I got a call from "windows support" today telling me I had a problem
with my machine. Normally I just tell them to perform an unnatural act
with their mother but today I decided I would play along as long as
they would let me. This "english as a second language" guy gave me the
"grave danger pitch and then started telling me to type in a web
address and I said it keeps saying "bad file or command name". He
asked what was on my PC screen and I said "C:"
They had me reboot a couple times and I made that take a long time,
"wait, I need to set the clock" etc. They got second level involved
and he asked how I get to the internet and I said I just use E-mail.
He asked how I do that and I said AOL.
He kept telling me there must be an internet address bar there and I
said I don't see one and I have never used it.
He asked what version of AOL I was using and I said I don't see a
version, it just says "AOL for DOS".
He asked what kind of machine I had and I said "IBM Personal Computer
XT".
I acted confused when they asked me about the OS. I said it was the
one that was on it when I bought the machine in 1985. After a minute
or two of violent keyboard clicking I said "DOS 2.1"
After another guy got on the phone, they finally asked me if I had
windows and I told them "no, that was the tool of satan". They hung
up.

I tied up 2 or 3 guys for 15 minutes.
Maybe they will take me off their list now.

On 05/09/2016 11:32 AM, wrote:

I acted confused when they asked me about the OS. I said it was the
one that was on it when I bought the machine in 1985. After a minute
or two of violent keyboard clicking I said "DOS 2.1"
After another guy got on the phone, they finally asked me if I had
windows and I told them "no, that was the tool of satan". They hung
up.

I tied up 2 or 3 guys for 15 minutes.
Maybe they will take me off their list now.




I have in my antique computer collection one of those Compaq "sewing
machine" computers.

It only works with Dos 2.1


so you made a damn good choice there

On Mon, 9 May 2016 11:41:51 -0500, philo wrote:


I have in my antique computer collection one of those Compaq "sewing
machine" computers.

It only works with Dos 2.1


so you made a damn good choice there

I remember upgrading my PC1 (original 5150) to DOS 2.1 when I added
the hard drive and new system board with HD boot bios.

On 05/09/2016 11:55 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 9 May 2016 11:41:51 -0500, philo wrote:


I have in my antique computer collection one of those Compaq "sewing
machine" computers.

It only works with Dos 2.1


so you made a damn good choice there

I remember upgrading my PC1 (original 5150) to DOS 2.1 when I added
the hard drive and new system board with HD boot bios.




I did a lot of experimenting.

Dos 1 floppies can only be read from a machine running Dos 1

and Dos 2 floppies can only be read from a machine running dos 2



Once Dos 3 came out, it could read any version of Dos above it and visa
versa. The commands would not necessarily work but at least there was
some level of compatibility.

On Mon, 9 May 2016 12:07:00 -0500, philo wrote:

Dos 1 floppies can only be read from a machine running Dos 1

and Dos 2 floppies can only be read from a machine running dos 2

Huh? That is not my experience. I was able to read and copy my DOS
1.0 diskettes with other versions. The last time I copied them it was
in the DOS box of W/98. You do need a drive capable of reading 128k
disks tho. All "real" IBM drives will do it. YMMV on a clone.
You do have to be careful tho. You need to do a 'diskcopy" or you will
end up with a disk that is formatted at whatever it was, typically
256k or 1.2m. You can't really make a 128k disk on 1.2m media tho. The
oxide is different and it will not read on a 128k or 256k drive.

On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 12:55:52 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 9 May 2016 11:41:51 -0500, philo wrote:


I have in my antique computer collection one of those Compaq "sewing
machine" computers.

It only works with Dos 2.1


so you made a damn good choice there

I remember upgrading my PC1 (original 5150) to DOS 2.1 when I added
the hard drive and new system board with HD boot bios.

I installed literally thousands of 5150's when I worked IT for a former
Fortune 500 company. The scientists in the Research Labs got them first,
then management, then the 5150's replaced the hundreds of Radio Shack
TRS-80's that we had installed for the secretaries a few years earlier.

Every 5150 had to have an IBM-3270 terminal emulator board installed
so employees could connect to the mainframe. It was interesting to watch
some employees use them as nothing more than glorified terminals while
other's took full advantage of the "computing power" at their fingertips.

On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 1:07:06 PM UTC-4, philo wrote:
On 05/09/2016 11:55 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 9 May 2016 11:41:51 -0500, philo wrote:


I have in my antique computer collection one of those Compaq "sewing
machine" computers.

It only works with Dos 2.1


so you made a damn good choice there

I remember upgrading my PC1 (original 5150) to DOS 2.1 when I added
the hard drive and new system board with HD boot bios.




I did a lot of experimenting.

Dos 1 floppies can only be read from a machine running Dos 1

and Dos 2 floppies can only be read from a machine running dos 2



Once Dos 3 came out, it could read any version of Dos above it and visa
versa. The commands would not necessarily work but at least there was
some level of compatibility.

We used to punch index holes in the B-side of 5" and 8" floppies to use
them as dual-sided floppies long before dual-sided was an industry standard.

We told the users that we did this for that they should be cautious with
what they stored on the B-side because they were not "certified" by the
manufacturer, but we saw no greater failure rate on the B-side than the
certified side.

It was never the floppy per se that failed, it was typically the drive that
trashed the floppy. Static was the biggest problem. We had TRS-80 units that
were so bad that the users would touch the plastic case of the keyboard and
the daisy wheel printer would spit out a character.

We hung copper straps from the sprinkler system and attached grounding
bracelets to them. Secretaries would ground themselves to the building
before sitting down to do their word processing.

On Mon, 9 May 2016 10:25:25 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Every 5150 had to have an IBM-3270 terminal emulator board installed
so employees could connect to the mainframe. It was interesting to watch
some employees use them as nothing more than glorified terminals while
other's took full advantage of the "computing power" at their fingertips.

There were a few flavors of that card and several software options.
IBM internal had a pretty neat one that ran with very low overhead,
supported four 3270 sessions and a DOS session, that could also be
running W/3.1
You could have a bunch of stuff going on if you were running a 286
with a big memory expansion card in it and the right extended/expanded
memory drivers loaded.

This was the one I had on my desk..
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Woodiy%20AT.jpg
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Woodiy%20AT%20inside.jpg

On 05/09/2016 12:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 9 May 2016 12:07:00 -0500, philo wrote:

Dos 1 floppies can only be read from a machine running Dos 1

and Dos 2 floppies can only be read from a machine running dos 2

Huh? That is not my experience. I was able to read and copy my DOS
1.0 diskettes with other versions. The last time I copied them it was
in the DOS box of W/98. You do need a drive capable of reading 128k
disks tho. All "real" IBM drives will do it. YMMV on a clone.
You do have to be careful tho. You need to do a 'diskcopy" or you will
end up with a disk that is formatted at whatever it was, typically
256k or 1.2m. You can't really make a 128k disk on 1.2m media tho. The
oxide is different and it will not read on a 128k or 256k drive.





When I tried to read known working Dos1 floppies from another version of
DOS all looked corrupted.

Same with Dos 2


(shrug)

On 05/09/2016 12:37 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Once Dos 3 came out, it could read any version of Dos above it and visa
versa. The commands would not necessarily work but at least there was
some level of compatibility.

We used to punch index holes in the B-side of 5" and 8" floppies to use
them as dual-sided floppies long before dual-sided was an industry standard.

We told the users that we did this for that they should be cautious with
what they stored on the B-side because they were not "certified" by the
manufacturer, but we saw no greater failure rate on the B-side than the
certified side.

It was never the floppy per se that failed, it was typically the drive that
trashed the floppy. Static was the biggest problem. We had TRS-80 units that
were so bad that the users would touch the plastic case of the keyboard and
the daisy wheel printer would spit out a character.

We hung copper straps from the sprinkler system and attached grounding
bracelets to them. Secretaries would ground themselves to the building
before sitting down to do their word processing.




I did a different bit of experimenting.

I still have an IBM PS/2 with the 2.88 meg floppy drive.

Supposedly it required a special floppy, but I had no problems
formatting a standard 1.44 as a 2.88

On 05/09/2016 02:04 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 9 May 2016 10:25:25 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Every 5150 had to have an IBM-3270 terminal emulator board installed
so employees could connect to the mainframe. It was interesting to watch
some employees use them as nothing more than glorified terminals while
other's took full advantage of the "computing power" at their fingertips.

There were a few flavors of that card and several software options.
IBM internal had a pretty neat one that ran with very low overhead,
supported four 3270 sessions and a DOS session, that could also be
running W/3.1
You could have a bunch of stuff going on if you were running a 286
with a big memory expansion card in it and the right extended/expanded
memory drivers loaded.

This was the one I had on my desk..
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Woodiy%20AT.jpg
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Woodiy%20AT%20inside.jpg




Just to see if I could do it...maybe ten years ago or so I got a Zenith
Data Systems 286 with 512 megs of on-board RAM

In my junk box I had an ISA memory expansion board and was able to
install 16 megs of RAM. I even had the software so that DOS & Win3.1
could recognized it.

On 5/9/2016 12:32 PM, wrote:
I got a call from "windows support" today telling me I had a problem
with my machine. Normally I just tell them to perform an unnatural act
with their mother but today I decided I would play along as long as
they would let me. This "english as a second language" guy gave me the
"grave danger pitch and then started telling me to type in a web
address and I said it keeps saying "bad file or command name". He
asked what was on my PC screen and I said "C:"
They had me reboot a couple times and I made that take a long time,
"wait, I need to set the clock" etc. They got second level involved
and he asked how I get to the internet and I said I just use E-mail.
He asked how I do that and I said AOL.
He kept telling me there must be an internet address bar there and I
said I don't see one and I have never used it.
He asked what version of AOL I was using and I said I don't see a
version, it just says "AOL for DOS".
He asked what kind of machine I had and I said "IBM Personal Computer
XT".
I acted confused when they asked me about the OS. I said it was the
one that was on it when I bought the machine in 1985. After a minute
or two of violent keyboard clicking I said "DOS 2.1"
After another guy got on the phone, they finally asked me if I had
windows and I told them "no, that was the tool of satan". They hung
up.

I tied up 2 or 3 guys for 15 minutes.
Maybe they will take me off their list now.

I tied up one of the telemarketing crooks for several minutes acting
like a befuddled old man which is easy at my age.

Then I came back clearly telling the guy that I was wasting his time.
He told me that I did not have a lot of time left to waste and, you know
what, he was right.

Your time is worth much more than the $1/hr he's making in India.

On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 3:05:05 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 9 May 2016 10:25:25 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Every 5150 had to have an IBM-3270 terminal emulator board installed
so employees could connect to the mainframe. It was interesting to watch
some employees use them as nothing more than glorified terminals while
other's took full advantage of the "computing power" at their fingertips.

There were a few flavors of that card and several software options.

If I recall correctly, there were more than a *few* flavors. It seemed like
they changed flavors with each subsequent order of 5150's as well as when
they ordered spares. You never knew which emulator was installed until you
got on site and looked at the user's machine. Sometimes we had the correct
spare in stock, sometimes we were changing cards as well as software.

Regardless, it sure beat swapping out an entire 3270 terminal.

....snipp...

On Mon, 9 May 2016 14:33:01 -0500, philo wrote:

On 05/09/2016 12:37 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Once Dos 3 came out, it could read any version of Dos above it and visa
versa. The commands would not necessarily work but at least there was
some level of compatibility.

We used to punch index holes in the B-side of 5" and 8" floppies to use
them as dual-sided floppies long before dual-sided was an industry standard.

We told the users that we did this for that they should be cautious with
what they stored on the B-side because they were not "certified" by the
manufacturer, but we saw no greater failure rate on the B-side than the
certified side.

It was never the floppy per se that failed, it was typically the drive that
trashed the floppy. Static was the biggest problem. We had TRS-80 units that
were so bad that the users would touch the plastic case of the keyboard and
the daisy wheel printer would spit out a character.

We hung copper straps from the sprinkler system and attached grounding
bracelets to them. Secretaries would ground themselves to the building
before sitting down to do their word processing.




I did a different bit of experimenting.

I still have an IBM PS/2 with the 2.88 meg floppy drive.

Supposedly it required a special floppy, but I had no problems
formatting a standard 1.44 as a 2.88



IBM PS/2 does not honor the media sense hole.
It all depends on what the media descriptor byte says in the boot
sector.
That can get you in trouble if you are dealing with newer IBM PCs or
clones.
I suppose you could format a 720 disk to 2.88 but it may not be
reliable.
I did have a bunch of misformatted disks (720 and 1.44) around and
they seemed to work just fine tho.
The one that didn't work was mixing up the 5.25" formats.

On Mon, 9 May 2016 12:46:11 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 3:05:05 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 9 May 2016 10:25:25 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Every 5150 had to have an IBM-3270 terminal emulator board installed
so employees could connect to the mainframe. It was interesting to watch
some employees use them as nothing more than glorified terminals while
other's took full advantage of the "computing power" at their fingertips.

There were a few flavors of that card and several software options.

If I recall correctly, there were more than a *few* flavors. It seemed like
they changed flavors with each subsequent order of 5150's as well as when
they ordered spares. You never knew which emulator was installed until you
got on site and looked at the user's machine. Sometimes we had the correct
spare in stock, sometimes we were changing cards as well as software.

Regardless, it sure beat swapping out an entire 3270 terminal.

...snipp...

Until the 3180s came out, we fixed 3270 terminals. (cards, power
supplies and even the CRT) The 3180 was a FRU. Cut open the box and
plug in a new one.

On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 3:33:05 PM UTC-4, philo wrote:
On 05/09/2016 12:37 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Once Dos 3 came out, it could read any version of Dos above it and visa
versa. The commands would not necessarily work but at least there was
some level of compatibility.

We used to punch index holes in the B-side of 5" and 8" floppies to use
them as dual-sided floppies long before dual-sided was an industry standard.

We told the users that we did this for that they should be cautious with
what they stored on the B-side because they were not "certified" by the
manufacturer, but we saw no greater failure rate on the B-side than the
certified side.

It was never the floppy per se that failed, it was typically the drive that
trashed the floppy. Static was the biggest problem. We had TRS-80 units that
were so bad that the users would touch the plastic case of the keyboard and
the daisy wheel printer would spit out a character.

We hung copper straps from the sprinkler system and attached grounding
bracelets to them. Secretaries would ground themselves to the building
before sitting down to do their word processing.




I did a different bit of experimenting.

I still have an IBM PS/2 with the 2.88 meg floppy drive.

Supposedly it required a special floppy, but I had no problems
formatting a standard 1.44 as a 2.88

Speaking of experimenting...

The TRS-80's had a 3-bay 8" floppy expansion unit. It was notorious for
corrupting disks. We'd swap out a drive, test the new one and then put the
case back on. 2 hours/2 days/2 weeks later, we'd get called back for the
same problem.

We finally figured out that if we left the (I forget which) 3 screws along
the (I forget which) side out, we never got called back.

We began to remove those screws before even delivering the units to new users
and the failure rate plummeted.

We also learned to open up every single keyboard and run a ground wire from
the circuit board ground to the plastic case prior to delivery. Static related
disk drive failures were reduced dramatically.

I think that there was something like 4 modifications that we made to the
machines before delivery just to keep the failure rates down. Those are the
dollars that never show up on the correct budget reports. Instead of having
the units delivered straight to the end-user's office where we could just
open them up and put them on their desk, every unit had to be delivered to
our shop, unpacked, modified, repacked and then taken to the end-user.

Some purchasing agent probably got a bonus for negotiating a sweet deal on
the "sales" side of the books, meanwhile the IT maintenance budget for each
department was getting hammered before they even received a computer. But, hey,
those are "internal dollars" so they don't matter.

Did I mention that this was a *former* Fortune 500 company?

On 05/09/2016 03:06 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 9 May 2016 14:33:01 -0500, philo wrote:

On 05/09/2016 12:37 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Once Dos 3 came out, it could read any version of Dos above it and visa
versa. The commands would not necessarily work but at least there was
some level of compatibility.

We used to punch index holes in the B-side of 5" and 8" floppies to use
them as dual-sided floppies long before dual-sided was an industry standard.

We told the users that we did this for that they should be cautious with
what they stored on the B-side because they were not "certified" by the
manufacturer, but we saw no greater failure rate on the B-side than the
certified side.

It was never the floppy per se that failed, it was typically the drive that
trashed the floppy. Static was the biggest problem. We had TRS-80 units that
were so bad that the users would touch the plastic case of the keyboard and
the daisy wheel printer would spit out a character.

We hung copper straps from the sprinkler system and attached grounding
bracelets to them. Secretaries would ground themselves to the building
before sitting down to do their word processing.




I did a different bit of experimenting.

I still have an IBM PS/2 with the 2.88 meg floppy drive.

Supposedly it required a special floppy, but I had no problems
formatting a standard 1.44 as a 2.88



IBM PS/2 does not honor the media sense hole.
It all depends on what the media descriptor byte says in the boot
sector.
That can get you in trouble if you are dealing with newer IBM PCs or
c



Since I did this experiment long after the PS/2 was obsolete, it could
simply be that the floppies at that time were better quality than those
that existed at the time the PS/2 would have been in production.


From time to time I thin out my collection of vintage computers but
doubt I will ever part with that PS/2

On 05/09/2016 03:12 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 3:33:05 PM UTC-4, philo wrote:
On 05/09/2016 12:37 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Once Dos 3 came out, it could read any version of Dos above it and visa
versa. The commands would not necessarily work but at least there was
some level of compatibility.

We used to punch index holes in the B-side of 5" and 8" floppies to use
them as dual-sided floppies long before dual-sided was an industry standard.

We told the users that we did this for that they should be cautious with
what they stored on the B-side because they were not "certified" by the
manufacturer, but we saw no greater failure rate on the B-side than the
certified side.

It was never the floppy per se that failed, it was typically the drive that
trashed the floppy. Static was the biggest problem. We had TRS-80 units that
were so bad that the users would touch the plastic case of the keyboard and
the daisy wheel printer would spit out a character.

We hung copper straps from the sprinkler system and attached grounding
bracelets to them. Secretaries would ground themselves to the building
before sitting down to do their word processing.




I did a different bit of experimenting.

I still have an IBM PS/2 with the 2.88 meg floppy drive.

Supposedly it required a special floppy, but I had no problems
formatting a standard 1.44 as a 2.88

Speaking of experimenting...

The TRS-80's had a 3-bay 8" floppy expansion unit. It was notorious for
corrupting disks. We'd swap out a drive, test the new one and then put the
case back on. 2 hours/2 days/2 weeks later, we'd get called back for the
same problem.

We finall

snip
tter.

Did I mention that this was a *former* Fortune 500 company?




LOL


I never had a TRS-80

but when I got my Ti-99/4, the ability to save my programs on a cassette
seemed amazing.

It was just like having a miniature main-frame!

On Mon, 9 May 2016 16:05:17 -0500, philo wrote:

Since I did this experiment long after the PS/2 was obsolete, it could
simply be that the floppies at that time were better quality than those
that existed at the time the PS/2 would have been in production.


I always suspected that as newer media came along, all disks were made
for that and were backward compatible,

From time to time I thin out my collection of vintage computers but
doubt I will ever part with that PS/2

I am out of the PS/2 business but there is still a pretty active PS/2
newsgroup. That is where I donated all my books and hardware.

On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 4:10:26 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 9 May 2016 12:46:11 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 3:05:05 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 9 May 2016 10:25:25 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Every 5150 had to have an IBM-3270 terminal emulator board installed
so employees could connect to the mainframe. It was interesting to watch
some employees use them as nothing more than glorified terminals while
other's took full advantage of the "computing power" at their fingertips.

There were a few flavors of that card and several software options.

If I recall correctly, there were more than a *few* flavors. It seemed like
they changed flavors with each subsequent order of 5150's as well as when
they ordered spares. You never knew which emulator was installed until you
got on site and looked at the user's machine. Sometimes we had the correct
spare in stock, sometimes we were changing cards as well as software.

Regardless, it sure beat swapping out an entire 3270 terminal.

...snipp...

Until the 3180s came out, we fixed 3270 terminals. (cards, power
supplies and even the CRT) The 3180 was a FRU. Cut open the box and
plug in a new one.

Depending on the situation, we either swapped 'em out and repaired the bad unit in
the shop or fixed them on-site. It depended on the symptoms, whose terminal it was,
location, etc.

e.g. in a secure area, we'd sometimes swap them on a cart *outside* the area and let the
customer hook the good one back up.

When we moved up to PC's things got a little more complicated.

On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 9:33:18 AM UTC-7, wrote:
I got a call from "windows support" today telling me I had a problem
with my machine. Normally I just tell them to perform an unnatural act
with their mother but today I decided I would play along as long as
they would let me. This "english as a second language" guy gave me the
"grave danger pitch and then started telling me to type in a web
address and I said it keeps saying "bad file or command name". He
asked what was on my PC screen and I said "C:"
They had me reboot a couple times and I made that take a long time,
"wait, I need to set the clock" etc. They got second level involved
and he asked how I get to the internet and I said I just use E-mail.
He asked how I do that and I said AOL.
He kept telling me there must be an internet address bar there and I
said I don't see one and I have never used it.
He asked what version of AOL I was using and I said I don't see a
version, it just says "AOL for DOS".
He asked what kind of machine I had and I said "IBM Personal Computer
XT".
I acted confused when they asked me about the OS. I said it was the
one that was on it when I bought the machine in 1985. After a minute
or two of violent keyboard clicking I said "DOS 2.1"
After another guy got on the phone, they finally asked me if I had
windows and I told them "no, that was the tool of satan". They hung
up.

I tied up 2 or 3 guys for 15 minutes.
Maybe they will take me off their list now.

Ha Ha!
One of those assholes called me about a year ago, (B4 I started using NoMoRobo) He learned not only some new American swear words and some interesting combinations of them, along with some suggested sex acts for him and his boy friend to try out on each other when they get home

On Mon, 9 May 2016 16:07:07 -0500, philo wrote:

I never had a TRS-80

but when I got my Ti-99/4, the ability to save my programs on a cassette
seemed amazing.

It was just like having a miniature main-frame!

I missed all of that stuff, Until the 80s, I could get mainframe time
just about any time I wanted it. In the 60s and early 70s we had the
whole system for a few hours a week at a half dozen customers. I could
get a partition just about any time I liked. A program I wrote,
allowing concurrent maintenance on anything running DOS (360-370
style) pretty much made taking the system obsolete for the guys who
used it.
I got into the home computer biz with the IBM PC and a "first day
ship" PC1. I bought it second hand when an IBM guy I knew upgraded to
the brand new PC/AT.

As you saw, I built my first AT from parts (there is no part number
for a case)

On 05/09/2016 06:00 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 9 May 2016 16:07:07 -0500, philo wrote:

I never had a TRS-80

but when I got my Ti-99/4, the ability to save my programs on a cassette
seemed amazing.

It was just like having a miniature main-frame!

I missed all of that stuff, Until the 80s, I could get mainframe time
just about any time I wanted it. In the 60s and early 70s we had the
whole system for a few hours a week at a half dozen customers. I could
get a partition just about any time I liked. A program I wrote,
allowing concurrent maintenance on anything running DOS (360-370
style) pretty much made taking the system obsolete for the guys who
used it.
I got into the home computer biz with the IBM PC and a "first day
ship" PC1. I bought it second hand when an IBM guy I knew upgraded to
the brand new PC/AT.

As you saw, I built my first AT from parts (there is no part number
for a case)




That case looks even more home made than anything I could come up with !

The first computer I built was (I think) in 1979 for an independent
study course when I returned to college. (The company I worked for paid
for add'l education.)

At any rate I at least made a metal case for it

On Mon, 9 May 2016 14:45:49 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 4:10:26 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 9 May 2016 12:46:11 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 3:05:05 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 9 May 2016 10:25:25 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Every 5150 had to have an IBM-3270 terminal emulator board installed
so employees could connect to the mainframe. It was interesting to watch
some employees use them as nothing more than glorified terminals while
other's took full advantage of the "computing power" at their fingertips.

There were a few flavors of that card and several software options.

If I recall correctly, there were more than a *few* flavors. It seemed like
they changed flavors with each subsequent order of 5150's as well as when
they ordered spares. You never knew which emulator was installed until you
got on site and looked at the user's machine. Sometimes we had the correct
spare in stock, sometimes we were changing cards as well as software.

Regardless, it sure beat swapping out an entire 3270 terminal.

...snipp...

Until the 3180s came out, we fixed 3270 terminals. (cards, power
supplies and even the CRT) The 3180 was a FRU. Cut open the box and
plug in a new one.

Depending on the situation, we either swapped 'em out and repaired the bad unit in
the shop or fixed them on-site. It depended on the symptoms, whose terminal it was,
location, etc.

e.g. in a secure area, we'd sometimes swap them on a cart *outside* the area and let the
customer hook the good one back up.

When we moved up to PC's things got a little more complicated.

Swapping them out was not an option. They belonged to the customer.
Once we went to "element exchange" machine inventories were a
nightmare.

On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 2:41:03 PM UTC-5, Frank wrote:
On 5/9/2016 12:32 PM, wrote:
I got a call from "windows support" today telling me I had a problem
with my machine. Normally I just tell them to perform an unnatural act
with their mother but today I decided I would play along as long as
they would let me. This "english as a second language" guy gave me the
"grave danger pitch and then started telling me to type in a web
address and I said it keeps saying "bad file or command name". He
asked what was on my PC screen and I said "C:"
They had me reboot a couple times and I made that take a long time,
"wait, I need to set the clock" etc. They got second level involved
and he asked how I get to the internet and I said I just use E-mail.
He asked how I do that and I said AOL.
He kept telling me there must be an internet address bar there and I
said I don't see one and I have never used it.
He asked what version of AOL I was using and I said I don't see a
version, it just says "AOL for DOS".
He asked what kind of machine I had and I said "IBM Personal Computer
XT".
I acted confused when they asked me about the OS. I said it was the
one that was on it when I bought the machine in 1985. After a minute
or two of violent keyboard clicking I said "DOS 2.1"
After another guy got on the phone, they finally asked me if I had
windows and I told them "no, that was the tool of satan". They hung
up.

I tied up 2 or 3 guys for 15 minutes.
Maybe they will take me off their list now.

I tied up one of the telemarketing crooks for several minutes acting
like a befuddled old man which is easy at my age.

Then I came back clearly telling the guy that I was wasting his time.
He told me that I did not have a lot of time left to waste and, you know
what, he was right.

Your time is worth much more than the $1/hr he's making in India.

I have fun with telepests by pretending to be a stroke victim suffering from severe aphasia. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Mean Monster

On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 3:12:58 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 3:33:05 PM UTC-4, philo wrote:
On 05/09/2016 12:37 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Once Dos 3 came out, it could read any version of Dos above it and visa
versa. The commands would not necessarily work but at least there was
some level of compatibility.

We used to punch index holes in the B-side of 5" and 8" floppies to use
them as dual-sided floppies long before dual-sided was an industry standard.

We told the users that we did this for that they should be cautious with
what they stored on the B-side because they were not "certified" by the
manufacturer, but we saw no greater failure rate on the B-side than the
certified side.

It was never the floppy per se that failed, it was typically the drive that
trashed the floppy. Static was the biggest problem. We had TRS-80 units that
were so bad that the users would touch the plastic case of the keyboard and
the daisy wheel printer would spit out a character.

We hung copper straps from the sprinkler system and attached grounding
bracelets to them. Secretaries would ground themselves to the building
before sitting down to do their word processing.




I did a different bit of experimenting.

I still have an IBM PS/2 with the 2.88 meg floppy drive.

Supposedly it required a special floppy, but I had no problems
formatting a standard 1.44 as a 2.88

Speaking of experimenting...

The TRS-80's had a 3-bay 8" floppy expansion unit. It was notorious for
corrupting disks. We'd swap out a drive, test the new one and then put the
case back on. 2 hours/2 days/2 weeks later, we'd get called back for the
same problem.

We finally figured out that if we left the (I forget which) 3 screws along
the (I forget which) side out, we never got called back.

We began to remove those screws before even delivering the units to new users
and the failure rate plummeted.

We also learned to open up every single keyboard and run a ground wire from
the circuit board ground to the plastic case prior to delivery. Static related
disk drive failures were reduced dramatically.

I think that there was something like 4 modifications that we made to the
machines before delivery just to keep the failure rates down. Those are the
dollars that never show up on the correct budget reports. Instead of having
the units delivered straight to the end-user's office where we could just
open them up and put them on their desk, every unit had to be delivered to
our shop, unpacked, modified, repacked and then taken to the end-user.

Some purchasing agent probably got a bonus for negotiating a sweet deal on
the "sales" side of the books, meanwhile the IT maintenance budget for each
department was getting hammered before they even received a computer. But, hey,
those are "internal dollars" so they don't matter.

Did I mention that this was a *former* Fortune 500 company?

Did you work for Tandy Repair? o_O

[8~{} Uncle Shack Monster

On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 7:16:32 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 9 May 2016 14:45:49 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 4:10:26 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 9 May 2016 12:46:11 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 3:05:05 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 9 May 2016 10:25:25 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Every 5150 had to have an IBM-3270 terminal emulator board installed
so employees could connect to the mainframe. It was interesting to watch
some employees use them as nothing more than glorified terminals while
other's took full advantage of the "computing power" at their fingertips.

There were a few flavors of that card and several software options.

If I recall correctly, there were more than a *few* flavors. It seemed like
they changed flavors with each subsequent order of 5150's as well as when
they ordered spares. You never knew which emulator was installed until you
got on site and looked at the user's machine. Sometimes we had the correct
spare in stock, sometimes we were changing cards as well as software.

Regardless, it sure beat swapping out an entire 3270 terminal.

...snipp...

Until the 3180s came out, we fixed 3270 terminals. (cards, power
supplies and even the CRT) The 3180 was a FRU. Cut open the box and
plug in a new one.

Depending on the situation, we either swapped 'em out and repaired the bad unit in
the shop or fixed them on-site. It depended on the symptoms, whose terminal it was,
location, etc.

e.g. in a secure area, we'd sometimes swap them on a cart *outside* the area and let the
customer hook the good one back up.

When we moved up to PC's things got a little more complicated.

Swapping them out was not an option. They belonged to the customer.
Once we went to "element exchange" machine inventories were a
nightmare.

Ahh...I see. You were a 3rd party.

I worked for the same company as my customers, but for a different division.
We charged them for parts and labor, but many of the terminals were owned by IT. As I mentioned earlier, once we moved to PC's and they became capital items
owned by the individual departments, "swaps" went away, except for the
occasional loaner.

On Mon, 09 May 2016 12:32:52 -0400, wrote:

I got a call from "windows support" today telling me I had a problem
with my machine. Normally I just tell them to perform an unnatural act
with their mother but today I decided I would play along as long as
they would let me. This "english as a second language" guy gave me the
"grave danger pitch and then started telling me to type in a web
address and I said it keeps saying "bad file or command name". He
asked what was on my PC screen and I said "C:"
They had me reboot a couple times and I made that take a long time,
"wait, I need to set the clock" etc. They got second level involved
and he asked how I get to the internet and I said I just use E-mail.
He asked how I do that and I said AOL.
He kept telling me there must be an internet address bar there and I
said I don't see one and I have never used it.
He asked what version of AOL I was using and I said I don't see a
version, it just says "AOL for DOS".
He asked what kind of machine I had and I said "IBM Personal Computer
XT".
I acted confused when they asked me about the OS. I said it was the
one that was on it when I bought the machine in 1985. After a minute
or two of violent keyboard clicking I said "DOS 2.1"
After another guy got on the phone, they finally asked me if I had
windows and I told them "no, that was the tool of satan". They hung
up.

I tied up 2 or 3 guys for 15 minutes.
Maybe they will take me off their list now.

This is really funny. Thanks for the laugh!

On Mon, 9 May 2016 18:15:04 -0500, philo wrote:

The first computer I built was (I think) in 1979 for an independent
study course when I returned to college. (The company I worked for paid
for add'l education.)

At any rate I at least made a metal case for it

I had wood working tools, metal working tools, not so much.
There was a whole series of woodies

A woodie cash register
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/woody%203684.jpg
Used for testing printers in the shop

An 8086 PS/2 m-30
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/woody%20m30.jpg

A 286 PS/2 m30
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/woody%20m30-286.jpg

A PS/2 M70 with the custom 5.25 bay
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/woody.jpg

On Mon, 09 May 2016 12:32:52 -0400, wrote in


I tied up 2 or 3 guys for 15 minutes.
Maybe they will take me off their list now.

You have a lot of patience. I just tell them that I don't own a
computer. I use the computer at the public library.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

On 5/9/2016 8:04 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 2:41:03 PM UTC-5, Frank wrote:
On 5/9/2016 12:32 PM, wrote:
I got a call from "windows support" today telling me I had a problem
with my machine. Normally I just tell them to perform an unnatural act
with their mother but today I decided I would play along as long as
they would let me. This "english as a second language" guy gave me the
"grave danger pitch and then started telling me to type in a web
address and I said it keeps saying "bad file or command name". He
asked what was on my PC screen and I said "C:"
They had me reboot a couple times and I made that take a long time,
"wait, I need to set the clock" etc. They got second level involved
and he asked how I get to the internet and I said I just use E-mail.
He asked how I do that and I said AOL.
He kept telling me there must be an internet address bar there and I
said I don't see one and I have never used it.
He asked what version of AOL I was using and I said I don't see a
version, it just says "AOL for DOS".
He asked what kind of machine I had and I said "IBM Personal Computer
XT".
I acted confused when they asked me about the OS. I said it was the
one that was on it when I bought the machine in 1985. After a minute
or two of violent keyboard clicking I said "DOS 2.1"
After another guy got on the phone, they finally asked me if I had
windows and I told them "no, that was the tool of satan". They hung
up.

I tied up 2 or 3 guys for 15 minutes.
Maybe they will take me off their list now.

I tied up one of the telemarketing crooks for several minutes acting
like a befuddled old man which is easy at my age.

Then I came back clearly telling the guy that I was wasting his time.
He told me that I did not have a lot of time left to waste and, you know
what, he was right.

Your time is worth much more than the $1/hr he's making in India.

I have fun with telepests by pretending to be a stroke victim suffering from severe aphasia. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Mean Monster


If it is fun for you, go for it.
I never know how I will answer a call but if talking entertains me I may
do something similar. Otherwise I don't waste my time.
In the past I got under the skin of these people so bad that they would
call me back to complain. "Why you call me ****ing Indian?" was one of
my faves. There was also the woman that complained about my cursing and
I told her, "If you don't want to hear me curse, don't ****ing call me."

On Tue, 10 May 2016 07:50:11 -0500, CRNG
wrote:

On Mon, 09 May 2016 12:32:52 -0400, wrote in


I tied up 2 or 3 guys for 15 minutes.
Maybe they will take me off their list now.

You have a lot of patience. I just tell them that I don't own a
computer. I use the computer at the public library.

Their time is more valuable than mine in this case. I was just trying
to see if that will get me off the list. Nothing else has seemed to
work.

On 05/09/2016 10:51 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 9 May 2016 18:15:04 -0500, philo wrote:

The first computer I built was (I think) in 1979 for an independent
study course when I returned to college. (The company I worked for paid
for add'l education.)

At any rate I at least made a metal case for it

I had wood working tools, metal working tools, not so much.
There was a whole series of woodies

A woodie cash register
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/woody%203684.jpg
Used for testing printers in the shop

An 8086 PS/2 m-30
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/woody%20m30.jpg

A 286 PS/2 m30
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/woody%20m30-286.jpg

A PS/2 M70 with the custom 5.25 bay
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/woody.jpg






They look great!


I used to bread-board things back in the days of 2N107's and Fahnestock
clips.


When the CK722's hit the market, I thought it was just a fad !

On 05/10/2016 07:50 AM, CRNG wrote:
On Mon, 09 May 2016 12:32:52 -0400, wrote in


I tied up 2 or 3 guys for 15 minutes.
Maybe they will take me off their list now.

You have a lot of patience. I just tell them that I don't own a
computer. I use the computer at the public library.




Next time that happens to me, I think I'll ask them how they can be
calling me, then mention that I don't have a phone!

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 1:58:13 PM UTC-4, philo wrote:
On 05/09/2016 10:51 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 9 May 2016 18:15:04 -0500, philo wrote:

The first computer I built was (I think) in 1979 for an independent
study course when I returned to college. (The company I worked for paid
for add'l education.)

At any rate I at least made a metal case for it

I had wood working tools, metal working tools, not so much.
There was a whole series of woodies

A woodie cash register
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/woody%203684.jpg
Used for testing printers in the shop

An 8086 PS/2 m-30
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/woody%20m30.jpg

A 286 PS/2 m30
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/woody%20m30-286.jpg

A PS/2 M70 with the custom 5.25 bay
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/woody.jpg






They look great!


I used to bread-board things back in the days of 2N107's and Fahnestock
clips.



The first job I turned down after college was a position as a trouble shooter
for a company that made some type of device (I forget what it did) that
consisted of two 3' x 3' densely packed wire-wrapped back panels.

Some guy would wire-wrap the panels, some other guy would test the units and
if they didn't work, it would have been my job to find the problem. Imagine
18 sq ft of this - that didn't work...No Thank You!

http://www.homebrewcpu.com/Pictures/...ap_closeup.jpg

On Mon, 09 May 2016 12:32:52 -0400, wrote:

He asked how I do that and I said AOL.
He kept telling me there must be an internet address bar there and I
said I don't see one and I have never used it.
He asked what version of AOL I was using and I said I don't see a
version, it just says "AOL for DOS".
He asked what kind of machine I had and I said "IBM Personal Computer
XT".
I acted confused when they asked me about the OS. I said it was the
one that was on it when I bought the machine in 1985. After a minute
or two of violent keyboard clicking I said "DOS 2.1"
After another guy got on the phone, they finally asked me if I had
windows and I told them "no, that was the tool of satan". They hung
up.


The only website I used while running DOS, was command.com

On 05/10/2016 03:17 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 1:58:13 PM UTC-4, philo wrote:
On 05/09/2016 10:51 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 9 May 2016 18:15:04 -0500, philo wrote:

The first computer I built was (I think) in 1979 for an independent
study course when I returned to college. (The company I worked for paid
for add'l education.)

At any rate I at least made a metal case for it

I had wood working tools, metal working tools, not so much.
There was a whole series of woodies

A woodie cash register
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/woody%203684.jpg
Used for testing printers in the shop

An 8086 PS/2 m-30
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/woody%20m30.jpg

A 286 PS/2 m30
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/woody%20m30-286.jpg

A PS/2 M70 with the custom 5.25 bay
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/woody.jpg






They look great!


I used to bread-board things back in the days of 2N107's and Fahnestock
clips.



The first job I turned down after college was a position as a trouble shooter
for a company that made some type of device (I forget what it did) that
consisted of two 3' x 3' densely packed wire-wrapped back panels.

Some guy would wire-wrap the panels, some other guy would test the units and
if they didn't work, it would have been my job to find the problem. Imagine
18 sq ft of this - that didn't work...No Thank You!

http://www.homebrewcpu.com/Pictures/...ap_closeup.jpg




Yep I am familiar with wire-wrap but have never used it.


For my job, I did a lot of industrial control retro-fits.



Some of them I designed myself and were so hay-wire no one else could
repair the equipment but me. My competitors and co-workers left certain
jobs for me only! Very good job security.

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 8:30:56 AM UTC-5, Frank wrote:
On 5/9/2016 8:04 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 2:41:03 PM UTC-5, Frank wrote:
On 5/9/2016 12:32 PM, wrote:
I got a call from "windows support" today telling me I had a problem
with my machine. Normally I just tell them to perform an unnatural act
with their mother but today I decided I would play along as long as
they would let me. This "english as a second language" guy gave me the
"grave danger pitch and then started telling me to type in a web
address and I said it keeps saying "bad file or command name". He
asked what was on my PC screen and I said "C:"
They had me reboot a couple times and I made that take a long time,
"wait, I need to set the clock" etc. They got second level involved
and he asked how I get to the internet and I said I just use E-mail.
He asked how I do that and I said AOL.
He kept telling me there must be an internet address bar there and I
said I don't see one and I have never used it.
He asked what version of AOL I was using and I said I don't see a
version, it just says "AOL for DOS".
He asked what kind of machine I had and I said "IBM Personal Computer
XT".
I acted confused when they asked me about the OS. I said it was the
one that was on it when I bought the machine in 1985. After a minute
or two of violent keyboard clicking I said "DOS 2.1"
After another guy got on the phone, they finally asked me if I had
windows and I told them "no, that was the tool of satan". They hung
up.

I tied up 2 or 3 guys for 15 minutes.
Maybe they will take me off their list now.

I tied up one of the telemarketing crooks for several minutes acting
like a befuddled old man which is easy at my age.

Then I came back clearly telling the guy that I was wasting his time.
He told me that I did not have a lot of time left to waste and, you know
what, he was right.

Your time is worth much more than the $1/hr he's making in India.

I have fun with telepests by pretending to be a stroke victim suffering from severe aphasia. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Mean Monster


If it is fun for you, go for it.
I never know how I will answer a call but if talking entertains me I may
do something similar. Otherwise I don't waste my time.
In the past I got under the skin of these people so bad that they would
call me back to complain. "Why you call me ****ing Indian?" was one of
my faves. There was also the woman that complained about my cursing and
I told her, "If you don't want to hear me curse, don't ****ing call me."

My roommate here at the center suffered a brain injury in an automobile accident at age 17. He has partial use of his limbs and has severe aphasia. I act as a translator for him because I'm around him all the time. The little fellow was a fullback on his high school football team and is a big sports fan which is why I make sure all the games and sports talk shows are on for him since he can't operate the remote. He's 71 now and has been trapped inside his barely functioning body for more than half a century. I'll hold phone to his face so he can talk to his sister or his brother so I know what aphasia is like. That's why I can imitate someone with aphasia so well when I want to frak with telepests. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Fraking Monster

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 3:17:50 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 1:58:13 PM UTC-4, philo wrote:
On 05/09/2016 10:51 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 9 May 2016 18:15:04 -0500, philo wrote:

The first computer I built was (I think) in 1979 for an independent
study course when I returned to college. (The company I worked for paid
for add'l education.)

At any rate I at least made a metal case for it

I had wood working tools, metal working tools, not so much.
There was a whole series of woodies

A woodie cash register
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/woody%203684.jpg
Used for testing printers in the shop

An 8086 PS/2 m-30
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/woody%20m30.jpg

A 286 PS/2 m30
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/woody%20m30-286.jpg

A PS/2 M70 with the custom 5.25 bay
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/woody.jpg






They look great!


I used to bread-board things back in the days of 2N107's and Fahnestock
clips.



The first job I turned down after college was a position as a trouble shooter
for a company that made some type of device (I forget what it did) that
consisted of two 3' x 3' densely packed wire-wrapped back panels.

Some guy would wire-wrap the panels, some other guy would test the units and
if they didn't work, it would have been my job to find the problem. Imagine
18 sq ft of this - that didn't work...No Thank You!

http://www.homebrewcpu.com/Pictures/...ap_closeup.jpg

A lot of telephone equipment was like that. It's been years since I've seen any wire-wrap telecom gear at a customer location but I know a lot of it is in the telephone closets/rooms in older commercial buildings. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Wired Monster

On 5/10/2016 9:30 AM, Frank wrote:


If it is fun for you, go for it.
I never know how I will answer a call but if talking entertains me I may
do something similar. Otherwise I don't waste my time.

Catch me at the right time and I'll play. My best time so far is 40
minutes.

Credit card call? I have 5 of them and owe $85,000, all maxed out and I
pay 29% interest. Want the number? Can't give it to you since my wife
is out shopping with them. The bitch is hot in bed but sure spends a lot.

Solar panels? About time you called back. I've been waiting 3 days for
the service guy and I'm not generating any power. This is costing my
money.

This is Casmir Sobieski. When I live in Moscow we make electricity with
coal. Best kind of electricity, very powerful. How powerful is yours.
My father work in mines for coal. Are you putting him out of work?

Pay off my student loans? Hey, the *******s are trying to get me to pay
up. I had to buy a new car to get to school so I used the money.
What's the problem with that?

Windows sending error messages? Should I call the police? Let's pray
over the computer (and I chant) Yes, it is rebooting, says Windows 95.
Hold on while I light some incense.