I installed chair rails for my sister in her new rental home. All went
well except two minor issues. In one room, with my Zircon I520 deep scan
stud sensor, I cannot locate a stud to fasten a section of the rail and
thus, there's a slight gap. On the other wall in another room, I'm
dumbfounded at what's behind the wall. First, I'm uncertain if I found
the stud since the sensor was a bit fuzzy. Second, when I shoot a nail
in that area where I think it's a stud (BTW, I'm using 2" brad nails),
the nail is curving backwards and exiting the front of the rail and not
even penetrating the wall. The ends of the rail are near a window, door
and/or room opening. Therefore, there should obviously be a stud, but
the end of this same rail also curved back at me on one end but stuck at
the window end.

Without shooting nails in the entire rail trying to find a stud and
creating holes to fill, I'm uncertain of how I should attempt to fasten
these small sections and only two options come to mind. One, try using a
finish nail for the curving nail issue and create bigger holes to fill,
though still uncertain of stud location or two, use adhesive.

What say the experts?

On 10/13/2015 10:01 PM, Meanie wrote:

Without shooting nails in the entire rail trying to find a stud and
creating holes to fill, I'm uncertain of how I should attempt to fasten
these small sections and only two options come to mind. One, try using a
finish nail for the curving nail issue and create bigger holes to fill,
though still uncertain of stud location or two, use adhesive.

What say the experts?

I'd go with adhesive, but a 2" brad should give you a little hold in the
drywall until the adhesive cures.

On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 22:27:19 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 10/13/2015 10:01 PM, Meanie wrote:

Without shooting nails in the entire rail trying to find a stud and
creating holes to fill, I'm uncertain of how I should attempt to fasten
these small sections and only two options come to mind. One, try using a
finish nail for the curving nail issue and create bigger holes to fill,
though still uncertain of stud location or two, use adhesive.

What say the experts?

I'd go with adhesive, but a 2" brad should give you a little hold in the
drywall until the adhesive cures.
What's wrong with finding the studs before fastening the chair rail?
a few small holes in the drywall, hidden by the chair rail, should be
a total non-issue., assuming you cannot locate the studs with a common
stud finder.

On 10/13/2015 10:48 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 22:27:19 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 10/13/2015 10:01 PM, Meanie wrote:

Without shooting nails in the entire rail trying to find a stud and
creating holes to fill, I'm uncertain of how I should attempt to fasten
these small sections and only two options come to mind. One, try using a
finish nail for the curving nail issue and create bigger holes to fill,
though still uncertain of stud location or two, use adhesive.

What say the experts?

I'd go with adhesive, but a 2" brad should give you a little hold in the
drywall until the adhesive cures.
What's wrong with finding the studs before fastening the chair rail?
a few small holes in the drywall, hidden by the chair rail, should be
a total non-issue., assuming you cannot locate the studs with a common
stud finder.


True, nothing wrong with that. I was thinking not to put many holes in a
rental home, even though they can be patched.

On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 5:58:13 AM UTC-4, SBH wrote:
On 10/13/2015 10:48 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 22:27:19 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 10/13/2015 10:01 PM, Meanie wrote:

Without shooting nails in the entire rail trying to find a stud and
creating holes to fill, I'm uncertain of how I should attempt to fasten
these small sections and only two options come to mind. One, try using a
finish nail for the curving nail issue and create bigger holes to fill,
though still uncertain of stud location or two, use adhesive.

What say the experts?

I'd go with adhesive, but a 2" brad should give you a little hold in the
drywall until the adhesive cures.
What's wrong with finding the studs before fastening the chair rail?
a few small holes in the drywall, hidden by the chair rail, should be
a total non-issue., assuming you cannot locate the studs with a common
stud finder.


True, nothing wrong with that. I was thinking not to put many holes in a
rental home, even though they can be patched.

What does the lease say about modifying the property?

My daughter rents the upstairs of a fairly old house. There is a clause in the lease specifically prohibiting her from "making improvements" to the property.

On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 05:58:00 -0400, Meanie
wrote:

On 10/13/2015 10:48 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 22:27:19 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 10/13/2015 10:01 PM, Meanie wrote:

Without shooting nails in the entire rail trying to find a stud and
creating holes to fill, I'm uncertain of how I should attempt to fasten
these small sections and only two options come to mind. One, try using a
finish nail for the curving nail issue and create bigger holes to fill,
though still uncertain of stud location or two, use adhesive.

What say the experts?

I'd go with adhesive, but a 2" brad should give you a little hold in the
drywall until the adhesive cures.
What's wrong with finding the studs before fastening the chair rail?
a few small holes in the drywall, hidden by the chair rail, should be
a total non-issue., assuming you cannot locate the studs with a common
stud finder.


True, nothing wrong with that. I was thinking not to put many holes in a
rental home, even though they can be patched.
Gluing the chair rail will make a bigger mess to clean up if the
chair rail has to come off. Do you have the landlord's permission to
make the modification?

Meanie writes:

I installed chair rails for my sister in her new rental home. All went
well except two minor issues. In one room, with my Zircon I520 deep
scan stud sensor, I cannot locate a stud to fasten a section of the
rail and thus, there's a slight gap. On the other wall in another
room, I'm dumbfounded at what's behind the wall. First, I'm uncertain
if I found the stud since the sensor was a bit fuzzy. Second, when I
shoot a nail in that area where I think it's a stud (BTW, I'm using 2"
brad nails), the nail is curving backwards and exiting the front of
the rail and not even penetrating the wall. The ends of the rail are
near a window, door and/or room opening. Therefore, there should
obviously be a stud, but the end of this same rail also curved back at
me on one end but stuck at the window end.

Without shooting nails in the entire rail trying to find a stud and
creating holes to fill, I'm uncertain of how I should attempt to
fasten these small sections and only two options come to mind. One,
try using a finish nail for the curving nail issue and create bigger
holes to fill, though still uncertain of stud location or two, use
adhesive.

What say the experts?

The nail that won't go in may be hitting a metal plate there to
protect some wiring.

--
Dan Espen

DerbyDad03 wrote in news:26500995-e8d9-4707-992d-
:

What does the lease say about modifying the property?


**** the lease.

On 10/14/2015 7:39 AM, Dan Espen wrote:
writes:

I installed chair rails ... [and] ... when I
shoot a nail in that area where I think it's a stud (BTW, I'm using 2"
brad nails), the nail is curving backwards and exiting the front of
the rail and not even penetrating the wall. ...

The nail that won't go in may be hitting a metal plate there to
protect some wiring.


+22

OP's askin' for trouble if keeps at it there.

Didn't read all the responses but the trick woulda' been to have made
certain of the located studs in a to-be hidden area behind the rail
_before_ actually applying any of the rail to the wall...

--

On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 08:39:39 -0400, Dan Espen
wrote:

The nail that won't go in may be hitting a metal plate there to
protect some wiring.


.... or a plumbing pipe

On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 04:11:26 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

rental home, even though they can be patched.

What does the lease say about modifying the property?

My daughter rents the upstairs of a fairly old house. There is a clause in the lease specifically prohibiting her from "making improvements" to the property.

I had the same clause in my rental agreement leases. Didn't stop the
renter from changing a door he broke. I had to replace the entire door
and jamb, after I evicted him in court and kept his security deposit
money.

On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 10:24:18 -0500, dpb wrote:

The nail that won't go in may be hitting a metal plate there to
protect some wiring.


+22

OP's askin' for trouble if keeps at it there.

Once saw a drywall screw that was driven into a copper water pipe. No
leak at first. Then the screw rusted and gave way...

On 10/14/2015 10:44 AM, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 10:24:18 -0500, wrote:

The nail that won't go in may be hitting a metal plate there to
protect some wiring.


+22

OP's askin' for trouble if keeps at it there.

Once saw a drywall screw that was driven into a copper water pipe. No
leak at first. Then the screw rusted and gave way...

Oh yeah, stuff like that happens all the time...40 yr ago in first house
in VA was finishing basement and as was somewhat low height and trying
to get away cheap as ended up were selling/moving soon, put sheetrock on
ceiling rather than drop tile or similar.

Had a bunch of friends helping and despite all my markings to locate
various locations, one put a drywall nail (this was long before the
drywall screws were even dreamed of, what more common) into the A/C hp
line...needless to say, that slowed down the weekend.

--

On 10/14/2015 10:30 AM, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 08:39:39 -0400, Dan
wrote:

The nail that won't go in may be hitting a metal plate there to
protect some wiring.


... or a plumbing pipe

And shoot a few more and at least decent chance will not just bend and
stop but come on back and get the shooter...

--

On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 11:55:13 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 10/14/2015 10:30 AM, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 08:39:39 -0400, Dan
wrote:

The nail that won't go in may be hitting a metal plate there to
protect some wiring.


... or a plumbing pipe

And shoot a few more and at least decent chance will not just bend and
stop but come on back and get the shooter...

I've had a few brads curl back when they hit a framing nail. Be
careful, ya'll

On 10/14/2015 8:39 AM, Dan Espen wrote:
Meanie writes:

I installed chair rails for my sister in her new rental home. All went
well except two minor issues. In one room, with my Zircon I520 deep
scan stud sensor, I cannot locate a stud to fasten a section of the
rail and thus, there's a slight gap. On the other wall in another
room, I'm dumbfounded at what's behind the wall. First, I'm uncertain
if I found the stud since the sensor was a bit fuzzy. Second, when I
shoot a nail in that area where I think it's a stud (BTW, I'm using 2"
brad nails), the nail is curving backwards and exiting the front of
the rail and not even penetrating the wall. The ends of the rail are
near a window, door and/or room opening. Therefore, there should
obviously be a stud, but the end of this same rail also curved back at
me on one end but stuck at the window end.

Without shooting nails in the entire rail trying to find a stud and
creating holes to fill, I'm uncertain of how I should attempt to
fasten these small sections and only two options come to mind. One,
try using a finish nail for the curving nail issue and create bigger
holes to fill, though still uncertain of stud location or two, use
adhesive.

What say the experts?

The nail that won't go in may be hitting a metal plate there to
protect some wiring.



Ahhh, enlightenment. Now that I recall, the sensor was displaying the AC
symbol which I assumed it was the wire from the outlet just below. I
tried sensing the stud near that outlet and that's where the nail
curved. I didn't realize they put plates to protect it. Obviously, a
good idea.

Thanks

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 10/14/2015 7:11 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 5:58:13 AM UTC-4, SBH wrote:
On 10/13/2015 10:48 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 22:27:19 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 10/13/2015 10:01 PM, Meanie wrote:

Without shooting nails in the entire rail trying to find a stud and
creating holes to fill, I'm uncertain of how I should attempt to fasten
these small sections and only two options come to mind. One, try using a
finish nail for the curving nail issue and create bigger holes to fill,
though still uncertain of stud location or two, use adhesive.

What say the experts?

I'd go with adhesive, but a 2" brad should give you a little hold in the
drywall until the adhesive cures.
What's wrong with finding the studs before fastening the chair rail?
a few small holes in the drywall, hidden by the chair rail, should be
a total non-issue., assuming you cannot locate the studs with a common
stud finder.


True, nothing wrong with that. I was thinking not to put many holes in a
rental home, even though they can be patched.

What does the lease say about modifying the property?

My daughter rents the upstairs of a fairly old house. There is a clause in the lease specifically prohibiting her from "making improvements" to the property.


She received the OK from the landlord but I can't state specifics on the
lease.

---
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 10/14/2015 8:10 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 05:58:00 -0400, Meanie
wrote:

On 10/13/2015 10:48 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 22:27:19 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 10/13/2015 10:01 PM, Meanie wrote:

Without shooting nails in the entire rail trying to find a stud and
creating holes to fill, I'm uncertain of how I should attempt to fasten
these small sections and only two options come to mind. One, try using a
finish nail for the curving nail issue and create bigger holes to fill,
though still uncertain of stud location or two, use adhesive.

What say the experts?

I'd go with adhesive, but a 2" brad should give you a little hold in the
drywall until the adhesive cures.
What's wrong with finding the studs before fastening the chair rail?
a few small holes in the drywall, hidden by the chair rail, should be
a total non-issue., assuming you cannot locate the studs with a common
stud finder.


True, nothing wrong with that. I was thinking not to put many holes in a
rental home, even though they can be patched.
Gluing the chair rail will make a bigger mess to clean up if the
chair rail has to come off. Do you have the landlord's permission to
make the modification?


If there's a metal plate to protect the wiring as Dan stated, then I'm
left with no other option.

Landlord provided permission. My sister's no dummy. She clarifies these
issues beforehand.

---
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You can fined tool to find stud inside of wall go to Homedepo and look for
it ask.

"Meanie" wrote in message ...

On 10/14/2015 7:11 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 5:58:13 AM UTC-4, SBH wrote:
On 10/13/2015 10:48 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 22:27:19 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 10/13/2015 10:01 PM, Meanie wrote:

Without shooting nails in the entire rail trying to find a stud and
creating holes to fill, I'm uncertain of how I should attempt to
fasten
these small sections and only two options come to mind. One, try using
a
finish nail for the curving nail issue and create bigger holes to
fill,
though still uncertain of stud location or two, use adhesive.

What say the experts?

I'd go with adhesive, but a 2" brad should give you a little hold in
the
drywall until the adhesive cures.
What's wrong with finding the studs before fastening the chair rail?
a few small holes in the drywall, hidden by the chair rail, should be
a total non-issue., assuming you cannot locate the studs with a common
stud finder.


True, nothing wrong with that. I was thinking not to put many holes in a
rental home, even though they can be patched.

What does the lease say about modifying the property?

My daughter rents the upstairs of a fairly old house. There is a clause in
the lease specifically prohibiting her from "making improvements" to the
property.


She received the OK from the landlord but I can't state specifics on the
lease.

---
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On 10/14/2015 12:31 PM, Meanie wrote:
On 10/14/2015 8:39 AM, Dan Espen wrote:
....

The nail that won't go in may be hitting a metal plate there to
protect some wiring.

Ahhh, enlightenment. Now that I recall, the sensor was displaying the AC
symbol which I assumed it was the wire from the outlet just below. I
tried sensing the stud near that outlet and that's where the nail
curved. I didn't realize they put plates to protect it. Obviously, a
good idea.
....

It's too late now, but in future if run into similar before you put up
any of the rail you can probe with a nail behind the target area and
depending on where the actual cable is running, sometimes you might get
lucky and discover one or the other ends of the plate is above/below the
needed target area. If, of course, you have the usual murphy's in town
result they'll have centered that run directly in the middle of your
desired location...

--

On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 11:42:27 AM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 04:11:26 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

rental home, even though they can be patched.

What does the lease say about modifying the property?

My daughter rents the upstairs of a fairly old house. There is a clause in the lease specifically prohibiting her from "making improvements" to the property.

I had the same clause in my rental agreement leases. Didn't stop the
renter from changing a door he broke. I had to replace the entire door
and jamb, after I evicted him in court and kept his security deposit
money.

I mentioned that the "no improvement" clause was in the lease, but I didn't
say that we adhered to it. ;-)

The day we moved her in I noticed 3 "improvements" that needed to be done
immediately.

1 - The press board bottoms of 3 kitchen drawers were mush. I actually put
my finger right through the bottom of one. A roommate who had moved in a
couple of days earlier put all the utensils on the counter for fear that
everything would fall right through the bottoms of the drawers. The 3
pieces of 1/4" plywood that I cut were a huge improvement.

2 - The knobs and stripped screws from 2 drawers in the bathroom vanity were
inside the drawers. 2 new screws improved that issue.

3 - My daughter's bedroom door would not stay shut unless she locked
the deadbolt. I took a file to the strike plate and improved the crap out
of that thing.

I hope she doesn't get evicted.

On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 12:27:04 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 11:42:27 AM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 14 Oct 2015 04:11:26 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

rental home, even though they can be patched.

What does the lease say about modifying the property?

My daughter rents the upstairs of a fairly old house. There is a clause in the lease specifically prohibiting her from "making improvements" to the property.

I had the same clause in my rental agreement leases. Didn't stop the
renter from changing a door he broke. I had to replace the entire door
and jamb, after I evicted him in court and kept his security deposit
money.

I mentioned that the "no improvement" clause was in the lease, but I didn't
say that we adhered to it. ;-)

The day we moved her in I noticed 3 "improvements" that needed to be done
immediately.

1 - The press board bottoms of 3 kitchen drawers were mush. I actually put
my finger right through the bottom of one. A roommate who had moved in a
couple of days earlier put all the utensils on the counter for fear that
everything would fall right through the bottoms of the drawers. The 3
pieces of 1/4" plywood that I cut were a huge improvement.

2 - The knobs and stripped screws from 2 drawers in the bathroom vanity were
inside the drawers. 2 new screws improved that issue.

3 - My daughter's bedroom door would not stay shut unless she locked
the deadbolt. I took a file to the strike plate and improved the crap out
of that thing.

I hope she doesn't get evicted.

Fair enough. Though, I did my own property detailing and detailed for
real estate agents also. Ready for move in condition. Conducted a
"walk-through" with my renters, any possible complaint was addressed
at that time. If there was one I fixed it right away. Never happened.

The guy I evicted was a law enforcement officer, failing to pay his
rent and made modifications to the property. All he had to do was call
me, _for any reason_ and I would have fixed it. That was my
obligation.

Perhaps, not all landlords are not like me grin

On 10/14/2015 2:27 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 11:42:27 AM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
....

I mentioned that the "no improvement" clause was in the lease, but I didn't
say that we adhered to it. ;-)

The day we moved her in I noticed 3 "improvements" that needed to be done
immediately.

....[list of tasks elided for brevity's sake]...

I hope she doesn't get evicted.

I'd say those don't qualify as "improvements" under the terms of the
lease in all likelihood but are repairs.

\pedant mode off

--

On 10/14/2015 3:57 PM, Oren wrote:


Fair enough. Though, I did my own property detailing and detailed for
real estate agents also. Ready for move in condition. Conducted a
"walk-through" with my renters, any possible complaint was addressed
at that time. If there was one I fixed it right away. Never happened.

The guy I evicted was a law enforcement officer, failing to pay his
rent and made modifications to the property. All he had to do was call
me, _for any reason_ and I would have fixed it. That was my
obligation.

Perhaps, not all landlords are not like me grin


Talked to sister. Though the landlord said she can do some remodeling,
she just told me if she ever moves, it'll have to revert back when she
first moved in. Therefore, doing as little as possible to make it a
major issue.

Each rail has just that one spot I need to fasten. I will simply put a
dab of construction adhesive to secure it. Then when she has to remove
it, I told her it'll most likely remove paint, a small patch to fill,
sand, then paint, since she'll have to paint the entire room anyway.

On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 5:01:21 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 10/14/2015 2:27 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, October 14, 2015 at 11:42:27 AM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
...

I mentioned that the "no improvement" clause was in the lease, but I didn't
say that we adhered to it. ;-)

The day we moved her in I noticed 3 "improvements" that needed to be done
immediately.

...[list of tasks elided for brevity's sake]...

I hope she doesn't get evicted.

I'd say those don't qualify as "improvements" under the terms of the
lease in all likelihood but are repairs.

\pedant mode off

--

ducking mode on

If something is broken and a fix is applied, isn't that an improvement over its previous condition?

\duck