Well , as they say , no battle survives contact with the enemy intact ... I
was pricing block vs poured concrete today , with the mistaken expression
that block would be cheaper - what a surprise , concrete is half the cost
for materials only . Well , actually less than half . because I'm getting
the floor too for just over half .
Anyway , and this would come up with block too , I want to apply a
waterproofing to the portions of the poured walls that will be below grade .
I'm seeing crystalline type sealers , and know nothing of the technology .
Any of y'all have experience with this stuff ? Is it cost effective ? I was
ready to apply a coat of asphalt emulsion/felt/emulsion , not knowing about
this other stuff .

--
Snag

On 09/15/2015 07:24 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Well , as they say , no battle survives contact with the enemy intact ... I
was pricing block vs poured concrete today , with the mistaken expression
that block would be cheaper - what a surprise , concrete is half the cost
for materials only . Well , actually less than half . because I'm getting
the floor too for just over half .

Are you figuring in the forms? I worked on a volunteer project where the
guy in charge tried to cheap out and build forms out of scrap laying
around the site. He got a floor too when the forms let go. We weren't
prepared to strike it off, so it set up lumpy.

On 9/15/2015 9:37 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 09/15/2015 07:24 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Well , as they say , no battle survives contact with the enemy intact
... I
was pricing block vs poured concrete today , with the mistaken expression
that block would be cheaper - what a surprise , concrete is half the cost
for materials only . Well , actually less than half . because I'm getting
the floor too for just over half .

Are you figuring in the forms? I worked on a volunteer project where the
guy in charge tried to cheap out and build forms out of scrap laying
around the site. He got a floor too when the forms let go. We weren't
prepared to strike it off, so it set up lumpy.

I'd use ICFs (Insulating Concrete Forms) and have a poured foundation
already well insulated. Something like www.standardicf.net

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/15/2015 9:37 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 09/15/2015 07:24 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Well , as they say , no battle survives contact with the enemy
intact ... I
was pricing block vs poured concrete today , with the mistaken
expression that block would be cheaper - what a surprise , concrete
is half the cost for materials only . Well , actually less than
half . because I'm getting the floor too for just over half .

Are you figuring in the forms? I worked on a volunteer project where
the guy in charge tried to cheap out and build forms out of scrap
laying around the site. He got a floor too when the forms let go. We
weren't prepared to strike it off, so it set up lumpy.

I'd use ICFs (Insulating Concrete Forms) and have a poured foundation
already well insulated. Something like www.standardicf.net

I'm not sure that's cost-effective here . It just doesn't get that cold
for that long . Exterior walls will be native stone with 1" foam behind it .
Not sure if I was clear , this cellar will be 10 x 16 under a 24 x 24
kitchen . There will be a pretty big crawl space which I might just use to
grow mushrooms ...
--
Snag

On 9/15/2015 10:41 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/15/2015 9:37 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 09/15/2015 07:24 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Well , as they say , no battle survives contact with the enemy
intact ... I
was pricing block vs poured concrete today , with the mistaken
expression that block would be cheaper - what a surprise , concrete
is half the cost for materials only . Well , actually less than
half . because I'm getting the floor too for just over half .

Are you figuring in the forms? I worked on a volunteer project where
the guy in charge tried to cheap out and build forms out of scrap
laying around the site. He got a floor too when the forms let go. We
weren't prepared to strike it off, so it set up lumpy.

I'd use ICFs (Insulating Concrete Forms) and have a poured foundation
already well insulated. Something like www.standardicf.net

I'm not sure that's cost-effective here . It just doesn't get that cold
for that long . Exterior walls will be native stone with 1" foam behind it .
Not sure if I was clear , this cellar will be 10 x 16 under a 24 x 24
kitchen . There will be a pretty big crawl space which I might just use to
grow mushrooms ...


Mushroom growing is different from a habitable space. The ICFs are
often used in the south to save on AC costs. In the north, basement
insulation can save a bundle. I'd have two inches of foam under the
slab here.

On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 9:11:00 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/15/2015 9:37 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 09/15/2015 07:24 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Well , as they say , no battle survives contact with the enemy intact
... I
was pricing block vs poured concrete today , with the mistaken expression
that block would be cheaper - what a surprise , concrete is half the cost
for materials only . Well , actually less than half . because I'm getting
the floor too for just over half .

Are you figuring in the forms? I worked on a volunteer project where the
guy in charge tried to cheap out and build forms out of scrap laying
around the site. He got a floor too when the forms let go. We weren't
prepared to strike it off, so it set up lumpy.

I'd use ICFs (Insulating Concrete Forms) and have a poured foundation
already well insulated. Something like www.standardicf.net

That stuff is so cool(no pun). ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Concrete Monster

rbowman wrote:
On 09/15/2015 07:24 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Well , as they say , no battle survives contact with the enemy
intact ... I was pricing block vs poured concrete today , with the
mistaken expression that block would be cheaper - what a surprise ,
concrete is half the cost for materials only . Well , actually less
than half . because I'm getting the floor too for just over half .

Are you figuring in the forms? I worked on a volunteer project where
the guy in charge tried to cheap out and build forms out of scrap
laying around the site. He got a floor too when the forms let go. We
weren't prepared to strike it off, so it set up lumpy.

I'm researching using some 7/16 OSB , then reusing it for exterior
sheathing or maybe on the roof . Question there is what to use as a release
agent . Diesel has been suggested but not sure if the odor will be a problem
later . Floor will be poured first as a monolithic (?) slab with the
footings integrated into the slab . I also plan to use a poly vapor barrier
under the slab , thickness is yet to be decided .

--
Snag

On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 21:24:15 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

rbowman wrote:
On 09/15/2015 07:24 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Well , as they say , no battle survives contact with the enemy
intact ... I was pricing block vs poured concrete today , with the
mistaken expression that block would be cheaper - what a surprise ,
concrete is half the cost for materials only . Well , actually less
than half . because I'm getting the floor too for just over half .

Are you figuring in the forms? I worked on a volunteer project where
the guy in charge tried to cheap out and build forms out of scrap
laying around the site. He got a floor too when the forms let go. We
weren't prepared to strike it off, so it set up lumpy.

I'm researching using some 7/16 OSB , then reusing it for exterior
sheathing or maybe on the roof . Question there is what to use as a release
agent . Diesel has been suggested but not sure if the odor will be a problem
later . Floor will be poured first as a monolithic (?) slab with the
footings integrated into the slab . I also plan to use a poly vapor barrier
under the slab , thickness is yet to be decided .

Florida is the land of the monoslab. Be sure to leave the footer part
of the slab free of the visqueen so you can use it as a Ufer electrode
and tie this into the ground electrode system.
If you are using a contractor to pour the walls, they will have the
forms. They usually use a commercial product for the release agent,
designed for the form material they use.

wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 21:24:15 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

rbowman wrote:
On 09/15/2015 07:24 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Well , as they say , no battle survives contact with the enemy
intact ... I was pricing block vs poured concrete today , with the
mistaken expression that block would be cheaper - what a surprise ,
concrete is half the cost for materials only . Well , actually less
than half . because I'm getting the floor too for just over half .

Are you figuring in the forms? I worked on a volunteer project where
the guy in charge tried to cheap out and build forms out of scrap
laying around the site. He got a floor too when the forms let go. We
weren't prepared to strike it off, so it set up lumpy.

I'm researching using some 7/16 OSB , then reusing it for exterior
sheathing or maybe on the roof . Question there is what to use as a
release agent . Diesel has been suggested but not sure if the odor
will be a problem later . Floor will be poured first as a
monolithic (?) slab with the footings integrated into the slab . I
also plan to use a poly vapor barrier under the slab , thickness is
yet to be decided .

Florida is the land of the monoslab. Be sure to leave the footer part
of the slab free of the visqueen so you can use it as a Ufer electrode
and tie this into the ground electrode system.
If you are using a contractor to pour the walls, they will have the
forms. They usually use a commercial product for the release agent,
designed for the form material they use.

I've done a bit more research , found that the walls will cost about the
same either way . I was thinking of going with 4" walls , found that 6" is
the minimum recommended . That makes the cost so close that it's actually
going to be easier to do the block . Also , doing block means I don't have
to do a marathon mix-n-pour . I'm probably being too anal about controlling
costs , have to keep reminding myself that a dollar spent now will probably
save 3 later .

--
Snag

On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 10:46:52 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

I've done a bit more research , found that the walls will cost about the
same either way . I was thinking of going with 4" walls , found that 6" is
the minimum recommended . That makes the cost so close that it's actually
going to be easier to do the block . Also , doing block means I don't have
to do a marathon mix-n-pour . I'm probably being too anal about controlling
costs , have to keep reminding myself that a dollar spent now will probably
save 3 later .

Maybe you can fill the block cores with vertical rebar and cement.

Perhaps a French drain around the perimeter (perforated pipe & stone)?

Saw a monolithic basement pour some years ago. French drain, coated
walls with some type of moisture membrane added. My guess it was for
the "100 year flood". The water table is ~250' in the Mohave Desert

On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 10:46:52 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 21:24:15 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

rbowman wrote:
On 09/15/2015 07:24 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Well , as they say , no battle survives contact with the enemy
intact ... I was pricing block vs poured concrete today , with the
mistaken expression that block would be cheaper - what a surprise ,
concrete is half the cost for materials only . Well , actually less
than half . because I'm getting the floor too for just over half .

Are you figuring in the forms? I worked on a volunteer project where
the guy in charge tried to cheap out and build forms out of scrap
laying around the site. He got a floor too when the forms let go. We
weren't prepared to strike it off, so it set up lumpy.

I'm researching using some 7/16 OSB , then reusing it for exterior
sheathing or maybe on the roof . Question there is what to use as a
release agent . Diesel has been suggested but not sure if the odor
will be a problem later . Floor will be poured first as a
monolithic (?) slab with the footings integrated into the slab . I
also plan to use a poly vapor barrier under the slab , thickness is
yet to be decided .

Florida is the land of the monoslab. Be sure to leave the footer part
of the slab free of the visqueen so you can use it as a Ufer electrode
and tie this into the ground electrode system.
If you are using a contractor to pour the walls, they will have the
forms. They usually use a commercial product for the release agent,
designed for the form material they use.

I've done a bit more research , found that the walls will cost about the
same either way . I was thinking of going with 4" walls , found that 6" is
the minimum recommended . That makes the cost so close that it's actually
going to be easier to do the block . Also , doing block means I don't have
to do a marathon mix-n-pour . I'm probably being too anal about controlling
costs , have to keep reminding myself that a dollar spent now will probably
save 3 later .

There is no way you can "mix and pour" that much concrete cheaper than
just getting a chain of redi mix trucks and a pump. This won't even be
a long day. It will be about 54 sq/ft of wall per yard at 6".
You usually get 10 yards on a truck.

On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 8:46:57 AM UTC-7, Terry Coombs wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 21:24:15 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

rbowman wrote:
On 09/15/2015 07:24 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Well , as they say , no battle survives contact with the enemy
intact ... I was pricing block vs poured concrete today , with the
mistaken expression that block would be cheaper - what a surprise ,
concrete is half the cost for materials only . Well , actually less
than half . because I'm getting the floor too for just over half .

Are you figuring in the forms? I worked on a volunteer project where
the guy in charge tried to cheap out and build forms out of scrap
laying around the site. He got a floor too when the forms let go. We
weren't prepared to strike it off, so it set up lumpy.

I'm researching using some 7/16 OSB , then reusing it for exterior
sheathing or maybe on the roof . Question there is what to use as a
release agent . Diesel has been suggested but not sure if the odor
will be a problem later . Floor will be poured first as a
monolithic (?) slab with the footings integrated into the slab . I
also plan to use a poly vapor barrier under the slab , thickness is
yet to be decided .

Florida is the land of the monoslab. Be sure to leave the footer part
of the slab free of the visqueen so you can use it as a Ufer electrode
and tie this into the ground electrode system.
If you are using a contractor to pour the walls, they will have the
forms. They usually use a commercial product for the release agent,
designed for the form material they use.

I've done a bit more research , found that the walls will cost about the
same either way . I was thinking of going with 4" walls , found that 6" is
the minimum recommended . That makes the cost so close that it's actually
going to be easier to do the block . Also , doing block means I don't have
to do a marathon mix-n-pour . I'm probably being too anal about controlling
costs , have to keep reminding myself that a dollar spent now will probably
save 3 later .

--
Snag

Block is a very flexible method but remember to add in the time and cost to lay it. I've BTDT and would hire it laid next time. It also is not as "sturdy" as poured. Very easy to pull a wall down once any top weight is removed.

Harry K