I have replaced my doorbell button five times in a year. It is a wired
one, but the light keeps going out. It has a diode in it. The
Westminster chimes sound great.

The third time the light went out, I hired an electrician, and it still
would not light two months later.

The electrician told me to get a doorbell without the little wire inside
the doorbell, called a diode.

Can someone please educate me. From what I am finding out, all wired
doorbells must have a diode or else the doorbell won't chime.

If I really don't need a diode, for a wired doorbell, can someone tell
me that brand and model number of the unit? I am not interested in a
battery operated unit, but surely, there must be a doorbell button out
there that just keeps on working.

This cannot be rocket science.
The electrician I had moved, so I need to start all over again.

Many thanks!

Kadee

Kate wrote:
I have replaced my doorbell button five times in a year. It is a wired
one, but the light keeps going out. It has a diode in it. The
Westminster chimes sound great.

The third time the light went out, I hired an electrician, and it still
would not light two months later.

The electrician told me to get a doorbell without the little wire inside
the doorbell, called a diode.

Can someone please educate me. From what I am finding out, all wired
doorbells must have a diode or else the doorbell won't chime.

If I really don't need a diode, for a wired doorbell, can someone tell
me that brand and model number of the unit? I am not interested in a
battery operated unit, but surely, there must be a doorbell button out
there that just keeps on working.

This cannot be rocket science.
The electrician I had moved, so I need to start all over again.

Many thanks!

Kadee

I think your doorbell transformer output voltage is too high. Measure
the output voltage. It should be near 24V AC typical. If it is
noticeably higher you need to replace it or take a measure to drop the
voltage using voltage drop resistor calculated per Ohm's law and
consider using LED. Was it working good and suddenly it is burning
bulbs? Or see if you can find higher voltage rated lamp like 32V.

Kate wrote:
I have replaced my doorbell button five times in a year. It is a wired
one, but the light keeps going out. It has a diode in it. The
Westminster chimes sound great.

The third time the light went out, I hired an electrician, and it still
would not light two months later.

The electrician told me to get a doorbell without the little wire inside
the doorbell, called a diode.

Can someone please educate me. From what I am finding out, all wired
doorbells must have a diode or else the doorbell won't chime.

If I really don't need a diode, for a wired doorbell, can someone tell
me that brand and model number of the unit? I am not interested in a
battery operated unit, but surely, there must be a doorbell button out
there that just keeps on working.

This cannot be rocket science.
The electrician I had moved, so I need to start all over again.

Many thanks!

Kadee

Door bell operates at 10V, 16V(typical) or even 24V AC. Did you replace
a chime or button? Look at the tranformer voltage rating and voltage
required for the chime. Are they different? There is even a transformer
with tri-voltage output. My guess is you have mismatched doorbell
system. Ours are 5 notes playing Westminster chime by a rotary gong
running on 24V AC. I never replaced bulb in years.

"Kate" wrote in message ...

I have replaced my doorbell button five times in a year. It is a wired
one, but the light keeps going out. It has a diode in it. The
Westminster chimes sound great.

The third time the light went out, I hired an electrician, and it still
would not light two months later.

The electrician told me to get a doorbell without the little wire inside
the doorbell, called a diode.

Can someone please educate me. From what I am finding out, all wired
doorbells must have a diode or else the doorbell won't chime.

If I really don't need a diode, for a wired doorbell, can someone tell
me that brand and model number of the unit? I am not interested in a
battery operated unit, but surely, there must be a doorbell button out
there that just keeps on working.

This cannot be rocket science.
The electrician I had moved, so I need to start all over again.

Many thanks!

Karee

I have replace more then on push button but I never came across
door push button with diode in inside, if there is diode it would be
inside bell enclosure itself.

On Sat, 16 Jan 2016 20:27:08 -0800, Kate wrote:

I have replaced my doorbell button five times in a year. It is a wired
one, but the light keeps going out. It has a diode in it. The
Westminster chimes sound great.

The third time the light went out, I hired an electrician, and it still
would not light two months later.

The electrician told me to get a doorbell without the little wire inside
the doorbell, called a diode.

Can someone please educate me. From what I am finding out, all wired
doorbells must have a diode or else the doorbell won't chime.

If I really don't need a diode, for a wired doorbell, can someone tell
me that brand and model number of the unit? I am not interested in a
battery operated unit, but surely, there must be a doorbell button out
there that just keeps on working.

This cannot be rocket science.
The electrician I had moved, so I need to start all over again.

Many thanks!

Kadee
You likely have the wrong transformer - providing too much voltage to
the lighted button. Measure the voltage - should be 12-16 volts - you
likely have a 24 volt transformer (made for thermostat/furnace control
instead of doorbell)

On 1/17/2016 12:24 AM, Tony944 wrote:


I have replace more then on push button but I never came across door
push button with diode in inside, if there is diode it would be inside
bell enclosure itself.

Except for the ones where it is on the outside.

On 1/16/2016 10:24 PM, Tony944 wrote:
I have replace more then on push button but I never came across door push
button with diode in inside, if there is diode it would be inside bell
enclosure itself.

It depends on the functionality provided by the diode.

A diode *shunting* the button allows (some) power to flow
through the button even when it is not pressed (assuming
typical AC drive for the doorbell circuit).

A simple 1 or 2 tone "bell" only needs -- and receives! -- power
while the button is pressed. The button completes the circuit to
the bell WHILE the button is pressed. As soon as the button is
released, the circuit is broken.

For a 1 tone bell, the chime/buzzer sounds while the button
is pressed.

For a 2 tone bell (ding.... DONG), the first tone is the result of
a solenoid pulling a striker to hit the first (DING) chime. The
second tone is a result of the striker being released and returning,
via a spring driven mechanism (to strike the DONG on the "back end"
of the striker).

For more complex mechanisms (and some electronic doorbells), power
needs to continue to flow through the button even AFTER it has
been released -- the bell mechanism can't "store" the electricity
that it needs. The diode allows "half" of the electricity to
flow all the time. This is enough for the mechanism to CONTINUE
operating.

The mechanism won't *start* its cycle/operation until it "sees"
the "full" electricity (which is only present when the diode
is SHORTED by the switch -- thereby allowing ALL the electricity
to flow to the bell mechanism).

The position of the bell mechanism, electrically, only allows it
to get power when the button is closed (or, bridged by that diode).
You have to route the wiring differently if you want power to
come to the bell unit all the time -- feeding the switch FROM
the bell unit (instead of feeding them in series with each other).

So, a diode in the bell unit in a traditionally wired circuit
can only *discard* half of the electricity presented to it.
If the (non-diode) button is "open" (not pressed), then there
is no electricity to discard; no electricity to operate!

On 1/16/2016 9:27 PM, Kate wrote:
I have replaced my doorbell button five times in a year. It is a wired one,
but the light keeps going out. It has a diode in it. The Westminster chimes
sound great.

Are they mechanical chimes or electronic chimes?

The third time the light went out, I hired an electrician, and it still would
not light two months later.

Do they operate even though the bulb is toast?

The electrician told me to get a doorbell without the little wire inside the
doorbell, called a diode.

Assuming he is competent, then he's determined that the chime unit
requires the diode to allow power to continue to flow into the
unit AFTER you have released the button.

The bulb doesn't care about whether or not the button is pressed or
not. It also doesn't care about the diode or the chime unit.

Sort of.

The bulb has to be sized (electrically) so that the power that it
draws from the circuit isn't high enough to let the chime unit
think the button is being pressed (when it isn't). A button that
requires lots of power effectively looks like a short circuit...
ACROSS the button (so, the button appears pressed).

The bulb DOES care about the open circuit voltage across the
button. This will be determined by the characteristics of
your chime unit (those will be printed ON the chime unit!)
and the transformer chosen to drive the circuit.

The diode subtly changes what the bulb "sees".

Your transformer delivers AC (Alternating Current) to the
circuit. (batteries are Direct Current) Think of these
as waves on the ocean -- they have peaks and troughs.
But, the *average* "water level" of the ocean is somewhere
between (halfway!) the peaks and the troughs.

The bulb (switch) "sees" the range from peak to trough
all the time -- while the button is not pressed. The size
of these peaks/troughs -- the range between them -- is set
by the transformer. E.g., a 24 volt transformer has a
range between peaks and troughs that is twice what the range
would be for a 12 volt transformer.

The diode alters this. It lets ONLY the peaks go through
it. So, the peaks BYPASS the light -- taking a shortcut
through the diode! Instead, the light bulb only "sees"
the troughs. As the troughs are just as LOW as the peaks
are HIGH, this means the light "sees" half of the "voltage"
that the transformer produces.

View this sideways:

Normal electricity from transformer:
/
(
\
\
)
/
/
(
\
\
)
/


Electricity that takes a shortcut through the diode:
|
|
\
)
/
|
|
|
\
)
/
|


Electricity that the lightbulb "sees":
/
(
\
|
|
|
/
(
\
|
|
|

Bad illustration, but hopefully, you can see that the difference
between the leftmost (trough) and rightmost (peak) seen by the
light is LESS than the difference between the trough and peak
delivered by the transformer.

WITHOUT THE DIODE, the light sees what the transformer delivers.
So, it operates at a higher voltage. If not designed for that,
it burns out faster.

Also, if the diode fails ("open"), a bulb ends up seeing twice
the normal voltage that it would have with the diode functioning
properly. (diodes have ratings just like every other component)

Can someone please educate me. From what I am finding out, all wired doorbells
must have a diode or else the doorbell won't chime.

See my response elsewhere this thread for a rough explanation.
Illustrations would be great, here, but too tedious to upload to
a hosting site, etc. (sorry)

If I really don't need a diode, for a wired doorbell, can someone tell me that
brand and model number of the unit? I am not interested in a battery operated
unit, but surely, there must be a doorbell button out there that just keeps on
working.

Again, the *button* appears to be working -- but not the light
(which, presumably, is only illuminated when the button is NOT
being pressed?)

This cannot be rocket science.
The electrician I had moved, so I need to start all over again.

It's relatively easy to create a modification to an existing button
to "fix" this problem. I've installed LEDs in the illuminated
"doorbell" buttons for the garage door opener (one inside the house,
the other inside the garage). They'll be there until long after
the opener gives up the ghost! :-/

Many thanks!

HTH

On Sunday, January 17, 2016 at 3:10:38 AM UTC-6, Don Y wrote:
On 1/16/2016 10:24 PM, Tony944 wrote:
I have replace more then on push button but I never came across door push
button with diode in inside, if there is diode it would be inside bell
enclosure itself.

It depends on the functionality provided by the diode.

A diode *shunting* the button allows (some) power to flow
through the button even when it is not pressed (assuming
typical AC drive for the doorbell circuit).

A simple 1 or 2 tone "bell" only needs -- and receives! -- power
while the button is pressed. The button completes the circuit to
the bell WHILE the button is pressed. As soon as the button is
released, the circuit is broken.

For a 1 tone bell, the chime/buzzer sounds while the button
is pressed.

For a 2 tone bell (ding.... DONG), the first tone is the result of
a solenoid pulling a striker to hit the first (DING) chime. The
second tone is a result of the striker being released and returning,
via a spring driven mechanism (to strike the DONG on the "back end"
of the striker).

For more complex mechanisms (and some electronic doorbells), power
needs to continue to flow through the button even AFTER it has
been released -- the bell mechanism can't "store" the electricity
that it needs. The diode allows "half" of the electricity to
flow all the time. This is enough for the mechanism to CONTINUE
operating.

The mechanism won't *start* its cycle/operation until it "sees"
the "full" electricity (which is only present when the diode
is SHORTED by the switch -- thereby allowing ALL the electricity
to flow to the bell mechanism).

The position of the bell mechanism, electrically, only allows it
to get power when the button is closed (or, bridged by that diode).
You have to route the wiring differently if you want power to
come to the bell unit all the time -- feeding the switch FROM
the bell unit (instead of feeding them in series with each other).

So, a diode in the bell unit in a traditionally wired circuit
can only *discard* half of the electricity presented to it.
If the (non-diode) button is "open" (not pressed), then there
is no electricity to discard; no electricity to operate!

Does she really need a back-story on ding-dongs...even if it *is* coming from an "expert ding-dong"? WTF man!

On 1/17/2016 9:37 AM, bob_villain wrote:

So, a diode in the bell unit in a traditionally wired circuit
can only *discard* half of the electricity presented to it.
If the (non-diode) button is "open" (not pressed), then there
is no electricity to discard; no electricity to operate!

Does she really need a back-story on ding-dongs...even if it *is* coming from an "expert ding-dong"? WTF man!


No, she does not. I, however, found it to be an excellent explanation
of why it is needed. I learned something today.

Thank you Don, for taking the time.

On 1/17/2016 8:46 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/17/2016 9:37 AM, bob_villain wrote:

So, a diode in the bell unit in a traditionally wired circuit
can only *discard* half of the electricity presented to it.
If the (non-diode) button is "open" (not pressed), then there
is no electricity to discard; no electricity to operate!

Does she really need a back-story on ding-dongs...even if it *is* coming from
an "expert ding-dong"? WTF man!

She said:
"Can someone please educate me. From what I am finding out, all wired
doorbells must have a diode or else the doorbell won't chime."
Perhaps Bob Bozo Twit can "educate her" less verbosely? Education requires
explanation. Clearly, the PAID, PROFESSIONAL electrician did not provide
an "education" -- might not even understand *why* the diode is there!

[Hint: *design* an electronic doorbell and you may learn a few practical
things!]

While she may not appreciate the details, I've offered a logical reason
that explains why a bulb can fail without a diode or when a diode fails
(leading to the bulb later "seeing" the full potential of the XFMR).

No, she does not. I, however, found it to be an excellent explanation of why
it is needed. I learned something today.

Goal is to learn something EVERY day! "Settling" for someone else's
conclusions leaves you eating *a* fish but never knowing how to catch
the next one!

Thank you Don, for taking the time.

"Don Y" wrote in message ...

On 1/16/2016 10:24 PM, Tony944 wrote:
I have replace more then on push button but I never came across door push
button with diode in inside, if there is diode it would be inside bell
enclosure itself.

It depends on the functionality provided by the diode.

A diode *shunting* the button allows (some) power to flow
through the button even when it is not pressed (assuming
typical AC drive for the doorbell circuit).

I need some explanation, you are saying that chimes/bells
have constant power at all times through diode when button
is not press and full power when button is press, I would love to see that
I am not saying that is not possible but I would like to see that.

A simple 1 or 2 tone "bell" only needs -- and receives! -- power
while the button is pressed. The button completes the circuit to
the bell WHILE the button is pressed. As soon as the button is
released, the circuit is broken.

For a 1 tone bell, the chime/buzzer sounds while the button
is pressed.

For a 2 tone bell (ding.... DONG), the first tone is the result of
a solenoid pulling a striker to hit the first (DING) chime. The
second tone is a result of the striker being released and returning,
via a spring driven mechanism (to strike the DONG on the "back end"
of the striker).

For more complex mechanisms (and some electronic doorbells), power
needs to continue to flow through the button even AFTER it has
been released -- the bell mechanism can't "store" the electricity
that it needs. The diode allows "half" of the electricity to
flow all the time. This is enough for the mechanism to CONTINUE
operating.

The mechanism won't *start* its cycle/operation until it "sees"
the "full" electricity (which is only present when the diode
is SHORTED by the switch -- thereby allowing ALL the electricity
to flow to the bell mechanism).

The position of the bell mechanism, electrically, only allows it
to get power when the button is closed (or, bridged by that diode).
You have to route the wiring differently if you want power to
come to the bell unit all the time -- feeding the switch FROM
the bell unit (instead of feeding them in series with each other).

So, a diode in the bell unit in a traditionally wired circuit
can only *discard* half of the electricity presented to it.
If the (non-diode) button is "open" (not pressed), then there
is no electricity to discard; no electricity to operate!

On Sunday, January 17, 2016 at 12:00:14 PM UTC-6, Don Y wrote:

Goal is to learn something EVERY day! "Settling" for someone else's
conclusions leaves you eating *a* fish but never knowing how to catch
the next one!

You are an arrogant and offensive person...kind of a cross between Trader and Micky (sub the Mormon also). Using too many words and way too much narrative. I don't read 80% of your lather for fear of nodding off.

Tony, could you please adjust your email client to quote included text?
I've manually "compensated", here, to differentiate your comments from
mine...

On 1/17/2016 11:06 AM, Tony944 wrote:
"Don Y" wrote in message ...
On 1/16/2016 10:24 PM, Tony944 wrote:
I have replace more then on push button but I never came across door push
button with diode in inside, if there is diode it would be inside bell
enclosure itself.

It depends on the functionality provided by the diode.

A diode *shunting* the button allows (some) power to flow
through the button even when it is not pressed (assuming
typical AC drive for the doorbell circuit).

I need some explanation, you are saying that chimes/bells have constant power
at all times through diode when button is not press and full power when button

Exactly. I tried to illustrate why this can be required with
the buzzer/ding-dong examples. I'll rewrite them using LIGHTBULBS!

A traditional doorbell (1 or 2 tone) is like a lightbulb in place
of the doorbell (annunciator): WHILE the button is pressed,
the bulb is illuminated. When you release the button, the
bulb is *cold*.

Now, imagine you wanted that light to blink for 5 seconds when
the button is pressed. You can't count on the visitor to HOLD
the button pressed for a full 5 seconds. As soon as he
releases the button, the electric circuit is broken. The
light goes out.

You *could* try to "capture" enough electricity while the
button is BEING pressed and then use that STORED energy
after it is released to finish the task at hand. E.g.,
imagine you could INSTANTLY charge up a small battery
(*in* the annunicator -- "lightbulb", in this example)
when the button is pressed. Then, run your circuit
off that battery to "finish the job".

This would allow the visitor to release the button WITHOUT
cutting off power to your circuit -- because you've already
HORDED the power that you WILL NEED and stored it in that
battery. Size the battery large enough to store enough
energy to run your "mechanism" for one "cycle" ("tune").

[Capacitors are devices that are used to temporarily store
energy in this form. They don't need to be replaced like
batteries -- that wear out in relatively short order.
But, storing a LOT of energy in a capacitor requires a
physically large, expensive capacitor -- especially if you
are powering an electromechanically driven mechanism!]

If, instead, you design your mechanism so that it can
operate with "half the power", then the diode ensures
this "half power" is ALWAYS AVAILABLE to the mechanism.
Before and AFTER the button is pressed! All that remains
is to determine when FULL power is available -- as that
would only happen when the button was BEING pressed.
This can then act as a trigger to *start* the mechanism
knowing full well that you will be able to continue/finish
regardless of whether or not the button remains pressed
(because you've designed the mechanism to run properly
on "half power")

[Apologies to the /Technologencia/ for the stilted analogies]

The diode approach also works well for "bells" that need
power 24/7/365 -- even when you have NO visitors! E.g.,
I designed an electronic doorbell ~30 years ago that
played a "song" based on the current *date* -- Jingle Bells,
Birthdays, Auld Lang Syne, etc. As such, it needed power
to keep track of the current time/date -- without
requiring the user to change batteries every year, etc.

[30 years ago, it was a lot harder to design things that
would run "forever" on very small batteries. No lithium
ion stuff back then; no ultralow power processors; etc.]

My questions to the OP regarding whether or not the bell
still CONTINUES to work (with blown light) were intended to
determine if a diode in the button had *failed* (open). If
that was the case, the mechanism might *start* (when the
button is pressed -- cuz it still would see "full power"),
but would abruptly end when the button was released
(because that "half power" is no longer flowing through
the BLOWN diode to keep the mechanism running to the
end of its cycle/tune)

As the diode is always passing current to the mechanism,
it could be undersized and eventually "open" like a blown
fuse. In this case, the full potential (see my "waves"
analogy elsewhere this thread) of the transformer now
appears across the bulb. If the bulb had been selected
(by the button manufacturer) to expect *half* that
voltage, then it is suddenly being overdriven and it,
too, turns into a fuse. :

is press, I would love to see that
I am not saying that is not possible but I would like to see that.

Satisfied?

[Sorry, this is REALLY hard to explain without illustrations;
hence the verbiage.]

On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 02:38:08 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 1/16/2016 9:27 PM, Kate wrote:
I have replaced my doorbell button five times in a year. It is a wired one,
but the light keeps going out. It has a diode in it. The Westminster chimes
sound great.

Are they mechanical chimes or electronic chimes?

Very important.

The third time the light went out, I hired an electrician, and it still would
not light two months later.

Do they operate even though the bulb is toast?

Very good question.

The electrician told me to get a doorbell without the little wire inside the
doorbell, called a diode.

You shouldnt' have to get a new doorbell, ever, but certainly not when
it's a fancy one like yours.

Did it ever work right? 5 buttons in a year, but what about before
then? If it was new 18 months ago, and even if it wasn't, you could
call the manufacturer. A) they should know the problem and the
solution, B) if it does require replacing the bell and the problem
started within the warranty period, they may well replace the bell.
Some places will even go beyond a warranty period if they know it's
their product that failed.

OTOH, if your transformer is bigger than it was supposed to be, that
would not be the bell company's fault. Again, how long did the bell
work right.

My house came with a normal chime and a normal transformer. I think I
put in a lighted button. Then I couldn't hear the bell when I was in
the basement so I added a clapper bell in parallel in the basement.
Then I found a nicer bell on sale and put that in the hall and the old
one in the basement. Then the transformer wasn't strong enough to
ring both of them, so I bought a bigger xformer, probably higher
voltage.

Everything was fine for years until someone told me that everytime I
got a package, my burglar alarm went off. Apparently this had been
happening for years, and I figured out my glass/wood breakage
detectors were tripping because the doorbell was too loud (The
delivery man used to ring the bell then, or more likely the mailman.)

Rather than lower the sensitivity of the glass detector, I lowered the
voltage of the transformer by inserting a resistor in series with the
bell. This might be too much for you, because I have a variable
resistor whose knob I can turn until I get it working right, and then
a collection of various sizes of resistor I could find one that was
the same size as the variable one was when it worked.

Still, if you had even one or two resistors, you might well get lucky.
YOu can use little jumper wires, with alligator clips on each end, to
put a resistor in temporarily.


Assuming he is competent, then he's determined that the chime unit
requires the diode to allow power to continue to flow into the
unit AFTER you have released the button.

The bulb doesn't care about whether or not the button is pressed or
not. It also doesn't care about the diode or the chime unit.

Sort of.

The bulb has to be sized (electrically) so that the power that it
draws from the circuit isn't high enough to let the chime unit
think the button is being pressed (when it isn't). A button that
requires lots of power effectively looks like a short circuit...
ACROSS the button (so, the button appears pressed).

The bulb DOES care about the open circuit voltage across the
button. This will be determined by the characteristics of
your chime unit (those will be printed ON the chime unit!)
and the transformer chosen to drive the circuit.

The diode subtly changes what the bulb "sees".

Your transformer delivers AC (Alternating Current) to the
circuit. (batteries are Direct Current) Think of these
as waves on the ocean -- they have peaks and troughs.
But, the *average* "water level" of the ocean is somewhere
between (halfway!) the peaks and the troughs.

The bulb (switch) "sees" the range from peak to trough
all the time -- while the button is not pressed. The size
of these peaks/troughs -- the range between them -- is set
by the transformer. E.g., a 24 volt transformer has a
range between peaks and troughs that is twice what the range
would be for a 12 volt transformer.

The diode alters this. It lets ONLY the peaks go through
it. So, the peaks BYPASS the light -- taking a shortcut
through the diode! Instead, the light bulb only "sees"
the troughs. As the troughs are just as LOW as the peaks
are HIGH, this means the light "sees" half of the "voltage"
that the transformer produces.

View this sideways:

Normal electricity from transformer:
/
(
\
\
)
/
/
(
\
\
)
/


Electricity that takes a shortcut through the diode:
|
|
\
)
/
|
|
|
\
)
/
|


Electricity that the lightbulb "sees":
/
(
\
|
|
|
/
(
\
|
|
|

I lay my head down to look at these and I fell asleep. I feel rested
now. Very good explanation.

Bad illustration, but hopefully, you can see that the difference
between the leftmost (trough) and rightmost (peak) seen by the
light is LESS than the difference between the trough and peak
delivered by the transformer.

WITHOUT THE DIODE, the light sees what the transformer delivers.
So, it operates at a higher voltage. If not designed for that,
it burns out faster.

Also, if the diode fails ("open"), a bulb ends up seeing twice
the normal voltage that it would have with the diode functioning
properly. (diodes have ratings just like every other component)

Can someone please educate me. From what I am finding out, all wired doorbells
must have a diode or else the doorbell won't chime.

Well I don't know if any have one in the bell, but probably only fancy
ones like yours that play more than 2 notes.

See my response elsewhere this thread for a rough explanation.
Illustrations would be great, here, but too tedious to upload to
a hosting site, etc. (sorry)

If I really don't need a diode, for a wired doorbell, can someone tell me that
brand and model number of the unit? I am not interested in a battery operated
unit, but surely, there must be a doorbell button out there that just keeps on
working.

Call the manufacturer. First look on their website. If you dont'
know who made it, call any manufacturer and bluff your way. It won't
hurt them to spend 3 or 4 minutes on you. After all, all doorbell
makers are brothers.

Again, the *button* appears to be working -- but not the light
(which, presumably, is only illuminated when the button is NOT
being pressed?)

This cannot be rocket science.
The electrician I had moved, so I need to start all over again.

It's relatively easy to create a modification to an existing button
to "fix" this problem. I've installed LEDs in the illuminated
"doorbell" buttons for the garage door opener (one inside the house,
the other inside the garage). They'll be there until long after
the opener gives up the ghost! :-/

Many thanks!

HTH

First we need to know if this all started when Kate put in a new door chime, and maybe a new transformer, or is this just a new pro blem with an old door chime and old power transformer?

On 1/17/2016 1:27 PM, Tony944 wrote:
Don this is automatic setup Win-7 live I have no Idea how to
make any changes but I will look for it.

Don't kill yourself. Sorry, *I* can't help (I don't use that)
but perhaps someone else can chime in...

"Don Y" wrote in message ...

Tony, could you please adjust your email client to quote included text?
I've manually "compensated", here, to differentiate your comments from
mine...

On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 13:58:35 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 1/17/2016 1:27 PM, Tony944 wrote:
Don this is automatic setup Win-7 live I have no Idea how to
make any changes but I will look for it.

Don't kill yourself. Sorry, *I* can't help (I don't use that)
but perhaps someone else can chime in...

"Don Y" wrote in message ...

Tony, could you please adjust your email client to quote included text?
I've manually "compensated", here, to differentiate your comments from
mine...
I have seen some doorbels that would NOT work with a lighted button
too.

On 1/17/2016 2:11 PM, wrote:

I have seen some doorbels that would NOT work with a lighted button
too.

The light pulls current through the bell (annunciator) at all times
(much like the diode). So, anything that expects the current to drop
to some level below that "lamp current" can fail (i.e., the "mechanism"
may never "reset" completely to be ready for the next actuation).

There are all sorts of ways you can confuse a doorbell (annunciator).
E.g., you can arrange for current to flow in one way, the other way,
both ways, in varying amounts, etc. The challenge to the doorbell
(annunciator -- we tend to use the term "doorbell" to refer to the
actual *button* AND the *bell*) designer is to anticipate how the
home will be wired and make accommodations.

E.g., what if there are TWO buttons driving the single bell
(in parallel)? Then, a "diode" button installed "upside down"
on one button will effectively let the bell "see" the "full power"
(one diode lets the "peaks" through, the other lets the *troughs*
through -- bell sees peaks and troughs and thinks someone is
pushing *THE* button)

It's a delightfully simple circuit: power -- switch -- bell -- back to power
yet can be *******ized in countless ways! And, you don't want the homeowner
to have to make changes -- just *mount* the bell, ideally (and touch up
any paint around it)

On 1/17/2016 1:40 PM, wrote:
First we need to know if this all started when Kate put in a new door chime,
and maybe a new transformer, or is this just a new pro blem with an old door
chime and old power transformer?

It's another datum but the same information is available in other
forms (else the problem wouldn't exist). It's also possible
that mechanism has degraded/failed, "original" parts were "special"
(and replacements are missing some crucial characteristic), etc.

Doorbells *tend* to be designed so you can retrofit them with
minimal impact. People would be discouraged if they had to
change out a transformer:
Where is *yours* located?
Is it affixed to the *side* of a Jbox?
Or, to the top cover of one?
Is the Jbox on a wall -- or hanging from the ceiling?
Is it in a dimly lit basement?
Will you need to hire an electrician to open the box and remove the
wire nut connections to install the new XFMR?
Will the 18AWG solid bell wire *snap* when you try to remove it
from the screw terminals? Will there be enough of a service
loop for you to strip the remaining wire and reattach it?
Will you WONDER if it matters whether the red wire goes on
the "first" terminal or the "second"?

"Gee, why don't we buy this OTHER doorbell, instead...?"

On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 14:43:44 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 1/17/2016 1:40 PM, wrote:
First we need to know if this all started when Kate put in a new door chime,
and maybe a new transformer, or is this just a new pro blem with an old door
chime and old power transformer?

It's another datum but the same information is available in other
forms (else the problem wouldn't exist). It's also possible
that mechanism has degraded/failed, "original" parts were "special"
(and replacements are missing some crucial characteristic), etc.

Doorbells *tend* to be designed so you can retrofit them with
minimal impact. People would be discouraged if they had to
change out a transformer:
Where is *yours* located?
Is it affixed to the *side* of a Jbox?
Or, to the top cover of one?
Is the Jbox on a wall -- or hanging from the ceiling?
Is it in a dimly lit basement?
Will you need to hire an electrician to open the box and remove the
wire nut connections to install the new XFMR?
Will the 18AWG solid bell wire *snap* when you try to remove it
from the screw terminals? Will there be enough of a service
loop for you to strip the remaining wire and reattach it?
Will you WONDER if it matters whether the red wire goes on
the "first" terminal or the "second"?

"Gee, why don't we buy this OTHER doorbell, instead...?"

Mine is mounted directly to the service entrance box/load center..
Some have 3 terminals - You can get 8, 16, or 24 volts depending how
you wire to it.

Kate - Is this a new door chime installation, or is an old one that just started having problems. Unless you let us know, we can't make rational suggestions on what to try!!!!!!!!

On 1/17/2016 3:33 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 14:43:44 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 1/17/2016 1:40 PM, wrote:
First we need to know if this all started when Kate put in a new door chime,
and maybe a new transformer, or is this just a new pro blem with an old door
chime and old power transformer?

It's another datum but the same information is available in other
forms (else the problem wouldn't exist). It's also possible
that mechanism has degraded/failed, "original" parts were "special"
(and replacements are missing some crucial characteristic), etc.

Doorbells *tend* to be designed so you can retrofit them with
minimal impact. People would be discouraged if they had to
change out a transformer:
Where is *yours* located?
Is it affixed to the *side* of a Jbox?
Or, to the top cover of one?
Is the Jbox on a wall -- or hanging from the ceiling?
Is it in a dimly lit basement?
Will you need to hire an electrician to open the box and remove the
wire nut connections to install the new XFMR?
Will the 18AWG solid bell wire *snap* when you try to remove it
from the screw terminals? Will there be enough of a service
loop for you to strip the remaining wire and reattach it?
Will you WONDER if it matters whether the red wire goes on
the "first" terminal or the "second"?

"Gee, why don't we buy this OTHER doorbell, instead...?"

Mine is mounted directly to the service entrance box/load center..
Some have 3 terminals - You can get 8, 16, or 24 volts depending how
you wire to it.

In the house I grew up in, that's how ours was. But, the loadcenter
was in the basement so that was a realistic possibility.

Here, it was attached to the top of a 4" round Jbox located in a wall.
In previous house, it was attached to the *side* of a 4" round Jbox
located in (unfinished) ceiling.

In every case, getting to the primary is not for those "unskilled";
it's not like just unplugging a wall wart!

On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 18:27:19 -0800 (PST), wrote:

Kate - Is this a new door chime installation, or is an old one that just started having problems. Unless you let us know, we can't make rational suggestions on what to try!!!!!!!!

Who is Kate?

On Sat, 16 Jan 2016 20:27:08 -0800, Kate wrote:

I have replaced my doorbell button five times in a year. It is a wired
one, but the light keeps going out. It has a diode in it. The
Westminster chimes sound great.

Speaking of doorbells, I was just watching a documentary about the
Beverly Hillbilllies, and it showed Jethro in the front hall and the
music was coming out of the walls somehow, and Jethro said some day he
was going to tear out the walls to find out where it was coming from.

But, he said, after the music plays, someone always comes to the front
door, and sure enough after a while someone knocked.

She was head of the Historical Association and she saw Granny's loom
out front so she wanted to talk to her. Jed said that she was in the
kitchen making butter. "By hand? the woman asked. 'Oh, no. She uses
a churn."

So they went in to the kitchen and the woman was so pleased, she took
a camera out of her purse and asked if she could take pictures. "What
kind of pictures," Jed asked. "Still pictures." "Get your gun,
Pearl. She's a revenuer," Granny yelled.

But things calmed down and Jed got a trunk with more old things in
it, and he said to her, "When you look in this trunk, you'll be
happier than a cow in RED CLOVER". And she was.

I'm so glad the historical footage of their life in Beverly Hills
exists.

The third time the light went out, I hired an electrician, and it still
would not light two months later.

The electrician told me to get a doorbell without the little wire inside
the doorbell, called a diode.

Can someone please educate me. From what I am finding out, all wired
doorbells must have a diode or else the doorbell won't chime.

If I really don't need a diode, for a wired doorbell, can someone tell
me that brand and model number of the unit? I am not interested in a
battery operated unit, but surely, there must be a doorbell button out
there that just keeps on working.

This cannot be rocket science.
The electrician I had moved, so I need to start all over again.

Many thanks!

Kadee

On 01/17/2016 03:19 PM, Don Y wrote:

[snip]

It's a delightfully simple circuit: power -- switch -- bell -- back to
power
yet can be *******ized in countless ways! And, you don't want the
homeowner
to have to make changes -- just *mount* the bell, ideally (and touch up
any paint around it)

How about 2 buttons in series, each with a diode across it (opposite
polarity)? With no button pressed, no current flows. Press either
button, and current flows. Polarity depends on which button was pressed.
Now you have a 2-door doorbell with less wiring.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Happiness is the only good. The time to be happy is now, The place to
be happy is here." --R.G. Ingersoll

On 01/17/2016 04:33 PM, wrote:

[snip]

Mine is mounted directly to the service entrance box/load center..
Some have 3 terminals - You can get 8, 16, or 24 volts depending how
you wire to it.


Mine is hanging on a nail on the wall in the furnace room, with a plug
on the primary wires. It's marked 16V, but measures 18V.

Where I used to live, I never found the bell transformer.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Happiness is the only good. The time to be happy is now, The place to
be happy is here." --R.G. Ingersoll

On 1/18/2016 7:35 AM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 01/17/2016 03:19 PM, Don Y wrote:

[snip]

It's a delightfully simple circuit: power -- switch -- bell -- back to
power
yet can be *******ized in countless ways! And, you don't want the
homeowner
to have to make changes -- just *mount* the bell, ideally (and touch up
any paint around it)

How about 2 buttons in series, each with a diode across it (opposite polarity)?
With no button pressed, no current flows. Press either button, and current
flows. Polarity depends on which button was pressed. Now you have a 2-door
doorbell with less wiring.

I suspect you'd not realize any savings. It's unlikely that the two
"buttons" would be located near each other. Rather, one would be front
door and other back/side door. Annunciator and/or XFMR probably somewhere
in the middle -- so total wire length remains roughly the same.

It would also prevent the use of any "mechanism" that requires the
continued presence of power to operate (as in this case).

I have "buttons" at the front and rear doors, another at the front edge of
the front porch area (in case we opt to screen that area in), the entryway
from the garage, the side door into the garage and a button out at the
driveway (i.e., "Open the garage door for me!"). The entryway through the
garage also has an electromechanical lock mechanism so the door can be
"unlocked" electrically (though I am not happy with the choice of
"door hardware" : )

Tony Hwang posted for all of us...



Kate wrote:
I have replaced my doorbell button five times in a year. It is a wired
one, but the light keeps going out. It has a diode in it. The
Westminster chimes sound great.

The third time the light went out, I hired an electrician, and it still
would not light two months later.

The electrician told me to get a doorbell without the little wire inside
the doorbell, called a diode.

Can someone please educate me. From what I am finding out, all wired
doorbells must have a diode or else the doorbell won't chime.

If I really don't need a diode, for a wired doorbell, can someone tell
me that brand and model number of the unit? I am not interested in a
battery operated unit, but surely, there must be a doorbell button out
there that just keeps on working.

This cannot be rocket science.
The electrician I had moved, so I need to start all over again.

Many thanks!

Kadee

I think your doorbell transformer output voltage is too high. Measure
the output voltage. It should be near 24V AC typical. If it is
noticeably higher you need to replace it or take a measure to drop the
voltage using voltage drop resistor calculated per Ohm's law and
consider using LED. Was it working good and suddenly it is burning
bulbs? Or see if you can find higher voltage rated lamp like 32V.

If she has an electrician in to do a doorbell then I don't think she is
capable of measuring the voltage or other testing. This is not a slam
against her, it's not in her knowledge set.

--
Tekkie

posted for all of us...



On Sat, 16 Jan 2016 20:27:08 -0800, Kate wrote:

I have replaced my doorbell button five times in a year. It is a wired
one, but the light keeps going out. It has a diode in it. The
Westminster chimes sound great.

The third time the light went out, I hired an electrician, and it still
would not light two months later.

The electrician told me to get a doorbell without the little wire inside
the doorbell, called a diode.

Can someone please educate me. From what I am finding out, all wired
doorbells must have a diode or else the doorbell won't chime.

If I really don't need a diode, for a wired doorbell, can someone tell
me that brand and model number of the unit? I am not interested in a
battery operated unit, but surely, there must be a doorbell button out
there that just keeps on working.

This cannot be rocket science.
The electrician I had moved, so I need to start all over again.

Many thanks!

Kadee
You likely have the wrong transformer - providing too much voltage to
the lighted button. Measure the voltage - should be 12-16 volts - you
likely have a 24 volt transformer (made for thermostat/furnace control
instead of doorbell)

+1 As always

--
Tekkie

On 1/18/2016 6:57 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 18:27:19 -0800 (PST), wrote:

Kate - Is this a new door chime installation, or is an old one that just
started having problems. Unless you let us know, we can't make rational
suggestions on what to try!!!!!!!!

Who is Kate?

The claimed OP.

On Saturday, January 16, 2016 at 8:27:13 PM UTC-8, Kate wrote:
I have replaced my doorbell button five times in a year. It is a wired
one, but the light keeps going out. It has a diode in it. The
Westminster chimes sound great.

The third time the light went out, I hired an electrician, and it still
would not light two months later.

The electrician told me to get a doorbell without the little wire inside
the doorbell, called a diode.

Can someone please educate me. From what I am finding out, all wired
doorbells must have a diode or else the doorbell won't chime.

If I really don't need a diode, for a wired doorbell, can someone tell
me that brand and model number of the unit? I am not interested in a
battery operated unit, but surely, there must be a doorbell button out
there that just keeps on working.

This cannot be rocket science.
The electrician I had moved, so I need to start all over again.

Many thanks!

Kadee

No, I don't know how to do this, but it sure helps when I meet with the electrician. Thanks.

On Saturday, January 16, 2016 at 9:19:12 PM UTC-8, Tony Hwang wrote:
Kate wrote:
I have replaced my doorbell button five times in a year. It is a wired
one, but the light keeps going out. It has a diode in it. The
Westminster chimes sound great.

The third time the light went out, I hired an electrician, and it still
would not light two months later.

The electrician told me to get a doorbell without the little wire inside
the doorbell, called a diode.

Can someone please educate me. From what I am finding out, all wired
doorbells must have a diode or else the doorbell won't chime.

If I really don't need a diode, for a wired doorbell, can someone tell
me that brand and model number of the unit? I am not interested in a
battery operated unit, but surely, there must be a doorbell button out
there that just keeps on working.

This cannot be rocket science.
The electrician I had moved, so I need to start all over again.

Many thanks!

Kadee

Door bell operates at 10V, 16V(typical) or even 24V AC. Did you replace
a chime or button? Look at the tranformer voltage rating and voltage
required for the chime. Are they different? There is even a transformer
with tri-voltage output. My guess is you have mismatched doorbell
system. Ours are 5 notes playing Westminster chime by a rotary gong
running on 24V AC. I never replaced bulb in years.

A new doorbell and doorbell button was installed six years ago. It all worked fine until the light first went out two years ago. I bought a generic doorbell push button at Home Depot and it worked for a year. Lately, it seems I need to buy a new doorbell button every few months. The electrician installed a new button and it worked for three months. It is easy to do, so I installed two more and they both lasted a few months only.

The new doorbell button does not list any volts, etc.
As yo can tell, I don't know much about this and I have no idea where the transformer is. If it is the fancy box that I bought, and the transformer is inside of that box, well, it hangs on a wall just inside of the front door..
It is about 8 feet away from the button.

Thanks for your help.

On Saturday, January 16, 2016 at 9:24:16 PM UTC-8, Tony944 wrote:
"Kate" wrote in message ...

I have replaced my doorbell button five times in a year. It is a wired
one, but the light keeps going out. It has a diode in it. The
Westminster chimes sound great.

The third time the light went out, I hired an electrician, and it still
would not light two months later.

The electrician told me to get a doorbell without the little wire inside
the doorbell, called a diode.

Can someone please educate me. From what I am finding out, all wired
doorbells must have a diode or else the doorbell won't chime.

If I really don't need a diode, for a wired doorbell, can someone tell
me that brand and model number of the unit? I am not interested in a
battery operated unit, but surely, there must be a doorbell button out
there that just keeps on working.

This cannot be rocket science.
The electrician I had moved, so I need to start all over again.

Many thanks!

Kadee

I have replace more then on push button but I never came across
door push button with diode in inside, if there is diode it would be
inside bell enclosure itself.

Thanks for your reply. The diode hooks onto a screw, that is inside of the actual doorbell button.

On Saturday, January 16, 2016 at 9:37:31 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jan 2016 20:27:08 -0800, Kate wrote:

I have replaced my doorbell button five times in a year. It is a wired
one, but the light keeps going out. It has a diode in it. The
Westminster chimes sound great.

The third time the light went out, I hired an electrician, and it still
would not light two months later.

The electrician told me to get a doorbell without the little wire inside
the doorbell, called a diode.

Can someone please educate me. From what I am finding out, all wired
doorbells must have a diode or else the doorbell won't chime.

If I really don't need a diode, for a wired doorbell, can someone tell
me that brand and model number of the unit? I am not interested in a
battery operated unit, but surely, there must be a doorbell button out
there that just keeps on working.

This cannot be rocket science.
The electrician I had moved, so I need to start all over again.

Many thanks!

Kadee
You likely have the wrong transformer - providing too much voltage to
the lighted button. Measure the voltage - should be 12-16 volts - you
likely have a 24 volt transformer (made for thermostat/furnace control
instead of doorbell)

Does the transformer come with the new doorbell kit? Thanks.

On Sunday, January 17, 2016 at 1:37:48 AM UTC-8, Don Y wrote:
On 1/16/2016 9:27 PM, Kate wrote:
I have replaced my doorbell button five times in a year. It is a wired one,
but the light keeps going out. It has a diode in it. The Westminster chimes
sound great.

Are they mechanical chimes or electronic chimes?

The third time the light went out, I hired an electrician, and it still would
not light two months later.

Do they operate even though the bulb is toast?

The electrician told me to get a doorbell without the little wire inside the
doorbell, called a diode.

Assuming he is competent, then he's determined that the chime unit
requires the diode to allow power to continue to flow into the
unit AFTER you have released the button.

The bulb doesn't care about whether or not the button is pressed or
not. It also doesn't care about the diode or the chime unit.

Sort of.

The bulb has to be sized (electrically) so that the power that it
draws from the circuit isn't high enough to let the chime unit
think the button is being pressed (when it isn't). A button that
requires lots of power effectively looks like a short circuit...
ACROSS the button (so, the button appears pressed).

The bulb DOES care about the open circuit voltage across the
button. This will be determined by the characteristics of
your chime unit (those will be printed ON the chime unit!)
and the transformer chosen to drive the circuit.

The diode subtly changes what the bulb "sees".

Your transformer delivers AC (Alternating Current) to the
circuit. (batteries are Direct Current) Think of these
as waves on the ocean -- they have peaks and troughs.
But, the *average* "water level" of the ocean is somewhere
between (halfway!) the peaks and the troughs.

The bulb (switch) "sees" the range from peak to trough
all the time -- while the button is not pressed. The size
of these peaks/troughs -- the range between them -- is set
by the transformer. E.g., a 24 volt transformer has a
range between peaks and troughs that is twice what the range
would be for a 12 volt transformer.

The diode alters this. It lets ONLY the peaks go through
it. So, the peaks BYPASS the light -- taking a shortcut
through the diode! Instead, the light bulb only "sees"
the troughs. As the troughs are just as LOW as the peaks
are HIGH, this means the light "sees" half of the "voltage"
that the transformer produces.

View this sideways:

Normal electricity from transformer:
/
(
\
\
)
/
/
(
\
\
)
/


Electricity that takes a shortcut through the diode:
|
|
\
)
/
|
|
|
\
)
/
|


Electricity that the lightbulb "sees":
/
(
\
|
|
|
/
(
\
|
|
|

Bad illustration, but hopefully, you can see that the difference
between the leftmost (trough) and rightmost (peak) seen by the
light is LESS than the difference between the trough and peak
delivered by the transformer.

WITHOUT THE DIODE, the light sees what the transformer delivers.
So, it operates at a higher voltage. If not designed for that,
it burns out faster.

Also, if the diode fails ("open"), a bulb ends up seeing twice
the normal voltage that it would have with the diode functioning
properly. (diodes have ratings just like every other component)

Can someone please educate me. From what I am finding out, all wired doorbells
must have a diode or else the doorbell won't chime.

See my response elsewhere this thread for a rough explanation.
Illustrations would be great, here, but too tedious to upload to
a hosting site, etc. (sorry)

If I really don't need a diode, for a wired doorbell, can someone tell me that
brand and model number of the unit? I am not interested in a battery operated
unit, but surely, there must be a doorbell button out there that just keeps on
working.

Again, the *button* appears to be working -- but not the light
(which, presumably, is only illuminated when the button is NOT
being pressed?)

This cannot be rocket science.
The electrician I had moved, so I need to start all over again.

It's relatively easy to create a modification to an existing button
to "fix" this problem. I've installed LEDs in the illuminated
"doorbell" buttons for the garage door opener (one inside the house,
the other inside the garage). They'll be there until long after
the opener gives up the ghost! :-/

Many thanks!

HTH

These are electronic chimes. Yes, when the light is out, the doorbell will still chime. Thanks for all of your time in replying. It helped.

On Sunday, January 17, 2016 at 11:12:17 AM UTC-8, Micky wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jan 2016 02:38:08 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 1/16/2016 9:27 PM, Kate wrote:
I have replaced my doorbell button five times in a year. It is a wired one,
but the light keeps going out. It has a diode in it. The Westminster chimes
sound great.

Are they mechanical chimes or electronic chimes?

Very important.

The third time the light went out, I hired an electrician, and it still would
not light two months later.

Do they operate even though the bulb is toast?

Very good question.

The electrician told me to get a doorbell without the little wire inside the
doorbell, called a diode.

You shouldnt' have to get a new doorbell, ever, but certainly not when
it's a fancy one like yours.

Did it ever work right? 5 buttons in a year, but what about before
then? If it was new 18 months ago, and even if it wasn't, you could
call the manufacturer. A) they should know the problem and the
solution, B) if it does require replacing the bell and the problem
started within the warranty period, they may well replace the bell.
Some places will even go beyond a warranty period if they know it's
their product that failed.

OTOH, if your transformer is bigger than it was supposed to be, that
would not be the bell company's fault. Again, how long did the bell
work right.

My house came with a normal chime and a normal transformer. I think I
put in a lighted button. Then I couldn't hear the bell when I was in
the basement so I added a clapper bell in parallel in the basement.
Then I found a nicer bell on sale and put that in the hall and the old
one in the basement. Then the transformer wasn't strong enough to
ring both of them, so I bought a bigger xformer, probably higher
voltage.

Everything was fine for years until someone told me that everytime I
got a package, my burglar alarm went off. Apparently this had been
happening for years, and I figured out my glass/wood breakage
detectors were tripping because the doorbell was too loud (The
delivery man used to ring the bell then, or more likely the mailman.)

Rather than lower the sensitivity of the glass detector, I lowered the
voltage of the transformer by inserting a resistor in series with the
bell. This might be too much for you, because I have a variable
resistor whose knob I can turn until I get it working right, and then
a collection of various sizes of resistor I could find one that was
the same size as the variable one was when it worked.

Still, if you had even one or two resistors, you might well get lucky.
YOu can use little jumper wires, with alligator clips on each end, to
put a resistor in temporarily.


Assuming he is competent, then he's determined that the chime unit
requires the diode to allow power to continue to flow into the
unit AFTER you have released the button.

The bulb doesn't care about whether or not the button is pressed or
not. It also doesn't care about the diode or the chime unit.

Sort of.

The bulb has to be sized (electrically) so that the power that it
draws from the circuit isn't high enough to let the chime unit
think the button is being pressed (when it isn't). A button that
requires lots of power effectively looks like a short circuit...
ACROSS the button (so, the button appears pressed).

The bulb DOES care about the open circuit voltage across the
button. This will be determined by the characteristics of
your chime unit (those will be printed ON the chime unit!)
and the transformer chosen to drive the circuit.

The diode subtly changes what the bulb "sees".

Your transformer delivers AC (Alternating Current) to the
circuit. (batteries are Direct Current) Think of these
as waves on the ocean -- they have peaks and troughs.
But, the *average* "water level" of the ocean is somewhere
between (halfway!) the peaks and the troughs.

The bulb (switch) "sees" the range from peak to trough
all the time -- while the button is not pressed. The size
of these peaks/troughs -- the range between them -- is set
by the transformer. E.g., a 24 volt transformer has a
range between peaks and troughs that is twice what the range
would be for a 12 volt transformer.

The diode alters this. It lets ONLY the peaks go through
it. So, the peaks BYPASS the light -- taking a shortcut
through the diode! Instead, the light bulb only "sees"
the troughs. As the troughs are just as LOW as the peaks
are HIGH, this means the light "sees" half of the "voltage"
that the transformer produces.

View this sideways:

Normal electricity from transformer:
/
(
\
\
)
/
/
(
\
\
)
/


Electricity that takes a shortcut through the diode:
|
|
\
)
/
|
|
|
\
)
/
|


Electricity that the lightbulb "sees":
/
(
\
|
|
|
/
(
\
|
|
|

I lay my head down to look at these and I fell asleep. I feel rested
now. Very good explanation.

Bad illustration, but hopefully, you can see that the difference
between the leftmost (trough) and rightmost (peak) seen by the
light is LESS than the difference between the trough and peak
delivered by the transformer.

WITHOUT THE DIODE, the light sees what the transformer delivers.
So, it operates at a higher voltage. If not designed for that,
it burns out faster.

Also, if the diode fails ("open"), a bulb ends up seeing twice
the normal voltage that it would have with the diode functioning
properly. (diodes have ratings just like every other component)

Can someone please educate me. From what I am finding out, all wired doorbells
must have a diode or else the doorbell won't chime.

Well I don't know if any have one in the bell, but probably only fancy
ones like yours that play more than 2 notes.

See my response elsewhere this thread for a rough explanation.
Illustrations would be great, here, but too tedious to upload to
a hosting site, etc. (sorry)

If I really don't need a diode, for a wired doorbell, can someone tell me that
brand and model number of the unit? I am not interested in a battery operated
unit, but surely, there must be a doorbell button out there that just keeps on
working.

Call the manufacturer. First look on their website. If you dont'
know who made it, call any manufacturer and bluff your way. It won't
hurt them to spend 3 or 4 minutes on you. After all, all doorbell
makers are brothers.

Again, the *button* appears to be working -- but not the light
(which, presumably, is only illuminated when the button is NOT
being pressed?)

This cannot be rocket science.
The electrician I had moved, so I need to start all over again.

It's relatively easy to create a modification to an existing button
to "fix" this problem. I've installed LEDs in the illuminated
"doorbell" buttons for the garage door opener (one inside the house,
the other inside the garage). They'll be there until long after
the opener gives up the ghost! :-/

Many thanks!

HTH

Great advice. I will call the manufacturer and hopefully they can help me.

On Sunday, January 17, 2016 at 12:40:22 PM UTC-8, wrote:
First we need to know if this all started when Kate put in a new door chime, and maybe a new transformer, or is this just a new pro blem with an old door chime and old power transformer?

I had a new doorbell button and decorative box (not sure what you call it)
that hangs on the wall inside. That is where I decide which chime will play.

It worked fine for five years. The problem started when my doorbell button light stayed out. The chime worked, but not the light. Since then, I have replaced many buttons.

Thanks.

On Saturday, January 16, 2016 at 8:27:13 PM UTC-8, Kate wrote:
I have replaced my doorbell button five times in a year. It is a wired
one, but the light keeps going out. It has a diode in it. The
Westminster chimes sound great.

The third time the light went out, I hired an electrician, and it still
would not light two months later.

The electrician told me to get a doorbell without the little wire inside
the doorbell, called a diode.

Can someone please educate me. From what I am finding out, all wired
doorbells must have a diode or else the doorbell won't chime.

If I really don't need a diode, for a wired doorbell, can someone tell
me that brand and model number of the unit? I am not interested in a
battery operated unit, but surely, there must be a doorbell button out
there that just keeps on working.

This cannot be rocket science.
The electrician I had moved, so I need to start all over again.

Many thanks!

Kadee

OK, I just thought of something. When the electrician installed my new wired doorbell unit, I recall he said something about putting the transformer in my fuse box. I just went out to look, and I don't know what a transformer looks like, but could there be a chance that he took the cover off of my fuse box, and installed it behind the cover? I am thinking that the transformer is small enough to be placed there.

Thanks.

On 1/18/2016 1:10 PM, Kate wrote:
These are electronic chimes. Yes, when the light is out, the doorbell will
still chime.

To be clear: briefly pushing the button (and releasing) will
cause the chimes to play their complete melody (?)

While not 100% conclusive, this suggests that the diode is intact
and is allowing "half" the electricity to continue to flow even
after the button is released.

You could *remove* the button and just try tapping the wires
together (holding them by their insulation -- despite it's
relatively low voltage) to see if the doorbell plays its entire
tune -- or, if it just gets started and then quits (because
there is no diode present with the button removed!)

Do you still have any of the old (toasted) buttons? Are they
just "generic" buttons -- nothing ornate/fancy?

Is your posted email valid?

Thanks for all of your time in replying. It helped.