A friend of mine is having sewer pipe problems, with root intrusion and
blockage. The plumber has come out and cleared the blockage. He is now
telling her that a large section of drain pipe (50') should be replace
to prevent future problems.

This section is made of Orangeburg pipe, which, from Google[1], is a
fiber pipe strengthened with pitch. There are small areas of root
intrusion there (shown by camera inspection) but nothing that looks like
full blockage. He is saying that it's not good to use a snake to clean
this pipe of roots since the snake would likely cause damage to the
pipe. He is trying to sell her a more costly solution of lining the pipe
while it's in place.

So, Any thoughts on whether the Orangeburg pipe can be cleaned with a
power snake without damaging it beyond use?

In general, the plumbing supervisor is pointing to doom and desolation
if she doesn't do the work suggested. The total, under his plans would
come to $17,000, though he's willing to "discount" the price for signing
up.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orangeburg_pipe

Thanks for any help.

Charles

On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 9:51:51 AM UTC-5, Charles Bishop wrote:
A friend of mine is having sewer pipe problems, with root intrusion and
blockage. The plumber has come out and cleared the blockage. He is now
telling her that a large section of drain pipe (50') should be replace
to prevent future problems.

This section is made of Orangeburg pipe, which, from Google[1], is a
fiber pipe strengthened with pitch. There are small areas of root
intrusion there (shown by camera inspection) but nothing that looks like
full blockage. He is saying that it's not good to use a snake to clean
this pipe of roots since the snake would likely cause damage to the
pipe. He is trying to sell her a more costly solution of lining the pipe
while it's in place.

So, Any thoughts on whether the Orangeburg pipe can be cleaned with a
power snake without damaging it beyond use?

In general, the plumbing supervisor is pointing to doom and desolation
if she doesn't do the work suggested. The total, under his plans would
come to $17,000, though he's willing to "discount" the price for signing
up.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orangeburg_pipe

Thanks for any help.

Charles

There is probably some truth to what he's saying. Old OB pipe that has
root intrusion probably isn't in the greatest shape. But on the other
hand what does she have to lose by having it snaked? Is this 50 ft section
in an area where it can't easily be trenched and replaced that way?
I would think you could do that for less than $17K. If it's accessible,
then what does she have to lose by trying the snake? If it fails, then
trench. I would think there is a good chance you could snake it and it
would be fine. Where are the roots coming from? Consider getting rid
of the offending tree?

On 11/6/2016 8:51 AM, Charles Bishop wrote:
A friend of mine is having sewer pipe problems, with root intrusion and
blockage. The plumber has come out and cleared the blockage. He is now
telling her that a large section of drain pipe (50') should be replace
to prevent future problems.

This section is made of Orangeburg pipe, which, from Google[1], is a
fiber pipe strengthened with pitch. There are small areas of root
intrusion there (shown by camera inspection) but nothing that looks like
full blockage. He is saying that it's not good to use a snake to clean
this pipe of roots since the snake would likely cause damage to the
pipe. He is trying to sell her a more costly solution of lining the pipe
while it's in place.

So, Any thoughts on whether the Orangeburg pipe can be cleaned with a
power snake without damaging it beyond use?

In general, the plumbing supervisor is pointing to doom and desolation
if she doesn't do the work suggested. The total, under his plans would
come to $17,000, though he's willing to "discount" the price for signing
up.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orangeburg_pipe

Thanks for any help.

Charles


He has some good point and root intrusion is a well known problem. It
may not have to be dug and replaced though. Many pipes can be relined
in place.
http://pipelt.com/pipelining/
Still not cheap though.
http://www.expresssewer.com/blog/bid...-other-repairs

On 11/06/2016 7:51 AM, Charles Bishop wrote:
A friend of mine is having sewer pipe problems, with root intrusion and
blockage. The plumber has come out and cleared the blockage. He is now
telling her that a large section of drain pipe (50') should be replace
to prevent future problems.

This section is made of Orangeburg pipe, ...

So, Any thoughts on whether the Orangeburg pipe can be cleaned with a
power snake without damaging it beyond use?

....

If it's begun failing, a new line is in the future, sooner or later; how
much later is, of course, indeterminate before it just becomes totally
unserviceable.

Would basically agree with previous poster altho I suspect that snaking
it will likely shorten the above time but again by how much is unknowable.

Unless it is extremely deep and/or the soil is very difficult, 50-ft
could be hand-trenched and replaced for considerably less than $17,000
unless it's under a patio slab and/or other obstructions.

Too little information to make a complete assessment, but I'd also wager
there are far less expensive solutions but if it's operational again at
the moment, I'd suggest the best alternative for the present is do
nothing but starting looking at the replacement options.

Charles Bishop writes:

A friend of mine is having sewer pipe problems, with root intrusion and
blockage. The plumber has come out and cleared the blockage. He is now
telling her that a large section of drain pipe (50') should be replace
to prevent future problems.

This section is made of Orangeburg pipe, which, from Google[1], is a
fiber pipe strengthened with pitch. There are small areas of root
intrusion there (shown by camera inspection) but nothing that looks like
full blockage. He is saying that it's not good to use a snake to clean
this pipe of roots since the snake would likely cause damage to the
pipe. He is trying to sell her a more costly solution of lining the pipe
while it's in place.

So, Any thoughts on whether the Orangeburg pipe can be cleaned with a
power snake without damaging it beyond use?

In general, the plumbing supervisor is pointing to doom and desolation
if she doesn't do the work suggested. The total, under his plans would
come to $17,000, though he's willing to "discount" the price for signing
up.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orangeburg_pipe

Thanks for any help.

I'm not a plumber, just a home owner.
If a pipe has roots in it, that's a sign it's not watertight.
The roots will keep coming back, each time quicker and thicker.

I think it would take quite a while for the snake to fully degrade
the pipe, but the roots will degrade the pipe each time they
intrude.

It's not clear to me why 50 feet of pipe would take 17K to
replace or add a liner.
When I had a similar problem with gutter drain pipes,
I dug them up and replaced the bad section. Total cost was the
price of the new pipe.

Of course the gutter pipes were only a few inches down although
I did end up uncovering a part of the system that was 3 feet down.

The liner should be a lot cheaper than replacement.
I'd rather have the pipes replaced because that new PVC stuff
lasts just about forever.

There are chemicals you can pour down the drain that kill
roots. Not good with septic tanks. I like to actually fix
problems, it's part of owning a home, but chemicals would
be way cheaper and might serve as a temporary solution.

--
Dan Espen

On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 7:47:30 AM UTC-8, dpb wrote:
On 11/06/2016 7:51 AM, Charles Bishop wrote:
A friend of mine is having sewer pipe problems, with root intrusion and
blockage. The plumber has come out and cleared the blockage. He is now
telling her that a large section of drain pipe (50') should be replace
to prevent future problems.

This section is made of Orangeburg pipe, ...

So, Any thoughts on whether the Orangeburg pipe can be cleaned with a
power snake without damaging it beyond use?

...

If it's begun failing, a new line is in the future, sooner or later; how
much later is, of course, indeterminate before it just becomes totally
unserviceable.

Would basically agree with previous poster altho I suspect that snaking
it will likely shorten the above time but again by how much is unknowable.

Unless it is extremely deep and/or the soil is very difficult, 50-ft
could be hand-trenched and replaced for considerably less than $17,000
unless it's under a patio slab and/or other obstructions.

Too little information to make a complete assessment, but I'd also wager
there are far less expensive solutions but if it's operational again at
the moment, I'd suggest the best alternative for the present is do
nothing but starting looking at the replacement options.

I have had the same problem for the past five years and after the
plumber cleared the roots I started using root killer every Spring
and Fall with no problems but I know when I sell my house the pipes
will have to be replaced.

On 11/6/2016 8:51 AM, Charles Bishop wrote:

I'd get three estimates and go with the guy with the middle price,
unless one of the others offers a unique option that you just gotta have.

On 11/6/2016 10:47 AM, dpb wrote:


Unless it is extremely deep and/or the soil is very difficult, 50-ft
could be hand-trenched and replaced for considerably less than $17,000
unless it's under a patio slab and/or other obstructions.


I admire your energy to hand trench 50' by a minimum of 4' deep.

On Sun, 06 Nov 2016 10:58:13 -0500, Dan Espen
wrote:

Charles Bishop writes:

A friend of mine is having sewer pipe problems, with root intrusion and
blockage. The plumber has come out and cleared the blockage. He is now
telling her that a large section of drain pipe (50') should be replace
to prevent future problems.

This section is made of Orangeburg pipe, which, from Google[1], is a
fiber pipe strengthened with pitch. There are small areas of root
intrusion there (shown by camera inspection) but nothing that looks like
full blockage. He is saying that it's not good to use a snake to clean
this pipe of roots since the snake would likely cause damage to the
pipe. He is trying to sell her a more costly solution of lining the pipe
while it's in place.

So, Any thoughts on whether the Orangeburg pipe can be cleaned with a
power snake without damaging it beyond use?

In general, the plumbing supervisor is pointing to doom and desolation
if she doesn't do the work suggested. The total, under his plans would
come to $17,000, though he's willing to "discount" the price for signing
up.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orangeburg_pipe

Thanks for any help.

I'm not a plumber, just a home owner.
If a pipe has roots in it, that's a sign it's not watertight.
The roots will keep coming back, each time quicker and thicker.

I think it would take quite a while for the snake to fully degrade
the pipe, but the roots will degrade the pipe each time they
intrude.

It's not clear to me why 50 feet of pipe would take 17K to
replace or add a liner.
When I had a similar problem with gutter drain pipes,
I dug them up and replaced the bad section. Total cost was the
price of the new pipe.

Of course the gutter pipes were only a few inches down although
I did end up uncovering a part of the system that was 3 feet down.

The liner should be a lot cheaper than replacement.
I'd rather have the pipes replaced because that new PVC stuff
lasts just about forever.

There are chemicals you can pour down the drain that kill
roots. Not good with septic tanks. I like to actually fix
problems, it's part of owning a home, but chemicals would
be way cheaper and might serve as a temporary solution.

Get multiple opinions / estimates. If it must be replaced, save
yourself a bundle of $$, hire some laborers to dig it up. Plumbers
charge you their regular hourly rate for excavation.

If you excavate, buy the pipe, remove the old pipe and simply pay the
plumber to install and connect the new pipe, you should be able to do
it all for $3k - $4k.

On 11/06/2016 10:20 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/6/2016 10:47 AM, dpb wrote:


Unless it is extremely deep and/or the soil is very difficult, 50-ft
could be hand-trenched and replaced for considerably less than $17,000
unless it's under a patio slab and/or other obstructions.


I admire your energy to hand trench 50' by a minimum of 4' deep.

Been dere, dun dat! 'Course, was younger when did stuff meself, but
in most places there's absolutely no problems getting day labor...

If it's really as deep as 4-ft, there's some pain indeed, most
residential lines anywhere I've ever seen aren't close to that deep,
however.

On Sun, 06 Nov 2016 12:01:51 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 11/06/2016 10:20 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/6/2016 10:47 AM, dpb wrote:


Unless it is extremely deep and/or the soil is very difficult, 50-ft
could be hand-trenched and replaced for considerably less than $17,000
unless it's under a patio slab and/or other obstructions.


I admire your energy to hand trench 50' by a minimum of 4' deep.

Been dere, dun dat! 'Course, was younger when did stuff meself, but
in most places there's absolutely no problems getting day labor...

If it's really as deep as 4-ft, there's some pain indeed, most
residential lines anywhere I've ever seen aren't close to that deep,
however.


Rental places have machines for excavation. You can rent them by the
hour or a full day. That beats hand digging and will still save a lot
compared to having a plumber do it.

In article ,
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 11/6/2016 10:47 AM, dpb wrote:


Unless it is extremely deep and/or the soil is very difficult, 50-ft
could be hand-trenched and replaced for considerably less than $17,000
unless it's under a patio slab and/or other obstructions.


I admire your energy to hand trench 50' by a minimum of 4' deep.

The pipe is about 3 feet deep at the house end, and 6' deep at the
street end. In addition there is a slope with an abrupt "curve" down
near the street end, which makes me think the pipe is more than 6' deep
at the top of the curve down.

Of course, I'd rather do the work myself, with laborers than pay
plumbers' rates to do the digging.

See another post for a full description of the work.

--
Charles

In article ,
wrote:

On Sun, 06 Nov 2016 12:01:51 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 11/06/2016 10:20 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/6/2016 10:47 AM, dpb wrote:


Unless it is extremely deep and/or the soil is very difficult, 50-ft
could be hand-trenched and replaced for considerably less than $17,000
unless it's under a patio slab and/or other obstructions.


I admire your energy to hand trench 50' by a minimum of 4' deep.

Been dere, dun dat! 'Course, was younger when did stuff meself, but
in most places there's absolutely no problems getting day labor...

If it's really as deep as 4-ft, there's some pain indeed, most
residential lines anywhere I've ever seen aren't close to that deep,
however.


Rental places have machines for excavation. You can rent them by the
hour or a full day. That beats hand digging and will still save a lot
compared to having a plumber do it.

It's a 3" pipe, probably 4' down on average, and you need to get the
pipe out, even if in pieces, and new pipe down (ABS).

How wide would you make the trench, and is there a machine you know of
that would do this work that can be rented?

Oh, there may be sprinkler pipe in the path of the trench.

--
harles

In article ,
bob haller wrote:

```````````````

My bad line was first discovered perhaps 15 years ago. The line had roots in
all joints, 150 feet or so. They wanted 15 grand to replace the entire line
including under the house/

I had the line snaked, and at most a couple times a year, early spring before
the trees leaf out. dump a 25 pound bag of ROCK SALT in my basement wash tub,
add very hot water, And mix with a shovel

This kills the roots but leaves the big mature trees around my home un
harmed.

I mentioned something like this and was reminded that the salt solution
is on the bottom of the pipe and unlikely to kill roots coming in near
the top.

Any comments?

tree root killer can kill trees, it happended to a friend, cost him 2000
bucks to remove 2 trees

--
charles

In article ,
"Jack G." wrote:

On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 7:47:30 AM UTC-8, dpb wrote:
On 11/06/2016 7:51 AM, Charles Bishop wrote:
A friend of mine is having sewer pipe problems, with root intrusion and
blockage. The plumber has come out and cleared the blockage. He is now
telling her that a large section of drain pipe (50') should be replace
to prevent future problems.

This section is made of Orangeburg pipe, ...

So, Any thoughts on whether the Orangeburg pipe can be cleaned with a
power snake without damaging it beyond use?

...

If it's begun failing, a new line is in the future, sooner or later; how
much later is, of course, indeterminate before it just becomes totally
unserviceable.

Would basically agree with previous poster altho I suspect that snaking
it will likely shorten the above time but again by how much is unknowable.

Unless it is extremely deep and/or the soil is very difficult, 50-ft
could be hand-trenched and replaced for considerably less than $17,000
unless it's under a patio slab and/or other obstructions.

Too little information to make a complete assessment, but I'd also wager
there are far less expensive solutions but if it's operational again at
the moment, I'd suggest the best alternative for the present is do
nothing but starting looking at the replacement options.

I have had the same problem for the past five years and after the
plumber cleared the roots I started using root killer every Spring
and Fall with no problems but I know when I sell my house the pipes
will have to be replaced.

Do the pipes have to be replaced because you used root killer, or
because they are old and damaged?

Or, why will the pipes need to be replaced?

--
charles

In article ,
trader_4 wrote:

On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 9:51:51 AM UTC-5, Charles Bishop wrote:
A friend of mine is having sewer pipe problems, with root intrusion and
blockage. The plumber has come out and cleared the blockage. He is now
telling her that a large section of drain pipe (50') should be replace
to prevent future problems.

This section is made of Orangeburg pipe, which, from Google[1], is a
fiber pipe strengthened with pitch. There are small areas of root
intrusion there (shown by camera inspection) but nothing that looks like
full blockage. He is saying that it's not good to use a snake to clean
this pipe of roots since the snake would likely cause damage to the
pipe. He is trying to sell her a more costly solution of lining the pipe
while it's in place.

So, Any thoughts on whether the Orangeburg pipe can be cleaned with a
power snake without damaging it beyond use?

In general, the plumbing supervisor is pointing to doom and desolation
if she doesn't do the work suggested. The total, under his plans would
come to $17,000, though he's willing to "discount" the price for signing
up.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orangeburg_pipe

Thanks for any help.

Charles

There is probably some truth to what he's saying. Old OB pipe that has
root intrusion probably isn't in the greatest shape. But on the other
hand what does she have to lose by having it snaked? Is this 50 ft section
in an area where it can't easily be trenched and replaced that way?

See another post for more details, but it could be trenched but at some
labor.
I would think you could do that for less than $17K. If it's accessible,

See another post - $17 is for 3 parts of the work, the 50' section of
Orangeburg is roughly $11? (I don't have all the details)
then what does she have to lose by trying the snake? If it fails, then
trench. I would think there is a good chance you could snake it and it
would be fine. Where are the roots coming from? Consider getting rid
of the offending tree?

That was my thinking -she can snake it this time and then this part
could be done in the future, if this part fails (again?) and nothing is
lost if she waits. Someone also mentioned salt in the drains will help
retard root growth.

The plumber sort of said that snaking would destroy the pipe, and this
shortly after they had snaked the pipe to try to break up the clog. I'm
thinking that along with the technical information she's getting
Salesmanship.

--
charles

In article , Steve Stone
wrote:

On 11/6/2016 8:51 AM, Charles Bishop wrote:

I'd get three estimates and go with the guy with the middle price,
unless one of the others offers a unique option that you just gotta have.

I've posted more information in other posts. It's not a case of
different estimates (well, it is) but what work needs to be done - there
are 3 different areas associated with the work.

--
Charles

In article , Dan Espen
wrote:

Charles Bishop writes:

A friend of mine is having sewer pipe problems, with root intrusion and
blockage. The plumber has come out and cleared the blockage. He is now
telling her that a large section of drain pipe (50') should be replace
to prevent future problems.

This section is made of Orangeburg pipe, which, from Google[1], is a
fiber pipe strengthened with pitch. There are small areas of root
intrusion there (shown by camera inspection) but nothing that looks like
full blockage. He is saying that it's not good to use a snake to clean
this pipe of roots since the snake would likely cause damage to the
pipe. He is trying to sell her a more costly solution of lining the pipe
while it's in place.

So, Any thoughts on whether the Orangeburg pipe can be cleaned with a
power snake without damaging it beyond use?

In general, the plumbing supervisor is pointing to doom and desolation
if she doesn't do the work suggested. The total, under his plans would
come to $17,000, though he's willing to "discount" the price for signing
up.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orangeburg_pipe

Thanks for any help.

I'm not a plumber, just a home owner.
If a pipe has roots in it, that's a sign it's not watertight.
The roots will keep coming back, each time quicker and thicker.

I think it would take quite a while for the snake to fully degrade
the pipe, but the roots will degrade the pipe each time they
intrude.

That was my thinking as well, and why I asked here.

It's not clear to me why 50 feet of pipe would take 17K to
replace or add a liner.
When I had a similar problem with gutter drain pipes,
I dug them up and replaced the bad section. Total cost was the
price of the new pipe.

See details in other posts for cost details.

Of course the gutter pipes were only a few inches down although
I did end up uncovering a part of the system that was 3 feet down.

The liner should be a lot cheaper than replacement.
I'd rather have the pipes replaced because that new PVC stuff
lasts just about forever.

I was thinking that liner should be more costly than replacement,
because of the plumbers' cost, while I can hire laborers.

There are chemicals you can pour down the drain that kill
roots. Not good with septic tanks. I like to actually fix
problems, it's part of owning a home, but chemicals would
be way cheaper and might serve as a temporary solution.

No septic tanks. Someone said the chemicals will only kill the roots at
the bottom of the pipe, not the ones near the top. Is this the case?

--
charles

In article ,
Stormin' Norman wrote:

On Sun, 06 Nov 2016 10:58:13 -0500, Dan Espen
wrote:

Charles Bishop writes:

A friend of mine is having sewer pipe problems, with root intrusion and
blockage. The plumber has come out and cleared the blockage. He is now
telling her that a large section of drain pipe (50') should be replace
to prevent future problems.

This section is made of Orangeburg pipe, which, from Google[1], is a
fiber pipe strengthened with pitch. There are small areas of root
intrusion there (shown by camera inspection) but nothing that looks like
full blockage. He is saying that it's not good to use a snake to clean
this pipe of roots since the snake would likely cause damage to the
pipe. He is trying to sell her a more costly solution of lining the pipe
while it's in place.

So, Any thoughts on whether the Orangeburg pipe can be cleaned with a
power snake without damaging it beyond use?

In general, the plumbing supervisor is pointing to doom and desolation
if she doesn't do the work suggested. The total, under his plans would
come to $17,000, though he's willing to "discount" the price for signing
up.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orangeburg_pipe

Thanks for any help.

I'm not a plumber, just a home owner.
If a pipe has roots in it, that's a sign it's not watertight.
The roots will keep coming back, each time quicker and thicker.

I think it would take quite a while for the snake to fully degrade
the pipe, but the roots will degrade the pipe each time they
intrude.

It's not clear to me why 50 feet of pipe would take 17K to
replace or add a liner.
When I had a similar problem with gutter drain pipes,
I dug them up and replaced the bad section. Total cost was the
price of the new pipe.

Of course the gutter pipes were only a few inches down although
I did end up uncovering a part of the system that was 3 feet down.

The liner should be a lot cheaper than replacement.
I'd rather have the pipes replaced because that new PVC stuff
lasts just about forever.

There are chemicals you can pour down the drain that kill
roots. Not good with septic tanks. I like to actually fix
problems, it's part of owning a home, but chemicals would
be way cheaper and might serve as a temporary solution.

Get multiple opinions / estimates. If it must be replaced, save
yourself a bundle of $$, hire some laborers to dig it up. Plumbers
charge you their regular hourly rate for excavation.

If you excavate, buy the pipe, remove the old pipe and simply pay the
plumber to install and connect the new pipe, you should be able to do
it all for $3k - $4k.

More info in another post on the cost, but that price is about what I
thought. The (E) pipe is deep though, roughly 4' on average (3'-6') over
the 50 feet. So, a long, skinny, deep trench - lotsa work?

--
cahrles

In article , dpb wrote:

On 11/06/2016 7:51 AM, Charles Bishop wrote:
A friend of mine is having sewer pipe problems, with root intrusion and
blockage. The plumber has come out and cleared the blockage. He is now
telling her that a large section of drain pipe (50') should be replace
to prevent future problems.

This section is made of Orangeburg pipe, ...

So, Any thoughts on whether the Orangeburg pipe can be cleaned with a
power snake without damaging it beyond use?

...

If it's begun failing, a new line is in the future, sooner or later; how
much later is, of course, indeterminate before it just becomes totally
unserviceable.

Would basically agree with previous poster altho I suspect that snaking
it will likely shorten the above time but again by how much is unknowable.

Unless it is extremely deep and/or the soil is very difficult, 50-ft
could be hand-trenched and replaced for considerably less than $17,000
unless it's under a patio slab and/or other obstructions.

Sorry about the misinformation - better cost breakdown in another post.

Too little information to make a complete assessment, but I'd also wager
there are far less expensive solutions but if it's operational again at
the moment, I'd suggest the best alternative for the present is do
nothing but starting looking at the replacement options.

One part needs to be "fixed" at this point, but after that, what to do
and when to do it is a concern.

--
charles

```````````````

My bad line was first discovered perhaps 15 years ago. The line had roots in all joints, 150 feet or so. They wanted 15 grand to replace the entire line including under the house/

I had the line snaked, and at most a couple times a year, early spring before the trees leaf out. dump a 25 pound bag of ROCK SALT in my basement wash tub, add very hot water, And mix with a shovel

This kills the roots but leaves the big mature trees around my home un harmed.

tree root killer can kill trees, it happended to a friend, cost him 2000 bucks to remove 2 trees

On Sun, 06 Nov 2016 15:33:48 -0700, Charles Bishop
wrote:

It's a 3" pipe, probably 4' down on average, and you need to get the
pipe out, even if in pieces, and new pipe down (ABS).

How wide would you make the trench, and is there a machine you know of
that would do this work that can be rented?

Oh, there may be sprinkler pipe in the path of the trench.

Is it possible to abandon the OB in place, trench along side and
connect new PVC? Irrigation lines can be fixed rather easily.

In article ,
Oren wrote:

On Sun, 06 Nov 2016 15:33:48 -0700, Charles Bishop
wrote:

It's a 3" pipe, probably 4' down on average, and you need to get the
pipe out, even if in pieces, and new pipe down (ABS).

How wide would you make the trench, and is there a machine you know of
that would do this work that can be rented?

Oh, there may be sprinkler pipe in the path of the trench.

Is it possible to abandon the OB in place, trench along side and
connect new PVC? Irrigation lines can be fixed rather easily.

Hmmm, hadn't thought of that. I assume that since the (N) pipe has to
end up in the same place, the amount of digging (depth) would be the
same (the path is down a slope with about a 4-5' (from memory) drop.

It has to be 6' down at the end to meet the line from the sewer.

I'll ask B&S what specs there are.

--
charles

Charles Bishop writes:

In article ,
Stormin' Norman wrote:

On Sun, 06 Nov 2016 10:58:13 -0500, Dan Espen
wrote:

Charles Bishop writes:

A friend of mine is having sewer pipe problems, with root intrusion and
blockage. The plumber has come out and cleared the blockage. He is now
telling her that a large section of drain pipe (50') should be replace
to prevent future problems.

This section is made of Orangeburg pipe, which, from Google[1], is a
fiber pipe strengthened with pitch. There are small areas of root
intrusion there (shown by camera inspection) but nothing that looks like
full blockage. He is saying that it's not good to use a snake to clean
this pipe of roots since the snake would likely cause damage to the
pipe. He is trying to sell her a more costly solution of lining the pipe
while it's in place.

So, Any thoughts on whether the Orangeburg pipe can be cleaned with a
power snake without damaging it beyond use?

In general, the plumbing supervisor is pointing to doom and desolation
if she doesn't do the work suggested. The total, under his plans would
come to $17,000, though he's willing to "discount" the price for signing
up.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orangeburg_pipe

Thanks for any help.

I'm not a plumber, just a home owner.
If a pipe has roots in it, that's a sign it's not watertight.
The roots will keep coming back, each time quicker and thicker.

I think it would take quite a while for the snake to fully degrade
the pipe, but the roots will degrade the pipe each time they
intrude.

It's not clear to me why 50 feet of pipe would take 17K to
replace or add a liner.
When I had a similar problem with gutter drain pipes,
I dug them up and replaced the bad section. Total cost was the
price of the new pipe.

Of course the gutter pipes were only a few inches down although
I did end up uncovering a part of the system that was 3 feet down.

The liner should be a lot cheaper than replacement.
I'd rather have the pipes replaced because that new PVC stuff
lasts just about forever.

There are chemicals you can pour down the drain that kill
roots. Not good with septic tanks. I like to actually fix
problems, it's part of owning a home, but chemicals would
be way cheaper and might serve as a temporary solution.

Get multiple opinions / estimates. If it must be replaced, save
yourself a bundle of $$, hire some laborers to dig it up. Plumbers
charge you their regular hourly rate for excavation.

If you excavate, buy the pipe, remove the old pipe and simply pay the
plumber to install and connect the new pipe, you should be able to do
it all for $3k - $4k.

More info in another post on the cost, but that price is about what I
thought. The (E) pipe is deep though, roughly 4' on average (3'-6') over
the 50 feet. So, a long, skinny, deep trench - lotsa work?

3ft is about the limit for hand dug trenching.
I just dug one about 30ft long by 2ft deep for a lamp post.
Not real hard. I'm 70, but in unusually good shape.

Yes, read your update post.
The 17K seems reasonable.
Chemicals can put off the time the job needs to be done.

--
Dan Espen

Charles Bishop writes:

No septic tanks. Someone said the chemicals will only kill the roots at
the bottom of the pipe, not the ones near the top. Is this the case?

Flood the pipe when using chemicals.
The roots are looking for water.
If the pipes normally have an inch of water in them
that's where the roots will be.

Someone mentioned that you could kill a tree.
Once or twice a year, I think you're just going to
kill part of the roots. The tree can survive that.

--
Dan Espen

Charles Bishop writes:

The plumber sort of said that snaking would destroy the pipe, and this
shortly after they had snaked the pipe to try to break up the clog. I'm
thinking that along with the technical information she's getting
Salesmanship.

The plumber might have mentioned that the snaking could enlarge the
opening the roots made, just making the problem worse.

Chemicals would create a sort of blockage made of wood in the hole.

--
Dan Espen

Charles Bishop writes:

In article ,
Oren wrote:

On Sun, 06 Nov 2016 15:33:48 -0700, Charles Bishop
wrote:

It's a 3" pipe, probably 4' down on average, and you need to get the
pipe out, even if in pieces, and new pipe down (ABS).

How wide would you make the trench, and is there a machine you know of
that would do this work that can be rented?

Oh, there may be sprinkler pipe in the path of the trench.

Is it possible to abandon the OB in place, trench along side and
connect new PVC? Irrigation lines can be fixed rather easily.

Hmmm, hadn't thought of that. I assume that since the (N) pipe has to
end up in the same place, the amount of digging (depth) would be the
same (the path is down a slope with about a 4-5' (from memory) drop.

It has to be 6' down at the end to meet the line from the sewer.

When I fixed my gutter drain pipe,
I used a snake to get the distance to the blockage,
I only dug out the blocked pipe to the joints,
about 6 or 8 feet of trench.

I used rubber couplings to attach a length of PVC.

--
Dan Espen

On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 6:35:30 PM UTC-5, Charles Bishop wrote:
In article ,
bob haller wrote:

```````````````

My bad line was first discovered perhaps 15 years ago. The line had roots in
all joints, 150 feet or so. They wanted 15 grand to replace the entire line
including under the house/

I had the line snaked, and at most a couple times a year, early spring before
the trees leaf out. dump a 25 pound bag of ROCK SALT in my basement wash tub,
add very hot water, And mix with a shovel

This kills the roots but leaves the big mature trees around my home un
harmed.

I mentioned something like this and was reminded that the salt solution
is on the bottom of the pipe and unlikely to kill roots coming in near
the top.

Any comments?

tree root killer can kill trees, it happended to a friend, cost him 2000
bucks to remove 2 trees

--
charles

well i can report i have a video tape of the roots entering the pipe at every joint. in the 20 years i have been doing this the only problem i had was the one time i got lazy and the line clogged. added salt water and line was open in hours.........

heres a idea just try it, iits not hazardous, and cheap too. just a few bucksfor 25 or 50 pounds.

my theory when you do this, i always use the hottest water possible.


i set the thermostat as hot as it will go.

the hot water with salt enters the line, as a steam cloud like hot shower, so it works on the entire linre........

its cheap enough to just try. most your out is a few bucks for the rock salt

On 11/06/2016 01:51 PM, Charles Bishop wrote:
A friend of mine is having sewer pipe problems, with root intrusion and
blockage. The plumber has come out and cleared the blockage. He is now
telling her that a large section of drain pipe (50') should be replace
to prevent future problems.

This section is made of Orangeburg pipe, which, from Google[1], is a
fiber pipe strengthened with pitch. There are small areas of root
intrusion there (shown by camera inspection) but nothing that looks like
full blockage. He is saying that it's not good to use a snake to clean
this pipe of roots since the snake would likely cause damage to the
pipe. He is trying to sell her a more costly solution of lining the pipe
while it's in place.

So, Any thoughts on whether the Orangeburg pipe can be cleaned with a
power snake without damaging it beyond use?


The problem will only continue to get worse. Either have the pipes replaced with PVC or have the offending trees removed. No trees = no tree roots.

FWIW, I used a Stihl on mine.

On Sun, 06 Nov 2016 15:33:48 -0700, Charles Bishop
wrote:

If it's really as deep as 4-ft, there's some pain indeed, most
residential lines anywhere I've ever seen aren't close to that deep,
however.


Rental places have machines for excavation. You can rent them by the
hour or a full day. That beats hand digging and will still save a lot
compared to having a plumber do it.

It's a 3" pipe, probably 4' down on average, and you need to get the
pipe out, even if in pieces, and new pipe down (ABS).

How wide would you make the trench, and is there a machine you know of
that would do this work that can be rented?

Oh, there may be sprinkler pipe in the path of the trench.

--
harles

The old pipe will come out as you dig, and probably in pieces. That dont
matter, it's junk anyhow.

You need a trench wide enough that you can stand in it to level the base
with hand tools and to stand in it while you glue the new pipes
together. 18" to 24" wide should work. A Backhoe Loader is your best
bet. (See here)
http://www.heavyequipment.com/heavy-...tion-trenching

Call DIGGERS HOTLINE before you dig, to identify any underground pipes,
wires, etc. Look them up in your local phone book.

On 11/6/16 6:51 AM, Charles Bishop wrote:
A friend of mine is having sewer pipe problems, with root intrusion and
blockage. The plumber has come out and cleared the blockage. He is now
telling her that a large section of drain pipe (50') should be replace
to prevent future problems.

This section is made of Orangeburg pipe, which, from Google[1], is a
fiber pipe strengthened with pitch. There are small areas of root
intrusion there (shown by camera inspection) but nothing that looks like
full blockage. He is saying that it's not good to use a snake to clean
this pipe of roots since the snake would likely cause damage to the
pipe. He is trying to sell her a more costly solution of lining the pipe
while it's in place.

So, Any thoughts on whether the Orangeburg pipe can be cleaned with a
power snake without damaging it beyond use?

In general, the plumbing supervisor is pointing to doom and desolation
if she doesn't do the work suggested. The total, under his plans would
come to $17,000, though he's willing to "discount" the price for signing
up.

We have this in my neighborhood, and my neighbors tell me it is between
$5,000 to $8,000 to replace the orangeburg (cleanout to city sewer
line). Takes a couple of days from start to finish.

This is bringing in an excavator and digging it up, I haven't heard of
anyone doing a reline job around here.

Jon

On 11/06/2016 7:42 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
Charles writes:

No septic tanks. Someone said the chemicals will only kill the roots at
the bottom of the pipe, not the ones near the top. Is this the case?

Flood the pipe when using chemicals.
The roots are looking for water.
If the pipes normally have an inch of water in them
that's where the roots will be.

Someone mentioned that you could kill a tree.
Once or twice a year, I think you're just going to
kill part of the roots. The tree can survive that.

This is likely a 4" drain line??? Roots will be all around and through
from any direction is possible/probable; they won't just be located in
one part of the pipe necessarily.

It'll be awfully difficult to pour enough water down the pipe to "flood"
it and if did unless it is blocked or nearly so, the chemicals will just
be flushed straight on through to the main anyway, doing minimal good on
the way.

A regular dosing on a quarterly basis will have a decent chance of
keeping growth from getting out of hand if they're once removed again.

In ,
Charles Bishop typed:
A friend of mine is having sewer pipe problems, with root intrusion
and blockage. The plumber has come out and cleared the blockage. He
is now telling her that a large section of drain pipe (50') should be
replace to prevent future problems.

This section is made of Orangeburg pipe, which, from Google[1], is a
fiber pipe strengthened with pitch. There are small areas of root
intrusion there (shown by camera inspection) but nothing that looks
like full blockage. He is saying that it's not good to use a snake to
clean this pipe of roots since the snake would likely cause damage to
the pipe. He is trying to sell her a more costly solution of lining
the pipe while it's in place.

So, Any thoughts on whether the Orangeburg pipe can be cleaned with a
power snake without damaging it beyond use?

In general, the plumbing supervisor is pointing to doom and desolation
if she doesn't do the work suggested. The total, under his plans would
come to $17,000, though he's willing to "discount" the price for
signing up.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orangeburg_pipe

Thanks for any help.

Another possible option may be to sign up for one of those sewer line
protection plans depending on where he is located. Sometimes they are
offered by water companies such as American Water. I think they cost about
$10/month.

I usually do not sign up for those plans, but I did on just one property
that I have. On all of the other properties, I skipped the plan. The one
property where I signed up for the plan is one with a "problematic" existing
sewer line. By that, I mean that the sewer line runs out to the street
right under a HUGE oak tree and I think it is just a matter of time before I
have a problem and I have to replace the sewer line (even thought it is a
cast iron sewer line). Also, this sewer line apparently has a low spot just
outside of the house but under a slightly raised porch. The line tends to
get backed up once a year or so.

The way that the sewer line protection plan works is that if the line gets
clogged, I can call them and they send someone out to clear the line. The
cost to me is $50 for each such event. That's less than it would cost me to
hire my own person to do it. And, in the past, I often found that I was not
able to clear the line myself even though it has easy access in the
basement. I use one of those 50-foot flat metal drain cleaning tools, not a
rotating "auger"(?) type. I would have to rent one of the rotating auger
machines since it has to reach out to about 40 or 50 feet, and the cost of
renting one is almost the same as the $50 sewer protection line plan cost --
plus I would have to then do the work.

The point is just that for what I call a "problematic" or risky sewer line
that may be susceptible to root intrusions etc, it may be worth signing up
for a sewer line protection plan.

In the event that the sewer line does later need to be replaced, they cover
a lot of the cost up to some maximum amount.

On Monday, November 7, 2016 at 11:01:50 AM UTC-5, TomR wrote:
In ,
Charles Bishop typed:
A friend of mine is having sewer pipe problems, with root intrusion
and blockage. The plumber has come out and cleared the blockage. He
is now telling her that a large section of drain pipe (50') should be
replace to prevent future problems.

This section is made of Orangeburg pipe, which, from Google[1], is a
fiber pipe strengthened with pitch. There are small areas of root
intrusion there (shown by camera inspection) but nothing that looks
like full blockage. He is saying that it's not good to use a snake to
clean this pipe of roots since the snake would likely cause damage to
the pipe. He is trying to sell her a more costly solution of lining
the pipe while it's in place.

So, Any thoughts on whether the Orangeburg pipe can be cleaned with a
power snake without damaging it beyond use?

In general, the plumbing supervisor is pointing to doom and desolation
if she doesn't do the work suggested. The total, under his plans would
come to $17,000, though he's willing to "discount" the price for
signing up.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orangeburg_pipe

Thanks for any help.

Another possible option may be to sign up for one of those sewer line
protection plans depending on where he is located. Sometimes they are
offered by water companies such as American Water. I think they cost about
$10/month.

I usually do not sign up for those plans, but I did on just one property
that I have. On all of the other properties, I skipped the plan. The one
property where I signed up for the plan is one with a "problematic" existing
sewer line. By that, I mean that the sewer line runs out to the street
right under a HUGE oak tree and I think it is just a matter of time before I
have a problem and I have to replace the sewer line (even thought it is a
cast iron sewer line). Also, this sewer line apparently has a low spot just
outside of the house but under a slightly raised porch. The line tends to
get backed up once a year or so.

The way that the sewer line protection plan works is that if the line gets
clogged, I can call them and they send someone out to clear the line. The
cost to me is $50 for each such event. That's less than it would cost me to
hire my own person to do it. And, in the past, I often found that I was not
able to clear the line myself even though it has easy access in the
basement. I use one of those 50-foot flat metal drain cleaning tools, not a
rotating "auger"(?) type. I would have to rent one of the rotating auger
machines since it has to reach out to about 40 or 50 feet, and the cost of
renting one is almost the same as the $50 sewer protection line plan cost --
plus I would have to then do the work.

The point is just that for what I call a "problematic" or risky sewer line
that may be susceptible to root intrusions etc, it may be worth signing up
for a sewer line protection plan.

In the event that the sewer line does later need to be replaced, they cover
a lot of the cost up to some maximum amount.

That's an interesting possibility. Do they require an inspection before
signing you up? Or limit what they pay in the first several years?
Otherwise this sounds like healthcare coverage where you can sign up
anytime and pre-existing conditions are covered, which is a recipe for
disaster for the provider. Either disaster or it would have to cost a
lot to cover the johnny-come-latelys with big problems.

On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 6:33:52 PM UTC-5, Charles Bishop wrote:
It's a 3" pipe, probably 4' down on average, and you need to get the
pipe out, even if in pieces, and new pipe down (ABS).

How wide would you make the trench, and is there a machine you know of
that would do this work that can be rented?

Oh, there may be sprinkler pipe in the path of the trench.

--
harles

My neighbor did this job himself.

He rented this little tiny trailered backhoe. I'd never seen a machine like this. It was basically a seat and a little tiny bucket, no more than six inches wide. It looked like a toy.

It was very slow, I saw him out there working all day running from the house to the street. One of those big construction backhoes could have done the job in an hour, I imagine. But the little one worked fine. It looked like he went down from about two feet at the house to nearly four at the street.

There aren't going to be any roots under the street so I wouldn't worry about that part.

If it's a three inch line, how big will it be after lining? I'd rather just replace it.

On Monday, November 7, 2016 at 11:17:56 AM UTC-5, TimR wrote:
On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 6:33:52 PM UTC-5, Charles Bishop wrote:
It's a 3" pipe, probably 4' down on average, and you need to get the
pipe out, even if in pieces, and new pipe down (ABS).

How wide would you make the trench, and is there a machine you know of
that would do this work that can be rented?

Oh, there may be sprinkler pipe in the path of the trench.

--
harles

My neighbor did this job himself.

He rented this little tiny trailered backhoe. I'd never seen a machine like this. It was basically a seat and a little tiny bucket, no more than six inches wide. It looked like a toy.

It was very slow, I saw him out there working all day running from the house to the street. One of those big construction backhoes could have done the job in an hour, I imagine. But the little one worked fine. It looked like he went down from about two feet at the house to nearly four at the street.

There aren't going to be any roots under the street so I wouldn't worry about that part.

If it's a three inch line, how big will it be after lining? I'd rather just replace it.

Google "towable mini backhoe."

You could buy one cheaper than paying $17k.

http://www.harborfreight.com/towable...her-62365.html

In ,
trader_4 typed:
On Monday, November 7, 2016 at 11:01:50 AM UTC-5, TomR wrote:
In ,
Charles Bishop typed:
A friend of mine is having sewer pipe problems, with root intrusion
and blockage. . . . . ,

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orangeburg_pipe

Another possible option may be to sign up for one of those sewer line
protection plans depending on where he is located. Sometimes they
are offered by water companies such as American Water. I think they
cost about $10/month. . . . ,

That's an interesting possibility. Do they require an inspection
before signing you up? Or limit what they pay in the first several
years? Otherwise this sounds like healthcare coverage where you can
sign up anytime and pre-existing conditions are covered, which is a
recipe for disaster for the provider. Either disaster or it would
have to cost a lot to cover the johnny-come-latelys with big problems.

I wondered the same thing when I signed up, but I didn't ask any questions.
I just went ahead and signed up. They didn't ask me any questions.

I think the plan is worded that it doesn't start or take effect until 30
days after the sign-up. I assume that is to prevent people from signing up
one day and then using the plan a few days later to correct an existing
problem. I thought that I had remembered the plan saying something about
pre-existing conditions (not sure), but on a quick look, I couldn't find
that wording in the "Terms and Conditions" for my plan.

In my case, I think the plan is worthwhile even if somehow they were to try
to deny me coverage later on regarding a complete replacement of the sewer
line due to an alleged pre-existing condition or whatever. But, that's only
because I encounter clogs frequently enough (maybe once a year or so) to
make the $50 fee per unclog episode worthwhile. Plus, it is not an
owner-occupied property, so I like the fact that I already have a company
lined up to take care of the problem for me if the occupants call me with a
clogged sewer line.

And, to be honest, I think the sewer line protection plan company would have
a hard time denying me coverage now for an alleged pre-existing condition
because I have had the plan for 2-plus years already.

For the OP, his line is clear now and it is working. So, my guess is that
if he signs up now, he will be covered in the future despite whatever type
of sewer line he has now and whatever the current condition of the line is
regarding the root issue or whatever. If I had what he has, I would just
sign up for the plan quick, fast, and in a hurry. My guess is that he
already paid way more than 50 bucks to his plumber to get his sewer line
unclogged this time around. And, I assume that the roots will do their
thing again, and maybe even within the next 12 months. If that happens, he
will have paid about 130 bucks for the plan for the first year (mine is
$10.70 per month). And, I assume that's about what he had to pay the
plumber for this unclog job, if not more.

My plan is through American Water. Here are some links to info about my
plan, but I think the plans may vary by location, company, etc.
http://www.awrusa.com/american-water...ne-Protection/

http://awrusa.com/american-water-res...rms/terms.aspx

http://awrusa.com/files/AWR%20SLPP%2...LP1015L_V4.pdf

In ,
Charles Bishop typed:
A friend of mine is having sewer pipe problems, with root intrusion
and blockage. The plumber has come out and cleared the blockage. He
is now telling her that a large section of drain pipe (50') should be
replace to prevent future problems.

This section is made of Orangeburg pipe, which, from Google[1], is a
fiber pipe strengthened with pitch. There are small areas of root
intrusion there (shown by camera inspection) but nothing that looks
like full blockage. He is saying that it's not good to use a snake to
clean this pipe of roots since the snake would likely cause damage to
the pipe. He is trying to sell her a more costly solution of lining
the pipe while it's in place.

So, Any thoughts on whether the Orangeburg pipe can be cleaned with a
power snake without damaging it beyond use?

In general, the plumbing supervisor is pointing to doom and desolation
if she doesn't do the work suggested. The total, under his plans would
come to $17,000, though he's willing to "discount" the price for
signing up.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orangeburg_pipe

I previously posted another option -- a sewer line protection plan.

Or, as an alternative, maybe do the following (although I would sign up for
the sewer line protection plan first and do this a month or two later):

Have a company come out that does sewer line video inspections and make a
complete video (that you keep) of the entire sewer line.

You may have to do a little research to find a company that doesn't
overcharge for that video service. In my area, the is a company that
advertises that they do low-cost sewer line videos.

From that, determine where any problems may currently exist in the line.

Then think about only replacing the part of the line that is closest to the
house (and not very deep) and go out a certain distance and connect up with
the existing line. Connect up with the existing before you get to the
street so you don't have the expense of digging up the street etc. And, as
someone else suggested, there probably won't be any roots under the street
(depending on where the trees are etc).

There is the issue regarding digging as to where the "offending" trees
and/or bushes are located. If they are over the sewer line, it may be hard
to dig in that area due to the roots.

In article ,
Charles Bishop wrote:

A friend of mine is having sewer pipe problems, with root intrusion and
blockage. The plumber has come out and cleared the blockage. He is now
telling her that a large section of drain pipe (50') should be replace
to prevent future problems.

This section is made of Orangeburg pipe, which, from Google[1], is a
fiber pipe strengthened with pitch. There are small areas of root
intrusion there (shown by camera inspection) but nothing that looks like
full blockage. He is saying that it's not good to use a snake to clean
this pipe of roots since the snake would likely cause damage to the
pipe. He is trying to sell her a more costly solution of lining the pipe
while it's in place.

[snip]

Followup - A Thrilling Saga

Well, the work is almost done, but there were delays here and there as
new evidence came to light. Here's a brief list of what happened and was
done.

1. There was a blockage in the sewer line, and "stuff" backflowed into
the shower when the toilet was flushed and plumged.

2. Plumber called - Plumber 1

3. Plumber 1 found a cleanout in the front yard, and water came pouring
out when the plug was removed. Deduced that the plug was downstream of
that, and he tried to snake it, with no success. He said his snake head
was catching on joints in the pipe. No charge for this.

4. Plumber 2 - He also couldn't snake the line, but was able to use a
jetter (high pressure water) to clear the blockage. He inspected the
line with a camera and showed the homeowner many areas where there were
roots coming into the pipe. He suggested opening up the line at the curb
and checkin there as well.

4.1 Opened a 4 by 4 by 6' hole and found clay pipe (ABS at the
house) and broke it open and found an additional clog or two. He had a
proposal, in three, parts 1) Replace the Orangeburg pipe in the ground
from the street to the house, 2) line the pipe from the curb to the
main, and then replace the cast iron drains in the crawlspace under the
house. All for $15K to $17K.

4.2 Homeowner took some time to look over the proposal and talk to
others. Had decided to only replace the Orangeburg pipe between the
house and street.

4.3 Plumber 3 gave a quote of $2000, if someone dug the hole at the
cleanout at the house. (The homeowner would still have to pay Plumber 2
the $3800 for the work they did, hole and curb, camera work, &c).

4.3.1 I dug the hole 4 by 4 by ~3 to show the drain from the
house, the cleanout tee and the drain away from the house. It turns out
that all of this pipe is ABS, no Orangeburg to be seen, to where it
joins the clay pipe from the curb to the street. So, Plumber 2 was
mistaken when he said there was Orangeburg pipe there.

There never was any Orangeburg pipe there. The original line was clay,
and this was bypassed some while back by a homeowner who installed the
ABS from just outside the house to the curb.

I think lying might be close to what he was doing since
he was a very high pressure salesman, bobbing and weaving when asked
questions, with every question answered with, "but you'll have new pipe"
and you should do it.

5. Plumber 3 was a little disappointed to learn that he wouldn't have
to do the work but was helpful anyway, and ran a camera where Plumber 2
did, and didn't see any roots in the lines where Plumber 2 said there
were some (In the ABS you wouldn't think to see any)

6. Plumber 2 now has to repair the clay pipe broken to allow access
to the street pipe (He saw lots of roots there and kept insisting that
it needed to have a liner put in),add a cleanout for future work, and
backfill the hole. The homeowner has yet to talk to him to discuss this
change in plans, so that should be interesting as well.

It cost more than she hoped, but less than it could have been if she had
listened to the Plumber 2.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions - it was a learning opportunity
since I haven't worked with drain lines for a while.

The cameras are cool.

--
charles

In article ,
TimR wrote:

On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 6:33:52 PM UTC-5, Charles Bishop wrote:
It's a 3" pipe, probably 4' down on average, and you need to get the
pipe out, even if in pieces, and new pipe down (ABS).

How wide would you make the trench, and is there a machine you know of
that would do this work that can be rented?

Oh, there may be sprinkler pipe in the path of the trench.

--
harles

My neighbor did this job himself.

He rented this little tiny trailered backhoe. I'd never seen a machine like
this. It was basically a seat and a little tiny bucket, no more than six
inches wide. It looked like a toy.

It was very slow, I saw him out there working all day running from the house
to the street. One of those big construction backhoes could have done the
job in an hour, I imagine. But the little one worked fine. It looked like
he went down from about two feet at the house to nearly four at the street.

There aren't going to be any roots under the street so I wouldn't worry about
that part.

There were and are roots in the pipe under the street - the lateral from
the main line is clay, and roots are there. In this city, the homeowner
is responsible for the lateral and if there is a problem that needs to
have the street torn up for access, the owner pays for this.

[snip]

Charles