"rb608" wrote in message ...
"Larry Bud" wrote in message
Fine. I want you to stop driving your car because I am forced to
breath the toxins it produces. See how ridiculous this is now?

AAMOF, it's not the least bit ridiculous. The government already *does*
recognize the dangers my car imposes on you and already *does* require
anti-pollution measures on me if I wish to use my vehicle. By making that
analogy, I assume you're prepared to accept the government's authority to
also impose restrictions on smokers?

No, I'm not begging the government to do it, I want you to move out of
the area so I don't breath ANY of it. Stop driving now. I didn't say
reduce, I said stop.

"Bob" wrote in message news:kTGNb.76478$8H.114221@attbi_s03...
"Larry Bud" wrote in message
Which includes smokers. They have a responsibility not to
impose
their dangerous and unpleasant addiction on those around
them.

Fine. I want you to stop driving your car because I am forced
to
breath the toxins it produces.

If I am injecting those toxins into your home, I guess you have a
case. I'm sure, in that case, that the authorities would quickly
stop me.

You are injecting them. Houses aren't sealed environments. You're
imposing your dangerous fumes from your vehicle upon me.

(m Ransley) wrote in message ...
Seal your electrical outlets and any holes around plumbing, Jute
catpet pad will let vapor through, Use plastic sheet under your padding

And one thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post is that much of
the smoke smell could be coming from your bathroom vent fan. Some of
the construction uses a common duct that allows air to backup into
your unit. They have a rubber flapper valve that supposed to close
when your vent fan is not on, but sometimes it leaks. You can either
work on that or block the vent, which causes other problems.

"Des Perado" wrote

If it is at all possible for you to move into a freestanding house, that
is
what I would do.
Everyone I have ever known who lived in CONDO type housing was bothered by
something or other over which they had little or no control.
Des

I agree. I lived in an apartment building once and had an Indian couple
across the hall. Nice people but I couldn't handle the smell of their
cooking. I was always the same, day in and day out. I would have gladly
swapped them for a smoker.

Its warm in California. Could you suck fresh air from outside using a
powered vent inside to create a slight positive pressure in your condo? If
you use some sort of air freshner also, maybe the reverse flow will make the
smokers condo smell like flowers. Hey, I wonder how long it would take them
to knock on your door...? I'd say the real concern is the health risk of
second hand smoke...
"CBhvac" stephenaddressscfrewedonpurpose@carolinabreezehva c.com wrote in
message ...

"Sue Ann" wrote in message
...
....and I can't stand it. We have common hot water baseboard heat and I
have caulked around all water pipes. There's no insulation between the
ceiling of the condo below and my hardwood floors which are covered with
wall-to-wall carpeting.
Crazy idea: Taking up the carpet and putting a layer of Tyvek under the
padding? What do you think?
Any other ideas?
Thanks in advance.........


Move. If its like most condos, particularly in CA, you cant stop it since
you wont pull all the walls down and seal the 4 inch space between the
floor
and outer wall....any and all electrical conduits, AC lines that may be
there, plumbing...etc...

As a smoker, the worst thing you could do would be to ask the person that
lives below you to stop..particularly if you own the units.
You might find that the Cigar of the Month club suddenly starts to meet
there....every week.

"Bob" wrote in message
news:0xyNb.75162$na.42483@attbi_s04...

"EvoDawg" wrote in message
news:Q4qNb.15092
Something has gone terribly wrong already in this country. It's
called
rights and personal freedoms.

Like the right to breath air that doesn't gag you in your own
home?

Bob




Nah...that cant be, too many people still live in CA...

"Larry Bud" wrote in message
You are injecting them. Houses aren't sealed environments.
You're
imposing your dangerous fumes from your vehicle upon me.

OK. How many miles a year do you drive. I bet it's a lot more
than I do. We can make adjustments on that basis.

Bob

"HA HA Budys Here" wrote in message
They're not if they're doing it inside their own domocile. It's
not the
smoker's fault the condos arent airtight against each other.

And so, by your thinking, non-smokers have to assume the cost of
protecting themselves from the smokers exhaust.

I would have to disagree. The smokers cause the problem. It is
their problem.Sure, they can smoke all they want - as long as
they keep their exhaust to themselves.

Bob

"Bob" wrote in message news:q6JOb.84764$nt4.129081@attbi_s51...
"HA HA Budys Here" wrote in message
They're not if they're doing it inside their own domocile. It's
not the
smoker's fault the condos arent airtight against each other.

And so, by your thinking, non-smokers have to assume the cost of
protecting themselves from the smokers exhaust.

I would have to disagree. The smokers cause the problem. It is
their problem.Sure, they can smoke all they want - as long as
they keep their exhaust to themselves.

And by your thinking, when you stop spewing toxins into the air with
your car, you can drive all you want. Until then...

Don't you understand how ridiculous this is?

"Halvey" wrote in message
...
I think if you can prove that the smoke wafts into your condo at a
certain rate (once a day, once a week, etc) you can get a court
injunction against your neighbor smoking.

Yes, in California I'm pretty sure you could, so I guess you have to balance
the benefits of being in a smoke free environment with sharing walls and
common ownership with people who you've made into enemies.

Have you tried talking to them for starters? I'm a smoker, and I really do
respect the rights of others to not breath my smoke. I quit for years
because it bothered my daughter.

Something I've learned over the years is that often the most reasonable
solution is to just state your issues and your willingness find an amiable
way to solve the problem. Believe it or not, an attorney taught me that!
He said he's constantly amazed that it's so often the last thing people
think to do.

Good luck. I do believe the law in California is on your side if you choose
to go that route.

ZsaZsa


Sue Ann wrote:
....and I can't stand it. We have common hot water baseboard heat and I
have caulked around all water pipes. There's no insulation between the
ceiling of the condo below and my hardwood floors which are covered with
wall-to-wall carpeting.
Crazy idea: Taking up the carpet and putting a layer of Tyvek under the
padding? What do you think?
Any other ideas?
Thanks in advance.........

"CBhvac" stephenaddressscfrewedonpurpose@carolinabreezehva c.com wrote in
message ...

"Halvey" wrote in message
...
I think if you can prove that the smoke wafts into your condo at a
certain rate (once a day, once a week, etc) you can get a court
injunction against your neighbor smoking.

h

And then, if the smoker was not willing to tolerate that, one could argue
that if they were there first, that the act of smoking is a part of their
daily lives, and should the person above them wish to be smoke free, that
they move, and pay court costs for the first injunction and the second
counter suit, since the adiction to a legal product and the injunction
against a normal daily activity has violated their rights...yea..I can see
this in a state like CA...
In order for that to hold, one would have to have a court make smokes
illegal....I would think....and thats not going to happen...if it does,
banning smoking in your own home, then somethings gone terribly wrong in
this country.

California has amazingly strict laws against smoking.

When I worked in an office I wasn't even allowed to legally smoke outside
within so many feet of the building lest my offensive smoke waft into
someone's window.

Smokers have no rights in California that I know of, not even the right to
smoke in their own homes if someone claims they can even smell it.

"rb608" wrote in message
...

"Sue Ann" wrote in message
...
....and I can't stand it. We have common hot water baseboard heat and I
have caulked around all water pipes. There's no insulation between the
ceiling of the condo below and my hardwood floors which are covered with
wall-to-wall carpeting.
Crazy idea: Taking up the carpet and putting a layer of Tyvek under the
padding? What do you think?
Any other ideas?

Let's assume a polite request to the unit below would be fruitless, even
if
you offered to pay for their Nicoderm.

Forget the personal comfort and convenience angle. Because it's a condo,
everyone has a common interest in the safety of the buildings. I'd say
take
it up with the condo association and make an attempt to have the entire
community smoke free. Not for your personal satisfaction, of course, but
to
reduce the fire hazard. Lower the insurance premiums. When there's money
involved, people pay attention. If the non-smokers outnumber the smokers,
you have a shot. If there are more smokers than non-smokers, I'd say you
may as well just move.

Oh boy, yet another power to give to a condo association! Talk about
legalized fascism.

The thing is that I don't think that in California an HOA has the power to
make any rules that could impact on the value or saleability of the members
property.

A non-smoking condo development would restrict sales to non-smokers and
thereby limit the potential to sell.

Of course, the case could be made that a non-smoking development would be an
added value, but someone would have to prove that statistically, and I don't
know how they would do it.

IMO, if one must participate in an HOA, the best idea is to limit it's
powers, not grant it more. HOAs do not exist for the benefit of the owners,
they were created to protect the developers.

"Sue Ann" wrote in message
...
Good grief! Personally, I believe people have the right to smoke in
their own spaces. I just want to keep the smoke and smell out of mine.

While you have had fun all day with political jousting, I've been on the
phone calling around. I did find some new upscale carpet padding which
has a solid vinyl barrier top and bottom. That should help a little
bit.

There's really no economically feasible way to retrofit this 1958
building. It met construction codes of that era.

To those of you who mentioned positive air pressure -- you're absolutely
right. But what do you do on a frigid night like this one?

So, whether you love Rush or Hillary, keep up the good fight. Stay warm
tonight with someone you love.

And I always enjoy this group, no matter what.

Sue Ann

I really respect your way of responding to your problem Sue Ann. If your
neighbors are as reasonable as you are, maybe you could get them involved in
solving the problem too. I would if it were me and I knew my smoke was
validly bothering someone else.

It's true that shared wall living is rife with potential problems but the
upside is when everyone cooperates. I lived in a condo where I had
neighbors like that, and even though I'm now in a free standing house twice
the size, I'd move back to be with my old neighbors again in a heartbeat.
They were the best. I had no idea what I was losing by moving on up!!

"Bob" wrote in message
news:q6JOb.84764$nt4.129081@attbi_s51...

"HA HA Budys Here" wrote in message
They're not if they're doing it inside their own domocile. It's
not the
smoker's fault the condos arent airtight against each other.

And so, by your thinking, non-smokers have to assume the cost of
protecting themselves from the smokers exhaust.

I would have to disagree. The smokers cause the problem. It is
their problem.Sure, they can smoke all they want - as long as
they keep their exhaust to themselves.

The problem with that is what does it mean to keep our smoke to ourselves?
Some people object to even seeing someone smoking, and legal cases have been
won against smokers on some pretty thin complaints.

I'm trying to find the case that made the news in CA a few years ago where
the judge ruled that if the neighbor could even smell the smoke there was a
violation of the law.

As I recall, it boiled down to a ruling that allowed the complainant to
simply claim that they could smell smoke and the smoker would be fined
and/or eventually evicted.

Here's an interesting website on the topic:
http://www.pacificnet.net/~safe/apt1.html#anchor98592

ZsaZsa

And so, by your thinking, non-smokers have to assume the cost of
protecting themselves from the smokers exhaust.

I would have to disagree. The smokers cause the problem. It is
their problem.Sure, they can smoke all they want - as long as
they keep their exhaust to themselves.

The general case is, anyone with an unusual sensitivity to
the effects of normal activities of the rest of the world should
be expected to bear the costs of dealing with that sensitivity.

This includes people hypersensitive to tiny amounts of smoke,
people who work nights and sleep during the day who hate
noise, and people who are so allergic to peanuts that
open a jar of peanut butter in the same building as them
causes them to choke up and die.

In this specific case, OP has a defective condo, and it's
up to them to deal with the the consequences of that.

--Goedjn

"ZsaZsa" wrote in message news:MQUOb.244708
Have you tried talking to them for starters? I'm a smoker, and
I really do
respect the rights of others to not breath my smoke. I quit
for years
because it bothered my daughter.

Something I've learned over the years is that often the most
reasonable
solution is to just state your issues and your willingness find
an amiable
way to solve the problem.

I sure wish all smokers were like you. The few times I've
informed smokers that their smoke was bothering me, I've been
basically told where to go, and my request ignored.

Bob

"Bob" wrote in message
news:Ym1Pb.103425$xy6.213549@attbi_s02...

"ZsaZsa" wrote in message news:MQUOb.244708
Have you tried talking to them for starters? I'm a smoker, and
I really do
respect the rights of others to not breath my smoke. I quit
for years
because it bothered my daughter.

Something I've learned over the years is that often the most
reasonable
solution is to just state your issues and your willingness find
an amiable
way to solve the problem.

I sure wish all smokers were like you. The few times I've
informed smokers that their smoke was bothering me, I've been
basically told where to go, and my request ignored.

Bob

I'm an off and on again smoker, and even when I smoke, other people's smoke
often bothers me too, especially in restaurants, so I kind of straddle both
sides of the fence.

It is rude to puff in people's faces though, just as it is to act all smug
and self righteous at the very sight of a cigarette. There are extremes on
both sides of the issue.

The same thing happened at the 4-plex condo where I used to live. My
neighbor, whose wife has severe asthma, was determined to blame somebody in
my unit for smoking and for the smell of it filtering through our paper-thin
walls. One day, the couple came over to complain AGAIN and the wife suddenly
looked at her husband with astonishment, commenting a few moments later that
she couldn't smell anything in my unit to indicate anybody even smoked there
(true!). This being the case, her hubby persisted in finding out why they
still smelled so much smoke all the time. He finally discovered the source.
He removed the bathroom medicine cabinet and discovered that the area behind
it was wide open, with no insulation behind it to block anything (smells or
smoke) from other units. He packed the whole area with the thickest
insulation he could find and their problem was solved!


"Noggin" wrote in message
r.com...

"Bob" wrote in message
news:Ym1Pb.103425$xy6.213549@attbi_s02...

"ZsaZsa" wrote in message news:MQUOb.244708
Have you tried talking to them for starters? I'm a smoker, and
I really do
respect the rights of others to not breath my smoke. I quit
for years
because it bothered my daughter.

Something I've learned over the years is that often the most
reasonable
solution is to just state your issues and your willingness find
an amiable
way to solve the problem.

I sure wish all smokers were like you. The few times I've
informed smokers that their smoke was bothering me, I've been
basically told where to go, and my request ignored.

Bob

I'm an off and on again smoker, and even when I smoke, other people's
smoke
often bothers me too, especially in restaurants, so I kind of straddle
both
sides of the fence.

It is rude to puff in people's faces though, just as it is to act all smug
and self righteous at the very sight of a cigarette. There are extremes
on
both sides of the issue.