Howdy,

Sis had me look at an electrical problem she had - it turned out to be a
loose wire. However, when I was poking around, I discovered a couple of
odd things and need to know what to tell her what to do.

There are two circuits I discovered that appear to have 120V outlets and
switches on a 30A breaker. I didn't know enough to tell her whether this
was allowed or not - I really suspect not but wanted to ask here first.
My first thought was if there was a problem with, say a drill motor on
this circuit, any problem with it wouldn't be enough to trip the breaker.

This most likely resulted from the previous owner hiring incompetent
workers and they did poor work, just to get electrical power to the
shed. I found a power cord used as electrical cable so they didn't have
to break into the wall - it ran from an (E) outlet (connected by
stripping the wires and connected to the screws on the outlet) along the
wall to a multiplug on its end so that power could be had at the other
side of the shed. I removed this of course. So, poor work in other
places wouldn't surprise me.

Then, what should she do? I thought getting the circuits tracked down
and then replacing the 30A breaker with two 15's or 20s, depending on
the wiring and what's on them. I'd like her to have some idea before she
has an electrician come out.

Also, for me - I used a voltage tester when looking around - it was the
kind that chirps and lights up when it's near wiring that has power. It
also chirps and lights up if you stick one end into an outlet.

However I found that there could also be transient chirps if I moved it
quickly past a piece of metal and when I was close to wiring rather than
very close to it. In one case, this made it difficult to tell which
outlet or switch had the power. Was I using it correctly?

Charles

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 12:43:06 -0800, Charles Bishop
wrote:

Howdy,

Sis had me look at an electrical problem she had - it turned out to be a
loose wire. However, when I was poking around, I discovered a couple of
odd things and need to know what to tell her what to do.

There are two circuits I discovered that appear to have 120V outlets and
switches on a 30A breaker. I didn't know enough to tell her whether this
was allowed or not - I really suspect not but wanted to ask here first.
My first thought was if there was a problem with, say a drill motor on
this circuit, any problem with it wouldn't be enough to trip the breaker.

This most likely resulted from the previous owner hiring incompetent
workers and they did poor work, just to get electrical power to the
shed. I found a power cord used as electrical cable so they didn't have
to break into the wall - it ran from an (E) outlet (connected by
stripping the wires and connected to the screws on the outlet) along the
wall to a multiplug on its end so that power could be had at the other
side of the shed. I removed this of course. So, poor work in other
places wouldn't surprise me.

Then, what should she do? I thought getting the circuits tracked down
and then replacing the 30A breaker with two 15's or 20s, depending on
the wiring and what's on them. I'd like her to have some idea before she
has an electrician come out.

Also, for me - I used a voltage tester when looking around - it was the
kind that chirps and lights up when it's near wiring that has power. It
also chirps and lights up if you stick one end into an outlet.

However I found that there could also be transient chirps if I moved it
quickly past a piece of metal and when I was close to wiring rather than
very close to it. In one case, this made it difficult to tell which
outlet or switch had the power. Was I using it correctly?

Charles

The short answer is if it is 14ga copper, it gets a 15 and if it is
12ga copper it gets a 20.
Even if it is 10ga copper, you can't hook a regular 5-15 receptacle to
it.

On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 4:27:05 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 12:43:06 -0800, Charles Bishop
wrote:

Howdy,

Sis had me look at an electrical problem she had - it turned out to be a
loose wire. However, when I was poking around, I discovered a couple of
odd things and need to know what to tell her what to do.

There are two circuits I discovered that appear to have 120V outlets and
switches on a 30A breaker. I didn't know enough to tell her whether this
was allowed or not - I really suspect not but wanted to ask here first.
My first thought was if there was a problem with, say a drill motor on
this circuit, any problem with it wouldn't be enough to trip the breaker.

This most likely resulted from the previous owner hiring incompetent
workers and they did poor work, just to get electrical power to the
shed. I found a power cord used as electrical cable so they didn't have
to break into the wall - it ran from an (E) outlet (connected by
stripping the wires and connected to the screws on the outlet) along the
wall to a multiplug on its end so that power could be had at the other
side of the shed. I removed this of course. So, poor work in other
places wouldn't surprise me.

Then, what should she do? I thought getting the circuits tracked down
and then replacing the 30A breaker with two 15's or 20s, depending on
the wiring and what's on them. I'd like her to have some idea before she
has an electrician come out.

Also, for me - I used a voltage tester when looking around - it was the
kind that chirps and lights up when it's near wiring that has power. It
also chirps and lights up if you stick one end into an outlet.

However I found that there could also be transient chirps if I moved it
quickly past a piece of metal and when I was close to wiring rather than
very close to it. In one case, this made it difficult to tell which
outlet or switch had the power. Was I using it correctly?

Charles

The short answer is if it is 14ga copper, it gets a 15 and if it is
12ga copper it gets a 20.
Even if it is 10ga copper, you can't hook a regular 5-15 receptacle to
it.

Hopefully half the house isn't on that circuit, in which case it
could be easily rectified. Sounds like it's time to get a pro in
there, find out what all is wrong, before something bad happens.

In article ,
says...


There are two circuits I discovered that appear to have 120V outlets and
switches on a 30A breaker. I didn't know enough to tell her whether this
was allowed or not - I really suspect not but wanted to ask here first.
My first thought was if there was a problem with, say a drill motor on
this circuit, any problem with it wouldn't be enough to trip the breaker.

This most likely resulted from the previous owner hiring incompetent
workers and they did poor work, just to get electrical power to the
shed. I found a power cord used as electrical cable so they didn't have
to break into the wall - it ran from an (E) outlet (connected by
stripping the wires and connected to the screws on the outlet) along the
wall to a multiplug on its end so that power could be had at the other
side of the shed. I removed this of course. So, poor work in other
places wouldn't surprise me.

Then, what should she do? I thought getting the circuits tracked down
and then replacing the 30A breaker with two 15's or 20s, depending on
the wiring and what's on them. I'd like her to have some idea before she
has an electrician come out.

Also, for me - I used a voltage tester when looking around - it was the
kind that chirps and lights up when it's near wiring that has power. It
also chirps and lights up if you stick one end into an outlet.

However I found that there could also be transient chirps if I moved it
quickly past a piece of metal and when I was close to wiring rather than
very close to it. In one case, this made it difficult to tell which
outlet or switch had the power. Was I using it correctly?

Charles

Look at the size of the wires connected to the breakers. If #12 thena
20 amp breaker would be the max and if # 14 then 15 amp would be the
max. Unless there is some very specila case, a 30 amp 120 volt breaker
would not be used.

You are using the tester correctly. They often beep if moved fast near
objects. I seldom use one but if they do light up there is some kind of
electrical field , even if it is static electricity like you get if you
rub your feet acrost the carpet. I often just rub them on my shirt just
to test them. Usually sticking it in one side of the outlet it should
beep and not the other if there is power on the circuit, as one is the
hot and one the neutral.

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 20:43:06 -0000, Charles Bishop wrote:

Howdy,

Sis had me look at an electrical problem she had - it turned out to be a
loose wire. However, when I was poking around, I discovered a couple of
odd things and need to know what to tell her what to do.

There are two circuits I discovered that appear to have 120V outlets and
switches on a 30A breaker. I didn't know enough to tell her whether this
was allowed or not - I really suspect not but wanted to ask here first.
My first thought was if there was a problem with, say a drill motor on
this circuit, any problem with it wouldn't be enough to trip the breaker.

This most likely resulted from the previous owner hiring incompetent
workers and they did poor work, just to get electrical power to the
shed. I found a power cord used as electrical cable so they didn't have
to break into the wall - it ran from an (E) outlet (connected by
stripping the wires and connected to the screws on the outlet) along the
wall to a multiplug on its end so that power could be had at the other
side of the shed. I removed this of course. So, poor work in other
places wouldn't surprise me.

Then, what should she do? I thought getting the circuits tracked down
and then replacing the 30A breaker with two 15's or 20s, depending on
the wiring and what's on them. I'd like her to have some idea before she
has an electrician come out.

Also, for me - I used a voltage tester when looking around - it was the
kind that chirps and lights up when it's near wiring that has power. It
also chirps and lights up if you stick one end into an outlet.

However I found that there could also be transient chirps if I moved it
quickly past a piece of metal and when I was close to wiring rather than
very close to it. In one case, this made it difficult to tell which
outlet or switch had the power. Was I using it correctly?

Americans make things so complicated. In the UK, we have all our outlets (or half of them, on two circuits) on a 30A breaker. Each appliance has a fuse in the plug, dependant on what that appliance is.

--
Before you set out on a journey, ring your local radio station and say there's a terrible congestion on your road. Everybody avoids it and it's clear for you! -- Jack Dee

On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 6:05:09 PM UTC-5, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 20:43:06 -0000, Charles Bishop wrote:

Howdy,

Sis had me look at an electrical problem she had - it turned out to be a
loose wire. However, when I was poking around, I discovered a couple of
odd things and need to know what to tell her what to do.

There are two circuits I discovered that appear to have 120V outlets and
switches on a 30A breaker. I didn't know enough to tell her whether this
was allowed or not - I really suspect not but wanted to ask here first.
My first thought was if there was a problem with, say a drill motor on
this circuit, any problem with it wouldn't be enough to trip the breaker.

This most likely resulted from the previous owner hiring incompetent
workers and they did poor work, just to get electrical power to the
shed. I found a power cord used as electrical cable so they didn't have
to break into the wall - it ran from an (E) outlet (connected by
stripping the wires and connected to the screws on the outlet) along the
wall to a multiplug on its end so that power could be had at the other
side of the shed. I removed this of course. So, poor work in other
places wouldn't surprise me.

Then, what should she do? I thought getting the circuits tracked down
and then replacing the 30A breaker with two 15's or 20s, depending on
the wiring and what's on them. I'd like her to have some idea before she
has an electrician come out.

Also, for me - I used a voltage tester when looking around - it was the
kind that chirps and lights up when it's near wiring that has power. It
also chirps and lights up if you stick one end into an outlet.

However I found that there could also be transient chirps if I moved it
quickly past a piece of metal and when I was close to wiring rather than
very close to it. In one case, this made it difficult to tell which
outlet or switch had the power. Was I using it correctly?

Americans make things so complicated. In the UK, we have all our outlets (or half of them, on two circuits) on a 30A breaker. Each appliance has a fuse in the plug, dependant on what that appliance is.


As pointed out previously, it took all the Queens horses and all the
King's men a week to find the fault in Buckingham palace when one
tea pot shorted out. Must be swell screwing around in the dark too,
when all the lights go out because they are on one breaker. Why
are you so backwards and cheap over there?

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:14:14 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 6:05:09 PM UTC-5, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 20:43:06 -0000, Charles Bishop wrote:

Howdy,

Sis had me look at an electrical problem she had - it turned out to be a
loose wire. However, when I was poking around, I discovered a couple of
odd things and need to know what to tell her what to do.

There are two circuits I discovered that appear to have 120V outlets and
switches on a 30A breaker. I didn't know enough to tell her whether this
was allowed or not - I really suspect not but wanted to ask here first.
My first thought was if there was a problem with, say a drill motor on
this circuit, any problem with it wouldn't be enough to trip the breaker.

This most likely resulted from the previous owner hiring incompetent
workers and they did poor work, just to get electrical power to the
shed. I found a power cord used as electrical cable so they didn't have
to break into the wall - it ran from an (E) outlet (connected by
stripping the wires and connected to the screws on the outlet) along the
wall to a multiplug on its end so that power could be had at the other
side of the shed. I removed this of course. So, poor work in other
places wouldn't surprise me.

Then, what should she do? I thought getting the circuits tracked down
and then replacing the 30A breaker with two 15's or 20s, depending on
the wiring and what's on them. I'd like her to have some idea before she
has an electrician come out.

Also, for me - I used a voltage tester when looking around - it was the
kind that chirps and lights up when it's near wiring that has power. It
also chirps and lights up if you stick one end into an outlet.

However I found that there could also be transient chirps if I moved it
quickly past a piece of metal and when I was close to wiring rather than
very close to it. In one case, this made it difficult to tell which
outlet or switch had the power. Was I using it correctly?

Americans make things so complicated. In the UK, we have all our outlets (or half of them, on two circuits) on a 30A breaker. Each appliance has a fuse in the plug, dependant on what that appliance is.


As pointed out previously, it took all the Queens horses and all the
King's men a week to find the fault in Buckingham palace when one
tea pot shorted out. Must be swell screwing around in the dark too,
when all the lights go out because they are on one breaker. Why
are you so backwards and cheap over there?

Doesn't happen, as we have a fuse in every plug, rated lower than the main one. If my kettle shorts out, the fuse in the plug blows and everything else keeps on going.

--
Das Computer Maschine Ist Nich Fur Gefingerenpoken Und Mittengrabben!
Ist Easy Schnappen Der Springenwerken Mit Spitzensparken Und Poppenkorken!
Das Rubbernecken Sightseeren Mus Keep Der Handz In Der Pockets, Relax Und Vatch Die Blinkenlights!!

This may be of interest:

http://tinyurl.com/zr6mtrm

Jeff

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:14:14 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 6:05:09 PM UTC-5, James Wilkinson Sword
wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 20:43:06 -0000, Charles Bishop
wrote:

Howdy,

Sis had me look at an electrical problem she had - it turned out to
be a
loose wire. However, when I was poking around, I discovered a
couple of
odd things and need to know what to tell her what to do.

There are two circuits I discovered that appear to have 120V
outlets and
switches on a 30A breaker. I didn't know enough to tell her whether
this
was allowed or not - I really suspect not but wanted to ask here
first.
My first thought was if there was a problem with, say a drill motor on
this circuit, any problem with it wouldn't be enough to trip the
breaker.

This most likely resulted from the previous owner hiring incompetent
workers and they did poor work, just to get electrical power to the
shed. I found a power cord used as electrical cable so they didn't
have
to break into the wall - it ran from an (E) outlet (connected by
stripping the wires and connected to the screws on the outlet)
along the
wall to a multiplug on its end so that power could be had at the other
side of the shed. I removed this of course. So, poor work in other
places wouldn't surprise me.

Then, what should she do? I thought getting the circuits tracked down
and then replacing the 30A breaker with two 15's or 20s, depending on
the wiring and what's on them. I'd like her to have some idea
before she
has an electrician come out.

Also, for me - I used a voltage tester when looking around - it was
the
kind that chirps and lights up when it's near wiring that has
power. It
also chirps and lights up if you stick one end into an outlet.

However I found that there could also be transient chirps if I
moved it
quickly past a piece of metal and when I was close to wiring rather
than
very close to it. In one case, this made it difficult to tell which
outlet or switch had the power. Was I using it correctly?

Americans make things so complicated. In the UK, we have all our
outlets (or half of them, on two circuits) on a 30A breaker. Each
appliance has a fuse in the plug, dependant on what that appliance is.


As pointed out previously, it took all the Queens horses and all the
King's men a week to find the fault in Buckingham palace when one
tea pot shorted out. Must be swell screwing around in the dark too,
when all the lights go out because they are on one breaker. Why
are you so backwards and cheap over there?

Doesn't happen, as we have a fuse in every plug, rated lower than the
main one. If my kettle shorts out, the fuse in the plug blows and
everything else keeps on going.

Looks like there are advantages to all sorts of frequencies, depending what you're doing with it.


On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 18:08:23 -0000, Jeff Wisnia wrote:

This may be of interest:

http://tinyurl.com/zr6mtrm

Jeff

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:14:14 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 6:05:09 PM UTC-5, James Wilkinson Sword
wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 20:43:06 -0000, Charles Bishop
wrote:

Howdy,

Sis had me look at an electrical problem she had - it turned out to
be a
loose wire. However, when I was poking around, I discovered a
couple of
odd things and need to know what to tell her what to do.

There are two circuits I discovered that appear to have 120V
outlets and
switches on a 30A breaker. I didn't know enough to tell her whether
this
was allowed or not - I really suspect not but wanted to ask here
first.
My first thought was if there was a problem with, say a drill motor on
this circuit, any problem with it wouldn't be enough to trip the
breaker.

This most likely resulted from the previous owner hiring incompetent
workers and they did poor work, just to get electrical power to the
shed. I found a power cord used as electrical cable so they didn't
have
to break into the wall - it ran from an (E) outlet (connected by
stripping the wires and connected to the screws on the outlet)
along the
wall to a multiplug on its end so that power could be had at the other
side of the shed. I removed this of course. So, poor work in other
places wouldn't surprise me.

Then, what should she do? I thought getting the circuits tracked down
and then replacing the 30A breaker with two 15's or 20s, depending on
the wiring and what's on them. I'd like her to have some idea
before she
has an electrician come out.

Also, for me - I used a voltage tester when looking around - it was
the
kind that chirps and lights up when it's near wiring that has
power. It
also chirps and lights up if you stick one end into an outlet.

However I found that there could also be transient chirps if I
moved it
quickly past a piece of metal and when I was close to wiring rather
than
very close to it. In one case, this made it difficult to tell which
outlet or switch had the power. Was I using it correctly?

Americans make things so complicated. In the UK, we have all our
outlets (or half of them, on two circuits) on a 30A breaker. Each
appliance has a fuse in the plug, dependant on what that appliance is.


As pointed out previously, it took all the Queens horses and all the
King's men a week to find the fault in Buckingham palace when one
tea pot shorted out. Must be swell screwing around in the dark too,
when all the lights go out because they are on one breaker. Why
are you so backwards and cheap over there?

Doesn't happen, as we have a fuse in every plug, rated lower than the
main one. If my kettle shorts out, the fuse in the plug blows and
everything else keeps on going.




--
"Dear Santa, this year please send clothes for all those poor ladies in Daddy's computer, Amen."

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:04:52 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 20:43:06 -0000, Charles Bishop wrote:

Howdy,

Sis had me look at an electrical problem she had - it turned out to be a
loose wire. However, when I was poking around, I discovered a couple of
odd things and need to know what to tell her what to do.

There are two circuits I discovered that appear to have 120V outlets and
switches on a 30A breaker. I didn't know enough to tell her whether this
was allowed or not - I really suspect not but wanted to ask here first.
My first thought was if there was a problem with, say a drill motor on
this circuit, any problem with it wouldn't be enough to trip the breaker.

This most likely resulted from the previous owner hiring incompetent
workers and they did poor work, just to get electrical power to the
shed. I found a power cord used as electrical cable so they didn't have
to break into the wall - it ran from an (E) outlet (connected by
stripping the wires and connected to the screws on the outlet) along the
wall to a multiplug on its end so that power could be had at the other
side of the shed. I removed this of course. So, poor work in other
places wouldn't surprise me.

Then, what should she do? I thought getting the circuits tracked down
and then replacing the 30A breaker with two 15's or 20s, depending on
the wiring and what's on them. I'd like her to have some idea before she
has an electrician come out.

Also, for me - I used a voltage tester when looking around - it was the
kind that chirps and lights up when it's near wiring that has power. It
also chirps and lights up if you stick one end into an outlet.

However I found that there could also be transient chirps if I moved it
quickly past a piece of metal and when I was close to wiring rather than
very close to it. In one case, this made it difficult to tell which
outlet or switch had the power. Was I using it correctly?

Americans make things so complicated. In the UK, we have all our outlets (or half of them, on two circuits) on a 30A breaker. Each appliance has a fuse in the plug, dependant on what that appliance is.

I bet you don't have 4.8 KVA homes as the defacto standard with some
double that. We also have more required circuits. (2 in the kitchen,
one in the laundry and one in the bathroom as a minimum plus the
general lighting and appliance circuits.
What is your typical main breaker?

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:19:50 -0000, wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:04:52 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 20:43:06 -0000, Charles Bishop wrote:

Howdy,

Sis had me look at an electrical problem she had - it turned out to be a
loose wire. However, when I was poking around, I discovered a couple of
odd things and need to know what to tell her what to do.

There are two circuits I discovered that appear to have 120V outlets and
switches on a 30A breaker. I didn't know enough to tell her whether this
was allowed or not - I really suspect not but wanted to ask here first.
My first thought was if there was a problem with, say a drill motor on
this circuit, any problem with it wouldn't be enough to trip the breaker.

This most likely resulted from the previous owner hiring incompetent
workers and they did poor work, just to get electrical power to the
shed. I found a power cord used as electrical cable so they didn't have
to break into the wall - it ran from an (E) outlet (connected by
stripping the wires and connected to the screws on the outlet) along the
wall to a multiplug on its end so that power could be had at the other
side of the shed. I removed this of course. So, poor work in other
places wouldn't surprise me.

Then, what should she do? I thought getting the circuits tracked down
and then replacing the 30A breaker with two 15's or 20s, depending on
the wiring and what's on them. I'd like her to have some idea before she
has an electrician come out.

Also, for me - I used a voltage tester when looking around - it was the
kind that chirps and lights up when it's near wiring that has power. It
also chirps and lights up if you stick one end into an outlet.

However I found that there could also be transient chirps if I moved it
quickly past a piece of metal and when I was close to wiring rather than
very close to it. In one case, this made it difficult to tell which
outlet or switch had the power. Was I using it correctly?

Americans make things so complicated. In the UK, we have all our outlets (or half of them, on two circuits) on a 30A breaker. Each appliance has a fuse in the plug, dependant on what that appliance is.

I bet you don't have 4.8 KVA homes as the defacto standard with some
double that. We also have more required circuits. (2 in the kitchen,
one in the laundry and one in the bathroom as a minimum plus the
general lighting and appliance circuits.

No need for so many circuits. We typically have one (or two in larger homes) 30A 240V circuit(s) for outlets, one 30A 240V circuit for the cooker, one 15A 240V circuit for the water heater, and two 5A 240V circuits for lighting.

What is your typical main breaker?

100A = 24KVA. You really run your whole home on just 4.8KVA?! I can exceed that by a factor of 2.5 with my cooker alone. The shower another factor of 2 over that.

--
It hurt the way your tongue hurts after you accidentally staple it to the wall.

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:51:09 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:19:50 -0000, wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:04:52 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 20:43:06 -0000, Charles Bishop wrote:

Howdy,

Sis had me look at an electrical problem she had - it turned out to be a
loose wire. However, when I was poking around, I discovered a couple of
odd things and need to know what to tell her what to do.

There are two circuits I discovered that appear to have 120V outlets and
switches on a 30A breaker. I didn't know enough to tell her whether this
was allowed or not - I really suspect not but wanted to ask here first.
My first thought was if there was a problem with, say a drill motor on
this circuit, any problem with it wouldn't be enough to trip the breaker.

This most likely resulted from the previous owner hiring incompetent
workers and they did poor work, just to get electrical power to the
shed. I found a power cord used as electrical cable so they didn't have
to break into the wall - it ran from an (E) outlet (connected by
stripping the wires and connected to the screws on the outlet) along the
wall to a multiplug on its end so that power could be had at the other
side of the shed. I removed this of course. So, poor work in other
places wouldn't surprise me.

Then, what should she do? I thought getting the circuits tracked down
and then replacing the 30A breaker with two 15's or 20s, depending on
the wiring and what's on them. I'd like her to have some idea before she
has an electrician come out.

Also, for me - I used a voltage tester when looking around - it was the
kind that chirps and lights up when it's near wiring that has power. It
also chirps and lights up if you stick one end into an outlet.

However I found that there could also be transient chirps if I moved it
quickly past a piece of metal and when I was close to wiring rather than
very close to it. In one case, this made it difficult to tell which
outlet or switch had the power. Was I using it correctly?

Americans make things so complicated. In the UK, we have all our outlets (or half of them, on two circuits) on a 30A breaker. Each appliance has a fuse in the plug, dependant on what that appliance is.

I bet you don't have 4.8 KVA homes as the defacto standard with some
double that. We also have more required circuits. (2 in the kitchen,
one in the laundry and one in the bathroom as a minimum plus the
general lighting and appliance circuits.

No need for so many circuits. We typically have one (or two in larger homes) 30A 240V circuit(s) for outlets, one 30A 240V circuit for the cooker, one 15A 240V circuit for the water heater, and two 5A 240V circuits for lighting.

You folks just do not have as many electrical appliances I guess. To
start with I doubt air conditioning is that prevalent. In most of the
US it is standard equipment. Our "cookers" (ranges) are typically 40a
or maybe 50a. If you can't get natural gas, you will have electric
water heaters and maybe even electric heat. Add a swimming pool,
electric dryer, spa and perhaps a shop, then the loads add up fast.



What is your typical main breaker?

100A = 24KVA. You really run your whole home on just 4.8KVA?! I can exceed that by a factor of 2.5 with my cooker alone. The shower another factor of 2 over that.

Sorry I dropped a decimal place 48KVA.
24KVA is the minimum service you can have for anything, most are 48KVA
(200a) and a large home will have 400a (96KVA)

In US terms we would call your ring circuit a feeder and the branch
circuit is the cord beyond the plug. (last overcurrent device in the
circuit)

On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 7:35:29 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:51:09 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:19:50 -0000, wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:04:52 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 20:43:06 -0000, Charles Bishop wrote:

Howdy,

Sis had me look at an electrical problem she had - it turned out to be a
loose wire. However, when I was poking around, I discovered a couple of
odd things and need to know what to tell her what to do.

There are two circuits I discovered that appear to have 120V outlets and
switches on a 30A breaker. I didn't know enough to tell her whether this
was allowed or not - I really suspect not but wanted to ask here first.
My first thought was if there was a problem with, say a drill motor on
this circuit, any problem with it wouldn't be enough to trip the breaker.

This most likely resulted from the previous owner hiring incompetent
workers and they did poor work, just to get electrical power to the
shed. I found a power cord used as electrical cable so they didn't have
to break into the wall - it ran from an (E) outlet (connected by
stripping the wires and connected to the screws on the outlet) along the
wall to a multiplug on its end so that power could be had at the other
side of the shed. I removed this of course. So, poor work in other
places wouldn't surprise me.

Then, what should she do? I thought getting the circuits tracked down
and then replacing the 30A breaker with two 15's or 20s, depending on
the wiring and what's on them. I'd like her to have some idea before she
has an electrician come out.

Also, for me - I used a voltage tester when looking around - it was the
kind that chirps and lights up when it's near wiring that has power. It
also chirps and lights up if you stick one end into an outlet.

However I found that there could also be transient chirps if I moved it
quickly past a piece of metal and when I was close to wiring rather than
very close to it. In one case, this made it difficult to tell which
outlet or switch had the power. Was I using it correctly?

Americans make things so complicated. In the UK, we have all our outlets (or half of them, on two circuits) on a 30A breaker. Each appliance has a fuse in the plug, dependant on what that appliance is.

I bet you don't have 4.8 KVA homes as the defacto standard with some
double that. We also have more required circuits. (2 in the kitchen,
one in the laundry and one in the bathroom as a minimum plus the
general lighting and appliance circuits.

No need for so many circuits. We typically have one (or two in larger homes) 30A 240V circuit(s) for outlets, one 30A 240V circuit for the cooker, one 15A 240V circuit for the water heater, and two 5A 240V circuits for lighting.

You folks just do not have as many electrical appliances I guess. To
start with I doubt air conditioning is that prevalent. In most of the
US it is standard equipment. Our "cookers" (ranges) are typically 40a
or maybe 50a. If you can't get natural gas, you will have electric
water heaters and maybe even electric heat. Add a swimming pool,
electric dryer, spa and perhaps a shop, then the loads add up fast.



What is your typical main breaker?

100A = 24KVA. You really run your whole home on just 4.8KVA?! I can exceed that by a factor of 2.5 with my cooker alone. The shower another factor of 2 over that.

Sorry I dropped a decimal place 48KVA.
24KVA is the minimum service you can have for anything, most are 48KVA
(200a) and a large home will have 400a (96KVA)

In US terms we would call your ring circuit a feeder and the branch
circuit is the cord beyond the plug. (last overcurrent device in the
circuit)

Would you guess it's less expensive to wire a home in the UK since they're using smaller wire(less copper) to get the same wattage at twice the voltage. I find it interesting that their transformers must be heavier because of the lower frequency of their power systems. Which make me wonder why Europe settled on a 50hz standard? Off I go to do some research. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Shocked Monster

On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 8:35:29 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:51:09 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:19:50 -0000, wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:04:52 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 20:43:06 -0000, Charles Bishop wrote:

Howdy,

Sis had me look at an electrical problem she had - it turned out to be a
loose wire. However, when I was poking around, I discovered a couple of
odd things and need to know what to tell her what to do.

There are two circuits I discovered that appear to have 120V outlets and
switches on a 30A breaker. I didn't know enough to tell her whether this
was allowed or not - I really suspect not but wanted to ask here first.
My first thought was if there was a problem with, say a drill motor on
this circuit, any problem with it wouldn't be enough to trip the breaker.

This most likely resulted from the previous owner hiring incompetent
workers and they did poor work, just to get electrical power to the
shed. I found a power cord used as electrical cable so they didn't have
to break into the wall - it ran from an (E) outlet (connected by
stripping the wires and connected to the screws on the outlet) along the
wall to a multiplug on its end so that power could be had at the other
side of the shed. I removed this of course. So, poor work in other
places wouldn't surprise me.

Then, what should she do? I thought getting the circuits tracked down
and then replacing the 30A breaker with two 15's or 20s, depending on
the wiring and what's on them. I'd like her to have some idea before she
has an electrician come out.

Also, for me - I used a voltage tester when looking around - it was the
kind that chirps and lights up when it's near wiring that has power. It
also chirps and lights up if you stick one end into an outlet.

However I found that there could also be transient chirps if I moved it
quickly past a piece of metal and when I was close to wiring rather than
very close to it. In one case, this made it difficult to tell which
outlet or switch had the power. Was I using it correctly?

Americans make things so complicated. In the UK, we have all our outlets (or half of them, on two circuits) on a 30A breaker. Each appliance has a fuse in the plug, dependant on what that appliance is.

I bet you don't have 4.8 KVA homes as the defacto standard with some
double that. We also have more required circuits. (2 in the kitchen,
one in the laundry and one in the bathroom as a minimum plus the
general lighting and appliance circuits.

No need for so many circuits. We typically have one (or two in larger homes) 30A 240V circuit(s) for outlets, one 30A 240V circuit for the cooker, one 15A 240V circuit for the water heater, and two 5A 240V circuits for lighting.

You folks just do not have as many electrical appliances I guess. To
start with I doubt air conditioning is that prevalent. In most of the
US it is standard equipment. Our "cookers" (ranges) are typically 40a
or maybe 50a. If you can't get natural gas, you will have electric
water heaters and maybe even electric heat. Add a swimming pool,
electric dryer, spa and perhaps a shop, then the loads add up fast.


My double electric oven is 40A, IDK what the electric cooktop
is, but probably 30A? AC breaker is 50A, probably only pulls
half that when it up and running. Hot tub is on a 40A.
Electric dryer is 30A.





What is your typical main breaker?

100A = 24KVA. You really run your whole home on just 4.8KVA?! I can exceed that by a factor of 2.5 with my cooker alone. The shower another factor of 2 over that.

Sorry I dropped a decimal place 48KVA.
24KVA is the minimum service you can have for anything, most are 48KVA
(200a) and a large home will have 400a (96KVA)


Like you say, mine is 48KVA, I have friends who have larger homes
with 72KVA.

On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 01:34:57 -0000, wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:51:09 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:19:50 -0000, wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:04:52 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 20:43:06 -0000, Charles Bishop wrote:

Howdy,

Sis had me look at an electrical problem she had - it turned out to be a
loose wire. However, when I was poking around, I discovered a couple of
odd things and need to know what to tell her what to do.

There are two circuits I discovered that appear to have 120V outlets and
switches on a 30A breaker. I didn't know enough to tell her whether this
was allowed or not - I really suspect not but wanted to ask here first.
My first thought was if there was a problem with, say a drill motor on
this circuit, any problem with it wouldn't be enough to trip the breaker.

This most likely resulted from the previous owner hiring incompetent
workers and they did poor work, just to get electrical power to the
shed. I found a power cord used as electrical cable so they didn't have
to break into the wall - it ran from an (E) outlet (connected by
stripping the wires and connected to the screws on the outlet) along the
wall to a multiplug on its end so that power could be had at the other
side of the shed. I removed this of course. So, poor work in other
places wouldn't surprise me.

Then, what should she do? I thought getting the circuits tracked down
and then replacing the 30A breaker with two 15's or 20s, depending on
the wiring and what's on them. I'd like her to have some idea before she
has an electrician come out.

Also, for me - I used a voltage tester when looking around - it was the
kind that chirps and lights up when it's near wiring that has power. It
also chirps and lights up if you stick one end into an outlet.

However I found that there could also be transient chirps if I moved it
quickly past a piece of metal and when I was close to wiring rather than
very close to it. In one case, this made it difficult to tell which
outlet or switch had the power. Was I using it correctly?

Americans make things so complicated. In the UK, we have all our outlets (or half of them, on two circuits) on a 30A breaker. Each appliance has a fuse in the plug, dependant on what that appliance is.

I bet you don't have 4.8 KVA homes as the defacto standard with some
double that. We also have more required circuits. (2 in the kitchen,
one in the laundry and one in the bathroom as a minimum plus the
general lighting and appliance circuits.

No need for so many circuits. We typically have one (or two in larger homes) 30A 240V circuit(s) for outlets, one 30A 240V circuit for the cooker, one 15A 240V circuit for the water heater, and two 5A 240V circuits for lighting.

You folks just do not have as many electrical appliances I guess. To
start with I doubt air conditioning is that prevalent. In most of the
US it is standard equipment.

That only uses about a kW?

Our "cookers" (ranges) are typically 40a
or maybe 50a.

At 240V presumably. Not much higher than our 30A. And there are a fair number with double width cookers (two ovens, six hobs).

If you can't get natural gas, you will have electric
water heaters

We do too. Gas isn't everywhere.

and maybe even electric heat.

Same here.

Add a swimming pool,
electric dryer, spa and perhaps a shop, then the loads add up fast.

Some have those aswell.

What is your typical main breaker?

100A = 24KVA. You really run your whole home on just 4.8KVA?! I can exceed that by a factor of 2.5 with my cooker alone. The shower another factor of 2 over that.

Sorry I dropped a decimal place 48KVA.
24KVA is the minimum service you can have for anything, most are 48KVA
(200a) and a large home will have 400a (96KVA)

I see. Although I can ask for more if I want it. I believe I can even get three phase.

In US terms we would call your ring circuit a feeder and the branch
circuit is the cord beyond the plug. (last overcurrent device in the
circuit)

--
A drunk was in front of a judge. The judge says, "You've been brought here for drinking."
The drunk says, "Okay, let's get started."

On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 01:34:57 -0000, wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:51:09 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:19:50 -0000, wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:04:52 -0000, "James Wilkinson Sword"
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 20:43:06 -0000, Charles Bishop wrote:

Howdy,

Sis had me look at an electrical problem she had - it turned out to be a
loose wire. However, when I was poking around, I discovered a couple of
odd things and need to know what to tell her what to do.

There are two circuits I discovered that appear to have 120V outlets and
switches on a 30A breaker. I didn't know enough to tell her whether this
was allowed or not - I really suspect not but wanted to ask here first.
My first thought was if there was a problem with, say a drill motor on
this circuit, any problem with it wouldn't be enough to trip the breaker.

This most likely resulted from the previous owner hiring incompetent
workers and they did poor work, just to get electrical power to the
shed. I found a power cord used as electrical cable so they didn't have
to break into the wall - it ran from an (E) outlet (connected by
stripping the wires and connected to the screws on the outlet) along the
wall to a multiplug on its end so that power could be had at the other
side of the shed. I removed this of course. So, poor work in other
places wouldn't surprise me.

Then, what should she do? I thought getting the circuits tracked down
and then replacing the 30A breaker with two 15's or 20s, depending on
the wiring and what's on them. I'd like her to have some idea before she
has an electrician come out.

Also, for me - I used a voltage tester when looking around - it was the
kind that chirps and lights up when it's near wiring that has power. It
also chirps and lights up if you stick one end into an outlet.

However I found that there could also be transient chirps if I moved it
quickly past a piece of metal and when I was close to wiring rather than
very close to it. In one case, this made it difficult to tell which
outlet or switch had the power. Was I using it correctly?

Americans make things so complicated. In the UK, we have all our outlets (or half of them, on two circuits) on a 30A breaker. Each appliance has a fuse in the plug, dependant on what that appliance is.

I bet you don't have 4.8 KVA homes as the defacto standard with some
double that. We also have more required circuits. (2 in the kitchen,
one in the laundry and one in the bathroom as a minimum plus the
general lighting and appliance circuits.

No need for so many circuits. We typically have one (or two in larger homes) 30A 240V circuit(s) for outlets, one 30A 240V circuit for the cooker, one 15A 240V circuit for the water heater, and two 5A 240V circuits for lighting.

You folks just do not have as many electrical appliances I guess. To
start with I doubt air conditioning is that prevalent. In most of the
US it is standard equipment.

That only uses about a kW?

Our "cookers" (ranges) are typically 40a
or maybe 50a.

At 240V presumably. Not much higher than our 30A. And there are a fair number with double width cookers (two ovens, six hobs).

If you can't get natural gas, you will have electric
water heaters

We do too. Gas isn't everywhere.

and maybe even electric heat.

Same here.

Add a swimming pool,
electric dryer, spa and perhaps a shop, then the loads add up fast.

Some have those aswell.

What is your typical main breaker?

100A = 24KVA. You really run your whole home on just 4.8KVA?! I can exceed that by a factor of 2.5 with my cooker alone. The shower another factor of 2 over that.

Sorry I dropped a decimal place 48KVA.
24KVA is the minimum service you can have for anything, most are 48KVA
(200a) and a large home will have 400a (96KVA)

I see. Although I can ask for more if I want it. I believe I can even get three phase.

In US terms we would call your ring circuit a feeder and the branch
circuit is the cord beyond the plug. (last overcurrent device in the
circuit)

--
A drunk was in front of a judge. The judge says, "You've been brought here for drinking."
The drunk says, "Okay, let's get started."

The wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 23:04:52 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson"),
the pathological attention whore of all the uk ngs, blathered again:

Americans make things so complicated. In the UK, we have all our outlets
(or half of them, on two circuits) on a 30A breaker. Each appliance has
a fuse in the plug, dependant on what that appliance is.
The fuse in your "brain" blew obviously a long time ago, Birdbrain!
--
More from Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL) strange sociopathic
world:
"My head feels like it's stuffed with cotton wool. Sleep, chocolate, and
alcohol help for a short while."
MID:

Mr Peeler, you obviously have a hard on for James Wilkinson's sword. You two need to get together and do whatever you need to do for this bull**** exchange you're having to end. Your infatuation with his sword needs to end. You obviously don't perceive how annoying it is to read your repressed love rants for him. Is this your first homosexual infatuation?

Get over it.

On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 3:43:11 PM UTC-5, Charles Bishop wrote:
Howdy,

Sis had me look at an electrical problem she had - it turned out to be a
loose wire. However, when I was poking around, I discovered a couple of
odd things and need to know what to tell her what to do.

There are two circuits I discovered that appear to have 120V outlets and
switches on a 30A breaker. I didn't know enough to tell her whether this
was allowed or not - I really suspect not but wanted to ask here first.
My first thought was if there was a problem with, say a drill motor on
this circuit, any problem with it wouldn't be enough to trip the breaker.

This most likely resulted from the previous owner hiring incompetent
workers and they did poor work, just to get electrical power to the
shed. I found a power cord used as electrical cable so they didn't have
to break into the wall - it ran from an (E) outlet (connected by
stripping the wires and connected to the screws on the outlet) along the
wall to a multiplug on its end so that power could be had at the other
side of the shed. I removed this of course. So, poor work in other
places wouldn't surprise me.

Then, what should she do? I thought getting the circuits tracked down
and then replacing the 30A breaker with two 15's or 20s, depending on
the wiring and what's on them. I'd like her to have some idea before she
has an electrician come out.

Also, for me - I used a voltage tester when looking around - it was the
kind that chirps and lights up when it's near wiring that has power. It
also chirps and lights up if you stick one end into an outlet.

However I found that there could also be transient chirps if I moved it
quickly past a piece of metal and when I was close to wiring rather than
very close to it. In one case, this made it difficult to tell which
outlet or switch had the power. Was I using it correctly?

Charles

just for fun somone hangs a big picture and causes a short on a 30 amp circuit with 30 amp breaker.......

sounds like a excellent way to start a fire

On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 8:19:50 PM UTC-5, bob haller wrote:
On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 3:43:11 PM UTC-5, Charles Bishop wrote:
Howdy,

Sis had me look at an electrical problem she had - it turned out to be a
loose wire. However, when I was poking around, I discovered a couple of
odd things and need to know what to tell her what to do.

There are two circuits I discovered that appear to have 120V outlets and
switches on a 30A breaker. I didn't know enough to tell her whether this
was allowed or not - I really suspect not but wanted to ask here first.
My first thought was if there was a problem with, say a drill motor on
this circuit, any problem with it wouldn't be enough to trip the breaker.

This most likely resulted from the previous owner hiring incompetent
workers and they did poor work, just to get electrical power to the
shed. I found a power cord used as electrical cable so they didn't have
to break into the wall - it ran from an (E) outlet (connected by
stripping the wires and connected to the screws on the outlet) along the
wall to a multiplug on its end so that power could be had at the other
side of the shed. I removed this of course. So, poor work in other
places wouldn't surprise me.

Then, what should she do? I thought getting the circuits tracked down
and then replacing the 30A breaker with two 15's or 20s, depending on
the wiring and what's on them. I'd like her to have some idea before she
has an electrician come out.

Also, for me - I used a voltage tester when looking around - it was the
kind that chirps and lights up when it's near wiring that has power. It
also chirps and lights up if you stick one end into an outlet.

However I found that there could also be transient chirps if I moved it
quickly past a piece of metal and when I was close to wiring rather than
very close to it. In one case, this made it difficult to tell which
outlet or switch had the power. Was I using it correctly?

Charles

just for fun somone hangs a big picture and causes a short on a 30 amp circuit with 30 amp breaker.......

sounds like a excellent way to start a fire

IDK that it's much different than doing the same thing with a 20A
circuit. You'd get a bit more arc for milliseconds, but it doesn't
seem that much worse at 30A.

On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 10:14:05 AM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:


just for fun somone hangs a big picture and causes a short on a 30 amp circuit with 30 amp breaker.......

sounds like a excellent way to start a fire

IDK that it's much different than doing the same thing with a 20A
circuit. You'd get a bit more arc for milliseconds, but it doesn't
seem that much worse at 30A.


Forgot that it's also 220V, instead of 120V, so I guess the available
energy for arcing is 3X what it is here with a 120V, 20A circuit,
so I agree, you have a point. How much more likely that is to start
a fire in the milliseconds before the breaker trips, IDK. It would
depend on what's around to ignite.

On 01/30/2017 07:19 PM, bob haller wrote:

[snip]

just for fun somone hangs a big picture and causes a short on a 30 amp circuit with 30 amp breaker.......

sounds like a excellent way to start a fire


If you have one of those non-trip breakers.

On Mon, 30 Jan 2017 12:43:06 -0800, Charles Bishop
wrote:

Howdy,

Sis had me look at an electrical problem she had - it turned out to be a
loose wire. However, when I was poking around, I discovered a couple of
odd things and need to know what to tell her what to do.

There are two circuits I discovered that appear to have 120V outlets and
switches on a 30A breaker. I didn't know enough to tell her whether this
was allowed or not - I really suspect not but wanted to ask here first.
My first thought was if there was a problem with, say a drill motor on
this circuit, any problem with it wouldn't be enough to trip the breaker.

This most likely resulted from the previous owner hiring incompetent
workers and they did poor work, just to get electrical power to the
shed. I found a power cord used as electrical cable so they didn't have
to break into the wall - it ran from an (E) outlet (connected by
stripping the wires and connected to the screws on the outlet) along the
wall to a multiplug on its end so that power could be had at the other
side of the shed. I removed this of course. So, poor work in other
places wouldn't surprise me.

Then, what should she do? I thought getting the circuits tracked down
and then replacing the 30A breaker with two 15's or 20s, depending on
the wiring and what's on them. I'd like her to have some idea before she
has an electrician come out.

Also, for me - I used a voltage tester when looking around - it was the
kind that chirps and lights up when it's near wiring that has power. It
also chirps and lights up if you stick one end into an outlet.

However I found that there could also be transient chirps if I moved it
quickly past a piece of metal and when I was close to wiring rather than
very close to it. In one case, this made it difficult to tell which
outlet or switch had the power. Was I using it correctly?

Charles

Having any standard outlets on a 30A breaker is both dangerous and a
code violation. There should be two 15A or 20A (single) breakers. Wire
gauge determines if it should be 15A or 20A.
#12 wire is 20A
#14 wire is 15A

(15A breakers can be used on *either* wire gauge)

From what you said, I agree you need to have an electrician check out
that wiring. It sounds like there are other violations and dangers, and
they should be taken care of soon.

I like to advocate DIY repairs, but unless you're experienced with
wiring, call an expert. It's a lot cheaper to hire an electrician than
to replace a house and it's contents after a fire. (not to mention
possibly loss of life).

On 1/30/2017 12:43 PM, Charles Bishop wrote:
Howdy,

Sis and me were poking around an'.... it turned out to be a
loose wire. However, when I was poking her, I discovered a couple of
odd things and need to know what to tell her what to do.


WELCOME TO UTAH
THE FAMILY THAT PLAYS TOGETHER STAYS TOGETHER