Is there a single useful Apple iOS camera capability that isn't already on
Android?

The question was posed today on the iOS newsgroup, where nobody on that
newsgroup knows cameras well enough to find a *single* useful Apple iOS
phone camera functionality that isn't already on Android.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc...4/6tBWXoxuBgAJ

Even Savageduck, an avowed digital expert, hasn't named a single one.

It's a valid question, especially since most iOS users seem to blindly
assume there must be something, anything, that the Apple iOS phone cameras
can do that Android phone cameras don't already do.

Nospam named two but both are already on Android:
1. portrait mode -- already on Android
2. optical zoom -- already on Android

It's a fair digital photo question, especially since many people blindly
assume that what the Apple Marketing Machine tells them is truth.

Is there a single useful Apple iOS camera capability that isn't already on
Android?

--
QUOTED REFERENCES
Hands-on with the new Portrait Mode beta on iPhone 7 Plus
https://9to5mac.com/2016/09/21/hands...iphone-7-plus/
Portrait Mode requires plenty of light. Shots won't turn out as well
in low light, and at times you¢ll get a "more light required" warning.
Portrait Mode only works with the iSight Duo (rear facing) Camera on
the iPhone 7 Plus.
Portrait Mode does not work with video.
You'll need to be at least eight feet away from your subject.
Portrait Mode works with people and inanimate objects.
Portrait Mode contains a 3 or 10-second timer.

Hands on with the iPhone 7 Plus¢ crazy new Portrait mode
https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/21/ha...portrait-mode/
How does it work?
"It uses technology from LiNx, a company Apple acquired, to create
data the image processor can use to craft a 3D terrain map of its
surroundings."

"There is no zooming, digital or otherwise, in Portrait mode.
Instead, the Portrait mode exclusively uses the 56mm lens to shoot
the image and the wide angle lens to gather the depth data that
allows it to generate a 9-layer map."

How to Take 'Portrait Mode' Pictures on Android Like on the iPhone 7 Plus
https://android.gadgethacks.com/how-...-plus-0174262/

"The Google Camera app achieves this effect by creating a 3D map
of the scene while you're moving your phone, which allows it to
know which objects are closer to or further from the lens.
*This is the same way the iPhone 7 Plus works*, but it creates
the 3D map on the fly, whereas Google Camera does it after
you've taken a shot."

On 2017-04-30 02:17:34 +0000, Tomos Davies said:

Is there a single useful Apple iOS camera capability that isn't already on
Android?

The question was posed today on the iOS newsgroup, where nobody on that
newsgroup knows cameras well enough to find a *single* useful Apple iOS
phone camera functionality that isn't already on Android.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc...4/6tBWXoxuBgAJ

Even

Savageduck, an avowed digital expert, hasn't named a single one.

....and if you think I am going to be baited into playing your game just
because you have added rec.photo.digital to the NG distribution you are
mistaken. I have told you that I am done with you.

So good bye.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

Follow up to: rec.photo.digital

In article ,
Tomos Davies wrote:

Is there a single useful Apple iOS camera capability that isn't already on
Android?

The question was posed today on the iOS newsgroup, where nobody on that
newsgroup knows cameras well enough to find a *single* useful Apple iOS
phone camera functionality that isn't already on Android.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc...w1o4/6tBWXoxuB
gAJ

I don't think that folk get themselves an iPhone for the sake of
photography. DxOmark reviews do not indicate that iPhones would be more
then on par at best:

https://www.dxomark.com/Mobiles Scores on the right.

If you want to improve on your iPhones pictures then I would ponder the
DxO One addon that makes your iPhone an one inch camera:

http://www.dxo.com/us/dxo-one?utm_so...m=display&utm_
content=footer&utm_campaign=rawlala

I have a Xperia M4 and spend my money on real gear.
--
teleportation kills

In news:2017042919514621210-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, Savageduck
suggested:

...and if you think I am going to be baited into playing your game just
because you have added rec.photo.digital to the NG distribution you are
mistaken. I have told you that I am done with you.

All that matters is that you are the most well known expert in digital
photography on the iOS newsgroups, where your own verifiable words today
are in message ID 2017042920105676737-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom

"In terms of camera function on iOS or Android devices of similar spec
there little to no difference, particularly with current phones."

In , Bill W suggested:

I don't think functions are the claimed difference. I've always heard
claims of superior image quality. I have no knowledge of that either
way.

To that end, here is a scientific assessment of the "image & video quality"
pf Apple iOS and Android devices based on a reference kindly supplied today
by user "android" in this thread:

https://www.dxomark.com
"DxO has extensively analyzed the image and video quality of
over 9,000 cameras, lenses and mobile phones. These analyses
are used by top camera manufacturers, media and help power
DxO software. DxOMark provides free public access to these
results to help guide your camera and lens decisions."

89
- Google Pixel
88
- HTC 10
- Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge
- Sony Xperia X Performance
87
- Huawei P10
- Moto Z Force Droid
- Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge Plus
- Sony Xperia XZ
- Sony Xperia Z5
86
- Apple iPhone 7
- LG G5
- Samsung Galaxy Note V
- Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge
85
- Huawei Mate 9
- LG V20
84
- Apple iPhone 6s Plus
- Apple iPhone 6s
- Google Nexus 6P
- Moto Z Droid
- Moto G Plus
- Moto Droid Turbo 2
83
- LG G4
- Moto X Style
- Samsung Galaxy Note 4
82
- Apple iPhone 6s
- Apple iPhone 6 Plus
- Apple iPhone 6
- BlackBerry Priv
- Sony Xperia Z3+
- TCL 950
81
- Nextbit Robin
80
- Huawei P9
79
- Samsung Galaxy S5
- Sony Xperia M5
- Sony Xperia Z3
- Sony Xperia Z2
- Xiaomi Mi 5
78
- Google Nexus 6
- HTC One A9
- Xiaomi Mi 5SPlus
77
- Nokia 808 Pureview
- Nubia Z11
76
- Apple iPhone 5S
- OnePlus 2
- Sony Xperia Z1
75
- Samsung Galaxy S4
74
- Huawei P8
- Meizu Pro 6
- Nokia Lumia 1020
73
- LG G2
- Nokia Lumia 925
- Qiku Q Terra
72
- Apple iPhone 5
- Apple iPhone 4S
- Samsung Note II
- Samsung Galaxy S3
70
- GoPro HERO3
69
- Amazon Firephone
- HTC ONE M9
68
- HTC ONE M8
67
- BlackBerry Z10
66
- HTC 8X
- Nokia Lumia 920
61
- Sony Xperia Z
59
- Apple New iPad
57
- Samsung Galaxy S2
50
- Apple iPhone 4

REFERENCE: https://www.dxomark.com/Mobiles

On 4/29/2017 10:17 PM, Tomos Davies wrote:
Is there a single useful Apple iOS camera capability that isn't already on
Android?

The question was posed today on the iOS newsgroup, where nobody on that
newsgroup knows cameras well enough to find a *single* useful Apple iOS
phone camera functionality that isn't already on Android.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc...4/6tBWXoxuBgAJ

Even Savageduck, an avowed digital expert, hasn't named a single one.

It's a valid question, especially since most iOS users seem to blindly
assume there must be something, anything, that the Apple iOS phone cameras
can do that Android phone cameras don't already do.

Nospam named two but both are already on Android:
1. portrait mode -- already on Android
2. optical zoom -- already on Android

It's a fair digital photo question, especially since many people blindly
assume that what the Apple Marketing Machine tells them is truth.

Is there a single useful Apple iOS camera capability that isn't already on
Android?


Why are you concerned with what is or isn't between the two? Why does it
matter what anyone thinks? If you don't like iPhone or Apple products,
don't buy it. It's that simple. Instead, whiners such as yourself go to
extremes with attempts to prove a point usually caused by your own
inferior and invidious issues. Get over it and stop crossposting because
they no longer give you attention.

In news
Why are you concerned with what is or isn't between the two? Why does it
matter what anyone thinks? If you don't like iPhone or Apple products,
don't buy it. It's that simple. Instead, whiners such as yourself go to
extremes with attempts to prove a point usually caused by your own
inferior and invidious issues. Get over it and stop crossposting because
they no longer give you attention.

The Apple iOS users always *claim* that their camera can do things that
Android cameras can't, yet nobody can get an answer out of them as to what
on earth that could possibly be.

But, they're positive that their cameras are better than Android cameras.
In fact, they're positive that their software can "do stuff" that Android
can't do.

Yet, they can't think of a single thing that they can do that Android
doesn't do, where it's clear that there are tons of things that Android
does that iOS can't hope to do.

SO the question is what on earth are they thinking that iOS cameras can do
that Android cameras don't already do. You can't get the answer out of them
because it's their religion so they just believe it.

But not everyone is a believer in everything the Apple Marketing God tells
them to believe.

I am interested in psychology where the psychology of a guy who does his
own home repair (eg if he runs his own smoke test to fix lean condition
codes, he's a totally different type of person who sends the car to the
stealer for the same task) or a guy who is concerned with chromatic
aberration is a totally different kind of person than someone who takes all
their photos with a mobile device.

It turns out that the person who loves iOS, psychologically, is a cripple
in many ways, just like the operating system is, in that they seem to want
to take *all* their directives from the Apple Mother Ship, who is, by the
way, perfectly happy to oblige them (by feeding them exactly what they want
to hear).

Hence, the Apple iOS device users actually think their "cameras" take
decent pictures (because that's what the Mother Ship told communicated to
the Apple Marketing GPU embedded in their frontal cortex).

What's worse, if you point out the truth to them, they take it as an
affront to their religion, in that their religion knows no facts whatsoever
- and - in fact - they actually truly believe that there is some
functionality (any functionality) on iOS that is not already on Android.

That's just not true.

There is absolutely no fumnctionality whatsoever (camera or otherwise) that
is on Apple iOS products that isn't already on Android - and - since
Android is a superset - there is tons of functionality on Android that is
not allowed by Apple for iOS users.

Things like the ability to organize your desktop any way you want which are
so trivial on Android that it's utterly shocking that the simplest of
organizational tasks are impossible on iOS.

For example, this is a screenshot of my one desktop screen, which is
impossible to even get close to on all my iOS devices.
http://i.cubeupload.com/DHN8PC.gif

It's so trivial to set up the phone the way I like on Android that when I
try to organize iOS, it's amazing how crippled the entire platform is.

It's a verifiable fact that the Apple iOS user is crippled (by Apple) in
what they can do (and their psychology is that they feel "safe" by being
crippled in what they can do), and yet, the hardware is "about the same" as
on Android (so it's not the hardware that is crippling what the iOS apps
can do).
How are they going to load any app launcher?
Where is the app drawer functionality on iOS?
Why can't iOS users put app icons in different folders?
Why can't they simply delete any app icon they want to?
Why can't they do something as simple as name an icon to what they want?
Where's the youtube without ads functionality on iOS?
What about bit torrenting on iOS?
Heck, why can't iOS even tell the user the unique cell tower ID anymore?
Why can't iOS give a graph of the wifi signal strength over time?
Where's the FM radio on Apple devices if the user wants one?
What about expandable storage if the user wants it?
What about a user-replaceable battery upgrade if the user wants it
(this list of what Androidd does that Apple iOS can't goes on and on).

Meanwhile, the Android user, psychologically, is a completely different
user who, mostly, just buys on price performance is is willing to
understand and listen to facts about the platform.

So, as both an Android and iOS user, all I'm trying to find out is what (if
anything) can iOS do that Android doesn't already do, where this question
is specifically related to cameras.

I'm not afraid of the truth - but so far - the truth seems to be there is
absolutely nothing. And yet, their religion is such that they swear there
must be something (anything!) that Apple iOS devices can do that the
Android devices don't, by way of meaningful functionality.

Fine. I'm happy for them (and for me).
And yet, they still can't name a single bit of useful functionality.

Why not?

On 4/30/17 11:17 AM, Tomos Davies wrote:

Some cut.

The Apple iOS users always *claim* that their camera can do things that
Android cameras can't, yet nobody can get an answer out of them as to what
on earth that could possibly be.

A bunch cut.

It's probably nothing fancy other than habit. The individual
using it can do things easily with his iOS that would be tougher on
Android.
What happens when you hop into an unfamiliar vehicle?

On 2017-04-30, Tomos Davies wrote:
In news
Why are you concerned with what is or isn't between the two? Why does it
matter what anyone thinks? If you don't like iPhone or Apple products,
don't buy it. It's that simple. Instead, whiners such as yourself go to
extremes with attempts to prove a point usually caused by your own
inferior and invidious issues. Get over it and stop crossposting because
they no longer give you attention.

The Apple iOS users always *claim*

Unlike you, the Apple-hating zealot troll, people in the Apple news
groups aren't obsessed with whether Apple's stuff is better. A quick
scan of past threads shows the only threads where ****ing matches are
happening are threads created by *you*. The only reason this topic comes
up at all in the Apple news groups is because *you* are here bringing it
up. You apparently have no life, and get your sick kicks disrupting
otherwise peaceful news groups in an all-out effort to aggravate people
you don't even know in news groups for products you admittedly disdain.
You're a pathetic old man.

[remainder of your useless trollish ramblings rightfully ignored]

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 11:32:31 -0500
Dean Hoffman wrote:

What happens when you hop into an unfamiliar vehicle?


I hear sirens and see pretty flashing lights!

Tomos Davies wrote:


Is there a single useful Apple iOS camera capability that isn't already on
Android?

What can Android do that my iPad can't? And since I also have a real
camera, a Nikon, that is pretty shockproof, waterproof, and can do things
neither iPad or some Android thing can do, what does it matter?


--
biblioholic medievalist via iPad

Tomos Davies wrote:
In news
I'm not afraid of the truth - but so far - the truth seems to be there is
absolutely nothing. And yet, their religion is such that they swear there
must be something (anything!) that Apple iOS devices can do that the
Android devices don't, by way of meaningful functionality.

As an actual camera user for over 70 years, no overpriced phone will ever
take the place of a good camera for me.



--
biblioholic medievalist via iPad

On 4/30/2017 12:17 PM, Tomos Davies wrote:


The Apple iOS users always *claim* that their camera can do things that
Android cameras can't, yet nobody can get an answer out of them as to what
on earth that could possibly be.


SNIP! Irrelevant ranting.

SO WHAT?


I am interested in psychology

No, you're interested in proving them wrong and that ridiculous run-on
tripe of a reply proves it. You are incapable of letting it go for those
to believe as they want. Millions of people believe in ghosts, aliens,
Yeti/Bigfoot, Zombies, etc, will you post lengthy rants to them also?
Their belief doesn't harm you or others unless you have inferior egos
which you are clearly harboring.

Obviously someone got under your skin and you are wearing your emotions
on your sleeve. Get over it already.

On 4/30/2017 3:39 PM, Erilar wrote:
Tomos Davies wrote:


Is there a single useful Apple iOS camera capability that isn't already on
Android?

What can Android do that my iPad can't? And since I also have a real
camera, a Nikon, that is pretty shockproof, waterproof, and can do things
neither iPad or some Android thing can do, what does it matter?



It doesn't. It only matters to the owner/user if the features of a
product works for the intent for which they purchased. Of course, it
also matters to the insecure whiners who can't ignore when someone
thinks they have a great product. It's similar to motorcycle riders who
hate HD owners because HD owners still think it's all American and the
ultimate machine. Big deal! Friendly banter is one thing, over zealous
attempts to prove otherwise is childishly inferior and asinine.

In , Jolly Roger suggested:

Unlike you, the Apple-hating zealot troll,

What's funny is if they look up "troll & Jolly Roger" that has more hits
than *any* other keyword combination with troll in the iOS newsgroups!

Try it:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/troll$20jolly$20roger%7C

You have proven yourself incapable of adding value to *any* technical
discussion.

This one is specifically seeking something on Apple iOS mobile cameras that
isn't already on Android.

Can you answer *that* question?

No?
Thought so.

You're the very definition of troll (just run the same search in the iPad
newsgroup and YOU come up most when the word is associated with you).

I only speak verifiable facts.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/jolly$20roger$20troll

In news
It doesn't. It only matters to the owner/user if the features of a
product works for the intent for which they purchased. Of course, it
also matters to the insecure whiners who can't ignore when someone
thinks they have a great product. It's similar to motorcycle riders who
hate HD owners because HD owners still think it's all American and the
ultimate machine. Big deal! Friendly banter is one thing, over zealous
attempts to prove otherwise is childishly inferior and asinine.

As a rider myself, I can categorically say that it's my opinion that no HD
owner actually thinks his bike is "better" functionally than other bikes.

It's completely different. It's American iron.
It's iconic. It's historic (Milwaukee even trademarked the *sound* they
emit, for heaven's sake, so that it wouldn't be copied by the rice
burners).

But nobody riding a Harley thinks the bike stands a snowball's chance in
Hell outperforming even a rice burner of similar size, let alone a beemer.

The Hog owner *knows* his machine's limitations, unlike the iPhone/iPad
owner.

In news
You are incapable of letting it go for those
to believe as they want. Millions of people believe in ghosts, aliens,
Yeti/Bigfoot, Zombies, etc,

You forgot the global warming hoaxers versus deniers ...

That's another religion devoid of facts where people get upset the moment
you ask them to prove their "facts".

But let's not get started on that...

On 4/30/2017 5:06 PM, Tomos Davies wrote:
In news
You are incapable of letting it go for those
to believe as they want. Millions of people believe in ghosts, aliens,
Yeti/Bigfoot, Zombies, etc,

You forgot the global warming hoaxers versus deniers ...

That's another religion devoid of facts where people get upset the moment
you ask them to prove their "facts".

But let's not get started on that...



"ETC" means "many more". Conspiracy theorists are everywhere. If they
don't want to heed the facts the first time....let it go! Tunnel vision
is incurable.

On 4/30/2017 5:06 PM, Tomos Davies wrote:
In news
It doesn't. It only matters to the owner/user if the features of a
product works for the intent for which they purchased. Of course, it
also matters to the insecure whiners who can't ignore when someone
thinks they have a great product. It's similar to motorcycle riders who
hate HD owners because HD owners still think it's all American and the
ultimate machine. Big deal! Friendly banter is one thing, over zealous
attempts to prove otherwise is childishly inferior and asinine.

As a rider myself, I can categorically say that it's my opinion that no HD
owner actually thinks his bike is "better" functionally than other bikes.

Nowhere did I say "better".

It's completely different. It's American iron.
It's iconic. It's historic (Milwaukee even trademarked the *sound* they
emit, for heaven's sake, so that it wouldn't be copied by the rice
burners).

Check your facts. They tried for 6 years and withdrew the application in
2000 claiming it had won in the court of public opinion. They also tried
to trademark the term "Hog" and failed.

But nobody riding a Harley thinks the bike stands a snowball's chance in
Hell outperforming even a rice burner of similar size, let alone a beemer.


You need to get out more and check those facts as well instead of
whining in forums with attempted chest thumping of issues your insecure
ego can't handle.


The Hog owner *knows* his machine's limitations, unlike the iPhone/iPad
owner.


Yet many inferior souls don't know their limitations of whining levels.

In news
What can Android do that my iPad can't? And since I also have a real
camera, a Nikon, that is pretty shockproof, waterproof, and can do things
neither iPad or some Android thing can do, what does it matter?

Erilar,

I only speak facts.
But I don't mince words.
Meanie is completely wrong.

He doesn't appear to know what he's talking about.
He's just guessing. Or, he's parrotting what Apple told him to say.

You can tell he has no idea what he's talking about because not only is he
dead wrong, but he provided you with zero facts that support his opinion
that they have the same app functionality.

When it's easily provable otherwise.

The Android device has so much more app functionality than an iPad or
iPhone that it's not even close. It's a superset. But it depends on what
you actually *do* with the device.

BTW, it's not the Apple hardware that makes Apple mobile devices inferior
in functionality to Android app functionality because Apple hardware is
generally pretty good.

It's Apple who cripples what the apps can do functionally.

Even jailbroken, Apple iOS devices are less functional than similarly
rooted Android devices, but that's more due to the market catering to
rooted devices than to the hardware since theorectially, once you remove
Apple's shackles, the hardware is about the same.

Assuming non jailbroken non rooted devices, there's no question that
Android device functionality is a superset of iOS functionality.

But everything depends on what *you* care about.
If all you do is web browse, watch videos, and snap photos, the fact that
iOS app functionality is cripped won't even be noticeable to you.

But if you want to organize your desktop the way you want, and as I have my
Android device organized, you'll find *that* completely impossible on iOS:

An organizational task as trivially simple as putting an icon wherever you
want it on your desktop, on any grid, of any size, in any location, is just
impossible on the primitive iOS app launcher.
http://i.cubeupload.com/XchWXl.gif

On the primitive iOS launcher, you can't do the simplest organizational
tasks such as renaming icons; you can't delete any one you one from your
desktop (on iOS you can only delete "some"); you can't put them in
duplicate locations; you can't have them organized in a fully functional
app-drawer app (all you can do is make dumb folders named "app drawer", as
if Apple expects every user to come up with their own solution.

The primitive look and feel of iOS extends far (much further) than just the
primitive app launcher in that on iOS you can't even select a *different*
app launcher (which is trivial to do on Android) which has other features.

The iOS apps themselves are crippled.

For example, on Android it's trivial to watch youtube videos without ever
seeing any ads, and to download either the audio or the video of those
youtube videos from that same app. On iOS you will never be ad free like
you are on Android and you have to resort to third party web sites or some
other mechanism just to download the video or audio.

On iOS, you can't bit torrent. Apple won't let you. On Android you can.

On iOS, you can't even get a graphical display of your wifi output over
time for heaven's sake. Something as simple as indicating the cellular
tower strength and unique cell id is impossible on iOS, for example.

On iOS, you can't even output your list of installed apps to an editable
text files, for heaven's sake, without having to install iTunes on a
separate computer just to do something as simple as that.

You can't save your APK (app installer zip files) after the fact and then
reinstall them on any similar iOS device, which is trivial to do on
Android.

If you want Wifi or cellular connection logging, it's trivial on Android,
and impossible on iOS. Same with automatic call answering and automatic
call recording (although nospam just recently said it was finally on iOS
but he lies so often that we'd have to doublecheck everything he says - but
I'm willing to check that for you if you're interested).

You can't even back up the *entire* device (the iOS users "say" they can
but they have a different (ka Apple Marketing) definition of "entire" than
the rest of the world does). Hence backtracking in versions is vastly more
problematic on iOS than on Android.

Heck, you can't even bluetooth a file from an iOS device to *any* computer
not on a local network (aka an "ad hoc network" or "ad hoc file transfer
services", because Apple feels you don't need to ever do that (except when
you do - the Apple users just give up and you get your files across).

You can't set the screen orientation by app on iOS, and you can't have it
different for the desktop versus for the apps either.

And we're not even talking about the crippling hardware limitations of all
Apple mobile devices such as the batteries, external storage, inductive
coupling, native dual sims, FM radios, etc. (which some Android devices
also lack).

And that's just some stuff I know about offhand, where every one of those
issues above has its own thread on how to do it in the Apple newsgroups,
where the answer is that not a single iOS user can do it.

They *say* they do it - but not one of them actually can because all they
do is lie about things which are factually provable.

Given that's the list I thought of, offhand, for you, you can imagine how
many *other* things Android does that iOS can't do. Remember, we've *asked*
many times if there is any app functionality that iOS can do that Android
doesn't already do, and *nobody* can come up with anything more than Apple
trademarks for things that already exist on Android (e.g., payment methods,
file transfer methods, remote dialing methods, etc.).

Bear in mind that Meanie responded to you without providing any facts
whereas I provide verifiable fact. Keep that in mind.

Having said that I provide verifiable facts, it may be that all you do is
browse the web and listen to music on your iPad, in which case the two
platforms are functionally similar.

It's only when you try to do stuff not scripted by the Apple Marketing
Machine that you find out that it's impossible to do *lots* of stuff on the
primitive closed-system iOS interface, which is trivial to do on the more
modern more open Android interface.

I hope you appreciate the detail because most people won't risk stating
facts on a Usenet thread but I do and while the iOS users will scream and
cry that my facts are wrong - you'll notice that they will NOT provide the
facts to support their opinion.

In news
"ETC" means "many more". Conspiracy theorists are everywhere. If they
don't want to heed the facts the first time....let it go! Tunnel vision
is incurable.

Good point. Thank you for pointing out the "etc".
I stand corrected, and gladly so.

In news
As a rider myself, I can categorically say that it's my opinion that no HD
owner actually thinks his bike is "better" functionally than other bikes.

Nowhere did I say "better".

Thank you for pointing out the distinction.

In both cases though, the distinction is that the *personality* of the
person who choose one platform over the other is distinctly different.

HOG vs Beemer vs RICER (totally different personalities & affluence levels)
iOS vs Android (completely different personalities in most cases)

It's sort of like the difference in personality between some guy who asks
What synthetic oil does BMW tell me to put in my bimmer?

Anyone who even *asks* that question should get the answer that you should
only put in LL-01 certified oil (depending on the model year) and nothing
else (which knocks out perfectly good oils simply because they're not
certified).

But a person who asks simply "what oil do you use" gets a different answer,
that has a bit more detail such as API quality levels and SAE viscosity
constraints and cost/composition considerations (given there are multiple
"types" of motor oils that meet API and SAE needs at the base level).

My point is that the iOS user and Android user personality follows the same
pattern that you can tell, from the question, what the user *wants* to hear
as the answer.

One wants to feel "safe" by the answer; the other just wants the correct
answer.

Check your facts. They tried for 6 years and withdrew the application in
2000 claiming it had won in the court of public opinion. They also tried
to trademark the term "Hog" and failed.

Thanks for correcting the trademarking of the distinctive tailpipe sound.
I had always thought that a rather unusual request for respite from
competition.

You need to get out more and check those facts as well instead of
whining in forums with attempted chest thumping of issues your insecure
ego can't handle.

I think my ego is quite secure, but you're welcome to attack my facts.
I learn from what others say and I'm not afraid to state the facts.

The Hog owner *knows* his machine's limitations, unlike the iPhone/iPad
owner.


Yet many inferior souls don't know their limitations of whining levels.

Look above to see who is actually whining.

I presented verifiable facts in my answer to Erilar for example.
Where are yours to support your (completely wrong) answer to Erilar?

If you can't tell us that my facts are wrong, then your answer to her was
dead wrong - and therefore you did her a disservice.

On 4/30/2017 6:24 PM, Tomos Davies wrote:
In news
As a rider myself, I can categorically say that it's my opinion that no HD
owner actually thinks his bike is "better" functionally than other bikes.

Nowhere did I say "better".

Thank you for pointing out the distinction.

In both cases though, the distinction is that the *personality* of the
person who choose one platform over the other is distinctly different.

HOG vs Beemer vs RICER (totally different personalities & affluence levels)
iOS vs Android (completely different personalities in most cases)

It's sort of like the difference in personality between some guy who asks
What synthetic oil does BMW tell me to put in my bimmer?

Anyone who even *asks* that question should get the answer that you should
only put in LL-01 certified oil (depending on the model year) and nothing
else (which knocks out perfectly good oils simply because they're not
certified).

But a person who asks simply "what oil do you use" gets a different answer,
that has a bit more detail such as API quality levels and SAE viscosity
constraints and cost/composition considerations (given there are multiple
"types" of motor oils that meet API and SAE needs at the base level).

My point is that the iOS user and Android user personality follows the same
pattern that you can tell, from the question, what the user *wants* to hear
as the answer.

One wants to feel "safe" by the answer; the other just wants the correct
answer.

Check your facts. They tried for 6 years and withdrew the application in
2000 claiming it had won in the court of public opinion. They also tried
to trademark the term "Hog" and failed.

Thanks for correcting the trademarking of the distinctive tailpipe sound.
I had always thought that a rather unusual request for respite from
competition.

You need to get out more and check those facts as well instead of
whining in forums with attempted chest thumping of issues your insecure
ego can't handle.

I think my ego is quite secure, but you're welcome to attack my facts.
I learn from what others say and I'm not afraid to state the facts.

The Hog owner *knows* his machine's limitations, unlike the iPhone/iPad
owner.


Yet many inferior souls don't know their limitations of whining levels.

Look above to see who is actually whining.

I presented verifiable facts in my answer to Erilar for example.
Where are yours to support your (completely wrong) answer to Erilar?

WTF? I'm not reading Erilar's replies or disputing anything about the
IOS. I'm calling you out on your pathetic diatribes while cross posting
in a group not even associated with iPhone or electronics for that matter.

If you can't tell us that my facts are wrong, then your answer to her was
dead wrong - and therefore you did her a disservice.

Again, WTF are you talking about? No, forget that. I don't care. You
have issues.

What part of "let it go" do you fail to comprehend? You thumped your
chest with your so called facts about IOS.....BRAVO! Job well done? You
da man! You just don't know when to quit. Fortunately, I do.

On 4/30/2017 6:24 PM, Tomos Davies wrote:


You need to get out more and check those facts as well instead of
whining in forums with attempted chest thumping of issues your insecure
ego can't handle.

I think my ego is quite secure, but you're welcome to attack my facts.
I learn from what others say and I'm not afraid to state the facts.

BTW, you aren't stating facts. You were wrong about HD's trademark and
assuming all HD owners think alike. Don't confuse your opinion with
facts. Facts = truth. You stated nothing of the sort. I'm beginning to
see the problem with you.

In message Erilar wrote:
Tomos Davies wrote:


Is there a single useful Apple iOS camera capability that isn't already on
Android?

What can Android do that my iPad can't?

Sooooo many thing:

Run viruses.
Install Rootkits to send all your data (ALL) to China.

Install firmware viruses that you cannot mitigate against

Run "normal" apps that invade your privacy and track everything you do
and everywhere you go and send that data to ad bots, malware bots, and
nefarious hosts that will pwn your device.

Install software you didn't know was being installed or want installed
along side something you thought you did want.

Automatically place calls to very expensive "900" type numbers or make
"in-app" purchases without you knowledge.

Watermark your photographs with your personal information so that
"authorities" can prove you were the one who took a picture they didn't
like.

Automatically send all your photographs to a government agency (or
private company) without your knowledge.

Run background tasks indiscriminately that drain your battery and your
data allotment.

And so many other things.

Yeah, Android CAN do so much more.

--
Don't congratulate yourself too much, or berate yourself either. You
choices are half chance; so are everybody else's.

In article , Tomos Davies
wrote:

How are they going to load any app launcher?
Where is the app drawer functionality on iOS?
Why can't iOS users put app icons in different folders?
Why can't they simply delete any app icon they want to?
Why can't they do something as simple as name an icon to what they want?
Where's the youtube without ads functionality on iOS?
What about bit torrenting on iOS?
Heck, why can't iOS even tell the user the unique cell tower ID anymore?
Why can't iOS give a graph of the wifi signal strength over time?
Where's the FM radio on Apple devices if the user wants one?
What about expandable storage if the user wants it?
What about a user-replaceable battery upgrade if the user wants it
(this list of what Androidd does that Apple iOS can't goes on and on).

The typical Apple user doesn't care about any of that stuff. Bit
Torrent? REALLY? I think the perceived comparison exists only in your
mind. Trust me, I worked for Apple for many years - the Apple user
cares about getting high quality funtionality simply, easily, and
elegantly. The details of the specs really don't matter. Matter of
fact, Apple products have never been about being "best" in any
technical way.

Depending on how old you are, you may remember Bang & Olufsen hi-fi
gear (they're still in business, sorta). Immaculately, elegantly
constructed, and sounded better than, oh, 80% of the rest of the
market. They weren't even slightly interested in the other 20%. You
pressed the button and quality music came out. Want to know the RMS
power output? Call the factory; otherwise it's "enough."

Steve Jobs famously used B&O; My setup from the late 70's is still
gracing my living room.

On 2017-04-30, Tomos Davies wrote:
In , Jolly Roger suggested:

Unlike you, the Apple-hating zealot troll,

What's funny is if they look up "troll & Jolly Roger" that has more hits
than *any* other keyword combination with troll in the iOS newsgroups!

Try it:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/troll$20jolly$20roger%7C

What's *really* funny is all of those threads you point to are threads
*you* created to troll the Apple news groups. Your many nyms are known
to the regulars in these news groups: Paul B. Andersen, Adair Bordon,
Liam O'Connor, Juan Camilo Blanco, Alphonse Arnaud, Danny D., Vinny
Perado, Whitney Ryan, Tony Cito, Adam H. Kerman, Werner Obermeier,
Steven Bornfeld, Winston_Smith, Mitch Kaufmann, Paul M. Cook, E.
Robinson, Alice J., P. Ng, Tam Nguyen, VPN user, Joe Clock, Marob Katon,
Chris Rangoon, AArdvarks, Conradt, Gustl Hoffmann, Henry Jones, Tatsuki
Takahashi, AL, Horace Algier, Karl Schultz, Arthur Conan Doyle, Algeria
Horan, Horace Algier, Raymond Spruance III, Martin Chuzzlewit II, John
Harmon, Yanis Bernard, Stijn De Jong, Abe Swanson, Misha Vasiliev, Tomos
Davies - all you, the same nym-switching Apple-hating Android zealot
dumb ass no-life troll.

I only speak verifiable facts.

You only lie and troll, because you have no life. You are a pathetic and
sad old man whose only joy is aggravating and disrupting Apple news
groups because you are filled with irrational hate. You can't die fast
enough for the rest of humanity. We will celebrate with a beer the day
you finally fall off a cliff and fade away. You will be quickly
forgotten by most people, and won't be missed. That will be your
self-created legacy to the world. Just pathetic.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

In , Lewis suggested:

Sooooo many thing:

Run viruses.
Install Rootkits to send all your data (ALL) to China.

Apple cripples what iOS can do just so that the user can *feel* safe.

The weakest link in any consumer mobile device is what makes the device
unsafe, not the operating system.

Yeah, Android CAN do so much more.

Lewis ... you are an enigma because you are on the a.u.e newsgroups, which
usually only intelligent people are on, but you have never once in your
life posted anything resembling technical acumen on the technical
newsgroups.

In news
BTW, you aren't stating facts. You were wrong about HD's trademark and
assuming all HD owners think alike. Don't confuse your opinion with
facts. Facts = truth. You stated nothing of the sort. I'm beginning to
see the problem with you.

You are correct that Harley failed to trademark their potato-potato-potato
sound, but only because it's really hard to tradmark a sound.

There's nothing in the Lanham Act that precludes trademarking a sound mind
you, and certainly MGM, THX, Nissan, NBC, T-Mobile, 20th Century Fox,
Duracell, Samsung, Harlem Globetrotters, McDonalds, Sony, Lucasfilms,
Intel, Nokia, and AAMCO have all successfully trademarked sounds.

But, I agree, Harley, as you noted, tried vehemently for six years
straight, and finally gave up, as their case was too weak from the start.

In , Scott Schuckert suggested:

The typical Apple user doesn't care about any of that stuff.

This is true that iOS as functional as Android is if all the user does is
web browse, listen to music, etc.; but the minute they try to do organize
their desktop, they find out that the operating system is crippled.

They can't change their launcher ... so ...
They can't put an icon where they want to put it.
They can't duplicate an icon to put it in multiple logical folders.
They can't create empty placeholder folders for future use (or which were
simply emptied but they still want for future use).
They can't rename an icon to make more sense.
They can't hide any icon they want or eliminate the dock if they want.
They can't even get rid of desktop screens which came in iOS 9 for heaven's
sake, so they *all* have multiple desktop screens even if they only want
one.
They can't change the grid where the icons go, or the size of the icons.
etc.

These are facts.

Basically, the primitive iOS user interface is completely crippled,
compared to what a modern interface, such as that on Android can do.

Bit Torrent? REALLY?

Yes. Really. Bit torrent is just one useful functionality that iOS lacks.

I think the perceived comparison exists only in your mind.

I stated a fact. Not a figment of imagination.
Bit torrent apps are not allowed by Apple.

Are you saying that's not a fact?
I only speak facts.

The entire Apple ecosystem is crippled in functionality not by the
hardware, but by the shackles put on what it allows the apps to do by
Apple.

Do you dispute this fact?

Trust me, I worked for Apple for many years - the Apple user
cares about getting high quality funtionality simply, easily, and
elegantly.

I can prove that instantly to be a fallacy.
What you're actually saying is what the Apple Marketing Machine told you to
say. They're one of the best Marketing Machine on the planet.

The typical Apple user *wants* his apps to be crippled, because it makes
him *feel* safe.

That is the *main* driver of the typical Apple user.
The feeling (not actual fact) of safety.

The second main driver is cachet.
For feeling safe (and for cachet), the user accepts a crippled user
interface.

The details of the specs really don't matter. Matter of
fact, Apple products have never been about being "best" in any
technical way.

At least you said one true fact.
Look at Apple Maps for example.

Depending on how old you are, you may remember Bang & Olufsen hi-fi
gear (they're still in business, sorta).

I'm pretty old, but never was an audiophile.

Think selenium rectifiers and at best, if super high tech, then think
gallium arsenide top hats insulated with transparent sheets of mylar
slathered with white titanium oxide paste when we had to replace them
ourselves.

Immaculately, elegantly
constructed, and sounded better than, oh, 80% of the rest of the
market. They weren't even slightly interested in the other 20%. You
pressed the button and quality music came out. Want to know the RMS
power output? Call the factory; otherwise it's "enough."

While I wasn't an audiophile, we knew, even then, that the 3db point on
most speakers were outlandishly optimistic.

Steve Jobs famously used B&O; My setup from the late 70's is still
gracing my living room.

Wow. Mine was so big, as I recall, it could be used as a boat anchor. It's
somewhere in the attic all boxed up. Good for you that it still works as
finding replacement tubes started getting difficult just as mine died.

In article , Tomos Davies
wrote:

Bit Torrent? REALLY?

Yes. Really. Bit torrent is just one useful functionality that iOS lacks.

nothing about ios prevents bittorrent.

On 4/30/2017 1:46 AM, Tomos Davies wrote:
In , Bill W suggested:

I don't think functions are the claimed difference. I've always heard
claims of superior image quality. I have no knowledge of that either
way.
To that end, here is a scientific assessment of the "image & video quality"
pf Apple iOS and Android devices based on a reference kindly supplied today
by user "android" in this thread:

https://www.dxomark.com
"DxO has extensively analyzed the image and video quality of
over 9,000 cameras, lenses and mobile phones. These analyses
are used by top camera manufacturers, media and help power
DxO software. DxOMark provides free public access to these
results to help guide your camera and lens decisions."

89
- Google Pixel
88
- HTC 10
- Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge
- Sony Xperia X Performance
87
- Huawei P10
- Moto Z Force Droid
- Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge Plus
- Sony Xperia XZ
- Sony Xperia Z5
86
- Apple iPhone 7
- LG G5
- Samsung Galaxy Note V
- Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge
85
- Huawei Mate 9
- LG V20
84
- Apple iPhone 6s Plus
- Apple iPhone 6s
- Google Nexus 6P
- Moto Z Droid
- Moto G Plus
- Moto Droid Turbo 2
83
- LG G4
- Moto X Style
- Samsung Galaxy Note 4
82
- Apple iPhone 6s
- Apple iPhone 6 Plus
- Apple iPhone 6
- BlackBerry Priv
- Sony Xperia Z3+
- TCL 950
81
- Nextbit Robin
80
- Huawei P9
79
- Samsung Galaxy S5
- Sony Xperia M5
- Sony Xperia Z3
- Sony Xperia Z2
- Xiaomi Mi 5
78
- Google Nexus 6
- HTC One A9
- Xiaomi Mi 5SPlus
77
- Nokia 808 Pureview
- Nubia Z11
76
- Apple iPhone 5S
- OnePlus 2
- Sony Xperia Z1
75
- Samsung Galaxy S4
74
- Huawei P8
- Meizu Pro 6
- Nokia Lumia 1020
73
- LG G2
- Nokia Lumia 925
- Qiku Q Terra
72
- Apple iPhone 5
- Apple iPhone 4S
- Samsung Note II
- Samsung Galaxy S3
70
- GoPro HERO3
69
- Amazon Firephone
- HTC ONE M9
68
- HTC ONE M8
67
- BlackBerry Z10
66
- HTC 8X
- Nokia Lumia 920
61
- Sony Xperia Z
59
- Apple New iPad
57
- Samsung Galaxy S2
50
- Apple iPhone 4

REFERENCE: https://www.dxomark.com/Mobiles

Highest Android sco 89. Highest iPhone sco 86. A virtual tie.
Do you honestly think you could see any real difference in an actual
photo using the two phones?

PAS wrote:


Highest Android sco 89. Highest iPhone sco 86. A virtual tie.
Do you honestly think you could see any real difference in an actual
photo using the two phones?


You can easily see a difference between the result of a phone and a good
camera used by someone who knows how to use the latter, however!



--
biblioholic medievalist via iPad

On 5/1/2017 2:13 PM, Erilar wrote:
PAS wrote:

Highest Android sco 89. Highest iPhone sco 86. A virtual tie.
Do you honestly think you could see any real difference in an actual
photo using the two phones?

You can easily see a difference between the result of a phone and a good
camera used by someone who knows how to use the latter, however!



Yes, but I'm addressing the differences between the highest scoring
Android phone and the highest scoring iPhone.

In , nospam suggested:

Yes. Really. Bit torrent is just one useful functionality that iOS lacks.

nothing about ios prevents bittorrent.

Apple is the part about iOS that prevents bit torrent apps.
Plus the fact you can't use a secondary app store unless you jailbreak.

Once you jailbreak, then no longer is iOS a crippled operating system.
I've never said otherwise.

It's not the hardware that makes iOS so primitive in functionality compared
to a modern and more open model such as Android is.

It's Apple.

In , Jolly Roger suggested:

You are a pathetic and
sad old man whose only joy is aggravating and disrupting Apple news
groups because you are filled with irrational hate.

And yet, all that vitriol comes from the likes of you.

In news
Highest Android sco 89. Highest iPhone sco 86. A virtual tie.
Do you honestly think you could see any real difference in an actual
photo using the two phones?


You can easily see a difference between the result of a phone and a good
camera used by someone who knows how to use the latter, however!

You can find SLR camera scores in plenty of camera aficionado web sites,
where the lens is a key factor that mobile devices just can't compete with.

So, while Android barely edges out iOS (in general) in all the tests that
matter, the hardware between decent Android phones and most iOS phones (all
of which are decent hardware for their day) is about the same.

It's not the hardware that makes iOS so functionally primitive.
It's Apple.

In news
Highest Android sco 89. Highest iPhone sco 86. A virtual tie.
Do you honestly think you could see any real difference in an actual
photo using the two phones?

I have always said that the Apple and high end Android hardware is about
the same, so, it's not me who is ever going to say that the end result of
Android is better than iOS.

Apple iOS may be a primitive operating system, but the camera hardware is
modern.

That Android beats out iOS camera results by only a little bit isn't
shocking since the high end hardware overall on both platforms is about the
same.

In article , Tomos Davies
wrote:


Yes. Really. Bit torrent is just one useful functionality that iOS lacks.

nothing about ios prevents bittorrent.

Apple is the part about iOS that prevents bit torrent apps.

no they don't

In , nospam suggested:

Apple is the part about iOS that prevents bit torrent apps.

no they don't

As they told you when they handed you your head on the Linux newsgroups,
your contrarian opinion is duly noted.