I've been asked to help install grab bars in an (E) tiled shower stall.
What is the best way to do this? Ordinarily I'd drill a hole through the
tile and whatever is behind it -mortar, greenwall, or backer board and
install the grab bar with toggle bolts.

I got to wondering though that if I drill a hole large enough for a
toggle bolt to go through, I might be weakening the wall enough that
holding onto the grab bar might pull some tiles loose, leading to
additional work.

Additionally, the house is an older one, having been built in late 50's
or 60's so it's likely there is a mortar bed - it looks to be the
original tile. If the mortar crumbles around the hole, the toggle bolt
will be pulling on the tile, maybe.

--
charles

On 11/24/2016 9:09 AM, Charles Bishop wrote:
I've been asked to help install grab bars in an (E) tiled shower stall.
What is the best way to do this? Ordinarily I'd drill a hole through the
tile and whatever is behind it -mortar, greenwall, or backer board and
install the grab bar with toggle bolts.

I got to wondering though that if I drill a hole large enough for a
toggle bolt to go through, I might be weakening the wall enough that
holding onto the grab bar might pull some tiles loose, leading to
additional work.

Additionally, the house is an older one, having been built in late 50's
or 60's so it's likely there is a mortar bed - it looks to be the
original tile. If the mortar crumbles around the hole, the toggle bolt
will be pulling on the tile, maybe.


Considering the construction, I'd try to avoid toggle bolts. Can you
find a stud? Long screws in the stud is perfect.

On 11/24/2016 9:50 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/24/2016 9:09 AM, Charles Bishop wrote:
I've been asked to help install grab bars in an (E) tiled shower stall.
What is the best way to do this? Ordinarily I'd drill a hole through the
tile and whatever is behind it -mortar, greenwall, or backer board and
install the grab bar with toggle bolts.

I got to wondering though that if I drill a hole large enough for a
toggle bolt to go through, I might be weakening the wall enough that
holding onto the grab bar might pull some tiles loose, leading to
additional work.

Additionally, the house is an older one, having been built in late 50's
or 60's so it's likely there is a mortar bed - it looks to be the
original tile. If the mortar crumbles around the hole, the toggle bolt
will be pulling on the tile, maybe.


Considering the construction, I'd try to avoid toggle bolts. Can you
find a stud? Long screws in the stud is perfect.

+1 When I remodeled our bath, I looked to the future and installed a
grab bar in the tub as the jetted tub I installed was deeper than the
norm. Placed it so that one end is into a stud and since I didn't like
the angle formed when attaching the other end to a stud, I inlet a
couple of studs to accept a 1x6 that was firmly screwed into said studs
and gave me all the mounting options I needed for the grab bar.

Since you're not, apparently, retiling, etc. I concur with Ed's
suggestion that you seek a stud and, all things considered, if you can
only anchor to one stud, make sure you use a stud on the upper end of
that bar. That's going to take the most stress. The lower one less so.

On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 10:50:19 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 11/24/2016 9:09 AM, Charles Bishop wrote:
I've been asked to help install grab bars in an (E) tiled shower stall.
What is the best way to do this? Ordinarily I'd drill a hole through the
tile and whatever is behind it -mortar, greenwall, or backer board and
install the grab bar with toggle bolts.

I got to wondering though that if I drill a hole large enough for a
toggle bolt to go through, I might be weakening the wall enough that
holding onto the grab bar might pull some tiles loose, leading to
additional work.

Additionally, the house is an older one, having been built in late 50's
or 60's so it's likely there is a mortar bed - it looks to be the
original tile. If the mortar crumbles around the hole, the toggle bolt
will be pulling on the tile, maybe.


Considering the construction, I'd try to avoid toggle bolts. Can you
find a stud? Long screws in the stud is perfect.

+1

If the tile doesn't go all the way up to the ceiling, find the studs
above the tile. Then use a string and a plumb-bob to assist finding
the studs behind the tile.

On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 08:42:52 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 10:50:19 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 11/24/2016 9:09 AM, Charles Bishop wrote:
I've been asked to help install grab bars in an (E) tiled shower stall.
What is the best way to do this? Ordinarily I'd drill a hole through the
tile and whatever is behind it -mortar, greenwall, or backer board and
install the grab bar with toggle bolts.

I got to wondering though that if I drill a hole large enough for a
toggle bolt to go through, I might be weakening the wall enough that
holding onto the grab bar might pull some tiles loose, leading to
additional work.

Additionally, the house is an older one, having been built in late 50's
or 60's so it's likely there is a mortar bed - it looks to be the
original tile. If the mortar crumbles around the hole, the toggle bolt
will be pulling on the tile, maybe.


Considering the construction, I'd try to avoid toggle bolts. Can you
find a stud? Long screws in the stud is perfect.

+1

If the tile doesn't go all the way up to the ceiling, find the studs
above the tile. Then use a string and a plumb-bob to assist finding
the studs behind the tile.
and if they do go to the top, what about the wall behind? Locate the
studs on the back of the wall and drill through the stud with a small
drill - and out through the tile to locate the first stud, then just
go 16" over for the next ione. Patch the 1/8" hole on the backside of
the wall.

On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 07:09:09 -0700, Charles Bishop wrote:

I've been asked to help install grab bars in an (E) tiled shower stall.
What is the best way to do this? Ordinarily I'd drill a hole through the
tile and whatever is behind it -mortar, greenwall, or backer board and
install the grab bar with toggle bolts.

I got to wondering though that if I drill a hole large enough for a
toggle bolt to go through, I might be weakening the wall enough that
holding onto the grab bar might pull some tiles loose, leading to
additional work.

Additionally, the house is an older one, having been built in late 50's
or 60's so it's likely there is a mortar bed - it looks to be the
original tile. If the mortar crumbles around the hole, the toggle bolt
will be pulling on the tile, maybe.

Is the wall constructed in such a fashion as to allow you to locate the studs? For example, is there drywall
or plaster above the tile? If so, do not use toggle bolts, drill small holes through the tile and use
stainless or some other protected screws to attach directly to the studs.

In ,
Stormin' Norman typed:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 07:09:09 -0700, Charles Bishop
wrote:

I've been asked to help install grab bars in an (E) tiled shower
stall. What is the best way to do this? Ordinarily I'd drill a hole
through the tile and whatever is behind it -mortar, greenwall, or
backer board and install the grab bar with toggle bolts.

I got to wondering though that if I drill a hole large enough for a
toggle bolt to go through, I might be weakening the wall enough that
holding onto the grab bar might pull some tiles loose, leading to
additional work.

Additionally, the house is an older one, having been built in late
50's or 60's so it's likely there is a mortar bed - it looks to be
the original tile. If the mortar crumbles around the hole, the
toggle bolt will be pulling on the tile, maybe.

Is the wall constructed in such a fashion as to allow you to locate
the studs? For example, is there drywall or plaster above the tile?
If so, do not use toggle bolts, drill small holes through the tile
and use stainless or some other protected screws to attach directly
to the studs.

I agree. I would look above the top of the tile wall to try to locate
studs.

Also, check out the many videos that are available at http://YouTube.com .
I went there and I did a search for "grab bars for shower" and I found
plenty of excellent videos.

One that I thought was interesting (although I don't know if I would use
that product) was:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKpXa4elASM

On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 10:39:51 AM UTC-6, TomR wrote:

Check out the many videos that are available at http://YouTube.com .
I went there and I did a search for "grab bars for shower" and I found
plenty of excellent videos.

One that I thought was interesting (although I don't know if I would use
that product) was:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKpXa4elASM


That was an interesting video but I agree with you Tom. I don't
know that I would use that product or not even though the guy
did hang from it once installed. He used a small block of wood
mounted behind drywall to anchor his screws. What's to keep that
drywall from giving away even though it does have that small
block of wood behind it?

On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 08:48:44 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 10:39:51 AM UTC-6, TomR wrote:

Check out the many videos that are available at http://YouTube.com .
I went there and I did a search for "grab bars for shower" and I found
plenty of excellent videos.

One that I thought was interesting (although I don't know if I would use
that product) was:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKpXa4elASM


That was an interesting video but I agree with you Tom. I don't
know that I would use that product or not even though the guy
did hang from it once installed. He used a small block of wood
mounted behind drywall to anchor his screws. What's to keep that
drywall from giving away even though it does have that small
block of wood behind it?

Agreed, go right into the studs, it is the safest and best approach.

In ,
typed:
On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 10:39:51 AM UTC-6, TomR wrote:

Check out the many videos that are available at http://YouTube.com .
I went there and I did a search for "grab bars for shower" and I
found plenty of excellent videos.

One that I thought was interesting (although I don't know if I would
use that product) was:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKpXa4elASM

That was an interesting video but I agree with you Tom. I don't
know that I would use that product or not even though the guy
did hang from it once installed. He used a small block of wood
mounted behind drywall to anchor his screws. What's to keep that
drywall from giving away even though it does have that small
block of wood behind it?

Yes, it didn't seem like a great idea to me. I have used a similar concept
when patching drywall (piece of wood behind a small drywall hole, held in
place with string until the patch is done).

But, for a strength item like a grab bar, it seems like it would be a large
enough piece behind the tile wall to make it worth using. And, if I were
going to that concept, and I really wanted a strong support "stud" behind
the hollow wall in a location where none existed, I would create one on my
own -- by opening up the wall above the top of the tile, dropping down a
longer and larger 2x4 piece (turned sideways), and screw the grab bar into
that at the right locations. Then, patch the wall above the top of the
tile.

In news TomR typed:
In ,
typed:
On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 10:39:51 AM UTC-6, TomR wrote:

Check out the many videos that are available at http://YouTube.com . I
went there and I did a search for "grab bars for shower" and I
found plenty of excellent videos.

One that I thought was interesting (although I don't know if I would
use that product) was:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKpXa4elASM

That was an interesting video but I agree with you Tom. I don't
know that I would use that product or not even though the guy
did hang from it once installed. He used a small block of wood
mounted behind drywall to anchor his screws. What's to keep that
drywall from giving away even though it does have that small
block of wood behind it?

Yes, it didn't seem like a great idea to me. I have used a similar
concept when patching drywall (piece of wood behind a small drywall
hole, held in place with string until the patch is done).

But, for a strength item like a grab bar, it seems like it would be a
large enough piece behind the tile wall to make it worth using. And,
if I were going to that concept, and I really wanted a strong support
"stud" behind the hollow wall in a location where none existed, I
would create one on my own -- by opening up the wall above the top of
the tile, dropping down a longer and larger 2x4 piece (turned
sideways), and screw the grab bar into that at the right locations. Then,
patch the wall above the top of the tile.

Oops, I meant to write, "...it seems like it would *NOT* be a large
enough piece...".

TomR wrote:
In ,
Stormin' Norman typed:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 07:09:09 -0700, Charles Bishop
wrote:

I've been asked to help install grab bars in an (E) tiled shower
stall. What is the best way to do this? Ordinarily I'd drill a hole
through the tile and whatever is behind it -mortar, greenwall, or
backer board and install the grab bar with toggle bolts.

I got to wondering though that if I drill a hole large enough for a
toggle bolt to go through, I might be weakening the wall enough that
holding onto the grab bar might pull some tiles loose, leading to
additional work.

Additionally, the house is an older one, having been built in late
50's or 60's so it's likely there is a mortar bed - it looks to be
the original tile. If the mortar crumbles around the hole, the
toggle bolt will be pulling on the tile, maybe.

Is the wall constructed in such a fashion as to allow you to locate
the studs? For example, is there drywall or plaster above the tile?
If so, do not use toggle bolts, drill small holes through the tile
and use stainless or some other protected screws to attach directly
to the studs.

I agree. I would look above the top of the tile wall to try to locate
studs.

Also, check out the many videos that are available at http://YouTube.com .
I went there and I did a search for "grab bars for shower" and I found
plenty of excellent videos.

One that I thought was interesting (although I don't know if I would use
that product) was:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKpXa4elASM

Here is another video using a Moen grab bar that does not require you to
fasten to a stud.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzwgnBckzsY

In news Arnie Goetchius typed:
TomR wrote:
In ,
Stormin' Norman typed:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 07:09:09 -0700, Charles Bishop
wrote:

I've been asked to help install grab bars in an (E) tiled shower
stall. What is the best way to do this? Ordinarily I'd drill a hole
through the tile and whatever is behind it -mortar, greenwall, or
backer board and install the grab bar with toggle bolts.

I got to wondering though that if I drill a hole large enough for a
toggle bolt to go through, I might be weakening the wall enough
that holding onto the grab bar might pull some tiles loose,
leading to additional work.

Additionally, the house is an older one, having been built in late
50's or 60's so it's likely there is a mortar bed - it looks to be
the original tile. If the mortar crumbles around the hole, the
toggle bolt will be pulling on the tile, maybe.

Also, check out the many videos that are available at
http://YouTube.com . I went there and I did a search for "grab bars
for shower" and I found plenty of excellent videos.

One that I thought was interesting (although I don't know if I would
use that product) was:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKpXa4elASM

Here is another video using a Moen grab bar that does not require you
to fasten to a stud.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzwgnBckzsY

Interesting YouTube video. Thanks. It seems to use a style of brace behind
the wall that is similar to the one that I had found in a different video.
However, this Moen video shows how they base their claim that the device is
strong enough to meet all applicable codes. So, maybe it does work.

On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 12:10:07 -0500, "TomR" wrote:

In news Arnie Goetchius typed:
TomR wrote:
In ,
Stormin' Norman typed:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 07:09:09 -0700, Charles Bishop
wrote:

I've been asked to help install grab bars in an (E) tiled shower
stall. What is the best way to do this? Ordinarily I'd drill a hole
through the tile and whatever is behind it -mortar, greenwall, or
backer board and install the grab bar with toggle bolts.

I got to wondering though that if I drill a hole large enough for a
toggle bolt to go through, I might be weakening the wall enough
that holding onto the grab bar might pull some tiles loose,
leading to additional work.

Additionally, the house is an older one, having been built in late
50's or 60's so it's likely there is a mortar bed - it looks to be
the original tile. If the mortar crumbles around the hole, the
toggle bolt will be pulling on the tile, maybe.

Also, check out the many videos that are available at
http://YouTube.com . I went there and I did a search for "grab bars
for shower" and I found plenty of excellent videos.

One that I thought was interesting (although I don't know if I would
use that product) was:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKpXa4elASM

Here is another video using a Moen grab bar that does not require you
to fasten to a stud.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzwgnBckzsY

Interesting YouTube video. Thanks. It seems to use a style of brace behind
the wall that is similar to the one that I had found in a different video.
However, this Moen video shows how they base their claim that the device is
strong enough to meet all applicable codes. So, maybe it does work.



Did you notice in the moen video how they only tested the vertical impact with a 50 lbs. weight dropped only
12 inches?

Arnie Goetchius posted for all of us...



TomR wrote:
In ,
Stormin' Norman typed:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 07:09:09 -0700, Charles Bishop
wrote:

I've been asked to help install grab bars in an (E) tiled shower
stall. What is the best way to do this? Ordinarily I'd drill a hole
through the tile and whatever is behind it -mortar, greenwall, or
backer board and install the grab bar with toggle bolts.

I got to wondering though that if I drill a hole large enough for a
toggle bolt to go through, I might be weakening the wall enough that
holding onto the grab bar might pull some tiles loose, leading to
additional work.

Additionally, the house is an older one, having been built in late
50's or 60's so it's likely there is a mortar bed - it looks to be
the original tile. If the mortar crumbles around the hole, the
toggle bolt will be pulling on the tile, maybe.

Is the wall constructed in such a fashion as to allow you to locate
the studs? For example, is there drywall or plaster above the tile?
If so, do not use toggle bolts, drill small holes through the tile
and use stainless or some other protected screws to attach directly
to the studs.

I agree. I would look above the top of the tile wall to try to locate
studs.

Also, check out the many videos that are available at http://YouTube.com .
I went there and I did a search for "grab bars for shower" and I found
plenty of excellent videos.

One that I thought was interesting (although I don't know if I would use
that product) was:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKpXa4elASM

Here is another video using a Moen grab bar that does not require you to
fasten to a stud.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzwgnBckzsY

These are the ones I have seen before but couldn't remember.

I recommend them.

--
Tekkie

On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 9:09:14 AM UTC-6, Charles Bishop wrote:
I've been asked to help install grab bars in an (E) tiled shower stall.
What is the best way to do this? Ordinarily I'd drill a hole through the
tile and whatever is behind it -mortar, greenwall, or backer board and
install the grab bar with toggle bolts.

I got to wondering though that if I drill a hole large enough for a
toggle bolt to go through, I might be weakening the wall enough that
holding onto the grab bar might pull some tiles loose, leading to
additional work.

Additionally, the house is an older one, having been built in late 50's
or 60's so it's likely there is a mortar bed - it looks to be the
original tile. If the mortar crumbles around the hole, the toggle bolt
will be pulling on the tile, maybe.
--
charles


When I had to attach something heavy to a wall in a commercial kitchen and I wasn't sure about what was behind it or I couldn't locate it where there were studs, I would visit my pal at a sheet metal shop and get one foot square stainless steel pieces that were at least 1/8" thick and drill multiple holes so I could install a lot of anchors in the wall surface. I would then attach the heavy item to the sheet metal. I've done the same thing with hand rails and grab bars. Spread the load. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Grabby Monster

On 11/24/2016 9:09 AM, Charles Bishop wrote:
I've been asked to help install grab bars in an (E) tiled shower stall.
What is the best way to do this? Ordinarily I'd drill a hole through the
tile and whatever is behind it -mortar, greenwall, or backer board and
install the grab bar with toggle bolts.

I got to wondering though that if I drill a hole large enough for a
toggle bolt to go through, I might be weakening the wall enough that
holding onto the grab bar might pull some tiles loose, leading to
additional work.

Additionally, the house is an older one, having been built in late 50's
or 60's so it's likely there is a mortar bed - it looks to be the
original tile. If the mortar crumbles around the hole, the toggle bolt
will be pulling on the tile, maybe.


I have a couple of those suction cup grab bars. You need large tiles
for them. Mentioned here a couple of months ago and others thought they
would not be sturdy but I have not seen a problem with them. I would
not put full weight on them but there are a lot of things I would not
put full weight on. My first shower was not done right as it was on
plain wall board and a cup might have pulled a tile off. Some builders
are chincy and do this.

On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 12:05:55 -0500, Frank "frank wrote:

On 11/24/2016 9:09 AM, Charles Bishop wrote:
I've been asked to help install grab bars in an (E) tiled shower stall.
What is the best way to do this? Ordinarily I'd drill a hole through the
tile and whatever is behind it -mortar, greenwall, or backer board and
install the grab bar with toggle bolts.

I got to wondering though that if I drill a hole large enough for a
toggle bolt to go through, I might be weakening the wall enough that
holding onto the grab bar might pull some tiles loose, leading to
additional work.

Additionally, the house is an older one, having been built in late 50's
or 60's so it's likely there is a mortar bed - it looks to be the
original tile. If the mortar crumbles around the hole, the toggle bolt
will be pulling on the tile, maybe.


I have a couple of those suction cup grab bars. You need large tiles
for them. Mentioned here a couple of months ago and others thought they
would not be sturdy but I have not seen a problem with them. I would
not put full weight on them but there are a lot of things I would not
put full weight on. My first shower was not done right as it was on
plain wall board and a cup might have pulled a tile off. Some builders
are chincy and do this.

Unfortunately, if we old folks lose our balance, we instinctively reach out for the grab bars. When we need
them most is when we are possibly exerting a great deal of force. I am over 6'7" and still weigh 262lbs, that
represents a lot of energy being transferred, in a short period of time, to the grab bars.

I have stainless bars in my large, walk-in, unenclosed shower and have really needed them three times. I was
quite grateful they were firmly attached. One time my wife said she felt the wall of the house shudder when I
slipped.

On 11/24/2016 12:21 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:

I have a couple of those suction cup grab bars. You need large tiles
for them. Mentioned here a couple of months ago and others thought they
would not be sturdy but I have not seen a problem with them. I would
not put full weight on them but there are a lot of things I would not
put full weight on. My first shower was not done right as it was on
plain wall board and a cup might have pulled a tile off. Some builders
are chincy and do this.

Unfortunately, if we old folks lose our balance, we instinctively reach out for the grab bars. When we need
them most is when we are possibly exerting a great deal of force. I am over 6'7" and still weigh 262lbs, that
represents a lot of energy being transferred, in a short period of time, to the grab bars.

I have stainless bars in my large, walk-in, unenclosed shower and have really needed them three times. I was
quite grateful they were firmly attached. One time my wife said she felt the wall of the house shudder when I
slipped.


Sure, a well secured bar is best, but something is better than nothing.
Most of the time you can avoid the need to put full weight by simply
holding the bar while entering or exiting the shower. I use the bar as
a device for balance, not keeping from hitting the ground. Pound in a
16d nail about a third of the way and bend it over and it will prevent
some falls just by holding the nail to steady yourself.

For a couple of years in my old fiberglass showers we used the suction
cop bars and they were a big help.

On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 7:51:05 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/24/2016 12:21 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:

I have a couple of those suction cup grab bars. You need large tiles
for them. Mentioned here a couple of months ago and others thought they
would not be sturdy but I have not seen a problem with them. I would
not put full weight on them but there are a lot of things I would not
put full weight on. My first shower was not done right as it was on
plain wall board and a cup might have pulled a tile off. Some builders
are chincy and do this.

Unfortunately, if we old folks lose our balance, we instinctively reach out for the grab bars. When we need
them most is when we are possibly exerting a great deal of force. I am over 6'7" and still weigh 262lbs, that
represents a lot of energy being transferred, in a short period of time, to the grab bars.

I have stainless bars in my large, walk-in, unenclosed shower and have really needed them three times. I was
quite grateful they were firmly attached. One time my wife said she felt the wall of the house shudder when I
slipped.


Sure, a well secured bar is best, but something is better than nothing.
Most of the time you can avoid the need to put full weight by simply
holding the bar while entering or exiting the shower. I use the bar as
a device for balance, not keeping from hitting the ground. Pound in a
16d nail about a third of the way and bend it over and it will prevent
some falls just by holding the nail to steady yourself.

Didn't we just go through this a few months ago?

"Most of the time you can avoid the need to put full weight..."

Sure, when you are intentionally trying to avoid putting full weight on it.

The problem comes when you reflexively need to put full weight on it and
your eyes/brain expect the bar to be secure. You don't even consider
another option because the bar is there. The bar with the suction cups.

No thanks. I'd rather do without.


For a couple of years in my old fiberglass showers we used the suction
cop bars and they were a big help.

On 11/24/2016 9:08 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 7:51:05 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/24/2016 12:21 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:

Sure, a well secured bar is best, but something is better than nothing.
Most of the time you can avoid the need to put full weight by simply
holding the bar while entering or exiting the shower. I use the bar as
a device for balance, not keeping from hitting the ground. Pound in a
16d nail about a third of the way and bend it over and it will prevent
some falls just by holding the nail to steady yourself.

Didn't we just go through this a few months ago?

"Most of the time you can avoid the need to put full weight..."

Sure, when you are intentionally trying to avoid putting full weight on it.

The problem comes when you reflexively need to put full weight on it and
your eyes/brain expect the bar to be secure. You don't even consider
another option because the bar is there. The bar with the suction cups.

No thanks. I'd rather do without.


Yes, we did; I was wondering how long before you'd disagree. IMO, going
without any aid is dumb if you can have something that will prevent a
fall or slip. Have you ever used a suction cup bar? They are pretty
damned strong and reliable. I also think I'm a decade or two older than
you and can better appreciate an aid to prevent a slip so that full
pressure is never needed.

As stated, even a bent nail can prevent a fall as it will steady you.
Put a foot of rope hanging from it to make it easier to hold if you want
to get fancy.

Perfect? No, but far better than noting.
http://www.consumerreports.org/healt...-a-grip-ov.htm
It grips, but we still have a few gripes. First, that disconnect between
claim and instructions: If you're not supposed to use the handle for
stability, what's the point? Also, installation can be a bit of a chore
for people with limited hand strength. Under our steadily increasing
load, the BB&B versions with larger cups held 196 pounds on average; the
Get A Grip Web-site version held 136 on average.

For someone who needs a little assistance in the shower or tub, either
version of Get A Grip should work fine. But don't rely on it for support
in a fall.

DerbyDad03 posted for all of us...


Didn't we just go through this a few months ago?

YES I was not convinced of the suction cups then.


"Most of the time you can avoid the need to put full weight..."

Sure, when you are intentionally trying to avoid putting full weight on it.

The problem comes when you reflexively need to put full weight on it and
your eyes/brain expect the bar to be secure. You don't even consider
another option because the bar is there. The bar with the suction cups.

No thanks. I'd rather do without.

+50 When one is of advanced age there is a different perspective of
falling; they can be fatal.

I would suggest that to get the experience of advanced age that a victim has
rigid splints applied to their arms and legs. Then attempt to shower. Have
spotters. Same as coating eyeglasses with Vaseline to simulate older eyes.

--
Tekkie

On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 07:09:09 -0700, Charles Bishop
wrote:

I've been asked to help install grab bars in an (E) tiled shower stall.
What is the best way to do this? Ordinarily I'd drill a hole through the
tile and whatever is behind it -mortar, greenwall, or backer board and
install the grab bar with toggle bolts.

I got to wondering though that if I drill a hole large enough for a
toggle bolt to go through, I might be weakening the wall enough that
holding onto the grab bar might pull some tiles loose, leading to
additional work.

Additionally, the house is an older one, having been built in late 50's
or 60's so it's likely there is a mortar bed - it looks to be the
original tile. If the mortar crumbles around the hole, the toggle bolt
will be pulling on the tile, maybe.
Do NOT use toggle bolts on a tiled shower. Find the studs and
screw/lag them directly to the studs. Anything else is not only
asking, but BEGGING for trouble.

Hi Charles,

I've been asked to help install grab bars in an (E) tiled shower stall.
What's the best way to do this? Ordinarily I'd drill a hole through the
tile and whatever is behind it -mortar, greenwall, or backer board and
install the grab bar with toggle bolts.

I got to wondering though that if I drill a hole large enough for a
toggle bolt to go through, I might be weakening the wall enough that
holding onto the grab bar might pull some tiles loose, leading to
additional work.

Additionally, the house is an older one, having been built in late 50's
or 60's so it's likely there is a mortar bed - it looks to be the
original tile. If the mortar crumbles around the hole, the toggle bolt
will be pulling on the tile, maybe.


Ideally, you should screw the grab bar directly to the studs, or to
blocking installed behind the wall. Of course, there is rarely blocking
available unless someone planned ahead. Also, even if you find a stud for
one end, the other end probably won't line up with the next stud.

I recently installed a grab bar at my mother-in-law's house. I located
one end over a stud and drove screws directly into the stud.

The other end landed between studs, so I used the anchor system designed
by the manufacturer for this situation:

https://www.amazon.com/Moen-SMA1005CH-Home-Securemount-
Chrome/dp/B004Q02FX0/ref=sr_1_2

I'm not sure how the dedicated anchor compares to a standard toggle bolt.
It cost more and required a much larger hole (1-1/4" if I remember
correctly), but it did provide a very secure mount for the grab bar.

In my case, I was drilling into drywall, so it wasn't a big problem.
Drilling a 1-1/4" hole in tile could take a bit more work, but it's
doable.

If you have access to the other side of the wall, one other option might
be to cut a hole and install blocking from the back side. Then patch the
hole on the back side when you're done. That's probably more trouble than
it's worth, but it would be secure if you're concerned about the strength
of the existing tile wall.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

HerHusband wrote:
Hi Charles,

I've been asked to help install grab bars in an (E) tiled shower stall.
What's the best way to do this? Ordinarily I'd drill a hole through the
tile and whatever is behind it -mortar, greenwall, or backer board and
install the grab bar with toggle bolts.

I got to wondering though that if I drill a hole large enough for a
toggle bolt to go through, I might be weakening the wall enough that
holding onto the grab bar might pull some tiles loose, leading to
additional work.

Additionally, the house is an older one, having been built in late 50's
or 60's so it's likely there is a mortar bed - it looks to be the
original tile. If the mortar crumbles around the hole, the toggle bolt
will be pulling on the tile, maybe.


Ideally, you should screw the grab bar directly to the studs, or to
blocking installed behind the wall. Of course, there is rarely blocking
available unless someone planned ahead. Also, even if you find a stud for
one end, the other end probably won't line up with the next stud.

I recently installed a grab bar at my mother-in-law's house. I located
one end over a stud and drove screws directly into the stud.

The other end landed between studs, so I used the anchor system designed
by the manufacturer for this situation:

https://www.amazon.com/Moen-SMA1005CH-Home-Securemount-
Chrome/dp/B004Q02FX0/ref=sr_1_2

How to video for this product shown he

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzwgnBckzsY

I'm not sure how the dedicated anchor compares to a standard toggle bolt.
It cost more and required a much larger hole (1-1/4" if I remember
correctly), but it did provide a very secure mount for the grab bar.

In my case, I was drilling into drywall, so it wasn't a big problem.
Drilling a 1-1/4" hole in tile could take a bit more work, but it's
doable.

If you have access to the other side of the wall, one other option might
be to cut a hole and install blocking from the back side. Then patch the
hole on the back side when you're done. That's probably more trouble than
it's worth, but it would be secure if you're concerned about the strength
of the existing tile wall.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

In ,
HerHusband typed:
Hi Charles,

I've been asked to help install grab bars in an (E) tiled shower
stall. What's the best way to do this? Ordinarily I'd drill a hole
through the tile and whatever is behind it -mortar, greenwall, or
backer board and install the grab bar with toggle bolts.

I got to wondering though that if I drill a hole large enough for a
toggle bolt to go through, I might be weakening the wall enough that
holding onto the grab bar might pull some tiles loose, leading to
additional work.

Additionally, the house is an older one, having been built in late
50's or 60's so it's likely there is a mortar bed - it looks to be
the original tile. If the mortar crumbles around the hole, the
toggle bolt will be pulling on the tile, maybe.

If you have access to the other side of the wall, one other option
might be to cut a hole and install blocking from the back side. Then
patch the hole on the back side when you're done. That's probably
more trouble than it's worth, but it would be secure if you're
concerned about the strength of the existing tile wall.

I agree -- that's another option if access to the wall from the other side
is available.

Per Charles Bishop:
Ordinarily I'd drill a hole through the
tile and whatever is behind it -mortar, greenwall, or backer board and
install the grab bar with toggle bolts.

I don't like the toggle bolts.

With toggle bolts, it will probably feel nice and solid - until somebody
falls, grabs it, and puts most of their weight on it..... and then
things could get ugly.... and with your name on it.

Go for a stud.
--
Pete Cresswell

In article ,
Charles Bishop wrote:

I've been asked to help install grab bars in an (E) tiled shower stall.
What is the best way to do this? Ordinarily I'd drill a hole through the
tile and whatever is behind it -mortar, greenwall, or backer board and
install the grab bar with toggle bolts.

I got to wondering though that if I drill a hole large enough for a
toggle bolt to go through, I might be weakening the wall enough that
holding onto the grab bar might pull some tiles loose, leading to
additional work.

Additionally, the house is an older one, having been built in late 50's
or 60's so it's likely there is a mortar bed - it looks to be the
original tile. If the mortar crumbles around the hole, the toggle bolt
will be pulling on the tile, maybe.

Thanks for the replies. I'm going to reply here rather than individually.

0. The bar is to be mounted horizontally rather than vertically - is
this recommended against?

1. Not going to use toggles, as people have recommended against them.

2. Mounting to a stud is the best, but

2.1 As far as I know the flange at the end has 3 holes for screws at
120 degrees apart. If the "top" hole is centered on the stud, the bottom
two will either be at the far sides of the stud, and I wouldn't consider
this secure. In addition, the stud may not be plumb enough to guarantee
finding a secure anchor and if so, there are holes in the tile.

2.2 It will be unlikely the second end will land on a stud, so then
I'm back to toggles. The bar can be angled, but it may have to be angled
too much to be useful to meet a stud.

3. The best solution was to open up the wall on the other side, and put
in 2 by 6 between studs where I need them. I hadn't thought of that. I
don't know if this is possible yet so I'll check.

--
charles

On Friday, November 25, 2016 at 1:26:41 AM UTC-5, Charles Bishop wrote:
In article ,
Charles Bishop wrote:

I've been asked to help install grab bars in an (E) tiled shower stall.
What is the best way to do this? Ordinarily I'd drill a hole through the
tile and whatever is behind it -mortar, greenwall, or backer board and
install the grab bar with toggle bolts.

I got to wondering though that if I drill a hole large enough for a
toggle bolt to go through, I might be weakening the wall enough that
holding onto the grab bar might pull some tiles loose, leading to
additional work.

Additionally, the house is an older one, having been built in late 50's
or 60's so it's likely there is a mortar bed - it looks to be the
original tile. If the mortar crumbles around the hole, the toggle bolt
will be pulling on the tile, maybe.

Thanks for the replies. I'm going to reply here rather than individually.

0. The bar is to be mounted horizontally rather than vertically - is
this recommended against?

1. Not going to use toggles, as people have recommended against them.

2. Mounting to a stud is the best, but

2.1 As far as I know the flange at the end has 3 holes for screws at
120 degrees apart. If the "top" hole is centered on the stud, the bottom
two will either be at the far sides of the stud, and I wouldn't consider
this secure. In addition, the stud may not be plumb enough to guarantee
finding a secure anchor and if so, there are holes in the tile.

2.2 It will be unlikely the second end will land on a stud, so then
I'm back to toggles. The bar can be angled, but it may have to be angled
too much to be useful to meet a stud.

3. The best solution was to open up the wall on the other side, and put
in 2 by 6 between studs where I need them. I hadn't thought of that. I
don't know if this is possible yet so I'll check.

--
charles

Arnie posted a link to a mount that addresses your stud and non-stud mounting issues.

Did you view it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzwgnBckzsY

On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 22:26:36 -0700, Charles Bishop wrote:

In article ,
Charles Bishop wrote:

I've been asked to help install grab bars in an (E) tiled shower stall.
What is the best way to do this? Ordinarily I'd drill a hole through the
tile and whatever is behind it -mortar, greenwall, or backer board and
install the grab bar with toggle bolts.

I got to wondering though that if I drill a hole large enough for a
toggle bolt to go through, I might be weakening the wall enough that
holding onto the grab bar might pull some tiles loose, leading to
additional work.

Additionally, the house is an older one, having been built in late 50's
or 60's so it's likely there is a mortar bed - it looks to be the
original tile. If the mortar crumbles around the hole, the toggle bolt
will be pulling on the tile, maybe.

Thanks for the replies. I'm going to reply here rather than individually.

0. The bar is to be mounted horizontally rather than vertically - is
this recommended against?

1. Not going to use toggles, as people have recommended against them.

2. Mounting to a stud is the best, but

2.1 As far as I know the flange at the end has 3 holes for screws at
120 degrees apart. If the "top" hole is centered on the stud, the bottom
two will either be at the far sides of the stud, and I wouldn't consider
this secure. In addition, the stud may not be plumb enough to guarantee
finding a secure anchor and if so, there are holes in the tile.

Drill an additional hole in the mounting flange? What material is the flange made from? If stainless, steel,
drilling a hole could be a little tedious but not impossible.


2.2 It will be unlikely the second end will land on a stud, so then
I'm back to toggles. The bar can be angled, but it may have to be angled
too much to be useful to meet a stud.

Has the bar been purchased already? Can it be exchanged for a proper length bar? How long is the bar?


3. The best solution was to open up the wall on the other side, and put
in 2 by 6 between studs where I need them. I hadn't thought of that. I
don't know if this is possible yet so I'll check.

If opening up the other side of the wall is an option, then your problems are solved. However, if you can
avoid the extra work, I would.

On 11/25/2016 12:26 AM, Charles Bishop wrote:


Thanks for the replies. I'm going to reply here rather than individually.

0. The bar is to be mounted horizontally rather than vertically - is
this recommended against?


We have two bars. One is about 15" and is vertical at the front of the
shower. You can easily grab this as you enter or exit. The other is on
the back wall. In the 60" shower it is a 48" bar, in the 48" shower we
used a 30" bar. The bar in the rear is good to hold while in the shower.

On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 10:05:56 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 11/25/2016 12:26 AM, Charles Bishop wrote:


Thanks for the replies. I'm going to reply here rather than individually.

0. The bar is to be mounted horizontally rather than vertically - is
this recommended against?


We have two bars. One is about 15" and is vertical at the front of the
shower. You can easily grab this as you enter or exit. The other is on
the back wall. In the 60" shower it is a 48" bar, in the 48" shower we
used a 30" bar. The bar in the rear is good to hold while in the shower.

Let me add, regardless of grab bars, be sure the floor of the shower or tub is slip resistant or has some kind
of slip resistant mat or appliques. Also, if the person using the shower is very unstable, a shower seat
might be a great investment.

On 11/24/2016 11:26 PM, Charles Bishop wrote:

[snip]

2.1 As far as I know the flange at the end has 3 holes for screws at
120 degrees apart. If the "top" hole is centered on the stud, the bottom
two will either be at the far sides of the stud, and I wouldn't consider
this secure. In addition, the stud may not be plumb enough to guarantee
finding a secure anchor and if so, there are holes in the tile.

When I bought this house, there were 3 grab bars in the bathroom. All
were mounted vertically, so there was no problem getting both screws in
the stud. I gave them to a relative who needed them. They were mounted
vertically again.

[snip]

--
30 days until the winter celebration (Sunday December 25, 2016 12:00:00
AM for 1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The fact that [the biblical book] Hebrews is not an epistle of St.
Paul, or of any other apostle, is proved by what it says in chapter
two...." [Martin Luther]

I have had to install grab bars over tiles and it is hard to find the edges,
so that you can be certain that the screws go into solid wood and not split
out the edge.

I used a good stud finder to find the general location of the stud, but then
needed to confirm where the center of the stud was.

I had a small diameter steel spring or piano wire length about 1/32" in
diameter, sharpened one end to look similar to a drill point and wound
copper wire around the other end so that it was large enough for a drill
chuck to hold onto.

Then I guided the wire drill bit in between the tiles in the grout joint,
where there was no stud the wire would easily penetrate after passing
through the grout and backing material. When it hit a stud one would feel it
slowly enter the wood. Four or five holes would locate the edges of the stud
and confirm where the centerline was so that the tile could be drilled for
the anchor screw to be firmly attached.

When finished a little grout or caulking fills the tiny holes to keep water
out.



"Charles Bishop" wrote in message
...
I've been asked to help install grab bars in an (E) tiled shower stall.
What is the best way to do this? Ordinarily I'd drill a hole through the
tile and whatever is behind it -mortar, greenwall, or backer board and
install the grab bar with toggle bolts.

I got to wondering though that if I drill a hole large enough for a
toggle bolt to go through, I might be weakening the wall enough that
holding onto the grab bar might pull some tiles loose, leading to
additional work.

Additionally, the house is an older one, having been built in late 50's
or 60's so it's likely there is a mortar bed - it looks to be the
original tile. If the mortar crumbles around the hole, the toggle bolt
will be pulling on the tile, maybe.

--
charles

EXT wrote:
I have had to install grab bars over tiles and it is hard to find the
edges, so that you can be certain that the screws go into solid wood and
not split out the edge.

I used a good stud finder to find the general location of the stud, but
then needed to confirm where the center of the stud was.

I had a small diameter steel spring or piano wire length about 1/32" in
diameter, sharpened one end to look similar to a drill point and wound
copper wire around the other end so that it was large enough for a drill
chuck to hold onto.

Dremel has 1/32 drill. Any reason why that would not work?

Then I guided the wire drill bit in between the tiles in the grout
joint, where there was no stud the wire would easily penetrate after
passing through the grout and backing material. When it hit a stud one
would feel it slowly enter the wood. Four or five holes would locate the
edges of the stud and confirm where the centerline was so that the tile
could be drilled for the anchor screw to be firmly attached.

When finished a little grout or caulking fills the tiny holes to keep
water out.



"Charles Bishop" wrote in message
...
I've been asked to help install grab bars in an (E) tiled shower stall.
What is the best way to do this? Ordinarily I'd drill a hole through the
tile and whatever is behind it -mortar, greenwall, or backer board and
install the grab bar with toggle bolts.

I got to wondering though that if I drill a hole large enough for a
toggle bolt to go through, I might be weakening the wall enough that
holding onto the grab bar might pull some tiles loose, leading to
additional work.

Additionally, the house is an older one, having been built in late 50's
or 60's so it's likely there is a mortar bed - it looks to be the
original tile. If the mortar crumbles around the hole, the toggle bolt
will be pulling on the tile, maybe.

--
charles

On Friday, November 25, 2016 at 2:48:12 PM UTC-5, Arnie Goetchius wrote:
EXT wrote:
I have had to install grab bars over tiles and it is hard to find the
edges, so that you can be certain that the screws go into solid wood and
not split out the edge.

I used a good stud finder to find the general location of the stud, but
then needed to confirm where the center of the stud was.

I had a small diameter steel spring or piano wire length about 1/32" in
diameter, sharpened one end to look similar to a drill point and wound
copper wire around the other end so that it was large enough for a drill
chuck to hold onto.

Dremel has 1/32 drill. Any reason why that would not work?


One of the advantages of using a wire is the length.

I don't know how long a 1/32" wire could be, but a "bit" made from a wire hanger will
drill a nice neat hole though a cinder block wall or through a rim joist plus cedar shake
plus insulation board plus vinyl siding.

A wire is a great way to locate a hole on the other side of a thick wall. It won't blow
out the block either. If you don't like where the hole is, it's small enough to easily
seal up.

On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 14:48:08 -0500, Arnie Goetchius
wrote:


Dremel has 1/32 drill. Any reason why that would not work?

An Xray machine would do the job with NO damage to the wall whatsoever.

On 11/24/2016 6:09 AM, Charles Bishop wrote:
I've been asked to help install grab bars in an (E) tiled shower stall.
What is the best way to do this? Ordinarily I'd drill a hole through the
tile and whatever is behind it -mortar, greenwall, or backer board and
install the grab bar with toggle bolts.


Just be careful it's not a Glory Hole yer drillin' there, Chuck.
LOL


p.s. Why do gay bath houses have grab bars in their showers?
Ever wonder about that?

"Colonel Edmund J. Burke" wrote in news:Ku%
:

On 11/24/2016 6:09 AM, Charles Bishop wrote:
I've been asked to help install grab bars in an (E) tiled shower stall.
What is the best way to do this? Ordinarily I'd drill a hole through the
tile and whatever is behind it -mortar, greenwall, or backer board and
install the grab bar with toggle bolts.


Just be careful it's not a Glory Hole yer drillin' there, Chuck.
LOL


p.s. Why do gay bath houses have grab bars in their showers?
Ever wonder about that?




Sounds like Urinal Burke knows all about gay bath houses. Only someone with
intimate knowledge of gay bath houses would have that information. Urinal
Burke clearly has spent much time in secveral gay bath houses. Maybe that's
where he meets his trannie boyfriends.

ROFL LMAO LOLLITY LOLOL!!!

HAIL BRENNUS!

In article ,
says...



On 11/24/2016 6:09 AM, Charles Bishop wrote:
I've been asked to help install grab bars in an (E) tiled shower stall.
What is the best way to do this? Ordinarily I'd drill a hole through the
tile and whatever is behind it -mortar, greenwall, or backer board and
install the grab bar with toggle bolts.


Just be careful it's not a Glory Hole yer drillin' there, Chuck.
LOL


p.s. Why do gay bath houses have grab bars in their showers?
Ever wonder about that?

I think we can all figure THAT one out.

--

Checkmate, Royal Order of the DoW #1, and Official Ko0K Wrangler
AUK Hammer of Thor award, Feb. 2012 (Pre-Burnore)
Destroyer of the AUK Ko0k Vote (Post-Burnore)
Originator of the "Dance for me" (tm) lame
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