Found a alternative to wax seals at home depot that seems to be designed
to meet my needs -- looking to see if anyone has had good/bad
experiences with this.

From the manufacturers web site:
http://www.fernco.com/fts.html

This appears to meet my needs because I am raising the floor 5/8" and
this states "seals on raised floors, wood, tile, linoleum, and carpet"
and "no need for flange risers or stacked wax rings".

Thanks in advance!
Alan

stacked rings work, and only time will tell if the new fangled crap
does.

AAB wrote:
Found a alternative to wax seals at home depot that seems to be
designed to meet my needs -- looking to see if anyone has had good/bad
experiences with this.

From the manufacturers web site:
http://www.fernco.com/fts.html

This appears to meet my needs because I am raising the floor 5/8" and
this states "seals on raised floors, wood, tile, linoleum, and carpet"
and "no need for flange risers or stacked wax rings".

Thanks in advance!
Alan

I've been using one for several years with no problems or seepage. In the
past I had to screw around with stacked rings, and still couldn't get a good
seal, requiring a couple of trips to the hardware store. (I probably was
doing something wrong with the stacked rings, or purchased the wrong one.)

I did ask a plumber who was doing some work in an office building for his
thoughts on them. He felt the old wax rings worked fine, why switch when an
existing technology has a good track record.

I'm sure you will get a variety of responses on this.

Bob.

Thanks Bob
I've tried the stacked wax ring thing also and it worked but I never
felt very good about it. I am not a professional, if I used wax on a
daily or weekly basis I am sure I would feel more comfortable and I do
understand the pros who say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Thanks
for letting me know it is working for you so far. The earlier response
(thanks for that one also) makes a good point about not knowing its
longevity until they have been installed for 10+ years. If I don't get
any real negative responses I think I'll give it a try. Seems like it
should work and its not too big of a risk in this location.
Alan

Bob wrote:
AAB wrote:

Found a alternative to wax seals at home depot that seems to be
designed to meet my needs -- looking to see if anyone has had good/bad
experiences with this.

From the manufacturers web site:
http://www.fernco.com/fts.html

This appears to meet my needs because I am raising the floor 5/8" and
this states "seals on raised floors, wood, tile, linoleum, and carpet"
and "no need for flange risers or stacked wax rings".

Thanks in advance!
Alan


I've been using one for several years with no problems or seepage. In the
past I had to screw around with stacked rings, and still couldn't get a good
seal, requiring a couple of trips to the hardware store. (I probably was
doing something wrong with the stacked rings, or purchased the wrong one.)

I did ask a plumber who was doing some work in an office building for his
thoughts on them. He felt the old wax rings worked fine, why switch when an
existing technology has a good track record.

I'm sure you will get a variety of responses on this.

Bob.

Wax seals last, well forever as far as I can tell.

This new product is SOOOOOO good the manufacturer relieves itself of all
responsibility after all of 1 year.

HA HA Budys Here wrote:
Wax seals last, well forever as far as I can tell.

This new product is SOOOOOO good the manufacturer relieves itself of
all responsibility after all of 1 year.

Good point. The one I used was from Fluidmaster, purchased from a local ACE
hardware.

http://www.fluidmaster.com/connect_products_7500.html

Not sure why my wax ring(s) would start to seep - the bowl might have worked
it's way loose so it rocked a slight bit, breaking the seal. I think the
original wax ring from when the toilet was installed lasted a good 10+ years
before it started to leak; the next one, about 6 years or so.

It was after two trips to ACE with various wax rings that I couldn't get to
seal that pushed me to try the new fangled gasket. It's been 3 or 4 years,
with no seepage, so far.

Bob.

AAB wrote:

From the manufacturers web site:
http://www.fernco.com/fts.html

Fernco has been in the waste plumbing adapter business for a long time,
it is likely to be a good product, if used appropriately, the company
has a good rep in the biz.

Good point. I would throw in that warranty time is vastly different
that MTBF. Wax rings I am sure last practically forever if the toilet
is stable but I'd be surprised to see a 10 year warranty on one. The
main point I guess is that it is unproven. 20 years from now everyone
or no one may be using them.
Thanks for the input, its something to consider.
Alan

HA HA Budys Here wrote:

Wax seals last, well forever as far as I can tell.

This new product is SOOOOOO good the manufacturer relieves itself of all
responsibility after all of 1 year.

Can't argue the point - that is exactly why I am considering it. Cheap
isn't an issue, I have only the one toilet to repair (its only $5).
Pros, of course, would have to consider that.
Thanks
Alan

wrote:



Wax rings (even stacked) are cheap and proven. No alternative is needed. They
are preying on your insecurities.

BB

I disagree.

I just experienced for the second time a failure of the wax ring at the base
of the toilet.

Both times I was plunging like crazy (low flow toilet woes) and the seal
ruptured. This caused a flood of crappy water through the ceiling and
walls. You don't want to go there!

I too bought one but couldn't use it because it was for 3" pipe and HD
didn't have the 4". But I'll look for that one in the future, now that I
know it exists.

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 21:02:17 GMT, AAB wrote:

Found a alternative to wax seals at home depot that seems to be designed
to meet my needs -- looking to see if anyone has had good/bad
experiences with this.

From the manufacturers web site:
http://www.fernco.com/fts.html

This appears to meet my needs because I am raising the floor 5/8" and
this states "seals on raised floors, wood, tile, linoleum, and carpet"
and "no need for flange risers or stacked wax rings".

Thanks in advance!
Alan

Wax rings (even stacked) are cheap and proven. No alternative is needed.
They
are preying on your insecurities.

BB

Doubt it. Otherwise we could just use rags stuffed in there.

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:30:11 -0500, "Betsy" -0 wrote:

I disagree.

I just experienced for the second time a failure of the wax ring at the
base
of the toilet.

Both times I was plunging like crazy (low flow toilet woes) and the seal
ruptured. This caused a flood of crappy water through the ceiling and
walls. You don't want to go there!


The wax ring is not there to block water. It is to seal against gases.

BB

This thread is a great application of the axiom "If it ain't broke, don't
fix it!" Wax seals are simple, cheap and effective. Why "improve" them?


"John Hines" wrote in message
...
AAB wrote:

From the manufacturers web site:
http://www.fernco.com/fts.html

Fernco has been in the waste plumbing adapter business for a long time,
it is likely to be a good product, if used appropriately, the company
has a good rep in the biz.

- AAB or Alan -
Can't argue the point - that is exactly why I am considering it.
Cheap
isn't an issue, I have only the one toilet to repair (its only $5).
Pros, of course, would have to consider that.

- Nehmo -
The new product is superior to a wax ring. It's easy to use, fast, not
messy, and is forgiving of a small positional error. If you have to take
up the stool and put it back, you don't need to get a new ring.

I've used the wax rings plenty of times. I won't use one again unless
the new thing is unavailable.


--
*********************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
*********************

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:51:13 GMT, wrote:

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:10:02 -0500, "Betsy" -0 wrote:

Doubt it. Otherwise we could just use rags stuffed in there.


Incorrect. You could not get a gas tight seal. It is also a moist environment
where cloth would decompose. The wax ring is not there for blocking water. If
you understood the configuration of a toilet and how it works, you would know
that. It's not at all complicated.

So maybe you can explain to everyone why water leakage occures when a
wax ring fails?

On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:30:11 -0500, "Betsy" -0 wrote:

I disagree.

I just experienced for the second time a failure of the wax ring at the base
of the toilet.

Both times I was plunging like crazy (low flow toilet woes) and the seal
ruptured. This caused a flood of crappy water through the ceiling and
walls. You don't want to go there!

I too bought one but couldn't use it because it was for 3" pipe and HD
didn't have the 4". But I'll look for that one in the future, now that I
know it exists.


I installed one on my last bathroon remodel. It's easy to install and
will compensate for different floor heights. Considering it's a pvc
type of plastic with neoprene o-rings to seal out gases and a forming
gasket to prevent spash back, I can't see any reason why it would fail
in 10 years. Another nice thing is that it's reusable. If you have
to lift the toilet for any reason you're not stuck having to go out
and buy another wax ring and scraping all the old crap off.
I'm in the process of remodeling another one of my bathrooms right now
and it will also get the wax free kit.

The kit I bought from Menards included a separate housing for 4" pipe
if needed. I think I paid only $6.00 for the kit.

George

"Dick Smyth" wrote:

This thread is a great application of the axiom "If it ain't broke, don't
fix it!" Wax seals are simple, cheap and effective. Why "improve" them?

Old rusty iron closet flanges.

Same reason wax rings also come with a plastic sleeve version.

Not everything in remodeling work is "simple".

"Dick Smyth" wrote in message
...
This thread is a great application of the axiom "If it ain't broke, don't
fix it!" Wax seals are simple, cheap and effective. Why "improve" them?



That philosphy brought GM's US market share from 60% down to 28%.

I remodeled my bathroom, the waxless toilet seals work better that the
wasx. Wax is OLD science, it works but not for long, the rubber
flange is a better design. Its evolution!

-Paul

AAB wrote:

Found a alternative to wax seals at home depot that seems to be designed
to meet my needs -- looking to see if anyone has had good/bad
experiences with this.

From the manufacturers web site:
http://www.fernco.com/fts.html

This appears to meet my needs because I am raising the floor 5/8" and
this states "seals on raised floors, wood, tile, linoleum, and carpet"
and "no need for flange risers or stacked wax rings".

Thanks in advance!
Alan

I have no experience with the alternative, but you might consider the
following:

http://www.plumbingstore.com/toiletrings.html

Here's an excerpt:

QUESTION: "On my regular toilet I've replaced the 'bad' wax gaskets a
few times and my toilet still leaks!!??"

ANSWER: Generally wax doesn't "go bad" on a standard floor-mounted
toilet, as its function is not to prevent leaks. Wax on a floor-mounted
toilet is there to prevent odors. If you are experiencing a leak coming
from underneath the floor-mounted toilet, you probably have a partial
(or full blown) toilet stoppage down the drain line (or the toilet is
cracked in the bowl). Also, make sure the leak isn't coming from above
and dribbling down the back of the toilet, as this is a "typical"
undetected problem. If you aren't sure where the leak is coming, from
try putting a few drops of food coloring in the tank and waiting a few
hours.


QUESTION: "I've seen expensive, sliding type of flanges/gaskets that
attach to the bottom of a toilet and then slide into the drain. What's
your opinion of them?"

ANSWER: We don't wish to offer them (although we certainly would make
more profit doing so) because: 1) They are much more complicated than a
simple wax or sponge ring. 2) The toilet bowl must be totally. perfectly
clean and spotless. That is never the case with a used toilet and even
with a new toilet a lot of times it will have some grease or dirt on
them. The toilet bowl must be cleaned very well. 3) The water closet
flange, by design, tends to be more susceptible to damage during
construction and the basic wax, wax with gasket and sponge take up most
problem flanges while many of the "new" type (read "expensive") toilet
to flange connectors need to generally have a "perfect" flange and a
"perfect" toilet bowl. 4) If a toilet flange is leaking the problem
needs to be addressed. That problem is not the wax or sponge. We see it
as a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and so, we prefer to pass
on offering these "new" type of connectors. We strive for total customer
satisfaction and our fear is that installing these new connectors will
produce a lot of frustration.