I have an outlet that is recessed too much to be able to attach a faceplate.

Any ideas on how to fix it ?

I know I would have to shut off the breaker before doing the repair.

Have a great weekend.

Andy

On Fri, 4 Mar 2016 20:51:08 -0800 (PST), Andy
wrote:

I have an outlet that is recessed too much to be able to attach a faceplate.

Any ideas on how to fix it ?

I know I would have to shut off the breaker before doing the repair.

Have a great weekend.

Andy

Common problem. Someone put the box too far back, or added a layer of
sheetrock, or ceramic tiles, or something else to make the wall thicker.

The fix is simple. Remove the 2 screws that hold the outlet to the box.
Put some spacers on the screws between the outlet and the box. Small
nuts work fine, stack several of them as needed. You may have to buy
longer screws. They are a common hardware store item. You can also buy
plastic, or metal spacers at most hardware stores, that will fit around
a screw.

On Fri, 4 Mar 2016 20:51:08 -0800 (PST), Andy
wrote:

I have an outlet that is recessed too much to be able to attach a faceplate.

Any ideas on how to fix it ?

I know I would have to shut off the breaker before doing the repair.

Have a great weekend.

Andy
Box extender. BE 1-2

I have an outlet that is recessed too much to be able to attach a
faceplate.
Any ideas on how to fix it ?

The fix is simple. Remove the 2 screws that hold the outlet to the
box. Put some spacers on the screws between the outlet and the box.
Small nuts work fine, stack several of them as needed. You may have to
buy longer screws. They are a common hardware store item. You can also
buy plastic, or metal spacers at most hardware stores, that will fit
around a screw.

The "correct" way is to add an extender to the box, effectively bringing
the box out to the front of the wall.

However, if the difference is 1/4" or less, I just use small nuts or
washers as you mentioned to bring the outlet flush with the wall.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

On 3/4/2016 9:51 PM, Andy wrote:
I have an outlet that is recessed too much to be able to attach a faceplate.

How far is too far? A box is supposed to be recessed no more than 1/4"
from the face of the wall surface.

Any ideas on how to fix it ?

*If* it's just a wee bit off, you can try:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ideal-Spacers-5-Pack-772453/202937113
Note that the photo is confusing.

To use as shims, each of the "strips" is really FOUR shims. Imagine
cutting each into four equal sized pieces -- each would have a funny
"three-lobed" hole/slot through it!

If you look carefully, there are two tits protruding from one side
and two mating recesses on the other. I.e., you FOLD the piece in
half so the two tits mate with the two recesses. You then end up with
something twice as thick -- with a SLOT in the center (you'll
have to visualize it being folded to see how the 1st and 3rd of the
"lobes" end up stacked on top of each other with the middle lobe
forming a pathway to that void).

You can loosen the mounting screws (top and bottom) for your duplex
outlet/receptacle. Then, slide one of these onto the portion of the
screw that is exposed BEHIND the outlets yoke. Then, tighten.

I know I would have to shut off the breaker before doing the repair.

Have a great weekend.

Andy

On 3/5/2016 12:10 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 4 Mar 2016 20:51:08 -0800 (PST), Andy
wrote:

I have an outlet that is recessed too much to be able to attach a faceplate.

Any ideas on how to fix it ?

I know I would have to shut off the breaker before doing the repair.

Have a great weekend.

Andy

Common problem. Someone put the box too far back, or added a layer of
sheetrock, or ceramic tiles, or something else to make the wall thicker.

The fix is simple. Remove the 2 screws that hold the outlet to the box.
Put some spacers on the screws between the outlet and the box. Small
nuts work fine, stack several of them as needed. You may have to buy
longer screws. They are a common hardware store item. You can also buy
plastic, or metal spacers at most hardware stores, that will fit around
a screw.

I've seen yellow spacers sold in the electrical
aisle of Home Depot. Plastic folding things.
Agree, longer screws may be needed. I did that
a week or two ago, for a relative.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

|I have an outlet that is recessed too much to be able to attach a
faceplate.
|

There are parts of the answer in several posts
here. You can buy some 6/32 screws that are
longer than normal and just space the outlet
out further, if necessary.

If it's in just a bit too far you can just back
out the existing screws. They're normally about
3/4", so there's some play there.

You can also add an extender, if necessary.

Ideally the tabs will sit on the wall surface so
that you can tighten down the screws. It sounds
like you either have no tabs or the opening is too
big. If the opening is too big you might be
able to build it up with some plaster or durabond,
but that's not critical. The plate screw will prevent
the outlet from pushing in once it's finished, if
you don't use an extender and you can't easily
rebuild the opening.

Where I live, the code requires an extender only
if the wall material is flammable. (Tile, no. Wood
panelling, yes.) The idea is that it's possible for
a spark to happen. (It used to be a big problem
with aluminum wiring.) And if a spark does happen
it shouldn't be able to hit something flammable.
But more to the point is that the contacts should
be wrapped with electrical tape. I rarely see
electricians do that, but if they're wrapped then
there's no risk of sparking or of kids getting their
fingers zapped. Also, if it were already wrapped,
you wouldn't need to shut off the breaker. You
probably won't need to anyway, if you're careful,
but that's up to you.

What I'm saying is that the code *might* require
an extender in your case, if you want to go by the
letter of the law, but if it were me I'd just make sure
to wrap the contacts with electrical tape, then back
out the screws as needed.

On Saturday, March 5, 2016 at 8:45:15 AM UTC-5, Mayayana wrote:
But more to the point is that the contacts should
be wrapped with electrical tape. I rarely see
electricians do that, but if they're wrapped then
there's no risk of sparking or of kids getting their

The contacts? You mean the screws that hold the wires to the outlet?

I have never ever seen this done, and can't picture a way to do it other than wrapping tape round and round the whole outlet, which would look incredibly sloppy.

Unless I'm picturing this wrong?

| The contacts? You mean the screws that hold the wires to the outlet?
|
Yes.

| I have never ever seen this done, and can't picture a way to do it other
than wrapping tape round and round the whole outlet, which would look
incredibly sloppy.
|

Wrapping around once or twice, yes. It is *slightly*
sloppy if you then need to change the outlet, but
that doesn't happen very often. In the meantime,
the exposed screws and wire and covered with
insulation.

I don't know if taping is actually required by code.
It's surprisingly difficult to find full code docs. There's
something called the National Electrical Code, which
is maintained by an organization that apparently makes
a lot of money selling access to it. As a result, despite
having the full MA building code docs, there's just one
page in there, basically saying that it's in accord with
the NEC. And the NEC is a privately owned standard.
So while it's required that these things be publicly
available, somehow they're not. (I ran into a similar
situation with the MA plumbing code, but did eventually
find a copy.)

I used to have a very old book that said wire nuts
should always be taped, but I don't generally see
electricians do it. It seems crazy to me. Taping is
easy, quick, and cheap. In some cases with newer
receptacles the hardware is so big that it has to be
carefully centered to avoid touching the side of the
box. In other cases there's enough room for a person
to touch the contact if the plate is off. I consider
that a safety risk. So why not tape it? A plastic plate
held on with a short screw is not protection against
curious children.

On Fri, 04 Mar 2016 23:10:43 -0600, wrote:

On Fri, 4 Mar 2016 20:51:08 -0800 (PST), Andy
wrote:

I have an outlet that is recessed too much to be able to attach a faceplate.

Any ideas on how to fix it ?

I know I would have to shut off the breaker before doing the repair.

Have a great weekend.

Andy

Common problem. Someone put the box too far back, or added a layer of
sheetrock, or ceramic tiles, or something else to make the wall thicker.

The fix is simple. Remove the 2 screws that hold the outlet to the box.
Put some spacers on the screws between the outlet and the box. Small
nuts work fine, stack several of them as needed. You may have to buy
longer screws. They are a common hardware store item. You can also buy
plastic, or metal spacers at most hardware stores, that will fit around
a screw.
This solution is totally against code and defeats the purpose of
using a box. DO THE RIGHT THING. Get a certified "box extender" and
install it. Anywhere from $0.87 to $2.00 depending which you buy and
where. The box extender "telescopes" into the box - totally adjustable
- or yopu can buy a "box shim" which is better than nuts but may not
pass inspection in some areas.

On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 07:55:11 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 3/5/2016 12:10 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 4 Mar 2016 20:51:08 -0800 (PST), Andy
wrote:

I have an outlet that is recessed too much to be able to attach a faceplate.

Any ideas on how to fix it ?

I know I would have to shut off the breaker before doing the repair.

Have a great weekend.

Andy

Common problem. Someone put the box too far back, or added a layer of
sheetrock, or ceramic tiles, or something else to make the wall thicker.

The fix is simple. Remove the 2 screws that hold the outlet to the box.
Put some spacers on the screws between the outlet and the box. Small
nuts work fine, stack several of them as needed. You may have to buy
longer screws. They are a common hardware store item. You can also buy
plastic, or metal spacers at most hardware stores, that will fit around
a screw.

I've seen yellow spacers sold in the electrical
aisle of Home Depot. Plastic folding things.
Agree, longer screws may be needed. I did that
a week or two ago, for a relative.

-
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.
Non code compliant fix. Box extender is code compliant fix and doesn't
cause issues when the next poor sucker has to change the device.

Like Mike Holmes says - "Make it Right"

On 3/5/2016 8:51 AM, TimR wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2016 at 8:45:15 AM UTC-5, Mayayana wrote:
But more to the point is that the contacts should be wrapped with
electrical tape. I rarely see electricians do that, but if they're wrapped
then there's no risk of sparking or of kids getting their

The contacts? You mean the screws that hold the wires to the outlet?

I have never ever seen this done, and can't picture a way to do it other
than wrapping tape round and round the whole outlet, which would look
incredibly sloppy.

Unless I'm picturing this wrong?

That is how I was taught to install "devices" (switch/receptacle)
in boxes. A few loops around the SIDES of the device (start
on one side, up to the top, down the other side, under the bottom,
back up the first side, etc.). The mounting screws in the yoke
at top and bottom require a bit of skill to navigate around
(don't want to cut the tape). And, you don't want the tape to
slip too far forward and become visible around the edge of the
device after the faceplate is installed.

Was also taught to tug on the conductors in a cut piece of BX
to pull them out of the armor, a bit, then wrap them with tape
before letting them slip back into the sheath (the thinking
being the tape helps protect the wires from the sharp edge of
the BX). Nowadays you can buy little plastic inserts.

Also taught to wrap ROMEX with a few layers of tape before
putting it under a cable clamp.

In every case, you really need quality tape. When I was taught,
the tape was *cloth* and much thicker. Sort of like double-sided
tape (but with very low tack).

OTOH, most folks use plastic boxes, nowadays (I replace plastic
Jboxes with metal whenever I get the chance). And, unless you're
using a lot of #12AWG, devices tend to stay where you place them
(not a lot of pressure trying to push the device out of position
from crunched wires)

[I tend to use oversize boxes so I'm not fighting trying to cram
EXACTLY the maximum number of volume units into a given box. Nor
worried that the threaded PLASTIC boss to which the device will fasten
will "strip" from the pressure of all that "volume"]

On 3/5/2016 10:40 AM, wrote:
Non code compliant fix. Box extender is code compliant fix and doesn't
cause issues when the next poor sucker has to change the device.

Like Mike Holmes says - "Make it Right"

OP hasn't indicated how far off he is. Code allows up to 1/4" recess
behind the surface of the wall. The spacers are less than that.
They're also *wide* and support the entire yoke -- not just a
small "washer" effectively sitting under the screwhead

, or ceramic tiles, or something else to make the wall thicker.
|
| The fix is simple. Remove the 2 screws that hold the outlet to the box.
| Put some spacers on the screws between the outlet and the box. Small
| nuts work fine, stack several of them as needed. You may have to buy
| longer screws. They are a common hardware store item. You can also buy
| plastic, or metal spacers at most hardware stores, that will fit around
| a screw.
| This solution is totally against code and defeats the purpose of
| using a box.

Not in MA. I asked an electrician who I work
with about that awhile back because I frequently
run into that situation. His answer was that
extenders are only needed if the wall material
is combustible. (Generally that would mean wood.)

It may be different in Canada. You use a different
electircal code.

On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 07:51:20 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

On Saturday, March 5, 2016 at 8:45:15 AM UTC-5, Mayayana wrote:
But more to the point is that the contacts should
be wrapped with electrical tape. I rarely see
electricians do that, but if they're wrapped then
there's no risk of sparking or of kids getting their

The contacts? You mean the screws that hold the wires to the outlet?

I have never ever seen this done, and can't picture a way to do it other than wrapping tape round and round the whole outlet, which would look incredibly sloppy.

Unless I'm picturing this wrong?
Manyayna isn't a craftsman or a competent tradesman - certainly not
an electrician.. If his workmanship is so sloppy that the wires on a
switch or outlet can contact the box, and if he leaves plates off of
outlets or switches, or in any other way leaces the connections
accessible to "kids" he should keep his paws off of anything
electrical and hire an electriciam.

IDIOT

On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 12:00:27 -0500, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| The contacts? You mean the screws that hold the wires to the outlet?
|
Yes.

| I have never ever seen this done, and can't picture a way to do it other
than wrapping tape round and round the whole outlet, which would look
incredibly sloppy.
|

Wrapping around once or twice, yes. It is *slightly*
sloppy if you then need to change the outlet, but
that doesn't happen very often. In the meantime,
the exposed screws and wire and covered with
insulation.

I don't know if taping is actually required by code.

MOST DEFINITELY NOT required by code - and most inspectors I know
would very likely fail you for "poor workmanship" if he found them
taped. If you are not cofident enough of your work to KNOW it won't
short to the box you shouldn't be touching anything electrical
It's surprisingly difficult to find full code docs. There's
something called the National Electrical Code, which
is maintained by an organization that apparently makes
a lot of money selling access to it. As a result, despite
having the full MA building code docs, there's just one
page in there, basically saying that it's in accord with
the NEC. And the NEC is a privately owned standard.
So while it's required that these things be publicly
available, somehow they're not. (I ran into a similar
situation with the MA plumbing code, but did eventually
find a copy.)

I used to have a very old book that said wire nuts
should always be taped, but I don't generally see
electricians do it.

It is no longer required by code, or even recommended.

It seems crazy to me. Taping is
easy, quick, and cheap. In some cases with newer
receptacles the hardware is so big that it has to be
carefully centered to avoid touching the side of the
box. In other cases there's enough room for a person
to touch the contact if the plate is off. I consider
that a safety risk. So why not tape it? A plastic plate
held on with a short screw is not protection against
curious children.

Why tape a wire nut? To hold it on? If the wire nut is not
mechanically secure enough to stay on by itself, it is not
electrically secure enough to do it's job - tape or no tape.

| Why tape a wire nut? To hold it on?

No. To cover exposed wires. It generally
shouldn't be necessary, but space in boxes
can be very tight. So why not? It's not as
though it might cause a problem.

For years it was thought that aluminum
wire was fine, until it wasn't. It could spark
rather dramatically due to corrosion and
started a lot of house fires. Those fires
could have been prevented with a little tape.
Tape just ensures that no bare wire is
exposed, for touching or for sparking. I
can't imagine why anyone would feel strongly
*against* it.

On 3/4/2016 8:51 PM, Andy wrote:
I have an outlet that is recessed too much to be able to attach a faceplate.

Any ideas on how to fix it ?

I know I would have to shut off the breaker before doing the repair.

Have a great weekend.

Andy

Common sense is a great thing to have.
LOL

| Manyayna isn't a craftsman or a competent tradesman - certainly not
| an electrician.. If his workmanship is so sloppy that the wires on a
| switch or outlet can contact the box, and if he leaves plates off of
| outlets or switches, or in any other way leaces the connections
| accessible to "kids" he should keep his paws off of anything
| electrical and hire an electriciam.
|
| IDIOT
|

Rather harsh. Can I assume, then, that
you disagree with me, or is this you being
chummy?

On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 07:51:20 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

On Saturday, March 5, 2016 at 8:45:15 AM UTC-5, Mayayana wrote:
But more to the point is that the contacts should
be wrapped with electrical tape. I rarely see
electricians do that, but if they're wrapped then
there's no risk of sparking or of kids getting their

The contacts? You mean the screws that hold the wires to the outlet?

I have never ever seen this done, and can't picture a way to do it other than wrapping tape round and round the whole outlet, which would look incredibly sloppy.

Unless I'm picturing this wrong?

Wrapped on the side, not around.

Pic:

https://tinyurl.com/hp42mqd

In ,
Andy typed:
I have an outlet that is recessed too much to be able to attach a
faceplate.

Any ideas on how to fix it ?

I know I would have to shut off the breaker before doing the repair.

Have a great weekend.

Andy

I agree with the others, including that you can just get Electrical
Receptacle Box Extension Rings and longer screws at Home Depot such as
these:


http://www.homedepot.com/p/compare/?...x%20extende r

On Saturday, March 5, 2016 at 10:51:31 AM UTC-5, TimR wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2016 at 8:45:15 AM UTC-5, Mayayana wrote:
But more to the point is that the contacts should
be wrapped with electrical tape. I rarely see
electricians do that, but if they're wrapped then
there's no risk of sparking or of kids getting their

The contacts? You mean the screws that hold the wires to the outlet?

I have never ever seen this done, and can't picture a way to do it other than wrapping tape round and round the whole outlet, which would look incredibly sloppy.

Unless I'm picturing this wrong?

+1

On Saturday, March 5, 2016 at 2:10:45 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 07:51:20 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

On Saturday, March 5, 2016 at 8:45:15 AM UTC-5, Mayayana wrote:
But more to the point is that the contacts should
be wrapped with electrical tape. I rarely see
electricians do that, but if they're wrapped then
there's no risk of sparking or of kids getting their

The contacts? You mean the screws that hold the wires to the outlet?

I have never ever seen this done, and can't picture a way to do it other than wrapping tape round and round the whole outlet, which would look incredibly sloppy.

Unless I'm picturing this wrong?

Wrapped on the side, not around.

Pic:

https://tinyurl.com/hp42mqd

Thanks for the pic. I had not heard of anybody doing this, and if I'd ever run into it without this discussion, I would have assumed somebody didn't know what they were doing, and I'd have checked the rest of their work twice as carefully.

I have seen wire nuts taped, and I have a friend who was taught that way in his factory's safety classes. The theory was that the nut might someday vibrate loose. I don't like wire nuts myself, prefer the chocolate block type solution whenever possible, but 7 cents versus 3 dollars does make a lot of difference on a big job.

On Saturday, March 5, 2016 at 12:01:19 PM UTC-5, Mayayana wrote:
| The contacts? You mean the screws that hold the wires to the outlet?
|
Yes.

| I have never ever seen this done, and can't picture a way to do it other
than wrapping tape round and round the whole outlet, which would look
incredibly sloppy.
|

Wrapping around once or twice, yes. It is *slightly*
sloppy if you then need to change the outlet, but
that doesn't happen very often. In the meantime,
the exposed screws and wire and covered with
insulation.

I don't know if taping is actually required by code.

It's not and as others have said, I've seen a lot of
switches and receptacles and I've never seen a single
one tape wrapped. No point to it. An inspector would
take one look and know it's the work of a hack.

On Saturday, March 5, 2016 at 1:48:31 PM UTC-5, Mayayana wrote:
| Why tape a wire nut? To hold it on?

No. To cover exposed wires.

What exposed wires? If the wire nut is put on properly, there
are no exposed wires. If it's not, putting tape on it isn't
the solution.


It generally
shouldn't be necessary, but space in boxes
can be very tight. So why not? It's not as
though it might cause a problem.

For years it was thought that aluminum
wire was fine, until it wasn't. It could spark
rather dramatically due to corrosion and
started a lot of house fires. Those fires
could have been prevented with a little tape.
Tape just ensures that no bare wire is
exposed, for touching or for sparking. I
can't imagine why anyone would feel strongly
*against* it.

A waste of time, an extra step that really doesn't
add anything?

On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 13:29:07 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

On Saturday, March 5, 2016 at 2:10:45 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:

(snip)

The contacts? You mean the screws that hold the wires to the outlet?

I have never ever seen this done, and can't picture a way to do it other than wrapping tape round and round the whole outlet, which would look incredibly sloppy.

Unless I'm picturing this wrong?

Wrapped on the side, not around.

Pic:

https://tinyurl.com/hp42mqd

Thanks for the pic. I had not heard of anybody doing this, and if I'd ever run into it without this discussion, I would have assumed somebody didn't know what they were doing, and I'd have checked the rest of their work twice as carefully.


First I saw it done was after I pulled an outlet out one time. The
pic seems to show a metal box. I haven't seen electricians do it,
maybe a DYI thing? I see nothing wrong with the idea.

I have seen wire nuts taped, and I have a friend who was taught that way in his factory's safety classes. The theory was that the nut might someday vibrate loose. I don't like wire nuts myself, prefer the chocolate block type solution whenever possible, but 7 cents versus 3 dollars does make a lot of difference on a big job.

IMO, wire nuts should not be used a second time after the first and
also use the correct size. Just sayin.

On Sat, 05 Mar 2016 10:44:56 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 3/5/2016 8:51 AM, TimR wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2016 at 8:45:15 AM UTC-5, Mayayana wrote:
But more to the point is that the contacts should be wrapped with
electrical tape. I rarely see electricians do that, but if they're wrapped
then there's no risk of sparking or of kids getting their

The contacts? You mean the screws that hold the wires to the outlet?

I have never ever seen this done, and can't picture a way to do it other
than wrapping tape round and round the whole outlet, which would look
incredibly sloppy.

Unless I'm picturing this wrong?

That is how I was taught to install "devices" (switch/receptacle)
in boxes.

Taught by who?

A few loops around the SIDES of the device (start
on one side, up to the top, down the other side, under the bottom,
back up the first side, etc.). The mounting screws in the yoke
at top and bottom require a bit of skill to navigate around
(don't want to cut the tape). And, you don't want the tape to
slip too far forward and become visible around the edge of the
device after the faceplate is installed.

Was also taught to tug on the conductors in a cut piece of BX
to pull them out of the armor, a bit, then wrap them with tape
before letting them slip back into the sheath (the thinking
being the tape helps protect the wires from the sharp edge of
the BX). Nowadays you can buy little plastic inserts.

Again, taught by who: (and when?))
The old AC type cable and the old type connectors REQUIRE he use of
"redheads" Tape does not meat the requirement.
Howeverr, with type MC cable and the approved connectors for type MC
cable, no bushing is required when properly installed because the
connector prevents the wires from contacting the cut end of the cable
armor. Because the "properly installed" can be a little tricky I tend
to err on the side of being cautious and install redheads on all
armoured cable. WAY back, a few wraps of "friction tape" were used in
place of the redheads - plastic tape and cloth based "friction tape"
are two completely different products

Also taught to wrap ROMEX with a few layers of tape before
putting it under a cable clamp.

Tape is moree likely to allow the "romex" to pull out of a clamp than
to help any. You are talking about the "cable clamp" that allows the
romex to securely enter a Junction box, correct??? Was this back in
the day od the tar/paper sheithed "romex"???

In every case, you really need quality tape. When I was taught,
the tape was *cloth* and much thicker. Sort of like double-sided
tape (but with very low tack).

OK - you are talking about Friction tape - so you are talking the
sixties or earlier???

Products and procedures have changed a LOT since then. What may have
been common practice back then won't even pass code/inspection today.

OTOH, most folks use plastic boxes, nowadays (I replace plastic
Jboxes with metal whenever I get the chance). And, unless you're
using a lot of #12AWG, devices tend to stay where you place them
(not a lot of pressure trying to push the device out of position
from crunched wires)

[I tend to use oversize boxes so I'm not fighting trying to cram
EXACTLY the maximum number of volume units into a given box. Nor
worried that the threaded PLASTIC boss to which the device will fasten
will "strip" from the pressure of all that "volume"]

+2 on that. Plastic boxes, although meeting minimum code, are a CURSE.

When pigtailing copper to aluminum in those situations where approved
aluminum compatible devices are not available I use stranded copper to
eliminate strain on the copper/aluminum connections. If done using
Marrette63 or 63 connectors (prown phenolic) it is code compliant -
particularly if the joint is made using no-ox type compound on the
joint.

On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 12:48:35 -0500, "Mayayana"
wrote:

, or ceramic tiles, or something else to make the wall thicker.
|
| The fix is simple. Remove the 2 screws that hold the outlet to the box.
| Put some spacers on the screws between the outlet and the box. Small
| nuts work fine, stack several of them as needed. You may have to buy
| longer screws. They are a common hardware store item. You can also buy
| plastic, or metal spacers at most hardware stores, that will fit around
| a screw.
| This solution is totally against code and defeats the purpose of
| using a box.

Not in MA. I asked an electrician who I work
with about that awhile back because I frequently
run into that situation. His answer was that
extenders are only needed if the wall material
is combustible. (Generally that would mean wood.)

It may be different in Canada. You use a different
electircal code.

Wgat about the lumber stud the box is fastened to???
On steel studs you could make a case.

On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 13:47:39 -0500, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| Why tape a wire nut? To hold it on?

No. To cover exposed wires. It generally
shouldn't be necessary, but space in boxes
can be very tight. So why not? It's not as
though it might cause a problem.

There should never be ANY exposed wire in a properly installed wire
nut. If tape is required, it is not properly installed, and if it is
taped any competent inspector is going to assume it is NOT properly
installed.

For years it was thought that aluminum
wire was fine, until it wasn't. It could spark
rather dramatically due to corrosion and
started a lot of house fires.

Aluminum wire is still perfectly safe IF PROPERLY INSTALLED.

Those fires
could have been prevented with a little tape.

No they could not. Tape does not make the connection electrically
solid. Any fires caused by aluminum wire and/or poor workmanship
installing it were not from the wire coming off and contacting ground
and would NOT be prevented by taping the connection.
Tape just ensures that no bare wire is
exposed, for touching or for sparking. I
can't imagine why anyone would feel strongly
*against* it.


Because it can conseal bad workmanship but cannot correct it or
mitigate damage resulting from said poor workmanship.

It's a HACK.

On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 14:00:58 -0500, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| Manyayna isn't a craftsman or a competent tradesman - certainly not
| an electrician.. If his workmanship is so sloppy that the wires on a
| switch or outlet can contact the box, and if he leaves plates off of
| outlets or switches, or in any other way leaces the connections
| accessible to "kids" he should keep his paws off of anything
| electrical and hire an electriciam.
|
| IDIOT
|

Rather harsh. Can I assume, then, that
you disagree with me, or is this you being
chummy?

I deffinitely dissagree with you.

On Sat, 05 Mar 2016 11:10:29 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 07:51:20 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

On Saturday, March 5, 2016 at 8:45:15 AM UTC-5, Mayayana wrote:
But more to the point is that the contacts should
be wrapped with electrical tape. I rarely see
electricians do that, but if they're wrapped then
there's no risk of sparking or of kids getting their

The contacts? You mean the screws that hold the wires to the outlet?

I have never ever seen this done, and can't picture a way to do it other than wrapping tape round and round the whole outlet, which would look incredibly sloppy.

Unless I'm picturing this wrong?

Wrapped on the side, not around.

Pic:

https://tinyurl.com/hp42mqd
I still say it is a "hack" job.

On Sat, 05 Mar 2016 13:50:26 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 13:29:07 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

On Saturday, March 5, 2016 at 2:10:45 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:

(snip)

The contacts? You mean the screws that hold the wires to the outlet?

I have never ever seen this done, and can't picture a way to do it other than wrapping tape round and round the whole outlet, which would look incredibly sloppy.

Unless I'm picturing this wrong?

Wrapped on the side, not around.

Pic:

https://tinyurl.com/hp42mqd

Thanks for the pic. I had not heard of anybody doing this, and if I'd ever run into it without this discussion, I would have assumed somebody didn't know what they were doing, and I'd have checked the rest of their work twice as carefully.


First I saw it done was after I pulled an outlet out one time. The
pic seems to show a metal box. I haven't seen electricians do it,
maybe a DYI thing? I see nothing wrong with the idea.

I have seen wire nuts taped, and I have a friend who was taught that way in his factory's safety classes. The theory was that the nut might someday vibrate loose. I don't like wire nuts myself, prefer the chocolate block type solution whenever possible, but 7 cents versus 3 dollars does make a lot of difference on a big job.

IMO, wire nuts should not be used a second time after the first and
also use the correct size. Just sayin.
"properly installed" means "right product for the application"
Improperly installed and./ or wrong product means poor workmanship,
and generally speaking - unsafe.

"do it rignt"

On Saturday, March 5, 2016 at 3:29:20 PM UTC-6, TimR wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2016 at 2:10:45 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 07:51:20 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

On Saturday, March 5, 2016 at 8:45:15 AM UTC-5, Mayayana wrote:
But more to the point is that the contacts should
be wrapped with electrical tape. I rarely see
electricians do that, but if they're wrapped then
there's no risk of sparking or of kids getting their

The contacts? You mean the screws that hold the wires to the outlet?

I have never ever seen this done, and can't picture a way to do it other than wrapping tape round and round the whole outlet, which would look incredibly sloppy.

Unless I'm picturing this wrong?

Wrapped on the side, not around.

Pic:

https://tinyurl.com/hp42mqd

Thanks for the pic. I had not heard of anybody doing this, and if I'd ever run into it without this discussion, I would have assumed somebody didn't know what they were doing, and I'd have checked the rest of their work twice as carefully.

I have seen wire nuts taped, and I have a friend who was taught that way in his factory's safety classes. The theory was that the nut might someday vibrate loose. I don't like wire nuts myself, prefer the chocolate block type solution whenever possible, but 7 cents versus 3 dollars does make a lot of difference on a big job.

I used the newer push in and lever action connectors on all the last of the electrical work I did. I used those manufactured by Wago and Ideal. The Wago lever connectors are the best for light fixtures because a #12 stranded or solid can be put in one opening and the little #18 solid or stranded fixture wire can be inserted into another port. To remove a wire, you lift the locking lever and slide the wire out. The connectors are completely reusable. Wago and Ideal make very good push on connectors that make quick reliable connections. I like them because they don't take up as much room as wire nuts. ^_^

http://www.wago.us/

http://www.wago.us/products/terminal...ries/overview/

http://tinyurl.com/h9tx8om

http://www.wago.us/products/terminal...ries/overview/

http://tinyurl.com/hg5zrpy

http://www.idealind.com/prodDetail.d...v=0&l1=push-in

http://tinyurl.com/osllj63

[8~{} Uncle Wire Monster

On Sat, 05 Mar 2016 20:46:34 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 05 Mar 2016 13:50:26 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 13:29:07 -0800 (PST), TimR
wrote:

On Saturday, March 5, 2016 at 2:10:45 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:

(snip)

The contacts? You mean the screws that hold the wires to the outlet?

I have never ever seen this done, and can't picture a way to do it other than wrapping tape round and round the whole outlet, which would look incredibly sloppy.

Unless I'm picturing this wrong?

Wrapped on the side, not around.

Pic:

https://tinyurl.com/hp42mqd

Thanks for the pic. I had not heard of anybody doing this, and if I'd ever run into it without this discussion, I would have assumed somebody didn't know what they were doing, and I'd have checked the rest of their work twice as carefully.


First I saw it done was after I pulled an outlet out one time. The
pic seems to show a metal box. I haven't seen electricians do it,
maybe a DYI thing? I see nothing wrong with the idea.

I have seen wire nuts taped, and I have a friend who was taught that way in his factory's safety classes. The theory was that the nut might someday vibrate loose. I don't like wire nuts myself, prefer the chocolate block type solution whenever possible, but 7 cents versus 3 dollars does make a lot of difference on a big job.

IMO, wire nuts should not be used a second time after the first and
also use the correct size. Just sayin.
"properly installed" means "right product for the application"
Improperly installed and./ or wrong product means poor workmanship,
and generally speaking - unsafe.

"do it rignt"

I didn't say I condoned it, but that I have seen it done on an outlet
I removed years ago.

I do use tape on wire nuts in outside low voltage lawn irrigation
valve boxes.

| Wgat about the lumber stud the box is fastened to???
| On steel studs you could make a case.

Usually the box is extending 1/2" past the stud.
A typical situation I run into is someone who wants
me to tile a kitchen backsplash. With concrete board
and tile I'm coming out about 1/2", but that's 1/2"
beyond the drywall. The material that a spark could
actually hit is mortar and tile.

|ttcc| dddd| wwwwwwwwww
|___ |____ |_______________________
| |
RRR | electrical box |
RRR | |

t=tile. c=concrete board. d=drywall. w=wood. R=receptacle.

That's legal. To reach the wood, a spark would have
to travel 1/2"+ backward, assuming there's even a
gap between the drywall and box. But I also tape
the receptacle, so don't worry.

| Aluminum wire is still perfectly safe IF PROPERLY INSTALLED.
|
Maybe in Canada. In the US it's been banned
since, I think, the 70s, except for specific uses
like stove "pigtail" connectors. It caused a lot of
fires. It's not allowed for general use in house
wiring because it corrodes and then arcs. It doesn't
matter if it's installed properly. That's why it's
banned. The corrosion is the problem, not the
installation. Though of course if you want to use
it in your house, I'd use tape over receptacle
terminals if I were you.

| Those fires
| could have been prevented with a little tape.
|
| No they could not. Tape does not make the connection electrically
| solid. Any fires caused by aluminum wire and/or poor workmanship
| installing it were not from the wire coming off and contacting ground
| and would NOT be prevented by taping the connection.

I've seen them in action -- outlets where there's
arcing because of extreme corrosion. Your missing
the point repeatedly because you're stuck on the
notion you cooked up that I'm advocating connecting
wires with tape. If you'd just read what people write
instead of competing all the time it would make the
discussion clearer and more brief.

On 3/5/2016 6:28 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 05 Mar 2016 10:44:56 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

That is how I was taught to install "devices" (switch/receptacle)
in boxes.

Taught by who?

Three licensed master electrician uncles. I'd tag along to job
sites (always handy to have a kid with lots of energy to pull
cables "down the other end") and pester them with questions.
And, the "easy things" would fall into my lap (perhaps as a way
to keep me from asking MORE questions!).

None were related to each other so only had "me" in common.
And, rarely dealt with two on the same "job". So, if Uncle1
had taught me something that Uncle2 didn't endorse, you can
bet I'd hear about it!

A few loops around the SIDES of the device (start
on one side, up to the top, down the other side, under the bottom,
back up the first side, etc.). The mounting screws in the yoke
at top and bottom require a bit of skill to navigate around
(don't want to cut the tape). And, you don't want the tape to
slip too far forward and become visible around the edge of the
device after the faceplate is installed.

Was also taught to tug on the conductors in a cut piece of BX
to pull them out of the armor, a bit, then wrap them with tape
before letting them slip back into the sheath (the thinking
being the tape helps protect the wires from the sharp edge of
the BX). Nowadays you can buy little plastic inserts.

Again, taught by who: (and when?))

See above. I've not used BX since I was a kid. Houses were typically
wired with 14/2 or 12/2 BX, back then (no grounds).

When I need flexibility, now, I use liquid-tite flexible conduit.
E.g., typically outdoors (connect AC compressor to its disconnect;
connect swamp cooler; etc.).

Anything indoors is ROMEX. Anything outdoors is EMT.

The old AC type cable and the old type connectors REQUIRE he use of
"redheads" Tape does not meat the requirement.
Howeverr, with type MC cable and the approved connectors for type MC
cable, no bushing is required when properly installed because the
connector prevents the wires from contacting the cut end of the cable
armor. Because the "properly installed" can be a little tricky I tend
to err on the side of being cautious and install redheads on all
armoured cable. WAY back, a few wraps of "friction tape" were used in
place of the redheads - plastic tape and cloth based "friction tape"
are two completely different products

Also taught to wrap ROMEX with a few layers of tape before
putting it under a cable clamp.

Tape is moree likely to allow the "romex" to pull out of a clamp than
to help any. You are talking about the "cable clamp" that allows the
romex to securely enter a Junction box, correct??? Was this back in
the day od the tar/paper sheithed "romex"???

In every case, you really need quality tape. When I was taught,
the tape was *cloth* and much thicker. Sort of like double-sided
tape (but with very low tack).

OK - you are talking about Friction tape - so you are talking the
sixties or earlier???

Yup.

Products and procedures have changed a LOT since then. What may have
been common practice back then won't even pass code/inspection today.

Lots of "inspector eyes" on work I've done, over the years. *My*
habits haven't changed -- yet none have complained about these
practices. Some have commented (but not flagged) on my "upside down"
receptacles.

Caught some flack over an overly large wire nut one time (inspector
claimed I could have used next smaller size and saved some space in
the box). Also get lots of comments regarding spacings on low voltage
cabling.

IME, they are primarily concerned with:
- neatness (does it LOOK like it was planned vs. /ad hoc/?)
- "respect" (for want of a better word) for the job they are doing
- grounds

OTOH, most folks use plastic boxes, nowadays (I replace plastic
Jboxes with metal whenever I get the chance). And, unless you're
using a lot of #12AWG, devices tend to stay where you place them
(not a lot of pressure trying to push the device out of position
from crunched wires)

[I tend to use oversize boxes so I'm not fighting trying to cram
EXACTLY the maximum number of volume units into a given box. Nor
worried that the threaded PLASTIC boss to which the device will fasten
will "strip" from the pressure of all that "volume"]

+2 on that. Plastic boxes, although meeting minimum code, are a CURSE.

I think they are fine for brand new construction -- if the house is
eventually demolished before any of them see any rework!

But, IME, opening up a plastic box is just inviting SOMETHING to go
wrong!

And, bakelite ("an early plastic") boxes are the worst!

When pigtailing copper to aluminum in those situations where approved
aluminum compatible devices are not available I use stranded copper to
eliminate strain on the copper/aluminum connections. If done using
Marrette63 or 63 connectors (prown phenolic) it is code compliant -
particularly if the joint is made using no-ox type compound on the
joint.

Eschew aluminum. I don't see that it buys you anything. A neighbor
had his load center catch fire due to corrosion on aluminum cables.
"OK, which one of you wants to walk up to it and pull the main?"