On 5/5/2015 I sent out a note about my air conditioner not cooling after
being on for a long period of time. I had to drive up to the Sacramento
area yesterday and meet an a/c tech during the late afternoon, when it
got hot (but only 80 degrees outdoors), to demonstrate what was going on.
He figured it out. I had kept outdoor/indoor/thermostat/vent
temperatures for four days running, and noticed a pattern...cold air blew
for a while, but after an hour or so, no matter the outside/indoor
temperature, or thermostat setting, 74 degree air began to blow.

Whe the a/c first goes on, it blows 58 degree air and begins to cool the
house. (I hung a digital thermometer on the overhead vent.) If the
house isn't too hot, it gets cooled down properly and the a/c turns
itself off. If the house is hot, the a/c begins to blow 58 degree air,
but after a while (maybe an hour or so), the fan continues to blow, since
the thermostat is still calling to cool more, but the compressor turns
off. All the while, I thought the compressor was still going, because
air was blowing out of the vent, but the air was 74 degrees.

Yesterday, I turned the a/c on at 2 pm, and the house began to cool with
58 degree air coming from the vent. The tech arrived at 3:15 pm, and
just at that time, I showed him that the vent air was now blowing at 74
degrees. He went outside to the a/c unit, and noticed that although air
was blowing out the indoor vent, the compressor was not running as
noticed by the fact that the fan on top of the unit was not running. He
measured all the amp/volts at the two main capacitors (start and run
capacitors) and all was fine. He measured the freon, and it was up to
capacity. He then measured the temperature of the compressor, and it was
HOT, at 149 degrees. He called back to his company and also to the
American Standard, the a/c manufacturer, for advice/trouble shooting.
All were baffled.

He then took the garden hose and ran water over the compressor cooling
fins, and the compressor started right up and the vent air went from 74
to 71 degrees in a minute, and continued to decline. He surmised that
the compressor was overheating and was shutting down, as it should. But,
no one knows why the compressor gets so hot. The outdoor temperature was
only 80 degrees yesterday. Even if the outdoor temperature is 75
degrees, the compressor gets hot after running for a while and shuts
itself off.

The a/c unit is an 18 year-old American Standard model 7A2042A100A1, R22,
used to cool a 1700 sq. ft. single story home in the Sacramento area.
This is my dad's house, who passed away in late 2013. Beginning in 2012,
he used to call me up to figure out why the house didn't cool properly.
We had techs out, and they replaced this and that, but still no luck. I
replaced two thermostats, thinking that may be the issue, but still no
luck.

A month ago, when the tech thought the problem was with the a/c fan,
because it was VERY noisy, he replaced the fan and capacitor for about
$500. But, warm air still blew.

So far, the tech can only explain this by saying that the unit is old,
and just doens't run as efficiently. While I can buy this, I don't know
why this would be. Anyone?

At any rate, to replace the compressor is about $2500, which I could do,
as it seems everything else is running fine, and especially since I've
just replace the fan/capacitor. To replace the entire unit is about
$4500, but they suggest that if I replace the entire unit, I should also
replace the perfectly running furnace, since a new a/c unit uses the
newer 'freon', and they like to match that with the furnace. I don't
understand this. But, to replace both a/c and furnace is about $10,000.
The a/c unit is about a 3.5 ton unit. I prefer to get by with the $2500
compressor, as I don't know how long I'll keep the house.

Any thoughts?

TIA

On Tue, 2 Jun 2015 16:24:50 +0000 (UTC), Boris
wrote in

Any thoughts?

Is the outside heat exchanger dirty or blocked up? Spraying water on
it lowered the temp enough for the compressor to restart.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

"Boris" wrote in message
9.88...
At any rate, to replace the compressor is about $2500, which I could do,
as it seems everything else is running fine, and especially since I've
just replace the fan/capacitor. To replace the entire unit is about
$4500, but they suggest that if I replace the entire unit, I should also
replace the perfectly running furnace, since a new a/c unit uses the
newer 'freon', and they like to match that with the furnace. I don't
understand this. But, to replace both a/c and furnace is about $10,000.
The a/c unit is about a 3.5 ton unit. I prefer to get by with the $2500
compressor, as I don't know how long I'll keep the house.

Any thoughts?

It does sound as if the compressor is worn out after 18 years.

I don't understand why a furnace (you did not tell what type or kind) would
have anything to do with the air conditioner. That statement abou tthe
need because of the newer "freon" and a match seems bogus to me. I think I
would be looking for a different company to do the work.

I believe I would replace the whole air conditioner. That way if it does
not cool correctly it would be on the installer to make it right and he
could not blame the problem on anything else.

CRNG wrote in
:

On Tue, 2 Jun 2015 16:24:50 +0000 (UTC), Boris
wrote in

Any thoughts?

Is the outside heat exchanger dirty or blocked up? Spraying water on
it lowered the temp enough for the compressor to restart.

Do you mean radiator looking cooling thing, that's visible when taking off
a cabinet side panel? Yes, it was clean.

On Tue, 2 Jun 2015 17:04:49 +0000 (UTC), Boris
wrote:

CRNG wrote in
:

On Tue, 2 Jun 2015 16:24:50 +0000 (UTC), Boris
wrote in

Any thoughts?

Is the outside heat exchanger dirty or blocked up? Spraying water on
it lowered the temp enough for the compressor to restart.

Do you mean radiator looking cooling thing, that's visible when taking off
a cabinet side panel? Yes, it was clean.

It may look clean, but can be restricting air flow through the fins.
There is a chemical used to spray on the fins. It will push dirt and
debris out of the fins. Then is rinsed off. Here in the Mojave Desert
we have blowing sand that is like talc powder.

Disclaimer Not an HVAC Tech.

On Tuesday, June 2, 2015 at 11:49:32 AM UTC-5, CRNG wrote:
On Tue, 2 Jun 2015 16:24:50 +0000 (UTC), Boris
wrote in

Any thoughts?

Is the outside heat exchanger dirty or blocked up? Spraying water on
it lowered the temp enough for the compressor to restart.
--

I have the professional chemicals and foamer that hooks to a water hose I used when I was able to work to clean condensing units. A homeowner can get aerosol cans of air conditioner cleaner from the big box stores that you can spray on the condensing coils and it will foam up penetrating the space between the fins to dissolve dirt that's interfering with air flow. Some brands claim to be self rinsing but I'd use a garden hose with the nozzle set for a wide gentle spray to rinse the coil. Don't ever use the pencil thin stream of water to rinse the coils because it will bend the fins and flatten them out which will block air flow. 8-)

[8~{} Uncle AC Monster

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in
:


"Boris" wrote in message
9.88...
At any rate, to replace the compressor is about $2500, which I could
do,
as it seems everything else is running fine, and especially since
I've just replace the fan/capacitor. To replace the entire unit is
about $4500, but they suggest that if I replace the entire unit, I
should also replace the perfectly running furnace, since a new a/c
unit uses the newer 'freon', and they like to match that with the
furnace. I don't understand this. But, to replace both a/c and
furnace is about $10,000. The a/c unit is about a 3.5 ton unit. I
prefer to get by with the $2500 compressor, as I don't know how long
I'll keep the house.

Any thoughts?

It does sound as if the compressor is worn out after 18 years.

I don't understand why a furnace (you did not tell what type or kind)
would have anything to do with the air conditioner. That statement
abou tthe need because of the newer "freon" and a match seems bogus to
me. I think I would be looking for a different company to do the
work.

The furnace is an American Standard, up-flow, housed in the hall closet.
There are copper tubes (carrying what, I don't know, but they get cold
when the a/c comes on)going to the furnace bonnet. I don't know the
interaction, if any.

I believe I would replace the whole air conditioner. That way if it
does not cool correctly it would be on the installer to make it right
and he could not blame the problem on anything else.

You're probably right.

Thanks.

Boris wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in
:


"Boris" wrote in message
9.88...
At any rate, to replace the compressor is about $2500, which I
could do,
as it seems everything else is running fine, and especially since
I've just replace the fan/capacitor. To replace the entire unit is
about $4500, but they suggest that if I replace the entire unit, I
should also replace the perfectly running furnace, since a new a/c
unit uses the newer 'freon', and they like to match that with the
furnace. I don't understand this. But, to replace both a/c and
furnace is about $10,000. The a/c unit is about a 3.5 ton unit. I
prefer to get by with the $2500 compressor, as I don't know how long
I'll keep the house.

Any thoughts?

It does sound as if the compressor is worn out after 18 years.

I don't understand why a furnace (you did not tell what type or kind)
would have anything to do with the air conditioner. That statement
abou tthe need because of the newer "freon" and a match seems bogus
to me. I think I would be looking for a different company to do the
work.

The furnace is an American Standard, up-flow, housed in the hall
closet. There are copper tubes (carrying what, I don't know, but they
get cold when the a/c comes on)going to the furnace bonnet. I don't
know the interaction, if any.

I believe I would replace the whole air conditioner. That way if it
does not cool correctly it would be on the installer to make it right
and he could not blame the problem on anything else.

You're probably right.

Thanks.

Before you replace the unit , do as a couple of others have suggested and
really clean the condenser coils - the radiator looking part of the outdoor
unit . It can look clean and still have enough gunk on the fins to interfere
with air flow and heat transfer . On the other hand , replacing a unit that
old with a new more efficient one may be a good economic choice . Don't fall
for that "we gotta replace the furnace too" crap . The systems are related
in their handling of the air , but otherwise are independent systems .

--
Snag

"Terry Coombs" wrote in
:

Boris wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in
:


"Boris" wrote in message
9.88...
At any rate, to replace the compressor is about $2500, which I
could do,
as it seems everything else is running fine, and especially since
I've just replace the fan/capacitor. To replace the entire unit is
about $4500, but they suggest that if I replace the entire unit, I
should also replace the perfectly running furnace, since a new a/c
unit uses the newer 'freon', and they like to match that with the
furnace. I don't understand this. But, to replace both a/c and
furnace is about $10,000. The a/c unit is about a 3.5 ton unit. I
prefer to get by with the $2500 compressor, as I don't know how
long I'll keep the house.

Any thoughts?

It does sound as if the compressor is worn out after 18 years.

I don't understand why a furnace (you did not tell what type or
kind) would have anything to do with the air conditioner. That
statement abou tthe need because of the newer "freon" and a match
seems bogus to me. I think I would be looking for a different
company to do the work.

The furnace is an American Standard, up-flow, housed in the hall
closet. There are copper tubes (carrying what, I don't know, but they
get cold when the a/c comes on)going to the furnace bonnet. I don't
know the interaction, if any.

I believe I would replace the whole air conditioner. That way if
it does not cool correctly it would be on the installer to make it
right and he could not blame the problem on anything else.

You're probably right.

Thanks.

Before you replace the unit , do as a couple of others have
suggested and
really clean the condenser coils - the radiator looking part of the
outdoor unit .

Yes, thank you. I'm sure I can do that myself, as long as I'm careful
and pay attention not to disturb any other components.

It can look clean and still have enough gunk on the
fins to interfere with air flow and heat transfer . On the other hand
, replacing a unit that old with a new more efficient one may be a
good economic choice . Don't fall for that "we gotta replace the
furnace too" crap . The systems are related in their handling of the
air , but otherwise are independent systems .

Does sound like crap to me, too. Especially since he couldn't give me a
good answer as to why, no matter how many ways I asked for clarification.

I was also reading about cleaning the evaporative coil in the top of the
furnace.

http://www.handymanhowto.com/how-to-...er-evaporator-
coils-part-3/

I doubt it's ever been done.

"Boris" wrote in message
09.88...
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in
:


"Boris" wrote in message
9.88...
The furnace is an American Standard, up-flow, housed in the hall closet.
There are copper tubes (carrying what, I don't know, but they get cold
when the a/c comes on)going to the furnace bonnet. I don't know the
interaction, if any.



I guess that the furnace is either gas or oil ?

The copper tubes that get cold are carring the 'freon'. If no one has
explained how it works, here is a very quick explination. The compressor
has a piston in it that compresses the gas to a liquid, then to the outside
unit that air blows across it and takes away the heat. Then pipes it to the
inside coils where the liquid goes through a small restriction in the pipe .
There it absorbs heat from the air and causes the liquid to boil and turn
into gas. This makes the coils feel cool.

Unless you have a heat pump that reversed the flow and the tubes inside get
hot in the winter it has nothing to do whit the furnace, just uses the same
blower and duct work.

I don't recall you saying what part of the country you are in. If in an
area that does not get below 25 deg C very many days of the year, you may
want to look at a heat pump. Cost should not be much more. If in a cold
area of the country, then a heat pump will not be very efficent.

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in
:


"Boris" wrote in message
09.88...
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in
:


"Boris" wrote in message
9.88...
The furnace is an American Standard, up-flow, housed in the hall
closet. There are copper tubes (carrying what, I don't know, but they
get cold when the a/c comes on)going to the furnace bonnet. I don't
know the interaction, if any.



I guess that the furnace is either gas or oil ?
Gas.

The copper tubes that get cold are carring the 'freon'. If no one has
explained how it works, here is a very quick explination. The
compressor has a piston in it that compresses the gas to a liquid,
then to the outside unit that air blows across it and takes away the
heat. Then pipes it to the inside coils where the liquid goes through
a small restriction in the pipe . There it absorbs heat from the air
and causes the liquid to boil and turn into gas. This makes the coils
feel cool.

Unless you have a heat pump
Nope.
that reversed the flow and the tubes
inside get hot in the winter it has nothing to do whit the furnace,
just uses the same blower and duct work.
Yes, that's what I've surmised.

I don't recall you saying what part of the country you are in.
Sacramento, CA. high 90's to low 30's
If in
an area that does not get below 25 deg C very many days of the year,
you may want to look at a heat pump. Cost should not be much more. If
in a cold area of the country, then a heat pump will not be very
efficent.

On 6/2/2015 12:24 PM, Boris wrote:


Yesterday, I turned the a/c on at 2 pm, and the house began to cool with
58 degree air coming from the vent. The tech arrived at 3:15 pm, and
just at that time, I showed him that the vent air was now blowing at 74
degrees. He went outside to the a/c unit, and noticed that although air
was blowing out the indoor vent, the compressor was not running as
noticed by the fact that the fan on top of the unit was not running. He
measured all the amp/volts at the two main capacitors (start and run
capacitors) and all was fine. He measured the freon, and it was up to
capacity. He then measured the temperature of the compressor, and it was
HOT, at 149 degrees. He called back to his company and also to the
American Standard, the a/c manufacturer, for advice/trouble shooting.
All were baffled.

He then took the garden hose and ran water over the compressor cooling
fins, and the compressor started right up and the vent air went from 74
to 71 degrees in a minute, and continued to decline. He surmised that
the compressor was overheating and was shutting down, as it should.

Have the fins been properly cleaned? That would be my first step. They
lose efficiency when cruded up. There is a cleaner made just for that
purpose.

Boris wrote:
"Terry Coombs" wrote in
:

Boris wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in
:


"Boris" wrote in message
9.88...
At any rate, to replace the compressor is about $2500, which I
could do,
as it seems everything else is running fine, and especially since
I've just replace the fan/capacitor. To replace the entire unit
is about $4500, but they suggest that if I replace the entire
unit, I should also replace the perfectly running furnace, since
a new a/c unit uses the newer 'freon', and they like to match
that with the furnace. I don't understand this. But, to replace
both a/c and furnace is about $10,000. The a/c unit is about a
3.5 ton unit. I prefer to get by with the $2500 compressor, as I
don't know how long I'll keep the house.

Any thoughts?

It does sound as if the compressor is worn out after 18 years.

I don't understand why a furnace (you did not tell what type or
kind) would have anything to do with the air conditioner. That
statement abou tthe need because of the newer "freon" and a match
seems bogus to me. I think I would be looking for a different
company to do the work.

The furnace is an American Standard, up-flow, housed in the hall
closet. There are copper tubes (carrying what, I don't know, but
they get cold when the a/c comes on)going to the furnace bonnet. I
don't know the interaction, if any.

I believe I would replace the whole air conditioner. That way if
it does not cool correctly it would be on the installer to make it
right and he could not blame the problem on anything else.

You're probably right.

Thanks.

Before you replace the unit , do as a couple of others have
suggested and
really clean the condenser coils - the radiator looking part of the
outdoor unit .

Yes, thank you. I'm sure I can do that myself, as long as I'm careful
and pay attention not to disturb any other components.

It can look clean and still have enough gunk on the
fins to interfere with air flow and heat transfer . On the other hand
, replacing a unit that old with a new more efficient one may be a
good economic choice . Don't fall for that "we gotta replace the
furnace too" crap . The systems are related in their handling of the
air , but otherwise are independent systems .

Does sound like crap to me, too. Especially since he couldn't give
me a good answer as to why, no matter how many ways I asked for
clarification.

I was also reading about cleaning the evaporative coil in the top of
the furnace.

http://www.handymanhowto.com/how-to-...er-evaporator-
coils-part-3/

I doubt it's ever been done.

If you've kept up with filter changes it's probably pretty clean . Depending
on how your system is put together it's probably a pure b***h to check .

--
Snag

On Tue, 2 Jun 2015 16:24:50 +0000 (UTC), Boris
wrote:


At any rate, to replace the compressor is about $2500, which I could do,
as it seems everything else is running fine, and especially since I've
just replace the fan/capacitor. To replace the entire unit is about
$4500, but they suggest that if I replace the entire unit, I should also
replace the perfectly running furnace, since a new a/c unit uses the
newer 'freon', and they like to match that with the furnace. I don't

I like to match my date's lipstick with the color of my car, but it
doesn't make the car run any better.


understand this. But, to replace both a/c and furnace is about $10,000.
The a/c unit is about a 3.5 ton unit. I prefer to get by with the $2500
compressor, as I don't know how long I'll keep the house.

Any thoughts?

I don't know enough to comment on the compressor but as you know, the
furnace doesn't use freon. It's just their way of trying to get you
to spend more. Do techs get a commission when customers spend money?
At least more money than a simple repair? Probably.

On Tue, 2 Jun 2015 16:24:50 +0000 (UTC), Boris
wrote:
To replace the entire unit is about
$4500, but they suggest that if I replace the entire unit, I should also
replace the perfectly running furnace, since a new a/c unit uses the
newer 'freon', and they like to match that with the furnace.

I agree with the others in saying that the furnace/air handler do not
necessarily need to be replaced. However, don't confuse the
furnace/air handler with the inside part of the air conditioner - the
evaperator coil. Those are commonly replaced when a new outside unit
is installed.

"Boris" wrote in message
09.88...
I don't recall you saying what part of the country you are in.
Sacramento, CA. high 90's to low 30's
If in
an area that does not get below 25 deg C very many days of the year,
you may want to look at a heat pump. Cost should not be much more. If
in a cold area of the country, then a heat pump will not be very
efficent.


I put in 25 deg C, should have been F. If it never got below 25 deg C you
probably would never need heat..

You may want to look at a heat pump. It probably won't cost much more and
may be less expensive to run than the gas for heat.

CRNG wrote:
On Tue, 2 Jun 2015 16:24:50 +0000 (UTC), Boris
wrote in

Any thoughts?

Is the outside heat exchanger dirty or blocked up? Spraying water on
it lowered the temp enough for the compressor to restart.

I wonder ODU fan is running reverse? Is the fan blowing out or sucking
in the air? 3.5 ton for 1700 sq ft house? Mine is 2600 sq ft 2 story,
3 ton works just fine. 10,000.00 total cost for new system seems too
high. If the compressor current draw is normal why does it OH?
compressor in our unit is in a insulation jacket yet it never OH. Are
the capacitors new for it? How about refrigerant oil?

On Tuesday, June 2, 2015 at 1:52:56 PM UTC-4, Boris wrote:
"Terry Coombs" wrote in
:

Boris wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in
:


"Boris" wrote in message
9.88...
At any rate, to replace the compressor is about $2500, which I
could do,
as it seems everything else is running fine, and especially since
I've just replace the fan/capacitor. To replace the entire unit is
about $4500, but they suggest that if I replace the entire unit, I
should also replace the perfectly running furnace, since a new a/c
unit uses the newer 'freon', and they like to match that with the
furnace. I don't understand this. But, to replace both a/c and
furnace is about $10,000. The a/c unit is about a 3.5 ton unit. I
prefer to get by with the $2500 compressor, as I don't know how
long I'll keep the house.

Any thoughts?

It does sound as if the compressor is worn out after 18 years.

I don't understand why a furnace (you did not tell what type or
kind) would have anything to do with the air conditioner. That
statement abou tthe need because of the newer "freon" and a match
seems bogus to me. I think I would be looking for a different
company to do the work.

The furnace is an American Standard, up-flow, housed in the hall
closet. There are copper tubes (carrying what, I don't know, but they
get cold when the a/c comes on)going to the furnace bonnet. I don't
know the interaction, if any.

I believe I would replace the whole air conditioner. That way if
it does not cool correctly it would be on the installer to make it
right and he could not blame the problem on anything else.

You're probably right.

Thanks.

Before you replace the unit , do as a couple of others have
suggested and
really clean the condenser coils - the radiator looking part of the
outdoor unit .

Yes, thank you. I'm sure I can do that myself, as long as I'm careful
and pay attention not to disturb any other components.

It can look clean and still have enough gunk on the
fins to interfere with air flow and heat transfer . On the other hand
, replacing a unit that old with a new more efficient one may be a
good economic choice . Don't fall for that "we gotta replace the
furnace too" crap . The systems are related in their handling of the
air , but otherwise are independent systems .

Does sound like crap to me, too. Especially since he couldn't give me a
good answer as to why, no matter how many ways I asked for clarification.


It's not exactly crap. You have an 18 year old furnace and an 18 year
old AC. They both rely on the same blower and main controller board.
When you're replacing the whole AC system, you're already at about 90%
of the labor to replace the whole furnace. All that's left is to disconnect
the gas line and the electric and chuck the old one out.
Not many people are going to opt to replace most of
an 18 year old system, but then leave and rely on the rest of the old
equipment. And if they do it that way, then later the blower or
the controller board fails, the installer has an unhappy customer.
Eqpt cost, the furnace part is less than the cost of the AC part. And
also if the furnace part needs to be replaced later, then you have more
labor cost, because now you have to take apart the AC system again.

Your symptoms could be a dying compressor. IDK why it would cost
$2500 to replace just a condenser. It sounds about 2X high to me.
But I'm also not sure I'd put even that into an 18 year old AC
system. The cost of $10K for a whole new system sounds several
thousand too high to me. When I went out for quotes a few years
ago, I was getting $7K - $9K for a 5 ton AC, 120K BTU furnace and
that was in The Peoples Republic of NJ, which is one of the most
expensive places. If you shop around, I'll bet you can do a lot
better. Also, the fact that the tech had to call around, including
the manufacturer to try to diagnose the problem, wouldn't leave me
with so much confidence in them.

On 6/2/15 12:24 PM, Boris wrote:

Any thoughts?

TIA

I'd check the temperature of the tube taking the liquid freon out of the
compressor unit with an infrared thermometer. The copper probably won't
give you a good reading, but if you wrap it with electrical tape, you
should be able to get a good IR reading from the tape.

If it's not much above the outdoor air temperature, the compressor
radiator isn't the problem.

I'd be interested in the temperature between the compressor and the
radiator. First, I'd google to try to find out what a reasonable
temperature is.

On my compressor, I don't think I could get an IR reading with the
compressor running. I'd tape the probe from an indoor-outdoor
thermometer to the tube. (Actually, I'd use the probe that came with my
multimeter because it's smaller.) I'd tape insulating material over it
to keep air from cooling the probe.

If the freon going into the radiator is abnormally hot but it's good
coming out, I'd suspect a restriction on the flow of freon somewhere in
the system. I'm vague about air conditioning, but I believe there's a
thermostatic valve on the evaporator. If it malfunctioned, I imagine
that restriction could be severe enough to overheat your compressor.

On 6/2/15 3:23 PM, J Burns wrote:
On 6/2/15 12:24 PM, Boris wrote:

Any thoughts?

TIA

I'd check the temperature of the tube taking the liquid freon out of the
compressor unit with an infrared thermometer. The copper probably won't
give you a good reading, but if you wrap it with electrical tape, you
should be able to get a good IR reading from the tape.

If it's not much above the outdoor air temperature, the compressor
radiator isn't the problem.

I'd be interested in the temperature between the compressor and the
radiator. First, I'd google to try to find out what a reasonable
temperature is.

On my compressor, I don't think I could get an IR reading with the
compressor running. I'd tape the probe from an indoor-outdoor
thermometer to the tube. (Actually, I'd use the probe that came with my
multimeter because it's smaller.) I'd tape insulating material over it
to keep air from cooling the probe.

If the freon going into the radiator is abnormally hot but it's good
coming out, I'd suspect a restriction on the flow of freon somewhere in
the system. I'm vague about air conditioning, but I believe there's a
thermostatic valve on the evaporator. If it malfunctioned, I imagine
that restriction could be severe enough to overheat your compressor.

Come to think of it, I wouldn't bother to check the temperature of the
tube coming out of the compressor. If the condenser is cooling properly
and the compressor is too hot, I'd suspect a malfunction in a valve at
the evaporator.

trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, June 2, 2015 at 1:52:56 PM UTC-4, Boris wrote:
"Terry Coombs" wrote in
:

Boris wrote:
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in
:


"Boris" wrote in message
9.88...
At any rate, to replace the compressor is about $2500, which I
could do,
as it seems everything else is running fine, and especially since
I've just replace the fan/capacitor. To replace the entire unit is
about $4500, but they suggest that if I replace the entire unit, I
should also replace the perfectly running furnace, since a new a/c
unit uses the newer 'freon', and they like to match that with the
furnace. I don't understand this. But, to replace both a/c and
furnace is about $10,000. The a/c unit is about a 3.5 ton unit. I
prefer to get by with the $2500 compressor, as I don't know how
long I'll keep the house.

Any thoughts?

It does sound as if the compressor is worn out after 18 years.

I don't understand why a furnace (you did not tell what type or
kind) would have anything to do with the air conditioner. That
statement abou tthe need because of the newer "freon" and a match
seems bogus to me. I think I would be looking for a different
company to do the work.

The furnace is an American Standard, up-flow, housed in the hall
closet. There are copper tubes (carrying what, I don't know, but they
get cold when the a/c comes on)going to the furnace bonnet. I don't
know the interaction, if any.

I believe I would replace the whole air conditioner. That way if
it does not cool correctly it would be on the installer to make it
right and he could not blame the problem on anything else.

You're probably right.

Thanks.

Before you replace the unit , do as a couple of others have
suggested and
really clean the condenser coils - the radiator looking part of the
outdoor unit .

Yes, thank you. I'm sure I can do that myself, as long as I'm careful
and pay attention not to disturb any other components.

It can look clean and still have enough gunk on the
fins to interfere with air flow and heat transfer . On the other hand
, replacing a unit that old with a new more efficient one may be a
good economic choice . Don't fall for that "we gotta replace the
furnace too" crap . The systems are related in their handling of the
air , but otherwise are independent systems .

Does sound like crap to me, too. Especially since he couldn't give me a
good answer as to why, no matter how many ways I asked for clarification.


It's not exactly crap. You have an 18 year old furnace and an 18 year
old AC. They both rely on the same blower and main controller board.
When you're replacing the whole AC system, you're already at about 90%
of the labor to replace the whole furnace. All that's left is to disconnect
the gas line and the electric and chuck the old one out.
Not many people are going to opt to replace most of
an 18 year old system, but then leave and rely on the rest of the old
equipment. And if they do it that way, then later the blower or
the controller board fails, the installer has an unhappy customer.
Eqpt cost, the furnace part is less than the cost of the AC part. And
also if the furnace part needs to be replaced later, then you have more
labor cost, because now you have to take apart the AC system again.

Your symptoms could be a dying compressor. IDK why it would cost
$2500 to replace just a condenser. It sounds about 2X high to me.
But I'm also not sure I'd put even that into an 18 year old AC
system. The cost of $10K for a whole new system sounds several
thousand too high to me. When I went out for quotes a few years
ago, I was getting $7K - $9K for a 5 ton AC, 120K BTU furnace and
that was in The Peoples Republic of NJ, which is one of the most
expensive places. If you shop around, I'll bet you can do a lot
better. Also, the fact that the tech had to call around, including
the manufacturer to try to diagnose the problem, wouldn't leave me
with so much confidence in them.


New furnace will have more efficient blower, probably VS or X13 type
DC motor driven blower which is whole lot more efficient than old PSC
type AC motor.

On 6/2/15 3:33 PM, J Burns wrote:
On 6/2/15 3:23 PM, J Burns wrote:
On 6/2/15 12:24 PM, Boris wrote:

Any thoughts?

TIA

I'd check the temperature of the tube taking the liquid freon out of the
compressor unit with an infrared thermometer. The copper probably won't
give you a good reading, but if you wrap it with electrical tape, you
should be able to get a good IR reading from the tape.

If it's not much above the outdoor air temperature, the compressor
radiator isn't the problem.

I'd be interested in the temperature between the compressor and the
radiator. First, I'd google to try to find out what a reasonable
temperature is.

On my compressor, I don't think I could get an IR reading with the
compressor running. I'd tape the probe from an indoor-outdoor
thermometer to the tube. (Actually, I'd use the probe that came with my
multimeter because it's smaller.) I'd tape insulating material over it
to keep air from cooling the probe.

If the freon going into the radiator is abnormally hot but it's good
coming out, I'd suspect a restriction on the flow of freon somewhere in
the system. I'm vague about air conditioning, but I believe there's a
thermostatic valve on the evaporator. If it malfunctioned, I imagine
that restriction could be severe enough to overheat your compressor.

Come to think of it, I wouldn't bother to check the temperature of the
tube coming out of the compressor. If the condenser is cooling properly
and the compressor is too hot, I'd suspect a malfunction in a valve at
the evaporator.

How about your drier? Many times, a drier will last the life of the
system, but not always. They can get clogged.

I've read that the water in freon can cause all kinds of problems. I
wonder if one problem could be a buildup of ice in the valve on the
evaporator that separates the high side from the low side.

When the compressor wasn't running, the ice would melt. Then the air
conditioner would run normally until a buildup of ice blocked the valve.
You'd lose your cooling, and I imagine the compressor would overheat.

That doesn't sound like all that hot a temperature for teh compressor
to me. But I'm just guessing. I know I've had compressors in the
past that would run all day long and be so hot that you couldn't touch
them without getting burned but they never stopped running. So maybe
it's overheat protection is a little too touchy.

I also got the impression from my AC guy that part of having a proper
amount of refrigerant in the system is so that there is a certain
amount of COLD refrigerant that for whatever reason trickles into the
compressor to keep it from getting too hot. I got the impression that
a low charge meant there wasn't enough of the "left over cold
refrigerant" to cool down the compressor and that could make the
compressor run hot. Sooooo... if there is any truth to that I would
hypothesize that if you were to have your AC guy shove some additional
"freon" into your system, whether he thinks it needs it or not, that
it might make the compressor run cooler and solve your problem.


On Tue, 2 Jun 2015 16:24:50 +0000 (UTC), Boris
wrote:

On 5/5/2015 I sent out a note about my air conditioner not cooling after
being on for a long period of time. I had to drive up to the Sacramento
area yesterday and meet an a/c tech during the late afternoon, when it
got hot (but only 80 degrees outdoors), to demonstrate what was going on.
He figured it out. I had kept outdoor/indoor/thermostat/vent
temperatures for four days running, and noticed a pattern...cold air blew
for a while, but after an hour or so, no matter the outside/indoor
temperature, or thermostat setting, 74 degree air began to blow.

Whe the a/c first goes on, it blows 58 degree air and begins to cool the
house. (I hung a digital thermometer on the overhead vent.) If the
house isn't too hot, it gets cooled down properly and the a/c turns
itself off. If the house is hot, the a/c begins to blow 58 degree air,
but after a while (maybe an hour or so), the fan continues to blow, since
the thermostat is still calling to cool more, but the compressor turns
off. All the while, I thought the compressor was still going, because
air was blowing out of the vent, but the air was 74 degrees.

Yesterday, I turned the a/c on at 2 pm, and the house began to cool with
58 degree air coming from the vent. The tech arrived at 3:15 pm, and
just at that time, I showed him that the vent air was now blowing at 74
degrees. He went outside to the a/c unit, and noticed that although air
was blowing out the indoor vent, the compressor was not running as
noticed by the fact that the fan on top of the unit was not running. He
measured all the amp/volts at the two main capacitors (start and run
capacitors) and all was fine. He measured the freon, and it was up to
capacity. He then measured the temperature of the compressor, and it was
HOT, at 149 degrees. He called back to his company and also to the
American Standard, the a/c manufacturer, for advice/trouble shooting.
All were baffled.

He then took the garden hose and ran water over the compressor cooling
fins, and the compressor started right up and the vent air went from 74
to 71 degrees in a minute, and continued to decline. He surmised that
the compressor was overheating and was shutting down, as it should. But,
no one knows why the compressor gets so hot. The outdoor temperature was
only 80 degrees yesterday. Even if the outdoor temperature is 75
degrees, the compressor gets hot after running for a while and shuts
itself off.

The a/c unit is an 18 year-old American Standard model 7A2042A100A1, R22,
used to cool a 1700 sq. ft. single story home in the Sacramento area.
This is my dad's house, who passed away in late 2013. Beginning in 2012,
he used to call me up to figure out why the house didn't cool properly.
We had techs out, and they replaced this and that, but still no luck. I
replaced two thermostats, thinking that may be the issue, but still no
luck.

A month ago, when the tech thought the problem was with the a/c fan,
because it was VERY noisy, he replaced the fan and capacitor for about
$500. But, warm air still blew.

So far, the tech can only explain this by saying that the unit is old,
and just doens't run as efficiently. While I can buy this, I don't know
why this would be. Anyone?

At any rate, to replace the compressor is about $2500, which I could do,
as it seems everything else is running fine, and especially since I've
just replace the fan/capacitor. To replace the entire unit is about
$4500, but they suggest that if I replace the entire unit, I should also
replace the perfectly running furnace, since a new a/c unit uses the
newer 'freon', and they like to match that with the furnace. I don't
understand this. But, to replace both a/c and furnace is about $10,000.
The a/c unit is about a 3.5 ton unit. I prefer to get by with the $2500
compressor, as I don't know how long I'll keep the house.

Any thoughts?

TIA

Tony Hwang wrote in news:%Imbx.22350$bM1.18144
@fx01.iad:

CRNG wrote:
On Tue, 2 Jun 2015 16:24:50 +0000 (UTC), Boris
wrote in

Any thoughts?

Is the outside heat exchanger dirty or blocked up? Spraying water on
it lowered the temp enough for the compressor to restart.

I wonder ODU fan is running reverse? Is the fan blowing out or sucking
in the air? 3.5 ton for 1700 sq ft house? Mine is 2600 sq ft 2 story,
3 ton works just fine. 10,000.00 total cost for new system seems too
high. If the compressor current draw is normal why does it OH?
compressor in our unit is in a insulation jacket yet it never OH. Are
the capacitors new for it? How about refrigerant oil?

I guess I should have said that the tech said he'd replace with a 3.5 ton
a/c unit. I assumed the current one is of similar capacity. He does
know the size of the house. Is there a place online where I can
calculate the size needed?

Boris wrote in
09.88:

Tony Hwang wrote in news:%Imbx.22350$bM1.18144
@fx01.iad:

snip

I wonder ODU fan is running reverse? Is the fan blowing out or
sucking in the air? 3.5 ton for 1700 sq ft house? Mine is 2600 sq ft
2 story, 3 ton works just fine. 10,000.00 total cost for new system
seems too high. If the compressor current draw is normal why does it
OH? compressor in our unit is in a insulation jacket yet it never OH.
Are the capacitors new for it? How about refrigerant oil?

I guess I should have said that the tech said he'd replace with a 3.5
ton a/c unit. I assumed the current one is of similar capacity. He
does know the size of the house. Is there a place online where I can
calculate the size needed?

Well, I just looked around, and some sites give me 4.5 tons, and this one
gives me 3 tons.

http://www.acdirect.com/ac-package-u...ter-ac-sizing-
calculator

Ashton Crusher wrote in
:

That doesn't sound like all that hot a temperature for teh compressor
to me. But I'm just guessing. I know I've had compressors in the
past that would run all day long and be so hot that you couldn't touch
them without getting burned but they never stopped running. So maybe
it's overheat protection is a little too touchy.

I also got the impression from my AC guy that part of having a proper
amount of refrigerant in the system is so that there is a certain
amount of COLD refrigerant that for whatever reason trickles into the
compressor to keep it from getting too hot. I got the impression that
a low charge meant there wasn't enough of the "left over cold
refrigerant" to cool down the compressor and that could make the
compressor run hot. Sooooo... if there is any truth to that I would
hypothesize that if you were to have your AC guy shove some additional
"freon" into your system, whether he thinks it needs it or not, that
it might make the compressor run cooler and solve your problem.


On Tue, 2 Jun 2015 16:24:50 +0000 (UTC), Boris
wrote:

On 5/5/2015 I sent out a note about my air conditioner not cooling
after being on for a long period of time. I had to drive up to the
Sacramento area yesterday and meet an a/c tech during the late
afternoon, when it got hot (but only 80 degrees outdoors), to
demonstrate what was going on. He figured it out. I had kept
outdoor/indoor/thermostat/vent temperatures for four days running, and
noticed a pattern...cold air blew for a while, but after an hour or
so, no matter the outside/indoor temperature, or thermostat setting,
74 degree air began to blow.

Whe the a/c first goes on, it blows 58 degree air and begins to cool
the house. (I hung a digital thermometer on the overhead vent.) If
the house isn't too hot, it gets cooled down properly and the a/c
turns itself off. If the house is hot, the a/c begins to blow 58
degree air, but after a while (maybe an hour or so), the fan continues
to blow, since the thermostat is still calling to cool more, but the
compressor turns off. All the while, I thought the compressor was
still going, because air was blowing out of the vent, but the air was
74 degrees.

Yesterday, I turned the a/c on at 2 pm, and the house began to cool
with 58 degree air coming from the vent. The tech arrived at 3:15 pm,
and just at that time, I showed him that the vent air was now blowing
at 74 degrees. He went outside to the a/c unit, and noticed that
although air was blowing out the indoor vent, the compressor was not
running as noticed by the fact that the fan on top of the unit was not
running. He measured all the amp/volts at the two main capacitors
(start and run capacitors) and all was fine. He measured the freon,
and it was up to capacity. He then measured the temperature of the
compressor, and it was HOT, at 149 degrees. He called back to his
company and also to the American Standard, the a/c manufacturer, for
advice/trouble shooting. All were baffled.

He then took the garden hose and ran water over the compressor cooling
fins, and the compressor started right up and the vent air went from
74 to 71 degrees in a minute, and continued to decline. He surmised
that the compressor was overheating and was shutting down, as it
should. But, no one knows why the compressor gets so hot. The
outdoor temperature was only 80 degrees yesterday. Even if the
outdoor temperature is 75 degrees, the compressor gets hot after
running for a while and shuts itself off.

The a/c unit is an 18 year-old American Standard model 7A2042A100A1,
R22, used to cool a 1700 sq. ft. single story home in the Sacramento
area. This is my dad's house, who passed away in late 2013.
Beginning in 2012, he used to call me up to figure out why the house
didn't cool properly. We had techs out, and they replaced this and
that, but still no luck. I replaced two thermostats, thinking that
may be the issue, but still no luck.

A month ago, when the tech thought the problem was with the a/c fan,
because it was VERY noisy, he replaced the fan and capacitor for about
$500. But, warm air still blew.

So far, the tech can only explain this by saying that the unit is old,
and just doens't run as efficiently. While I can buy this, I don't
know why this would be. Anyone?

At any rate, to replace the compressor is about $2500, which I could
do, as it seems everything else is running fine, and especially since
I've just replace the fan/capacitor. To replace the entire unit is
about $4500, but they suggest that if I replace the entire unit, I
should also replace the perfectly running furnace, since a new a/c
unit uses the newer 'freon', and they like to match that with the
furnace. I don't understand this. But, to replace both a/c and
furnace is about $10,000. The a/c unit is about a 3.5 ton unit. I
prefer to get by with the $2500 compressor, as I don't know how long
I'll keep the house.

Any thoughts?

TIA


Yes, the tech did say that freon also cools the compressor. He checked
it, and said it was fine. But...I had to ask him to check it. This
company, SierraPacific (Rancho Cordova, CA), is the company that
installed solar pool heat on my dad's roof 30 years ago. It's been
maintained and keeps the pool between 84 and 90 in the summer. I've got
an annual maintenance contract with them. With the a/c, my dad never had
a contract, and would just call any old company when service was needed.
I did add to the solar contract, an HVAC maintenance contract last month,
and they have been very responsive when I call them out. The last two
visits were about 2 hours each doing diagnostics, with no charge. They
come highly rated locally, and on Angie's List (for what it's worth),and
drive around in expensive, well stocked vans. However, they are always
trying to sell something.

I'm thinking I should clean the compressor fins and then see what
happens. If no better, I may call another company out for a second
opinion.

As you can tell, there's a pool at this house. All this reminds me of
last year when I hired a pool guy (I live two hours away in the S.F.
Peninsula) to take care of the pool. The first thing he told me was I
needed a new sand filter. Funny, it always worked well, even though the
zeo-sand was 8 year old on a ten year life span. He wanted $1000 to put
in a new filter. I knew nothing about pool maintenance (I'd rather not
have a pool, but this is Sacramento), but I taught myself, and cleaned up
the filter for about $50. Works great now.

But I digress...

On 6/2/15 4:12 PM, J Burns wrote:

How about your drier? Many times, a drier will last the life of the
system, but not always. They can get clogged.

I've read that the water in freon can cause all kinds of problems. I
wonder if one problem could be a buildup of ice in the valve on the
evaporator that separates the high side from the low side.

When the compressor wasn't running, the ice would melt. Then the air
conditioner would run normally until a buildup of ice blocked the valve.
You'd lose your cooling, and I imagine the compressor would overheat.

Found it!
http://www.freeasestudyguides.com/ac...ion-valve.html

If a car drier fails, the AC will run a little while, then quit cooling
when clogs the expansion valve.

On 6/2/15 7:21 PM, J Burns wrote:
On 6/2/15 4:12 PM, J Burns wrote:

How about your drier? Many times, a drier will last the life of the
system, but not always. They can get clogged.

I've read that the water in freon can cause all kinds of problems. I
wonder if one problem could be a buildup of ice in the valve on the
evaporator that separates the high side from the low side.

When the compressor wasn't running, the ice would melt. Then the air
conditioner would run normally until a buildup of ice blocked the valve.
You'd lose your cooling, and I imagine the compressor would overheat.

Found it!
http://www.freeasestudyguides.com/ac...ion-valve.html

If a car drier fails, the AC will run a little while, then quit cooling
when clogs the expansion valve.

http://www.achrnews.com/articles/91098-reasons-behind-compressor-overheating

There it is. If a compressor gets too hot, it's likely to be either
inadequate condenser cooling, which could be checked on the outlet side
of the condenser, or a blockage. They say a blockage could be in the
strainer or the drier. If it runs normally at first, I think it could be
icing in the expansion valve.

On Tuesday, June 2, 2015 at 6:21:20 PM UTC-5, J Burns wrote:
On 6/2/15 4:12 PM, J Burns wrote:

How about your drier? Many times, a drier will last the life of the
system, but not always. They can get clogged.

I've read that the water in freon can cause all kinds of problems. I
wonder if one problem could be a buildup of ice in the valve on the
evaporator that separates the high side from the low side.

When the compressor wasn't running, the ice would melt. Then the air
conditioner would run normally until a buildup of ice blocked the valve..
You'd lose your cooling, and I imagine the compressor would overheat.

Found it!
http://www.freeasestudyguides.com/ac...ion-valve.html

If a car drier fails, the AC will run a little while, then quit cooling
when clogs the expansion valve.

Many home AC systems have a calibrated orifice instead of the more efficient expansion valve and the orifice can freeze up and clog with ice if there is moisture in the refrigeration system. Most condensing units have a factory filter/dryer on the liquid line inside the condenser case. They can become clogged and need to be cut out and replaced with a short piece of copper tubing and a new dryer installed on the liquid line outside the condenser housing. Of course the refrigerant must be recovered before cutting any refrigeration lines. The freeze up can be easily diagnosed with a set of gauges if you know what readings you should look for. 8-)

[8~{} Uncle AC Monster

Boris wrote:
Tony Hwang wrote in news:%Imbx.22350$bM1.18144
@fx01.iad:

CRNG wrote:
On Tue, 2 Jun 2015 16:24:50 +0000 (UTC), Boris
wrote in

Any thoughts?

Is the outside heat exchanger dirty or blocked up? Spraying water on
it lowered the temp enough for the compressor to restart.

I wonder ODU fan is running reverse? Is the fan blowing out or sucking
in the air? 3.5 ton for 1700 sq ft house? Mine is 2600 sq ft 2 story,
3 ton works just fine. 10,000.00 total cost for new system seems too
high. If the compressor current draw is normal why does it OH?
compressor in our unit is in a insulation jacket yet it never OH. Are
the capacitors new for it? How about refrigerant oil?

I guess I should have said that the tech said he'd replace with a 3.5 ton
a/c unit. I assumed the current one is of similar capacity. He does
know the size of the house. Is there a place online where I can
calculate the size needed?

Hi,
Yes, Google it, you'll find "manual J calculation method" to calculate.
Over-sizing is common mistake causing short cycling system. If you
decide to go for new system, replace both a/c and furnace for improved
efficiency resulting cost saving in power consumption and more comfort.
I am just a retired EE but I went thru the system replacement at my
home(~20 yo).
I let the installer do mechanical part and electrical part I did saving
some $$. Going into 4th year and not an issue yet. I just replace
air filter twice a year(16x25x5 size, MERV 11) Just finished cleaning
condenser coil and checked Puron level as cooling season begins.

On 6/2/2015 4:55 PM, Boris wrote:


I guess I should have said that the tech said he'd replace with a 3.5
ton a/c unit. I assumed the current one is of similar capacity. He
does know the size of the house. Is there a place online where I can
calculate the size needed?

Well, I just looked around, and some sites give me 4.5 tons, and this one
gives me 3 tons.

http://www.acdirect.com/ac-package-u...ter-ac-sizing-
calculator


That site is giving vague averages. Fist step, did the old unit do the
job? If yes,it is probably right or very close to it.

The "square foot" calculations just take a lot of averages, but may be
way off on some houses.

Proper calculations consider:
Exposed walls and direction they face.
Insulation
Ceiling/roof and insulation
Window square footage and type

Too small, you won't be cool. Too big, you won't remove the humidity
and it will be cold and clammy.

On 6/2/2015 12:24 PM, Boris wrote:

capacity. He then measured the temperature of the compressor, and it was
HOT, at 149 degrees. He called back to his company and also to the
American Standard, the a/c manufacturer, for advice/trouble shooting.
All were baffled.

He then took the garden hose and ran water over the compressor cooling
fins, and the compressor started right up and the vent air went from 74
to 71 degrees in a minute, and continued to decline. He surmised that
the compressor was overheating and was shutting down, as it should. But,
no one knows why the compressor gets so hot. The outdoor temperature was
only 80 degrees yesterday. Even if the outdoor temperature is 75
degrees, the compressor gets hot after running for a while and shuts
itself off.


Any thoughts?

TIA


The condenser is clogged with dust, and needs
to be professionally cleaned. Use the purple
stuff. Any good tech would have picked up on
this very simple diagnosis in a few minutes.

Gee whiz, you told the entire class what was
wrong, wonder if I'll be the only simple minded
(but excellent quality) AC tech to pick up on
the answer you handed us on silver platter.

Your guy and tech support "baffled". What a
bunch of maroons.

BTW, remit $147.50 for consultation. I also make
house calls, buck a mile (one way) from western
NY, USA.

I have an uncle in Los Angeles who would love
to have me visit.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 6/2/2015 1:04 PM, Boris wrote:
Is the outside heat exchanger dirty or blocked up? Spraying water on
it lowered the temp enough for the compressor to restart.

Do you mean radiator looking cooling thing, that's visible when taking off
a cabinet side panel? Yes, it was clean.


More than once, I've worked on radiator looking things
that looked clean, but benefitted greatly from
professional cleaning. I'm really amazed the tech and
tech support didn't figure it out.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 6/2/2015 1:16 PM, Boris wrote:

I believe I would replace the whole air conditioner. That way if it
does not cool correctly it would be on the installer to make it right
and he could not blame the problem on anything else.

You're probably right.

Thanks.


Hey, tell you want. If you decide to replace the
entire unit, let me know what the quote is. I'll
fly out have my tools shipped via ground, and do
the job for much less than the replacement cost.

And visit my uncle in LA while I'm out.

I can provide at least one reference, fellow I
did work for about a year ago. He bought a
trailer and heat pump. I drove to South Carolina
and serviced his system. Runs fine now, and even
shocked the #### out of the seller (who made my
friend sign an statement that the heat pump was
totally beyond repair).

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 6/2/2015 2:25 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
I was also reading about cleaning the evaporative coil in the top of
the furnace.

http://www.handymanhowto.com/how-to-...er-evaporator-
coils-part-3/

I doubt it's ever been done.

If you've kept up with filter changes it's probably pretty clean . Depending
on how your system is put together it's probably a pure b***h to check .


The heat pump my friend Kevin had, was used by
smokers. My professional cleaning did so good,
you couldn't even smell the stink when I got done.

And, golly did it ever stink.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
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On 6/2/2015 3:23 PM, J Burns wrote:

If the freon going into the radiator is abnormally hot but it's good
coming out, I'd suspect a restriction on the flow of freon somewhere in
the system. I'm vague about air conditioning, but I believe there's a
thermostatic valve on the evaporator. If it malfunctioned, I imagine
that restriction could be severe enough to overheat your compressor.

Some have TXV and some have orifice (which for some
reason is called a piston). If there is a restriction,
the house won't cool well, but also there will be
much less heat coming into the compressor. I doubt
that's the problem.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
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On 6/2/2015 4:47 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
That doesn't sound like all that hot a temperature for teh compressor
to me. But I'm just guessing. I know I've had compressors in the
past that would run all day long and be so hot that you couldn't touch
them without getting burned but they never stopped running. So maybe
it's overheat protection is a little too touchy.

I also got the impression from my AC guy that part of having a proper
amount of refrigerant in the system is so that there is a certain
amount of COLD refrigerant that for whatever reason trickles into the
compressor to keep it from getting too hot. I got the impression that
a low charge meant there wasn't enough of the "left over cold
refrigerant" to cool down the compressor and that could make the
compressor run hot. Sooooo... if there is any truth to that I would
hypothesize that if you were to have your AC guy shove some additional
"freon" into your system, whether he thinks it needs it or not, that
it might make the compressor run cooler and solve your problem.


Well, certain to happen before too long. Just add a
couple pounds of that freon stuff, and it will be
just fine. Someone had to say it.

I stand by my original diagnosis, and also my offer
to come out and fix it.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
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On 6/2/15 10:46 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 6/2/2015 3:23 PM, J Burns wrote:

If the freon going into the radiator is abnormally hot but it's good
coming out, I'd suspect a restriction on the flow of freon somewhere in
the system. I'm vague about air conditioning, but I believe there's a
thermostatic valve on the evaporator. If it malfunctioned, I imagine
that restriction could be severe enough to overheat your compressor.

Some have TXV and some have orifice (which for some
reason is called a piston). If there is a restriction,
the house won't cool well, but also there will be
much less heat coming into the compressor. I doubt
that's the problem.

-
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.
This page says a blockage will overheat the compressor.

http://www.achrnews.com/articles/91098-reasons-behind-compressor-overheating

On 6/2/15 10:34 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 6/2/2015 12:24 PM, Boris wrote:

capacity. He then measured the temperature of the compressor, and it was
HOT, at 149 degrees. He called back to his company and also to the
American Standard, the a/c manufacturer, for advice/trouble shooting.
All were baffled.

He then took the garden hose and ran water over the compressor cooling
fins, and the compressor started right up and the vent air went from 74
to 71 degrees in a minute, and continued to decline. He surmised that
the compressor was overheating and was shutting down, as it should. But,
no one knows why the compressor gets so hot. The outdoor temperature was
only 80 degrees yesterday. Even if the outdoor temperature is 75
degrees, the compressor gets hot after running for a while and shuts
itself off.


Any thoughts?

TIA


The condenser is clogged with dust, and needs
to be professionally cleaned. Use the purple
stuff. Any good tech would have picked up on
this very simple diagnosis in a few minutes.

Gee whiz, you told the entire class what was
wrong, wonder if I'll be the only simple minded
(but excellent quality) AC tech to pick up on
the answer you handed us on silver platter.

Your guy and tech support "baffled". What a
bunch of maroons.


Maybe he was baffled because he knew the condenser was cooling properly.
Don't you think he checked the temperature of the outlet, with a
thermometer or by touch?

If the condenser were dirty enough to overheat the compressor, how would
he get a 16F drop when it was restarted? Why would it work fine for an
hour or so?

If there's moisture in the freon, most would probably pass through the
expansion orifice. It might take an hour for enough ice to build up, to
block it enough to overheat the compressor. As soon as the compressor
stops, the indoor blower heats the evaporator to 74. No more ice. The
tech starts it can can't find anything wrong.

BTW, remit $247.50 for insultation by insinuation.

On 6/2/2015 2:59 PM, trader_4 wrote:
that was in The Peoples Republic of NJ, which is one of the most
expensive places. If you shop around, I'll bet you can do a lot
better. Also, the fact that the tech had to call around, including
the manufacturer to try to diagnose the problem, wouldn't leave me
with so much confidence in them.


CA is total expensive, also. I'm astounded that the
tech (and telephone tech support) could not diagnose
some thing so obvious. Me, I'm a fat, balding old
guy who is running out of teeth. I'm no one special,
just a common sense retread (polyester belted with
suspenders) who thinks in simple terms.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..