Is the account number of a charge account sometimes, or often, or
always, the number that appears on the card?

I have a checking account and the account number is entirely different
from the number on the card.

I just got a new credit card on a different bank and I have to file the
rejection of arbitration notice within 30 days and, reasonably, it wants
the account number on the paper.. But it's gotten to the point where I
can't find out my own account number. It's not in the mail they send me
or on the webpage for my account.

There must be a fourth place to look but right now I can only think of
the card itself.

On Sunday, February 19, 2017 at 10:48:22 PM UTC-6, micky wrote:

Is the account number of a charge account sometimes, or often, or
always, the number that appears on the card?

For me, the number that appears on the card is the number associated
with the card and in no way reflects the account number that
appears on your checks.

I have a checking account and the account number is entirely different
from the number on the card.

That's in case it's lost or stolen no one can access your bank
account.

I just got a new credit card on a different bank and I have to file the
rejection of arbitration notice within 30 days and, reasonably, it wants
the account number on the paper.. But it's gotten to the point where I
can't find out my own account number. It's not in the mail they send me
or on the webpage for my account.

You lost me with "I have to file the rejection of arbitration
notice within 30 days."

There must be a fourth place to look but right now I can only think of
the card itself.

You lost me again.

On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 23:48:09 -0500, micky
wrote:

Is the account number of a charge account sometimes, or often, or
always, the number that appears on the card?

I have a checking account and the account number is entirely different
from the number on the card.

I just got a new credit card on a different bank and I have to file the
rejection of arbitration notice within 30 days and, reasonably, it wants
the account number on the paper.. But it's gotten to the point where I
can't find out my own account number. It's not in the mail they send me
or on the webpage for my account.

There must be a fourth place to look but right now I can only think of
the card itself.

The account number pretty much will never be the card number. Credit
card numbers are a self check code that indicates the carrier (Visa/MC
etc) and the bank along with a serial number and the self check digit.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 19 Feb 2017 22:06:56 -0800 (PST),
ItsJoanNotJoann wrote:

On Sunday, February 19, 2017 at 10:48:22 PM UTC-6, micky wrote:

Is the account number of a charge account sometimes, or often, or
always, the number that appears on the card?

For me, the number that appears on the card is the number associated
with the card and in no way reflects the account number that
appears on your checks.

Right. It's that way with my checking account and the debit card that
goes with it.

And this new account came with a "deposit" account and a debit card**
and their numbers are totally different too. **and a credit card and

When I go online, I can see the full number of my deposit account but
only the last 4 digits of my credit account.

I have a checking account and the account number is entirely different
from the number on the card.

That's in case it's lost or stolen no one can access your bank
account.

Right.

I just got a new credit card on a different bank and I have to file the
rejection of arbitration notice within 30 days and, reasonably, it wants
the account number on the paper.. But it's gotten to the point where I
can't find out my own account number. It's not in the mail they send me
or on the webpage for my account.

You lost me with "I have to file the rejection of arbitration
notice within 30 days."

Probably all credit card contracts these days, and a lot of other
contracts, come with compulsory arbitration clauses, in place of the
right to sue and the right to be part of a class action. I think it's
federal law that requires all such contracts to give the party the right
to reject the arbitration clause but only if he does so in writing
within the first 30 days after the account is established, or probably
after the papers are mailed to him, or maybe after he receives them.

And this bank requires a certified letter.

Once the 30 days are up, the only way to get rid of the clause is to
close the account and open a new one. When it was a debit card and a
checking account with not too much money, since I didn't know about this
and I lost my right, it wasnt' that important.

But banks have made it much more apparent how sleazy they are. A banker
used to be one of the most respected people in town, but I dont' know if
anyone feels that way anymore. First Bank of America, when more checks
were presented that the account holder had money, would reorder the
checks, regardless of which order they came in, so that they paid the
biggest ones first, causing the person to be overdrawn with a lot of
small checks that would bounce, on which they could collect their 35
dollar fee. (even though with computers, the actual cost of an overdrawn
check is probably under a quarter. ) They did this on purpose. I
consider it outright stealing. They lost on a class action, but only
those eligible to be members of the class can collect, and more
importantly I'll bet is that if everyone had signed the arbitration
agreement, there wouldnt' be enough possible complainants to create a
class, or maybe it's that the possible recovery woudlnt' be enough to
attract a plaintiff's lawyer.

So I opened an account at Wells Fargo, and I told the guy who did it
about Bank of America. Then a year later, I see in the paper that Wells
Fargo was doing the same thing, after BOA was caught and made to stop.
Wells Fargo lost this too, a class action.

Then recently you may have heard about Wells Fargo opening accounts for
people who didn't ask for them, and then charging them monthly fees or
something. WF lost this too, another class action.

And a couple months ago a regional bank in Minnesota had another scheme
for cheating their customers. I forget what it was. They too lost a
class action.

There must be a fourth place to look but right now I can only think of
the card itself.

You lost me again.

I looked on the card, on the statement, and in the computer, but there
must be a 4th place.

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 20 Feb 2017 01:53:28 -0500,
wrote:

On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 23:48:09 -0500, micky
wrote:

Is the account number of a charge account sometimes, or often, or
always, the number that appears on the card?

I have a checking account and the account number is entirely different
from the number on the card.

I just got a new credit card on a different bank and I have to file the
rejection of arbitration notice within 30 days and, reasonably, it wants
the account number on the paper.. But it's gotten to the point where I
can't find out my own account number. It's not in the mail they send me
or on the webpage for my account.

There must be a fourth place to look but right now I can only think of
the card itself.

The account number pretty much will never be the card number. Credit
card numbers are a self check code that indicates the carrier (Visa/MC
etc) and the bank along with a serial number and the self check digit.

That makes sense, and that's what I thought, but I was running out of
numbers. After I posted I called them and sat on hold for 45 minutes
(one reason I didn't want to call) and the person wouldn't tell me my
number of course, but I asked her the question above, and she said Yes,
they're the same number. Still hard to believe, so today's so-called
President's Day but I'll call tomorrow

Buttttt, I also noticed that even though I only had the last 4 digits
of the credit account, they are the same last 4 digits on the credit
card. That seems to support what she told me.

Surely I can find a piece of paper that has my account number on it.
It's absurd.

I

On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 23:48:09 -0500, micky
wrote:

Is the account number of a charge account sometimes, or often, or
always, the number that appears on the card?

I have a checking account and the account number is entirely different
from the number on the card.

I just got a new credit card on a different bank and I have to file the
rejection of arbitration notice within 30 days and, reasonably, it wants
the account number on the paper.. But it's gotten to the point where I
can't find out my own account number. It's not in the mail they send me
or on the webpage for my account.

There must be a fourth place to look but right now I can only think of
the card itself.
Your credit card and your bank account should NEVER have the same
number. I even prefer that the credit card be with a different bank
than my bank account(s). Even my personal and business accounts are
with different banks.

To find your bank account number look on the bottom of your cheques,
or on your passbook, or your bank statement. It will also show up when
you log into your bank electronically (you do not log in with the
account - you log in with your access number which MAY be a credit
card number. - here in Canada the access card is also (usually) usable
as a debit card. The account number will have a 3 digit bank
identifier or branch code, followed by, usually, an 8 digit account
number. Both the branch id and account number are required to identify
an account. I suspect things are very similar in the USA

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 06:17:55 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 19 Feb 2017 22:06:56 -0800 (PST),
ItsJoanNotJoann wrote:

On Sunday, February 19, 2017 at 10:48:22 PM UTC-6, micky wrote:

Is the account number of a charge account sometimes, or often, or
always, the number that appears on the card?

For me, the number that appears on the card is the number associated
with the card and in no way reflects the account number that
appears on your checks.

Right. It's that way with my checking account and the debit card that
goes with it.

And this new account came with a "deposit" account and a debit card**
and their numbers are totally different too. **and a credit card and

When I go online, I can see the full number of my deposit account but
only the last 4 digits of my credit account.

I have a checking account and the account number is entirely different
from the number on the card.

That's in case it's lost or stolen no one can access your bank
account.

Right.

I just got a new credit card on a different bank and I have to file the
rejection of arbitration notice within 30 days and, reasonably, it wants
the account number on the paper.. But it's gotten to the point where I
can't find out my own account number. It's not in the mail they send me
or on the webpage for my account.

You lost me with "I have to file the rejection of arbitration
notice within 30 days."

Probably all credit card contracts these days, and a lot of other
contracts, come with compulsory arbitration clauses, in place of the
right to sue and the right to be part of a class action. I think it's
federal law that requires all such contracts to give the party the right
to reject the arbitration clause but only if he does so in writing
within the first 30 days after the account is established, or probably
after the papers are mailed to him, or maybe after he receives them.

And this bank requires a certified letter.

Once the 30 days are up, the only way to get rid of the clause is to
close the account and open a new one. When it was a debit card and a
checking account with not too much money, since I didn't know about this
and I lost my right, it wasnt' that important.

But banks have made it much more apparent how sleazy they are. A banker
used to be one of the most respected people in town, but I dont' know if
anyone feels that way anymore. First Bank of America, when more checks
were presented that the account holder had money, would reorder the
checks, regardless of which order they came in, so that they paid the
biggest ones first, causing the person to be overdrawn with a lot of
small checks that would bounce, on which they could collect their 35
dollar fee. (even though with computers, the actual cost of an overdrawn
check is probably under a quarter. ) They did this on purpose. I
consider it outright stealing. They lost on a class action, but only
those eligible to be members of the class can collect, and more
importantly I'll bet is that if everyone had signed the arbitration
agreement, there wouldnt' be enough possible complainants to create a
class, or maybe it's that the possible recovery woudlnt' be enough to
attract a plaintiff's lawyer.

So I opened an account at Wells Fargo, and I told the guy who did it
about Bank of America. Then a year later, I see in the paper that Wells
Fargo was doing the same thing, after BOA was caught and made to stop.
Wells Fargo lost this too, a class action.

Then recently you may have heard about Wells Fargo opening accounts for
people who didn't ask for them, and then charging them monthly fees or
something. WF lost this too, another class action.

And a couple months ago a regional bank in Minnesota had another scheme
for cheating their customers. I forget what it was. They too lost a
class action.

There must be a fourth place to look but right now I can only think of
the card itself.

You lost me again.

I looked on the card, on the statement, and in the computer, but there
must be a 4th place.



I'm sure glad I don't have to bank in America - where one of the
formerly best known banks in history (Wells Fargo) has been criminally
indicted for fraud, and half the rest are no better.A "well regulated
banking system" is one of the MANY advantages of living in Canada.

As for the overdraft charges, only an IDIOT keeps signing cheques to
an account that doesn't have adequate funds to cover them.

Up here that is FRAUD - doesn't matter how the bank chooses to handle
them.

Not being nasty here, Micky, but wake up and smell the bloody roses.
It's not the bank that is your enemy - it appears you are your own
worst enemy.

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 06:22:20 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 20 Feb 2017 01:53:28 -0500,
wrote:

On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 23:48:09 -0500, micky
wrote:

Is the account number of a charge account sometimes, or often, or
always, the number that appears on the card?

I have a checking account and the account number is entirely different
from the number on the card.

I just got a new credit card on a different bank and I have to file the
rejection of arbitration notice within 30 days and, reasonably, it wants
the account number on the paper.. But it's gotten to the point where I
can't find out my own account number. It's not in the mail they send me
or on the webpage for my account.

There must be a fourth place to look but right now I can only think of
the card itself.

The account number pretty much will never be the card number. Credit
card numbers are a self check code that indicates the carrier (Visa/MC
etc) and the bank along with a serial number and the self check digit.

That makes sense, and that's what I thought, but I was running out of
numbers. After I posted I called them and sat on hold for 45 minutes
(one reason I didn't want to call) and the person wouldn't tell me my
number of course, but I asked her the question above, and she said Yes,
they're the same number. Still hard to believe, so today's so-called
President's Day but I'll call tomorrow

Buttttt, I also noticed that even though I only had the last 4 digits
of the credit account, they are the same last 4 digits on the credit
card. That seems to support what she told me.

Surely I can find a piece of paper that has my account number on it.
It's absurd.

I
Your CREDIT CARD account and the card number CAN be the same number.
Up here it IS if there is only one card issued on the account - but we
have 2 cards on each credit card account - one for me and one for my
wife. Different numbers. Same account.
Makes it easy to see who charged what.

On Sunday, February 19, 2017 at 11:48:22 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
Is the account number of a charge account sometimes, or often, or
always, the number that appears on the card?

I have a checking account and the account number is entirely different
from the number on the card.

First you said charge account, then you switched to checking
account. In my experience, credit cards the account number
and the number on the card are the same. With a debit card
connected to a checking account, the numbers are different.
Which makes sense, because anyone who has you bank account
number could use it to make an electronic payment, or put it
on a fake check, etc.



I just got a new credit card on a different bank and I have to file the
rejection of arbitration notice within 30 days and, reasonably, it wants
the account number on the paper..

If this is some routine thing that you need to sign and mail
back, I'm surprised the number isn't already on the form you
have to return.



But it's gotten to the point where I
can't find out my own account number. It's not in the mail they send me
or on the webpage for my account.

There must be a fourth place to look but right now I can only think of
the card itself.

On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 23:48:09 -0500, micky wrote:

Is the account number of a charge account sometimes, or often, or
always, the number that appears on the card?

I have a checking account and the account number is entirely different
from the number on the card.

I just got a new credit card on a different bank and I have to file the
rejection of arbitration notice within 30 days and, reasonably, it wants
the account number on the paper.. But it's gotten to the point where I
can't find out my own account number. It's not in the mail they send me
or on the webpage for my account.

I can't believe you're not blaming Trump for your ignorance.

There must be a fourth place to look but right now I can only think of
the card itself.

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 20 Feb 2017 13:00:38 -0500,
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 06:17:55 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 19 Feb 2017 22:06:56 -0800 (PST),
ItsJoanNotJoann wrote:

On Sunday, February 19, 2017 at 10:48:22 PM UTC-6, micky wrote:

Is the account number of a charge account sometimes, or often, or
always, the number that appears on the card?

For me, the number that appears on the card is the number associated
with the card and in no way reflects the account number that
appears on your checks.

Right. It's that way with my checking account and the debit card that
goes with it.

And this new account came with a "deposit" account and a debit card**
and their numbers are totally different too. **and a credit card and

When I go online, I can see the full number of my deposit account but
only the last 4 digits of my credit account.

I have a checking account and the account number is entirely different
from the number on the card.

That's in case it's lost or stolen no one can access your bank
account.

Right.

I just got a new credit card on a different bank and I have to file the
rejection of arbitration notice within 30 days and, reasonably, it wants
the account number on the paper.. But it's gotten to the point where I
can't find out my own account number. It's not in the mail they send me
or on the webpage for my account.

You lost me with "I have to file the rejection of arbitration
notice within 30 days."

Probably all credit card contracts these days, and a lot of other
contracts, come with compulsory arbitration clauses, in place of the
right to sue and the right to be part of a class action. I think it's
federal law that requires all such contracts to give the party the right
to reject the arbitration clause but only if he does so in writing
within the first 30 days after the account is established, or probably
after the papers are mailed to him, or maybe after he receives them.

And this bank requires a certified letter.

Once the 30 days are up, the only way to get rid of the clause is to
close the account and open a new one. When it was a debit card and a
checking account with not too much money, since I didn't know about this
and I lost my right, it wasnt' that important.

But banks have made it much more apparent how sleazy they are. A banker
used to be one of the most respected people in town, but I dont' know if
anyone feels that way anymore. First Bank of America, when more checks
were presented that the account holder had money, would reorder the
checks, regardless of which order they came in, so that they paid the
biggest ones first, causing the person to be overdrawn with a lot of
small checks that would bounce, on which they could collect their 35
dollar fee. (even though with computers, the actual cost of an overdrawn
check is probably under a quarter. ) They did this on purpose. I
consider it outright stealing. They lost on a class action, but only
those eligible to be members of the class can collect, and more
importantly I'll bet is that if everyone had signed the arbitration
agreement, there wouldnt' be enough possible complainants to create a
class, or maybe it's that the possible recovery woudlnt' be enough to
attract a plaintiff's lawyer.

So I opened an account at Wells Fargo, and I told the guy who did it
about Bank of America. Then a year later, I see in the paper that Wells
Fargo was doing the same thing, after BOA was caught and made to stop.
Wells Fargo lost this too, a class action.

Then recently you may have heard about Wells Fargo opening accounts for
people who didn't ask for them, and then charging them monthly fees or
something. WF lost this too, another class action.

And a couple months ago a regional bank in Minnesota had another scheme
for cheating their customers. I forget what it was. They too lost a
class action.

There must be a fourth place to look but right now I can only think of
the card itself.

You lost me again.

I looked on the card, on the statement, and in the computer, but there
must be a 4th place.



I'm sure glad I don't have to bank in America -

We already know that, about banking and probably everything else.

where one of the
formerly best known banks in history (Wells Fargo) has been criminally
indicted for fraud, and half the rest are no better.A "well regulated
banking system" is one of the MANY advantages of living in Canada.

As for the overdraft charges, only an IDIOT keeps signing cheques to
an account that doesn't have adequate funds to cover them.

Or someone with not much money who expected a check to clear but it
didnt'. Direct deposit, his own deposit, they can all get delayed.
For all I know, they held up deposits so that checks would bounce.

Up here that is FRAUD - doesn't matter how the bank chooses to handle
them.

Intentionally writing a bad check is a crime, but the vast, vast
majority of NSFs, not sufficient funds, are not intentional.

Not being nasty here,

Do you think saying "not being nasty" makes you not nasty? It doesn't.

Micky, but wake up and smell the bloody roses.
It's not the bank that is your enemy - it appears you are your own
worst enemy.

First, I'm tired of your stupid insults. Stop it.

Second, you just got through saying that all the banks in the US are no
good and now you blame me and not them. If that's not malicious, I'd be
surprised.

Third, there is nothing to blame anyone for. They hide the account
number for security reasons. If they overdo it, I'm sure it's not
because they're sadists. Usually I only have to know the card number
anyhow, and not the account number. but this is an unusual circumstance.
Still, I only have to get this all straight once and I'm done. So why
are you blaming someone?

I have admired your knowledge of cars and other things, but you're
diligently working at erasing that. If you're in physical pain, get a
doctor to fix it or let me know and I'll let you insult me somewhat
more.

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 20 Feb 2017 10:07:06 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, February 19, 2017 at 11:48:22 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
Is the account number of a charge account sometimes, or often, or
always, the number that appears on the card?

I have a checking account and the account number is entirely different
from the number on the card.

First you said charge account, then you switched to checking
account.

That's because the question was about charge accounts, credit cards, but
the next paragraph was about a different card and a debit card, where
the numbers.

In my experience, credit cards the account number
and the number on the card are the same. With a debit card
connected to a checking account, the numbers are different.
Which makes sense, because anyone who has you bank account
number could use it to make an electronic payment, or put it
on a fake check, etc.

That all makes sense.



I just got a new credit card on a different bank and I have to file the
rejection of arbitration notice within 30 days and, reasonably, it wants
the account number on the paper..

If this is some routine thing that you need to sign and mail
back, I'm surprised the number isn't already on the form you
have to return.

There's not even a form. They expect you to compose your own notice,
and I'll bet if you make a tiny error**, they won't honor it when the
time comes. They don't want people to reject it and that's why there
is a law that allows rejecting it.

**A possible pitfall: they refer to the Credit Card Terms and
Conditions, but the pages of that are number 1 and 2, and after that is
another heading which reads Credit Card Cardholder Agreement, and that
page is numbered at the bottom "1 out of 13:". It's 10 pages down after
that where the clause appears. I wouldn't be surprised that if I
referred only to the first one, they'd say I should have referred to the
second one, because it's not in the first one. Then I'd have to find
a printed record of their pointing me to the first one. This is pretty
far-fetched, but banks haven't been very honest lately.

I know that most courts and even more appeals courts will ignore a
discrepancy like this, and go by intent, or say that no citation is
needed in the form at all, but it's still a way to slow a plaintiff
down, and in preparing for trial, just in case. he'll have to write a
detailed brief with citations to precedent, and this takes hours and
costs money.

And the Cardholder Agreement includes 3 clauses one might want to
reject, and it seems to clearly imply that if he allows the arbitration
clause, he loses his right to a jury trial, which might make one think
that if he rejects the clause he has that right. But later it says that
if the dispute is not arbitrated, the jury trial waiver "eliminates your
right to a jury". And of couse if it is arbitrated, you can't have a
jury trial either. So why is it phrased in such a convoluted manner?
Maybe there's a good reason, one not meant to confuse customers, but I
don't know.



But it's gotten to the point where I
can't find out my own account number. It's not in the mail they send me
or on the webpage for my account.

There must be a fourth place to look but right now I can only think of
the card itself.

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 20 Feb 2017 13:43:50 -0600, Gordon Shumway
wrote:

On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 23:48:09 -0500, micky wrote:

Is the account number of a charge account sometimes, or often, or
always, the number that appears on the card?

I have a checking account and the account number is entirely different
from the number on the card.

I just got a new credit card on a different bank and I have to file the
rejection of arbitration notice within 30 days and, reasonably, it wants
the account number on the paper.. But it's gotten to the point where I
can't find out my own account number. It's not in the mail they send me
or on the webpage for my account.

I can't believe you're not blaming Trump for your ignorance.

I blame him for yours.

There must be a fourth place to look but right now I can only think of
the card itself.

On Monday, February 20, 2017 at 3:38:24 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:


As for the overdraft charges, only an IDIOT keeps signing cheques to
an account that doesn't have adequate funds to cover them.

Or someone with not much money who expected a check to clear but it
didnt'. Direct deposit, his own deposit, they can all get delayed.
For all I know, they held up deposits so that checks would bounce.

Up here that is FRAUD - doesn't matter how the bank chooses to handle
them.

Intentionally writing a bad check is a crime, but the vast, vast
majority of NSFs, not sufficient funds, are not intentional.


+1

It's fraud and a crime if you do it intentionally, but like you say,
most times it's not intentional and not a crime. Plus, the banks
love it, because they can collect $30 minimum and ofter much more.
I think it was Bank of America that was found to be deliberately
putting checks cleared into the sequence that would give them the
most charges when the account was overdrawn. For example, if there
was $100 in the account and there were 4 checks presented, three
for $25 and one for $90, they would clear the $90 first, then
hit the account with 3 overdraft charges for the other three.
If they had processed the three $25 ones first, then it would
have been just one over draft.



I have admired your knowledge of cars and other things, but you're
diligently working at erasing that. If you're in physical pain, get a
doctor to fix it or let me know and I'll let you insult me somewhat
more.

Maybe he should stick to cars. Keep it up Micky and you'll be on
his banned list because you've told him he's wrong.

On 02/20/2017 12:03 PM, wrote:

[snip]

Your CREDIT CARD account and the card number CAN be the same number.
Up here it IS if there is only one card issued on the account - but we
have 2 cards on each credit card account - one for me and one for my
wife. Different numbers. Same account.
Makes it easy to see who charged what.

Does one of the cards have the same number as the account?

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

Ad for candy bars: "Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't."

On Tue, 21 Feb 2017 15:00:21 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 02/20/2017 12:03 PM, wrote:

[snip]

Your CREDIT CARD account and the card number CAN be the same number.
Up here it IS if there is only one card issued on the account - but we
have 2 cards on each credit card account - one for me and one for my
wife. Different numbers. Same account.
Makes it easy to see who charged what.

Does one of the cards have the same number as the account?
The credit card account number is the same as the primary card number
.. On one of the credit card accounts that is my card - on the other it
is my wife's..