With all of the rain, I have been having problems with GFI tripping of
the pool circuit. It is okay unless we get more than an inch of rain or
so in an hour or so. Any particular area of the motor or the circuit
that I should think about maybe siliconing or is it likely the saturated
soil messing with the ground or something else??
FWIW if we put a fan in the area of the motor and/or the box, it
seems to dry out and we can use it within an hour or two whereas if we
don't use the fan, it was a day the time before?
Any tips on tracking down the culprit?
--
³Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital.²
‹ Aaron Levenstein

On Sunday, July 12, 2015 at 11:04:02 AM UTC-4, Kurt Ullman wrote:
With all of the rain, I have been having problems with GFI tripping of
the pool circuit. It is okay unless we get more than an inch of rain or
so in an hour or so. Any particular area of the motor or the circuit
that I should think about maybe siliconing or is it likely the saturated
soil messing with the ground or something else??
FWIW if we put a fan in the area of the motor and/or the box, it
seems to dry out and we can use it within an hour or two whereas if we
don't use the fan, it was a day the time before?
Any tips on tracking down the culprit?
--
³Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital.²
€¹ Aaron Levenstein

In your previous post about this, I outlined how to track it down.
I assume you have a GFCI breaker. When it's tripping, disconnect
the load side and see if it still trips. If it does, then it's
the breaker. If it doesn't trip, then proceed down the load side
circuit. If it only goes to the pump, disconnect it at the pump,
leave it connected at the breaker. If it trips, then it's water
somewhere in between. If it doesn't trip without the pump, but
does when the pump is connected, then it's the pump. If there are
other loads on there, deal with them one at a time, per above.

On Sunday, July 12, 2015 at 10:04:02 AM UTC-5, Kurt Ullman wrote:
With all of the rain, I have been having problems with GFI tripping of
the pool circuit. It is okay unless we get more than an inch of rain or
so in an hour or so. Any particular area of the motor or the circuit
that I should think about maybe siliconing or is it likely the saturated
soil messing with the ground or something else??
FWIW if we put a fan in the area of the motor and/or the box, it
seems to dry out and we can use it within an hour or two whereas if we
don't use the fan, it was a day the time before?
Any tips on tracking down the culprit?
--


Condensation getting into the motor or wiring? Use a hair dryer to heat the control box or motor to see if moisture is getting into the control box or into the pump motor. Many outdoor control cabinets have an electric heater in them to drive out moisture by keeping the interior warm. If it turns out to be condensation getting into your control box, you could rig a nightlight with a standard 7W incandescent lamp to be a heater for the inside of your control box. You could get creative, drill a hole in the control box cover near the light then glue a piece of translucent plastic over the hole and your 7W heater doubles as a power on indicator. If moisture is somehow getting to your pump motor, it can be heated to by wrapping a crankcase heater from an AC compressor around the motor to keep it warm. The same sort of heater is made in an aluminum bar form that could be used inside a control box. 8-)

https://tinyurl.com/ooev8ws

https://tinyurl.com/q3xztc9

https://tinyurl.com/nsrs968

http://www.tutco.com/conduction_heat...kcase_heaters/

[8~{} Uncle Pool Monster

On Sun, 12 Jul 2015 08:33:58 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, July 12, 2015 at 11:04:02 AM UTC-4, Kurt Ullman wrote:
With all of the rain, I have been having problems with GFI tripping of
the pool circuit. It is okay unless we get more than an inch of rain or
so in an hour or so. Any particular area of the motor or the circuit
that I should think about maybe siliconing or is it likely the saturated
soil messing with the ground or something else??
FWIW if we put a fan in the area of the motor and/or the box, it
seems to dry out and we can use it within an hour or two whereas if we
don't use the fan, it was a day the time before?
Any tips on tracking down the culprit?
--
³Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital.²
‹ Aaron Levenstein

In your previous post about this, I outlined how to track it down.
I assume you have a GFCI breaker. When it's tripping, disconnect
the load side and see if it still trips. If it does, then it's
the breaker. If it doesn't trip, then proceed down the load side
circuit. If it only goes to the pump, disconnect it at the pump,
leave it connected at the breaker. If it trips, then it's water
somewhere in between. If it doesn't trip without the pump, but
does when the pump is connected, then it's the pump. If there are
other loads on there, deal with them one at a time, per above.

We know noting about the setup, the power cabinet, or the wiring.

Kurt, if IRC, did not reply to other ideas in his first post.

In article ,
Oren wrote:


We know noting about the setup, the power cabinet, or the wiring.

Kurt, if IRC, did not reply to other ideas in his first post.
Yes I did, at least those I saw.

At the area with the pump, there is a box with a switch to turn on and
turn off the pump, one for the light and one to run the auto pool cover.
When I try to run the pump, it kicks out. Everything else in the box
(the light, the auto cover and both of the outlets (where the GFI is
located naturally) that I use to plug in things like the Iphone or
speakers are working fine), it is only the pump that is causing me
problems.
The pump appears from a quick inspection to have no water entry
problems that I can find. The places where the power goes in is tight at
the pump and when I undo it, quick visual inspection doesn't show any
kind of discoloration, wetness or a patina which I have been told to
expect. The box that has the switches in it seems the same way as far
as I can tell. I put some silicon around the box as an additional
protection .
Anything else you need to know?
--
³Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital.²
‹ Aaron Levenstein

On Sun, 12 Jul 2015 16:41:26 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

Anything else you need to know?

Maybe. I'm not an electric guy. Did you try what Trader suggested the
first and last time?

Is the bonding wire tight?

On Sunday, July 12, 2015 at 4:41:30 PM UTC-4, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
Oren wrote:


We know noting about the setup, the power cabinet, or the wiring.

Kurt, if IRC, did not reply to other ideas in his first post.
Yes I did, at least those I saw.

At the area with the pump, there is a box with a switch to turn on and
turn off the pump, one for the light and one to run the auto pool cover.
When I try to run the pump, it kicks out. Everything else in the box
(the light, the auto cover and both of the outlets (where the GFI is
located naturally) that I use to plug in things like the Iphone or
speakers are working fine), it is only the pump that is causing me
problems.
The pump appears from a quick inspection to have no water entry
problems that I can find. The places where the power goes in is tight at
the pump and when I undo it, quick visual inspection doesn't show any
kind of discoloration, wetness or a patina which I have been told to
expect. The box that has the switches in it seems the same way as far
as I can tell. I put some silicon around the box as an additional
protection .

So, disconnect the wires at the pump and see if the GFCI will stay
set. If it does, then sounds like it's time for a new motor.

In article ,
Oren wrote:

On Sun, 12 Jul 2015 16:41:26 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

Anything else you need to know?

Maybe. I'm not an electric guy. Did you try what Trader suggested the
first and last time?

Is the bonding wire tight?

Yes. That was the only reply I got last time, at least that I saw (main
reason I tried it again).

Further: We took some fans and a hair dryer down to the area and
focussed the hair dryer on the pump itself and the fan on the junction
box. After about 4-4.5 hours, it dried out to where it started working
again.
--
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital."
-- Aaron Levenstein

On Sun, 12 Jul 2015 16:46:24 -0500, trader_4 wrote:

On Sunday, July 12, 2015 at 4:41:30 PM UTC-4, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
Oren wrote:


We know noting about the setup, the power cabinet, or the wiring.

Kurt, if IRC, did not reply to other ideas in his first post.
Yes I did, at least those I saw.

At the area with the pump, there is a box with a switch to turn on and
turn off the pump, one for the light and one to run the auto pool cover.
When I try to run the pump, it kicks out. Everything else in the box
(the light, the auto cover and both of the outlets (where the GFI is
located naturally) that I use to plug in things like the Iphone or
speakers are working fine), it is only the pump that is causing me
problems.
The pump appears from a quick inspection to have no water entry
problems that I can find. The places where the power goes in is tight at
the pump and when I undo it, quick visual inspection doesn't show any
kind of discoloration, wetness or a patina which I have been told to
expect. The box that has the switches in it seems the same way as far
as I can tell. I put some silicon around the box as an additional
protection .

So, disconnect the wires at the pump and see if the GFCI will stay
set. If it does, then sounds like it's time for a new motor.


Do those motors typically have weep holes in the bottom
side to allow condensation to escape? Condensation is an issue for
irrigation system motors and such. Everything has some provision
to allow for that. The motors have weep holes. The electrical
boxes have the switches mounted off the base, not directly on it.
Some may also have the weep holes.
I'd probably try drilling weep holes at the low end of the
motor depending on how tough the disassembly is.


--
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

In article ,
"Dean Hoffman" wrote:



Do those motors typically have weep holes in the bottom
side to allow condensation to escape?

The motor has openings. They look more like cooling than weep holes, but
from looking at the motor, I don't see why they wouldn't work for that
function. They are on the bottom.

This doesn't happen all the time. Although with the 18 inches plus of
rain since May, it has happened twice this year. Last night we got 2.5
inches in about an hour and it went off. We got about that over a 48
hours a couple of days before with no problem. The other time, was after
almost 24 hours straight of rain. Some drenching, some not do much. I
don't remember the total. Today's it just stopped. Last time we turned
it off (unwittingly) to put in some chlorine and it wouldn't start.
Again the hairdryer and fans dried it out after 5-6 hours.
--
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital."
-- Aaron Levenstein

On Sunday, July 12, 2015 at 7:18:09 PM UTC-4, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
Oren wrote:

On Sun, 12 Jul 2015 16:41:26 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

Anything else you need to know?

Maybe. I'm not an electric guy. Did you try what Trader suggested the
first and last time?

Is the bonding wire tight?

Yes. That was the only reply I got last time, at least that I saw (main
reason I tried it again).


Then something is wrong with the service you're using for groups, or you
have some kind of filters/blocks set where you're missing a lot of posts.
There were a whole lot of replies to your previous thread, including mine.
And again, you're clearly not seeing my posts in this one either. I suspect
you may have anyone who posts from google blocked, but I doubt that's all
of the problem, because there were many others posting here besides me.

On Sun, 12 Jul 2015 19:18:01 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

In article ,
Oren wrote:

On Sun, 12 Jul 2015 16:41:26 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

Anything else you need to know?

Maybe. I'm not an electric guy. Did you try what Trader suggested the
first and last time?

Is the bonding wire tight?

Yes. That was the only reply I got last time, at least that I saw (main
reason I tried it again).

Further: We took some fans and a hair dryer down to the area and
focussed the hair dryer on the pump itself and the fan on the junction
box. After about 4-4.5 hours, it dried out to where it started working
again.

Does this pump rest on a 4 inch thick concrete pad. Used on pool
pumps and HVAC units? Assuming the motor is not on the ground.

In article ,
Oren wrote:



Does this pump rest on a 4 inch thick concrete pad. Used on pool
pumps and HVAC units? Assuming the motor is not on the ground.

Nope. It is on a plastic base that is maybe 1/4 in thick. Same base it
has been on for nearly 28 years with no trouble until recently.
--
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital."
-- Aaron Levenstein

On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 8:35:45 AM UTC-4, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
Oren wrote:



Does this pump rest on a 4 inch thick concrete pad. Used on pool
pumps and HVAC units? Assuming the motor is not on the ground.

Nope. It is on a plastic base that is maybe 1/4 in thick. Same base it
has been on for nearly 28 years with no trouble until recently.
--
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital."
-- Aaron Levenstein

I don't think Kurt will ever get this solved because he's clearly
not seeing replies from a lot of people, including me. He had
another thread here on this couple weeks ago and I sensed the
same thing was happening. Perhaps someone here who he apparently
does see, eg Oren can communicate that to him.

On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 06:17:31 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 8:35:45 AM UTC-4, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
Oren wrote:



Does this pump rest on a 4 inch thick concrete pad. Used on pool
pumps and HVAC units? Assuming the motor is not on the ground.

Nope. It is on a plastic base that is maybe 1/4 in thick. Same base it
has been on for nearly 28 years with no trouble until recently.
--
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital."
-- Aaron Levenstein

I don't think Kurt will ever get this solved because he's clearly
not seeing replies from a lot of people, including me. He had
another thread here on this couple weeks ago and I sensed the
same thing was happening. Perhaps someone here who he apparently
does see, eg Oren can communicate that to him.

Trader wrote Sunday:

"In your previous post about this, I outlined how to track it down.
I assume you have a GFCI breaker. When it's tripping, disconnect
the load side and see if it still trips. If it does, then it's
the breaker. If it doesn't trip, then proceed down the load side
circuit. If it only goes to the pump, disconnect it at the pump,
leave it connected at the breaker. If it trips, then it's water
somewhere in between. If it doesn't trip without the pump, but
does when the pump is connected, then it's the pump. If there are
other loads on there, deal with them one at a time, per above."

Similar in the first thread on this subject.

On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 10:42:24 AM UTC-4, Oren wrote:

I don't think Kurt will ever get this solved because he's clearly
not seeing replies from a lot of people, including me. He had
another thread here on this couple weeks ago and I sensed the
same thing was happening. Perhaps someone here who he apparently
does see, eg Oren can communicate that to him.

Trader wrote Sunday:

"In your previous post about this, I outlined how to track it down.
I assume you have a GFCI breaker. When it's tripping, disconnect
the load side and see if it still trips. If it does, then it's
the breaker. If it doesn't trip, then proceed down the load side
circuit. If it only goes to the pump, disconnect it at the pump,
leave it connected at the breaker. If it trips, then it's water
somewhere in between. If it doesn't trip without the pump, but
does when the pump is connected, then it's the pump. If there are
other loads on there, deal with them one at a time, per above."

Similar in the first thread on this subject.

Thanks. Let's see the results.

On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 07:51:24 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 10:42:24 AM UTC-4, Oren wrote:

I don't think Kurt will ever get this solved because he's clearly
not seeing replies from a lot of people, including me. He had
another thread here on this couple weeks ago and I sensed the
same thing was happening. Perhaps someone here who he apparently
does see, eg Oren can communicate that to him.

Trader wrote Sunday:

"In your previous post about this, I outlined how to track it down.
I assume you have a GFCI breaker. When it's tripping, disconnect
the load side and see if it still trips. If it does, then it's
the breaker. If it doesn't trip, then proceed down the load side
circuit. If it only goes to the pump, disconnect it at the pump,
leave it connected at the breaker. If it trips, then it's water
somewhere in between. If it doesn't trip without the pump, but
does when the pump is connected, then it's the pump. If there are
other loads on there, deal with them one at a time, per above."

Similar in the first thread on this subject.

Thanks. Let's see the results.

June 27th Trader wrote:

"So, the pump is the only load on that GFI? GFI is a breaker type?

First I'd disconnect the wires at the load side of GFCI, see if it
will reset and hold. If it does, then I'd probably disconnect the
wires at the pump, reconnect the wires at the GFCI and see if it
holds. If it does, then you know it's the pump. Water in the pump
doesn't sound good. Where is the pump, outdoors? Typical pool pump
is designed to be out in the rain without water getting in. And
if water does get in, probably hard to get it out with just a
heat fan or similar."

In article ,
Oren wrote:

On

I don't think Kurt will ever get this solved because he's clearly
not seeing replies from a lot of people, including me. He had
another thread here on this couple weeks ago and I sensed the
same thing was happening. Perhaps someone here who he apparently
does see, eg Oren can communicate that to him.

Trader wrote Sunday:

"In your previous post about this, I outlined how to track it down.
I assume you have a GFCI breaker. When it's tripping, disconnect
the load side and see if it still trips. If it does, then it's
the breaker. If it doesn't trip, then proceed down the load side
circuit. If it only goes to the pump, disconnect it at the pump,
leave it connected at the breaker. If it trips, then it's water
somewhere in between. If it doesn't trip without the pump, but
does when the pump is connected, then it's the pump. If there are
other loads on there, deal with them one at a time, per above."

Similar in the first thread on this subject.
HMM. Wonder what else I am missing. Thanks for passing this along and
thanks to trader. Now that you mention it does seem like awhile since I
saw anything from him. I'll look at my filters to see if I added him by
mistake. Trying to keep ahead of the Col. has been a problem recently
(grin).

I'll try it next time it happens. The electrician was out on another
problem (pump switch had deteroriated and he said at the time the pump
was the only thing on the that particular circuit.
We put a little structure over the top on the pump to see if keeping
the rain off it would be enough. We've had a couple driving rains with
no problems, but don't know if that helps or it just hasn't been enough
to trigger things.
--
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital."
-- Aaron Levenstein

On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 11:11:45 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

Wonder what else I am missing. Thanks for passing this along and
thanks to trader. Now that you mention it does seem like awhile since I
saw anything from him. I'll look at my filters to see if I added him by
mistake.

I'm not aware of how your NNTP reader works. If you can filter an
entire domain, like Google - that might be what is happening.

My reader doesn't allow such a filter - single posters only.

In article ,
Oren wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 11:11:45 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

Wonder what else I am missing. Thanks for passing this along and
thanks to trader. Now that you mention it does seem like awhile since I
saw anything from him. I'll look at my filters to see if I added him by
mistake.

I'm not aware of how your NNTP reader works. If you can filter an
entire domain, like Google - that might be what is happening.

My reader doesn't allow such a filter - single posters only.

I have killfiled all of Google, but that is the only one and that has
been for around 6 years now and I know I have seen Trader post in the
meantime.
--
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital."
-- Aaron Levenstein

On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 18:12:37 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

In article ,
Oren wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 11:11:45 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

Wonder what else I am missing. Thanks for passing this along and
thanks to trader. Now that you mention it does seem like awhile since I
saw anything from him. I'll look at my filters to see if I added him by
mistake.

I'm not aware of how your NNTP reader works. If you can filter an
entire domain, like Google - that might be what is happening.

My reader doesn't allow such a filter - single posters only.

I have killfiled all of Google, but that is the only one and that has
been for around 6 years now and I know I have seen Trader post in the
meantime.

So you also kill "bob haller". Never see him, either?. Or our
resident Uncle Monster from Google. TDD's brother. From Alabamastain.

You are missing some fun :-)

Wish my reader would allow me to kill an entire domain. I'm not
changing the reader though.

On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 5:27:53 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 18:12:37 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

In article ,
Oren wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 11:11:45 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

Wonder what else I am missing. Thanks for passing this along and
thanks to trader. Now that you mention it does seem like awhile since I
saw anything from him. I'll look at my filters to see if I added him by
mistake.

I'm not aware of how your NNTP reader works. If you can filter an
entire domain, like Google - that might be what is happening.

My reader doesn't allow such a filter - single posters only.

I have killfiled all of Google, but that is the only one and that has
been for around 6 years now and I know I have seen Trader post in the
meantime.

So you also kill "bob haller". Never see him, either?. Or our
resident Uncle Monster from Google. TDD's brother. From Alabamastain.

You are missing some fun :-)

Wish my reader would allow me to kill an entire domain. I'm not
changing the reader though.

Hell, Google Groups doesn't let me kill anything. All I can do is report abuse by flagging posts one at a time. Like someone is doing to Burka Boy's posts. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Abuse Monster
[8~{} Uncle Abusive Monster

In article ,
Oren wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 18:12:37 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

In article ,
Oren wrote:

Wish my reader would allow me to kill an entire domain. I'm not
changing the reader though.

Just as well, because this one doesn't work with Yosemite and beyond.
Trying to find another one.
I'll remove the Google filter and see what happens.
--
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital."
-- Aaron Levenstein

On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 19:41:20 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

I'll remove the Google filter and see what happens.

Reply again, say what the electrician suggested.

My pool light doesn't work. Replaced the broken bulb and put in a new
seal ... still no joy. Put a used switch in the box...no joy.

I will get to the chore later