Well , as they say , no battle survives contact with the enemy intact ... I
was pricing block vs poured concrete today , with the mistaken expression
that block would be cheaper - what a surprise , concrete is half the cost
for materials only . Well , actually less than half . because I'm getting
the floor too for just over half .
Anyway , and this would come up with block too , I want to apply a
waterproofing to the portions of the poured walls that will be below grade .
I'm seeing crystalline type sealers , and know nothing of the technology .
Any of y'all have experience with this stuff ? Is it cost effective ? I was
ready to apply a coat of asphalt emulsion/felt/emulsion , not knowing about
this other stuff .

--
Snag

On 09/15/2015 07:24 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Well , as they say , no battle survives contact with the enemy intact ... I
was pricing block vs poured concrete today , with the mistaken expression
that block would be cheaper - what a surprise , concrete is half the cost
for materials only . Well , actually less than half . because I'm getting
the floor too for just over half .

Are you figuring in the forms? I worked on a volunteer project where the
guy in charge tried to cheap out and build forms out of scrap laying
around the site. He got a floor too when the forms let go. We weren't
prepared to strike it off, so it set up lumpy.

On 9/15/2015 9:37 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 09/15/2015 07:24 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Well , as they say , no battle survives contact with the enemy intact
... I
was pricing block vs poured concrete today , with the mistaken expression
that block would be cheaper - what a surprise , concrete is half the cost
for materials only . Well , actually less than half . because I'm getting
the floor too for just over half .

Are you figuring in the forms? I worked on a volunteer project where the
guy in charge tried to cheap out and build forms out of scrap laying
around the site. He got a floor too when the forms let go. We weren't
prepared to strike it off, so it set up lumpy.

I'd use ICFs (Insulating Concrete Forms) and have a poured foundation
already well insulated. Something like www.standardicf.net

rbowman wrote:
On 09/15/2015 07:24 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Well , as they say , no battle survives contact with the enemy
intact ... I was pricing block vs poured concrete today , with the
mistaken expression that block would be cheaper - what a surprise ,
concrete is half the cost for materials only . Well , actually less
than half . because I'm getting the floor too for just over half .

Are you figuring in the forms? I worked on a volunteer project where
the guy in charge tried to cheap out and build forms out of scrap
laying around the site. He got a floor too when the forms let go. We
weren't prepared to strike it off, so it set up lumpy.

I'm researching using some 7/16 OSB , then reusing it for exterior
sheathing or maybe on the roof . Question there is what to use as a release
agent . Diesel has been suggested but not sure if the odor will be a problem
later . Floor will be poured first as a monolithic (?) slab with the
footings integrated into the slab . I also plan to use a poly vapor barrier
under the slab , thickness is yet to be decided .

--
Snag

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/15/2015 9:37 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 09/15/2015 07:24 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Well , as they say , no battle survives contact with the enemy
intact ... I
was pricing block vs poured concrete today , with the mistaken
expression that block would be cheaper - what a surprise , concrete
is half the cost for materials only . Well , actually less than
half . because I'm getting the floor too for just over half .

Are you figuring in the forms? I worked on a volunteer project where
the guy in charge tried to cheap out and build forms out of scrap
laying around the site. He got a floor too when the forms let go. We
weren't prepared to strike it off, so it set up lumpy.

I'd use ICFs (Insulating Concrete Forms) and have a poured foundation
already well insulated. Something like www.standardicf.net

I'm not sure that's cost-effective here . It just doesn't get that cold
for that long . Exterior walls will be native stone with 1" foam behind it .
Not sure if I was clear , this cellar will be 10 x 16 under a 24 x 24
kitchen . There will be a pretty big crawl space which I might just use to
grow mushrooms ...
--
Snag

On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 9:11:00 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/15/2015 9:37 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 09/15/2015 07:24 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Well , as they say , no battle survives contact with the enemy intact
... I
was pricing block vs poured concrete today , with the mistaken expression
that block would be cheaper - what a surprise , concrete is half the cost
for materials only . Well , actually less than half . because I'm getting
the floor too for just over half .

Are you figuring in the forms? I worked on a volunteer project where the
guy in charge tried to cheap out and build forms out of scrap laying
around the site. He got a floor too when the forms let go. We weren't
prepared to strike it off, so it set up lumpy.

I'd use ICFs (Insulating Concrete Forms) and have a poured foundation
already well insulated. Something like www.standardicf.net

That stuff is so cool(no pun). ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Concrete Monster

On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 21:24:15 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

rbowman wrote:
On 09/15/2015 07:24 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Well , as they say , no battle survives contact with the enemy
intact ... I was pricing block vs poured concrete today , with the
mistaken expression that block would be cheaper - what a surprise ,
concrete is half the cost for materials only . Well , actually less
than half . because I'm getting the floor too for just over half .

Are you figuring in the forms? I worked on a volunteer project where
the guy in charge tried to cheap out and build forms out of scrap
laying around the site. He got a floor too when the forms let go. We
weren't prepared to strike it off, so it set up lumpy.

I'm researching using some 7/16 OSB , then reusing it for exterior
sheathing or maybe on the roof . Question there is what to use as a release
agent . Diesel has been suggested but not sure if the odor will be a problem
later . Floor will be poured first as a monolithic (?) slab with the
footings integrated into the slab . I also plan to use a poly vapor barrier
under the slab , thickness is yet to be decided .

Florida is the land of the monoslab. Be sure to leave the footer part
of the slab free of the visqueen so you can use it as a Ufer electrode
and tie this into the ground electrode system.
If you are using a contractor to pour the walls, they will have the
forms. They usually use a commercial product for the release agent,
designed for the form material they use.

wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 21:24:15 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

rbowman wrote:
On 09/15/2015 07:24 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Well , as they say , no battle survives contact with the enemy
intact ... I was pricing block vs poured concrete today , with the
mistaken expression that block would be cheaper - what a surprise ,
concrete is half the cost for materials only . Well , actually less
than half . because I'm getting the floor too for just over half .

Are you figuring in the forms? I worked on a volunteer project where
the guy in charge tried to cheap out and build forms out of scrap
laying around the site. He got a floor too when the forms let go. We
weren't prepared to strike it off, so it set up lumpy.

I'm researching using some 7/16 OSB , then reusing it for exterior
sheathing or maybe on the roof . Question there is what to use as a
release agent . Diesel has been suggested but not sure if the odor
will be a problem later . Floor will be poured first as a
monolithic (?) slab with the footings integrated into the slab . I
also plan to use a poly vapor barrier under the slab , thickness is
yet to be decided .

Florida is the land of the monoslab. Be sure to leave the footer part
of the slab free of the visqueen so you can use it as a Ufer electrode
and tie this into the ground electrode system.
If you are using a contractor to pour the walls, they will have the
forms. They usually use a commercial product for the release agent,
designed for the form material they use.

I've done a bit more research , found that the walls will cost about the
same either way . I was thinking of going with 4" walls , found that 6" is
the minimum recommended . That makes the cost so close that it's actually
going to be easier to do the block . Also , doing block means I don't have
to do a marathon mix-n-pour . I'm probably being too anal about controlling
costs , have to keep reminding myself that a dollar spent now will probably
save 3 later .

--
Snag

On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 10:46:52 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

I've done a bit more research , found that the walls will cost about the
same either way . I was thinking of going with 4" walls , found that 6" is
the minimum recommended . That makes the cost so close that it's actually
going to be easier to do the block . Also , doing block means I don't have
to do a marathon mix-n-pour . I'm probably being too anal about controlling
costs , have to keep reminding myself that a dollar spent now will probably
save 3 later .

Maybe you can fill the block cores with vertical rebar and cement.

Perhaps a French drain around the perimeter (perforated pipe & stone)?

Saw a monolithic basement pour some years ago. French drain, coated
walls with some type of moisture membrane added. My guess it was for
the "100 year flood". The water table is ~250' in the Mohave Desert

On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 10:46:52 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 21:24:15 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

rbowman wrote:
On 09/15/2015 07:24 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Well , as they say , no battle survives contact with the enemy
intact ... I was pricing block vs poured concrete today , with the
mistaken expression that block would be cheaper - what a surprise ,
concrete is half the cost for materials only . Well , actually less
than half . because I'm getting the floor too for just over half .

Are you figuring in the forms? I worked on a volunteer project where
the guy in charge tried to cheap out and build forms out of scrap
laying around the site. He got a floor too when the forms let go. We
weren't prepared to strike it off, so it set up lumpy.

I'm researching using some 7/16 OSB , then reusing it for exterior
sheathing or maybe on the roof . Question there is what to use as a
release agent . Diesel has been suggested but not sure if the odor
will be a problem later . Floor will be poured first as a
monolithic (?) slab with the footings integrated into the slab . I
also plan to use a poly vapor barrier under the slab , thickness is
yet to be decided .

Florida is the land of the monoslab. Be sure to leave the footer part
of the slab free of the visqueen so you can use it as a Ufer electrode
and tie this into the ground electrode system.
If you are using a contractor to pour the walls, they will have the
forms. They usually use a commercial product for the release agent,
designed for the form material they use.

I've done a bit more research , found that the walls will cost about the
same either way . I was thinking of going with 4" walls , found that 6" is
the minimum recommended . That makes the cost so close that it's actually
going to be easier to do the block . Also , doing block means I don't have
to do a marathon mix-n-pour . I'm probably being too anal about controlling
costs , have to keep reminding myself that a dollar spent now will probably
save 3 later .

There is no way you can "mix and pour" that much concrete cheaper than
just getting a chain of redi mix trucks and a pump. This won't even be
a long day. It will be about 54 sq/ft of wall per yard at 6".
You usually get 10 yards on a truck.

wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 10:46:52 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 21:24:15 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

rbowman wrote:
On 09/15/2015 07:24 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Well , as they say , no battle survives contact with the enemy
intact ... I was pricing block vs poured concrete today , with
the mistaken expression that block would be cheaper - what a
surprise , concrete is half the cost for materials only . Well ,
actually less than half . because I'm getting the floor too for
just over half .

Are you figuring in the forms? I worked on a volunteer project
where the guy in charge tried to cheap out and build forms out of
scrap laying around the site. He got a floor too when the forms
let go. We weren't prepared to strike it off, so it set up lumpy.

I'm researching using some 7/16 OSB , then reusing it for exterior
sheathing or maybe on the roof . Question there is what to use as a
release agent . Diesel has been suggested but not sure if the odor
will be a problem later . Floor will be poured first as a
monolithic (?) slab with the footings integrated into the slab . I
also plan to use a poly vapor barrier under the slab , thickness is
yet to be decided .

Florida is the land of the monoslab. Be sure to leave the footer
part of the slab free of the visqueen so you can use it as a Ufer
electrode and tie this into the ground electrode system.
If you are using a contractor to pour the walls, they will have the
forms. They usually use a commercial product for the release agent,
designed for the form material they use.

I've done a bit more research , found that the walls will cost
about the same either way . I was thinking of going with 4" walls ,
found that 6" is the minimum recommended . That makes the cost so
close that it's actually going to be easier to do the block . Also ,
doing block means I don't have to do a marathon mix-n-pour . I'm
probably being too anal about controlling costs , have to keep
reminding myself that a dollar spent now will probably save 3 later .

There is no way you can "mix and pour" that much concrete cheaper than
just getting a chain of redi mix trucks and a pump. This won't even be
a long day. It will be about 54 sq/ft of wall per yard at 6".
You usually get 10 yards on a truck.

The problem is that this is a small community and the local redimix
doesn't HAVE a pumper . Due to the location , no way to get a truck close
enough and I'm sure as hell not going to move 6 1/2 yards on concrete in a
wheelbarrow . Turns out that total cost for materials is pretty much a push
either way , and blocks will be easier for me in this case .
As Oren suggested , there will be some of the spaces filled with concrete
and reinforced with rebar . Moisture intrusion shouldn't be a problem as
long as the landscaping profile directs runoff away from the house . I plan
on waterproofing of some type for that portion that will be below grade ,
about half the total wall area .
--
Snag

On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 13:18:51 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 10:46:52 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 21:24:15 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

rbowman wrote:
On 09/15/2015 07:24 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Well , as they say , no battle survives contact with the enemy
intact ... I was pricing block vs poured concrete today , with
the mistaken expression that block would be cheaper - what a
surprise , concrete is half the cost for materials only . Well ,
actually less than half . because I'm getting the floor too for
just over half .

Are you figuring in the forms? I worked on a volunteer project
where the guy in charge tried to cheap out and build forms out of
scrap laying around the site. He got a floor too when the forms
let go. We weren't prepared to strike it off, so it set up lumpy.

I'm researching using some 7/16 OSB , then reusing it for exterior
sheathing or maybe on the roof . Question there is what to use as a
release agent . Diesel has been suggested but not sure if the odor
will be a problem later . Floor will be poured first as a
monolithic (?) slab with the footings integrated into the slab . I
also plan to use a poly vapor barrier under the slab , thickness is
yet to be decided .

Florida is the land of the monoslab. Be sure to leave the footer
part of the slab free of the visqueen so you can use it as a Ufer
electrode and tie this into the ground electrode system.
If you are using a contractor to pour the walls, they will have the
forms. They usually use a commercial product for the release agent,
designed for the form material they use.

I've done a bit more research , found that the walls will cost
about the same either way . I was thinking of going with 4" walls ,
found that 6" is the minimum recommended . That makes the cost so
close that it's actually going to be easier to do the block . Also ,
doing block means I don't have to do a marathon mix-n-pour . I'm
probably being too anal about controlling costs , have to keep
reminding myself that a dollar spent now will probably save 3 later .

There is no way you can "mix and pour" that much concrete cheaper than
just getting a chain of redi mix trucks and a pump. This won't even be
a long day. It will be about 54 sq/ft of wall per yard at 6".
You usually get 10 yards on a truck.

The problem is that this is a small community and the local redimix
doesn't HAVE a pumper . Due to the location , no way to get a truck close
enough and I'm sure as hell not going to move 6 1/2 yards on concrete in a
wheelbarrow . Turns out that total cost for materials is pretty much a push
either way , and blocks will be easier for me in this case .
As Oren suggested , there will be some of the spaces filled with concrete
and reinforced with rebar . Moisture intrusion shouldn't be a problem as
long as the landscaping profile directs runoff away from the house . I plan
on waterproofing of some type for that portion that will be below grade ,
about half the total wall area .

Most of the pumps we see here are towed behind a pickup truck.
It is more price competitive to separate the pump from the truck.,
The pump and the truck stay near the street and they just drag a hose
to the work.
They do have some big snorkel trucks nut you usually see them on
commercial jobs.
I have pumped well over 100 yards of concrete here at the house and my
wife pumped thousands when she was building houses.

On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 1:31:05 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 13:18:51 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 10:46:52 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 21:24:15 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

rbowman wrote:
On 09/15/2015 07:24 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Well , as they say , no battle survives contact with the enemy
intact ... I was pricing block vs poured concrete today , with
the mistaken expression that block would be cheaper - what a
surprise , concrete is half the cost for materials only . Well ,
actually less than half . because I'm getting the floor too for
just over half .

Are you figuring in the forms? I worked on a volunteer project
where the guy in charge tried to cheap out and build forms out of
scrap laying around the site. He got a floor too when the forms
let go. We weren't prepared to strike it off, so it set up lumpy.

I'm researching using some 7/16 OSB , then reusing it for exterior
sheathing or maybe on the roof . Question there is what to use as a
release agent . Diesel has been suggested but not sure if the odor
will be a problem later . Floor will be poured first as a
monolithic (?) slab with the footings integrated into the slab . I
also plan to use a poly vapor barrier under the slab , thickness is
yet to be decided .

Florida is the land of the monoslab. Be sure to leave the footer
part of the slab free of the visqueen so you can use it as a Ufer
electrode and tie this into the ground electrode system.
If you are using a contractor to pour the walls, they will have the
forms. They usually use a commercial product for the release agent,
designed for the form material they use.

I've done a bit more research , found that the walls will cost
about the same either way . I was thinking of going with 4" walls ,
found that 6" is the minimum recommended . That makes the cost so
close that it's actually going to be easier to do the block . Also ,
doing block means I don't have to do a marathon mix-n-pour . I'm
probably being too anal about controlling costs , have to keep
reminding myself that a dollar spent now will probably save 3 later .

There is no way you can "mix and pour" that much concrete cheaper than
just getting a chain of redi mix trucks and a pump. This won't even be
a long day. It will be about 54 sq/ft of wall per yard at 6".
You usually get 10 yards on a truck.

The problem is that this is a small community and the local redimix
doesn't HAVE a pumper . Due to the location , no way to get a truck close
enough and I'm sure as hell not going to move 6 1/2 yards on concrete in a
wheelbarrow . Turns out that total cost for materials is pretty much a push
either way , and blocks will be easier for me in this case .
As Oren suggested , there will be some of the spaces filled with concrete
and reinforced with rebar . Moisture intrusion shouldn't be a problem as
long as the landscaping profile directs runoff away from the house . I plan
on waterproofing of some type for that portion that will be below grade ,
about half the total wall area .

Most of the pumps we see here are towed behind a pickup truck.
It is more price competitive to separate the pump from the truck.,
The pump and the truck stay near the street and they just drag a hose
to the work.
They do have some big snorkel trucks nut you usually see them on
commercial jobs.
I have pumped well over 100 yards of concrete here at the house and my
wife pumped thousands when she was building houses.

Your wife must be one very strong woman. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Wimpy Monster

On 9/15/2015 10:41 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/15/2015 9:37 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 09/15/2015 07:24 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Well , as they say , no battle survives contact with the enemy
intact ... I
was pricing block vs poured concrete today , with the mistaken
expression that block would be cheaper - what a surprise , concrete
is half the cost for materials only . Well , actually less than
half . because I'm getting the floor too for just over half .

Are you figuring in the forms? I worked on a volunteer project where
the guy in charge tried to cheap out and build forms out of scrap
laying around the site. He got a floor too when the forms let go. We
weren't prepared to strike it off, so it set up lumpy.

I'd use ICFs (Insulating Concrete Forms) and have a poured foundation
already well insulated. Something like www.standardicf.net

I'm not sure that's cost-effective here . It just doesn't get that cold
for that long . Exterior walls will be native stone with 1" foam behind it .
Not sure if I was clear , this cellar will be 10 x 16 under a 24 x 24
kitchen . There will be a pretty big crawl space which I might just use to
grow mushrooms ...


Mushroom growing is different from a habitable space. The ICFs are
often used in the south to save on AC costs. In the north, basement
insulation can save a bundle. I'd have two inches of foam under the
slab here.

On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 8:46:57 AM UTC-7, Terry Coombs wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 21:24:15 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

rbowman wrote:
On 09/15/2015 07:24 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Well , as they say , no battle survives contact with the enemy
intact ... I was pricing block vs poured concrete today , with the
mistaken expression that block would be cheaper - what a surprise ,
concrete is half the cost for materials only . Well , actually less
than half . because I'm getting the floor too for just over half .

Are you figuring in the forms? I worked on a volunteer project where
the guy in charge tried to cheap out and build forms out of scrap
laying around the site. He got a floor too when the forms let go. We
weren't prepared to strike it off, so it set up lumpy.

I'm researching using some 7/16 OSB , then reusing it for exterior
sheathing or maybe on the roof . Question there is what to use as a
release agent . Diesel has been suggested but not sure if the odor
will be a problem later . Floor will be poured first as a
monolithic (?) slab with the footings integrated into the slab . I
also plan to use a poly vapor barrier under the slab , thickness is
yet to be decided .

Florida is the land of the monoslab. Be sure to leave the footer part
of the slab free of the visqueen so you can use it as a Ufer electrode
and tie this into the ground electrode system.
If you are using a contractor to pour the walls, they will have the
forms. They usually use a commercial product for the release agent,
designed for the form material they use.

I've done a bit more research , found that the walls will cost about the
same either way . I was thinking of going with 4" walls , found that 6" is
the minimum recommended . That makes the cost so close that it's actually
going to be easier to do the block . Also , doing block means I don't have
to do a marathon mix-n-pour . I'm probably being too anal about controlling
costs , have to keep reminding myself that a dollar spent now will probably
save 3 later .

--
Snag

Block is a very flexible method but remember to add in the time and cost to lay it. I've BTDT and would hire it laid next time. It also is not as "sturdy" as poured. Very easy to pull a wall down once any top weight is removed.

Harry K

On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 11:18:57 AM UTC-7, Terry Coombs wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 10:46:52 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 21:24:15 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

rbowman wrote:
On 09/15/2015 07:24 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Well , as they say , no battle survives contact with the enemy
intact ... I was pricing block vs poured concrete today , with
the mistaken expression that block would be cheaper - what a
surprise , concrete is half the cost for materials only . Well ,
actually less than half . because I'm getting the floor too for
just over half .

Are you figuring in the forms? I worked on a volunteer project
where the guy in charge tried to cheap out and build forms out of
scrap laying around the site. He got a floor too when the forms
let go. We weren't prepared to strike it off, so it set up lumpy.

I'm researching using some 7/16 OSB , then reusing it for exterior
sheathing or maybe on the roof . Question there is what to use as a
release agent . Diesel has been suggested but not sure if the odor
will be a problem later . Floor will be poured first as a
monolithic (?) slab with the footings integrated into the slab . I
also plan to use a poly vapor barrier under the slab , thickness is
yet to be decided .

Florida is the land of the monoslab. Be sure to leave the footer
part of the slab free of the visqueen so you can use it as a Ufer
electrode and tie this into the ground electrode system.
If you are using a contractor to pour the walls, they will have the
forms. They usually use a commercial product for the release agent,
designed for the form material they use.

I've done a bit more research , found that the walls will cost
about the same either way . I was thinking of going with 4" walls ,
found that 6" is the minimum recommended . That makes the cost so
close that it's actually going to be easier to do the block . Also ,
doing block means I don't have to do a marathon mix-n-pour . I'm
probably being too anal about controlling costs , have to keep
reminding myself that a dollar spent now will probably save 3 later .

There is no way you can "mix and pour" that much concrete cheaper than
just getting a chain of redi mix trucks and a pump. This won't even be
a long day. It will be about 54 sq/ft of wall per yard at 6".
You usually get 10 yards on a truck.

The problem is that this is a small community and the local redimix
doesn't HAVE a pumper . Due to the location , no way to get a truck close
enough and I'm sure as hell not going to move 6 1/2 yards on concrete in a
wheelbarrow . Turns out that total cost for materials is pretty much a push
either way , and blocks will be easier for me in this case .
As Oren suggested , there will be some of the spaces filled with concrete
and reinforced with rebar . Moisture intrusion shouldn't be a problem as
long as the landscaping profile directs runoff away from the house . I plan
on waterproofing of some type for that portion that will be below grade ,
about half the total wall area .
--
Snag

I did my three season porch (enclosed a patio). Rsulted in a 3' back wall against a slope. Waterproofed with some of the paint-on fiber containing waterproofing. Haven't had a problem with moisture. Basement used to be wet but not after I laid a drain pipe below that knee wall footing.

Harry K wrote:
On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 8:46:57 AM UTC-7, Terry Coombs
wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 21:24:15 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

rbowman wrote:
On 09/15/2015 07:24 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Well , as they say , no battle survives contact with the enemy
intact ... I was pricing block vs poured concrete today , with
the mistaken expression that block would be cheaper - what a
surprise , concrete is half the cost for materials only . Well ,
actually less than half . because I'm getting the floor too for
just over half .

Are you figuring in the forms? I worked on a volunteer project
where the guy in charge tried to cheap out and build forms out of
scrap laying around the site. He got a floor too when the forms
let go. We weren't prepared to strike it off, so it set up lumpy.

I'm researching using some 7/16 OSB , then reusing it for exterior
sheathing or maybe on the roof . Question there is what to use as a
release agent . Diesel has been suggested but not sure if the odor
will be a problem later . Floor will be poured first as a
monolithic (?) slab with the footings integrated into the slab . I
also plan to use a poly vapor barrier under the slab , thickness is
yet to be decided .

Florida is the land of the monoslab. Be sure to leave the footer
part of the slab free of the visqueen so you can use it as a Ufer
electrode and tie this into the ground electrode system.
If you are using a contractor to pour the walls, they will have the
forms. They usually use a commercial product for the release agent,
designed for the form material they use.

I've done a bit more research , found that the walls will cost
about the same either way . I was thinking of going with 4" walls ,
found that 6" is the minimum recommended . That makes the cost so
close that it's actually going to be easier to do the block . Also ,
doing block means I don't have to do a marathon mix-n-pour . I'm
probably being too anal about controlling costs , have to keep
reminding myself that a dollar spent now will probably save 3 later .

--
Snag

Block is a very flexible method but remember to add in the time and
cost to lay it. I've BTDT and would hire it laid next time. It also
is not as "sturdy" as poured. Very easy to pull a wall down once any
top weight is removed.

Harry K

It's going to be hard to remove the weight of half a house sitting on top
.... this cellar won't be entirely underground , bury depth will vary from
about 5 1/2 feet to just under 3 . There will be rebar every 4 feet and if I
can figure out how I might add some horizontal rebar about 2/3 up the wall .
I was talking to a neighbor and he's used that asphalt type waterproofing
and liked it . Water intrusion is not my biggest worry but why not take
steps now .
As far as time , the only thing I have more of than time is ... time .
--
Snag

On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 07:17:55 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

Harry K wrote:
On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 8:46:57 AM UTC-7, Terry Coombs
wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 21:24:15 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

rbowman wrote:
On 09/15/2015 07:24 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Well , as they say , no battle survives contact with the enemy
intact ... I was pricing block vs poured concrete today , with
the mistaken expression that block would be cheaper - what a
surprise , concrete is half the cost for materials only . Well ,
actually less than half . because I'm getting the floor too for
just over half .

Are you figuring in the forms? I worked on a volunteer project
where the guy in charge tried to cheap out and build forms out of
scrap laying around the site. He got a floor too when the forms
let go. We weren't prepared to strike it off, so it set up lumpy.

I'm researching using some 7/16 OSB , then reusing it for exterior
sheathing or maybe on the roof . Question there is what to use as a
release agent . Diesel has been suggested but not sure if the odor
will be a problem later . Floor will be poured first as a
monolithic (?) slab with the footings integrated into the slab . I
also plan to use a poly vapor barrier under the slab , thickness is
yet to be decided .

Florida is the land of the monoslab. Be sure to leave the footer
part of the slab free of the visqueen so you can use it as a Ufer
electrode and tie this into the ground electrode system.
If you are using a contractor to pour the walls, they will have the
forms. They usually use a commercial product for the release agent,
designed for the form material they use.

I've done a bit more research , found that the walls will cost
about the same either way . I was thinking of going with 4" walls ,
found that 6" is the minimum recommended . That makes the cost so
close that it's actually going to be easier to do the block . Also ,
doing block means I don't have to do a marathon mix-n-pour . I'm
probably being too anal about controlling costs , have to keep
reminding myself that a dollar spent now will probably save 3 later .

--
Snag

Block is a very flexible method but remember to add in the time and
cost to lay it. I've BTDT and would hire it laid next time. It also
is not as "sturdy" as poured. Very easy to pull a wall down once any
top weight is removed.

Harry K

It's going to be hard to remove the weight of half a house sitting on top
... this cellar won't be entirely underground , bury depth will vary from
about 5 1/2 feet to just under 3 . There will be rebar every 4 feet and if I
can figure out how I might add some horizontal rebar about 2/3 up the wall .
I was talking to a neighbor and he's used that asphalt type waterproofing
and liked it . Water intrusion is not my biggest worry but why not take
steps now .
As far as time , the only thing I have more of than time is ... time .

Block is a perfectly good building material but if you are a one man
band, it is slow. As long as that is OK for you, go for it.

On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 07:17:55 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

There will be rebar every 4 feet and if I
can figure out how I might add some horizontal rebar about 2/3 up the wall .

You can give added strength to the block wall using a wire mesh, about
every 3rd - 4th course. Sits in the mortar.

Pic:
https://tinyurl.com/p986vag

There is also rebar channel block for the top course that can tie the
vertical cavity rebar. Lay rebar in and tie them together with rebar
twist ties.

Pic:
https://tinyurl.com/nt9awx2

On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 09:34:31 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 07:17:55 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

There will be rebar every 4 feet and if I
can figure out how I might add some horizontal rebar about 2/3 up the wall .

You can give added strength to the block wall using a wire mesh, about
every 3rd - 4th course. Sits in the mortar.

Pic:
https://tinyurl.com/p986vag

There is also rebar channel block for the top course that can tie the
vertical cavity rebar. Lay rebar in and tie them together with rebar
twist ties.

Pic:
https://tinyurl.com/nt9awx2

When you do this you use "hooks", rebar with a 90 degree bend at the
top so you have a foot or so to tie to the tie beam rebar at the top
and the footer rebar at the bottom. The hook from the top laps the
hook from the bottom and you knock a hole in the wall to tie them
together. You put a scrap of plywood over the hole when you pour the
doweled cells solid.

The other option is top form up the top 16" and pour a solid tie beam.

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/addi...am%20forms.jpg

On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 12:59:16 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 09:34:31 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 07:17:55 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

There will be rebar every 4 feet and if I
can figure out how I might add some horizontal rebar about 2/3 up the wall .

You can give added strength to the block wall using a wire mesh, about
every 3rd - 4th course. Sits in the mortar.

Pic:
https://tinyurl.com/p986vag

There is also rebar channel block for the top course that can tie the
vertical cavity rebar. Lay rebar in and tie them together with rebar
twist ties.

Pic:
https://tinyurl.com/nt9awx2

When you do this you use "hooks", rebar with a 90 degree bend at the
top so you have a foot or so to tie to the tie beam rebar at the top
and the footer rebar at the bottom. The hook from the top laps the
hook from the bottom and you knock a hole in the wall to tie them
together. You put a scrap of plywood over the hole when you pour the
doweled cells solid.

The other option is top form up the top 16" and pour a solid tie beam.

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/addi...am%20forms.jpg

In your area (Cape), back in ~ 1960 I went to work with Dad. The
plywood was nailed to the block using cut nails. The ply was ripped
off and not all nails came out. I was knocking the left over nails
off when one broke, flew and cut my lip. I was lucky I didn't loose an
eye. My lip bled like a stuck hog

On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 12:22:57 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 12:59:16 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 09:34:31 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 07:17:55 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

There will be rebar every 4 feet and if I
can figure out how I might add some horizontal rebar about 2/3 up the wall .

You can give added strength to the block wall using a wire mesh, about
every 3rd - 4th course. Sits in the mortar.

Pic:
https://tinyurl.com/p986vag

There is also rebar channel block for the top course that can tie the
vertical cavity rebar. Lay rebar in and tie them together with rebar
twist ties.

Pic:
https://tinyurl.com/nt9awx2

When you do this you use "hooks", rebar with a 90 degree bend at the
top so you have a foot or so to tie to the tie beam rebar at the top
and the footer rebar at the bottom. The hook from the top laps the
hook from the bottom and you knock a hole in the wall to tie them
together. You put a scrap of plywood over the hole when you pour the
doweled cells solid.

The other option is top form up the top 16" and pour a solid tie beam.

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/addi...am%20forms.jpg

In your area (Cape), back in ~ 1960 I went to work with Dad. The
plywood was nailed to the block using cut nails. The ply was ripped
off and not all nails came out. I was knocking the left over nails
off when one broke, flew and cut my lip. I was lucky I didn't loose an
eye. My lip bled like a stuck hog

So you admit to being a pig? ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Hog Monster

On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 10:22:49 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 12:59:16 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 09:34:31 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 07:17:55 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

There will be rebar every 4 feet and if I
can figure out how I might add some horizontal rebar about 2/3 up the wall .

You can give added strength to the block wall using a wire mesh, about
every 3rd - 4th course. Sits in the mortar.

Pic:
https://tinyurl.com/p986vag

There is also rebar channel block for the top course that can tie the
vertical cavity rebar. Lay rebar in and tie them together with rebar
twist ties.

Pic:
https://tinyurl.com/nt9awx2

When you do this you use "hooks", rebar with a 90 degree bend at the
top so you have a foot or so to tie to the tie beam rebar at the top
and the footer rebar at the bottom. The hook from the top laps the
hook from the bottom and you knock a hole in the wall to tie them
together. You put a scrap of plywood over the hole when you pour the
doweled cells solid.

The other option is top form up the top 16" and pour a solid tie beam.

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/addi...am%20forms.jpg

In your area (Cape), back in ~ 1960 I went to work with Dad. The
plywood was nailed to the block using cut nails. The ply was ripped
off and not all nails came out. I was knocking the left over nails
off when one broke, flew and cut my lip. I was lucky I didn't loose an
eye. My lip bled like a stuck hog

These days it is "hard nails" in a nail gun. I haven't seen a cut nail
used in a couple decades.