First off, don't worry, I plan to hire an electrician since I'm not comfortable messing with the main breaker box. I just want to know about feasibility and difficulty (or ease) of this proposition before making a choice on a new hot tub.

We recently removed our old dead hot tub from our deck. When we got it, we had an electrician install a dedicated 220V, 50 amp circuit. It has a breaker in the breaker box, and another breaker and cut-off switch outside on the side of the house in a separate box - about 10' from the tub. This was done about 5 years ago, so the wiring is pretty new. The tub itself was older and used when we got it, but the price was right (free - plus the cost for moving and wiring). It served us well, but gave up the ghost last year. Now we're looking for a replacement and have been looking at smaller hot tubs. Most of them seem to be of the 110V "Plug-n-play" variety, though they say they do require a 15amp dedicated circuit.

Since the wiring for the old tub is all already there (I think it's 6 gauge, 4 wire) - even though it would be total over-kill, would it be an easy thing to convert this circuit to be a 110V, 15 amp circuit? Basically as simple as putting in new breakers of the appropriate amperage, and adding a receptacle to the end of the wire (previously it was wired directly into the tub)?

Thanks.

-J

"J" wrote in message
...
First off, don't worry, I plan to hire an electrician since I'm not
comfortable messing with the main breaker box. I just want to know about
feasibility and difficulty (or ease) of this proposition before making a
choice on a new hot tub.

We recently removed our old dead hot tub from our deck. When we got it, we
had an electrician install a dedicated 220V, 50 amp circuit. It has a
breaker in the breaker box, and another breaker and cut-off switch outside
on the side of the house in a separate box - about 10' from the tub. This
was done about 5 years ago, so the wiring is pretty new. The tub itself
was older and used when we got it, but the price was right (free - plus the
cost for moving and wiring). It served us well, but gave up the ghost last
year. Now we're looking for a replacement and have been looking at smaller
hot tubs. Most of them seem to be of the 110V "Plug-n-play" variety,
though they say they do require a 15amp dedicated circuit.

Since the wiring for the old tub is all already there (I think it's 6
gauge, 4 wire) - even though it would be total over-kill, would it be an
easy thing to convert this circuit to be a 110V, 15 amp circuit? Basically
as simple as putting in new breakers of the appropriate amperage, and
adding a receptacle to the end of the wire (previously it was wired
directly into the tub)?


Depending on the electrical code, it may be as siimple as replacing the
breaker on the outside box to a 15 amp breaker if it is actually a 4 wire
circuit. The 2 hots, neutral and ground.

On 2015-10-05 12:29 PM, J wrote:
First off, don't worry, I plan to hire an electrician since I'm not comfortable messing with the main breaker box. I just want to know about feasibility and difficulty (or ease) of this proposition before making a choice on a new hot tub.

We recently removed our old dead hot tub from our deck. When we got it, we had an electrician install a dedicated 220V, 50 amp circuit. It has a breaker in the breaker box, and another breaker and cut-off switch outside on the side of the house in a separate box - about 10' from the tub. This was done about 5 years ago, so the wiring is pretty new. The tub itself was older and used when we got it, but the price was right (free - plus the cost for moving and wiring). It served us well, but gave up the ghost last year. Now we're looking for a replacement and have been looking at smaller hot tubs. Most of them seem to be of the 110V "Plug-n-play" variety, though they say they do require a 15amp dedicated circuit.

Since the wiring for the old tub is all already there (I think it's 6 gauge, 4 wire) - even though it would be total over-kill, would it be an easy thing to convert this circuit to be a 110V, 15 amp circuit? Basically as simple as putting in new breakers of the appropriate amperage, and adding a receptacle to the end of the wire (previously it was wired directly into the tub)?

It is trivial, hardest part will be getting the 6 gauge onto a standard
receptacle.

--
Froz...

Quando omni flunkus, moritati

FrozenNorth writes:
On 2015-10-05 12:29 PM, J wrote:
First off, don't worry, I plan to hire an electrician since I'm not comfortable messing with the main breaker box. I just want to know about feasibility and difficulty (or ease) of this proposition before making a choice on a new hot tub.

We recently removed our old dead hot tub from our deck. When we got it, we had an electrician install a dedicated 220V, 50 amp circuit. It has a breaker in the breaker box, and another breaker and cut-off switch outside on the side of the house in a separate box - about 10' from the tub. This was done about 5 years ago, so the wiring is pretty new. The tub itself was older and used when we got it, but the price was right (free - plus the cost for moving and wiring). It served us well, but gave up the ghost last year. Now we're looking for a replacement and have been looking at smaller hot tubs. Most of them seem to be of the 110V "Plug-n-play" variety, though they say they do require a 15amp dedicated circuit.

Since the wiring for the old tub is all already there (I think it's 6 gauge, 4 wire) - even though it would be total over-kill, would it be an easy thing to convert this circuit to be a 110V, 15 amp circuit? Basically as simple as putting in new breakers of the appropriate amperage, and adding a receptacle to the end of the wire (previously it was wired directly into the tub)?

It is trivial, hardest part will be getting the 6 gauge onto a standard
receptacle.

For which a split-bolt pigtail is the best solution.

What those guys were trying to say without a lot of success is that it should be an easy, relatively inexpensive job, and take an experienced electrician less than 30 minutes to do.

On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 09:29:24 -0700 (PDT), J wrote:

First off, don't worry, I plan to hire an electrician since I'm not comfortable messing with the main breaker box. I just want to know about feasibility and difficulty (or ease) of this proposition before making a choice on a new hot tub.

We recently removed our old dead hot tub from our deck. When we got it, we had an electrician install a dedicated 220V, 50 amp circuit. It has a breaker in the breaker box, and another breaker and cut-off switch outside on the side of the house in a separate box - about 10' from the tub. This was done about 5 years ago, so the wiring is pretty new. The tub itself was older and used when we got it, but the price was right (free - plus the cost for moving and wiring). It served us well, but gave up the ghost last year. Now we're looking for a replacement and have been looking at smaller hot tubs. Most of them seem to be of the 110V "Plug-n-play" variety, though they say they do require a 15amp dedicated circuit.

Since the wiring for the old tub is all already there (I think it's 6 gauge, 4 wire) - even though it would be total over-kill, would it be an easy thing to convert this circuit to be a 110V, 15 amp circuit? Basically as simple as putting in new breakers of the appropriate amperage, and adding a receptacle to the end of the wire (previously it was wired directly into the tub)?

Thanks.

-J

Look into it a little deeper. Most of these tubs can be converted to
240v with the advantage that they heat up 4x faster and you can run
the pump and the heat at the same time.

On 10/5/2015 9:29 AM, J wrote:
First off, don't worry, I plan to hire an electrician since I'm not
comfortable messing with the main breaker box. I just want to know about
feasibility and difficulty (or ease) of this proposition before making a
choice on a new hot tub.

We recently removed our old dead hot tub from our deck. When we got it, we
had an electrician install a dedicated 220V, 50 amp circuit. It has a
breaker in the breaker box, and another breaker and cut-off switch outside
on the side of the house in a separate box - about 10' from the tub. This
was done about 5 years ago, so the wiring is pretty new. The tub itself was
older and used when we got it, but the price was right (free - plus the cost
for moving and wiring). It served us well, but gave up the ghost last year.
Now we're looking for a replacement and have been looking at smaller hot
tubs. Most of them seem to be of the 110V "Plug-n-play" variety, though
they say they do require a 15amp dedicated circuit.

It would have to be a pretty small "load" to get by with just ~1800W
(for pump, blower and heater).

Since the wiring for the old tub is all already there (I think it's 6 gauge,
4 wire) - even though it would be total over-kill, would it be an easy thing
to convert this circuit to be a 110V, 15 amp circuit? Basically as simple
as putting in new breakers of the appropriate amperage, and adding a
receptacle to the end of the wire (previously it was wired directly into the
tub)?

Make the adaptation at the "cut off box" and no one will bat an eyelash.
You can install a smaller breaker, there, and treat it as a subpanel
(one that only feeds a 15A circuit).

Do you have any other things nearby that you'd also want to power?
I.e., that could justify another circuit hanging off that "subpanel"?

Be sure you look into GFCI requirements if they aren't satisfied by the
branch circuit itself.

On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 2:41:05 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
On 10/5/2015 9:29 AM, J wrote:
First off, don't worry, I plan to hire an electrician since I'm not
comfortable messing with the main breaker box. I just want to know about
feasibility and difficulty (or ease) of this proposition before making a
choice on a new hot tub.

We recently removed our old dead hot tub from our deck. When we got it, we
had an electrician install a dedicated 220V, 50 amp circuit. It has a
breaker in the breaker box, and another breaker and cut-off switch outside
on the side of the house in a separate box - about 10' from the tub. This
was done about 5 years ago, so the wiring is pretty new. The tub itself was
older and used when we got it, but the price was right (free - plus the cost
for moving and wiring). It served us well, but gave up the ghost last year.
Now we're looking for a replacement and have been looking at smaller hot
tubs. Most of them seem to be of the 110V "Plug-n-play" variety, though
they say they do require a 15amp dedicated circuit.

It would have to be a pretty small "load" to get by with just ~1800W
(for pump, blower and heater).

Since the wiring for the old tub is all already there (I think it's 6 gauge,
4 wire) - even though it would be total over-kill, would it be an easy thing
to convert this circuit to be a 110V, 15 amp circuit? Basically as simple
as putting in new breakers of the appropriate amperage, and adding a
receptacle to the end of the wire (previously it was wired directly into the
tub)?

Make the adaptation at the "cut off box" and no one will bat an eyelash.
You can install a smaller breaker, there, and treat it as a subpanel
(one that only feeds a 15A circuit).

Do you have any other things nearby that you'd also want to power?
I.e., that could justify another circuit hanging off that "subpanel"?

Be sure you look into GFCI requirements if they aren't satisfied by the
branch circuit itself.

I wonder how much power it takes to run a "Hot Tub Time Machine"? ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Tub Monster

First off, don't worry, I plan to hire an electrician since I'm not comfortable messing with the main breaker box. I just want to know about feasibility and difficulty (or ease) of this proposition before making a choice on a new hot tub.

We recently removed our old dead hot tub from our deck. When we got it, we had an electrician install a dedicated 220V, 50 amp circuit. It has a breaker in the breaker box, and another breaker and cut-off switch outside on the side of the house in a separate box - about 10' from the tub. This was done about 5 years ago, so the wiring is pretty new. The tub itself was older and used when we got it, but the price was right (free - plus the cost for moving and wiring). It served us well, but gave up the ghost last year. Now we're looking for a replacement and have been looking at smaller hot tubs. Most of them seem to be of the 110V "Plug-n-play" variety, though they say they do require a 15amp dedicated circuit.

Since the wiring for the old tub is all already there (I think it's 6 gauge, 4 wire) - even though it would be total over-kill, would it be an easy thing to convert this circuit to be a 110V, 15 amp circuit? Basically as simple as putting in new breakers of the appropriate amperage, and adding a receptacle to the end of the wire (previously it was wired directly into the tub)?


It is doable, but let the electrician make the determination.

The 15 amp plug-in type hot tubs operate a little differently than what you had. Because of the small power supply, the hot tub will only heat water when it is not in use. When you have the jets blowing bubbles, the heater will not operate. This is fine if you don't use the tub for extended periods where the water would cool down while you are in it.

John Grabowski
http://www.MrElectrician.TV

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 14:41:25 -0500, Don Y
wrote:

On 10/5/2015 9:29 AM, J wrote:
First off, don't worry, I plan to hire an electrician since I'm not
comfortable messing with the main breaker box. I just want to know about
feasibility and difficulty (or ease) of this proposition before making a
choice on a new hot tub.

We recently removed our old dead hot tub from our deck. When we got
it, we
had an electrician install a dedicated 220V, 50 amp circuit. It has a
breaker in the breaker box, and another breaker and cut-off switch
outside
on the side of the house in a separate box - about 10' from the tub.
This
was done about 5 years ago, so the wiring is pretty new. The tub
itself was
older and used when we got it, but the price was right (free - plus the
cost
for moving and wiring). It served us well, but gave up the ghost last
year.
Now we're looking for a replacement and have been looking at smaller hot
tubs. Most of them seem to be of the 110V "Plug-n-play" variety, though
they say they do require a 15amp dedicated circuit.

It would have to be a pretty small "load" to get by with just ~1800W
(for pump, blower and heater).

To add to Don's point, my drip coffee maker needs 900 watts or
7.5 amps.
I don't know what a water bed would need for power. That would
probably be a better comparison. The hitch in that comparison
would be an enclosed, blanket insulated bag of water vs. and open tank.

Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 5 Oct 2015 13:14:12 -0700 (PDT), John G
wrote:

First off, don't worry, I plan to hire an electrician since I'm not comfortable messing with the main breaker box. I just want to know about feasibility and difficulty (or ease) of this proposition before making a choice on a new hot tub.

We recently removed our old dead hot tub from our deck. When we got it, we had an electrician install a dedicated 220V, 50 amp circuit. It has a breaker in the breaker box, and another breaker and cut-off switch outside on the side of the house in a separate box - about 10' from the tub. This was done about 5 years ago, so the wiring is pretty new. The tub itself was older and used when we got it, but the price was right (free - plus the cost for moving and wiring). It served us well, but gave up the ghost last year. Now we're looking for a replacement and have been looking at smaller hot tubs. Most of them seem to be of the 110V "Plug-n-play" variety, though they say they do require a 15amp dedicated circuit.

Since the wiring for the old tub is all already there (I think it's 6 gauge, 4 wire) - even though it would be total over-kill, would it be an easy thing to convert this circuit to be a 110V, 15 amp circuit? Basically as simple as putting in new breakers of the appropriate amperage, and adding a receptacle to the end of the wire (previously it was wired directly into the tub)?


It is doable, but let the electrician make the determination.

The 15 amp plug-in type hot tubs operate a little differently than what you had. Because of the small power supply, the hot tub will only heat water when it is not in use. When you have the jets blowing bubbles, the heater will not operate. This is fine if you don't use the tub for extended periods where the water would cool down while you are in it.

When I'm in the bathtub for even 30 minutes, either the water cools off
or it just feels like it has because I've gotten used to it. I have to
keep adding a trickle of hot water.

I was going to measure the temperature to see if it's what changes but I
haven't yet.

John Grabowski
http://www.MrElectrician.TV

On 10/5/2015 10:16 PM, micky wrote:

When I'm in the bathtub for even 30 minutes, either the water cools off
or it just feels like it has because I've gotten used to it. I have to
keep adding a trickle of hot water.

I was going to measure the temperature to see if it's what changes but I
haven't yet.

Probably some of both. Large surface area to give up heat, plus the tub
itself is a big heat sink, but you do get used to the temperature.

On 10/5/2015 6:58 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

It would have to be a pretty small "load" to get by with just ~1800W
(for pump, blower and heater).

To add to Don's point, my drip coffee maker needs 900 watts or
7.5 amps.
I don't know what a water bed would need for power. That would
probably be a better comparison. The hitch in that comparison
would be an enclosed, blanket insulated bag of water vs. and open tank.

And, do you want to leave that tub *heated* 24/7 just so it is
"up to temperature" when you decided to use it? You can arrange
for the heat to be switched on before you are *likely* to want
to use it -- but, if it takes a long time to get up to temperature,
you risk heating water for a long time -- only to NOT use it.

[By contrast, a higher capacity heater will let you postpone
that decision until you're reasonably sure you want to use it]

In places with high cooling loads, you can purchase a heat exchanger
to harvest "waste heat" from your ACbrrr and redirect this to heat your
pool, hot tub, etc. Thermostatic controlled so you don't end up
feeling like a boiled lobster (if your cooling load is considerably
larger than your hot tub "heating load").

No idea as to installed cost but sure looks like a clever idea!

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:33:29 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 10/5/2015 6:58 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

It would have to be a pretty small "load" to get by with just ~1800W
(for pump, blower and heater).

To add to Don's point, my drip coffee maker needs 900 watts or
7.5 amps.
I don't know what a water bed would need for power. That would
probably be a better comparison. The hitch in that comparison
would be an enclosed, blanket insulated bag of water vs. and open tank.

And, do you want to leave that tub *heated* 24/7 just so it is
"up to temperature" when you decided to use it? You can arrange
for the heat to be switched on before you are *likely* to want
to use it -- but, if it takes a long time to get up to temperature,
you risk heating water for a long time -- only to NOT use it.

[By contrast, a higher capacity heater will let you postpone
that decision until you're reasonably sure you want to use it]

In places with high cooling loads, you can purchase a heat exchanger
to harvest "waste heat" from your ACbrrr and redirect this to heat your
pool, hot tub, etc. Thermostatic controlled so you don't end up
feeling like a boiled lobster (if your cooling load is considerably
larger than your hot tub "heating load").

No idea as to installed cost but sure looks like a clever idea!

The problem is you tend to use a hot tub when it is cool enough
outside where the A/C is not on.

I found solar collectors work well tho. If you are really up there in
the frozen north you may need glazed collectors instead of the regular
open pool collector like I can use.
I can get my tub about 15-20 degrees warmer than ambient air for free
tho during the day and that is a nice head start before I turn the
heat on.

On 10/5/2015 9:42 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:33:29 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

In places with high cooling loads, you can purchase a heat exchanger
to harvest "waste heat" from your ACbrrr and redirect this to heat your
pool, hot tub, etc. Thermostatic controlled so you don't end up
feeling like a boiled lobster (if your cooling load is considerably
larger than your hot tub "heating load").

No idea as to installed cost but sure looks like a clever idea!

The problem is you tend to use a hot tub when it is cool enough
outside where the A/C is not on.

That depends on where you live! : Here, it's rarely cool enough
to NOT have (or want) the ACbrrr to be on!

I found solar collectors work well tho. If you are really up there in
the frozen north you may need glazed collectors instead of the regular
open pool collector like I can use.
I can get my tub about 15-20 degrees warmer than ambient air for free
tho during the day and that is a nice head start before I turn the
heat on.

A "bubble wrap" cover (i.e., just small pockets of trapped air) on a
swimming pool, here will typically bring the water temperature up to
105+F essentially "for free" (trap any captured heat so it isn't
lost overnight when ambient temps drop to 90's)

Many folks have hundreds of feet of black tubing coiled on their
roofs as "poor man's pool heaters". I don't think I know anyone who
actually burns energy to heat their pool (though a friend in Chicago
used natural gas to heat his indoor pool -- no other practical
options in that climate)

OTOH, I think folks *do* actively heat their hot tubs/spas -- perhaps
because many of those are in covered structures and can't benefit from
direct solar.

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 22:02:24 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

That depends on where you live! : Here, it's rarely cool enough
to NOT have (or want) the ACbrrr to be on!

Sounds like Arizona. ;-)

Here in Florida we relish the days when you can open the windows
(Nov-Mar) and the hot tub feels good about the same time. In the
summer it is just swapping water with the pool and not really used at
all.

On 10/5/2015 10:47 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 22:02:24 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

That depends on where you live! : Here, it's rarely cool enough
to NOT have (or want) the ACbrrr to be on!

Sounds like Arizona. ;-)

Here in Florida we relish the days when you can open the windows
(Nov-Mar) and the hot tub feels good about the same time. In the
summer it is just swapping water with the pool and not really used at
all.

I don't think I know anyone with the "combination" hot-tub/pool
configuration. People tend to either have pools or hot tubs but
not usually both.

There is also a downside of using them in the hottest portions of
the year because those also tend to be the driest. It is not
uncommon to get out of a pool and find yourself enveloped in a
cloud of "steam" -- as all of the water on your body evaporates
quickly (which usually leaves you *freezing* cold -- even in 110F
temperatures stepping out of 105F water!). So, the humid parts
of summer (i.e., Monsoon) tend to be more comfortable *in* the
water.

We've considered purchasing an "infinite pool" to get the advantages
of a pool (exercise) and hot tub (soaks) -- without losing all
that land (and water!) to the alternative.

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 23:09:43 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 10/5/2015 10:47 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 22:02:24 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

That depends on where you live! : Here, it's rarely cool enough
to NOT have (or want) the ACbrrr to be on!

Sounds like Arizona. ;-)

Here in Florida we relish the days when you can open the windows
(Nov-Mar) and the hot tub feels good about the same time. In the
summer it is just swapping water with the pool and not really used at
all.

I don't think I know anyone with the "combination" hot-tub/pool
configuration. People tend to either have pools or hot tubs but
not usually both.

There is also a downside of using them in the hottest portions of
the year because those also tend to be the driest. It is not
uncommon to get out of a pool and find yourself enveloped in a
cloud of "steam" -- as all of the water on your body evaporates
quickly (which usually leaves you *freezing* cold -- even in 110F
temperatures stepping out of 105F water!). So, the humid parts
of summer (i.e., Monsoon) tend to be more comfortable *in* the
water.

We've considered purchasing an "infinite pool" to get the advantages
of a pool (exercise) and hot tub (soaks) -- without losing all
that land (and water!) to the alternative.


Different strokes I guess.

When the humidity is in the 80s, evaporation is not an issue but I
have been out there and I know what you are talking about.

My pool and spa are not a combo unit, they are about 50 feet apart.
There is just a common pipe that connects the spa overflow to the pool
suction via the vent and another valve that bleeds off a little pool
return water into the spa.

On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 09:29:24 -0700 (PDT), J wrote in


Since the wiring for the old tub is all already there (I think it's 6 gauge, 4 wire) - even though it would be total over-kill, would it be an easy thing to convert this circuit to be a 110V, 15 amp circuit? Basically as simple as putting in new breakers of the appropriate amperage, and adding a receptacle to the end of the wire (previously it was wired directly into the tub)?

After the 220v/50A hot tub, you will be very disappointed in the 110V
models. They are very wimpy. Since you already have the wiring, I
suggest sticking with the 220v models.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

"Dean Hoffman" writes:

I don't know what a water bed would need for power. That would
probably be a better comparison.

300W to 500W depending on the heater. As the water in the water bed
isn't being constantly replaced by ground temperature water or being
lost to evaporation and given reasonably insulating bedding, the
waterbed heater doesn't need to be high power.

On Monday, October 5, 2015 at 4:14:21 PM UTC-4,

The 15 amp plug-in type hot tubs operate a little differently than what you had. Because of the small power supply, the hot tub will only heat water when it is not in use. When you have the jets blowing bubbles, the heater will not operate. This is fine if you don't use the tub for extended periods where the water would cool down while you are in it.

John Grabowski
http://www.MrElectrician.TV

+1

My first spa, I made that mistake too. When I found out the disadvantages
it was still new, so I got the company to switch out the controller pack
for a 240V one.

To summarize, there are two issues:
First is what John pointed out, that the heater will not heat while the
pump is on high and the blower is going. That may not be so bad, because
usually you're not going to be in it long enough for the water to cool
down much. But it does mean that whatever temp it's at when you get in,
it's only going down.

Second is what GFRE pointed out, that at 240V it will heat at 4X the
rate as 120V. To me, that makes a big difference, especially in one
that is outside. I keep mine at the lowest temp, 50F, which obviously
saves a lot of energy in the winter. When I'm going to use it, I turn
it up. It still takes a few hours to get to 100F. It would take 4x
that with 120V, meaning you'd have to plan a long way in advance.
Or you could keep it on a timer, but I don't use mine that regularly.

Another factor is from what I've seen, the 120V ones are limited to
very small ones. I think if you're getting one, it doesn't cost all
that much more to get a bigger/better one.

If he really wants 120V, then converting that circuit over isn't a
big deal.

On 10/6/2015 5:55 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 23:09:43 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 10/5/2015 10:47 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 22:02:24 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

That depends on where you live! : Here, it's rarely cool enough
to NOT have (or want) the ACbrrr to be on!

Sounds like Arizona. ;-)

Here in Florida we relish the days when you can open the windows
(Nov-Mar) and the hot tub feels good about the same time. In the
summer it is just swapping water with the pool and not really used at
all.

I don't think I know anyone with the "combination" hot-tub/pool
configuration. People tend to either have pools or hot tubs but
not usually both.

There is also a downside of using them in the hottest portions of
the year because those also tend to be the driest. It is not
uncommon to get out of a pool and find yourself enveloped in a
cloud of "steam" -- as all of the water on your body evaporates
quickly (which usually leaves you *freezing* cold -- even in 110F
temperatures stepping out of 105F water!). So, the humid parts
of summer (i.e., Monsoon) tend to be more comfortable *in* the
water.

We've considered purchasing an "infinite pool" to get the advantages
of a pool (exercise) and hot tub (soaks) -- without losing all
that land (and water!) to the alternative.


Different strokes I guess.

When the humidity is in the 80s, evaporation is not an issue but I
have been out there and I know what you are talking about.

Moving here was the first time I ever encountered that sort of
evaporative cooling! Getting out of a pool typically just left
you *wet*. No big deal to get out and walk around to some
other point and reenter. Or, sip a beverage, etc.

Here, getting out was like stepping directly into a FREEZER!
A completely unexpected experience. Drove home the principle
of evaporative cooling (perspiration, etc.) in a way that a text book
could NEVER explain!

My pool and spa are not a combo unit, they are about 50 feet apart.
There is just a common pipe that connects the spa overflow to the pool
suction via the vent and another valve that bleeds off a little pool
return water into the spa.

Ah! I've only ever seen the spa as a sort of "wading pool" attached
to the "real pool" (different pump/filtration/heater). So, you "soak"
(heat soak) in the spa, then slide over a little dividing wall into
the pool (which is typically much cooler)

Thanks for all the replies. It'll take me a while to look through them all, but I got the answer I was hoping for pretty quick. So thanks. I love this group!

Some of the hot tubs I was looking at that come as 120v plug-n-play can also be purchased as 240v (hard-wiring required, with a more powerful heater and maybe some other additions - for an extra price). Other tubs appear to be sold as 120v only. My personal preference is to pay the extra $$ for a 240 model, but I did not want to be constrained when looking at tub, so it's nice to know that the wiring should be simple for an electrician.

As for converting a 120v to run on 240v, I guess you could do it if you made sure all the components could handle that, but I wouldn't want to risk it.. For the tubs that I was looking at that come in both flavors, they often say that you if you have the 240v model, you can easily rewire it to run on 120v (but clearly, if you did that, you wouldn't be making use of the beefed up heater element that you payed extra for). However, the reverse is generally not true; you can't convert the 120v model to run on 240 - at least that's what the manual says.

Cheers.

On Tuesday, October 6, 2015 at 12:25:54 PM UTC-4, J wrote:
Thanks for all the replies. It'll take me a while to look through them all, but I got the answer I was hoping for pretty quick. So thanks. I love this group!

Some of the hot tubs I was looking at that come as 120v plug-n-play can also be purchased as 240v (hard-wiring required, with a more powerful heater and maybe some other additions - for an extra price). Other tubs appear to be sold as 120v only. My personal preference is to pay the extra $$ for a 240 model, but I did not want to be constrained when looking at tub, so it's nice to know that the wiring should be simple for an electrician.

As for converting a 120v to run on 240v, I guess you could do it if you made sure all the components could handle that, but I wouldn't want to risk it. For the tubs that I was looking at that come in both flavors, they often say that you if you have the 240v model, you can easily rewire it to run on 120v (but clearly, if you did that, you wouldn't be making use of the beefed up heater element that you payed extra for). However, the reverse is generally not true; you can't convert the 120v model to run on 240 - at least that's what the manual says.

Cheers.

I'm not sure there is actually a beefed up heater element at all. I
think it's the same element, they just put 240V across it instead of 120V.
It's fully surrounded in moving water, the temp rises across it's not much.

On Tue, 06 Oct 2015 06:59:37 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 10/6/2015 5:55 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 23:09:43 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 10/5/2015 10:47 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 22:02:24 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

That depends on where you live! : Here, it's rarely cool enough
to NOT have (or want) the ACbrrr to be on!

Sounds like Arizona. ;-)

Here in Florida we relish the days when you can open the windows
(Nov-Mar) and the hot tub feels good about the same time. In the
summer it is just swapping water with the pool and not really used at
all.

I don't think I know anyone with the "combination" hot-tub/pool
configuration. People tend to either have pools or hot tubs but
not usually both.

There is also a downside of using them in the hottest portions of
the year because those also tend to be the driest. It is not
uncommon to get out of a pool and find yourself enveloped in a
cloud of "steam" -- as all of the water on your body evaporates
quickly (which usually leaves you *freezing* cold -- even in 110F
temperatures stepping out of 105F water!). So, the humid parts
of summer (i.e., Monsoon) tend to be more comfortable *in* the
water.

We've considered purchasing an "infinite pool" to get the advantages
of a pool (exercise) and hot tub (soaks) -- without losing all
that land (and water!) to the alternative.


Different strokes I guess.

When the humidity is in the 80s, evaporation is not an issue but I
have been out there and I know what you are talking about.

Moving here was the first time I ever encountered that sort of
evaporative cooling! Getting out of a pool typically just left
you *wet*. No big deal to get out and walk around to some
other point and reenter. Or, sip a beverage, etc.

Here, getting out was like stepping directly into a FREEZER!
A completely unexpected experience. Drove home the principle
of evaporative cooling (perspiration, etc.) in a way that a text book
could NEVER explain!


I always thought it was ironic that they call those evaporative
cooling units "swamp coolers" and they don't work at all here in the
swamp
They should be called desert coolers.

My pool and spa are not a combo unit, they are about 50 feet apart.
There is just a common pipe that connects the spa overflow to the pool
suction via the vent and another valve that bleeds off a little pool
return water into the spa.

Ah! I've only ever seen the spa as a sort of "wading pool" attached
to the "real pool" (different pump/filtration/heater). So, you "soak"
(heat soak) in the spa, then slide over a little dividing wall into
the pool (which is typically much cooler)


That is the normal design (called a spill over spa).
My spa was already built, up next to the bedroom when we built the
pool out in the yard. The code required a "vent" to prevent entrapment
(basically a pipe from the main drain to the atmosphere)
I "teed" off of that, ran a pipe to the overflow pipe from the spa and
had a way of swapping water.
It did involve a 25 foot directional bore under the garage but that
worked out OK using the garden hose method

On Tue, 06 Oct 2015 13:17:21 -0400, wrote:
Snipp

I always thought it was ironic that they call those evaporative
cooling units "swamp coolers" and they don't work at all here in the
swamp
They should be called desert coolers.

They call them swamp coolers because they turn anything short of a
desert into a swamp

On Tue, 06 Oct 2015 20:05:53 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 06 Oct 2015 13:17:21 -0400, wrote:
Snipp

I always thought it was ironic that they call those evaporative
cooling units "swamp coolers" and they don't work at all here in the
swamp
They should be called desert coolers.

They call them swamp coolers because they turn anything short of a
desert into a swamp


They put humidity into the desert hot air, cooling the skin. They
pretty much fail to work when humidity reaches ~40 - 45%. Then it
feels like a swamp.

Cheaper than AC, but they need plenty of maintenance -- filters
cleaned, pumps, etc. of hard water minerals. Portable/wheeled units
are used in shops and garages.

On Wed, 07 Oct 2015 10:14:07 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Tue, 06 Oct 2015 20:05:53 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 06 Oct 2015 13:17:21 -0400, wrote:
Snipp

I always thought it was ironic that they call those evaporative
cooling units "swamp coolers" and they don't work at all here in the
swamp
They should be called desert coolers.

They call them swamp coolers because they turn anything short of a
desert into a swamp


They put humidity into the desert hot air, cooling the skin. They
pretty much fail to work when humidity reaches ~40 - 45%. Then it
feels like a swamp.

Cheaper than AC, but they need plenty of maintenance -- filters
cleaned, pumps, etc. of hard water minerals. Portable/wheeled units
are used in shops and garages.
Up here there use is pretty well restricted to "cooling stations" at
summer public events.

On Wed, 07 Oct 2015 16:08:24 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 07 Oct 2015 10:14:07 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Tue, 06 Oct 2015 20:05:53 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 06 Oct 2015 13:17:21 -0400, wrote:
Snipp

I always thought it was ironic that they call those evaporative
cooling units "swamp coolers" and they don't work at all here in the
swamp
They should be called desert coolers.

They call them swamp coolers because they turn anything short of a
desert into a swamp


They put humidity into the desert hot air, cooling the skin. They
pretty much fail to work when humidity reaches ~40 - 45%. Then it
feels like a swamp.

Cheaper than AC, but they need plenty of maintenance -- filters
cleaned, pumps, etc. of hard water minerals. Portable/wheeled units
are used in shops and garages.

Up here there use is pretty well restricted to "cooling stations" at
summer public events.

They get used by military units in War zones in the desert. too.

On Wed, 07 Oct 2015 10:14:07 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Tue, 06 Oct 2015 20:05:53 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 06 Oct 2015 13:17:21 -0400, wrote:
Snipp

I always thought it was ironic that they call those evaporative
cooling units "swamp coolers" and they don't work at all here in the
swamp
They should be called desert coolers.

They call them swamp coolers because they turn anything short of a
desert into a swamp


They put humidity into the desert hot air, cooling the skin. They
pretty much fail to work when humidity reaches ~40 - 45%. Then it
feels like a swamp.

Cheaper than AC, but they need plenty of maintenance -- filters
cleaned, pumps, etc. of hard water minerals. Portable/wheeled units
are used in shops and garages.

When I was there in 1980 the big gripe was that the developer at
Havasu had an air conditioned beach and it was screwing up the
humidity in the whole town.

On 10/07/2015 12:14 PM, Oren wrote:

[snip]

They put humidity into the desert hot air, cooling the skin. They
pretty much fail to work when humidity reaches ~40 - 45%. Then it
feels like a swamp.

Cheaper than AC, but they need plenty of maintenance -- filters
cleaned, pumps, etc. of hard water minerals. Portable/wheeled units
are used in shops and garages.


My grandparents had one, and almost never used it. Maybe that's because
here we usually have high humidity in the summer.

--
79 days until the winter celebration (Friday December 25, 2015 12:00:00
AM for 1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

Whoever wants to be a Christian should tear the eyes out of his Reason."
[Martin Luther]

On 10/7/2015 10:14 AM, Oren wrote:

They call them swamp coolers because they turn anything short of a
desert into a swamp

They put humidity into the desert hot air, cooling the skin. They
pretty much fail to work when humidity reaches ~40 - 45%. Then it
feels like a swamp.

Cheaper than AC, but they need plenty of maintenance -- filters
cleaned, pumps, etc. of hard water minerals. Portable/wheeled units
are used in shops and garages.

They are *delightful* during the dry part of Summer. It feels better
than ACbrrr at an equivalent temperature.

But, they are hard to "adjust" to ensure moisture doesn't build up
in the residence.

Then, if you try to use *dual* cooling (ACbrrr), you spend energy pulling
that moisture *out* of the residence.

Lastly, they are not intuitive to control. It's not like an ACbrrr
where you can just turn the thermostat to your desired setting.
For a given RH and temperature (i.e., dewpoint) there is only so
mch water that the air can absorb, only so much cooling that
you can obtain with this mechanism. Once you get to that point,
any further increases in outdoor temperature *or* RH will be directly
reflected to the interior temperature/comfort level -- regardless of
how "low" you set the controls!