the heat pump to extract.

A water heater should not be rocket science

How about a geo-thermal heat pump with solar assist? A few hundred feet of
pipe, pumps, heat converters, and expansion tanks. Maybe throw in some kind
of computerized tracking mechanism to maximize exposure on the solar
panels.

Anthony

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 19:49:45 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 15:37:13 -0800, Jennifer Murphy
wrote:

The plumber just left. It was one of those odd combinations of events
that I am sure was cooked up by some god I offended somewhere along the
line.

The main problem was a failing heat sensor -- a coil of copper wires
that watches for overheating. It apparently thought it was hotter than
it really was, so it kept shutting the thing off after the water got
lukewarm.

Coincidentally, and total unrelated, the drain value developed a leaking
gasket, which made it look like the tank was leaking. Either one by
themselves would have been easier to diagnose -- at least for a
layperson. The plumber had no problem with it.

I should have hot water shortly.

Thank you all for your suggestions.

It sounds like you got an honest guy there. He could have easily sold
you a new water heater.

We've used this company for 20 years, so they would not benefit from
cheating us. We also have a very active neighborhood community, which,
since the Internet, is online and very dynamic. Any shenanigans wohild
quickly spread through the community with severe consequences. This
company is well respected.

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 15:37:13 -0800, Jennifer Murphy
wrote:


Coincidentally, and total unrelated, the drain value developed a leaking
gasket, which made it look like the tank was leaking. Either one by
themselves would have been easier to diagnose -- at least for a
layperson. The plumber had no problem with it.

Great.

I should have hot water shortly.

Great.

If something goes wrong again, you could get a hot water modem. You'd
have to subscribe to a hot water website also, but you can get up to 4
galllons an hour for a modest cost. The modem has a built-in spigot.

Thank you all for your suggestions.

On Thu, 8 Jan 2015 00:09:13 +0000 (UTC), HerHusband
wrote:

Unless your old one was too small, replace with the same size/style
as you now have. Tall-boy or shorty, etc.

Generally good advice, though there's no guarantee the original heater was
properly sized. If the previous owners had a bigger family or enjoyed long
showers, they may have installed an oversized tank. Or, maybe they found a
good deal on a shorty heater, when a standard tank would work just as well.

It's at least worth seeing what you have, and seeing what is recommended.

Don't even CONSIDER a tankless.

They have their place and are standard equipment in many parts of the
world. They work especially well when the water usage is sporadic, such as
a vacation rental or summer home. Why pay to heat water when no one is
using it.

That said, I have "used" a lot of tankless heaters, but never "owned" one
myself to know what maintenance or longevity issues they may have.

you may want to consider a heat pump water heater.
And in most cases a TOTAL waste of money.
Keep it simple stupid.

They can be cheaper to operate than resistive electric heating, but they
have limits. The heat has to come from somewhere, which is generally heat
loss from other rooms.

It wouldn't make sense to use an electric heater to warm up the room for
the heat pump to extract.

A water heater should not be rocket science

How about a geo-thermal heat pump with solar assist? A few hundred feet of
pipe, pumps, heat converters, and expansion tanks. Maybe throw in some kind
of computerized tracking mechanism to maximize exposure on the solar
panels.

Anthony

On Wednesday, January 7, 2015 7:29:57 PM UTC-6, micky wrote:

If something goes wrong again, you could get a hot water modem. You'd
have to subscribe to a hot water website also, but you can get up to 4
gallons an hour for a modest cost. The modem has a built-in spigot.

You're as amusing as the Mormon.

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 20:29:52 -0500, micky
wrote:

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 15:37:13 -0800, Jennifer Murphy
wrote:


Coincidentally, and total unrelated, the drain value developed a leaking
gasket, which made it look like the tank was leaking. Either one by
themselves would have been easier to diagnose -- at least for a
layperson. The plumber had no problem with it.

Great.

I should have hot water shortly.

Great.

If something goes wrong again, you could get a hot water modem. You'd
have to subscribe to a hot water website also, but you can get up to 4
galllons an hour for a modest cost. The modem has a built-in spigot.

We have Comcast, so we'd never get anywhere close to 4 galllons/hour. It
would take forever to fill even a one quart bottle, let alone a bathtub.
Plus it would go down all the time and it would cost an arm and a leg.

On Wed, 7 Jan 2015 17:42:49 -0800 (PST), bob_villa
wrote:

On Wednesday, January 7, 2015 7:29:57 PM UTC-6, micky wrote:

If something goes wrong again, you could get a hot water modem. You'd
have to subscribe to a hot water website also, but you can get up to 4
gallons an hour for a modest cost. The modem has a built-in spigot.

You're as amusing as the Mormon.

More so. And less likely to knock on your door with weird stories about
gold plates, magic translating stones, magic submarines, magic
underwear, and promises of becoming god one way for only 10% of
everything you earn.

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 18:44:30 -0800, Jennifer Murphy
wrote:

On Wed, 7 Jan 2015 17:42:49 -0800 (PST), bob_villa
wrote:

On Wednesday, January 7, 2015 7:29:57 PM UTC-6, micky wrote:

If something goes wrong again, you could get a hot water modem. You'd
have to subscribe to a hot water website also, but you can get up to 4
gallons an hour for a modest cost. The modem has a built-in spigot.

You're as amusing as the Mormon.

I don't expect you to appreciate humor. You're as stupid as a post.

More so. And less likely to knock on your door with weird stories about
gold plates, magic translating stones, magic submarines, magic
underwear, and promises of becoming god one way for only 10% of
everything you earn.

Thanks, I guess.

Jennifer,

Glad things are working out, and you do have a good sense of humor as well. That goes a long way in understanding many of the posters here on AHR.

On Wednesday, January 7, 2015 9:58:11 PM UTC-6, micky wrote:

I don't expect you to appreciate humor. You're as stupid as a post.

No one could be as stupidly absurd as your post.

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 18:40:49 -0800, Jennifer Murphy
wrote:

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 20:29:52 -0500, micky
wrote:

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 15:37:13 -0800, Jennifer Murphy
wrote:


Coincidentally, and total unrelated, the drain value developed a leaking
gasket, which made it look like the tank was leaking. Either one by
themselves would have been easier to diagnose -- at least for a
layperson. The plumber had no problem with it.

Great.

I should have hot water shortly.

Great.

If something goes wrong again, you could get a hot water modem. You'd
have to subscribe to a hot water website also, but you can get up to 4
galllons an hour for a modest cost. The modem has a built-in spigot.

We have Comcast, so we'd never get anywhere close to 4 galllons/hour. It
would take forever to fill even a one quart bottle, let alone a bathtub.
Plus it would go down all the time and it would cost an arm and a leg.

Sorry to hear all that. Maybe a satellite connection woudl work.
Just a thought.

On Wed, 7 Jan 2015 22:23:05 +0000 (UTC), HerHusband
wrote:

Hi Jennifer,

It looks like our water heater might be on its last legs. before
I order a new one, I thought I'd check out what the plumber told
me. What is the life expectancy of a good quality water heater?

I think the average is about 10-15 years, but there are a lot of
variables that could affect it's life span (usage, water quality,
electrolysis, etc.).

Ive had the same electric water heater for about 20 years. I have a
well, with some iron in the water, but basically good water. I drain
that tank once a year, sometimes twice. Never had any trouble with it
at all.

On the other hand, a nearby town with city water, has a severe problem
with calcium. The tanks literally fill with calcium in 5 years or less.
I've helped several guys in town replace these heaters. They are so
full of calcium that you cant get a drop of water out the drain valves.

I bought a trailer house from in town, which I bought just for storage,
so I wont connect water to it. It had a 30 gal. electric water heater,
which was only 2 years old. I removed it to fix a bad spot in the floor
under it, and took it outside Just for the heck of it, I dragged it
down by the barn, removed all the pipes and flipped it upside down.
Then I hooked a garden hose to the drain spigot on the bottom (which was
now on top), and let water run thru it. I ended up with a full 5 gallon
pail of calcium chunks on the ground, and a little more. I flushed it
for over 2 hours and the water finally came out clean.

Ive never hooked it up, but I think it should work. (It was working
when I got that trailer house). If I need to replace my water heater, I
would not hesitate to use this one. At worst, the lower element may be
bad from all the crud in the tank, but that's easy to fix.

On Wed, 7 Jan 2015 14:29:41 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

The dielectric union thing, I'm not convinced. If the old one had
corrosion at the transition point, then I'd use them. I've had water
heaters over many years, no DE unions, no corrosion issues. Code
may require them though in some places.



You DONT need a dielectric device if your pipes are PEX or CPVC
(plastic). But if your pipes are metal (especially copper), you SHOULD
use them. If you have plastic pipes and an electric water heater, be
sure to ground the tank to your breaker box ground. Gas heaters dont
need the electrical ground. Plus the gas pipe is metal anyhow and that
should ground it, even if it's not really needed.

BTW: Someone asked about those straps for keeping the tanks from tipping
in an earthquake prone area. I dont live in such an area, but I'd
surely use one if I did. Also, trailer houses need straps. I know a
guy who moves trailer houses and he had a tank tip over while he was
transporting a house. It made a big mess. Ever since then, he always
checks for straps and installs them if there are none, and he drains the
tanks too. New trailers always have them, but most often when someone
replaces a tank, they dont re-use them.

On Wed, 7 Jan 2015 23:46:43 +0000 (UTC), HerHusband
wrote:

Yep, the straps were a code requirement here in Washington state.

Just curious what they use in Wash state?
Where I live they are not required, but the trailer homes have them and
they are just a one or 1.5 inch wide piece of galv. tin. When that
trailer house mover has to replace them, he uses that 1" galv. pipe
hanging strap that has holes every 3/4 inch or so.

On Wednesday, January 7, 2015 6:36:18 PM UTC-5, Jennifer Murphy wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 12:34:31 -0800, Jennifer Murphy
wrote:

It looks like our water heater might be on its last legs. before I order
a new one, I thought I'd check out what the plumber told me.

What is the life expectancy of a good quality water heater?

What is a good quality water heater? Does the brand/model make that much
difference?

The heater is installed in an unheated basement room in a mild climate
(rarely under 40F and seldoim under 50F). Does having it wrapped in an
insulating pad matter much?

Anything else I should know before deciding on a new heater?

Thanks so much

The plumber just left. It was one of those odd combinations of events
that I am sure was cooked up by some god I offended somewhere along the
line.

The main problem was a failing heat sensor -- a coil of copper wires
that watches for overheating. It apparently thought it was hotter than
it really was, so it kept shutting the thing off after the water got
lukewarm.

Coincidentally, and total unrelated, the drain value developed a leaking
gasket, which made it look like the tank was leaking. Either one by
themselves would have been easier to diagnose -- at least for a
layperson. The plumber had no problem with it.

I should have hot water shortly.

Thank you all for your suggestions.

The drain valve ALWAYS leaks after the first annual sediment flush as a chunk of sediment will inevitably get stuck in the washer/seat interface. I replace boiler drain type valves (especially the cheezy plastic ones that seem to come on many new water heaters) as a matter of course with a ball valve. Usual setup would be a 3/4" NPT nipple to a 3/4" FPT ball valve and finally a 3/4" NPT to GHT fitting. I also put a brass GHT cap over the end so that if someone kicks the lever of the ball valve when not intending to drain the tank there's not a geyser of hot water shooting across the basement floor.

I also try to always have at least one or two GHT caps in my junk box because a quick fix for a leaking drain valve is to just cap it off until it can be repaired "properly" (or if it's on borrowed time, just left that way indefinitely.)

nate

Jennifer Murphy wrote:

It looks like our water heater might be on its last legs. before I
order a new one, I thought I'd check out what the plumber told me.

What is the life expectancy of a good quality water heater?

What is a good quality water heater? Does the brand/model make that
much difference?

The heater is installed in an unheated basement room in a mild climate
(rarely under 40F and seldoim under 50F). Does having it wrapped in an
insulating pad matter much?

Anything else I should know before deciding on a new heater?

Thanks so much


I had our 40 gallon gas water heater replaced recently. It is a Rheem
or Ruud, but I'm told they're essentially the same.

Originally I considered doing it myself but was hesitent due to there
being gas lines involved. After watching what the installer had to do
to make it fit properly I'm glad I let the professional take care of
it. I think the total cost was around $900, but it was a next day job.
I know that's steep, but I've dealt with these people before and they
are always professional and come out the same day. It was worth it to
me.

On Thursday, January 8, 2015 8:28:22 AM UTC-5, badgolferman wrote:
Jennifer Murphy wrote:

It looks like our water heater might be on its last legs. before I
order a new one, I thought I'd check out what the plumber told me.

What is the life expectancy of a good quality water heater?

What is a good quality water heater? Does the brand/model make that
much difference?

The heater is installed in an unheated basement room in a mild climate
(rarely under 40F and seldoim under 50F). Does having it wrapped in an
insulating pad matter much?

Anything else I should know before deciding on a new heater?

Thanks so much


I had our 40 gallon gas water heater replaced recently. It is a Rheem
or Ruud, but I'm told they're essentially the same.

Originally I considered doing it myself but was hesitent due to there
being gas lines involved. After watching what the installer had to do
to make it fit properly I'm glad I let the professional take care of
it. I think the total cost was around $900, but it was a next day job.
I know that's steep, but I've dealt with these people before and they
are always professional and come out the same day. It was worth it to
me.

That doesn't necessarily sound steep to me, depending on what WH
was used. I'd say it's probably typical.

trader_4 wrote:

On Thursday, January 8, 2015 8:28:22 AM UTC-5, badgolferman wrote:
Jennifer Murphy wrote:

It looks like our water heater might be on its last legs. before I
order a new one, I thought I'd check out what the plumber told
me.
What is the life expectancy of a good quality water heater?

What is a good quality water heater? Does the brand/model make
that much difference?

The heater is installed in an unheated basement room in a mild
climate (rarely under 40F and seldoim under 50F). Does having it
wrapped in an insulating pad matter much?

Anything else I should know before deciding on a new heater?

Thanks so much


I had our 40 gallon gas water heater replaced recently. It is a
Rheem or Ruud, but I'm told they're essentially the same.

Originally I considered doing it myself but was hesitent due to
there being gas lines involved. After watching what the installer
had to do to make it fit properly I'm glad I let the professional
take care of it. I think the total cost was around $900, but it
was a next day job. I know that's steep, but I've dealt with
these people before and they are always professional and come out
the same day. It was worth it to me.

That doesn't necessarily sound steep to me, depending on what WH
was used. I'd say it's probably typical.


RUUD PROG40S, P2-40SF

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 22:58:07 -0500, micky
wrote:

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 18:44:30 -0800, Jennifer Murphy
wrote:

On Wed, 7 Jan 2015 17:42:49 -0800 (PST), bob_villa
wrote:

On Wednesday, January 7, 2015 7:29:57 PM UTC-6, micky wrote:

If something goes wrong again, you could get a hot water modem. You'd
have to subscribe to a hot water website also, but you can get up to 4
gallons an hour for a modest cost. The modem has a built-in spigot.

You're as amusing as the Mormon.

I don't expect you to appreciate humor. You're as stupid as a post.

More so. And less likely to knock on your door with weird stories about
gold plates, magic translating stones, magic submarines, magic
underwear, and promises of becoming god one way for only 10% of
everything you earn.

Thanks, I guess.

Do you have any idea to whom you are responding?

On Thu, 8 Jan 2015 03:23:40 -0800 (PST), N8N wrote:

The plumber just left. It was one of those odd combinations of events
that I am sure was cooked up by some god I offended somewhere along the
line.

The main problem was a failing heat sensor -- a coil of copper wires
that watches for overheating. It apparently thought it was hotter than
it really was, so it kept shutting the thing off after the water got
lukewarm.

Coincidentally, and total unrelated, the drain value developed a leaking
gasket, which made it look like the tank was leaking. Either one by
themselves would have been easier to diagnose -- at least for a
layperson. The plumber had no problem with it.

I should have hot water shortly.

Thank you all for your suggestions.

The drain valve ALWAYS leaks after the first annual sediment flush as a chunk of sediment will inevitably get stuck in the washer/seat interface.

I have never drained the tank. I asked the plumber about that. He said
there is no need to drain them. I didn't ask if he meant just in this
area or anywhere.

I replace boiler drain type valves (especially the cheezy plastic ones that seem to come on many new water heaters) as a matter of course with a ball valve. Usual setup would be a 3/4" NPT nipple to a 3/4" FPT ball valve and finally a 3/4" NPT to GHT fitting. I also put a brass GHT cap over the end so that if someone kicks the lever of the ball valve when not intending to drain the tank there's not a geyser of hot water shooting across the basement floor.

I also try to always have at least one or two GHT caps in my junk box because a quick fix for a leaking drain valve is to just cap it off until it can be repaired "properly" (or if it's on borrowed time, just left that way indefinitely.)

The plumber put a cap on it.

On Wed, 7 Jan 2015 20:08:00 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

Jennifer,

Glad things are working out,

Thanks

and you do have a good sense of humor as well. That goes a long way in understanding many of the posters here on AHR.

That and just considering the source...

Yep, the straps were a code requirement here in Washington state.

Just curious what they use in Wash state?
Where I live they are not required, but the trailer homes have them and
they are just a one or 1.5 inch wide piece of galv. tin. When that
trailer house mover has to replace them, he uses that 1" galv. pipe
hanging strap that has holes every 3/4 inch or so.

The strap I used was sold specifically as a water heater strap at one of
the Home Centers, like this one.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_46597-11713-...ductId=3134527

It is basically just a 1-1/2" galvanized strip of metal that wraps around
the tank and bolts to the wall (I used lag bolts and large washers).

It comes in two halves that overlap in front of the water heater. There is
a bolt on the front that you adjust to tighten the strap securely around
the water heater.

It's only $20, cheap insurance to secure the tank, and it's reusable when
the time comes to replace the water heater.

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

In article ,
lid says...

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 19:49:45 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 07 Jan 2015 15:37:13 -0800, Jennifer Murphy
wrote:

The plumber just left. It was one of those odd combinations of events
that I am sure was cooked up by some god I offended somewhere along the
line.

The main problem was a failing heat sensor -- a coil of copper wires
that watches for overheating. It apparently thought it was hotter than
it really was, so it kept shutting the thing off after the water got
lukewarm.

Coincidentally, and total unrelated, the drain value developed a leaking
gasket, which made it look like the tank was leaking. Either one by
themselves would have been easier to diagnose -- at least for a
layperson. The plumber had no problem with it.

I should have hot water shortly.

Thank you all for your suggestions.

It sounds like you got an honest guy there. He could have easily sold
you a new water heater.

We've used this company for 20 years, so they would not benefit from
cheating us. We also have a very active neighborhood community, which,
since the Internet, is online and very dynamic. Any shenanigans wohild
quickly spread through the community with severe consequences. This
company is well respected.

You likely wouldn't have known that he was cheating you, since you were
already mentally primed for a replacement. Thus, he would have suffered
no bad press had he replaced it.

I would have this guy on speed dial (is that expression dated?)