A friend calls me just now. She has gas heat, forced air, and the
furnace is broken. The repairman comes but not until 4. He says she
doesn't have enough gas pressure, and he did something that made it a
little higher, but he said she needs a part and he said the furnace
wasn't safe so he turned it off. He also told her the furnace was so
old it wasn't worth replacing the part, but she says the furance is
only about 15 years old. IIUC he's supposed to call her tomorrow
when he learns more about the part. I don't know the furnace make
or model.

I've never heard of low gas pressure caused by a furnace or anything
in the house???

The heat has been broken for a few days, I gather, and it's 60 degrees
in the house and tonight is supposed to be down to 17 (maybe it was
yesterday it was supposed to be colder than that) and she's worried
the pipe to her kitchen sink will freeze. The sink is against a
window so does that mean the pipes are in the outer wall or might they
come in through the middle of the area under the sink??? It's a
split level house, but I don't know what part of the basement is under
the kitchen. I told her to leave both hot and cold running a
trickle, and to make sure they don't shut themselves off. I've had
that happen.

She's supposed to call me back with the make and model of a
radiator-style room heater that is so complicated she can't figure out
how to turn it on. I'm hoping the instructions are online. A timer,
two modes, etc. she's not good at stuff like this she says.

I told her to boil water to raise the humidity. Her stove works fine,
so why is the gas pressure low at the furnace?

Should I volunteer to go over there? I'm waiting for a phone call
about tomorrow at 7:30am but that should be soon.

On Tuesday, January 19, 2016 at 7:13:45 PM UTC-6, Micky wrote:

Should I volunteer to go over there? I'm waiting for a phone call
about tomorrow at 7:30am but that should be soon.

....get over there, she is being scammed. Bad igniter or clogged condensate...
I had a cracked solder joint on the fan relay and added a bit of copper wire to the circuit board. That was about 3 yrs ago...

On Tuesday, January 19, 2016 at 8:13:45 PM UTC-5, Micky wrote:
A friend calls me just now. She has gas heat, forced air, and the
furnace is broken. The repairman comes but not until 4. He says she
doesn't have enough gas pressure, and he did something that made it a
little higher, but he said she needs a part and he said the furnace
wasn't safe so he turned it off.

Furnaces have a pressure regulator, I think it's typically part of
the valve. Without a regulator, the burners would have varying gas
pressure and flame. And typically they are factory set, but field
adjustable, so that could be what the service tech adjusted, but
it still didn't work correctly. Or he could be incompetent or a
lying theif, who knows.

On 1/19/2016 8:34 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, January 19, 2016 at 8:13:45 PM UTC-5, Micky wrote:
A friend calls me just now. She has gas heat, forced air, and the
furnace is broken. The repairman comes but not until 4. He says she
doesn't have enough gas pressure, and he did something that made it a
little higher, but he said she needs a part and he said the furnace
wasn't safe so he turned it off.

Furnaces have a pressure regulator, I think it's typically part of
the valve. Without a regulator, the burners would have varying gas
pressure and flame. And typically they are factory set, but field
adjustable, so that could be what the service tech adjusted, but
it still didn't work correctly. Or he could be incompetent or a
lying theif, who knows.


If it truly is low gas pressure, you may wish to call
the utility company and their guys can check.

One time I did find a spider nest in the gas orifice,
which was cutting the BTU/hr in about half.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 17:34:41 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, January 19, 2016 at 8:13:45 PM UTC-5, Micky wrote:
A friend calls me just now. She has gas heat, forced air, and the
furnace is broken. The repairman comes but not until 4. He says she
doesn't have enough gas pressure, and he did something that made it a
little higher, but he said she needs a part and he said the furnace
wasn't safe so he turned it off.

Furnaces have a pressure regulator, I think it's typically part of
the valve. Without a regulator, the burners would have varying gas
pressure and flame. And typically they are factory set, but field
adjustable, so that could be what the service tech adjusted, but
it still didn't work correctly. Or he could be incompetent or a
lying theif, who knows.

Well at least you've explained what he's talking about. Thanks. I
think he's supposed to call tomorrow with the price.

I got interrupted by an important call, but I remember now that, for
reasons of her own, she wouldn't want me coming over tonight. So I
don't have to call her back.

On Tuesday, January 19, 2016 at 9:11:16 PM UTC-5, Micky wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 17:34:41 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, January 19, 2016 at 8:13:45 PM UTC-5, Micky wrote:
A friend calls me just now. She has gas heat, forced air, and the
furnace is broken. The repairman comes but not until 4. He says she
doesn't have enough gas pressure, and he did something that made it a
little higher, but he said she needs a part and he said the furnace
wasn't safe so he turned it off.

Furnaces have a pressure regulator, I think it's typically part of
the valve. Without a regulator, the burners would have varying gas
pressure and flame. And typically they are factory set, but field
adjustable, so that could be what the service tech adjusted, but
it still didn't work correctly. Or he could be incompetent or a
lying theif, who knows.

Well at least you've explained what he's talking about. Thanks. I
think he's supposed to call tomorrow with the price.

I got interrupted by an important call, but I remember now that, for
reasons of her own, she wouldn't want me coming over tonight.

Were you the reason she didn't want you coming over? ;-)

Calling the gas company is a sure way to get someone out. They don't want any liability issues.

On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 20:13:40 -0500, Micky
wrote:

A friend calls me just now. She has gas heat, forced air, and the
furnace is broken. The repairman comes but not until 4. He says she
doesn't have enough gas pressure, and he did something that made it a
little higher, but he said she needs a part and he said the furnace
wasn't safe so he turned it off. He also told her the furnace was so
old it wasn't worth replacing the part, but she says the furance is
only about 15 years old. IIUC he's supposed to call her tomorrow
when he learns more about the part. I don't know the furnace make
or model.

I've never heard of low gas pressure caused by a furnace or anything
in the house???

The heat has been broken for a few days, I gather, and it's 60 degrees
in the house and tonight is supposed to be down to 17 (maybe it was
yesterday it was supposed to be colder than that) and she's worried
the pipe to her kitchen sink will freeze. The sink is against a
window so does that mean the pipes are in the outer wall or might they
come in through the middle of the area under the sink??? It's a
split level house, but I don't know what part of the basement is under
the kitchen. I told her to leave both hot and cold running a
trickle, and to make sure they don't shut themselves off. I've had
that happen.

She's supposed to call me back with the make and model of a
radiator-style room heater that is so complicated she can't figure out
how to turn it on. I'm hoping the instructions are online. A timer,
two modes, etc. she's not good at stuff like this she says.

I told her to boil water to raise the humidity. Her stove works fine,
so why is the gas pressure low at the furnace?

Should I volunteer to go over there? I'm waiting for a phone call
about tomorrow at 7:30am but that should be soon.

That furnace guy sounds like an idiot. A PROFESSIONAL will have parts on
hand, and if not, they wont let someone stranded with no heat. They will
at least furnish some space heaters to use in the meantime.

Tell her to call ANOTHER furnace repair company.

As far as pipes freezing under a sink, LEAVE THE CABINET DOORS OPEN!

A gas furnace burner control unit for an older furnace is pretty
generic. Unlike the new Hi Efficiency computerized furnaces. Unless the
fire pot is cracked and emitting carbon monoxide, the entire control
should be replacable with a generic type control. Heck, they used to
convert old coal furnaces to gas, with a kit consisting of a control
unit and a burner. Those old furnaces were not all that complicated.

On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 04:37:48 -0600, wrote:

On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 20:13:40 -0500, Micky
wrote:

A friend calls me just now. She has gas heat, forced air, and the
furnace is broken. The repairman comes but not until 4. He says she
doesn't have enough gas pressure, and he did something that made it a
little higher, but he said she needs a part and he said the furnace
wasn't safe so he turned it off. He also told her the furnace was so
old it wasn't worth replacing the part, but she says the furance is
only about 15 years old. IIUC he's supposed to call her tomorrow
when he learns more about the part. I don't know the furnace make
or model.

I've never heard of low gas pressure caused by a furnace or anything
in the house???

The heat has been broken for a few days, I gather, and it's 60 degrees
in the house and tonight is supposed to be down to 17 (maybe it was
yesterday it was supposed to be colder than that) and she's worried
the pipe to her kitchen sink will freeze. The sink is against a
window so does that mean the pipes are in the outer wall or might they
come in through the middle of the area under the sink??? It's a
split level house, but I don't know what part of the basement is under
the kitchen. I told her to leave both hot and cold running a
trickle, and to make sure they don't shut themselves off. I've had
that happen.

She's supposed to call me back with the make and model of a
radiator-style room heater that is so complicated she can't figure out
how to turn it on. I'm hoping the instructions are online. A timer,
two modes, etc. she's not good at stuff like this she says.

I told her to boil water to raise the humidity. Her stove works fine,
so why is the gas pressure low at the furnace?

Should I volunteer to go over there? I'm waiting for a phone call
about tomorrow at 7:30am but that should be soon.

That furnace guy sounds like an idiot. A PROFESSIONAL will have parts on
hand, and if not, they wont let someone stranded with no heat. They will
at least furnish some space heaters to use in the meantime.

Good point.

Tell her to call ANOTHER furnace repair company.

As far as pipes freezing under a sink, LEAVE THE CABINET DOORS OPEN!

Good idea.

A gas furnace burner control unit for an older furnace is pretty
generic. Unlike the new Hi Efficiency computerized furnaces. Unless the
fire pot is cracked and emitting carbon monoxide, the entire control
should be replacable with a generic type control. Heck, they used to
convert old coal furnaces to gas, with a kit consisting of a control
unit and a burner. Those old furnaces were not all that complicated.

Thanks for the detailed answer. She thinks the furnace is only 15
years old. Should he have had a control for that on the truck? Should
he have asked her what kind of furnace she had before he left the
office?

He must be lying if he says she needs a new furnace after 15 years, I
think.

On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 at 7:55:47 AM UTC-5, Micky wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 04:37:48 -0600, wrote:

On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 20:13:40 -0500, Micky
wrote:

A friend calls me just now. She has gas heat, forced air, and the
furnace is broken. The repairman comes but not until 4. He says she
doesn't have enough gas pressure, and he did something that made it a
little higher, but he said she needs a part and he said the furnace
wasn't safe so he turned it off. He also told her the furnace was so
old it wasn't worth replacing the part, but she says the furance is
only about 15 years old. IIUC he's supposed to call her tomorrow
when he learns more about the part. I don't know the furnace make
or model.

I've never heard of low gas pressure caused by a furnace or anything
in the house???

The heat has been broken for a few days, I gather, and it's 60 degrees
in the house and tonight is supposed to be down to 17 (maybe it was
yesterday it was supposed to be colder than that) and she's worried
the pipe to her kitchen sink will freeze. The sink is against a
window so does that mean the pipes are in the outer wall or might they
come in through the middle of the area under the sink??? It's a
split level house, but I don't know what part of the basement is under
the kitchen. I told her to leave both hot and cold running a
trickle, and to make sure they don't shut themselves off. I've had
that happen.

She's supposed to call me back with the make and model of a
radiator-style room heater that is so complicated she can't figure out
how to turn it on. I'm hoping the instructions are online. A timer,
two modes, etc. she's not good at stuff like this she says.

I told her to boil water to raise the humidity. Her stove works fine,
so why is the gas pressure low at the furnace?

Should I volunteer to go over there? I'm waiting for a phone call
about tomorrow at 7:30am but that should be soon.

That furnace guy sounds like an idiot. A PROFESSIONAL will have parts on
hand, and if not, they wont let someone stranded with no heat. They will
at least furnish some space heaters to use in the meantime.

Good point.

Tell her to call ANOTHER furnace repair company.

As far as pipes freezing under a sink, LEAVE THE CABINET DOORS OPEN!

Good idea.

A gas furnace burner control unit for an older furnace is pretty
generic. Unlike the new Hi Efficiency computerized furnaces. Unless the
fire pot is cracked and emitting carbon monoxide, the entire control
should be replacable with a generic type control. Heck, they used to
convert old coal furnaces to gas, with a kit consisting of a control
unit and a burner. Those old furnaces were not all that complicated.

Thanks for the detailed answer. She thinks the furnace is only 15
years old. Should he have had a control for that on the truck? Should
he have asked her what kind of furnace she had before he left the
office?

He must be lying if he says she needs a new furnace after 15 years, I
think.

Maybe yes and maybe no. People here regularly report that modern
furnaces don't last nearly as long as long as
old ones, so I don't think 15 years is all that unusual. The
furnace tech saw the furnace, what condition all of it is in,
he should know the typical lifespan, failures, etc. Plus
your friend can't even figure out how to turn on an electric
space heater, so who knows if she really knows how old the
furnace is.

She should nail down a price and get a written quote
for what this repair is going to cost in total. And if she
has doubts, she can call in another company for another opinion.
I know the last part is not so practical when it's cold and
the furnace is kaput. But all our speculating here isn't
going to solve it either.

Well, she probably needs more fiber in her diet.
Fiber tends to give one gas.

In ,
Micky typed:
A friend calls me just now. She has gas heat, forced air, and the
furnace is broken. The repairman comes but not until 4. He says she
doesn't have enough gas pressure, and he did something that made it a
little higher, but he said she needs a part and he said the furnace
wasn't safe so he turned it off. He also told her the furnace was so
old it wasn't worth replacing the part, but she says the furance is
only about 15 years old. IIUC he's supposed to call her tomorrow
when he learns more about the part. I don't know the furnace make
or model.

I've never heard of low gas pressure caused by a furnace or anything
in the house???

The heat has been broken for a few days, I gather, and it's 60 degrees
in the house and tonight is supposed to be down to 17 (maybe it was
yesterday it was supposed to be colder than that) and she's worried
the pipe to her kitchen sink will freeze. The sink is against a
window so does that mean the pipes are in the outer wall or might they
come in through the middle of the area under the sink??? It's a
split level house, but I don't know what part of the basement is under
the kitchen. I told her to leave both hot and cold running a
trickle, and to make sure they don't shut themselves off. I've had
that happen.

She's supposed to call me back with the make and model of a
radiator-style room heater that is so complicated she can't figure out
how to turn it on. I'm hoping the instructions are online. A timer,
two modes, etc. she's not good at stuff like this she says.

I told her to boil water to raise the humidity. Her stove works fine,
so why is the gas pressure low at the furnace?

Should I volunteer to go over there? I'm waiting for a phone call
about tomorrow at 7:30am but that should be soon.

It is now "tomorrow" so you probably figured it out already.

About the freezing, she should keep the sink cabinet doors open as was
suggested. And since she has a gas stove she can turn a burner on in the
stove to keep the kitchen heated overnight or whenever. Same maybe for the
rest of the house.

In my area, I can call the utility company (PSE&G in my area -- New Jersey)
and they will come out and check out a non-working heater for free.. They
diagnose the problem, let the customer know what it would cost for them to
do the repair, and if the customer decides not to have them do the repair
there is no charge for the visit. They also are unbiased technicians who
have no interest or incentive in up-selling the customer on a new heater
etc. Check with her utility company and see how they operate. If it is the
same as my utility company, have her call them to come out and check the
heater due to "no heat".

Let us know what the final outcome is.

DerbyDad03 posted for all of us...



On Tuesday, January 19, 2016 at 9:11:16 PM UTC-5, Micky wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 17:34:41 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, January 19, 2016 at 8:13:45 PM UTC-5, Micky wrote:
A friend calls me just now. She has gas heat, forced air, and the
furnace is broken. The repairman comes but not until 4. He says she
doesn't have enough gas pressure, and he did something that made it a
little higher, but he said she needs a part and he said the furnace
wasn't safe so he turned it off.

Furnaces have a pressure regulator, I think it's typically part of
the valve. Without a regulator, the burners would have varying gas
pressure and flame. And typically they are factory set, but field
adjustable, so that could be what the service tech adjusted, but
it still didn't work correctly. Or he could be incompetent or a
lying theif, who knows.

Well at least you've explained what he's talking about. Thanks. I
think he's supposed to call tomorrow with the price.

I got interrupted by an important call, but I remember now that, for
reasons of her own, she wouldn't want me coming over tonight.

Were you the reason she didn't want you coming over? ;-)

+1

--
Tekkie

Natural gas or Butane/liquid gas???

"Micky" wrote in message ...

A friend calls me just now. She has gas heat, forced air, and the
furnace is broken. The repairman comes but not until 4. He says she
doesn't have enough gas pressure, and he did something that made it a
little higher, but he said she needs a part and he said the furnace
wasn't safe so he turned it off. He also told her the furnace was so
old it wasn't worth replacing the part, but she says the furance is
only about 15 years old. IIUC he's supposed to call her tomorrow
when he learns more about the part. I don't know the furnace make
or model.

I've never heard of low gas pressure caused by a furnace or anything
in the house???

The heat has been broken for a few days, I gather, and it's 60 degrees
in the house and tonight is supposed to be down to 17 (maybe it was
yesterday it was supposed to be colder than that) and she's worried
the pipe to her kitchen sink will freeze. The sink is against a
window so does that mean the pipes are in the outer wall or might they
come in through the middle of the area under the sink??? It's a
split level house, but I don't know what part of the basement is under
the kitchen. I told her to leave both hot and cold running a
trickle, and to make sure they don't shut themselves off. I've had
that happen.

She's supposed to call me back with the make and model of a
radiator-style room heater that is so complicated she can't figure out
how to turn it on. I'm hoping the instructions are online. A timer,
two modes, etc. she's not good at stuff like this she says.

I told her to boil water to raise the humidity. Her stove works fine,
so why is the gas pressure low at the furnace?

Should I volunteer to go over there? I'm waiting for a phone call
about tomorrow at 7:30am but that should be soon.

On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 05:22:47 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 at 7:55:47 AM UTC-5, Micky wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 04:37:48 -0600, wrote:

On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 20:13:40 -0500, Micky
wrote:

A friend calls me just now. She has gas heat, forced air, and the
furnace is broken. The repairman comes but not until 4. He says she
doesn't have enough gas pressure, and he did something that made it a
little higher, but he said she needs a part and he said the furnace
wasn't safe so he turned it off. He also told her the furnace was so
old it wasn't worth replacing the part, but she says the furance is
only about 15 years old. IIUC he's supposed to call her tomorrow
when he learns more about the part. I don't know the furnace make
or model.

I've never heard of low gas pressure caused by a furnace or anything
in the house???

The heat has been broken for a few days, I gather, and it's 60 degrees
in the house and tonight is supposed to be down to 17 (maybe it was
yesterday it was supposed to be colder than that) and she's worried
the pipe to her kitchen sink will freeze. The sink is against a
window so does that mean the pipes are in the outer wall or might they
come in through the middle of the area under the sink??? It's a
split level house, but I don't know what part of the basement is under
the kitchen. I told her to leave both hot and cold running a
trickle, and to make sure they don't shut themselves off. I've had
that happen.

She's supposed to call me back with the make and model of a
radiator-style room heater that is so complicated she can't figure out
how to turn it on. I'm hoping the instructions are online. A timer,
two modes, etc. she's not good at stuff like this she says.

I told her to boil water to raise the humidity. Her stove works fine,
so why is the gas pressure low at the furnace?

Should I volunteer to go over there? I'm waiting for a phone call
about tomorrow at 7:30am but that should be soon.

That furnace guy sounds like an idiot. A PROFESSIONAL will have parts on
hand, and if not, they wont let someone stranded with no heat. They will
at least furnish some space heaters to use in the meantime.

Good point.

Tell her to call ANOTHER furnace repair company.

As far as pipes freezing under a sink, LEAVE THE CABINET DOORS OPEN!

Good idea.

A gas furnace burner control unit for an older furnace is pretty
generic. Unlike the new Hi Efficiency computerized furnaces. Unless the
fire pot is cracked and emitting carbon monoxide, the entire control
should be replacable with a generic type control. Heck, they used to
convert old coal furnaces to gas, with a kit consisting of a control
unit and a burner. Those old furnaces were not all that complicated.

Thanks for the detailed answer. She thinks the furnace is only 15
years old. Should he have had a control for that on the truck? Should
he have asked her what kind of furnace she had before he left the
office?

He must be lying if he says she needs a new furnace after 15 years, I
think.

Maybe yes and maybe no. People here regularly report that modern
furnaces don't last nearly as long as long as
old ones, so I don't think 15 years is all that unusual. The
furnace tech saw the furnace, what condition all of it is in,
he should know the typical lifespan, failures, etc. Plus
your friend can't even figure out how to turn on an electric
space heater, so who knows if she really knows how old the
furnace is.

She should nail down a price and get a written quote
for what this repair is going to cost in total. And if she
has doubts, she can call in another company for another opinion.
I know the last part is not so practical when it's cold and
the furnace is kaput. But all our speculating here isn't
going to solve it either.

I called this morning and offered her a space heater, so I went over
around 1 and checked out things. Only the sink pipes and the garden
faucets were at any risk of freezing, and she'd opened the door to t
he sink cabinet and had the water dribbling out.

The furnace company said the part might have to come from out of town,
and they might noit be back until Friday, but while I was having lunch
there, they called and said he'd be there in 20 minutes, and though I
didn't have a watch, it seemed like about 20 minutes.

It only took him 5 or 10 minutes to replace the valve/pressure
regulator, using some black dope, and another 5 or 10 minutes to
answer a couple questions. She reminded the guy that on the previous
trip a different guy replaced the main gas valve, and he said it was
already included in the $425. She didnt' flinch or complain at all,
but thanked him, and wrote him a check, and we left.

He said the normal life-span of a gas furnace was 20 years.

The make of furnace is on the tip of my tongue, but I can't remember.

Thanks for all the help.

On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 07:55:41 -0500, Micky
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 04:37:48 -0600, wrote:

On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 20:13:40 -0500, Micky
wrote:

A friend calls me just now. She has gas heat, forced air, and the
furnace is broken. The repairman comes but not until 4. He says she
doesn't have enough gas pressure, and he did something that made it a
little higher, but he said she needs a part and he said the furnace
wasn't safe so he turned it off. He also told her the furnace was so
old it wasn't worth replacing the part, but she says the furance is
only about 15 years old. IIUC he's supposed to call her tomorrow
when he learns more about the part. I don't know the furnace make
or model.

I've never heard of low gas pressure caused by a furnace or anything
in the house???

The heat has been broken for a few days, I gather, and it's 60 degrees
in the house and tonight is supposed to be down to 17 (maybe it was
yesterday it was supposed to be colder than that) and she's worried
the pipe to her kitchen sink will freeze. The sink is against a
window so does that mean the pipes are in the outer wall or might they
come in through the middle of the area under the sink??? It's a
split level house, but I don't know what part of the basement is under
the kitchen. I told her to leave both hot and cold running a
trickle, and to make sure they don't shut themselves off. I've had
that happen.

She's supposed to call me back with the make and model of a
radiator-style room heater that is so complicated she can't figure out
how to turn it on. I'm hoping the instructions are online. A timer,
two modes, etc. she's not good at stuff like this she says.

I told her to boil water to raise the humidity. Her stove works fine,
so why is the gas pressure low at the furnace?

Should I volunteer to go over there? I'm waiting for a phone call
about tomorrow at 7:30am but that should be soon.

That furnace guy sounds like an idiot. A PROFESSIONAL will have parts on
hand, and if not, they wont let someone stranded with no heat. They will
at least furnish some space heaters to use in the meantime.

Good point.

Tell her to call ANOTHER furnace repair company.

As far as pipes freezing under a sink, LEAVE THE CABINET DOORS OPEN!

Good idea.

A gas furnace burner control unit for an older furnace is pretty
generic. Unlike the new Hi Efficiency computerized furnaces. Unless the
fire pot is cracked and emitting carbon monoxide, the entire control
should be replacable with a generic type control. Heck, they used to
convert old coal furnaces to gas, with a kit consisting of a control
unit and a burner. Those old furnaces were not all that complicated.

Thanks for the detailed answer. She thinks the furnace is only 15
years old. Should he have had a control for that on the truck? Should
he have asked her what kind of furnace she had before he left the
office?

He must be lying if he says she needs a new furnace after 15 years, I
think.
There is a better chance she needs a new furnace if the old one is
"only" 15 years old than if it was 30., and the replacement put in
today is more likely to need replacement in less than 15 years than
the current one is.

A 15 year old "generic" furnace should still be economical to repair -
if it was a "fancy" high end furnace it may not be.

Buying a current era high efficiency furnace in parts, not including
the sheet metal housing, is likely close to $25,000, compared to say,
$6000 for a new furnace.

A "generic" White Rogers gas valve in the states should be around $100
Likely closer to $200 in Canada. and should be in stock at just about
any decent HVAC supply.

Unless there is a lot more wrong with the furnace it is still "worth
fixing"

On 1/19/2016 9:11 PM, Micky wrote:

I got interrupted by an important call, but I remember now that, for
reasons of her own, she wouldn't want me coming over tonight. So I
don't have to call her back.


This morning, dead as I was, I went to service
two furnace. Believe me when I say, I'd rather
been back in the funeral home, laying in a
warm, well lit casket. This life after death
bit is wearing on me.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 1/20/2016 8:22 AM, trader_4 wrote:
Maybe yes and maybe no. People here regularly report that modern
furnaces don't last nearly as long as long as
old ones, so I don't think 15 years is all that unusual. The
furnace tech saw the furnace, what condition all of it is in,
he should know the typical lifespan, failures, etc. Plus
your friend can't even figure out how to turn on an electric
space heater, so who knows if she really knows how old the
furnace is.

She should nail down a price and get a written quote
for what this repair is going to cost in total. And if she
has doubts, she can call in another company for another opinion.
I know the last part is not so practical when it's cold and
the furnace is kaput. But all our speculating here isn't
going to solve it either.


This is totally the wrong time of year to
buy a furnace, the supply and demand and
duress thing comes into action.

Hope the old one can function for a while
longer.

I'm dead, and I approved this message.
--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 14:21:31 -0800, "Tony944" wrote:

Natural gas or Butane/liquid gas???

In North America it's either Natural gas or Propane.

You can call it as you want however it is Butane
Butane is used for domestic heating and cooking
same goes for bots and campers and not the Propane.
Because of safety feature, Butane is much lower pressure
and higher density than the Propane.

wrote in message ...

On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 14:21:31 -0800, "Tony944" wrote:

Natural gas or Butane/liquid gas???

In North America it's either Natural gas or Propane.

On Thursday, January 21, 2016 at 2:19:00 PM UTC-5, Tony944 wrote:
You can call it as you want however it is Butane
Butane is used for domestic heating and cooking
same goes for bots and campers and not the Propane.
Because of safety feature, Butane is much lower pressure
and higher density than the Propane.


How is it that one poster can be so consistently wrong on so
many very basic things and still be alive?

On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 11:18:51 -0800, "Tony944" wrote:

You can call it as you want however it is Butane
Butane is used for domestic heating and cooking
same goes for bots and campers and not the Propane.
Because of safety feature, Butane is much lower pressure
and higher density than the Propane.

wrote in message ...

On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 14:21:31 -0800, "Tony944" wrote:

Natural gas or Butane/liquid gas???

In North America it's either Natural gas or Propane.

Butane is used in Europe, and some camp stoves etc use butane. It is
NOT the same as Propane.

Although propane is more popular, butane continues to be used as a
fuel source. It is used as a fuel in stoves, cigarette lighters and
even in aerosol sprays as a propellant. Besides, butane is cheaper
than propane, but comparatively, it is more difficult to use, so it is
not very commonly available and not many gadgets, devices are designed
to be used with butane as fuel source.

But you should know that butane is more efficient than propane when
used as fuel. If same volume of butane and propane is burned at
temperature above freezing, butane will end up providing 12% more
energy than propane. Thus, butane can be the preferred choice when it
is available in adequate amounts since it is energy-efficient and also
has an advantage of cheaper price.

Unlike butane, propane is available more easily in small portable
tanks and is used widely for heating houses. It is used as a fuel in
gas barbeques, lanterns and camping stoves. Automobiles run on
liquefied petroleum gas or LPG which is made by mixing propane with
other fuels like butylene, propylene or butane.

When the fuel needs to be stored for a long time, propane is a better
choice than butane. It stores well in variable weather conditions and
even below freezing temperature will not affect the storage conditions
of propane because of its propetries. When people need to go camping,
hiking or mountain climbing, especially in cold weather, propane is
preferred over butane as a fuel for cooking. Since propane gas is
odorless, leaks are harder to detect. For this reason, ethanethiol is
mixed with propane so that leaks can be easily detected.

Butane, C4H10, boils at 30.2F,
Propane, C3H8. boils at -43.6F.

BIG difference.

On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 21:29:51 -0500, wrote:

When the fuel needs to be stored for a long time, propane is a better
choice than butane. It stores well in variable weather conditions and
even below freezing temperature will not affect the storage conditions
of propane because of its propetries. When people need to go camping,
hiking or mountain climbing, especially in cold weather, propane is
preferred over butane as a fuel for cooking. Since propane gas is

I know all too well that a butane cigarette lighter will not light when
it's very cold. If I leave a lighter in my car in cold weather I have to
hold it in my hand for several minutes, or by a car's heater output
before that lighter will light. The flint will throw sparks, but no
flame.

Another thing about those lighters. NEVER let one fall down the defrost
vent opening on the dashboard. When the heater gets hot enough, the
lighters literally explode. More than once I was driving and suddenly
there's a loud bang, and chunks of plastic are flying all over the car.
Talk about having a panic attack. Especially the first time it happened.
There was never any flame, but it's still frightening. Fortunatly it
never happened when I was in heavy traffic. Could have caused an
accident.

I wont happen again, I fastened a piece of 1/4" hardware cloth (screen)
over those vents. Just embedded the screen in silicone caulk around the
edge of the vent. It's not just the exploding lighters, but pens,
pencils and all sorts of other stuff would fall down those vents. I
found that after one exploding lighter blew the hose off the vent under
the dash.

I always wondered why they dont put some sort of screen on those vents
at the factory.

On Friday, January 22, 2016 at 3:52:20 AM UTC-6, wrote:

I wont happen again...

....this is a good thing! (Š™ãƒ®Š™)

On Friday, January 22, 2016 at 4:52:20 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 21:29:51 -0500, wrote:

When the fuel needs to be stored for a long time, propane is a better
choice than butane. It stores well in variable weather conditions and
even below freezing temperature will not affect the storage conditions
of propane because of its propetries. When people need to go camping,
hiking or mountain climbing, especially in cold weather, propane is
preferred over butane as a fuel for cooking. Since propane gas is

I know all too well that a butane cigarette lighter will not light when
it's very cold. If I leave a lighter in my car in cold weather I have to
hold it in my hand for several minutes, or by a car's heater output
before that lighter will light. The flint will throw sparks, but no
flame.

Another thing about those lighters. NEVER let one fall down the defrost
vent opening on the dashboard. When the heater gets hot enough, the
lighters literally explode. More than once I was driving and suddenly
there's a loud bang, and chunks of plastic are flying all over the car.
Talk about having a panic attack. Especially the first time it happened.
There was never any flame, but it's still frightening. Fortunatly it
never happened when I was in heavy traffic. Could have caused an
accident.

I wont happen again, I fastened a piece of 1/4" hardware cloth (screen)
over those vents. Just embedded the screen in silicone caulk around the
edge of the vent. It's not just the exploding lighters, but pens,
pencils and all sorts of other stuff would fall down those vents. I
found that after one exploding lighter blew the hose off the vent under
the dash.

I always wondered why they dont put some sort of screen on those vents
at the factory.

While on the subject of vents and screens, most of the condensing
furnaces around here have either no screen on the intake and exhaust
pipes or at most a very rough one, eg 1/2" openings. I have a Rheem
and the install manual specifically says not to place any kind of
screen on the openings. I think they are probably worried about
them freezing up, icing over. But you would think that it would
raise all kinds of problems, eg mice or similar deciding to take
up residence in the pipes or worse, the furnace during summer.

On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 18:05:18 -0500, wrote:


He must be lying if he says she needs a new furnace after 15 years, I
think.
There is a better chance she needs a new furnace if the old one is
"only" 15 years old than if it was 30., and the replacement put in
today is more likely to need replacement in less than 15 years than
the current one is.

That is so depressing.

A 15 year old "generic" furnace should still be economical to repair -
if it was a "fancy" high end furnace it may not be.

Buying a current era high efficiency furnace in parts, not including
the sheet metal housing, is likely close to $25,000, compared to say,
$6000 for a new furnace.

A "generic" White Rogers gas valve in the states should be around $100
Likely closer to $200 in Canada. and should be in stock at just about
any decent HVAC supply.

She ended up paying $425 for replacing the valve/pressure regulator
and the main valve (just a simple rotating on/off). He had to make
two trips but I'm not sure whose fault that is.

Unless there is a lot more wrong with the furnace it is still "worth
fixing"

It started right up at that point with several beautiful blue flames.

On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 at 4:43:27 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 20:13:40 -0500, Micky
wrote:

A friend calls me just now. She has gas heat, forced air, and the
furnace is broken. The repairman comes but not until 4. He says she
doesn't have enough gas pressure, and he did something that made it a
little higher, but he said she needs a part and he said the furnace
wasn't safe so he turned it off. He also told her the furnace was so
old it wasn't worth replacing the part, but she says the furance is
only about 15 years old. IIUC he's supposed to call her tomorrow
when he learns more about the part. I don't know the furnace make
or model.

I've never heard of low gas pressure caused by a furnace or anything
in the house???

The heat has been broken for a few days, I gather, and it's 60 degrees
in the house and tonight is supposed to be down to 17 (maybe it was
yesterday it was supposed to be colder than that) and she's worried
the pipe to her kitchen sink will freeze. The sink is against a
window so does that mean the pipes are in the outer wall or might they
come in through the middle of the area under the sink??? It's a
split level house, but I don't know what part of the basement is under
the kitchen. I told her to leave both hot and cold running a
trickle, and to make sure they don't shut themselves off. I've had
that happen.

She's supposed to call me back with the make and model of a
radiator-style room heater that is so complicated she can't figure out
how to turn it on. I'm hoping the instructions are online. A timer,
two modes, etc. she's not good at stuff like this she says.

I told her to boil water to raise the humidity. Her stove works fine,
so why is the gas pressure low at the furnace?

Should I volunteer to go over there? I'm waiting for a phone call
about tomorrow at 7:30am but that should be soon.

That furnace guy sounds like an idiot. A PROFESSIONAL will have parts on
hand, and if not, they wont let someone stranded with no heat. They will
at least furnish some space heaters to use in the meantime.

Tell her to call ANOTHER furnace repair company.

As far as pipes freezing under a sink, LEAVE THE CABINET DOORS OPEN!

A gas furnace burner control unit for an older furnace is pretty
generic. Unlike the new Hi Efficiency computerized furnaces. Unless the
fire pot is cracked and emitting carbon monoxide, the entire control
should be replacable with a generic type control. Heck, they used to
convert old coal furnaces to gas, with a kit consisting of a control
unit and a burner. Those old furnaces were not all that complicated.

Are you referring to the old octopus style furnace in a basement that had no blower and large diameter ducts coming out the top of the furnace relying on convection to carry the heated air into the upper stories? Those old furnaces are often called beasts and I've serviced a few that were converted about the time I was born back in the middle of the last century. It used to crack me up to see there was still a partially filled coal bin in some basements or even a coal chute. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Beast Monster

On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 at 5:26:53 PM UTC-6, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 1/19/2016 9:11 PM, Micky wrote:

I got interrupted by an important call, but I remember now that, for
reasons of her own, she wouldn't want me coming over tonight. So I
don't have to call her back.


This morning, dead as I was, I went to service
two furnace. Believe me when I say, I'd rather
been back in the funeral home, laying in a
warm, well lit casket. This life after death
bit is wearing on me.
--
.
I told my brother that you were dead too. He said to look him up there in the warm place. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Warm Monster

On 1/23/2016 2:54 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 at 5:26:53 PM UTC-6, Stormin Mormon wrote:
This morning, dead as I was, I went to service
two furnace. Believe me when I say, I'd rather
been back in the funeral home, laying in a
warm, well lit casket. This life after death
bit is wearing on me.
--
.
I told my brother that you were dead too. He said to look him up there in the warm place. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Warm Monster


How is that old devil?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Saturday, January 23, 2016 at 7:24:26 AM UTC-6, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 1/23/2016 2:54 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 at 5:26:53 PM UTC-6, Stormin Mormon wrote:
This morning, dead as I was, I went to service
two furnace. Believe me when I say, I'd rather
been back in the funeral home, laying in a
warm, well lit casket. This life after death
bit is wearing on me.
--
.
I told my brother that you were dead too. He said to look him up there in the warm place. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Warm Monster

How is that old devil?
--
.
He's taking up my slack in the business of evil. He keeps my pitchfork from rusting. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Evil Monster

On 1/22/2016 8:44 AM, trader_4 wrote:

While on the subject of vents and screens, most of the condensing
furnaces around here have either no screen on the intake and exhaust
pipes or at most a very rough one, eg 1/2" openings. I have a Rheem
and the install manual specifically says not to place any kind of
screen on the openings. I think they are probably worried about
them freezing up, icing over. But you would think that it would
raise all kinds of problems, eg mice or similar deciding to take
up residence in the pipes or worse, the furnace during summer.


I got a no heat call, about three years ago. The
mousie had got in the exhaust, and chewed some
wires. The stench was extreme. The wires were
relatively easy to repair.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 1/23/2016 2:45 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:

Are you referring to the old octopus style furnace
in a basement that had no blower and large diameter
ducts coming out the top of the furnace relying on
convection to carry the heated air into the upper
stories? Those old furnaces are often called beasts
and I've serviced a few that were converted about
the time I was born back in the middle of the last
century. It used to crack me up to see there was
still a partially filled coal bin in some basements
or even a coal chute. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Beast Monster


I don't remember the numbers, but I helped take out
one of those. Had probably 500 pounds of sand on top,
which all had to come out by dust pan, bucket, and
carried up the stairs. We did a LOT of sheet metal
work on that job. The customer's gas bill dropped a
LOT, enough to pay for the furnace quite rapidly.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Saturday, January 23, 2016 at 9:04:09 AM UTC-6, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I don't remember the numbers, but I helped take out
one of those. Had probably 500 pounds of sand on top,
which all had to come out by dust pan, bucket, and
carried up the stairs. We did a LOT of sheet metal
work on that job. The customer's gas bill dropped a
LOT, enough to pay for the furnace quite rapidly.

Did you wear an approved respirator for that job? (Š™_—Ž)

On 1/23/2016 8:29 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Saturday, January 23, 2016 at 7:24:26 AM UTC-6, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I told my brother that you were dead too. He said to look him up there in the warm place. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Warm Monster

How is that old devil?
--
.
He's taking up my slack in the business of evil. He keeps my pitchfork from rusting. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Evil Monster


Well, curse his little heart. That is so evil
of him. Please send Dufas my worst regards.
Paraphrasing Devil Spock, live short and be
pennyless.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

posted for all of us...



On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 21:29:51 -0500, wrote:

When the fuel needs to be stored for a long time, propane is a better
choice than butane. It stores well in variable weather conditions and
even below freezing temperature will not affect the storage conditions
of propane because of its propetries. When people need to go camping,
hiking or mountain climbing, especially in cold weather, propane is
preferred over butane as a fuel for cooking. Since propane gas is

I know all too well that a butane cigarette lighter will not light when
it's very cold. If I leave a lighter in my car in cold weather I have to
hold it in my hand for several minutes, or by a car's heater output
before that lighter will light. The flint will throw sparks, but no
flame.

Another thing about those lighters. NEVER let one fall down the defrost
vent opening on the dashboard. When the heater gets hot enough, the
lighters literally explode. More than once I was driving and suddenly
there's a loud bang, and chunks of plastic are flying all over the car.
Talk about having a panic attack. Especially the first time it happened.
There was never any flame, but it's still frightening. Fortunatly it
never happened when I was in heavy traffic. Could have caused an
accident.

I wont happen again, I fastened a piece of 1/4" hardware cloth (screen)
over those vents. Just embedded the screen in silicone caulk around the
edge of the vent. It's not just the exploding lighters, but pens,
pencils and all sorts of other stuff would fall down those vents. I
found that after one exploding lighter blew the hose off the vent under
the dash.

I always wondered why they dont put some sort of screen on those vents
at the factory.

I call BS on Homo Gay

--
Tekkie