hey all, i've been having a problem for a while in the winters with
condensation forming on the windows. i had wood double hung windows with
triple track storm windows which i replaced this spring w/ a very good vinyl
replacement window. and just recently re-sided w/ a layer of 1/2" foam and
vinyl siding. we've had a few nights dip into the mid to lower 30's and now
in the morning condensation on the windows. we keep a dehumidifyer in the
basement and the humidity level down there is usually about 47% at about 65
degrees F. up stairs (it's a 1,400 sqft. ranch) where we are having the
problem the humidity level is just about the same but can range from 45%-57%
and the them usually goes no lower than 63 degrees F in the house. there is
never condensation on the basement windows. once the temp outside warms up
and the heat in the house gets going the condensation will dry up after i
wipe most of it away. the thermostat for the house is set to 68 degrees
during the day and 63 at night. when we first bought the house i added more
insulation to the attic, hoping that i could solve the problem but it didn't
help and i hoped that with the new windows it would solve the problem
peroid, but it hasn't. any help would be appreciated.


mike.......

You added insulation and windows to fix a humidity problem? That would
only increase it. Are you sure you have a good humidistat, calibrated,
they should be calibrated every few years. Most purchased are way off. I
just bought a taylor, its 15% off. Take a moist rag wrap around
humidistat for 30 min it should read 94 to 96 , recalibrate if it
doesnt.
Did you put foam sheet insulation, does your house have tyvek . do you
have a condensing furnace. Your house isnt breathing enough its to
tight, you should get a blower door test, infiltration, test. You
probably need an air exchanger to move fresh air. Your new windows,
what brand , low e , argon, dual pane do you vent cooking and showers
outdoors, For now open a few windows, air it out see how low humidity
goes, leave a few cracked open see how much of a difference it makes
Find your true humidity, and get some testing done on air exchange.

"mark Ransley" wrote in message
...
You added insulation and windows to fix a humidity problem? That would
only increase it. Are you sure you have a good humidistat, calibrated,
they should be calibrated every few years. Most purchased are way off. I
just bought a taylor, its 15% off. Take a moist rag wrap around
humidistat for 30 min it should read 94 to 96 , recalibrate if it
doesnt.
Did you put foam sheet insulation, does your house have tyvek . do you
have a condensing furnace. Your house isnt breathing enough its to
tight, you should get a blower door test, infiltration, test. You
probably need an air exchanger to move fresh air. Your new windows,
what brand , low e , argon, dual pane do you vent cooking and showers
outdoors, For now open a few windows, air it out see how low humidity
goes, leave a few cracked open see how much of a difference it makes
Find your true humidity, and get some testing done on air exchange.


the house is a 40 year old ranch and in the attic there was only a minimal
amount of fiberglass insulation so i added more on top of what was there,
nothing excessive. i have forced hot air heat and do not have a humidistat
on it and we re-sided on the rear and 2 sides of the house over asbestos and
went down to the tar paper in the front and used foam board over that then
the new vinyl. the windows are certainteed w/ 3/4" double glazed insulated
insulated units. i've been involved in the glass installation and
replacement field for many years and i've never experienced this. the
wireless hygrometer i have is a decent one which gives within 2% accuracy of
the Relative Humidity that is given from the weather channel and the Weather
bug program i have. how much lower should the RH be in the house than 45%-
50%.

thanks,

mike.......

"M&B" wrote in message
...
hey all, i've been having a problem for a while in the winters with
condensation forming on the windows. i had wood double hung windows with
triple track storm windows which i replaced this spring w/ a very good
vinyl
replacement window. and just recently re-sided w/ a layer of 1/2" foam
and
vinyl siding. we've had a few nights dip into the mid to lower 30's and
now
in the morning condensation on the windows. we keep a dehumidifyer in the
basement and the humidity level down there is usually about 47% at about
65
degrees F. up stairs (it's a 1,400 sqft. ranch) where we are having the
problem the humidity level is just about the same but can range from
45%-57%
and the them usually goes no lower than 63 degrees F in the house. there
is
never condensation on the basement windows. once the temp outside warms up
and the heat in the house gets going the condensation will dry up after i
wipe most of it away. the thermostat for the house is set to 68 degrees
during the day and 63 at night. when we first bought the house i added
more
insulation to the attic, hoping that i could solve the problem but it
didn't
help and i hoped that with the new windows it would solve the problem
peroid, but it hasn't. any help would be appreciated.


mike.......

This is Turtle.

It cases like this Moving of air in the room will stop this. another one
here is the Double insulted windows are not suppose to do this so I think
the Gas inbetween the two glasses is gone / defective double insulted
windows. Here is a list of cures below.

Ceiling fan
Box fan
Central unit with fan running all the time.
New Double insulted windows
Anything that will move air over the window.

TURTLE

Certainteed windows are good, Consumer reports tested alot of windows ,
one test was condensation, I have pella and anderson , the pella fog ,
anderson dont, see how they rate yours.
Humidity acuracy is tougher, so you put yours outside and it
corresponded to the tv. It may work. And be right. But Im Quoting
Taylor instruments now;
" Humidity meters measure relative air mosture indoors only, not the
outdoor humidity reported by the weather bureau. These instruments
register percentage of water which is actualy present in the room
compared with the maximum amount of water vapor that could be present. "
If yours is correct that is a safe level. but that also depends on
outside temps and humidity, if you are in the dry cold now id say you
are to high , im 50` and raining and im at 51% , and my house IS to
tight. but i dont condense on pellas till 20 outside, at night. I
still think you have a tight house. I can lookup some numbers on RH vs
Temperature , how cold is your area now. I put foam board on , new
windows , the whole works. Last year i couldnt run my new April Air
automatic humidifier, im to humid now. Now I need a fresh air recovery
system, or a second dehumidifier . I am getting a scond blower test. You
save money by insulating, but can create a new issue.

I just read that when you first turn your furnace in fall its normal for
windows to fog because you built up high humidity from summer , and
your house should dry out as you use your heat. Is your attic vented
well.
If its above 40 you should be around 40%

M&B wrote:

hey all, i've been having a problem for a while in the winters with
condensation forming on the windows. i had wood double hung windows with
triple track storm windows which i replaced this spring w/ a very good vinyl
replacement window. and just recently re-sided w/ a layer of 1/2" foam and
vinyl siding. we've had a few nights dip into the mid to lower 30's and now
in the morning condensation on the windows. we keep a dehumidifyer in the
basement and the humidity level down there is usually about 47% at about 65
degrees F. up stairs (it's a 1,400 sqft. ranch) where we are having the
problem the humidity level is just about the same but can range from 45%-57%
and the them usually goes no lower than 63 degrees F in the house. there is
never condensation on the basement windows. once the temp outside warms up
and the heat in the house gets going the condensation will dry up after i
wipe most of it away. the thermostat for the house is set to 68 degrees
during the day and 63 at night. when we first bought the house i added more
insulation to the attic, hoping that i could solve the problem but it didn't
help and i hoped that with the new windows it would solve the problem
peroid, but it hasn't. any help would be appreciated.

mike.......
in the summer time go outside in the 90's with a glass of cold ice
water.. the glass sweats on the outside(why??? because the outside of
the glass is warmeer than the inside of the glass with the icewater....
the same thing with the house only reverse.... now do the same thing
with a foam cup(cold water inside and there is no condensation on the
outside of the foam cup... why?? becasue the cut in insulated and the
cold on the inside does not go to the outside of the cup.....
its moisture inside the house and a higer heat in the house than outside
that make the condensation on the glass windows.... that is why it
sweats..... not much you can do about it the cold it traveling through
the glass.. it does not matter how much insulation you put in the walls
or ceiling it will not stop the glass from sweating... the only thing
that will stop the glass from sweating is it you leave all the windows
and doors open so the inside of the house is just as cold as the
outside..

"mark Ransley" wrote in message
...
I just read that when you first turn your furnace in fall its normal for
windows to fog because you built up high humidity from summer , and
your house should dry out as you use your heat. Is your attic vented
well.
If its above 40 you should be around 40%


we have 3 gable vents, 1 on each side and one in the front.

the previous owner has fiberglass insulation installed in the basement just
between the floor joists and the sill plate to protect from outside air,
i've been thinking about removing that fiberglass and seeing if that helps.
this has been an on going problem for years and it's getting real
frustrating to go thru this every day of the winter. the thing is it's only
at night and usually when it's cold and dry outside not cold and damp.

anything else that comes to mind lemme know.

thanks,

mike...........

"mark Ransley" wrote in message
...
Certainteed windows are good, Consumer reports tested alot of windows ,
one test was condensation, I have pella and anderson , the pella fog ,
anderson dont, see how they rate yours.
Humidity acuracy is tougher, so you put yours outside and it
corresponded to the tv. It may work. And be right. But Im Quoting
Taylor instruments now;
" Humidity meters measure relative air mosture indoors only, not the
outdoor humidity reported by the weather bureau. These instruments
register percentage of water which is actualy present in the room
compared with the maximum amount of water vapor that could be present. "
If yours is correct that is a safe level. but that also depends on
outside temps and humidity, if you are in the dry cold now id say you
are to high , im 50` and raining and im at 51% , and my house IS to
tight. but i dont condense on pellas till 20 outside, at night. I
still think you have a tight house. I can lookup some numbers on RH vs
Temperature , how cold is your area now. I put foam board on , new
windows , the whole works. Last year i couldnt run my new April Air
automatic humidifier, im to humid now. Now I need a fresh air recovery
system, or a second dehumidifier . I am getting a scond blower test. You
save money by insulating, but can create a new issue.


before i bought my windows i went to the consumers site and took their
advice and bought the BrynMaur series since i've never been too fond to the
Pella windows.
what is a fresh air recovery system?
we used a dehumidifier in the house for a couple winters and it didn't help
much even though we did pull a lot of water from the air, but our sinuses
were always dry and esaily irritated and this has become a thing of major
frustration.


if you can think of anything else lemme know.

thanks,

mike...............

How many kids, no bath vent fan, put one in. there is a big part of
your problem. Kitchen vent fan?
Does your furnace use outside air. Does your drier vent outside.
Attic vent size is determined by sq ft of attic, a ranch has alot of sq
ft.
Leave basement insulation.
A vent recovery system i think they are called, or air exchange system
brings in fresh air and warms it through a heat exchanger so you dont
waist energy as if you opened a window . some dehumidify .
Dry sinuses, maybe you need more air exchanges in the house,
Check your humidistat for accuracy and get another one.

"jim" wrote in message ...
M&B wrote:

hey all, i've been having a problem for a while in the winters with
condensation forming on the windows. i had wood double hung windows
with
triple track storm windows which i replaced this spring w/ a very good
vinyl
replacement window. and just recently re-sided w/ a layer of 1/2" foam
and
vinyl siding. we've had a few nights dip into the mid to lower 30's and
now
in the morning condensation on the windows. we keep a dehumidifyer in
the
basement and the humidity level down there is usually about 47% at about
65
degrees F. up stairs (it's a 1,400 sqft. ranch) where we are having the
problem the humidity level is just about the same but can range from
45%-57%
and the them usually goes no lower than 63 degrees F in the house.
there is
never condensation on the basement windows. once the temp outside warms
up
and the heat in the house gets going the condensation will dry up after
i
wipe most of it away. the thermostat for the house is set to 68 degrees
during the day and 63 at night. when we first bought the house i added
more
insulation to the attic, hoping that i could solve the problem but it
didn't
help and i hoped that with the new windows it would solve the problem
peroid, but it hasn't. any help would be appreciated.

mike.......
in the summer time go outside in the 90's with a glass of cold ice
water.. the glass sweats on the outside(why??? because the outside of
the glass is warmeer than the inside of the glass with the icewater....
the same thing with the house only reverse.... now do the same thing
with a foam cup(cold water inside and there is no condensation on the
outside of the foam cup... why?? becasue the cut in insulated and the
cold on the inside does not go to the outside of the cup.....
its moisture inside the house and a higer heat in the house than outside
that make the condensation on the glass windows.... that is why it
sweats..... not much you can do about it the cold it traveling through
the glass.. it does not matter how much insulation you put in the walls
or ceiling it will not stop the glass from sweating... the only thing
that will stop the glass from sweating is it you leave all the windows
and doors open so the inside of the house is just as cold as the
outside..

it sounds like it's correct but it's not or every window in a cold climate
would have that problem. nice try though.


mike.......

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"M&B" wrote in message
...
hey all, i've been having a problem for a while in the winters with
condensation forming on the windows. i had wood double hung windows
with
triple track storm windows which i replaced this spring w/ a very good
vinyl
replacement window. and just recently re-sided w/ a layer of 1/2" foam
and
vinyl siding. we've had a few nights dip into the mid to lower 30's and
now
in the morning condensation on the windows. we keep a dehumidifyer in
the
basement and the humidity level down there is usually about 47% at about
65
degrees F. up stairs (it's a 1,400 sqft. ranch) where we are having the
problem the humidity level is just about the same but can range from
45%-57%
and the them usually goes no lower than 63 degrees F in the house.
there
is
never condensation on the basement windows. once the temp outside warms
up
and the heat in the house gets going the condensation will dry up after
i
wipe most of it away. the thermostat for the house is set to 68 degrees
during the day and 63 at night. when we first bought the house i added
more
insulation to the attic, hoping that i could solve the problem but it
didn't
help and i hoped that with the new windows it would solve the problem
peroid, but it hasn't. any help would be appreciated.


mike.......

This is Turtle.

It cases like this Moving of air in the room will stop this. another one
here is the Double insulted windows are not suppose to do this so I think
the Gas inbetween the two glasses is gone / defective double insulted
windows. Here is a list of cures below.

my windows are brand new, i just installed them in May.


Ceiling fan

i have ceiling fans in every room and they seem to help a little. i keep
them on low in reverse to move the air but not make it too breezy and chilly
for the kids at night.




Box fan
Central unit with fan running all the time.
New Double insulted windows
Anything that will move air over the window.



thanks,

mike.............

"mark Ransley" wrote in message
...
How many kids,

3 kids, plus myself and my wife.

no bath vent fan, put one in. there is a big part of
your problem.

Kitchen vent fan? no. but usually just need it when water is boiled.


Does your furnace use outside air.
No it doesn't, can it be made to use outside air? it has a central A/C in
with it will that effect the A/c in the summer?

Does your drier vent outside.
Yes it does.

Attic vent size is determined by sq ft of attic, a ranch has alot of sq
ft.
Leave basement insulation.
A vent recovery system i think they are called, or air exchange system
brings in fresh air and warms it through a heat exchanger so you dont
waist energy as if you opened a window . some dehumidify .
Dry sinuses, maybe you need more air exchanges in the house,
This was just with the dehumidifier in the house not in the basement.



Check your humidistat for accuracy and get another one.


thanks,

mike..........

"M&B" wrote in message
...

"TURTLE" wrote in message
...

"M&B" wrote in message
...
hey all, i've been having a problem for a while in the winters with
condensation forming on the windows. i had wood double hung windows
with
triple track storm windows which i replaced this spring w/ a very good
vinyl
replacement window. and just recently re-sided w/ a layer of 1/2"
foam
and
vinyl siding. we've had a few nights dip into the mid to lower 30's
and
now
in the morning condensation on the windows. we keep a dehumidifyer in
the
basement and the humidity level down there is usually about 47% at
about
65
degrees F. up stairs (it's a 1,400 sqft. ranch) where we are having
the
problem the humidity level is just about the same but can range from
45%-57%
and the them usually goes no lower than 63 degrees F in the house.
there
is
never condensation on the basement windows. once the temp outside
warms
up
and the heat in the house gets going the condensation will dry up
after
i
wipe most of it away. the thermostat for the house is set to 68
degrees
during the day and 63 at night. when we first bought the house i
added
more
insulation to the attic, hoping that i could solve the problem but it
didn't
help and i hoped that with the new windows it would solve the problem
peroid, but it hasn't. any help would be appreciated.


mike.......

This is Turtle.

It cases like this Moving of air in the room will stop this. another one
here is the Double insulted windows are not suppose to do this so I
think
the Gas inbetween the two glasses is gone / defective double insulted
windows. Here is a list of cures below.

my windows are brand new, i just installed them in May.


Ceiling fan

i have ceiling fans in every room and they seem to help a little. i keep
them on low in reverse to move the air but not make it too breezy and
chilly
for the kids at night.




Box fan
Central unit with fan running all the time.
New Double insulted windows
Anything that will move air over the window.



thanks,

mike.............

This is Turtle.

Let me be a little more clear here. Double insulted window DO NOT SWEAT ON
THE INSIDE without one of these things going wrong.

There is 1 of 4 things going on here.

1) You have a bad air leak around the window area.

2) You have 100% RH in your home.

3) You have defective double insulted window with the gas gone out of the
inter area between the double glasses.

4) You have blinds that seal the ceiling fan air off from passing over the
window area.

1 of these things is going on.

TURTLE

Turtle you are batting Zero
1 New windows, good quality
2 its normal when heat first comes on in fall
3 he needs more fresh aire
4 blinds are affecting solar gain. true but not
relevant.

M&B wrote:

hey all, i've been having a problem for a while in the winters with
condensation forming on the windows.

Hmmm. As I understand it, water condenses according to two factors:
the amount of water IN the air, and the temperature differential
between the air and the condensing surface. So condensation can form
when the humidity is very high, or when the temperature differential
is extreme, or some in-between combination. You mention a measured
indoor humidity of 47% at a temperature of 65F. According to a nifty
little dew-point calculator

http://www.decatur.de/javascript/dew/

your dew point is about 44F. If the inside surface of your windows is
44F or lower, you will have condensation. Insulating your house and
attic will reduce heating costs, but if you have very cold window
surfaces, condensation will still occur.

"mark Ransley" wrote in message
...
Turtle you are batting Zero
1 New windows, good quality
2 its normal when heat first comes on in fall
3 he needs more fresh aire
4 blinds are affecting solar gain. true but not
relevant.


this is Turtle.

I just can't buy the ideal of Double pain windows sweating with 0ºF or above
outside and 60ºF or above inside the house. this is the reason you buy them
in the first place except for heat lost. Maybe it's just me but I think
different about things when I see them for years.

Now if you have moisture / Air between the pains. It will sweat. If it has
the N2 still there I THINK they should not sweat.

TURTLE

My house is to tight and I have Pella and anderson, LowE Argon dual
pane, My pellas fog at around 35 outside , They just are not as good
as Anderson. They are rated for Condenstion Resistance Factor CRF.
Which I paid no attention to. I need an Air Exchanger. The tighter the
house , the more likley condensation. They are all different. Consumer
Reports rated them for condensation , and Pellas were rated poor. Oh
well

"mark Ransley" wrote in message
...
My house is to tight and I have Pella and anderson, LowE Argon dual
pane, My pellas fog at around 35 outside , They just are not as good
as Anderson. They are rated for Condenstion Resistance Factor CRF.
Which I paid no attention to. I need an Air Exchanger. The tighter the
house , the more likley condensation. They are all different. Consumer
Reports rated them for condensation , and Pellas were rated poor. Oh
well


I had two bay window put in about 2 years ago with anderson double insulated
glass and the Anderson rep. garrentied me they would not sweat down to
freezing weather but at 25ºF or below there maybe some sweating but little
or none to speak of. It's been 2 years and we don't get much cold weather
but down to 25 or so at the lowest and i have never seen any sweating on
them. I have some other single window and they sweat up a storm. I have to
run the ceiling fans to keep them from flooding everything.

i just may have this not sweating in my brain for looking for it ohn these
type window.

TURTLE