1979-built house, two bathrooms sharing a common wall, one plain
electrical outlet in each bathroom. Both outlets are on the same
circuit; i.e., one circuit breaker kills them both.

I want to install GFCI protection. Do I need to install one in each
bathroom?

Or is the downstream one protected by its upstream brother? If yes, how
do I determine which one is first in the circuit?

--
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they
have to say something.
�ƒ Plato

On 03/10/2016 08:40 AM, Wade Garrett wrote:
1979-built house, two bathrooms sharing a common wall, one plain
electrical outlet in each bathroom. Both outlets are on the same
circuit; i.e., one circuit breaker kills them both.

I want to install GFCI protection. Do I need to install one in each
bathroom?

Or is the downstream one protected by its upstream brother? If yes, how
do I determine which one is first in the circuit?





GFCI outlets have "downstream" terminals. if you use them, the outlet
connected to it is protected as well.

Full instructions should be included in the box, when you make your purchase

On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 14:40:32 -0000, Wade Garrett wrote:

1979-built house, two bathrooms sharing a common wall, one plain
electrical outlet in each bathroom. Both outlets are on the same
circuit; i.e., one circuit breaker kills them both.

I want to install GFCI protection. Do I need to install one in each
bathroom?

Or is the downstream one protected by its upstream brother? If yes, how
do I determine which one is first in the circuit?

Are things different in the US? In the UK, our protection is in the consumer unit / fusebox / whatever it's called over there. Replace the breaker with a GFCI one, and both are obviously protected, as you've proved that that breaker kills them both.

--
While the Swiss Army Knife has been popular for years, the Swiss Navy Knife has remained largely unheralded.
Its single blade functions as a tiny canoe paddle.

On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 9:40:36 AM UTC-5, Wade Garrett wrote:
1979-built house, two bathrooms sharing a common wall, one plain
electrical outlet in each bathroom. Both outlets are on the same
circuit; i.e., one circuit breaker kills them both.

I want to install GFCI protection. Do I need to install one in each
bathroom?

Or is the downstream one protected by its upstream brother? If yes, how
do I determine which one is first in the circuit?

--
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they
have to say something.
�ƒ Plato

If you look at a GFCI receptacle, you will see 2 set of terminals:
Line and Load. The source wires need to be attached the Line terminals.

Any downstream receptacles that are attached to the Load terminals will
be protected by the GFCI. Receptacles connected to the Load terminals
should not be GFCI receptacles - they don't need to be because they are
protected by the upstream GFCI.

If you attach a downstream receptacle to the Line terminals, it will not
be protected by the GFCI. In that case, you could use a GFCI downstream,
at the extra cost but possibly greater convenience in case it trips. (Local
reset)

Another option is to use a GFCI breaker and protect all fixtures on that
circuit.

BTW...I know you didn't ask, but a GFCI receptacle or breaker can be used
to allow you to use 3-pronged receptacles on circuits without a ground.
Yes, it's code! The receptacles should be marked with a sticker that says
"No Equipment Ground" so that users are aware of that fact. Using a GFCI
as the first receptacle on a circuit (or a GFCI breaker) adds both safety
and convenience for receptacles without a ground.

On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 9:40:36 AM UTC-5, Wade Garrett wrote:
1979-built house, two bathrooms sharing a common wall, one plain
electrical outlet in each bathroom. Both outlets are on the same
circuit; i.e., one circuit breaker kills them both.

I want to install GFCI protection. Do I need to install one in each
bathroom?

Or is the downstream one protected by its upstream brother? If yes, how
do I determine which one is first in the circuit?

--
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they
have to say something.
�ƒ Plato

its best to install a GFCI outlet at each location.

if just one feeds both bathrooms, in a failure mode your stuck.

no hair dryer for you

On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 09:40:32 -0500, Wade Garrett
wrote:

1979-built house, two bathrooms sharing a common wall, one plain
electrical outlet in each bathroom. Both outlets are on the same
circuit; i.e., one circuit breaker kills them both.

I want to install GFCI protection. Do I need to install one in each
bathroom?

Or is the downstream one protected by its upstream brother? If yes, how
do I determine which one is first in the circuit?
A GFCI has 5 connections, ground, line in, line out, neutral in, and
neutral out.

To find which one is first in line check to see which one has more
wires in the box. The one that feeds through WILL have 2 cables
entering the box. The second one may or may not. If both have wires
in and out, disconnect the wires in one box and see if the other is
still "live". If so, repeat at the other box.

In article ,
bob haller wrote:

On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 9:40:36 AM UTC-5, Wade Garrett wrote:
1979-built house, two bathrooms sharing a common wall, one plain
electrical outlet in each bathroom. Both outlets are on the same
circuit; i.e., one circuit breaker kills them both.

I want to install GFCI protection. Do I need to install one in each
bathroom?

Or is the downstream one protected by its upstream brother? If yes, how
do I determine which one is first in the circuit?

--
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they
have to say something.
? Plato

its best to install a GFCI outlet at each location.

if just one feeds both bathrooms, in a failure mode your stuck.

no hair dryer for you

I agree. My downstairs GFCI feeds the upstairs bathroom.

To determine which feeds the other, look to see which outlet has two
pairs of wires. One comes from the breaker, the other goes to the
second outlet. Then you need to determine which pair comes from the
breaker, so you don't connect the GFCI backwards.

But what if both outlets have two sets of wires? In that case you have
additional outlets, and would have to disconnect one and see if the
other is dead when the breaker is restored.

Fred

Hi Wade,

On 3/10/2016 7:40 AM, Wade Garrett wrote:
1979-built house, two bathrooms sharing a common wall, one plain electrical
outlet in each bathroom. Both outlets are on the same circuit; i.e., one
circuit breaker kills them both.

I want to install GFCI protection. Do I need to install one in each bathroom?

No.

Or is the downstream one protected by its upstream brother? If yes, how do I
determine which one is first in the circuit?

You can wire a GFCI so that *other* loads "beyond it" are protected by the
same mechanism in THAT outlet. There are two terminals to which you wire
the "line" coming to the GFCI. Two other terminals allow you to wire a
"load" (i.e., the other "downstream" outlets) that acts AS IF it was plugged
into this receptacle.

I'm not fond of using GFCI's in this way. Instead, I opt to replace the
circuit breaker feeding that circuit with a GFCI breaker. They seem to be
more durable (I hear of friends/neighbors replacing GFCI outlets pretty
regularly; we've not had to replace any of the *5* GFCI breakers here in
over 20 years).

[Remember, if the GFCI *breaks*, you lose both bathrooms until you get it
replaced]

Some folks will put multiple GFCI's on the same branch circuit (in your case,
one in each bathroom; wiring the downstream outlet to the *line* terminals
of the first GFCI -- think: pigtails). I've heard complaints that the
GFCI's wired thusly interfere with each other but don't know if that is
just a symptom of some OTHER problem.

To determine which receptacle is upstream vs. downstream, turn off power to
that branch circuit. Verify it at *each* receptacle (unless you are 100%
positive that they are, in fact, on the same circuit). Then, look at the
number of black wires "terminating" in each box (or, white if that's easier
for you).

For the upstream device, there should be exactly two blacks -- one bringing
power from the panel and one delivering power to the downstream device.
For the downstream device, there should be exactly one black -- from the
upstream device!

If you see anything other than this, then there are other devices on
the circuit (or, it is actually two circuits!).

The trick now becomes sorting out which of the two black wires (AND THE
ASSOCIATED WHITE) in the upstream box are providing power from the panel
(and which are supplying power to the downstream device).

With the breaker still off, short the black and white wires in the
downstream box. Then, using a voltmeter (or, a flashlight hacked as
a crude "continuity tester"), check each white to it's corresponding black
(you should be able to see which white mates with which black by looking
carefully). The white-black pair that appears as a short is the pair
that feeds the downstream box.

[Verify this by unshorting the downstream wires and noting that the "short"
no longer appears at the upstreeam box]

[[It is *really* important to get the whites paired correctly!]]

On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 9:40:36 AM UTC-5, Wade Garrett wrote:
1979-built house, two bathrooms sharing a common wall, one plain
electrical outlet in each bathroom. Both outlets are on the same
circuit; i.e., one circuit breaker kills them both.

I want to install GFCI protection. Do I need to install one in each
bathroom?

Or is the downstream one protected by its upstream brother? If yes, how
do I determine which one is first in the circuit?

--
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they
have to say something.
�ƒ Plato

Outlets connected to the downstream side are protected by the one
GFCI. To figure it out, if you can get an idea of how the wiring
was probably run, that's a start. If you can't see how it might
be run, I'd just start with the one closest to the panel. Pull
it out of the wall. If it's feeding to elsewhere, separate it,
turn the power back on, see which half is live, which dead and
proceed from there.

On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 2:33:15 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
Hi Wade,

On 3/10/2016 7:40 AM, Wade Garrett wrote:
1979-built house, two bathrooms sharing a common wall, one plain electrical
outlet in each bathroom. Both outlets are on the same circuit; i.e., one
circuit breaker kills them both.

I want to install GFCI protection. Do I need to install one in each bathroom?

No.

Or is the downstream one protected by its upstream brother? If yes, how do I
determine which one is first in the circuit?

You can wire a GFCI so that *other* loads "beyond it" are protected by the
same mechanism in THAT outlet. There are two terminals to which you wire
the "line" coming to the GFCI. Two other terminals allow you to wire a
"load" (i.e., the other "downstream" outlets) that acts AS IF it was plugged
into this receptacle.

I'm not fond of using GFCI's in this way. Instead, I opt to replace the
circuit breaker feeding that circuit with a GFCI breaker.

And then when it trips, instead of resetting it where you are, it's
a trip to the panel to figure out which one it is.


They seem to be
more durable (I hear of friends/neighbors replacing GFCI outlets pretty
regularly; we've not had to replace any of the *5* GFCI breakers here in
over 20 years).

[Remember, if the GFCI *breaks*, you lose both bathrooms until you get it
replaced]


OMG, perish the thought. Per his statement, it's just two receptacles.



Some folks will put multiple GFCI's on the same branch circuit (in your case,
one in each bathroom; wiring the downstream outlet to the *line* terminals
of the first GFCI -- think: pigtails). I've heard complaints that the
GFCI's wired thusly interfere with each other but don't know if that is
just a symptom of some OTHER problem.

To determine which receptacle is upstream vs. downstream, turn off power to
that branch circuit. Verify it at *each* receptacle (unless you are 100%
positive that they are, in fact, on the same circuit). Then, look at the
number of black wires "terminating" in each box (or, white if that's easier
for you).

For the upstream device, there should be exactly two blacks -- one bringing
power from the panel and one delivering power to the downstream device.

Wrong. You could supply power from that circuit to other loads too.


For the downstream device, there should be exactly one black -- from the
upstream device!


Wrong again, because it could feed other loads too.


If you see anything other than this, then there are other devices on
the circuit (or, it is actually two circuits!).


Well, duh!



The trick now becomes sorting out which of the two black wires (AND THE
ASSOCIATED WHITE) in the upstream box are providing power from the panel
(and which are supplying power to the downstream device).

With the breaker still off, short the black and white wires in the
downstream box. Then, using a voltmeter (or, a flashlight hacked as
a crude "continuity tester"), check each white to it's corresponding black
(you should be able to see which white mates with which black by looking
carefully). The white-black pair that appears as a short is the pair
that feeds the downstream box.


Strange way of figuring out the obvious. You can just separate the
wires, turn the power back on and see which is hot.

On 3/10/16 9:40 AM, Wade Garrett wrote:
1979-built house, two bathrooms sharing a common wall, one plain
electrical outlet in each bathroom. Both outlets are on the same
circuit; i.e., one circuit breaker kills them both.

I want to install GFCI protection. Do I need to install one in each
bathroom?

Or is the downstream one protected by its upstream brother? If yes, how
do I determine which one is first in the circuit?


Thanks for the info. I guess my first step is to take a look inside the
boxes and see what's there.

--
With all this €œgun control€� talk, I havent heard one politician say how
they plan to take guns away from criminals and terrorists€” just from law
abiding citizens€¦