On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 00:24:26 -0000, wrote:

On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 23:15:15 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:



30A @ 240V? That's a BIG dryer! Ours are 13A @ 240V. Handy, as you can just plug them into a standard outlet.

That is the standard size. They generally have a 22-23a heating coil
and a 1/4-1/6 hp motor plus an insignificant controller load..

We tend to wash 5kg of washing, then dry it for about an hour and a bit. I guess your dryers are faster. Why the hurry?

--
Did you know that dolphins are so intelligent that within only a few weeks of captivity, they can train humans to stand at the edge of the pool and throw them fish?

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 00:28:20 -0000, wrote:

On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 23:17:38 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 18:50:59 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:

[snip]

My double electric oven is 40A, IDK what the electric cooktop
is, but probably 30A? AC breaker is 50A, probably only pulls
half that when it up and running. Hot tub is on a 40A.
Electric dryer is 30A.

My cooktop is on a 30A breaker. I have measured the current (clamp meter
at the panel), and it is a little over 30A with all elements on high,
although that it unlikely to happen in normal use.

Same here, but with the oven and grill and 4 hobs.

He is just talking about a unit with the "hobs". The oven would be
separate.

Must be bigger hobs than me, or more than 4 then.

--
Why is Michael Jackson's album entitled "Bad?"
Because he couldn't spell "Pathetic."

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 00:26:46 -0000, wrote:

On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 23:16:44 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

Cooktop is usually 20a but may spec a 30a circuit. A new 3 ton AC

Why is it measured in tins? They can't weigh that much.

"Ton" is just A/C speak for 12000 BTU.

Seems an odd figure. Is it 100 or 1000 of something else?

--
Watching your daughter being collected by her date feels like handing over a million dollar Stradivarius to a gorilla.

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 00:52:39 -0000, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/31/2017 7:26 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 23:16:44 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

Cooktop is usually 20a but may spec a 30a circuit. A new 3 ton AC

Why is it measured in tins? They can't weigh that much.

"Ton" is just A/C speak for 12000 BTU.


A ton is the amount of heat removed by an air conditioning system that
would melt 1 ton (2000 lbs.) of ice in 24 hours.````

A ton is the cooling capacity of an air conditioning system. One ton is
equal to the amount of heat required (288,000 Btu) to melt one ton of
ice in a 24-hour period. A one-ton air conditioner is rated at 12,000
Btu per hour (288,000/24). A two-ton unit would be rated at 24,000 Btu
per hour.

I see.

--
Why are hemorrhoids called "hemorrhoids" instead of "asteroids"?

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 00:52:39 -0000, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/31/2017 7:26 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 23:16:44 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

Cooktop is usually 20a but may spec a 30a circuit. A new 3 ton AC

Why is it measured in tins? They can't weigh that much.

"Ton" is just A/C speak for 12000 BTU.


A ton is the amount of heat removed by an air conditioning system that
would melt 1 ton (2000 lbs.) of ice in 24 hours.````

A ton is the cooling capacity of an air conditioning system. One ton is
equal to the amount of heat required (288,000 Btu) to melt one ton of
ice in a 24-hour period. A one-ton air conditioner is rated at 12,000
Btu per hour (288,000/24). A two-ton unit would be rated at 24,000 Btu
per hour.

So completely nonsensical when trying to work out how much it'll cool air in a house.

--
Why are hemorrhoids called "hemorrhoids" instead of "asteroids"?

On 01/31/2017 06:26 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 23:16:44 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

Cooktop is usually 20a but may spec a 30a circuit. A new 3 ton AC

Why is it measured in tins? They can't weigh that much.

"Ton" is just A/C speak for 12000 BTU.

IIRC it has something to do with a ton of ice.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Atheism is not a belief in the same sense that astigmatism, rheumatism,
and botulism are not beliefs."

On 01/31/2017 07:10 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

[snip]

Sure? The way it's done here, I'm on phase one, my neighbour is on
phase 2, and the other neighbour is phase 3. They alternate to spread
the load of the transformer. Your nearest transformer must have three
phases, where do they go?


The electrical supply to my house is in the middle of the block, and is
only 1 phase. I can see where it's connected at the end of the block.
The cross street has all 3 phases.

BTW, Sometimes I wish I had bought a house on the other side of the
street. Their power failures are usually fixed first.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Atheism is not a belief in the same sense that astigmatism, rheumatism,
and botulism are not beliefs."

On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 3:09:36 PM UTC-6, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 03:24:00 -0000, Uncle Monster wrote:

On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 7:35:29 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:51:09 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:19:50 -0000, wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:04:52 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 20:43:06 -0000, Charles Bishop wrote:

Howdy,

Sis had me look at an electrical problem she had - it turned out to be a
loose wire. However, when I was poking around, I discovered a couple of
odd things and need to know what to tell her what to do.

There are two circuits I discovered that appear to have 120V outlets and
switches on a 30A breaker. I didn't know enough to tell her whether this
was allowed or not - I really suspect not but wanted to ask here first.
My first thought was if there was a problem with, say a drill motor on
this circuit, any problem with it wouldn't be enough to trip the breaker.

This most likely resulted from the previous owner hiring incompetent
workers and they did poor work, just to get electrical power to the
shed. I found a power cord used as electrical cable so they didn't have
to break into the wall - it ran from an (E) outlet (connected by
stripping the wires and connected to the screws on the outlet) along the
wall to a multiplug on its end so that power could be had at the other
side of the shed. I removed this of course. So, poor work in other
places wouldn't surprise me.

Then, what should she do? I thought getting the circuits tracked down
and then replacing the 30A breaker with two 15's or 20s, depending on
the wiring and what's on them. I'd like her to have some idea before she
has an electrician come out.

Also, for me - I used a voltage tester when looking around - it was the
kind that chirps and lights up when it's near wiring that has power. It
also chirps and lights up if you stick one end into an outlet.

However I found that there could also be transient chirps if I moved it
quickly past a piece of metal and when I was close to wiring rather than
very close to it. In one case, this made it difficult to tell which
outlet or switch had the power. Was I using it correctly?

Americans make things so complicated. In the UK, we have all our outlets (or half of them, on two circuits) on a 30A breaker. Each appliance has a fuse in the plug, dependant on what that appliance is.

I bet you don't have 4.8 KVA homes as the defacto standard with some
double that. We also have more required circuits. (2 in the kitchen,
one in the laundry and one in the bathroom as a minimum plus the
general lighting and appliance circuits.

No need for so many circuits. We typically have one (or two in larger homes) 30A 240V circuit(s) for outlets, one 30A 240V circuit for the cooker, one 15A 240V circuit for the water heater, and two 5A 240V circuits for lighting.

You folks just do not have as many electrical appliances I guess. To
start with I doubt air conditioning is that prevalent. In most of the
US it is standard equipment. Our "cookers" (ranges) are typically 40a
or maybe 50a. If you can't get natural gas, you will have electric
water heaters and maybe even electric heat. Add a swimming pool,
electric dryer, spa and perhaps a shop, then the loads add up fast.



What is your typical main breaker?

100A = 24KVA. You really run your whole home on just 4.8KVA?! I can exceed that by a factor of 2.5 with my cooker alone. The shower another factor of 2 over that.

Sorry I dropped a decimal place 48KVA.
24KVA is the minimum service you can have for anything, most are 48KVA
(200a) and a large home will have 400a (96KVA)

In US terms we would call your ring circuit a feeder and the branch
circuit is the cord beyond the plug. (last overcurrent device in the
circuit)

Would you guess it's less expensive to wire a home in the UK since they're using smaller wire(less copper) to get the same wattage at twice the voltage. I find it interesting that their transformers must be heavier because of the lower frequency of their power systems. Which make me wonder why Europe settled on a 50hz standard? Off I go to do some research. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Shocked Monster

Not much difference in size between 50 and 60Hz actually. They get a lot smaller with much higher frequencies though - look inside a computer power supply.
--


Have you ever seen 400hz ac powered gear out of an aircraft? The transformers are very small. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

Uncle Hertzian Monster

On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 6:21:29 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 21:09:15 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 01:34:57 -0000, wrote:

You folks just do not have as many electrical appliances I guess. To
start with I doubt air conditioning is that prevalent. In most of the
US it is standard equipment.

That only uses about a kW?

More like 6kw


Our "cookers" (ranges) are typically 40a
or maybe 50a.

At 240V presumably. Not much higher than our 30A. And there are a fair number with double width cookers (two ovens, six hobs).

You are going to be looking at 50 or even 60a then

If you can't get natural gas, you will have electric
water heaters

We do too. Gas isn't everywhere.

and maybe even electric heat.

Same here.

My electric heat strips are 10kva.

Add a swimming pool,
electric dryer, spa and perhaps a shop, then the loads add up fast.

Some have those aswell.

My welder is 48a but the whole shop really runs in 60 since I am a one
man operation and I only run one or 2 things at a time.
The spa alone is 70a with 11kva of heat and a 2,5 HP jet motor and a
3/4 HP circulation motor that loafs along at about 1/10HP in standby
mode when it is not in use..

What is your typical main breaker?

100A = 24KVA. You really run your whole home on just 4.8KVA?! I can exceed that by a factor of 2.5 with my cooker alone. The shower another factor of 2 over that.

Sorry I dropped a decimal place 48KVA.
24KVA is the minimum service you can have for anything, most are 48KVA
(200a) and a large home will have 400a (96KVA)

I see. Although I can ask for more if I want it. I believe I can even get three phase.

3p is rare here in residential. I don't even have 3p on the pole
outside.

It's been years since I did any work on a large home wired for 3 phase power. The large AC units ran on 3 phase power which I believe is because larger AC units were not available at the time that ran on single phase power.

North of Birmingham is Cullman, Al which is not served by Alabama Power but by TVA. In the early 1980's, I did some work in the rural area of Cullman County around Smith Lake and the power lines in the area consisted of a single high voltage line connected to one side of a transformer and a ground rod connected to the other side of the transformer. I don't recall the kv on the power line but the power from the transformer was standard single phase 240vac. It's the only place I've seen a power distribution system like that. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Rural Monster

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 01:10:25 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

I don't even have 3p on the pole
outside.

Sure? The way it's done here, I'm on phase one, my neighbour is on phase 2, and the other neighbour is phase 3. They alternate to spread the load of the transformer. Your nearest transformer must have three phases, where do they go?

--

Nope, There is just a single phase primary coming down the road, The
other 2 phases will go down different paths to other transformers.

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/transformer.jpg

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 01:11:04 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

That is the standard size. They generally have a 22-23a heating coil
and a 1/4-1/6 hp motor plus an insignificant controller load..

We tend to wash 5kg of washing, then dry it for about an hour and a bit. I guess your dryers are faster. Why the hurry?

We have **** to do ;-)
A dryer cycle for a full load is about 45 minutes but it has a sensor
that adjusts as the load gets dry and may run longer or shorter,
depending on how it is doing

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 01:12:52 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 00:52:39 -0000, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/31/2017 7:26 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 23:16:44 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

Cooktop is usually 20a but may spec a 30a circuit. A new 3 ton AC

Why is it measured in tins? They can't weigh that much.

"Ton" is just A/C speak for 12000 BTU.


A ton is the amount of heat removed by an air conditioning system that
would melt 1 ton (2000 lbs.) of ice in 24 hours.````

A ton is the cooling capacity of an air conditioning system. One ton is
equal to the amount of heat required (288,000 Btu) to melt one ton of
ice in a 24-hour period. A one-ton air conditioner is rated at 12,000
Btu per hour (288,000/24). A two-ton unit would be rated at 24,000 Btu
per hour.

So completely nonsensical when trying to work out how much it'll cool air in a house.

That is why I said it is just AC speak.
They do use a rough guide of 500 sq/ft to the ton but that is just a
sanity check. They are supposed to do a calculation based on the
insulation, number and size of windows, doors etc and "degree days"
(an estimation of the weather at that location). Too big is as bad as
too small.

On 1/31/2017 9:06 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 8:35:29 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:51:09 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:19:50 -0000, wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:04:52 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 20:43:06 -0000, Charles Bishop wrote:

Howdy,

Sis had me look at an electrical problem she had - it turned out to be a
loose wire. However, when I was poking around, I discovered a couple of
odd things and need to know what to tell her what to do.

There are two circuits I discovered that appear to have 120V outlets and
switches on a 30A breaker. I didn't know enough to tell her whether this
was allowed or not - I really suspect not but wanted to ask here first.
My first thought was if there was a problem with, say a drill motor on
this circuit, any problem with it wouldn't be enough to trip the breaker.

This most likely resulted from the previous owner hiring incompetent
workers and they did poor work, just to get electrical power to the
shed. I found a power cord used as electrical cable so they didn't have
to break into the wall - it ran from an (E) outlet (connected by
stripping the wires and connected to the screws on the outlet) along the
wall to a multiplug on its end so that power could be had at the other
side of the shed. I removed this of course. So, poor work in other
places wouldn't surprise me.

Then, what should she do? I thought getting the circuits tracked down
and then replacing the 30A breaker with two 15's or 20s, depending on
the wiring and what's on them. I'd like her to have some idea before she
has an electrician come out.


[snip]

You folks just do not have as many electrical appliances I guess. To
start with I doubt air conditioning is that prevalent. In most of the
US it is standard equipment. Our "cookers" (ranges) are typically 40a
or maybe 50a. If you can't get natural gas, you will have electric
water heaters and maybe even electric heat. Add a swimming pool,
electric dryer, spa and perhaps a shop, then the loads add up fast.


My double electric oven is 40A, IDK what the electric cooktop
is, but probably 30A? AC breaker is 50A, probably only pulls
half that when it up and running. Hot tub is on a 40A.
Electric dryer is 30A.

Your up and running comment suggests that the load drops after you first
turn the stove/oven on. Think about that a moment, Trader.

You're not talking about an AC compressor or a large table saw, etc.
Your electric stove is a resistance load and that will be constant
unlike the startup load of a motor. Granted, to come close to drawing
the circuit rated 50 AMPS, you'd need to have all the burners turned on
and the oven in preheat mode (assuming yours uses both the broiler and
oven element to do so).

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 01:31:23 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 01/31/2017 06:26 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 23:16:44 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

Cooktop is usually 20a but may spec a 30a circuit. A new 3 ton AC

Why is it measured in tins? They can't weigh that much.

"Ton" is just A/C speak for 12000 BTU.

IIRC it has something to do with a ton of ice.

Hang on, why was BTU mentioned? That's an archaic British unit. America uses this?

--
What should you do if a girl sits on your hand?
Try to get her off.

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 02:40:09 -0000, Uncle Monster wrote:

On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 3:09:36 PM UTC-6, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 03:24:00 -0000, Uncle Monster wrote:

On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 7:35:29 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:51:09 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:19:50 -0000, wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:04:52 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 20:43:06 -0000, Charles Bishop wrote:

Howdy,

Sis had me look at an electrical problem she had - it turned out to be a
loose wire. However, when I was poking around, I discovered a couple of
odd things and need to know what to tell her what to do.

There are two circuits I discovered that appear to have 120V outlets and
switches on a 30A breaker. I didn't know enough to tell her whether this
was allowed or not - I really suspect not but wanted to ask here first.
My first thought was if there was a problem with, say a drill motor on
this circuit, any problem with it wouldn't be enough to trip the breaker.

This most likely resulted from the previous owner hiring incompetent
workers and they did poor work, just to get electrical power to the
shed. I found a power cord used as electrical cable so they didn't have
to break into the wall - it ran from an (E) outlet (connected by
stripping the wires and connected to the screws on the outlet) along the
wall to a multiplug on its end so that power could be had at the other
side of the shed. I removed this of course. So, poor work in other
places wouldn't surprise me.

Then, what should she do? I thought getting the circuits tracked down
and then replacing the 30A breaker with two 15's or 20s, depending on
the wiring and what's on them. I'd like her to have some idea before she
has an electrician come out.

Also, for me - I used a voltage tester when looking around - it was the
kind that chirps and lights up when it's near wiring that has power. It
also chirps and lights up if you stick one end into an outlet..

However I found that there could also be transient chirps if I moved it
quickly past a piece of metal and when I was close to wiring rather than
very close to it. In one case, this made it difficult to tell which
outlet or switch had the power. Was I using it correctly?

Americans make things so complicated. In the UK, we have all our outlets (or half of them, on two circuits) on a 30A breaker. Each appliance has a fuse in the plug, dependant on what that appliance is.

I bet you don't have 4.8 KVA homes as the defacto standard with some
double that. We also have more required circuits. (2 in the kitchen,
one in the laundry and one in the bathroom as a minimum plus the
general lighting and appliance circuits.

No need for so many circuits. We typically have one (or two in larger homes) 30A 240V circuit(s) for outlets, one 30A 240V circuit for the cooker, one 15A 240V circuit for the water heater, and two 5A 240V circuits for lighting.

You folks just do not have as many electrical appliances I guess. To
start with I doubt air conditioning is that prevalent. In most of the
US it is standard equipment. Our "cookers" (ranges) are typically 40a
or maybe 50a. If you can't get natural gas, you will have electric
water heaters and maybe even electric heat. Add a swimming pool,
electric dryer, spa and perhaps a shop, then the loads add up fast..



What is your typical main breaker?

100A = 24KVA. You really run your whole home on just 4.8KVA?! I can exceed that by a factor of 2.5 with my cooker alone. The shower another factor of 2 over that.

Sorry I dropped a decimal place 48KVA.
24KVA is the minimum service you can have for anything, most are 48KVA
(200a) and a large home will have 400a (96KVA)

In US terms we would call your ring circuit a feeder and the branch
circuit is the cord beyond the plug. (last overcurrent device in the
circuit)

Would you guess it's less expensive to wire a home in the UK since they're using smaller wire(less copper) to get the same wattage at twice the voltage. I find it interesting that their transformers must be heavier because of the lower frequency of their power systems. Which make me wonder why Europe settled on a 50hz standard? Off I go to do some research. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Shocked Monster

Not much difference in size between 50 and 60Hz actually. They get a lot smaller with much higher frequencies though - look inside a computer power supply.
--


Have you ever seen 400hz ac powered gear out of an aircraft? The transformers are very small. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

Uncle Hertzian Monster

Yes, but we're talking about the difference between 50 and 60 Hz.

--
Send all problems by email
Only phone me with EMERGENCY problems (e.g. LPT1 on fire)

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 03:28:42 -0000, Uncle Monster wrote:

On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 6:21:29 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 21:09:15 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 01:34:57 -0000, wrote:

You folks just do not have as many electrical appliances I guess. To
start with I doubt air conditioning is that prevalent. In most of the
US it is standard equipment.

That only uses about a kW?

More like 6kw


Our "cookers" (ranges) are typically 40a
or maybe 50a.

At 240V presumably. Not much higher than our 30A. And there are a fair number with double width cookers (two ovens, six hobs).

You are going to be looking at 50 or even 60a then

If you can't get natural gas, you will have electric
water heaters

We do too. Gas isn't everywhere.

and maybe even electric heat.

Same here.

My electric heat strips are 10kva.

Add a swimming pool,
electric dryer, spa and perhaps a shop, then the loads add up fast..

Some have those aswell.

My welder is 48a but the whole shop really runs in 60 since I am a one
man operation and I only run one or 2 things at a time.
The spa alone is 70a with 11kva of heat and a 2,5 HP jet motor and a
3/4 HP circulation motor that loafs along at about 1/10HP in standby
mode when it is not in use..

What is your typical main breaker?

100A = 24KVA. You really run your whole home on just 4.8KVA?! I can exceed that by a factor of 2.5 with my cooker alone. The shower another factor of 2 over that.

Sorry I dropped a decimal place 48KVA.
24KVA is the minimum service you can have for anything, most are 48KVA
(200a) and a large home will have 400a (96KVA)

I see. Although I can ask for more if I want it. I believe I can even get three phase.

3p is rare here in residential. I don't even have 3p on the pole
outside.

It's been years since I did any work on a large home wired for 3 phase power. The large AC units ran on 3 phase power which I believe is because larger AC units were not available at the time that ran on single phase power.

North of Birmingham is Cullman, Al which is not served by Alabama Power but by TVA. In the early 1980's, I did some work in the rural area of Cullman County around Smith Lake and the power lines in the area consisted of a single high voltage line connected to one side of a transformer and a ground rod connected to the other side of the transformer. I don't recall the kv on the power line but the power from the transformer was standard single phase 240vac. It's the only place I've seen a power distribution system like that. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Rural Monster

Three phase is on the national grid. Supplying only one phase off that would be lop-sided. That's why all three phases come right to every transformer in the UK, then alternate houses are connected to each phase.

--
HELP WANTED:
Baiters. Local fishing boats need 4 baiters to bate hooks for tourists. Must have strong hands and work hard. Good pay-$15 per hour, and benefits.
After 6 weeks, 2 best baiters will be promoted to masterbaiters. Apply in person to Jon at the Gulf Marina.

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 16:38:12 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:


Three phase is on the national grid. Supplying only one phase off that would be lop-sided. That's why all three phases come right to every transformer in the UK, then alternate houses are connected to each phase.

If you only fed on street that might be a problem but they alternate
the load by distributing the 3 phases along roughly equal loads on
multiple streets.
It basically just saves them wire. The neutral will be going
everywhere, common from primary and secondary and a single phase
conductor on the primary. We use wye distribution here.
We also end up with more transformers than you see in europe. There is
a transformer for every 1-3 houses. That probably got started when
houses were pretty far apart and it was more efficient to distribute
medium voltage than to try to go very far with low voltage.

On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 8:13:19 PM UTC-5, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 00:52:39 -0000, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/31/2017 7:26 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 23:16:44 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

Cooktop is usually 20a but may spec a 30a circuit. A new 3 ton AC

Why is it measured in tins? They can't weigh that much.

"Ton" is just A/C speak for 12000 BTU.


A ton is the amount of heat removed by an air conditioning system that
would melt 1 ton (2000 lbs.) of ice in 24 hours.````

A ton is the cooling capacity of an air conditioning system. One ton is
equal to the amount of heat required (288,000 Btu) to melt one ton of
ice in a 24-hour period. A one-ton air conditioner is rated at 12,000
Btu per hour (288,000/24). A two-ton unit would be rated at 24,000 Btu
per hour.

So completely nonsensical when trying to work out how much it'll cool air in a house.

--
Why are hemorrhoids called "hemorrhoids" instead of "asteroids"?

No more "nonsensical" than BTUs.

On Wednesday, February 1, 2017 at 8:54:56 AM UTC-5, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 1/31/2017 9:06 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 8:35:29 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:51:09 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:19:50 -0000, wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:04:52 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 20:43:06 -0000, Charles Bishop wrote:

Howdy,

Sis had me look at an electrical problem she had - it turned out to be a
loose wire. However, when I was poking around, I discovered a couple of
odd things and need to know what to tell her what to do.

There are two circuits I discovered that appear to have 120V outlets and
switches on a 30A breaker. I didn't know enough to tell her whether this
was allowed or not - I really suspect not but wanted to ask here first.
My first thought was if there was a problem with, say a drill motor on
this circuit, any problem with it wouldn't be enough to trip the breaker.

This most likely resulted from the previous owner hiring incompetent
workers and they did poor work, just to get electrical power to the
shed. I found a power cord used as electrical cable so they didn't have
to break into the wall - it ran from an (E) outlet (connected by
stripping the wires and connected to the screws on the outlet) along the
wall to a multiplug on its end so that power could be had at the other
side of the shed. I removed this of course. So, poor work in other
places wouldn't surprise me.

Then, what should she do? I thought getting the circuits tracked down
and then replacing the 30A breaker with two 15's or 20s, depending on
the wiring and what's on them. I'd like her to have some idea before she
has an electrician come out.


[snip]

You folks just do not have as many electrical appliances I guess. To
start with I doubt air conditioning is that prevalent. In most of the
US it is standard equipment. Our "cookers" (ranges) are typically 40a
or maybe 50a. If you can't get natural gas, you will have electric
water heaters and maybe even electric heat. Add a swimming pool,
electric dryer, spa and perhaps a shop, then the loads add up fast.


My double electric oven is 40A, IDK what the electric cooktop
is, but probably 30A? AC breaker is 50A , probably only pulls
half that when it up and running. Hot tub is on a 40A.
Electric dryer is 30A.

Your up and running comment suggests that the load drops after you first
turn the stove/oven on. Think about that a moment, Trader.

You're not talking about an AC compressor

Yes I am.

"AC breaker is 50A , probably only pulls half that when it up and running."

I meant central AC, not AC in the voltage sense, since that's implied.
But I see how it could be confusing.

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 05:27:24 -0000, wrote:

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 01:10:25 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

I don't even have 3p on the pole
outside.

Sure? The way it's done here, I'm on phase one, my neighbour is on phase 2, and the other neighbour is phase 3. They alternate to spread the load of the transformer. Your nearest transformer must have three phases, where do they go?

--

Nope, There is just a single phase primary coming down the road, The
other 2 phases will go down different paths to other transformers.

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/transformer.jpg

That way should use less cable, instead of our way of having all three phases everywhere. Should be easy enough to add new houses onto whatever is appropriate.

Mind you, the transformer across the road from me takes all three phases in, and gives three out. I thought this was more efficient, but I'm not sure.

--
Researchers have recently unearthed the text of the first transcontinental telegraph message. Reportedly, it reads
ENLARGE YOUR MALE MEMBER STOP GUARANTEED RESULTS STOP ...

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 05:29:49 -0000, wrote:

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 01:11:04 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

That is the standard size. They generally have a 22-23a heating coil
and a 1/4-1/6 hp motor plus an insignificant controller load..

We tend to wash 5kg of washing, then dry it for about an hour and a bit. I guess your dryers are faster. Why the hurry?

We have **** to do ;-)
A dryer cycle for a full load is about 45 minutes but it has a sensor
that adjusts as the load gets dry and may run longer or shorter,
depending on how it is doing

But you don't need to wait for it. I assume you have more than one set of clothes? It wouldn't matter if it took all day to dry!

--
Does a pedometer detect child molesters?

On Wednesday, February 1, 2017 at 10:38:32 AM UTC-6, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 03:28:42 -0000, Uncle Monster wrote:

On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 6:21:29 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 21:09:15 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 01:34:57 -0000, wrote:

You folks just do not have as many electrical appliances I guess. To
start with I doubt air conditioning is that prevalent. In most of the
US it is standard equipment.

That only uses about a kW?

More like 6kw

Our "cookers" (ranges) are typically 40a
or maybe 50a.

At 240V presumably. Not much higher than our 30A. And there are a fair number with double width cookers (two ovens, six hobs).

You are going to be looking at 50 or even 60a then

If you can't get natural gas, you will have electric
water heaters

We do too. Gas isn't everywhere.

and maybe even electric heat.

Same here.

My electric heat strips are 10kva.

Add a swimming pool,
electric dryer, spa and perhaps a shop, then the loads add up fast.

Some have those aswell.

My welder is 48a but the whole shop really runs in 60 since I am a one
man operation and I only run one or 2 things at a time.
The spa alone is 70a with 11kva of heat and a 2,5 HP jet motor and a
3/4 HP circulation motor that loafs along at about 1/10HP in standby
mode when it is not in use..

What is your typical main breaker?

100A = 24KVA. You really run your whole home on just 4.8KVA?! I can exceed that by a factor of 2.5 with my cooker alone. The shower another factor of 2 over that.

Sorry I dropped a decimal place 48KVA.
24KVA is the minimum service you can have for anything, most are 48KVA
(200a) and a large home will have 400a (96KVA)

I see. Although I can ask for more if I want it. I believe I can even get three phase.

3p is rare here in residential. I don't even have 3p on the pole
outside.

It's been years since I did any work on a large home wired for 3 phase power. The large AC units ran on 3 phase power which I believe is because larger AC units were not available at the time that ran on single phase power.

On 02/01/2017 11:47 AM, trader_4 wrote:

[snip]

Why are hemorrhoids called "hemorrhoids" instead of "asteroids"?

No more "nonsensical" than BTUs.


No more, less. "hemo-" means blood (unlike "astro-" meaning star).

BTU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_thermal_unit
The metric unit is the calorie.

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 18:04:04 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 05:29:49 -0000, wrote:

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 01:11:04 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

That is the standard size. They generally have a 22-23a heating coil
and a 1/4-1/6 hp motor plus an insignificant controller load..

We tend to wash 5kg of washing, then dry it for about an hour and a bit. I guess your dryers are faster. Why the hurry?

We have **** to do ;-)
A dryer cycle for a full load is about 45 minutes but it has a sensor
that adjusts as the load gets dry and may run longer or shorter,
depending on how it is doing

But you don't need to wait for it. I assume you have more than one set of clothes? It wouldn't matter if it took all day to dry!

I suppose, if you only do one load a day but I think they try to make
the wash and dry cycle as close to the same time as possible. People
with lots of kids may be doing several loads a day and it is easiest
if you make fewer trips to the laundry.

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 20:25:50 -0000, wrote:

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 18:04:04 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 05:29:49 -0000, wrote:

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 01:11:04 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

That is the standard size. They generally have a 22-23a heating coil
and a 1/4-1/6 hp motor plus an insignificant controller load..

We tend to wash 5kg of washing, then dry it for about an hour and a bit. I guess your dryers are faster. Why the hurry?

We have **** to do ;-)
A dryer cycle for a full load is about 45 minutes but it has a sensor
that adjusts as the load gets dry and may run longer or shorter,
depending on how it is doing

But you don't need to wait for it. I assume you have more than one set of clothes? It wouldn't matter if it took all day to dry!

I suppose, if you only do one load a day but I think they try to make
the wash and dry cycle as close to the same time as possible. People
with lots of kids may be doing several loads a day and it is easiest
if you make fewer trips to the laundry.

Even with say 4 kids, you don't need to wash more than once a day.

--
An elderly British gentleman of 83 arrived in Paris by plane. At the French
customs desk he took a few minutes to locate his passport in his carry-on
bag. 'You have been to France before, Monsieur?' the customs officer asked
sarcastically.
The elderly gentleman admitted he had been to France previously.
'Then you should know enough to 'ave your passport ready,' the customs
officer said. The elderly gentleman replied, 'The last time I was here, I
didn't have to show it.'
'Impossible! The British always have to show their passports on arrival in
France !'
The Man gave the Frenchman a long hard look. Then he quietly explained;
'Well, when I came ashore on the Beach on D-Day in 1944, I couldn't find any
****ing Frenchmen to show it to...!!

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 17:36:48 -0000, wrote:

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 16:38:12 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:


Three phase is on the national grid. Supplying only one phase off that would be lop-sided. That's why all three phases come right to every transformer in the UK, then alternate houses are connected to each phase.

If you only fed on street that might be a problem but they alternate
the load by distributing the 3 phases along roughly equal loads on
multiple streets.
It basically just saves them wire. The neutral will be going
everywhere, common from primary and secondary and a single phase
conductor on the primary. We use wye distribution here.
We also end up with more transformers than you see in europe. There is
a transformer for every 1-3 houses. That probably got started when
houses were pretty far apart and it was more efficient to distribute
medium voltage than to try to go very far with low voltage.

I guess it depends on the topological distribution of houses. More transformers, more wire, more current losses, you have to pick something.

--
Cold showers/baths/swimming:
1) Cure Hayfever. Apparently this is due to the strengthening effect on the mucous membranes.
2) Help circulation by bringing blood to capilliaries and increasing circulation through the body.
3) Improve the internal furnace, be warmer when it's cold.
4) Make losing weight easier - generating heat burns loads of calories.
5) Detoxify, by contracting muscles to eliminate toxins - skin and hair also improves.
6) Save energy.
7) Increase libido (contrary to the old wives' tale).

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 18:26:52 -0000, Uncle Monster wrote:

On Wednesday, February 1, 2017 at 10:38:32 AM UTC-6, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 03:28:42 -0000, Uncle Monster wrote:

On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 6:21:29 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 21:09:15 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 01:34:57 -0000, wrote:

You folks just do not have as many electrical appliances I guess. To
start with I doubt air conditioning is that prevalent. In most of the
US it is standard equipment.

That only uses about a kW?

More like 6kw

Our "cookers" (ranges) are typically 40a
or maybe 50a.

At 240V presumably. Not much higher than our 30A. And there are a fair number with double width cookers (two ovens, six hobs).

You are going to be looking at 50 or even 60a then

If you can't get natural gas, you will have electric
water heaters

We do too. Gas isn't everywhere.

and maybe even electric heat.

Same here.

My electric heat strips are 10kva.

Add a swimming pool,
electric dryer, spa and perhaps a shop, then the loads add up fast.

Some have those aswell.

My welder is 48a but the whole shop really runs in 60 since I am a one
man operation and I only run one or 2 things at a time.
The spa alone is 70a with 11kva of heat and a 2,5 HP jet motor and a
3/4 HP circulation motor that loafs along at about 1/10HP in standby
mode when it is not in use..

What is your typical main breaker?

100A = 24KVA. You really run your whole home on just 4.8KVA?! I can exceed that by a factor of 2.5 with my cooker alone. The shower another factor of 2 over that.

Sorry I dropped a decimal place 48KVA.
24KVA is the minimum service you can have for anything, most are 48KVA
(200a) and a large home will have 400a (96KVA)

I see. Although I can ask for more if I want it. I believe I can even get three phase.

3p is rare here in residential. I don't even have 3p on the pole
outside.

It's been years since I did any work on a large home wired for 3 phase power. The large AC units ran on 3 phase power which I believe is because larger AC units were not available at the time that ran on single phase power.

North of Birmingham is Cullman, Al which is not served by Alabama Power but by TVA. In the early 1980's, I did some work in the rural area of Cullman County around Smith Lake and the power lines in the area consisted of a single high voltage line connected to one side of a transformer and a ground rod connected to the other side of the transformer. I don't recall the kv on the power line but the power from the transformer was standard single phase 240vac. It's the only place I've seen a power distribution system like that. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Rural Monster

Three phase is on the national grid. Supplying only one phase off that would be lop-sided. That's why all three phases come right to every transformer in the UK, then alternate houses are connected to each phase..
--

Alabama Power runs 3 phase here in the city. I'm not sure about sparsely populated rural areas. I don't think you realize the difference in size of The United States and The UK. The UK is 241,590 sq km in land area and The U.S. is
9.16 million sq km. The UK would fit inside the state of Oregon. A power company is going to run power everywhere in the most economical manner. It would be absurd to run 3 phase power in a sparsely populated area where homes/farms/ranches are miles apart. The family farm that I own one ninth of has a 1/4 mile long driveway but It's been so long since I've been there that I don't recall what the power lines looked like. I'm guessing there is a transformer down the mountain on the road to supply power to the homes that are relatively close together. One neighbor has a home across the road from the driveway entrance for my family farm and I suppose it's connected to the same transformer. I think my father had to pay the power company to set power poles and run lines up the mountainside to our home but it's been more than a half century since the house was built and my family moved there from a small town. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-...aphy/Area/Land

[8~{} Uncle Transformed Monster

That makes sense.

--
What is the punishment for bigamy?
Two mother-in-laws.

In article , says...


I suppose, if you only do one load a day but I think they try to make
the wash and dry cycle as close to the same time as possible. People
with lots of kids may be doing several loads a day and it is easiest
if you make fewer trips to the laundry.

Even with say 4 kids, you don't need to wash more than once a day.


Usually atleast 2 a day. ONe for the whites and another for the color.
Often bleach is added to the whites.

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 19:26:51 -0000, Sam E wrote:

On 02/01/2017 11:47 AM, trader_4 wrote:

[snip]

Why are hemorrhoids called "hemorrhoids" instead of "asteroids"?

No more "nonsensical" than BTUs.


No more, less. "hemo-" means blood (unlike "astro-" meaning star).

BTU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_thermal_unit
The metric unit is the calorie.

No, for power it's the kWh. We don't use BTUs in the UK anymore.

Calories are only for your body.

--
Artificial intelligence is always better than real stupidity.

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 21:44:45 -0000, Ralph Mowery wrote:

In article , says...


I suppose, if you only do one load a day but I think they try to make
the wash and dry cycle as close to the same time as possible. People
with lots of kids may be doing several loads a day and it is easiest
if you make fewer trips to the laundry.

Even with say 4 kids, you don't need to wash more than once a day.


Usually atleast 2 a day. ONe for the whites and another for the color.
Often bleach is added to the whites.

Do you change all your clothes every 2 hours or something? You're insane. When I was a kid (a family of 4), the washing machine was used twice a week.

--
To determine how tightly to do up a nut, continue until you hear a crack, then back off half a turn.

On 02/01/2017 04:31 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

[snip]

BTU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_thermal_unit
The metric unit is the calorie.

No, for power it's the kWh. We don't use BTUs in the UK anymore.

Calories are only for your body.


It's a unit of energy. Where the energy is is irrelevant.

They can measure the Calorie content of food by burning it and measuring
the heat produced. This isn't in anyone's body.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"An idea is an eye given by God for the seeing of God. Some of these
eyes we cannot bear to look out of, we blind them as quickly as
possible." [Russell Hoban, "Pilgermann"]

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 23:52:43 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 02/01/2017 04:31 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

[snip]

BTU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_thermal_unit
The metric unit is the calorie.

No, for power it's the kWh. We don't use BTUs in the UK anymore.

Calories are only for your body.

It's a unit of energy. Where the energy is is irrelevant.

They can measure the Calorie content of food by burning it and measuring
the heat produced. This isn't in anyone's body.

Nobody uses calories outside of the human body. We'd be better using watts everywhere though.

--
What has four legs, is big, green, fuzzy, and if it fell out of a tree would kill you?
A pool table.

On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 00:06:15 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 23:52:43 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 02/01/2017 04:31 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

[snip]

BTU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_thermal_unit
The metric unit is the calorie.

No, for power it's the kWh. We don't use BTUs in the UK anymore.

Calories are only for your body.

It's a unit of energy. Where the energy is is irrelevant.

They can measure the Calorie content of food by burning it and measuring
the heat produced. This isn't in anyone's body.

Nobody uses calories outside of the human body. We'd be better using watts everywhere though.

Watts tells you the cost of running but not the cooling capacity. I
supposed I could talk about the SEER but that might just confuse you
more.

On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 05:12:05 -0000, wrote:

On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 00:06:15 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 23:52:43 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 02/01/2017 04:31 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

[snip]

BTU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_thermal_unit
The metric unit is the calorie.

No, for power it's the kWh. We don't use BTUs in the UK anymore.

Calories are only for your body.

It's a unit of energy. Where the energy is is irrelevant.

They can measure the Calorie content of food by burning it and measuring
the heat produced. This isn't in anyone's body.

Nobody uses calories outside of the human body. We'd be better using watts everywhere though.

Watts tells you the cost of running but not the cooling capacity. I
supposed I could talk about the SEER but that might just confuse you
more.

Of course watts tells you the cooling capacity, it's a measure of power. In fact isn't the BTU energy, like a kWh? That cannot be used to tell how powerful a heater or air conditioner is. You need to know the rate of energy transfer, ie. power. My gas boiler is rated in kW. If I had an air conditioner, it could tell me how many kW can be moved.

--
Q: Why can't you have a Jewish Morris dancer?
A: Because you have to be a complete prick to be a Morris dancer.

On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 15:13:23 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 05:12:05 -0000, wrote:

On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 00:06:15 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 23:52:43 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 02/01/2017 04:31 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

[snip]

BTU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_thermal_unit
The metric unit is the calorie.

No, for power it's the kWh. We don't use BTUs in the UK anymore.

Calories are only for your body.

It's a unit of energy. Where the energy is is irrelevant.

They can measure the Calorie content of food by burning it and measuring
the heat produced. This isn't in anyone's body.

Nobody uses calories outside of the human body. We'd be better using watts everywhere though.

Watts tells you the cost of running but not the cooling capacity. I
supposed I could talk about the SEER but that might just confuse you
more.

Of course watts tells you the cooling capacity, it's a measure of power. In fact isn't the BTU energy, like a kWh? That cannot be used to tell how powerful a heater or air conditioner is. You need to know the rate of energy transfer, ie. power. My gas boiler is rated in kW. If I had an air conditioner, it could tell me how many kW can be moved.

It is just going to create a confusion factor. That is why when I
looked at a UK air conditioner calculator, it out putted BTU/hr along
with KW.
The watts consumed by the unit is not particularly related to the
amount of heat it can move. It all gets down to the efficiency of the
process (SEER) so using watts would result in two "watt" numbers if
you used it for both factors. Salesmen simply find it easier to use
watts for the energy consumption and tons or BTU for the amount of
heat it moves for that amount of input power.
More common is to sell by the ton and deal with the energy consumed by
using the SEER number. Customers understand they may need 3 tons and
will shoot for the balance between a lower price and a higher SEER.
They won't see KW until they start getting electric bills but we also
have a government mandated sticker that will estimate that for all
sorts of things.

On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 16:43:26 -0000, wrote:

On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 15:13:23 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 05:12:05 -0000, wrote:

On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 00:06:15 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Feb 2017 23:52:43 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 02/01/2017 04:31 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

[snip]

BTU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_thermal_unit
The metric unit is the calorie.

No, for power it's the kWh. We don't use BTUs in the UK anymore.

Calories are only for your body.

It's a unit of energy. Where the energy is is irrelevant.

They can measure the Calorie content of food by burning it and measuring
the heat produced. This isn't in anyone's body.

Nobody uses calories outside of the human body. We'd be better using watts everywhere though.

Watts tells you the cost of running but not the cooling capacity. I
supposed I could talk about the SEER but that might just confuse you
more.

Of course watts tells you the cooling capacity, it's a measure of power. In fact isn't the BTU energy, like a kWh? That cannot be used to tell how powerful a heater or air conditioner is. You need to know the rate of energy transfer, ie. power. My gas boiler is rated in kW. If I had an air conditioner, it could tell me how many kW can be moved.

It is just going to create a confusion factor. That is why when I
looked at a UK air conditioner calculator, it out putted BTU/hr along
with KW.
The watts consumed by the unit is not particularly related to the
amount of heat it can move. It all gets down to the efficiency of the
process (SEER) so using watts would result in two "watt" numbers if
you used it for both factors. Salesmen simply find it easier to use
watts for the energy consumption and tons or BTU for the amount of
heat it moves for that amount of input power.
More common is to sell by the ton and deal with the energy consumed by
using the SEER number. Customers understand they may need 3 tons and
will shoot for the balance between a lower price and a higher SEER.
They won't see KW until they start getting electric bills but we also
have a government mandated sticker that will estimate that for all
sorts of things.

Using watts for input and output lets you see the efficiency.

--
Marital Status: Not Good
Wife's Name: Plaintiff

On 02/01/2017 11:12 PM, wrote:

[snip]

Watts tells you the cost of running but not the cooling capacity. I
supposed I could talk about the SEER but that might just confuse you
more.


Watts, calories, BTU, etc... are units of energy. They can be used to
measure electricity. They can be used to measure heat.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

" God... 1) The emperor has no clothes. 2) There is no emperor."

This may be of interest:

http://tinyurl.com/zr6mtrm

Jeff

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:14:14 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 6:05:09 PM UTC-5, James Wilkinson Sword
wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 20:43:06 -0000, Charles Bishop
wrote:

Howdy,

Sis had me look at an electrical problem she had - it turned out to
be a
loose wire. However, when I was poking around, I discovered a
couple of
odd things and need to know what to tell her what to do.

There are two circuits I discovered that appear to have 120V
outlets and
switches on a 30A breaker. I didn't know enough to tell her whether
this
was allowed or not - I really suspect not but wanted to ask here
first.
My first thought was if there was a problem with, say a drill motor on
this circuit, any problem with it wouldn't be enough to trip the
breaker.

This most likely resulted from the previous owner hiring incompetent
workers and they did poor work, just to get electrical power to the
shed. I found a power cord used as electrical cable so they didn't
have
to break into the wall - it ran from an (E) outlet (connected by
stripping the wires and connected to the screws on the outlet)
along the
wall to a multiplug on its end so that power could be had at the other
side of the shed. I removed this of course. So, poor work in other
places wouldn't surprise me.

Then, what should she do? I thought getting the circuits tracked down
and then replacing the 30A breaker with two 15's or 20s, depending on
the wiring and what's on them. I'd like her to have some idea
before she
has an electrician come out.

Also, for me - I used a voltage tester when looking around - it was
the
kind that chirps and lights up when it's near wiring that has
power. It
also chirps and lights up if you stick one end into an outlet.

However I found that there could also be transient chirps if I
moved it
quickly past a piece of metal and when I was close to wiring rather
than
very close to it. In one case, this made it difficult to tell which
outlet or switch had the power. Was I using it correctly?

Americans make things so complicated. In the UK, we have all our
outlets (or half of them, on two circuits) on a 30A breaker. Each
appliance has a fuse in the plug, dependant on what that appliance is.


As pointed out previously, it took all the Queens horses and all the
King's men a week to find the fault in Buckingham palace when one
tea pot shorted out. Must be swell screwing around in the dark too,
when all the lights go out because they are on one breaker. Why
are you so backwards and cheap over there?

Doesn't happen, as we have a fuse in every plug, rated lower than the
main one. If my kettle shorts out, the fuse in the plug blows and
everything else keeps on going.

On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 18:04:21 -0000, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 02/01/2017 11:12 PM, wrote:

[snip]

Watts tells you the cost of running but not the cooling capacity. I
supposed I could talk about the SEER but that might just confuse you
more.


Watts, calories, BTU, etc... are units of energy. They can be used to
measure electricity. They can be used to measure heat.

No, power and energy are not the same thing. You must multiply power by time to get energy.

Watts is power.

Calories and BTU are energy.

--
What does Michael Jackson like about twenty-eight year olds?
The fact that there are twenty of them.

Looks like there are advantages to all sorts of frequencies, depending what you're doing with it.


On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 18:08:23 -0000, Jeff Wisnia wrote:

This may be of interest:

http://tinyurl.com/zr6mtrm

Jeff

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:14:14 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 6:05:09 PM UTC-5, James Wilkinson Sword
wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 20:43:06 -0000, Charles Bishop
wrote:

Howdy,

Sis had me look at an electrical problem she had - it turned out to
be a
loose wire. However, when I was poking around, I discovered a
couple of
odd things and need to know what to tell her what to do.

There are two circuits I discovered that appear to have 120V
outlets and
switches on a 30A breaker. I didn't know enough to tell her whether
this
was allowed or not - I really suspect not but wanted to ask here
first.
My first thought was if there was a problem with, say a drill motor on
this circuit, any problem with it wouldn't be enough to trip the
breaker.

This most likely resulted from the previous owner hiring incompetent
workers and they did poor work, just to get electrical power to the
shed. I found a power cord used as electrical cable so they didn't
have
to break into the wall - it ran from an (E) outlet (connected by
stripping the wires and connected to the screws on the outlet)
along the
wall to a multiplug on its end so that power could be had at the other
side of the shed. I removed this of course. So, poor work in other
places wouldn't surprise me.

Then, what should she do? I thought getting the circuits tracked down
and then replacing the 30A breaker with two 15's or 20s, depending on
the wiring and what's on them. I'd like her to have some idea
before she
has an electrician come out.

Also, for me - I used a voltage tester when looking around - it was
the
kind that chirps and lights up when it's near wiring that has
power. It
also chirps and lights up if you stick one end into an outlet.

However I found that there could also be transient chirps if I
moved it
quickly past a piece of metal and when I was close to wiring rather
than
very close to it. In one case, this made it difficult to tell which
outlet or switch had the power. Was I using it correctly?

Americans make things so complicated. In the UK, we have all our
outlets (or half of them, on two circuits) on a 30A breaker. Each
appliance has a fuse in the plug, dependant on what that appliance is.


As pointed out previously, it took all the Queens horses and all the
King's men a week to find the fault in Buckingham palace when one
tea pot shorted out. Must be swell screwing around in the dark too,
when all the lights go out because they are on one breaker. Why
are you so backwards and cheap over there?

Doesn't happen, as we have a fuse in every plug, rated lower than the
main one. If my kettle shorts out, the fuse in the plug blows and
everything else keeps on going.




--
"Dear Santa, this year please send clothes for all those poor ladies in Daddy's computer, Amen."