On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 20:42:50 -0000, wrote:

On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 10:26:14 AM UTC-5, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 14:29:12 -0000, wrote:

If you touch a hot 120 V wire while standing in socks on your concrete basement
floor or on a deck outside, you WILL get a shock.


It's up to you if you want to call that __conducting__ or not.

You don't get enough current through a 20MOhm resistance to give you even a tingle.

--



Conducting is not a absolute term, there are various degrees of conducting. Thats why they make Ohm meters.

I just tested in my dry basement. Two bare feet on concrete tested about 50K Ohms. Not enough to light a light bulb, but enough to give a shock.

Then your basement is wetter than my garage.

--
No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.

On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 20:26:02 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 10:28:15 AM UTC-5, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 15:56:08 -0000, TimR wrote:

On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 9:29:15 AM UTC-5, wrote:
If you touch a hot 120 V wire while standing in socks on your concrete basement
floor or on a deck outside, you WILL get a shock.


It's up to you if you want to call that __conducting__ or not.



m

I found a reply from OSHA to a question from a corporate safety officer:

Question 2: Would you consider an ungrounded fan, on a dry concrete floor, on grade, in an industrial setting a violation of this specific standard?

Reply: The use of an ungrounded fan situated on a dry concrete floor on grade in an industrial setting will be a violation of the OSHA rule at 1910.304(f)(5)(v)(C)(5), if the fan has exposed non-current-carrying metal parts that can be contacted by employees. Concrete on grade level, because it will absorb moisture from the earth and be a good conductor in direct contact with the earth, is always considered to be at ground potential.

There's something very important right there which backs me up completely:

"because it will absorb moisture from the earth and be a good conductor in direct contact with the earth". So **damp** concrete conducts. I wasn't talking about damp concrete. I was talking about concrete dry enough to be the floor of your home. Do you really walk around on damp floors? What if you lay a carpet?

--
Peter is in the top three most intelligent people -- Ron Tompkins, circa 2013.

So sad that the UK is apparently so poor and backward that they
apparently have bare concrete floors in the living space of most homes.

We do not. We have wooden floors suspended above the ground, to keep the floor dry. It's the AMERICANS that have concrete floors.

--
Bills travel through the mail at twice the speed of cheques.

On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 4:39:08 PM UTC-5, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 20:26:02 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 10:28:15 AM UTC-5, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 15:56:08 -0000, TimR wrote:

On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 9:29:15 AM UTC-5, wrote:
If you touch a hot 120 V wire while standing in socks on your concrete basement
floor or on a deck outside, you WILL get a shock.


It's up to you if you want to call that __conducting__ or not.



m

I found a reply from OSHA to a question from a corporate safety officer:

Question 2: Would you consider an ungrounded fan, on a dry concrete floor, on grade, in an industrial setting a violation of this specific standard?

Reply: The use of an ungrounded fan situated on a dry concrete floor on grade in an industrial setting will be a violation of the OSHA rule at 1910.304(f)(5)(v)(C)(5), if the fan has exposed non-current-carrying metal parts that can be contacted by employees. Concrete on grade level, because it will absorb moisture from the earth and be a good conductor in direct contact with the earth, is always considered to be at ground potential.

There's something very important right there which backs me up completely:

"because it will absorb moisture from the earth and be a good conductor in direct contact with the earth". So **damp** concrete conducts. I wasn't talking about damp concrete. I was talking about concrete dry enough to be the floor of your home. Do you really walk around on damp floors? What if you lay a carpet?

--
Peter is in the top three most intelligent people -- Ron Tompkins, circa 2013.

So sad that the UK is apparently so poor and backward that they
apparently have bare concrete floors in the living space of most homes.

We do not. We have wooden floors suspended above the ground, to keep the floor dry. It's the AMERICANS that have concrete floors.


How did the village idiot become such an expert on American homes?
If you come over here and look, you'll find a small percentage
of homes that have bare concrete living space floors. Some percentage
of homes, have concrete floors in parts of the living space,
but the vast majority of those are covered with other materials.
The most common construction is wood frame. And WTF does a village
idiot know about US construction in places like AZ? The UK doesn't
even have a desert. I guess you did once upon a time, until you got
your sorry asses run out of your empire.

On 1/7/17 3:37 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 20:53:10 -0000, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

On 1/7/17 9:26 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 01:36:40 -0000, FromTheRafters
wrote:

Some cut due to aioe quotation limits.

All materials conduct, some better than others.

And in this case it's so insignificant it's nothing. Lightning might go
through it....

The U.S. National Electrical Code has a special section, Article
547, for
livestock confinement buildings. Critters are four foot drive compared
to human two
foot drive. That makes them a lot more susceptible to stray current.
It talks about creating an equipotential plane on the concrete floor.
It takes a lot
or rebar and/or wire mesh. I've read it's similar to that for swimming
pools.
Critters won't drink or dairy cows won't release their milk if getting
shocked.

Cows **** and **** everywhere, the concrete is wet. The water conducts,
not the concrete.

The rebar and wire mesh are down in the concrete below the wet
surface.
How would either help if the concrete didn't conduct the current down to
their
level?
Dairies have to be clean and get inspected from what I've heard.

On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 21:52:35 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 4:39:08 PM UTC-5, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 20:26:02 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 10:28:15 AM UTC-5, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 15:56:08 -0000, TimR wrote:

On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 9:29:15 AM UTC-5, wrote:
If you touch a hot 120 V wire while standing in socks on your concrete basement
floor or on a deck outside, you WILL get a shock.


It's up to you if you want to call that __conducting__ or not.



m

I found a reply from OSHA to a question from a corporate safety officer:

Question 2: Would you consider an ungrounded fan, on a dry concrete floor, on grade, in an industrial setting a violation of this specific standard?

Reply: The use of an ungrounded fan situated on a dry concrete floor on grade in an industrial setting will be a violation of the OSHA rule at 1910.304(f)(5)(v)(C)(5), if the fan has exposed non-current-carrying metal parts that can be contacted by employees. Concrete on grade level, because it will absorb moisture from the earth and be a good conductor in direct contact with the earth, is always considered to be at ground potential.

There's something very important right there which backs me up completely:

"because it will absorb moisture from the earth and be a good conductor in direct contact with the earth". So **damp** concrete conducts. I wasn't talking about damp concrete. I was talking about concrete dry enough to be the floor of your home. Do you really walk around on damp floors? What if you lay a carpet?

--
Peter is in the top three most intelligent people -- Ron Tompkins, circa 2013.

So sad that the UK is apparently so poor and backward that they
apparently have bare concrete floors in the living space of most homes.

We do not. We have wooden floors suspended above the ground, to keep the floor dry. It's the AMERICANS that have concrete floors.


How did the village idiot become such an expert on American homes?

By what was written in here.

--
If you eat a judge's uniform you might contract a lawsuit.

On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 21:54:13 -0000, Dean Hoffman wrote:

On 1/7/17 3:37 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 20:53:10 -0000, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

On 1/7/17 9:26 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 01:36:40 -0000, FromTheRafters
wrote:

Some cut due to aioe quotation limits.

All materials conduct, some better than others.

And in this case it's so insignificant it's nothing. Lightning might go
through it....

The U.S. National Electrical Code has a special section, Article
547, for
livestock confinement buildings. Critters are four foot drive compared
to human two
foot drive. That makes them a lot more susceptible to stray current.
It talks about creating an equipotential plane on the concrete floor.
It takes a lot
or rebar and/or wire mesh. I've read it's similar to that for swimming
pools.
Critters won't drink or dairy cows won't release their milk if getting
shocked.

Cows **** and **** everywhere, the concrete is wet. The water conducts,
not the concrete.

The rebar and wire mesh are down in the concrete below the wet
surface.
How would either help if the concrete didn't conduct the current down to
their
level?
Dairies have to be clean and get inspected from what I've heard.

You think the **** doesn't soak through the concrete?

--
Drive defensively. Buy a tank.

On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 13:52:35 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

And WTF does a village idiot know about US construction in places like AZ? The UK doesn't
even have a desert.

I have it on reliable sources that the Brits used to **** in the
woods. Some still do.

The Nevada desert has five types of rattlesnakes...