12 HP Honda single - BCS walkbehind, single-stage snowblower attachment.

Crude as it is, this thing has always been something of a beast....
chewing it's way through all kinds of stuff.

Had it out for a couple hours today in 18-24" of the white and fluffy...
and it seems to me like it's only putting out maybe 1/2 or 2/3 of it's
usual power.

Along with that, something has frozen in the throttle linkage so it only
goes full-bore.... got it in the garage thawing out right now.

Assuming the throttle linkage is a separate/unrelated issue, can anybody
suggest what I am looking for to explain the power loss ?

No smoke, so I am guessing I haven't broken a ring...

--
Pete Cresswell

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
12 HP Honda single - BCS walkbehind, single-stage snowblower
attachment.

Crude as it is, this thing has always been something of a beast....
chewing it's way through all kinds of stuff.

Had it out for a couple hours today in 18-24" of the white and
fluffy... and it seems to me like it's only putting out maybe 1/2 or
2/3 of it's usual power.

Along with that, something has frozen in the throttle linkage so it
only goes full-bore.... got it in the garage thawing out right now.

Assuming the throttle linkage is a separate/unrelated issue, can
anybody suggest what I am looking for to explain the power loss ?

No smoke, so I am guessing I haven't broken a ring...

That throttle issue may be the cause . It may over-rev at no load and still
not get full throttle when under load .

--
Snag

On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 14:44:48 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

12 HP Honda single - BCS walkbehind, single-stage snowblower attachment.

Crude as it is, this thing has always been something of a beast....
chewing it's way through all kinds of stuff.

Had it out for a couple hours today in 18-24" of the white and fluffy...
and it seems to me like it's only putting out maybe 1/2 or 2/3 of it's
usual power.

Along with that, something has frozen in the throttle linkage so it only
goes full-bore.... got it in the garage thawing out right now.

Assuming the throttle linkage is a separate/unrelated issue, can anybody
suggest what I am looking for to explain the power loss ?

No smoke, so I am guessing I haven't broken a ring...
Likely the frozen throttle , the governor is not responding to load

On 1/23/2016 2:44 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
12 HP Honda single - BCS walkbehind, single-stage snowblower attachment.

Crude as it is, this thing has always been something of a beast....
chewing it's way through all kinds of stuff.

Had it out for a couple hours today in 18-24" of the white and fluffy...
and it seems to me like it's only putting out maybe 1/2 or 2/3 of it's
usual power.

Along with that, something has frozen in the throttle linkage so it only
goes full-bore.... got it in the garage thawing out right now.

Assuming the throttle linkage is a separate/unrelated issue, can anybody
suggest what I am looking for to explain the power loss ?

No smoke, so I am guessing I haven't broken a ring...

My first thoughts are to examine the simple
things. Air filter? Fuel filter? Water in
the fuel? Always inspect the spark plug.
Oil level full?

Online troubleshooting manual maybe out there
for you? Did you read your own manual that came
with the machine?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 17:47:30 -0500, wrote:

Likely the frozen throttle , the governor is not responding to load

I was gonna say the same thing.

Warm it up, spray cable with a silicone lube. (or replace cable).

On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 18:25:16 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 1/23/2016 2:44 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
12 HP Honda single - BCS walkbehind, single-stage snowblower attachment.

Crude as it is, this thing has always been something of a beast....
chewing it's way through all kinds of stuff.

Had it out for a couple hours today in 18-24" of the white and fluffy...
and it seems to me like it's only putting out maybe 1/2 or 2/3 of it's
usual power.

Along with that, something has frozen in the throttle linkage so it only
goes full-bore.... got it in the garage thawing out right now.

Assuming the throttle linkage is a separate/unrelated issue, can anybody
suggest what I am looking for to explain the power loss ?

No smoke, so I am guessing I haven't broken a ring...

My first thoughts are to examine the simple
things. Air filter? Fuel filter? Water in
the fuel? Always inspect the spark plug.
Oil level full?

Online troubleshooting manual maybe out there
for you? Did you read your own manual that came
with the machine?
No air filter on snow blowers, generally

On Saturday, January 23, 2016 at 7:49:28 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 18:25:16 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 1/23/2016 2:44 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
12 HP Honda single - BCS walkbehind, single-stage snowblower attachment.

Crude as it is, this thing has always been something of a beast....
chewing it's way through all kinds of stuff.

Had it out for a couple hours today in 18-24" of the white and fluffy...
and it seems to me like it's only putting out maybe 1/2 or 2/3 of it's
usual power.

Along with that, something has frozen in the throttle linkage so it only
goes full-bore.... got it in the garage thawing out right now.

Assuming the throttle linkage is a separate/unrelated issue, can anybody
suggest what I am looking for to explain the power loss ?

No smoke, so I am guessing I haven't broken a ring...

My first thoughts are to examine the simple
things. Air filter? Fuel filter? Water in
the fuel? Always inspect the spark plug.
Oil level full?

Online troubleshooting manual maybe out there
for you? Did you read your own manual that came
with the machine?
No air filter on snow blowers, generally

I'm glad you said "generally". ;-)

I don't like that this guy says "typically".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZnkiCDlXQk

On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 18:00:27 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, January 23, 2016 at 7:49:28 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 18:25:16 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 1/23/2016 2:44 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
12 HP Honda single - BCS walkbehind, single-stage snowblower attachment.

Crude as it is, this thing has always been something of a beast....
chewing it's way through all kinds of stuff.

Had it out for a couple hours today in 18-24" of the white and fluffy...
and it seems to me like it's only putting out maybe 1/2 or 2/3 of it's
usual power.

Along with that, something has frozen in the throttle linkage so it only
goes full-bore.... got it in the garage thawing out right now.

Assuming the throttle linkage is a separate/unrelated issue, can anybody
suggest what I am looking for to explain the power loss ?

No smoke, so I am guessing I haven't broken a ring...

My first thoughts are to examine the simple
things. Air filter? Fuel filter? Water in
the fuel? Always inspect the spark plug.
Oil level full?

Online troubleshooting manual maybe out there
for you? Did you read your own manual that came
with the machine?
No air filter on snow blowers, generally

I'm glad you said "generally". ;-)

I don't like that this guy says "typically".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZnkiCDlXQk
If it has a "snowblower" engine it has no filter and has a preheat
box in it's place. B&S SnowKing is a good example, and the Techumseh
HS series another. The Honda and Yamerhammer blowers also have no
filter.

Any blower with an air filter is highly likely to run poorly if at all
in "typical" winter weather while blowing snow.

On Saturday, January 23, 2016 at 9:02:40 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 18:00:27 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, January 23, 2016 at 7:49:28 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 18:25:16 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 1/23/2016 2:44 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
12 HP Honda single - BCS walkbehind, single-stage snowblower attachment.

Crude as it is, this thing has always been something of a beast....
chewing it's way through all kinds of stuff.

Had it out for a couple hours today in 18-24" of the white and fluffy...
and it seems to me like it's only putting out maybe 1/2 or 2/3 of it's
usual power.

Along with that, something has frozen in the throttle linkage so it only
goes full-bore.... got it in the garage thawing out right now.

Assuming the throttle linkage is a separate/unrelated issue, can anybody
suggest what I am looking for to explain the power loss ?

No smoke, so I am guessing I haven't broken a ring...

My first thoughts are to examine the simple
things. Air filter? Fuel filter? Water in
the fuel? Always inspect the spark plug.
Oil level full?

Online troubleshooting manual maybe out there
for you? Did you read your own manual that came
with the machine?
No air filter on snow blowers, generally

I'm glad you said "generally". ;-)

I don't like that this guy says "typically".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZnkiCDlXQk
If it has a "snowblower" engine it has no filter and has a preheat
box in it's place. B&S SnowKing is a good example, and the Techumseh
HS series another. The Honda and Yamerhammer blowers also have no
filter.

Any blower with an air filter is highly likely to run poorly if at all
in "typical" winter weather while blowing snow.

Snow King is Tecumseh or LCT not Briggs.

On Saturday, January 23, 2016 at 10:02:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 18:00:27 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, January 23, 2016 at 7:49:28 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 18:25:16 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 1/23/2016 2:44 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
12 HP Honda single - BCS walkbehind, single-stage snowblower attachment.

Crude as it is, this thing has always been something of a beast....
chewing it's way through all kinds of stuff.

Had it out for a couple hours today in 18-24" of the white and fluffy...
and it seems to me like it's only putting out maybe 1/2 or 2/3 of it's
usual power.

Along with that, something has frozen in the throttle linkage so it only
goes full-bore.... got it in the garage thawing out right now.

Assuming the throttle linkage is a separate/unrelated issue, can anybody
suggest what I am looking for to explain the power loss ?

No smoke, so I am guessing I haven't broken a ring...

My first thoughts are to examine the simple
things. Air filter? Fuel filter? Water in
the fuel? Always inspect the spark plug.
Oil level full?

Online troubleshooting manual maybe out there
for you? Did you read your own manual that came
with the machine?
No air filter on snow blowers, generally

I'm glad you said "generally". ;-)

I don't like that this guy says "typically".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZnkiCDlXQk
If it has a "snowblower" engine it has no filter and has a preheat
box in it's place. B&S SnowKing is a good example, and the Techumseh
HS series another. The Honda and Yamerhammer blowers also have no
filter.


B&S SnowKing? I don't think that's a good example, since it doesn't exist.

Any blower with an air filter is highly likely to run poorly if at all
in "typical" winter weather while blowing snow.

I know...I was just playing around, but they (it?) are out there.

I look at some of the other videos that that guy did trying to figure
out what kind of snow blower that was. In another video he explained
how to adjust the auger *chain*.

One of the comments below the video read:

"John how about tips on a snow blower that was built in this century?"

Now that's funny!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnKZj-vxK-0

On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 19:12:11 -0800 (PST), bob_villain
wrote:

On Saturday, January 23, 2016 at 9:02:40 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 18:00:27 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, January 23, 2016 at 7:49:28 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 18:25:16 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 1/23/2016 2:44 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
12 HP Honda single - BCS walkbehind, single-stage snowblower attachment.

Crude as it is, this thing has always been something of a beast....
chewing it's way through all kinds of stuff.

Had it out for a couple hours today in 18-24" of the white and fluffy...
and it seems to me like it's only putting out maybe 1/2 or 2/3 of it's
usual power.

Along with that, something has frozen in the throttle linkage so it only
goes full-bore.... got it in the garage thawing out right now.

Assuming the throttle linkage is a separate/unrelated issue, can anybody
suggest what I am looking for to explain the power loss ?

No smoke, so I am guessing I haven't broken a ring...

My first thoughts are to examine the simple
things. Air filter? Fuel filter? Water in
the fuel? Always inspect the spark plug.
Oil level full?

Online troubleshooting manual maybe out there
for you? Did you read your own manual that came
with the machine?
No air filter on snow blowers, generally

I'm glad you said "generally". ;-)

I don't like that this guy says "typically".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZnkiCDlXQk
If it has a "snowblower" engine it has no filter and has a preheat
box in it's place. B&S SnowKing is a good example, and the Techumseh
HS series another. The Honda and Yamerhammer blowers also have no
filter.

Any blower with an air filter is highly likely to run poorly if at all
in "typical" winter weather while blowing snow.

Snow King is Tecumseh or LCT not Briggs.
Sorry - you are right - Tecumseh Snow king - Can't remember the
Briggs designation on the winter duty L Head..

The new Briggs IHV's may be using "general duty" intakes.

On 1/23/2016 7:49 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 18:25:16 -0500, Stormin Mormon
My first thoughts are to examine the simple
things. Air filter? Fuel filter? Water in
the fuel? Always inspect the spark plug.
Oil level full?

Online troubleshooting manual maybe out there
for you? Did you read your own manual that came
with the machine?
No air filter on snow blowers, generally


I'd forgotten about the absence of air filters.

As a northern boy, please don't call me General Lee.
(smile here)

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

Per :
Any blower with an air filter is highly likely to run poorly if at all
in "typical" winter weather while blowing snow.

That's an interesting observation for me - because this thing is
basically a multi-purpose walk-behind tractor... so it the engine does
have an air filter.

(BCS.... poor build quality + poor design + a design that never got
tweaked for the inevitable bugs after release)

It's the next day now and it's thoroughly thawed out from sitting in a
heated area all night.

I'm going to fire it up and see what happens.

If there the power is still lacking, I'll start taking things apart.

If the power drops off again, I'll pull the air filter and see what
happens.

Thanks for the insights.
--
Pete Cresswell

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 09:13:22 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per :
Any blower with an air filter is highly likely to run poorly if at all
in "typical" winter weather while blowing snow.

That's an interesting observation for me - because this thing is
basically a multi-purpose walk-behind tractor... so it the engine does
have an air filter.

(BCS.... poor build quality + poor design + a design that never got
tweaked for the inevitable bugs after release)

It's the next day now and it's thoroughly thawed out from sitting in a
heated area all night.

I'm going to fire it up and see what happens.

If there the power is still lacking, I'll start taking things apart.

If the power drops off again, I'll pull the air filter and see what
happens.

Thanks for the insights.

See _Engine lacks power _ (if this helps)

http://static.ddmcdn.com/pdf/how-to-repair-small-engines.pdf

Per (PeteCresswell):
It's the next day now and it's thoroughly thawed out from sitting in a
heated area all night.

Yup.... Miracle cure. Back to full power and responsive throttle.

But now it is surging most of the time and occasionally backfiring on
full throttle.

This thing must be 10 years old and has never had points or plug
replaced.

Points/plug would be the likely cause, right ?
--
Pete Cresswell

Per (PeteCresswell):
This thing must be 10 years old and has never had points or plug
replaced.

Points/plug would be the likely cause, right ?

Oops.... should have read
http://static.ddmcdn.com/pdf/how-to-repair-small-engines.pdf
before I wrote that.

"Engine misfires under load".... Looks like a few hours of entertainment
coming up....
--
Pete Cresswell

On 1/25/2016 8:34 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

Yup.... Miracle cure. Back to full power and responsive throttle.

But now it is surging most of the time and occasionally backfiring on
full throttle.

This thing must be 10 years old and has never had points or plug
replaced.

Points/plug would be the likely cause, right ?


Surging usually means rusty spring on the
throttle mechanism. (Learned that in a
small engine repair course.)

Unsure about the backfiring.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per (PeteCresswell):
This thing must be 10 years old and has never had points or plug
replaced.

Points/plug would be the likely cause, right ?

Oops.... should have read
http://static.ddmcdn.com/pdf/how-to-repair-small-engines.pdf
before I wrote that.

"Engine misfires under load".... Looks like a few hours of
entertainment coming up....

I'd try running some Seafoam or similar through it . There's been a
discussion going on about surging over at the Kohler Engine group ,
consensus is it's likely caused by a lean condition at full throttle . If
yours has an adjustable main jet try opening the screw a quarter turn and
see what that does . My little Rusty Tractor surges too , I just read about
this and haven't had a chance to try the adjustment . It didn't do this
until after I rebuilt the motor ...

--
Snag

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 08:34:06 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per (PeteCresswell):
It's the next day now and it's thoroughly thawed out from sitting in a
heated area all night.

Yup.... Miracle cure. Back to full power and responsive throttle.

But now it is surging most of the time and occasionally backfiring on
full throttle.

This thing must be 10 years old and has never had points or plug
replaced.

Points/plug would be the likely cause, right ?
More likely water in the gas - it'll fart and backfire like crazy
from being too lean. Out some "sea foam" in and open the main jet 1/4
turn. After running the sea-foam through you MAY be able to turn the
jet screw back in again,

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 08:59:46 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 1/25/2016 8:34 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

Yup.... Miracle cure. Back to full power and responsive throttle.

But now it is surging most of the time and occasionally backfiring on
full throttle.

This thing must be 10 years old and has never had points or plug
replaced.

Points/plug would be the likely cause, right ?


Surging usually means rusty spring on the
throttle mechanism. (Learned that in a
small engine repair course.)

Unsure about the backfiring.
Too lean will cause both. Don't screw with the governor unless you
know EXACTLY what you are doing.

Being an "old" machine it will have an adjustable high speed jet as
well as an adjustable low speed jet.

Crank the high speed jet out 1/4 turn or so and see what happens.

If it surges at idle you may need to crank the idle mix screw out.

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 08:34:06 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per (PeteCresswell):
It's the next day now and it's thoroughly thawed out from sitting in a
heated area all night.

Yup.... Miracle cure. Back to full power and responsive throttle.

But now it is surging most of the time and occasionally backfiring on
full throttle.

This thing must be 10 years old and has never had points or plug
replaced.

Points/plug would be the likely cause, right ?

First off, lube that cable while its warm.
After 10 years, new plug, points and condenser is a good idea.
You might also have crud in the fuel bowl on the carburator. A complete
carb rebuild would be the best, but at least remove the bowl and clean
out the crud. If a fuel filter exists, replace it.

Surging is often the result of the governor needing adjustment, but
could also be caused by insufficient fuel getting to the engine. I'd
suggest doing the (above) things to the carb first, and adjusting the
carb too. Then if that dont do it, get the factory specs for adjusting
the governor (and carb adjustments).

Backfiring is a result of the timing being off. On a small engine, that
is set by proper afjustment of points and making sure the flywheel is
positioned correctly (no sheared key), and the correct gap exists
between the magneto and the flywheel. (a sheet of newspaper is about
right).

On Monday, January 25, 2016 at 4:56:52 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 08:34:06 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per (PeteCresswell):
It's the next day now and it's thoroughly thawed out from sitting in a
heated area all night.

Yup.... Miracle cure. Back to full power and responsive throttle.

But now it is surging most of the time and occasionally backfiring on
full throttle.

This thing must be 10 years old and has never had points or plug
replaced.

Points/plug would be the likely cause, right ?

First off, lube that cable while its warm.
After 10 years, new plug, points and condenser is a good idea.
You might also have crud in the fuel bowl on the carburator. A complete
carb rebuild would be the best, but at least remove the bowl and clean
out the crud. If a fuel filter exists, replace it.

Surging is often the result of the governor needing adjustment, but
could also be caused by insufficient fuel getting to the engine. I'd
suggest doing the (above) things to the carb first, and adjusting the
carb too. Then if that dont do it, get the factory specs for adjusting
the governor (and carb adjustments).

Backfiring is a result of the timing being off. On a small engine, that
is set by proper afjustment of points and making sure the flywheel is
positioned correctly (no sheared key), and the correct gap exists
between the magneto and the flywheel. (a sheet of newspaper is about
right).

You have to go back 35+ yrs to find points and condensers on small engines! Sheared keys are mainly a mower problem.

On 1/25/2016 4:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 08:34:06 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Backfiring is a result of the timing being off.

Too lean of a fuel/air mixture also causes backfires, so the fuel system
is the best place to start.

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 08:37:01 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per (PeteCresswell):
This thing must be 10 years old and has never had points or plug
replaced.

Points/plug would be the likely cause, right ?

Oops.... should have read
http://static.ddmcdn.com/pdf/how-to-repair-small-engines.pdf
before I wrote that.

"Engine misfires under load".... Looks like a few hours of entertainment
coming up....

Follow the simple solutions first