OK maybe a little off topic - dunno.
Last week I replaced my ~ 15 year old Frigidaire front load washer
with an LG 3170 front loader. Like all the new washers - things
are computerized ... the old one was not.
After about 3 or 4 loads, experimenting with the cycles & settings -
it seems like the new washer is programmed ? to fill very slowly -
so slowly that it is almost 15 minutes into the wash cycle before the
load is completely wet ! The fill-periods only last about 4 seconds
- occurring every ~ 3 minutes .. geeeze !
Has anyone else experienced this ?
Repair-guy comes tomorrow - I'm expecting a bunch of excuses ..
.... hope I'm wrong.
John T.







--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 9:49:55 AM UTC-4, wrote:
OK maybe a little off topic - dunno.
Last week I replaced my ~ 15 year old Frigidaire front load washer
with an LG 3170 front loader. Like all the new washers - things
are computerized ... the old one was not.
After about 3 or 4 loads, experimenting with the cycles & settings -
it seems like the new washer is programmed ? to fill very slowly -
so slowly that it is almost 15 minutes into the wash cycle before the
load is completely wet ! The fill-periods only last about 4 seconds
- occurring every ~ 3 minutes .. geeeze !
Has anyone else experienced this ?
Repair-guy comes tomorrow - I'm expecting a bunch of excuses ..
... hope I'm wrong.
John T.


I've used a high-end LG that's about 6 years old. It fills over
several minutes, in incremental steps. Some water goes in, then
it starts it's agitation, after awhile some more water goes in,
etc. That goes on for maybe 5 mins.
So, what you are seeing is likely normal. It's probably to
minimize water usage, by sensing how much is actually needed,
instead of just putting in a given amount. The wash cycle
also takes a lot longer than an old top loader too. If it's
working, the clothes get cleaned, IDK why you'd be calling
service, it just drives up the cost of products. Did you
call their customer service and ask if it's normal?

On 4/14/2016 6:49 AM, wrote:
OK maybe a little off topic - dunno.
Last week I replaced my ~ 15 year old Frigidaire front load washer
with an LG 3170 front loader. Like all the new washers - things
are computerized ... the old one was not.
After about 3 or 4 loads, experimenting with the cycles & settings -
it seems like the new washer is programmed ? to fill very slowly -
so slowly that it is almost 15 minutes into the wash cycle before the
load is completely wet ! The fill-periods only last about 4 seconds
- occurring every ~ 3 minutes .. geeeze !
Has anyone else experienced this ?
Repair-guy comes tomorrow - I'm expecting a bunch of excuses ..
.... hope I'm wrong.

Newer washers (esp front loaders) use very little water. Instead of
"filling" a tub and letting your clothes slosh around in it, they
wet the clothes in stages, tossing them around between.

They may also *drain* many times during a wash cycle -- get the dirt out of
the fabric and flush it away (instead of letting the clothes sit in "dirty
water"). I think our washer actually "looks" at the wash water to decide
if it's performed enough of these cycles whereas an older machine would go
through a fixed routine, regardless of how dirty the clothes may have
(or not!) been.

[One argument against BATHS is that the individual just sits in his
own dirty water whereas one taking a shower is constantly having that
dirty water flushed away!]

We've also noticed that wash cycles are notably LONGER than with
old top-loaders. And, the machine seems to be a bit gentler on
the clothes (than the old "central agitator").

[Your user manual will tell you how long a wash cycle should be.
Our machine displays time remaining on the front panel. If you
are observant, you notice that it lies (and is sometimes done
sooner)]

Also, if you have sensitive skin, some of the HE detergents
can cause problems -- even in their reduced quantities. You
may end up looking for alternatives (and/or, following each
wash cycle with a second "rinse only" cycle -- wonderfully
inefficient!)

Lastly, most front loaders need a periodic "cleaning cycle".
Some require a special cleaner to be added to the cycle
(no clothes involved). Others just do this without a
special "cleaning product". I think all machines alert you
to this requirement when it becomes necessary: "check oil",
etc.

On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 06:55:36 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 9:49:55 AM UTC-4, wrote:
OK maybe a little off topic - dunno.
Last week I replaced my ~ 15 year old Frigidaire front load washer
with an LG 3170 front loader. Like all the new washers - things
are computerized ... the old one was not.
After about 3 or 4 loads, experimenting with the cycles & settings -
it seems like the new washer is programmed ? to fill very slowly -
so slowly that it is almost 15 minutes into the wash cycle before the
load is completely wet ! The fill-periods only last about 4 seconds
- occurring every ~ 3 minutes .. geeeze !
Has anyone else experienced this ?
Repair-guy comes tomorrow - I'm expecting a bunch of excuses ..
... hope I'm wrong.
John T.


I've used a high-end LG that's about 6 years old. It fills over
several minutes, in incremental steps. Some water goes in, then
it starts it's agitation, after awhile some more water goes in,
etc. That goes on for maybe 5 mins.
So, what you are seeing is likely normal. It's probably to
minimize water usage, by sensing how much is actually needed,
instead of just putting in a given amount. The wash cycle
also takes a lot longer than an old top loader too. If it's
working, the clothes get cleaned, IDK why you'd be calling
service, it just drives up the cost of products. Did you
call their customer service and ask if it's normal?


This morning's load got me calling for service.
I chose quick-wash then selected heavy load and extra rinse -
this resulted in a 28 minute cycle according to the display.
After about 12 minutes of wash cycle the clothes were not wet -
I even paused & opened the door to check - mostly dry.
I closed the door & resumed the wash - it gave one more short
fill - washed for about 1 minute - still mostly dry clothes -
then started to drain .. Crikey ! - for all the fancy "smart"
features that these machines have - wouldn't you think that
water-level might play an important part in the process ?
Not to mention that all the extra unnecessary washing time
is actually wasting energy and contributing to the premature
demise of the machine.
If the service tech can get the "dry wash" fill-up time down to
5 minutes or so - fine - 15 minutes is absurd.
John T.



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On 4/14/2016 10:11 AM, wrote:



This morning's load got me calling for service.
I chose quick-wash then selected heavy load and extra rinse -
this resulted in a 28 minute cycle according to the display.
After about 12 minutes of wash cycle the clothes were not wet -
I even paused & opened the door to check - mostly dry.
I closed the door & resumed the wash - it gave one more short
fill - washed for about 1 minute - still mostly dry clothes -
then started to drain .. Crikey ! - for all the fancy "smart"
features that these machines have - wouldn't you think that
water-level might play an important part in the process ?
Not to mention that all the extra unnecessary washing time
is actually wasting energy and contributing to the premature
demise of the machine.
If the service tech can get the "dry wash" fill-up time down to
5 minutes or so - fine - 15 minutes is absurd.
John T.

Wait until you get a new dishwasher. They can take 4 hours to save energy.

You really don't need much water to properly clean clothes. We have a
top loader and it rotates the tub and sprays water over the clothes.
Once wet, the solution is soaking the dirt and getting loose to move
off in the rinse cycle. Before you rant, find out if the clothes are
getting clean, that is what counts.

On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 9:49:55 AM UTC-4, wrote:
OK maybe a little off topic - dunno.
Last week I replaced my ~ 15 year old Frigidaire front load washer
with an LG 3170 front loader. Like all the new washers - things
are computerized ... the old one was not.
After about 3 or 4 loads, experimenting with the cycles & settings -
it seems like the new washer is programmed ? to fill very slowly -
so slowly that it is almost 15 minutes into the wash cycle before the
load is completely wet ! The fill-periods only last about 4 seconds
- occurring every ~ 3 minutes .. geeeze !
Has anyone else experienced this ?
Repair-guy comes tomorrow - I'm expecting a bunch of excuses ..
... hope I'm wrong.
John T.


IIRC (not home now) my manual came with a "time-table" for the various
cycles, detailing what happens during certain time periods. Does your
manual have one of those tables? Maybe it's normal for your model.

While I agree that 15 minutes seems like a long time, my understanding
of front loaders tells me that the water level is determined by a "level
sensor", not a timer.

The time it takes to trigger the level sensor depends on the size of the
load and the absorption rate of the items. I believe that the machines
are looking for a set amount of "unabsorbed water" to trigger the sensor.

Water enters the machine, a few rotations are made to get the clothes
wet (absorption), more water is added, more rotations (more absorption)
until the clothes can't absorb any more water and the sensor triggers.

3-4 minutes minutes between fill sessions does seem longer than mine,
but the pattern is consistent.

On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 10:31:55 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 4/14/2016 10:11 AM, wrote:



This morning's load got me calling for service.
I chose quick-wash then selected heavy load and extra rinse -
this resulted in a 28 minute cycle according to the display.
After about 12 minutes of wash cycle the clothes were not wet -
I even paused & opened the door to check - mostly dry.
I closed the door & resumed the wash - it gave one more short
fill - washed for about 1 minute - still mostly dry clothes -
then started to drain .. Crikey ! - for all the fancy "smart"
features that these machines have - wouldn't you think that
water-level might play an important part in the process ?
Not to mention that all the extra unnecessary washing time
is actually wasting energy and contributing to the premature
demise of the machine.
If the service tech can get the "dry wash" fill-up time down to
5 minutes or so - fine - 15 minutes is absurd.
John T.

Wait until you get a new dishwasher. They can take 4 hours to save energy.

You really don't need much water to properly clean clothes. We have a
top loader and it rotates the tub and sprays water over the clothes.
Once wet, the solution is soaking the dirt and getting loose to move
off in the rinse cycle. Before you rant, find out if the clothes are
getting clean, that is what counts.


I'm not comparing damp to wet here ...
the load was mostly dry = un touched by any amount of H2O -
after 12 - 15 minutes of "washing".
John T.


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 10:11:44 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 06:55:36 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 9:49:55 AM UTC-4, wrote:
OK maybe a little off topic - dunno.
Last week I replaced my ~ 15 year old Frigidaire front load washer
with an LG 3170 front loader. Like all the new washers - things
are computerized ... the old one was not.
After about 3 or 4 loads, experimenting with the cycles & settings -
it seems like the new washer is programmed ? to fill very slowly -
so slowly that it is almost 15 minutes into the wash cycle before the
load is completely wet ! The fill-periods only last about 4 seconds
- occurring every ~ 3 minutes .. geeeze !
Has anyone else experienced this ?
Repair-guy comes tomorrow - I'm expecting a bunch of excuses ..
... hope I'm wrong.
John T.


I've used a high-end LG that's about 6 years old. It fills over
several minutes, in incremental steps. Some water goes in, then
it starts it's agitation, after awhile some more water goes in,
etc. That goes on for maybe 5 mins.
So, what you are seeing is likely normal. It's probably to
minimize water usage, by sensing how much is actually needed,
instead of just putting in a given amount. The wash cycle
also takes a lot longer than an old top loader too. If it's
working, the clothes get cleaned, IDK why you'd be calling
service, it just drives up the cost of products. Did you
call their customer service and ask if it's normal?


This morning's load got me calling for service.
I chose quick-wash then selected heavy load and extra rinse -
this resulted in a 28 minute cycle according to the display.
After about 12 minutes of wash cycle the clothes were not wet -
I even paused & opened the door to check - mostly dry.
I closed the door & resumed the wash - it gave one more short
fill - washed for about 1 minute - still mostly dry clothes -
then started to drain .

If by mostly dry, you mean that they aren't wet at all, then I'd
agree, it sure doesn't sound right. These washers do use very
little water, and the clothes aren't soaked, sloppy with water
like they would be in an old top loader. But if they are actually
dry then they aren't going to get cleaned either.



.. Crikey ! - for all the fancy "smart"
features that these machines have - wouldn't you think that
water-level might play an important part in the process ?

It does, but with all the govt regulations for efficiency,
they are being pushed to use the absolute min water they can.
I hear you, I'd rather have clean clothes, instead of saving
a half gallon of water. But you know what happens when the
hippies run things.

I was at a new Whole Foods supermarket that just opened here.
They have a hot and cold bar with all kinds of tasty stuff.
To hold the food, they have either a paper box or a paper bowl.
Both are 100% recycled/recyclable, the box for some peculiar
reason is made with corners that are ready to pop apart and
turn it into a flat piece. That's annoying, because you keep
thinking the box is going to open up on you. First one I grabbed,
one corner opened just because of the way I picked it up.
But, the best part is that after going through all that, I
walk up to pay for it. All I have is the one food box, I even
left it open because I was going to eat it right there at one
of the provided tables. The checkout person closed the box,
then put it into a medium size paper shopping bag! So much
for conserving resources.



Not to mention that all the extra unnecessary washing time
is actually wasting energy and contributing to the premature
demise of the machine.
If the service tech can get the "dry wash" fill-up time down to
5 minutes or so - fine - 15 minutes is absurd.
John T.


Another interesting feature of the high-end LG's is that without
it connected to power, if you spin the drum and press the display
buttons, it will power up the display. Salesman said that was
due to the energy recovery motor, which may be true. You
could recover the energy from the drum/load as it spins down.
How practical that is, IDK, but for sure if you spin the drum
without it connected, it will power up the display/controls.

On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 10:40:41 AM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 9:49:55 AM UTC-4, wrote:
OK maybe a little off topic - dunno.
Last week I replaced my ~ 15 year old Frigidaire front load washer
with an LG 3170 front loader. Like all the new washers - things
are computerized ... the old one was not.
After about 3 or 4 loads, experimenting with the cycles & settings -
it seems like the new washer is programmed ? to fill very slowly -
so slowly that it is almost 15 minutes into the wash cycle before the
load is completely wet ! The fill-periods only last about 4 seconds
- occurring every ~ 3 minutes .. geeeze !
Has anyone else experienced this ?
Repair-guy comes tomorrow - I'm expecting a bunch of excuses ..
... hope I'm wrong.
John T.


IIRC (not home now) my manual came with a "time-table" for the various
cycles, detailing what happens during certain time periods. Does your
manual have one of those tables? Maybe it's normal for your model.

While I agree that 15 minutes seems like a long time, my understanding
of front loaders tells me that the water level is determined by a "level
sensor", not a timer.

The time it takes to trigger the level sensor depends on the size of the
load and the absorption rate of the items. I believe that the machines
are looking for a set amount of "unabsorbed water" to trigger the sensor.

Water enters the machine, a few rotations are made to get the clothes
wet (absorption), more water is added, more rotations (more absorption)
until the clothes can't absorb any more water and the sensor triggers.

3-4 minutes minutes between fill sessions does seem longer than mine,
but the pattern is consistent.

Agree, that's what goes on with the LG I had experience with. It
adds water a little at a time, sensing somehow how wet the clothes
are, then after a few mins, if it thinks it needs more, it adds
some more and repeats. But 15 mins in, if his clothes are really
still mostly dry, then it sounds like something is wrong. But he
also didn't answer as to what ultimately happens, ie after it's
all over, are the clothes clean or not?

On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 08:53:00 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 10:40:41 AM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 9:49:55 AM UTC-4, wrote:
OK maybe a little off topic - dunno.
Last week I replaced my ~ 15 year old Frigidaire front load washer
with an LG 3170 front loader. Like all the new washers - things
are computerized ... the old one was not.
After about 3 or 4 loads, experimenting with the cycles & settings -
it seems like the new washer is programmed ? to fill very slowly -
so slowly that it is almost 15 minutes into the wash cycle before the
load is completely wet ! The fill-periods only last about 4 seconds
- occurring every ~ 3 minutes .. geeeze !
Has anyone else experienced this ?
Repair-guy comes tomorrow - I'm expecting a bunch of excuses ..
... hope I'm wrong.
John T.


IIRC (not home now) my manual came with a "time-table" for the various
cycles, detailing what happens during certain time periods. Does your
manual have one of those tables? Maybe it's normal for your model.

While I agree that 15 minutes seems like a long time, my understanding
of front loaders tells me that the water level is determined by a "level
sensor", not a timer.

The time it takes to trigger the level sensor depends on the size of the
load and the absorption rate of the items. I believe that the machines
are looking for a set amount of "unabsorbed water" to trigger the sensor.

Water enters the machine, a few rotations are made to get the clothes
wet (absorption), more water is added, more rotations (more absorption)
until the clothes can't absorb any more water and the sensor triggers.

3-4 minutes minutes between fill sessions does seem longer than mine,
but the pattern is consistent.

Agree, that's what goes on with the LG I had experience with. It
adds water a little at a time, sensing somehow how wet the clothes
are, then after a few mins, if it thinks it needs more, it adds
some more and repeats. But 15 mins in, if his clothes are really
still mostly dry, then it sounds like something is wrong. But he
also didn't answer as to what ultimately happens, ie after it's
all over, are the clothes clean or not?


They will be now - I re-washed the whole load -
on Normal cycle - default settings -
the timer indicated 1 hour 28 minutes at the start of the cycle !
.. at risk of repeating myself .. Geeeze.
John T.

On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 11:53:05 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 10:40:41 AM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 9:49:55 AM UTC-4, wrote:
OK maybe a little off topic - dunno.
Last week I replaced my ~ 15 year old Frigidaire front load washer
with an LG 3170 front loader. Like all the new washers - things
are computerized ... the old one was not.
After about 3 or 4 loads, experimenting with the cycles & settings -
it seems like the new washer is programmed ? to fill very slowly -
so slowly that it is almost 15 minutes into the wash cycle before the
load is completely wet ! The fill-periods only last about 4 seconds
- occurring every ~ 3 minutes .. geeeze !
Has anyone else experienced this ?
Repair-guy comes tomorrow - I'm expecting a bunch of excuses ..
... hope I'm wrong.
John T.


IIRC (not home now) my manual came with a "time-table" for the various
cycles, detailing what happens during certain time periods. Does your
manual have one of those tables? Maybe it's normal for your model.

While I agree that 15 minutes seems like a long time, my understanding
of front loaders tells me that the water level is determined by a "level
sensor", not a timer.

The time it takes to trigger the level sensor depends on the size of the
load and the absorption rate of the items. I believe that the machines
are looking for a set amount of "unabsorbed water" to trigger the sensor.

Water enters the machine, a few rotations are made to get the clothes
wet (absorption), more water is added, more rotations (more absorption)
until the clothes can't absorb any more water and the sensor triggers.

3-4 minutes minutes between fill sessions does seem longer than mine,
but the pattern is consistent.

Agree, that's what goes on with the LG I had experience with. It
adds water a little at a time, sensing somehow how wet the clothes
are, then after a few mins, if it thinks it needs more, it adds
some more and repeats. But 15 mins in, if his clothes are really
still mostly dry, then it sounds like something is wrong. But he
also didn't answer as to what ultimately happens, ie after it's
all over, are the clothes clean or not?

Could be a clogged inlet valve, although I think the unit would keep
adding water until the level sensor is triggered. However, this logic
might be in play:

1 - Add Wate
2 - Rotate drum
3 - If(AND(lev_sens 1, cyc_time 15:00) Then GoTo 1
4 - Enter Wash Cycle

In other words, if the level sensor hasn't trigger in 15 minutes, then
the heck with the level, let's start washing.

On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 12:04:30 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 08:53:00 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 10:40:41 AM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 9:49:55 AM UTC-4, wrote:
OK maybe a little off topic - dunno.
Last week I replaced my ~ 15 year old Frigidaire front load washer
with an LG 3170 front loader. Like all the new washers - things
are computerized ... the old one was not.
After about 3 or 4 loads, experimenting with the cycles & settings -
it seems like the new washer is programmed ? to fill very slowly -
so slowly that it is almost 15 minutes into the wash cycle before the
load is completely wet ! The fill-periods only last about 4 seconds
- occurring every ~ 3 minutes .. geeeze !
Has anyone else experienced this ?
Repair-guy comes tomorrow - I'm expecting a bunch of excuses ..
... hope I'm wrong.
John T.


IIRC (not home now) my manual came with a "time-table" for the various
cycles, detailing what happens during certain time periods. Does your
manual have one of those tables? Maybe it's normal for your model.

While I agree that 15 minutes seems like a long time, my understanding
of front loaders tells me that the water level is determined by a "level
sensor", not a timer.

The time it takes to trigger the level sensor depends on the size of the
load and the absorption rate of the items. I believe that the machines
are looking for a set amount of "unabsorbed water" to trigger the sensor.

Water enters the machine, a few rotations are made to get the clothes
wet (absorption), more water is added, more rotations (more absorption)
until the clothes can't absorb any more water and the sensor triggers.

3-4 minutes minutes between fill sessions does seem longer than mine,
but the pattern is consistent.

Agree, that's what goes on with the LG I had experience with. It
adds water a little at a time, sensing somehow how wet the clothes
are, then after a few mins, if it thinks it needs more, it adds
some more and repeats. But 15 mins in, if his clothes are really
still mostly dry, then it sounds like something is wrong. But he
also didn't answer as to what ultimately happens, ie after it's
all over, are the clothes clean or not?


They will be now - I re-washed the whole load -
on Normal cycle - default settings -
the timer indicated 1 hour 28 minutes at the start of the cycle !
.. at risk of repeating myself .. Geeeze.
John T.

The hour and a half sounds about right. They do take a lot longer.
You can probably sell tickets for people that want to watch. It's
kind of interesting. The drum doesn't just go one way, it goes
one way for awhile, then reverses, slow up, speeds down, water
comes in/out, the spin cycle is at turbine like speeds....
Not like the old top loader.

I actually did a test between my 20 year old top loader and the LG,
using identical towels with mustard, ketchup, dirt, etc. Used Tide
for both, regular for the top loader, the high-eff toploader version
of Tide for the LG. The results were that they both did about the
same. One was better at some stains, worse at others and vice-versa,
so there were differences, but I couldn't say that one did a better
job overall than the other. The amount of time it takes can be a
factor if you're in a hurry to get something clean, which happens
once in awhile.

On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 12:04:30 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 08:53:00 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 10:40:41 AM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 9:49:55 AM UTC-4, wrote:
OK maybe a little off topic - dunno.
Last week I replaced my ~ 15 year old Frigidaire front load washer
with an LG 3170 front loader. Like all the new washers - things
are computerized ... the old one was not.
After about 3 or 4 loads, experimenting with the cycles & settings -
it seems like the new washer is programmed ? to fill very slowly -
so slowly that it is almost 15 minutes into the wash cycle before the
load is completely wet ! The fill-periods only last about 4 seconds
- occurring every ~ 3 minutes .. geeeze !
Has anyone else experienced this ?
Repair-guy comes tomorrow - I'm expecting a bunch of excuses ..
... hope I'm wrong.
John T.


IIRC (not home now) my manual came with a "time-table" for the various
cycles, detailing what happens during certain time periods. Does your
manual have one of those tables? Maybe it's normal for your model.

While I agree that 15 minutes seems like a long time, my understanding
of front loaders tells me that the water level is determined by a "level
sensor", not a timer.

The time it takes to trigger the level sensor depends on the size of the
load and the absorption rate of the items. I believe that the machines
are looking for a set amount of "unabsorbed water" to trigger the sensor.

Water enters the machine, a few rotations are made to get the clothes
wet (absorption), more water is added, more rotations (more absorption)
until the clothes can't absorb any more water and the sensor triggers.

3-4 minutes minutes between fill sessions does seem longer than mine,
but the pattern is consistent.

Agree, that's what goes on with the LG I had experience with. It
adds water a little at a time, sensing somehow how wet the clothes
are, then after a few mins, if it thinks it needs more, it adds
some more and repeats. But 15 mins in, if his clothes are really
still mostly dry, then it sounds like something is wrong. But he
also didn't answer as to what ultimately happens, ie after it's
all over, are the clothes clean or not?


They will be now - I re-washed the whole load -
on Normal cycle - default settings -
the timer indicated 1 hour 28 minutes at the start of the cycle !
.. at risk of repeating myself .. Geeeze.
John T.

My longest cycle - Normal cycle, with Heavy dirt level option, extra rinse
and extra spin is 58 minutes.

In 1:28, I could wash *and dry* some loads.

wrote in message ...

OK maybe a little off topic - dunno.
Last week I replaced my ~ 15 year old Frigidaire front load washer
with an LG 3170 front loader. Like all the new washers - things
are computerized ... the old one was not.
After about 3 or 4 loads, experimenting with the cycles & settings -
it seems like the new washer is programmed ? to fill very slowly -
so slowly that it is almost 15 minutes into the wash cycle before the
load is completely wet !
( The fill-periods only last about 4 seconds
****You mean running)
- occurring every ~ 3 minutes .. geeeze !
Has anyone else experienced this ?
Repair-guy comes tomorrow - I'm expecting a bunch of excuses ..
.... hope I'm wrong.
John T.

**Yes you are saving on water but paying in Electricity
**I believe is call they high Efficiency. (I own one)bull ****)





--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

trader_4 posted for all of us...



On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 12:04:30 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 08:53:00 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 10:40:41 AM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, April 14, 2016 at 9:49:55 AM UTC-4, wrote:
OK maybe a little off topic - dunno.
Last week I replaced my ~ 15 year old Frigidaire front load washer
with an LG 3170 front loader. Like all the new washers - things
are computerized ... the old one was not.
After about 3 or 4 loads, experimenting with the cycles & settings -
it seems like the new washer is programmed ? to fill very slowly -
so slowly that it is almost 15 minutes into the wash cycle before the
load is completely wet ! The fill-periods only last about 4 seconds
- occurring every ~ 3 minutes .. geeeze !
Has anyone else experienced this ?
Repair-guy comes tomorrow - I'm expecting a bunch of excuses ..
... hope I'm wrong.
John T.


IIRC (not home now) my manual came with a "time-table" for the various
cycles, detailing what happens during certain time periods. Does your
manual have one of those tables? Maybe it's normal for your model.

While I agree that 15 minutes seems like a long time, my understanding
of front loaders tells me that the water level is determined by a "level
sensor", not a timer.

The time it takes to trigger the level sensor depends on the size of the
load and the absorption rate of the items. I believe that the machines
are looking for a set amount of "unabsorbed water" to trigger the sensor.

Water enters the machine, a few rotations are made to get the clothes
wet (absorption), more water is added, more rotations (more absorption)
until the clothes can't absorb any more water and the sensor triggers.

3-4 minutes minutes between fill sessions does seem longer than mine,
but the pattern is consistent.

Agree, that's what goes on with the LG I had experience with. It
adds water a little at a time, sensing somehow how wet the clothes
are, then after a few mins, if it thinks it needs more, it adds
some more and repeats. But 15 mins in, if his clothes are really
still mostly dry, then it sounds like something is wrong. But he
also didn't answer as to what ultimately happens, ie after it's
all over, are the clothes clean or not?


They will be now - I re-washed the whole load -
on Normal cycle - default settings -
the timer indicated 1 hour 28 minutes at the start of the cycle !
.. at risk of repeating myself .. Geeeze.
John T.

The hour and a half sounds about right. They do take a lot longer.
You can probably sell tickets for people that want to watch. It's
kind of interesting. The drum doesn't just go one way, it goes
one way for awhile, then reverses, slow up, speeds down, water
comes in/out, the spin cycle is at turbine like speeds....
Not like the old top loader.

I actually did a test between my 20 year old top loader and the LG,
using identical towels with mustard, ketchup, dirt, etc. Used Tide
for both, regular for the top loader, the high-eff toploader version
of Tide for the LG. The results were that they both did about the
same. One was better at some stains, worse at others and vice-versa,
so there were differences, but I couldn't say that one did a better
job overall than the other. The amount of time it takes can be a
factor if you're in a hurry to get something clean, which happens
once in awhile.

Like your mother told you: Put on clean underwear because you never know if
you are going to get in an accident.

I know when I was on the ambulance that was the first thing you did-undie
inspection. No need for signs, symptoms or observations; the undies told it
all. *NOT* ;~)

You know you are in trouble when they give you the alien anal probe in the
ER...
--
Tekkie

On 04/14/2016 11:51 AM, Tony944 wrote:


wrote in message ...
OK maybe a little off topic - dunno.
Last week I replaced my ~ 15 year old Frigidaire front load washer
with an LG 3170 front loader. Like all the new washers - things
are computerized ... the old one was not.
After about 3 or 4 loads, experimenting with the cycles & settings -
it seems like the new washer is programmed ? to fill very slowly -
so slowly that it is almost 15 minutes into the wash cycle before the
load is completely wet ! ( The fill-periods only last about 4 seconds
****You mean running)
- occurring every ~ 3 minutes .. geeeze !
Has anyone else experienced this ?
Repair-guy comes tomorrow - I'm expecting a bunch of excuses ..
... hope I'm wrong.
John T.
**Yes you are saving on water but paying in Electricity
**I believe is call they high Efficiency. (I own one)bull ****)




Glad the warning was posted here.

I looked at Sears and they still have the old electro-mechanical dial
type for $300 - $400 bucks

Will absolutely not got one of those electronic models

Glad the warning was posted here.
I looked at Sears and they still have the old electro-mechanical dial
type for $300 - $400 bucks
Will absolutely not got one of those electronic models


I was set on a front loader - the only one I could find with
old-style controls was a $ 2800. Huebsch.
I did consider it briefly - then opted for the $ 800. LG.
Your Sears unit was a top-loader, I suspect ?
John T.

On 4/14/2016 6:28 PM, philo wrote:
On 04/14/2016 11:51 AM, Tony944 wrote:


wrote in message ...
OK maybe a little off topic - dunno.
Last week I replaced my ~ 15 year old Frigidaire front load washer
with an LG 3170 front loader. Like all the new washers - things
are computerized ... the old one was not.
After about 3 or 4 loads, experimenting with the cycles & settings -
it seems like the new washer is programmed ? to fill very slowly -
so slowly that it is almost 15 minutes into the wash cycle before the
load is completely wet ! ( The fill-periods only last about 4 seconds
****You mean running)
- occurring every ~ 3 minutes .. geeeze !
Has anyone else experienced this ?
Repair-guy comes tomorrow - I'm expecting a bunch of excuses ..
... hope I'm wrong.
John T.
**Yes you are saving on water but paying in Electricity
**I believe is call they high Efficiency. (I own one)bull ****)

Glad the warning was posted here.

I looked at Sears and they still have the old electro-mechanical dial type for
$300 - $400 bucks

Will absolutely not got one of those electronic models

The electronic *controls* are not significant problems. Most of
the problems seem to be mechanical ones (door latches, shock mounts,
pumps, etc.

OTOH, the fact that the front-loaders inherently require such "precise"
control over the "tub" (e.g., to rock the clothes back and forth to
soak them well; to toss them around if an imbalance is detected; etc.)
has me worried what will happen when the electronic *drive* quits.

By contrast, an old top-loader has only two "motor functions"
(agitate and spin) that are handled mechanically.

Glad the warning was posted here.
I looked at Sears and they still have the old electro-mechanical dial type for
$300 - $400 bucks
Will absolutely not got one of those electronic models



The electronic *controls* are not significant problems. Most of
the problems seem to be mechanical ones (door latches, shock mounts,
pumps, etc.
OTOH, the fact that the front-loaders inherently require such "precise"
control over the "tub" (e.g., to rock the clothes back and forth to
soak them well; to toss them around if an imbalance is detected; etc.)
has me worried what will happen when the electronic *drive* quits.
By contrast, an old top-loader has only two "motor functions"
(agitate and spin) that are handled mechanically.



At this point - 1 week into the life of the washing machine -
the durability & repair ramifications of the controls are not
in question - but the logic that seems to be built into those
controls is very suspect. I can't understand how anything has
improved, in any way, over the old-style timer & switches.
With my old front loader I chose water temp; spin speed;
and extra rinse via 3 simple switches ; then set the timer knob
for shorter or longer wash cycles. The tub did it's reversing thing
and it's slower to faster spin speed just fine, got everything wet at
the start of the wash cycle - not 12 minutes into the wash cycle.
I doubt that the water usage was much greater - just much smarter.
John T.

On 4/15/2016 4:07 AM, wrote:


Glad the warning was posted here.
I looked at Sears and they still have the old electro-mechanical dial type for
$300 - $400 bucks
Will absolutely not got one of those electronic models



The electronic *controls* are not significant problems. Most of
the problems seem to be mechanical ones (door latches, shock mounts,
pumps, etc.
OTOH, the fact that the front-loaders inherently require such "precise"
control over the "tub" (e.g., to rock the clothes back and forth to
soak them well; to toss them around if an imbalance is detected; etc.)
has me worried what will happen when the electronic *drive* quits.
By contrast, an old top-loader has only two "motor functions"
(agitate and spin) that are handled mechanically.

At this point - 1 week into the life of the washing machine -
the durability & repair ramifications of the controls are not
in question - but the logic that seems to be built into those
controls is very suspect. I can't understand how anything has
improved, in any way, over the old-style timer & switches.
With my old front loader I chose water temp; spin speed;
and extra rinse via 3 simple switches ; then set the timer knob
for shorter or longer wash cycles. The tub did it's reversing thing
and it's slower to faster spin speed just fine, got everything wet at
the start of the wash cycle - not 12 minutes into the wash cycle.

Our (front load) washer essentially has three settings:
- temperature (hot/cold, warm/warm, warm/cold, cold/cold = wash/rinse)
- spin (none, low, medium, high)
- soil level (light, normal, heavy)
A large rotary knob allows you to pick from types of wash cycles -- which
basically is just a shortcut for these three switch settings (though some
add steam to the cycle)

I.e., our "temperature" control is the same as yours (assuming you have the
same four combinations); our "spin" coincides with yours; and our "soil
level" essentially adjusts the overall length of the wash cycle. We don't have
an "extra spin" capability (though there is a "rinse+spin" cycle).

The thing that is "missing" is a "soak" ability; i.e., you can't throw items
into the tub, let it FILL with water, then PAUSE the cycle while things
sit and stew, indefinitely.

We don't set a timer as the machine looks at the clarity of the waste
water to decide if more washing is needed -- or if the process can end, now.
So, we don't have to "guess correctly" and ensure the machine doesn't WASTE
any electricity on an *unnecessarily* prolonged wash! Nor run the load
through a second time if we guessed too short!

I doubt that the water usage was much greater - just much smarter.

Newer (front loaders) models use ~10G of water for a load. An older
top loader would use more like 30G for the same load.

An older machine uses about twice the electricity of a newer model.

Also, newer models leave the clothes "drier" than older models -- which
translates into energy savings in the drying cycle.

You can also fit more clothes in a new front loader than an old top loader
(no agitator taking up space) so do fewer loads, overall.

If you don't believe this, you should be able to find corroborating
data on-line complete with actual numbers (for water and electric
usage). Or, look in your owner's manual.

[Of course, you'll be hard pressed to get that same information for
a 20 year old unit as it wasn't a "concern" back then.]

We haven't been happy with the longer wash cycles. But, have been very
pleased with the quality of wash! We've just learned to plan on WAITING
for the machine longer than we did in the past (but, waiting is easy!)

On Friday, April 15, 2016 at 7:07:55 AM UTC-4, wrote:

Glad the warning was posted here.
I looked at Sears and they still have the old electro-mechanical dial type for
$300 - $400 bucks
Will absolutely not got one of those electronic models



The electronic *controls* are not significant problems. Most of
the problems seem to be mechanical ones (door latches, shock mounts,
pumps, etc.
OTOH, the fact that the front-loaders inherently require such "precise"
control over the "tub" (e.g., to rock the clothes back and forth to
soak them well; to toss them around if an imbalance is detected; etc.)
has me worried what will happen when the electronic *drive* quits.
By contrast, an old top-loader has only two "motor functions"
(agitate and spin) that are handled mechanically.



At this point - 1 week into the life of the washing machine -
the durability & repair ramifications of the controls are not
in question - but the logic that seems to be built into those
controls is very suspect. I can't understand how anything has
improved, in any way, over the old-style timer & switches.

The new ones use substantially less water per load and also less
electric energy than the old ones. I doubt most people would
ever recover the increased cost, both upfront and for possible
repairs. And as you've noted, there are other disadvantages,
like the substantially longer wash cycle times. But if you're
a tree hugging hippie and it makes you feel good, then there's
that.



With my old front loader I chose water temp; spin speed;
and extra rinse via 3 simple switches ; then set the timer knob
for shorter or longer wash cycles. The tub did it's reversing thing
and it's slower to faster spin speed just fine, got everything wet at
the start of the wash cycle - not 12 minutes into the wash cycle.
I doubt that the water usage was much greater - just much smarter.
John T.

I think you're wrong on that. The old front loaders, you coud see
water sloshing around, with the tub maybe 1/4 to 1/3 full. The new
ones, there is very little water in there. If you want to say that
the cost of that water isn't that great, I'd agree that for most
people, it's not. The biggest cost is likely the energy to heat the
water. But for municipalities, if you had everyone using these new
low water usage models it does help reduce the overall sewage needing
to be treated.

On 4/14/2016 9:28 PM, philo wrote:
On 04/14/2016 11:51 AM, Tony944 wrote:

**Yes you are saving on water but paying in Electricity
**I believe is call they high Efficiency. (I own one)bull ****)


Glad the warning was posted here.

I looked at Sears and they still have the old electro-mechanical dial
type for $300 - $400 bucks

Will absolutely not got one of those electronic models


Usenet, and Consumer Reports. Both helping
people to make wise decisions. Based on the
experiences of others.

One more NO vote for dry cleaning washing
machine front loaders.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 4/14/2016 10:57 PM, wrote:
I was set on a front loader - the only one I could find with
old-style controls was a $ 2800. Huebsch.
I did consider it briefly - then opted for the $ 800. LG.
Your Sears unit was a top-loader, I suspect ?
John T.


But, comrade? Isn't it worth any ammount of
money to save the planet we live on? Al Gore
must be horrified with your choice.

BTW, my washing machine is a Whirlpool top
loader. Belt drive, not direct drive. The last
owners left it because it needed a $65 part.
I've repaired it a couple times in the 22
years I've lived here. Still works.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 4/15/2016 8:07 AM, Don Y wrote:


The thing that is "missing" is a "soak" ability; i.e., you can't throw
items
into the tub, let it FILL with water, then PAUSE the cycle while things
sit and stew, indefinitely.

Our top load still has that. I think it was used once in two years so
not a big deal for us.




You can also fit more clothes in a new front loader than an old top loader
(no agitator taking up space) so do fewer loads, overall.

New top loaders are improved too. Agitator is gone. There are larger
capacity models available, but it is a long reach to the botgtom of the
tub for short people.



We haven't been happy with the longer wash cycles. But, have been very
pleased with the quality of wash! We've just learned to plan on WAITING
for the machine longer than we did in the past (but, waiting is easy!)

Cycle time is not a concern for s. With just the two of us, only about
3 loads a week are done. Most times I put it on at night and empty it
in the morning so as long as the cycles is less than about 8 hours, I'm
good to go.

Normal wash stuff is about 48 minutes. Whites, sheets,bulky stuff is
about 1H 20M.

On 04/14/2016 09:57 PM, wrote:


Glad the warning was posted here.
I looked at Sears and they still have the old electro-mechanical dial
type for $300 - $400 bucks
Will absolutely not got one of those electronic models


I was set on a front loader - the only one I could find with
old-style controls was a $ 2800. Huebsch.
I did consider it briefly - then opted for the $ 800. LG.
Your Sears unit was a top-loader, I suspect ?
John T.






Yes, it was a top loader...

I guess it makes a difference to some people but I can't imagine why a
front loader would be better. The only thing I've seen is that front
loaders are more prone to mold

On 04/14/2016 10:38 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 4/14/2016 6:28 PM, philo wrote:
On 04/14/2016 11:51 AM, Tony944 wrote:


wrote in message ...
OK maybe a little off topic - dunno.
Last week I replaced my ~ 15 year old Frigidaire front load washer
with an LG 3170 front loader. Like all the new washers - things
are computerized ... the old one was not.
After about 3 or 4 loads, experimenting with the cycles & settings -
it seems like the new washer is programmed ? to fill very slowly -
so slowly that it is almost 15 minutes into the wash cycle before the
load is completely wet ! ( The fill-periods only last about 4 seconds
****You mean running)
- occurring every ~ 3 minutes .. geeeze !
Has anyone else experienced this ?
Repair-guy comes tomorrow - I'm expecting a bunch of excuses ..
... hope I'm wrong.
John T.
**Yes you are saving on water but paying in Electricity
**I believe is call they high Efficiency. (I own one)bull ****)

Glad the warning was posted here.

I looked at Sears and they still have the old electro-mechanical dial
type for
$300 - $400 bucks

Will absolutely not got one of those electronic models

The electronic *controls* are not significant problems. Most of
the problems seem to be mechanical ones (door latches, shock mounts,
pumps, etc.


But they add considerably to the cost.

The electronic models are twice the price and to me a waste of money.

My Whirlpool washer is 32 years old and has had /zero/ problems.
When I bought it, it was recommend because it was beltless and
theoretically less prone to problems. I doubt that kind of quality
exists anymore.


OTOH, the fact that the front-loaders inherently require such "precise"
control over the "tub" (e.g., to rock the clothes back and forth to
soak them well; to toss them around if an imbalance is detected; etc.)
has me worried what will happen when the electronic *drive* quits.

By contrast, an old top-loader has only two "motor functions"
(agitate and spin) that are handled mechanically.

On 04/15/2016 06:07 AM, wrote:




snip


At this point - 1 week into the life of the washing machine -
the durability & repair ramifications of the controls are not
in question - but the logic that seems to be built into those
controls is very suspect. I can't understand how anything has
improved, in any way, over the old-style timer & switches.
With my old front loader I chose water temp; spin speed;
and extra rinse via 3 simple switches ; then set the timer knob
for shorter or longer wash cycles. The tub did it's reversing thing
and it's slower to faster spin speed just fine, got everything wet at
the start of the wash cycle - not 12 minutes into the wash cycle.
I doubt that the water usage was much greater - just much smarter.
John T.




Yep. though hardly 'state of the art' nothing simpler than those
electro-mechanical timers.
Even though they may severely "jack up" the price, they are still way
cheaper than an electronic control board.

Glad the warning was posted here.
I looked at Sears and they still have the old electro-mechanical dial
type for $300 - $400 bucks
Will absolutely not got one of those electronic models


I was set on a front loader - the only one I could find with
old-style controls was a $ 2800. Huebsch.
I did consider it briefly - then opted for the $ 800. LG.
Your Sears unit was a top-loader, I suspect ?
John T.


Yes, it was a top loader...
I guess it makes a difference to some people but I can't imagine why a
front loader would be better. The only thing I've seen is that front
loaders are more prone to mold


When we bought our first front-loader - the one I've just replaced -
I was a bit dubious also - but the spin speed was great
because it helped us save on dryer costs - big time.
The un-balance issue was not eliminated completely - but greatly
reduced - the old Inglis could be found dancing around the room
during the worst situations ! .. never nearly that bad with the front
loader. Water savings were a factor over the old Inglis top-loader.
.... much less so when comparing the old front-loader to the new
front-loader. Modern top loaders can spin ~ 1000 now
which is equal to our old front loader - newer front loader spins
up to 1300 - again less of a factor.
When I replaced the spider on the old washer - I was impressed
with the design simplicity - if it wasn't for the bearing issue
every 7 years - I could see that washer lasting 20 + years
with only some minor maintenance items.
John T.

On Friday, April 15, 2016 at 9:13:16 AM UTC-5, philo wrote:

Yep. though hardly 'state of the art' nothing simpler than those
electro-mechanical timers.
Even though they may severely "jack up" the price, they are still way
cheaper than an electronic control board.

But if the timer is assembled in the States and the PCB is made in Chine...the latter would be cheaper.

On 04/15/2016 09:28 AM, bob_villain wrote:
On Friday, April 15, 2016 at 9:13:16 AM UTC-5, philo wrote:

Yep. though hardly 'state of the art' nothing simpler than those
electro-mechanical timers.
Even though they may severely "jack up" the price, they are still way
cheaper than an electronic control board.

But if the timer is assembled in the States and the PCB is made in Chine...the latter would be cheaper.




Cheaper to manufacture, but the markup for electronic control is sky high!

On 04/15/2016 09:23 AM, wrote:
Xsituations ! .. never nearly that bad with the front
loader. Water savings were a factor over the old Inglis top-loader.
... much less so when comparing the old front-loader to the new
front-loader. Modern top loaders can spin ~ 1000 now
which is equal to our old front loader - newer front loader spins
up to 1300 - again less of a factor.
When I replaced the spider on the old washer - I was impressed
with the design simplicity - if it wasn't for the bearing issue
every 7 years - I could see that washer lasting 20 + years
with only some minor maintenance items.
John T.




well for me, 32 years without even one small issue was not too bad.

and it's still going

On Friday, April 15, 2016 at 9:28:43 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/15/2016 8:07 AM, Don Y wrote:


The thing that is "missing" is a "soak" ability; i.e., you can't throw
items
into the tub, let it FILL with water, then PAUSE the cycle while things
sit and stew, indefinitely.

Our top load still has that. I think it was used once in two years so
not a big deal for us.


Every top load washer I've had you could do that. Just start it going, when it
fills and first starts to agitate, pull the control knob out. Wait as
long as you like, then resume. Some models do have a setting on the knob
just for that, where it will do it, stop without you having to pull the knob.
Not something used here very often, so not a factor.

On 4/15/2016 6:29 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/15/2016 8:07 AM, Don Y wrote:

The thing that is "missing" is a "soak" ability; i.e., you can't throw
items
into the tub, let it FILL with water, then PAUSE the cycle while things
sit and stew, indefinitely.

Our top load still has that. I think it was used once in two years so not a
big deal for us.

Shrotly after our purchase, I wanted to "soak" something. Stared
at the washer for quite some time before I realized that "soak"
just is incompatible with a front loader (you can't "fill" it!)

You can also fit more clothes in a new front loader than an old top loader
(no agitator taking up space) so do fewer loads, overall.

New top loaders are improved too. Agitator is gone. There are larger capacity
models available, but it is a long reach to the botgtom of the tub for short
people.

When we were looking, there were many comments about poor agitation/mixing
of clothes with the agitator-less top loaders. You look inside and it
seems like it should be exactly the same as for a front loader!

Then, you watch how the front loader "tosses" the clothes and realize you can't
do the same thing spinning on a vertical axis.

Reaching to the *back* of the drum/tub is just as difficult as bottom of
tub. And, as things tend to be much drier, it is not uncommon for something
to be plastered to the "top" of the drum -- requiring you to roll it just
to check for that possibility.

We haven't been happy with the longer wash cycles. But, have been very
pleased with the quality of wash! We've just learned to plan on WAITING
for the machine longer than we did in the past (but, waiting is easy!)

Cycle time is not a concern for s. With just the two of us, only about 3 loads
a week are done. Most times I put it on at night and empty it in the morning
so as long as the cycles is less than about 8 hours, I'm good to go.

I'd guess we're in the 2-3 cycles/week usage pattern. Some weeks I won't
do any wash and just let "dirty" jeans accumulate. But, when I do them,
it's always on "heavy soil" cycle as I tend to be WORKING in them. One
of the cycles I use is close to 2 hrs washing. But, machine just sits
there quietly, patiently tossing things around in slow motion so we don't
even hear it in the adjoining kitchen (door to laundry is never shut)

Normal wash stuff is about 48 minutes. Whites, sheets,bulky stuff is about 1H 20M.

I just checked: "Sanitize" cycle for heavy soil is 2:02 but the normal cycle
is ~55 minutes (for heavy soil). I think the shortest cycle ("quick wash")
is only about 25 minutes.

On 4/15/2016 7:10 AM, philo wrote:
On 04/14/2016 10:38 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 4/14/2016 6:28 PM, philo wrote:
On 04/14/2016 11:51 AM, Tony944 wrote:


wrote in message ...
OK maybe a little off topic - dunno.
Last week I replaced my ~ 15 year old Frigidaire front load washer
with an LG 3170 front loader. Like all the new washers - things
are computerized ... the old one was not.
After about 3 or 4 loads, experimenting with the cycles & settings -
it seems like the new washer is programmed ? to fill very slowly -
so slowly that it is almost 15 minutes into the wash cycle before the
load is completely wet ! ( The fill-periods only last about 4 seconds
****You mean running)
- occurring every ~ 3 minutes .. geeeze !
Has anyone else experienced this ?
Repair-guy comes tomorrow - I'm expecting a bunch of excuses ..
... hope I'm wrong.
John T.
**Yes you are saving on water but paying in Electricity
**I believe is call they high Efficiency. (I own one)bull ****)

Glad the warning was posted here.

I looked at Sears and they still have the old electro-mechanical dial
type for
$300 - $400 bucks

Will absolutely not got one of those electronic models

The electronic *controls* are not significant problems. Most of
the problems seem to be mechanical ones (door latches, shock mounts,
pumps, etc.

But they add considerably to the cost.

They add to the *perceived* value of the product. There's a difference.
E.g., DTMF signalling used to "cost more" than dial-pulse signalling.
But, was actually cheaper to deploy than "counting pulses".

As customers saw DTMF phones as sexier, they were willing to pay
this premium.

The electronic models are twice the price and to me a waste of money.

You can do things with electronic controls that are just not possible
with electromechanical controls. E.g., when door latch broke on washer,
I was able to query the machine to document EXACTLY how many loads
we had run through it (to strengthen my complaint with manufacturer)

Also, you can't repair EM controls (you can only REPLACE them).
(you can replace the clockwork motor on SOME of them but can't do
anything regarding the cams and switch blades/contacts)

My Whirlpool washer is 32 years old and has had /zero/ problems.
When I bought it, it was recommend because it was beltless and theoretically
less prone to problems. I doubt that kind of quality exists anymore.

Our old toploader had no problems when SWMBO decided she wanted
to replace it. She got tired of having to lug her comforter
across the street to wash in neighbor's equipment because our
"high capacity" washer wasn't big enough to handle it (agitator).
She's been tickled with how much cleaner the clothes are (I, of
course, only care that my jeans remain "blue")

OTOH, I'd replaced the "clockworks" on both the washer and dryer at least
once.

The only failure on the new washer has been the electromechanical door
latch (unnecessary on a toploader). For most folks, getting a service
man out is where the bulk of the cost arises (door latch mechanism
would have set me back ~$30 had manufacturer not comped it)

OTOH, the fact that the front-loaders inherently require such "precise"
control over the "tub" (e.g., to rock the clothes back and forth to
soak them well; to toss them around if an imbalance is detected; etc.)
has me worried what will happen when the electronic *drive* quits.

By contrast, an old top-loader has only two "motor functions"
(agitate and spin) that are handled mechanically.

On 4/14/2016 9:04 AM, wrote:
They will be now - I re-washed the whole load -
on Normal cycle - default settings -
the timer indicated 1 hour 28 minutes at the start of the cycle !
.. at risk of repeating myself .. Geeeze.

Average household does 7 loads of laundry each week.
*If* you do them all on one day AND want to shotgun
one right after another (i.e., nervously tapping
your foot waiting for the load to finish so you can start
the next), then you might have an issue.

We often forget laundry in the machine. I.e., my last
load is still in the dryer from a few days ago. When
SWMBO goes to do bedding this weekend, I will be
"reminded" of this. :

Still, 1:28 seems long for a "normal" wash. I think our
"normal" cycle is 50 minutes and increases to 55 if you
indicate "heavy soil". You should also *time* (with
a clock) the actual cycle length as the machine is
only estimating how long it will take. Your old
machine had no choice: tell it X minutes and it WILL
take X minutes. New machines look at the water
to see how much soil is (still) present.

Also beware that there is usually no real "default"
as many machines remember how you ran a cycle and
offer those settings to you the next time you run it.

IME, it's been educational to poke at the various
buttons to see how each choice affects wash time
(ditto for the dryer). Our first load (on a hot wash)
always takes a bit longer as the machine "tests"
the water temperature before beginning: lets a little
water in, checks temperature, drains it if too cool
(i.e., water "standing" in the pipes -- even the amount
of water in the flexline to the washer is significant
when the washer doesn't USE much!) and tries again.

Most owner's guides will also give you a breakdown of
each cycle type so you can experiment "on paper"
without having to run actual loads.

New machines look at the water
to see how much soil is (still) present.


I asked the repair guy about this - he said that he only knows
of dishwashers doing this ... dunno.
He checked the hoses for good flow ; then went straight for the
pressure switch - and magically had the replacement in his jacket
pocket ! :-) A test run with a few pairs of blue jeans seemed
better - not sure - next full load will tell ..
I'll be watching and timing things if it looks unresolved -
it was a good suggestion to not rely on the washer's countdown
timer indicator for any accurate measurement.
John T.

On 4/15/2016 12:33 PM, wrote:
I'll be watching and timing things if it looks unresolved -
it was a good suggestion to not rely on the washer's countdown
timer indicator for any accurate measurement.

Again, unlike electromechanical controls that work "open loop"
(i.e., do not reflect conditions in the load being washed),
newer machines sense how well they are performing their jobs.

If things go "exceedingly well", the timer will appear to count
"fast" and the load done BEFORE expected. The opposite is
also true.

The dryers have similar smarts; silly to dry something for a fixed
amount of time *if* you know that it's already dry, halfway through
the allotted time!

[I have trouble trying to get the dryer to dry LESS thoroughly
as I often want to remove my clothes when they are ALMOST dry
and let them finish drying while hanging, etc. Usually cuts
down on ironing -- without having to resort to the steam cycle
in the dryer!]

Lastly, check to see if you have a "debris filter" in the washer.
This catches crud that might be mixed in with your clothing
(sort of like a lint filter would in a dryer). In ours, the
filter is located literally at the bottom of the appliance.
So close to the floor that you can't put a catch pan under it to
capture the excess water that WILL come out when you open the
filter!

[Anything that would fit under it would have to have an insignificant
"lip" -- to squeeze under the washer itself. But, having that shallow
of a lip means it's not a very effective *bowl* -- to capture liquids!
If this becomes clogged, you will see water/fill/drain related error
messages signaled.]

On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 15:33:10 -0400, wrote:

I asked the repair guy about this

repair guys.

When I last installed a washer and dryer, the dryer door swing was not
a good solution. I changed the door swing by putting the hinges on
the left side using the place for them. The door now swings toward the
wall so no need to reach over the door to remove clothes.

Some time later, testing a repair guy in appliance repair, I asked if
the door swing could be changed --- No, he said, not knowing a had
already changed it.

(P.S. I delivered and installed appliances as a teen.)

On Friday, April 15, 2016 at 3:33:53 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:

(P.S. I delivered and installed appliances as a teen.)

I thought they had wringers and you hung-out clothes back then? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I asked the repair guy about this


repair guys.
When I last installed a washer and dryer, the dryer door swing was not
a good solution. I changed the door swing by putting the hinges on
the left side using the place for them. The door now swings toward the
wall so no need to reach over the door to remove clothes.
Some time later, testing a repair guy in appliance repair, I asked if
the door swing could be changed --- No, he said, not knowing a had
already changed it.
(P.S. I delivered and installed appliances as a teen.)


Today, the only common make of washer that has a
reversable door is Electrolux .
The $ 2800 Huebsch had the door opening
"the wrong way " from every other machine ..
John T.