Stormin Mormon wrote in news:0dzMy.3213$f62.2910
@fx20.iad:

Caller today asked for me by name. He notifies me
that all my credit card payments are up to date,
but a few have high rates.

Asks if I'm the guy who pays the bills. I (speaking
very slowly) said no, but I'm getting better. Might
be able to do that soon. Asked if he wanted to talk
about food? I'd had some really good hamburgers at
the fire department open house. We can talk about
credit cards in five or six months, weeks, or some
thing. Asked if he likes hamburgers. I was able to
keep him on the phone several minutes. As a service
to my fellow Americans.


What I don't understand is these guys (computers likely) keep calling me
day after day after day. Everytime they call they all hang up on the
answering machine message. Why not try another phone number? After a few
times I'd think even a computer would catch on.

And these are long distance calls I assume? Or do they use Skype or
something like that? Or is long distance from China or India much cheaper
than ours?

There oughta be a law! Who's running with that election promise?


--
You know it's time to clean the refrigerator
when something closes the door from the inside.

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 1:48:15 PM UTC-4, KenK wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote in news:0dzMy.3213$f62.2910
@fx20.iad:

Caller today asked for me by name. He notifies me
that all my credit card payments are up to date,
but a few have high rates.

Asks if I'm the guy who pays the bills. I (speaking
very slowly) said no, but I'm getting better. Might
be able to do that soon. Asked if he wanted to talk
about food? I'd had some really good hamburgers at
the fire department open house. We can talk about
credit cards in five or six months, weeks, or some
thing. Asked if he likes hamburgers. I was able to
keep him on the phone several minutes. As a service
to my fellow Americans.


What I don't understand is these guys (computers likely) keep calling me
day after day after day. Everytime they call they all hang up on the
answering machine message. Why not try another phone number? After a few
times I'd think even a computer would catch on.

And these are long distance calls I assume? Or do they use Skype or
something like that? Or is long distance from China or India much cheaper
than ours?


Long distance? When was the last time you paid long distance charges?

There oughta be a law! Who's running with that election promise?




Yes, we could put all the phone data the NSA is collecting to good use.

On 5 Apr 2016 17:48:10 GMT, KenK wrote:


And these are long distance calls I assume? Or do they use Skype or

Even Skype charges to call a real phone. It's only free to call skype
on a computer.

something like that? Or is long distance from China or India much cheaper
than ours?

I did find a rate to Europe that is only 1cent a minute. And maybe if
I bought in volume it would be cheaper. Still I agree with you. Why
do they call the same number over and over? I had been getting a lot
of calls but they stopped again after a couple weeks.

On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 11:33:55 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 1:48:15 PM UTC-4, KenK wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote in news:0dzMy.3213$f62.2910
@fx20.iad:

Caller today asked for me by name. He notifies me
that all my credit card payments are up to date,
but a few have high rates.

Asks if I'm the guy who pays the bills. I (speaking
very slowly) said no, but I'm getting better. Might
be able to do that soon. Asked if he wanted to talk
about food? I'd had some really good hamburgers at
the fire department open house. We can talk about
credit cards in five or six months, weeks, or some
thing. Asked if he likes hamburgers. I was able to
keep him on the phone several minutes. As a service
to my fellow Americans.


What I don't understand is these guys (computers likely) keep calling me
day after day after day. Everytime they call they all hang up on the
answering machine message. Why not try another phone number? After a few
times I'd think even a computer would catch on.

And these are long distance calls I assume? Or do they use Skype or
something like that? Or is long distance from China or India much cheaper
than ours?


Long distance? When was the last time you paid long distance charges?

Every month. It may be included in the bill, but you're still paying.
In fact if you never call long distance, I suppose you are subsidizing
those who do.

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 3:19:16 AM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 11:33:55 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 1:48:15 PM UTC-4, KenK wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote in news:0dzMy.3213$f62.2910
@fx20.iad:

Caller today asked for me by name. He notifies me
that all my credit card payments are up to date,
but a few have high rates.

Asks if I'm the guy who pays the bills. I (speaking
very slowly) said no, but I'm getting better. Might
be able to do that soon. Asked if he wanted to talk
about food? I'd had some really good hamburgers at
the fire department open house. We can talk about
credit cards in five or six months, weeks, or some
thing. Asked if he likes hamburgers. I was able to
keep him on the phone several minutes. As a service
to my fellow Americans.


What I don't understand is these guys (computers likely) keep calling me
day after day after day. Everytime they call they all hang up on the
answering machine message. Why not try another phone number? After a few
times I'd think even a computer would catch on.

And these are long distance calls I assume? Or do they use Skype or
something like that? Or is long distance from China or India much cheaper
than ours?


Long distance? When was the last time you paid long distance charges?

Every month. It may be included in the bill, but you're still paying.
In fact if you never call long distance, I suppose you are subsidizing
those who do.

Since it is included in the monthly charge (which I know it is) then KenK
questions don't make sense - which is why I asked my question.

KenK said:

"And these are long distance calls I assume? Or do they use Skype or
something like that? Or is long distance from China or India much cheaper
than ours?"

It doesn't matter if they are long distance because it is not costing them
anything extra to make those calls. KenK's question makes it sounds like he
thinks they are being charged by the call like in the old days when Grandma
4 states over would say "Oh, dear, you're calling long distance just to wish
me Happy Birthday? It's so expensive!"

On 4/5/2016 11:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

snip

Long distance? When was the last time you paid long distance charges?

I need to try explaining "long distance" to my 18 and 22 year old. Right
after I explain about "The Iron Curtain" and "Red China."

Maybe I could also explain "signaling" a process where you informed
someone that you reached your destination, at no cost," by placing a
person to person collect call to yourself and the receiver would decline
to accept the charges. I still remember my mother saying "signal when
you arrive."

On 4/5/2016 11:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

snip

What I don't understand is these guys (computers likely) keep calling me
day after day after day. Everytime they call they all hang up on the
answering machine message. Why not try another phone number? After a few
times I'd think even a computer would catch on.

And these are long distance calls I assume? Or do they use Skype or
something like that? Or is long distance from China or India much cheaper
than ours?


Long distance? When was the last time you paid long distance charges?

Until two weeks ago my home phone was on Ring.To, a VOIP provider that
did not charge anything for service. They filtered junk calls but it's
hard because the telemarketers spoof the Caller-ID. And often the phone
would ring once or twice before their system caught the call and hung up.

Ring.To discontinued VOIP home phone service on March 31st, 2016 so I
ported my home number to Google Voice, also free, using the same ATA I
had been using with Ring.To.

Google Voice is absolutely wonderful because of the call-screening
feature where unknown callers have to announce themselves before Google
Voice rings your number, and then asks if you want to accept the call.
The telemarketers don't identify themselves, they give up; most of them
are using a system where it waits until the call is answered before a
live person even comes on, so none of these calls can get through.

Google Voice is free. If you want E911 service on your home phone that
costs $15 per year. There is the one-time cost of the ATA (analog
telephone adapter) of about $70. It's pretty much the same as VOIP
services from Ooma, Vonage, Magicjack, Xfinity Voice, etc., except that
it is free. The QOS (quality of service) is very good, though I think a
real analog landline from AT&T (or Verizon) is a a bit better, and of
course like all VOIP services, if your broadband Internet goes down
there is no service. I put the ATA, my router, and my Comcast modem all
on a UPS.

http://www.obitalk.com/info/googlevoice
http://blog.obihai.com/2014/08/easy-emergency-911-calling-service-with.html

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 11:15:44 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 4/5/2016 11:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

snip

Long distance? When was the last time you paid long distance charges?

I need to try explaining "long distance" to my 18 and 22 year old. Right
after I explain about "The Iron Curtain" and "Red China."

Maybe I could also explain "signaling" a process where you informed
someone that you reached your destination, at no cost," by placing a
person to person collect call to yourself and the receiver would decline
to accept the charges. I still remember my mother saying "signal when
you arrive."

We used to use the free collect call tactic all the time.

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 11:26:10 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 4/5/2016 11:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

snip

What I don't understand is these guys (computers likely) keep calling me
day after day after day. Everytime they call they all hang up on the
answering machine message. Why not try another phone number? After a few
times I'd think even a computer would catch on.

And these are long distance calls I assume? Or do they use Skype or
something like that? Or is long distance from China or India much cheaper
than ours?


Long distance? When was the last time you paid long distance charges?

Until two weeks ago my home phone was on Ring.To, a VOIP provider that
did not charge anything for service. They filtered junk calls but it's
hard because the telemarketers spoof the Caller-ID. And often the phone
would ring once or twice before their system caught the call and hung up.

Ring.To discontinued VOIP home phone service on March 31st, 2016 so I
ported my home number to Google Voice, also free, using the same ATA I
had been using with Ring.To.

Google Voice is absolutely wonderful because of the call-screening
feature where unknown callers have to announce themselves before Google
Voice rings your number, and then asks if you want to accept the call.

OK, color me confused...

First, I should say that we never *ever* answer our home phone. Anyone that
we want to talk to has our cell numbers. All calls to the home phone go to
the answering machine (not the voicemail provided by the carrier but the
answering machine built into the phone).

Most telemarketers don't leave messages, those few that do, well who cares?
That's what the delete button is for. Dental appointment confirmations, etc.,
even the computer generated ones, are smart enough to wait for the beep and
record the message.

But here's my confusion:

The telemarketers don't identify themselves, they give up; most of them
are using a system where it waits until the call is answered before a
live person even comes on, so none of these calls can get through.

Isn't the request for identification considered an "answer" by the system?
How does their system distinguish between the "No one is available to take
your call" message that my machine uses and Google Voice's "Who the heck is
this?" message? Maybe I'm not understanding your meaning of "none of these
calls can get through." How far do they actually get?

How are messages left? If an "unknown caller" tries to reach you, identifies
themselves and GV rings your phone, is there a voice mail system that picks
up after a few rings, assuming there is no one there to accept the call?

How does the system know who qualifies as an "unknown caller"? Do you have
to white list everyone that you want to accept calls from *before* they call?

....snip...

On 4/6/2016 8:53 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

snip

Isn't the request for identification considered an "answer" by the system?

Yes, but their system doesn't respond to the Google Voice request for
identification so Google Voice drops the call. I was getting probably 15
junk calls per day in the past, now it's rare for even one per day to
get through.

How does their system distinguish between the "No one is available to take
your call" message that my machine uses and Google Voice's "Who the heck is
this?" message? Maybe I'm not understanding your meaning of "none of these
calls can get through." How far do they actually get?

They tend to leave part of a message if an answering machine picks up
but they never even get to voice mail if call-screening is turned on in
Google Voice.

How are messages left? If an "unknown caller" tries to reach you, identifies
themselves and GV rings your phone, is there a voice mail system that picks
up after a few rings, assuming there is no one there to accept the call?

Yes. Google Voice includes voice mail. They will also send an e-mail
with an attachment of the voice message and a transcription of the
message, which is often nonsense. You can also have the call forwarded
to a mobile phone (or multiple mobile phones). Say you don't want
callers to know that no one is home, then you pick up the call on your
cell phone.

How does the system know who qualifies as an "unknown caller"? Do you have
to white list everyone that you want to accept calls from *before* they call?

Yes and no. If you want a contact, or a group of contacts, to not have
to go through call screening then you have to select those contacts and
turn off screening. Everyone else will be screened if call screening is
turned on, and then you have the option to accept or reject the call. I
would think that in most cases you'd turn off screening for everyone in
your contact list, unless it's an annoying relative, ex-girlfriend, etc..

You can also do blacklists where the call won't even reach the call
screening. But like the Do Not Call List, blacklists are of limited
value. The companies that make the junk calls are violating the DNC law
and they are also constantly changing their Caller ID information to
avoid blacklists.

We do get a lot of calls on our home phone because cell reception inside
our house is very spotty. We make calls from the home phone because we
do not have unlimited minutes on our cell phones.

Of course we could also make Google Voice calls, via Wi-Fi from our cell
phones. A few weeks ago we were at a lodge by a National Park and there
was no cell service there but we could make a call by using Google Voice
via the free Wi-Fi. We are on AT&T wireless (via an MVNO) and in a lot
of rural places in California there is only Verizon coverage. I keep a
$2.50 per month Verizon phone active for road trips into these areas.

On 4/6/2016 8:31 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 11:15:44 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 4/5/2016 11:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

snip

Long distance? When was the last time you paid long distance charges?

I need to try explaining "long distance" to my 18 and 22 year old. Right
after I explain about "The Iron Curtain" and "Red China."

Maybe I could also explain "signaling" a process where you informed
someone that you reached your destination, at no cost," by placing a
person to person collect call to yourself and the receiver would decline
to accept the charges. I still remember my mother saying "signal when
you arrive."

We used to use the free collect call tactic all the time.

Remember when Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak were making Blue Boxes?
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a38878/steve-jobs-steve-wozniak-blue-box-phone-phreaking/

There was also the Ramparts (now Mother Jones) article on Black Boxes
http://explodingthephone.com/docs/dbx0429.pdf that allowed receiving
calls free of charge to the caller.

And overseas calls were something like $2 per minute off-peak. When we
called my sister who was going to college in Israel we would limit the
call to a few minutes. Now it's less than 1¢/minute to call a landline
there, and less than 3¢/minute to call a mobile.

On 2016-04-06, sms wrote:

call to a few minutes. Now it's less than 1¢/minute to call a landline
there, and less than 3¢/minute to call a mobile.

Try using an operator.

I've got Centurylink (formerly, Quest). Last time an operator
assisted call was made from this landline, the charge was $45-$50 fer
about 2 mins of operator time. Most of the charge was fer merely
accessing the operator.

In short, the major telcos now sub out operator assisted calls and yer
gonna pay up the wazoo fer going down that road. I think the total
was over $75 and I protested loudly, to no avail. We're talking
almost 10 yrs ago. That's why yer "direct" long distance is so
cheap. It's like wiring $$$$ from my bank usta be free. Now it's
$20 a pop. You will get charged, somewhere!!

nb

On 4/6/2016 9:44 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2016-04-06, sms wrote:

call to a few minutes. Now it's less than 1¢/minute to call a landline
there, and less than 3¢/minute to call a mobile.

Try using an operator.

I've got Centurylink (formerly, Quest). Last time an operator
assisted call was made from this landline, the charge was $45-$50 fer
about 2 mins of operator time. Most of the charge was fer merely
accessing the operator.

In short, the major telcos now sub out operator assisted calls and yer
gonna pay up the wazoo fer going down that road. I think the total
was over $75 and I protested loudly, to no avail. We're talking
almost 10 yrs ago. That's why yer "direct" long distance is so
cheap. It's like wiring $$$$ from my bank usta be free. Now it's
$20 a pop. You will get charged, somewhere!!

I think the last time I made an operator assisted call in the U.S. must
be 40 years ago.

I made one in Russia about 23 years ago, or at least tried to make one.

Collect calls are now mainly through third-party services. They are used
a lot for calls from those that are incarcerated, and they are extremely
expensive, about $1 per minute. They also provide recording and
monitoring so that contributes to the high cost.

DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 1:48:15 PM UTC-4, KenK wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote in
news:0dzMy.3213$f62.2910 @fx20.iad:

Caller today asked for me by name. He notifies me
that all my credit card payments are up to date,
but a few have high rates.

Asks if I'm the guy who pays the bills. I (speaking
very slowly) said no, but I'm getting better. Might
be able to do that soon. Asked if he wanted to talk
about food? I'd had some really good hamburgers at
the fire department open house. We can talk about
credit cards in five or six months, weeks, or some
thing. Asked if he likes hamburgers. I was able to
keep him on the phone several minutes. As a service
to my fellow Americans.


What I don't understand is these guys (computers likely) keep calling
me day after day after day. Everytime they call they all hang up on
the answering machine message. Why not try another phone number?
After a few times I'd think even a computer would catch on.

And these are long distance calls I assume? Or do they use Skype or
something like that? Or is long distance from China or India much
cheaper than ours?


Long distance? When was the last time you paid long distance charges?


A few days ago. I called an insurance adjustor across the country on my
landline - forgot to use my cell.


--
You know it's time to clean the refrigerator
when something closes the door from the inside.

DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 3:19:16 AM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 11:33:55 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 1:48:15 PM UTC-4, KenK wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote in
news:0dzMy.3213$f62.2910 @fx20.iad:

Caller today asked for me by name. He notifies me
that all my credit card payments are up to date,
but a few have high rates.

Asks if I'm the guy who pays the bills. I (speaking
very slowly) said no, but I'm getting better. Might
be able to do that soon. Asked if he wanted to talk
about food? I'd had some really good hamburgers at
the fire department open house. We can talk about
credit cards in five or six months, weeks, or some
thing. Asked if he likes hamburgers. I was able to
keep him on the phone several minutes. As a service
to my fellow Americans.


What I don't understand is these guys (computers likely) keep
calling me day after day after day. Everytime they call they all
hang up on the answering machine message. Why not try another
phone number? After a few times I'd think even a computer would
catch on.

And these are long distance calls I assume? Or do they use Skype
or something like that? Or is long distance from China or India
much cheaper than ours?


Long distance? When was the last time you paid long distance
charges?

Every month. It may be included in the bill, but you're still
paying. In fact if you never call long distance, I suppose you are
subsidizing those who do.

Since it is included in the monthly charge (which I know it is) then
KenK questions don't make sense - which is why I asked my question.

KenK said:

"And these are long distance calls I assume? Or do they use Skype or
something like that? Or is long distance from China or India much
cheaper than ours?"

It doesn't matter if they are long distance because it is not costing
them anything extra to make those calls. KenK's question makes it
sounds like he thinks they are being charged by the call like in the
old days when Grandma 4 states over would say "Oh, dear, you're
calling long distance just to wish me Happy Birthday? It's so
expensive!"


They don't charge by the call for landline long distance? Could be, I've
used my cell for years for LD. But then why do people use Skype?
Evidently all this has changed and no one told me.


--
You know it's time to clean the refrigerator
when something closes the door from the inside.

sms wrote in :

On 4/5/2016 11:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

snip

Long distance? When was the last time you paid long distance charges?

I need to try explaining "long distance" to my 18 and 22 year old.
Right
after I explain about "The Iron Curtain" and "Red China."

Maybe I could also explain "signaling" a process where you informed
someone that you reached your destination, at no cost," by placing a
person to person collect call to yourself and the receiver would
decline
to accept the charges. I still remember my mother saying "signal when
you arrive."


I used to do that when I was much younger and still lived at home.


--
You know it's time to clean the refrigerator
when something closes the door from the inside.

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 12:44:12 PM UTC-4, notbob wrote:
On 2016-04-06, sms wrote:

call to a few minutes. Now it's less than 1¢/minute to call a landline
there, and less than 3¢/minute to call a mobile.

Try using an operator.

I've got Centurylink (formerly, Quest). Last time an operator
assisted call was made from this landline, the charge was $45-$50 fer
about 2 mins of operator time. Most of the charge was fer merely
accessing the operator.

In short, the major telcos now sub out operator assisted calls and yer
gonna pay up the wazoo fer going down that road. I think the total
was over $75 and I protested loudly, to no avail. We're talking
almost 10 yrs ago. That's why yer "direct" long distance is so
cheap. It's like wiring $$$$ from my bank usta be free. Now it's
$20 a pop. You will get charged, somewhere!!

nb

Let me see if I've got this right...

You're comparing a single operator assisted call you made 10 years ago to
present day prices for a direct dial overseas call?

Do you think that that is valid comparison?

On 04/05/2016 01:33 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

[snip]

Long distance? When was the last time you paid long distance charges?


I've had unlimited domestic long distance for more than 5 years.

A couple of years ago, I had a friend staying at my house call Norway.
It was just a short call and didn't cost much.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

Theology: The study of elaborate verbal disguises for non-ideas.

On 04/06/2016 10:53 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

[snip]

Most telemarketers don't leave messages, those few that do, well who cares?
That's what the delete button is for. Dental appointment confirmations, etc.,
even the computer generated ones, are smart enough to wait for the beep and
record the message.

In the last several years, I have had only one message left by a junk
caller. It was an IRS scam, and the message never said WHO was being sued.

[snip]

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

Theology: The study of elaborate verbal disguises for non-ideas.

On 04/06/2016 11:23 AM, sms wrote:

[snip]

We are on AT&T wireless (via an MVNO) and in a lot
of rural places in California there is only Verizon coverage. I keep a
$2.50 per month Verizon phone active for road trips into these areas.

My first cell phone was with AT&T, and I discovered I'm in an AT&T dead
zone. I could go into the back yard, and hold the phone above the
oleander plant on the south side, and the phone MIGHT work.

This is not rural, but a residential area. AT&T works well at the Kroger
a mile away. Verizon & Sprint do work OK here. My phone is with Verizon
and I have an internet hotspot that uses Sprint.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

Theology: The study of elaborate verbal disguises for non-ideas.

On 04/06/2016 12:20 PM, sms wrote:

[snip]

Collect calls are now mainly through third-party services. They are used
a lot for calls from those that are incarcerated, and they are extremely
expensive, about $1 per minute. They also provide recording and
monitoring so that contributes to the high cost.

I once got a collect call from a friend in a mental hospital. That call
was handled through a third party was was really expensive. I wish I had
remembered to ask her for the phone number there and called back.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

Theology: The study of elaborate verbal disguises for non-ideas.

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 1:54:06 PM UTC-4, KenK wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 1:48:15 PM UTC-4, KenK wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote in
news:0dzMy.3213$f62.2910 @fx20.iad:

Caller today asked for me by name. He notifies me
that all my credit card payments are up to date,
but a few have high rates.

Asks if I'm the guy who pays the bills. I (speaking
very slowly) said no, but I'm getting better. Might
be able to do that soon. Asked if he wanted to talk
about food? I'd had some really good hamburgers at
the fire department open house. We can talk about
credit cards in five or six months, weeks, or some
thing. Asked if he likes hamburgers. I was able to
keep him on the phone several minutes. As a service
to my fellow Americans.


What I don't understand is these guys (computers likely) keep calling
me day after day after day. Everytime they call they all hang up on
the answering machine message. Why not try another phone number?
After a few times I'd think even a computer would catch on.

And these are long distance calls I assume? Or do they use Skype or
something like that? Or is long distance from China or India much
cheaper than ours?


Long distance? When was the last time you paid long distance charges?


A few days ago. I called an insurance adjustor across the country on my
landline - forgot to use my cell.


You still pay separate long distance charges on your landline? Who is your
carrier? I used to use Verizon, now I use TWC but even my local TelCo
includes domestic long distance as part of the monthly charge. They may
even have added some international, but I haven't checked recently.

Are you sure that you are going to be billed for the long distance call?

Mark Lloyd posted for all of us...



On 04/06/2016 12:20 PM, sms wrote:

[snip]

Collect calls are now mainly through third-party services. They are used
a lot for calls from those that are incarcerated, and they are extremely
expensive, about $1 per minute. They also provide recording and
monitoring so that contributes to the high cost.

I once got a collect call from a friend in a mental hospital. That call
was handled through a third party was was really expensive. I wish I had
remembered to ask her for the phone number there and called back.

Probably only outgoing calls, not incoming.

--
Tekkie

Mark Lloyd posted for all of us...



On 04/06/2016 11:23 AM, sms wrote:

[snip]

We are on AT&T wireless (via an MVNO) and in a lot
of rural places in California there is only Verizon coverage. I keep a
$2.50 per month Verizon phone active for road trips into these areas.

My first cell phone was with AT&T, and I discovered I'm in an AT&T dead
zone. I could go into the back yard, and hold the phone above the
oleander plant on the south side, and the phone MIGHT work.

This is not rural, but a residential area. AT&T works well at the Kroger
a mile away. Verizon & Sprint do work OK here. My phone is with Verizon
and I have an internet hotspot that uses Sprint.

That is very informative but tells us nothing.

--
Tekkie

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 1:57:29 PM UTC-4, KenK wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 3:19:16 AM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 11:33:55 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 1:48:15 PM UTC-4, KenK wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote in
news:0dzMy.3213$f62.2910 @fx20.iad:

Caller today asked for me by name. He notifies me
that all my credit card payments are up to date,
but a few have high rates.

Asks if I'm the guy who pays the bills. I (speaking
very slowly) said no, but I'm getting better. Might
be able to do that soon. Asked if he wanted to talk
about food? I'd had some really good hamburgers at
the fire department open house. We can talk about
credit cards in five or six months, weeks, or some
thing. Asked if he likes hamburgers. I was able to
keep him on the phone several minutes. As a service
to my fellow Americans.


What I don't understand is these guys (computers likely) keep
calling me day after day after day. Everytime they call they all
hang up on the answering machine message. Why not try another
phone number? After a few times I'd think even a computer would
catch on.

And these are long distance calls I assume? Or do they use Skype
or something like that? Or is long distance from China or India
much cheaper than ours?


Long distance? When was the last time you paid long distance
charges?

Every month. It may be included in the bill, but you're still
paying. In fact if you never call long distance, I suppose you are
subsidizing those who do.

Since it is included in the monthly charge (which I know it is) then
KenK questions don't make sense - which is why I asked my question.

KenK said:

"And these are long distance calls I assume? Or do they use Skype or
something like that? Or is long distance from China or India much
cheaper than ours?"

It doesn't matter if they are long distance because it is not costing
them anything extra to make those calls. KenK's question makes it
sounds like he thinks they are being charged by the call like in the
old days when Grandma 4 states over would say "Oh, dear, you're
calling long distance just to wish me Happy Birthday? It's so
expensive!"


They don't charge by the call for landline long distance? Could be, I've
used my cell for years for LD. But then why do people use Skype?
Evidently all this has changed and no one told me.


It might depend on who "they" is. No that carrier I've had in years has. Now,
we should also define what we mean by "landline".

For years, I used the local TelCo, over regular phone wires to my house. To
be honest, I don't recall if I paid separate long distance charges or if
I had a long distance "plan". It's been too long.

I switched to TWC phone service as a bundle with my cable and internet.
At that point I cut the phones wires at the top of the house and removed
their box from the exterior wall. I still considered the "home phone" and
all extensions to be my "landline". Same number, phone book listed, etc.

Then I switched to Verizon, who supplied what was essentially a "cell phone
in a box" that my home phone connected to. I still considered the home
phone and all extensions to be my "landline". Same number, phone book listed,
etc.

I am now back on a TWC bundle. The price from TWC is better once I used up
the promotional price that Verizon had offered me. (Actually, I needed to add
another cell phone to my Verizon plan, which basically knocked the home phone
onto a separate plan at a higher price then the TWC bundle price)

In any case, neither TWC nor Verizon charges for domestic long distance on
the home phone.

I can't answer the question about using Skype as a phone service. The only
time I use Skype is for video calls with family and friends, both long distance
and local. Voice calls are via cell, the home phone is for the crap calls.

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 3:40:11 PM UTC-4, Tekkie® wrote:
Mark Lloyd posted for all of us...



On 04/06/2016 11:23 AM, sms wrote:

[snip]

We are on AT&T wireless (via an MVNO) and in a lot
of rural places in California there is only Verizon coverage. I keep a
$2.50 per month Verizon phone active for road trips into these areas.

My first cell phone was with AT&T, and I discovered I'm in an AT&T dead
zone. I could go into the back yard, and hold the phone above the
oleander plant on the south side, and the phone MIGHT work.

This is not rural, but a residential area. AT&T works well at the Kroger
a mile away. Verizon & Sprint do work OK here. My phone is with Verizon
and I have an internet hotspot that uses Sprint.

That is very informative but tells us nothing.


And your post wasn't even informative.

On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 07:01:11 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 3:19:16 AM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 11:33:55 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 1:48:15 PM UTC-4, KenK wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote in news:0dzMy.3213$f62.2910
@fx20.iad:

Caller today asked for me by name. He notifies me
that all my credit card payments are up to date,
but a few have high rates.

Asks if I'm the guy who pays the bills. I (speaking
very slowly) said no, but I'm getting better. Might
be able to do that soon. Asked if he wanted to talk
about food? I'd had some really good hamburgers at
the fire department open house. We can talk about
credit cards in five or six months, weeks, or some
thing. Asked if he likes hamburgers. I was able to
keep him on the phone several minutes. As a service
to my fellow Americans.


What I don't understand is these guys (computers likely) keep calling me
day after day after day. Everytime they call they all hang up on the
answering machine message. Why not try another phone number? After a few
times I'd think even a computer would catch on.

And these are long distance calls I assume? Or do they use Skype or
something like that? Or is long distance from China or India much cheaper
than ours?


Long distance? When was the last time you paid long distance charges?

Every month. It may be included in the bill, but you're still paying.
In fact if you never call long distance, I suppose you are subsidizing
those who do.

Since it is included in the monthly charge (which I know it is) then KenK
questions don't make sense - which is why I asked my question.

KenK said:

"And these are long distance calls I assume? Or do they use Skype or
something like that? Or is long distance from China or India much cheaper
than ours?"

It doesn't matter if they are long distance because it is not costing them
anything extra to make those calls. KenK's question makes it sounds like he
thinks they are being charged by the call like in the old days when Grandma
4 states over would say "Oh, dear, you're calling long distance just to wish
me Happy Birthday? It's so expensive!"

Calls from other countries to the US do not cost the same as from the
US to other countries, and I think it is almost always more.

And rates to commercial businesses are not the rate charged to
individuals, here and probably there too. I'm sure they're willing to
lie but if they are on the phone 12 hours a day, the phone company
can tell they are commercial (or deserving the higher rate,
regardless). Plus they call about 5 numbers at once, talking to
whoever answers first, but not, it seems, hanging up on those who
answer 2nd or 3rd (the reason there is often no one there when you
pick up.) So that might raise their cost by a factor of 3 or even 5.
OTOH, bulk buyers of long distance almost always get a discount.

On 6 Apr 2016 17:57:23 GMT, KenK wrote:



They don't charge by the call for landline long distance? Could be, I've

Yes, they do.

used my cell for years for LD. But then why do people use Skype?

It's free to call other computers, although the computer has to be on
and skype running for this to work.

And you don't have to know where the person is.

It's cheap to call land lines, including foreign ones, because it's
bascially VOIP at the caller's end.

For money, you can get an 800 phone number so that people can call and
get your computer when it's running and something like voice mail when
it's not.

Evidently all this has changed and no one told me.

I know how you feel. Not this topic so much but other stuff.

On 4/6/2016 3:50 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 3:40:11 PM UTC-4, Tekkie® wrote:
Mark Lloyd posted for all of us...
My first cell phone was with AT&T, and I discovered I'm in an AT&T dead
zone. I could go into the back yard, and hold the phone above the
oleander plant on the south side, and the phone MIGHT work.

This is not rural, but a residential area. AT&T works well at the Kroger
a mile away. Verizon & Sprint do work OK here. My phone is with Verizon
and I have an internet hotspot that uses Sprint.

That is very informative but tells us nothing.


And your post wasn't even informative.


Also moderately thread drifted.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 4/6/2016 12:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

snip

It might depend on who "they" is. No that carrier I've had in years has. Now,
we should also define what we mean by "landline".

For years, I used the local TelCo, over regular phone wires to my house. To
be honest, I don't recall if I paid separate long distance charges or if
I had a long distance "plan". It's been too long.

The last time I had AT&T service, which was very long ago, I did not
select any long distance provider. All long distance, was done through
OneSuite, and I had to train the family to also use them for intra-LATA
calls which we would otherwise be billed for.

Then I switched to an ISP which used AT&T's wires to sell their own DSL
and voice service. Unlimited calling, anywhere in the U.S. was included.
The problem was that I was so far from the Central Office that the DSL
was too slow. When I switched to Comcast broadband I moved the
"landline" to free VOIP service on Ring.To with an Obi 202. Ring.To
dropped VOIP service on March 31st so I had to move my number somewhere
else. There were a lot of choices to use with the Obi, but Google Voice
was the best deal since it's free. The other options were MagicJack,
Ooma, or Vonage. Magicjack and Ooma aren't too expensive, but Vonage is
very expensive.

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 04/06/2016 10:53 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

[snip]

Most telemarketers don't leave messages, those few that do, well who
cares? That's what the delete button is for. Dental appointment
confirmations, etc., even the computer generated ones, are smart
enough to wait for the beep and record the message.

In the last several years, I have had only one message left by a junk
caller. It was an IRS scam, and the message never said WHO was being
sued.

I had 3 of those IRS calls in one day last week - all as messages on my machine.

On 04/06/2016 02:38 PM, Tekkie® wrote:

[snip[

I once got a collect call from a friend in a mental hospital. That call
was handled through a third party and it was really expensive. I wish I had
remembered to ask her for the phone number there and called back.

Probably only outgoing calls, not incoming.


Yes, I could have called to that pay phone for a lot less than the
collect call. That was more than 10 years ago, and I no longer have that
bill, but I think it would have cost around 10%.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Pray: To ask the laws of the universe to be annulled on behalf of a
single petitioner confessedly unworthy." -- Ambrose Bierce

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 5:21:05 PM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Wed, 6 Apr 2016 07:01:11 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 3:19:16 AM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 11:33:55 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 1:48:15 PM UTC-4, KenK wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote in news:0dzMy.3213$f62.2910
@fx20.iad:

Caller today asked for me by name. He notifies me
that all my credit card payments are up to date,
but a few have high rates.

Asks if I'm the guy who pays the bills. I (speaking
very slowly) said no, but I'm getting better. Might
be able to do that soon. Asked if he wanted to talk
about food? I'd had some really good hamburgers at
the fire department open house. We can talk about
credit cards in five or six months, weeks, or some
thing. Asked if he likes hamburgers. I was able to
keep him on the phone several minutes. As a service
to my fellow Americans.


What I don't understand is these guys (computers likely) keep calling me
day after day after day. Everytime they call they all hang up on the
answering machine message. Why not try another phone number? After a few
times I'd think even a computer would catch on.

And these are long distance calls I assume? Or do they use Skype or
something like that? Or is long distance from China or India much cheaper
than ours?


Long distance? When was the last time you paid long distance charges?

Every month. It may be included in the bill, but you're still paying.
In fact if you never call long distance, I suppose you are subsidizing
those who do.

Since it is included in the monthly charge (which I know it is) then KenK
questions don't make sense - which is why I asked my question.

KenK said:

"And these are long distance calls I assume? Or do they use Skype or
something like that? Or is long distance from China or India much cheaper
than ours?"

It doesn't matter if they are long distance because it is not costing them
anything extra to make those calls. KenK's question makes it sounds like he
thinks they are being charged by the call like in the old days when Grandma
4 states over would say "Oh, dear, you're calling long distance just to wish
me Happy Birthday? It's so expensive!"

Calls from other countries to the US do not cost the same as from the
US to other countries, and I think it is almost always more.

And rates to commercial businesses are not the rate charged to
individuals, here and probably there too. I'm sure they're willing to
lie but if they are on the phone 12 hours a day, the phone company
can tell they are commercial (or deserving the higher rate,
regardless). Plus they call about 5 numbers at once, talking to
whoever answers first, but not, it seems, hanging up on those who
answer 2nd or 3rd (the reason there is often no one there when you
pick up.) So that might raise their cost by a factor of 3 or even 5.
OTOH, bulk buyers of long distance almost always get a discount.

You are not telling me anything that I don't already know. I'm not even
sure what your point is.

All I was trying to do was point out to KenK that his (apparent) assumption
that these companies are paying huge long distance charges for these calls
is probably not valid. Even if they are, hopefully their business model and
response rate more than covers the cost.

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 5:24:39 PM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On 6 Apr 2016 17:57:23 GMT, KenK wrote:



They don't charge by the call for landline long distance? Could be, I've

Yes, they do.

used my cell for years for LD. But then why do people use Skype?

It's free to call other computers, although the computer has to be on
and skype running for this to work.


Really? Your ISP allows you to connect for free?

Wasn't it you that said that LD was included in the monthly bill, so it
wasn't really free? The same holds true for "free" calls from computer to
computer. Both parties are paying for the connectivity that makes that
possible.

And you don't have to know where the person is.

It's cheap to call land lines, including foreign ones, because it's
bascially VOIP at the caller's end.

For money, you can get an 800 phone number so that people can call and
get your computer when it's running and something like voice mail when
it's not.

Evidently all this has changed and no one told me.

I know how you feel. Not this topic so much but other stuff.

DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 1:54:06 PM UTC-4, KenK wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 1:48:15 PM UTC-4, KenK wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote in
news:0dzMy.3213$f62.2910 @fx20.iad:

Caller today asked for me by name. He notifies me
that all my credit card payments are up to date,
but a few have high rates.

Asks if I'm the guy who pays the bills. I (speaking
very slowly) said no, but I'm getting better. Might
be able to do that soon. Asked if he wanted to talk
about food? I'd had some really good hamburgers at
the fire department open house. We can talk about
credit cards in five or six months, weeks, or some
thing. Asked if he likes hamburgers. I was able to
keep him on the phone several minutes. As a service
to my fellow Americans.


What I don't understand is these guys (computers likely) keep
calling me day after day after day. Everytime they call they all
hang up on the answering machine message. Why not try another
phone number? After a few times I'd think even a computer would
catch on.

And these are long distance calls I assume? Or do they use Skype
or something like that? Or is long distance from China or India
much cheaper than ours?


Long distance? When was the last time you paid long distance
charges?


A few days ago. I called an insurance adjustor across the country on
my landline - forgot to use my cell.


You still pay separate long distance charges on your landline? Who is
your carrier? I used to use Verizon, now I use TWC but even my local
TelCo includes domestic long distance as part of the monthly charge.
They may even have added some international, but I haven't checked
recently.

Are you sure that you are going to be billed for the long distance
call?


No. I'm not. But why else have toll-free 800 numbers if there are no long
distance charges? I'll find out when I get the next bill.

--
You know it's time to clean the refrigerator
when something closes the door from the inside.

DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

It might depend on who "they" is. No that carrier I've had in years
has. Now, we should also define what we mean by "landline".


CenturyLink

--
You know it's time to clean the refrigerator
when something closes the door from the inside.

On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 1:34:09 PM UTC-4, KenK wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 1:54:06 PM UTC-4, KenK wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 1:48:15 PM UTC-4, KenK wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote in
news:0dzMy.3213$f62.2910 @fx20.iad:

Caller today asked for me by name. He notifies me
that all my credit card payments are up to date,
but a few have high rates.

Asks if I'm the guy who pays the bills. I (speaking
very slowly) said no, but I'm getting better. Might
be able to do that soon. Asked if he wanted to talk
about food? I'd had some really good hamburgers at
the fire department open house. We can talk about
credit cards in five or six months, weeks, or some
thing. Asked if he likes hamburgers. I was able to
keep him on the phone several minutes. As a service
to my fellow Americans.


What I don't understand is these guys (computers likely) keep
calling me day after day after day. Everytime they call they all
hang up on the answering machine message. Why not try another
phone number? After a few times I'd think even a computer would
catch on.

And these are long distance calls I assume? Or do they use Skype
or something like that? Or is long distance from China or India
much cheaper than ours?


Long distance? When was the last time you paid long distance
charges?


A few days ago. I called an insurance adjustor across the country on
my landline - forgot to use my cell.


You still pay separate long distance charges on your landline? Who is
your carrier? I used to use Verizon, now I use TWC but even my local
TelCo includes domestic long distance as part of the monthly charge.
They may even have added some international, but I haven't checked
recently.

Are you sure that you are going to be billed for the long distance
call?


No. I'm not. But why else have toll-free 800 numbers if there are no long
distance charges? I'll find out when I get the next bill.


Remnant of the past?
Some users who do still pay for each long distance call?
For people that *think* they get charged for every long distance call?
So people feel more comfortable knowing that it's a business?

After I came up with those possible reasons off the top of my, I found this
blog post. This guy suggests that not only don't we need toll-free numbers
anymore, businesses are actually wasting money by continuing to use them.

http://blog.level3.com/contact-cente...-free-anymore/

On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 1:35:42 PM UTC-4, KenK wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

It might depend on who "they" is. No that carrier I've had in years
has. Now, we should also define what we mean by "landline".


CenturyLink


According to the "Plan" tab at this site, it's possible that you may
indeed pay for long distance unless you subscribe to their "Phone Unlimited"
plan.

http://www.centurylink.com/home/phone/

On Thursday, April 7, 2016 at 1:34:09 PM UTC-4, KenK wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 1:54:06 PM UTC-4, KenK wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 1:48:15 PM UTC-4, KenK wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote in
news:0dzMy.3213$f62.2910 @fx20.iad:

Caller today asked for me by name. He notifies me
that all my credit card payments are up to date,
but a few have high rates.

Asks if I'm the guy who pays the bills. I (speaking
very slowly) said no, but I'm getting better. Might
be able to do that soon. Asked if he wanted to talk
about food? I'd had some really good hamburgers at
the fire department open house. We can talk about
credit cards in five or six months, weeks, or some
thing. Asked if he likes hamburgers. I was able to
keep him on the phone several minutes. As a service
to my fellow Americans.


What I don't understand is these guys (computers likely) keep
calling me day after day after day. Everytime they call they all
hang up on the answering machine message. Why not try another
phone number? After a few times I'd think even a computer would
catch on.

And these are long distance calls I assume? Or do they use Skype
or something like that? Or is long distance from China or India
much cheaper than ours?


Long distance? When was the last time you paid long distance
charges?


A few days ago. I called an insurance adjustor across the country on
my landline - forgot to use my cell.


You still pay separate long distance charges on your landline? Who is
your carrier? I used to use Verizon, now I use TWC but even my local
TelCo includes domestic long distance as part of the monthly charge.
They may even have added some international, but I haven't checked
recently.

Are you sure that you are going to be billed for the long distance
call?


No. I'm not. But why else have toll-free 800 numbers if there are no long
distance charges? I'll find out when I get the next bill.


Well, you could call them and ask instead of waiting. I assume they have an
800 number. ;-)