"Fred James" wrote in message ...

I'm stumped with this one. What do you fellers think could have cause a spark? No damage. I'm not taking a chance in my shade tree skills with this one, but have to use the car tomorrow around town until the shop opens on Monday. Meanwhile, I put a fire extinguisher and a full 2 gallon weed sprayer in the front seat just in case.

Car was cold. Drove about 3 miles at 35mph or less. Parked. Then smelled asbestos burning. Popped the hood. A 6-inch diameter section of the hood liner over the battery had burned. I mashed the few embers that were still soldering around the edges.

Can't tell for sure, but the starting point could be a 1/16 inch depression that is darker than the rest near the center. If that's was it, my first thought was a red hot piece of metal, sand, etc, that had come from a pulley. Reason I say that is one of the idler pulleys has been squealing lately. Nothing else was hot or burned. Battery was cold, terminals tight, no corrosion, no sign of shorting. Checked every wire and connection I could see and all look OK.

Only other thought is that it picked up a cigarette or something burning in the road. Although doesn't seem likely, since it would have had to have to fly up and around different ways to get there.

http://i61.tinypic.com/24f9uab.jpg
http://i61.tinypic.com/1252x60.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/sne0cx.jpg

Any ideas what might have caused something like this?

------

I just saw this about evaporating the water out of the radiator and leaving pure glycol which he says is flammable. http://www.croberts.com/coolant.htm I did have a hose pop off and spray coolant a couple of weeks ago, but the mixture at that time was 50/50. And it sprayed toward wheel well. Since then I have been checking every day or so and everything under the hood was dry before and after the burning. Just in case, I'm going to hose down the entire engine today.

Found some good info about sources of car fires...
http://depts.washington.edu/vehfire/homepage.html

Before going nuts pulling things apart, I will clean the battery connections and do a better check of wiring and charging circuit, replace the idler pulley and and look at cleaning or replacing the hood liner.

On Sun, 5 Apr 2015 10:08:25 -0700, "Fred James"
wrote:

Before going nuts pulling things apart, I will clean the battery connections and do a better check of wiring and charging circuit, replace the idler pulley and and look at cleaning or replacing the hood liner.


Is the noise from the idler pulley bearing damage or a belt? I can
imagine a bearing failure sending sparks under the hood.

Oren wrote:
On Sun, 5 Apr 2015 10:08:25 -0700, "Fred James"
wrote:

Before going nuts pulling things apart, I will clean the battery connections and do a better check of wiring and charging circuit, replace the idler pulley and and look at cleaning or replacing the hood liner.


Is the noise from the idler pulley bearing damage or a belt? I can
imagine a bearing failure sending sparks under the hood.

Hi,
'96 model has a recall in regard to electrical/ignition switch.

On Sun, 5 Apr 2015 10:08:25 -0700, "Fred James"
wrote:

"Fred James" wrote in message ...

I'm stumped with this one. What do you fellers think could have cause a spark? No damage. I'm not taking a chance in my shade tree skills with this one, but have to use the car tomorrow around town until the shop opens on Monday. Meanwhile, I put a fire extinguisher and a full 2 gallon weed sprayer in the front seat just in case.

Car was cold. Drove about 3 miles at 35mph or less. Parked. Then smelled asbestos burning. Popped the hood. A 6-inch diameter section of the hood liner over the battery had burned. I mashed the few embers that were still soldering around the edges.

Can't tell for sure, but the starting point could be a 1/16 inch depression that is darker than the rest near the center. If that's was it, my first thought was a red hot piece of metal, sand, etc, that had come from a pulley. Reason I say that is one of the idler pulleys has been squealing lately. Nothing else was hot or burned. Battery was cold, terminals tight, no corrosion, no sign of shorting. Checked every wire and connection I could see and all look OK.

Only other thought is that it picked up a cigarette or something burning in the road. Although doesn't seem likely, since it would have had to have to fly up and around different ways to get there.

http://i61.tinypic.com/24f9uab.jpg
http://i61.tinypic.com/1252x60.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/sne0cx.jpg

Any ideas what might have caused something like this?

------

I just saw this about evaporating the water out of the radiator and leaving pure glycol which he says is flammable. http://www.croberts.com/coolant.htm I did have a hose pop off and spray coolant a couple of weeks ago, but the mixture at that time was 50/50. And it sprayed toward wheel well. Since then I have been checking every day or so and everything under the hood was dry before and after the burning. Just in case, I'm going to hose down the entire engine today.

Found some good info about sources of car fires...
http://depts.washington.edu/vehfire/homepage.html

Before going nuts pulling things apart, I will clean the battery connections and do a better check of wiring and charging circuit, replace the idler pulley and and look at cleaning or replacing the hood liner.

If the idler was bad enough to cause that, the idler would have
basically come apart. If it hasn't, 9-+% chance it was not the idler.
Being above the battery I'd definitely be looking at an electrical
cause first and foremost if the idler is not very obviously overheated
and disintegrated.

On Sun, 05 Apr 2015 12:34:01 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Sun, 5 Apr 2015 10:08:25 -0700, "Fred James"
wrote:

Before going nuts pulling things apart, I will clean the battery connections and do a better check of wiring and charging circuit, replace the idler pulley and and look at cleaning or replacing the hood liner.


Is the noise from the idler pulley bearing damage or a belt? I can
imagine a bearing failure sending sparks under the hood.

Hi,
'96 model has a recall in regard to electrical/ignition switch.
Which most definitely will NOT cause the hood line to burn. The
ignition switch fires start under the dash and burn the van to the
ground from the inside out. - generally while parked with the ignition
off and no key in the ignition. (I've seen several of them go up in
flames)

On Sun, 05 Apr 2015 12:34:01 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Sun, 5 Apr 2015 10:08:25 -0700, "Fred James"
wrote:

Before going nuts pulling things apart, I will clean the battery connections and do a better check of wiring and charging circuit, replace the idler pulley and and look at cleaning or replacing the hood liner.


Is the noise from the idler pulley bearing damage or a belt? I can
imagine a bearing failure sending sparks under the hood.

Hi,
'96 model has a recall in regard to electrical/ignition switch.

I'd think the poster would have gotten a recall letter. I had one on
my '94 Bronco. They will nag you with follow-up letters until it is
resolved.

On Sun, 05 Apr 2015 14:45:25 -0400, wrote:

'96 model has a recall in regard to electrical/ignition switch.
Which most definitely will NOT cause the hood line to burn. The
ignition switch fires start under the dash and burn the van to the
ground from the inside out. - generally while parked with the ignition
off and no key in the ignition. (I've seen several of them go up in
flames)

My '94 Ford Bronco was recalled, related to the cruise control. The
vehicle could burn while you slept. Advised to remove them from
garages - just in case. They took a module (?) off at the master
cylinder? Gotta get that fixed grin

wrote in message ...
On Sun, 5 Apr 2015 10:08:25 -0700, "Fred James"
wrote:

"Fred James" wrote in message

I'm stumped with this one. What do you fellers think could have cause a spark? No damage. I'm not taking a chance in my shade tree skills with this one, but have to use the car tomorrow around town until the shop opens on Monday. Meanwhile, I put a fire extinguisher and a full 2 gallon weed sprayer in the front seat just in case.

Car was cold. Drove about 3 miles at 35mph or less. Parked. Then smelled asbestos burning. Popped the hood. A 6-inch diameter section of the hood liner over the battery had burned. I mashed the few embers that were still soldering around the edges.

Can't tell for sure, but the starting point could be a 1/16 inch depression that is darker than the rest near the center. If that's was it, my first thought was a red hot piece of metal, sand, etc, that had come from a pulley. Reason I say that is one of the idler pulleys has been squealing lately. Nothing else was hot or burned. Battery was cold, terminals tight, no corrosion, no sign of shorting. Checked every wire and connection I could see and all look OK.

Only other thought is that it picked up a cigarette or something burning in the road. Although doesn't seem likely, since it would have had to have to fly up and around different ways to get there.

http://i61.tinypic.com/24f9uab.jpg
http://i61.tinypic.com/1252x60.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/sne0cx.jpg

Any ideas what might have caused something like this?

------

I just saw this about evaporating the water out of the radiator and leaving pure glycol which he says is flammable. http://www.croberts.com/coolant.htm I did have a hose pop off and spray coolant a couple of weeks ago, but the mixture at that time was 50/50. And it sprayed toward wheel well. Since then I have been checking every day or so and everything under the hood was dry before and after the burning. Just in case, I'm going to hose down the entire engine today.

Found some good info about sources of car fires...
http://depts.washington.edu/vehfire/homepage.html

Before going nuts pulling things apart, I will clean the battery connections and do a better check of wiring and charging circuit, replace the idler pulley and and look at cleaning or replacing the hood liner.

If the idler was bad enough to cause that, the idler would have
basically come apart. If it hasn't, 9-+% chance it was not the idler.
Being above the battery I'd definitely be looking at an electrical
cause first and foremost if the idler is not very obviously overheated
and disintegrated.

Thanks, Clare. I'll keep looking but so far have not see any wiring troubles. Battery cables and connections were fine & tight -- just to be sure I pulled them off and cleaned them good.

Lots of guesses at what the hood liner is for. I always thought it was to muffle engine noise. Some folks are saying it's to help smoother engine fires. To me, it looks like a good place for oil and soot to collect and *start* a fire.

On Sun, 5 Apr 2015 12:16:48 -0700, "Fred James"
wrote:

wrote in message ...
On Sun, 5 Apr 2015 10:08:25 -0700, "Fred James"
wrote:

"Fred James" wrote in message

I'm stumped with this one. What do you fellers think could have cause a spark? No damage. I'm not taking a chance in my shade tree skills with this one, but have to use the car tomorrow around town until the shop opens on Monday. Meanwhile, I put a fire extinguisher and a full 2 gallon weed sprayer in the front seat just in case.

Car was cold. Drove about 3 miles at 35mph or less. Parked. Then smelled asbestos burning. Popped the hood. A 6-inch diameter section of the hood liner over the battery had burned. I mashed the few embers that were still soldering around the edges.

Can't tell for sure, but the starting point could be a 1/16 inch depression that is darker than the rest near the center. If that's was it, my first thought was a red hot piece of metal, sand, etc, that had come from a pulley. Reason I say that is one of the idler pulleys has been squealing lately. Nothing else was hot or burned. Battery was cold, terminals tight, no corrosion, no sign of shorting. Checked every wire and connection I could see and all look OK.

Only other thought is that it picked up a cigarette or something burning in the road. Although doesn't seem likely, since it would have had to have to fly up and around different ways to get there.

http://i61.tinypic.com/24f9uab.jpg
http://i61.tinypic.com/1252x60.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/sne0cx.jpg

Any ideas what might have caused something like this?

------

I just saw this about evaporating the water out of the radiator and leaving pure glycol which he says is flammable. http://www.croberts.com/coolant.htm I did have a hose pop off and spray coolant a couple of weeks ago, but the mixture at that time was 50/50. And it sprayed toward wheel well. Since then I have been checking every day or so and everything under the hood was dry before and after the burning. Just in case, I'm going to hose down the entire engine today.

Found some good info about sources of car fires...
http://depts.washington.edu/vehfire/homepage.html

Before going nuts pulling things apart, I will clean the battery connections and do a better check of wiring and charging circuit, replace the idler pulley and and look at cleaning or replacing the hood liner.

If the idler was bad enough to cause that, the idler would have
basically come apart. If it hasn't, 9-+% chance it was not the idler.
Being above the battery I'd definitely be looking at an electrical
cause first and foremost if the idler is not very obviously overheated
and disintegrated.

Thanks, Clare. I'll keep looking but so far have not see any wiring troubles. Battery cables and connections were fine & tight -- just to be sure I pulled them off and cleaned them good.

Lots of guesses at what the hood liner is for. I always thought it was to muffle engine noise. Some folks are saying it's to help smoother engine fires. To me, it looks like a good place for oil and soot to collect and *start* a fire.

On the "aero-scare" the pad searves 2 purposes., It cuts down engine
noise and it insulates the fiberglass hood from engine heat.

I've owned 2 Aerostars, and 2 brothers have owned 2 each as well. 1989
to 1997.

I had an Aerostar, and liked it. I'd buy another if they still made them.

I once found a depression in the hood liner pad.

(no fire though)

The cause was pretty obvious when I looked. I'd added oil and forgot to put the cap on. When I closed the hood the cap compressed the pad above it.

So here's my theory. You somehow had a piece of metal above the battery's hot terminal. Maybe a wrench or screwdriver left over from a repair, bottle cap, coke can, etc. It compressed the pad above it when you closed the lid. As you drove the pad wore enough to make contact, and you had current flow from the hot terminal to the grounded hood lid. When you opened the hood to check, the metal fell off and rolled away and you'll never find it.

On Sun, 5 Apr 2015 13:51:34 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

I had an Aerostar, and liked it. I'd buy another if they still made them.

I once found a depression in the hood liner pad.

(no fire though)

The cause was pretty obvious when I looked. I'd added oil and forgot to put the cap on. When I closed the hood the cap compressed the pad above it.

So here's my theory. You somehow had a piece of metal above the battery's hot terminal. Maybe a wrench or screwdriver left over from a repair, bottle cap, coke can, etc. It compressed the pad above it when you closed the lid. As you drove the pad wore enough to make contact, and you had current flow from the hot terminal to the grounded hood lid. When you opened the hood to check, the metal fell off and rolled away and you'll never find it.

Only problem with that theory is the Aerostar hood (and tailgate) are
fiberglass

On 4/5/2015 1:08 PM, Fred James wrote:
"Fred James" wrote in message ...

I'm stumped with this one. What do you fellers think could have cause a spark? No damage. I'm not taking a chance in my shade tree skills with this one, but have to use the car tomorrow around town until the shop opens on Monday. Meanwhile, I put a fire extinguisher and a full 2 gallon weed sprayer in the front seat just in case.

Car was cold. Drove about 3 miles at 35mph or less. Parked. Then smelled asbestos burning.

There is no asbestos and it is a mineral that does not burn.

Since it is above the battery, I'd think it could have been electrical.
Possible that a cat, squirrel, or other small animal started to build
a nest and brough up some material that shorted across the battery and
burned up leaving little visible residue. Wet dried out grass coud
evendo it.

On Sun, 05 Apr 2015 17:44:20 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 4/5/2015 1:08 PM, Fred James wrote:
"Fred James" wrote in message ...

I'm stumped with this one. What do you fellers think could have cause a spark? No damage. I'm not taking a chance in my shade tree skills with this one, but have to use the car tomorrow around town until the shop opens on Monday. Meanwhile, I put a fire extinguisher and a full 2 gallon weed sprayer in the front seat just in case.

Car was cold. Drove about 3 miles at 35mph or less. Parked. Then smelled asbestos burning.

There is no asbestos and it is a mineral that does not burn.

Since it is above the battery, I'd think it could have been electrical.
Possible that a cat, squirrel, or other small animal started to build
a nest and brough up some material that shorted across the battery and
burned up leaving little visible residue. Wet dried out grass coud
evendo it.
I have had a hot spot on the top of the battery in the Mystique -
looked like there had been a small fire at some time - - there were
maple keys all blackenned and charred -We had trouble with chipmunks
chewing on things (ate plug wires and vac hoses as well as the
underhood pad) and my suspicion is the rascal ****ed on the maple keys
on top of the battery, causing them to conduct to the hold-down
bracket and heat up.
No proof, but no other explanation.

On Sunday, April 5, 2015 at 5:20:33 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 5 Apr 2015 13:51:34 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

I had an Aerostar, and liked it. I'd buy another if they still made them.

I once found a depression in the hood liner pad.

(no fire though)

The cause was pretty obvious when I looked. I'd added oil and forgot to put the cap on. When I closed the hood the cap compressed the pad above it.

On 4/5/2015 1:08 PM, Fred James wrote:
"Fred James" wrote in
message ...

I'm stumped with this one. What do you fellers think
could have cause a spark? No damage. I'm not taking a
chance in my shade tree skills with this one, but have to
use the car tomorrow around town until the shop opens on
Monday. Meanwhile, I put a fire extinguisher and a full
2 gallon weed sprayer in the front seat just in case.

Car was cold. Drove about 3 miles at 35mph or less. Parked.
Then smelled asbestos burning. Popped the hood. A 6-inch
diameter section of the hood liner over the battery had
burned. I mashed the few embers that were still soldering
around the edges.

Can't tell for sure, but the starting point could be a
1/16 inch depression that is darker than the rest near
the center. If that's was it, my first thought was a red
hot piece of metal, sand, etc, that had come from a pulley.
Reason I say that is one of the idler pulleys has been
squealing lately. Nothing else was hot or burned. Battery
was cold, terminals tight, no corrosion, no sign of shorting.
Checked every wire and connection I could see and all look OK.

Only other thought is that it picked up a cigarette or some
thing burning in the road. Although doesn't seem likely, since
it would have had to have to fly up and around different ways
to get there.

http://i61.tinypic.com/24f9uab.jpg
http://i61.tinypic.com/1252x60.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/sne0cx.jpg

Any ideas what might have caused something like this?

------

I just saw this about evaporating the water out of the
radiator and leaving pure glycol which he says is flammable.
http://www.croberts.com/coolant.htm I did have a hose pop
off and spray coolant a couple of weeks ago, but the mixture
at that time was 50/50. And it sprayed toward wheel well.
Since then I have been checking every day or so and every
thing under the hood was dry before and after the burning.
Just in case, I'm going to hose down the entire engine today.

Found some good info about sources of car fires...
http://depts.washington.edu/vehfire/homepage.html

Before going nuts pulling things apart, I will clean the
battery connections and do a better check of wiring and
charging circuit, replace the idler pulley and and look at
cleaning or replacing the hood liner.


Battery post (top post, left side of photo) looks burned. Likely
touched the hood, shorted out.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 4/5/2015 2:45 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 05 Apr 2015 12:34:01 -0600, Tony Hwang
Hi,
'96 model has a recall in regard to electrical/ignition switch.
Which most definitely will NOT cause the hood line to burn. The
ignition switch fires start under the dash and burn the van to the
ground from the inside out. - generally while parked with the ignition
off and no key in the ignition. (I've seen several of them go up in
flames)


Sounds like NO fun at all, to have your vehicle
catch fire for NO visible reason. I'd NOT want
to wish that on anyone.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Sun, 05 Apr 2015 19:12:11 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 4/5/2015 1:08 PM, Fred James wrote:
"Fred James" wrote in
message ...

I'm stumped with this one. What do you fellers think
could have cause a spark? No damage. I'm not taking a
chance in my shade tree skills with this one, but have to
use the car tomorrow around town until the shop opens on
Monday. Meanwhile, I put a fire extinguisher and a full
2 gallon weed sprayer in the front seat just in case.

Car was cold. Drove about 3 miles at 35mph or less. Parked.
Then smelled asbestos burning. Popped the hood. A 6-inch
diameter section of the hood liner over the battery had
burned. I mashed the few embers that were still soldering
around the edges.

Can't tell for sure, but the starting point could be a
1/16 inch depression that is darker than the rest near
the center. If that's was it, my first thought was a red
hot piece of metal, sand, etc, that had come from a pulley.
Reason I say that is one of the idler pulleys has been
squealing lately. Nothing else was hot or burned. Battery
was cold, terminals tight, no corrosion, no sign of shorting.
Checked every wire and connection I could see and all look OK.

Only other thought is that it picked up a cigarette or some
thing burning in the road. Although doesn't seem likely, since
it would have had to have to fly up and around different ways
to get there.

http://i61.tinypic.com/24f9uab.jpg
http://i61.tinypic.com/1252x60.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/sne0cx.jpg

Any ideas what might have caused something like this?

------

I just saw this about evaporating the water out of the
radiator and leaving pure glycol which he says is flammable.
http://www.croberts.com/coolant.htm I did have a hose pop
off and spray coolant a couple of weeks ago, but the mixture
at that time was 50/50. And it sprayed toward wheel well.
Since then I have been checking every day or so and every
thing under the hood was dry before and after the burning.
Just in case, I'm going to hose down the entire engine today.

Found some good info about sources of car fires...
http://depts.washington.edu/vehfire/homepage.html

Before going nuts pulling things apart, I will clean the
battery connections and do a better check of wiring and
charging circuit, replace the idler pulley and and look at
cleaning or replacing the hood liner.


Battery post (top post, left side of photo) looks burned. Likely
touched the hood, shorted out.


You've never had the hood open on an Aerostar, eh???
Linda hard to short out the battery to a fiberglass hood.
-
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.

On 4/5/2015 8:41 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 05 Apr 2015 19:12:11 -0400, Stormin Mormon

Battery post (top post, left side of photo) looks burned. Likely
touched the hood, shorted out.


You've never had the hood open [Matter of fact, never
worked on or had much contact with them. Is it fiberglass?
News to me.]
on an Aerostar, eh???
Linda hard to short out the battery to a fiberglass hood.
-
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.


Center posted like your reply.
-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Sun, 5 Apr 2015 15:01:02 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

On Sunday, April 5, 2015 at 5:20:33 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 5 Apr 2015 13:51:34 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

I had an Aerostar, and liked it. I'd buy another if they still made them.

I once found a depression in the hood liner pad.

(no fire though)

The cause was pretty obvious when I looked. I'd added oil and forgot to put the cap on. When I closed the hood the cap compressed the pad above it.

So here's my theory. You somehow had a piece of metal above the battery's hot terminal. Maybe a wrench or screwdriver left over from a repair, bottle cap, coke can, etc. It compressed the pad above it when you closed the lid. As you drove the pad wore enough to make contact, and you had current flow from the hot terminal to the grounded hood lid. When you opened the hood to check, the metal fell off and rolled away and you'll never find it.

Only problem with that theory is the Aerostar hood (and tailgate) are
fiberglass


Yeah, that would definitely blow my theory.

Google suggests they come both ways. Mine seemed like steel but it's been a long time since I had that van.
Of the 6 aerostars our family owned, from 1989 to 1997, all were
glass hoods. 5 were Canadian Market, and 1 was a US market Eddie Bauer
IIRC. The only 2 parts of an Aerostar that didn't rust were the hood
and back door.

That said, I'd by a '97 if I could find a good one. (they finally
solved the body rust problems, then stopped making them). The '97 4
liter long body with the 5 speed automatic was a real nice package.

wrote in message news
On Sun, 5 Apr 2015 15:01:02 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

On Sunday, April 5, 2015 at 5:20:33 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 5 Apr 2015 13:51:34 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

I had an Aerostar, and liked it. I'd buy another if they still made them.

I once found a depression in the hood liner pad.

(no fire though)

The cause was pretty obvious when I looked. I'd added oil and forgot to put the cap on. When I closed the hood the cap compressed the pad above it.

So here's my theory. You somehow had a piece of metal above the battery's hot terminal. Maybe a wrench or screwdriver left over from a repair, bottle cap, coke can, etc. It compressed the pad above it when you closed the lid. As you drove the pad wore enough to make contact, and you had current flow from the hot terminal to the grounded hood lid. When you opened the hood to check, the metal fell off and rolled away and you'll never find it.

Only problem with that theory is the Aerostar hood (and tailgate) are
fiberglass


Yeah, that would definitely blow my theory.

Google suggests they come both ways. Mine seemed like steel but it's been a long time since I had that van.
Of the 6 aerostars our family owned, from 1989 to 1997, all were
glass hoods. 5 were Canadian Market, and 1 was a US market Eddie Bauer
IIRC. The only 2 parts of an Aerostar that didn't rust were the hood
and back door.

That said, I'd by a '97 if I could find a good one. (they finally
solved the body rust problems, then stopped making them). The '97 4
liter long body with the 5 speed automatic was a real nice package.

This one's definitely got a metal hood. Maybe it was replaced before I got the van?

I just remembers something that may or may not be related... A couple of weeks ago, I was sitting at light (daytime) and the current meter started oscillating up and down - just slightly. I would not have noticed it except I just happened to look. I raced the engine and it still was wavering. Next stop, I checked and it was steady again.

Today when I cranked the engine, I heard a 1/2 second chatter in the engine area on the drivers side. Never heard that before with this car. Like a solenoid does when something's getting ready to head south. Will check that out. Last time I bought a battery it was $60-70. Surprised that they are twice that at the auto parts places.

Battery post (top post, left side of photo) looks burned. Likely
touched the hood, shorted out.


+1

was someone perhaps sitting on the hood of the car and pressing it down at some point?

Mark

"Fred James" wrote in message ...
"Fred James" wrote in message ...

I'm stumped with this one. What do you fellers think could have cause a spark? No damage. I'm not taking a chance in my shade tree skills with this one, but have to use the car tomorrow around town until the shop opens on Monday. Meanwhile, I put a fire extinguisher and a full 2 gallon weed sprayer in the front seat just in case.

Car was cold. Drove about 3 miles at 35mph or less. Parked. Then smelled asbestos burning. Popped the hood. A 6-inch diameter section of the hood liner over the battery had burned. I mashed the few embers that were still soldering around the edges.

Can't tell for sure, but the starting point could be a 1/16 inch depression that is darker than the rest near the center. If that's was it, my first thought was a red hot piece of metal, sand, etc, that had come from a pulley. Reason I say that is one of the idler pulleys has been squealing lately. Nothing else was hot or burned. Battery was cold, terminals tight, no corrosion, no sign of shorting. Checked every wire and connection I could see and all look OK.

Only other thought is that it picked up a cigarette or something burning in the road. Although doesn't seem likely, since it would have had to have to fly up and around different ways to get there.

http://i61.tinypic.com/24f9uab.jpg
http://i61.tinypic.com/1252x60.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/sne0cx.jpg

Any ideas what might have caused something like this?

------

I just saw this about evaporating the water out of the radiator and leaving pure glycol which he says is flammable. http://www.croberts.com/coolant.htm I did have a hose pop off and spray coolant a couple of weeks ago, but the mixture at that time was 50/50. And it sprayed toward wheel well. Since then I have been checking every day or so and everything under the hood was dry before and after the burning. Just in case, I'm going to hose down the entire engine today.

Found some good info about sources of car fires...
http://depts.washington.edu/vehfire/homepage.html

Before going nuts pulling things apart, I will clean the battery connections and do a better check of wiring and charging circuit, replace the idler pulley and and look at cleaning or replacing the hood liner.

===

Long time shop checked it out and could not find any electrical or other possible ways the hood liner could have burned. Suggested could have been something picked up from the road, but no way to tell.

He also checked out engine which has been overheating lately and rough running. Said it was a leaking head gasket. Said the tan colored residue where coolant spilled out are from the engine leaking exhaust into the coolant. Gastket leak was also pressurizing the radiator and causing coolant to flow out the cap and was overflowing the reservoir.

Will send me an estimate for replacing head gasket and another for swapping out with a used engine.

No matter was the costs are, I have another mechanic I'll have check it out just to be sure. I bought it 10 years ago for $3000 and have only spent routine service on it, so if the cost is under $2K, I'll get 'er done. Other than that, it's a great work van - nothing like it new for under $25K.

Sound reasonable?

On 4/7/2015 1:02 AM, Fred James wrote:

I just saw this about evaporating the water out of
the radiator and leaving pure glycol which he says
is flammable. http://www.croberts.com/coolant.htm


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene_glycol
Flash point 232F (way, way over 100F) which makes
it combustible, not flammable.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
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On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 12:58:37 AM UTC-4, Fred James wrote:
He also checked out engine which has been overheating lately and rough running. Said it was a leaking head gasket. Said the tan colored residue where coolant spilled out are from the engine leaking exhaust into the coolant. Gastket leak was also pressurizing the radiator and causing coolant to flow out the cap and was overflowing the reservoir.

A head gasket will cost you about $3500 and a rebuilt engine the same. If you like the van (I did) I'd do it in a heartbeat.

How's the transmission? It's about time for that to go, you might want to think about biting both bullets.

On 4/7/2015 8:06 AM, TimR wrote:

A head gasket will cost you about $3500 and a rebuilt engine the same. If you like the van (I did) I'd do it in a heartbeat.

How's the transmission? It's about time for that to go, you might want to think about biting both bullets.


When it is all done, your $3500 investment will give you a vehicle worth
about $2000. You have to really, really, really, like it to make that
sort of investment. Don't make it part of your retirement portfolio.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
news
On 4/7/2015 8:06 AM, TimR wrote:

A head gasket will cost you about $3500 and a rebuilt engine the same.
If you like the van (I did) I'd do it in a heartbeat.

How's the transmission? It's about time for that to go, you might want
to think about biting both bullets.


When it is all done, your $3500 investment will give you a vehicle worth
about $2000. You have to really, really, really, like it to make that
sort of investment. Don't make it part of your retirement portfolio.

Vehicle worth is hard to determin. While he may put $ 3500 in the engine
and some more in the transmission if it goes out, he should be good for
another 100,000 plus miles. If he looks at a used vehicle it will have lots
of miles on it.

I drove a car that had almost 200,000 miles on it before I was looking to
trade it in. I had driven the thing way past the point the timing belt was
recommended to be changed. As it would cost what if not more than the
vehicle was worth, I was gambling the belt would not break before I bought
something else. I bought a new car and kept the old one as someone at work
wanted it. I sold it to him at the price ($ 500) I was going to be allowed
on a socalled trade in. He knew that the belt was way over due because I
told him. Not sure what he did with the car as he was actually buying it
for someone else.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message ...
On 4/7/2015 1:02 AM, Fred James wrote:

I just saw this about evaporating the water out of
the radiator and leaving pure glycol which he says
is flammable. http://www.croberts.com/coolant.htm


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene_glycol
Flash point 232F (way, way over 100F) which makes
it combustible, not flammable.

Doesn't sound likely to me either. But I'm gonna not going to fool around with a head gasket leaking a fuel/air mixture into the radiator, pressurizing it and then venting it into the engine compartment.

I'm thinking of running a hose temporarily from the rad cap overflow out the side of the car to keep the fume away from hot parts until I can get the repair done.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message news
On 4/7/2015 8:06 AM, TimR wrote:

A head gasket will cost you about $3500 and a rebuilt engine the same. If you like the van (I did) I'd do it in a heartbeat.

How's the transmission? It's about time for that to go, you might want to think about biting both bullets.


When it is all done, your $3500 investment will give you a vehicle worth
about $2000. You have to really, really, really, like it to make that
sort of investment. Don't make it part of your retirement portfolio.

Remember, I'm not going to fix it and sell it right away -- I'm looking at the next 5 years. Also there's more to consider than just repair and resell value.

This would be a good analysis if you have time to get the info. I have done this in the past and don't need to do it again.

If you have time, look up and post the purchase price of an equiv Ford van from a dealer less any trade-in value of the '96 in this condition. List the cost of Calif state & San Diego city/county sales tax, registration and other required DMV costs, plus the annual costs of Calif registration for both vehicles for the next 5 years. Use $3500 as the original purchase price for the 96.

"Fred James" wrote in message ...
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message news
On 4/7/2015 8:06 AM, TimR wrote:

A head gasket will cost you about $3500 and a rebuilt engine the same. If you like the van (I did) I'd do it in a heartbeat.

How's the transmission? It's about time for that to go, you might want to think about biting both bullets.


When it is all done, your $3500 investment will give you a vehicle worth
about $2000. You have to really, really, really, like it to make that
sort of investment. Don't make it part of your retirement portfolio.

Remember, I'm not going to fix it and sell it right away -- I'm looking at the next 5 years. Also there's more to consider than just repair and resell value.

This would be a good analysis if you have time to get the info. I have done this in the past and don't need to do it again.

If you have time, look up and post the purchase price of an equiv Ford van from a dealer less any trade-in value of the '96 in this condition. List the cost of Calif state & San Diego city/county sales tax, registration and other required DMV costs, plus the annual costs of Calif registration for both vehicles for the next 5 years. Use $3500 as the original purchase price for the 96.

PS - Some basic vehicle state fees due on purchased vehicles...

Vehicle License Fee – 2% of purchase price (also due annually)
($3500 = $70 fee; $15000 = $300 fee)

SD County Fees – ?
Registration Fee CVRA vehicles $122;
California Highway Patrol Fee $37;
Smog Abatement Fee $20;

On Tue, 07 Apr 2015 10:06:46 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 4/7/2015 8:06 AM, TimR wrote:

A head gasket will cost you about $3500 and a rebuilt engine the same. If you like the van (I did) I'd do it in a heartbeat.

How's the transmission? It's about time for that to go, you might want to think about biting both bullets.


When it is all done, your $3500 investment will give you a vehicle worth
about $2000. You have to really, really, really, like it to make that
sort of investment. Don't make it part of your retirement portfolio.
It's not what the van is worth - it's what it will cost to replace it
with something that will do the same job, and that you can live with.
If the body/chassis is solid, I'd say go for it. How many miles on the
old beast?? If the rest of the engine is good a set oif heads might be
a good investment. Getting a good used engine for it isn't as easy as
it used to be since most of the Aerostars are long gone - but a Ranger
engine will fit and there are lots of them around. Not sure if the
Ranger tranny is the same or not.. If so, get a "heart and lung
transplant" -change the pair.

"Fred James" writes:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message =
news
On 4/7/2015 8:06 AM, TimR wrote:
=20
A head gasket will cost you about $3500 and a rebuilt engine the =
same. If you like the van (I did) I'd do it in a heartbeat.

How's the transmission? It's about time for that to go, you might =
want to think about biting both bullets.

=20
When it is all done, your $3500 investment will give you a vehicle =
worth=20
about $2000. You have to really, really, really, like it to make that =

sort of investment. Don't make it part of your retirement portfolio.

Remember, I'm not going to fix it and sell it right away -- I'm looking =
at the next 5 years. Also there's more to consider than just repair and =
resell value.

This would be a good analysis if you have time to get the info. I have =
done this in the past and don't need to do it again.

If you have time, look up and post the purchase price of an equiv Ford =
van from a dealer less any trade-in value of the '96 in this condition. =
List the cost of Calif state & San Diego city/county sales tax, =
registration and other required DMV costs, plus the annual costs of =
Calif registration for both vehicles for the next 5 years. Use $3500 as =
the original purchase price for the 96.



The registration cost for that vehicle would be less than
$20 per year in California. Anyone asking $3500 for a 1996 Ford
van is ripping you off.

On Tue, 7 Apr 2015 05:06:53 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 12:58:37 AM UTC-4, Fred James wrote:
He also checked out engine which has been overheating lately and rough running. Said it was a leaking head gasket. Said the tan colored residue where coolant spilled out are from the engine leaking exhaust into the coolant. Gastket leak was also pressurizing the radiator and causing coolant to flow out the cap and was overflowing the reservoir.

A head gasket will cost you about $3500 and a rebuilt engine the same. If you like the van (I did) I'd do it in a heartbeat.


Cost of a head gasket is cheap. The cost of install is what gets you.
Machining the head is another cost.

How's the transmission? It's about time for that to go, you might want to think about biting both bullets.

Consider half life on the unit. Can you fix it for less than 30% of
the unit value.

My '94 Ford Bronco 351W engine is still kicking.

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message ...
"Fred James" writes:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message =
news
On 4/7/2015 8:06 AM, TimR wrote:
=20
A head gasket will cost you about $3500 and a rebuilt engine the =
same. If you like the van (I did) I'd do it in a heartbeat.

How's the transmission? It's about time for that to go, you might =
want to think about biting both bullets.

=20
When it is all done, your $3500 investment will give you a vehicle =
worth=20
about $2000. You have to really, really, really, like it to make that =

sort of investment. Don't make it part of your retirement portfolio.

Remember, I'm not going to fix it and sell it right away -- I'm looking =
at the next 5 years. Also there's more to consider than just repair and =
resell value.

This would be a good analysis if you have time to get the info. I have =
done this in the past and don't need to do it again.

If you have time, look up and post the purchase price of an equiv Ford =
van from a dealer less any trade-in value of the '96 in this condition. =
List the cost of Calif state & San Diego city/county sales tax, =
registration and other required DMV costs, plus the annual costs of =
Calif registration for both vehicles for the next 5 years. Use $3500 as =
the original purchase price for the 96.


The registration cost for that vehicle would be less than
$20 per year in California. Anyone asking $3500 for a 1996 Ford
van is ripping you off.

No way, Jose. Calif DMV page lists a list of fees and taxes that are paid when first registering a purchased car. Plus 8-9% sales tax depending on the county - not reg fee but still is paid to the state.

$3500 was the amount I paid several years ago. Annual reg is 2% of the purchase price - $70/year.

wrote in message ...
On Tue, 07 Apr 2015 10:06:46 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 4/7/2015 8:06 AM, TimR wrote:

A head gasket will cost you about $3500 and a rebuilt engine the same. If you like the van (I did) I'd do it in a heartbeat.

How's the transmission? It's about time for that to go, you might want to think about biting both bullets.


When it is all done, your $3500 investment will give you a vehicle worth
about $2000. You have to really, really, really, like it to make that
sort of investment. Don't make it part of your retirement portfolio.
It's not what the van is worth - it's what it will cost to replace it
with something that will do the same job, and that you can live with.
If the body/chassis is solid, I'd say go for it. How many miles on the
old beast?? If the rest of the engine is good a set oif heads might be
a good investment. Getting a good used engine for it isn't as easy as
it used to be since most of the Aerostars are long gone - but a Ranger
engine will fit and there are lots of them around. Not sure if the
Ranger tranny is the same or not.. If so, get a "heart and lung
transplant" -change the pair.

Ditto. Looking at it as an investment, every time I put gas in the tank I'm making an investment.

"Fred James" wrote

I'm stumped with this one. What do you fellers think could have cause a spark?

Last night, the engine would not turn over. Clicking noise coming from top of engine compartment - not from below. Arms or neck not long enough to turn key and see under the hood at the same time. Only things that would click are solenoid and starter relay mounted on the driver side fender. Definitely not the solenoid. Borg relay is $24 at the local part house, $13 for cheap version.

Before replacing relay, I checked voltage - was 12.7V, but when turned the key, dropped to 5-6V. Put charger on it, checked again later, no change. Pulled the battery terminals off, wires were pretty much green, cleaned all. One negative terminal nut was spinning in the clamp where the relay wire connected, replaced screw & nut. Started up right away. Off voltage is 12.7. Started so quickly, the voltage didn't go below 12. When running, can't remember exactly what V was but was stable and where it should be.

Also noticed red insulation on the hot wire under the clamp was black. When I removed the battery cover, I found a piece of a paper towel near the neutral terminal that had evidently blown in. A piece of it could have blown up and caught fire.

Learned that it's easier to find info searching for Ranger, etc. Ford Explorer, Aerostar, Ranger, Mercury Mountaineer all seem to have a lot of common parts.

Some helpful links:
http://www.autozone.com/repairguides...96b43f802c5540

http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/for...e-alternator-1

On Mon, 13 Apr 2015 04:43:41 -0700, "Fred James"
wrote:

"Fred James" wrote

I'm stumped with this one. What do you fellers think could have cause a spark?

Last night, the engine would not turn over. Clicking noise coming from top of engine compartment - not from below. Arms or neck not long enough to turn key and see under the hood at the same time. Only things that would click are solenoid and starter relay mounted on the driver side fender. Definitely not the solenoid. Borg relay is $24 at the local part house, $13 for cheap version.

Before replacing relay, I checked voltage - was 12.7V, but when turned the key, dropped to 5-6V. Put charger on it, checked again later, no change. Pulled the battery terminals off, wires were pretty much green, cleaned all. One negative terminal nut was spinning in the clamp where the relay wire connected, replaced screw & nut. Started up right away. Off voltage is 12.7. Started so quickly, the voltage didn't go below 12. When running, can't remember exactly what V was but was stable and where it should be.

Also noticed red insulation on the hot wire under the clamp was black. When I removed the battery cover, I found a piece of a paper towel near the neutral terminal that had evidently blown in. A piece of it could have blown up and caught fire.

Learned that it's easier to find info searching for Ranger, etc. Ford Explorer, Aerostar, Ranger, Mercury Mountaineer all seem to have a lot of common parts.

Some helpful links:
http://www.autozone.com/repairguides...96b43f802c5540

http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/for...e-alternator-1

So the bad pattery post connection got hot sometime in the past and
caused the little fire.
Fords need REAL GOOD connections or they do the "tat-a-tat-tat" relay
chatter and don't start. A low battery on a chevy will crank slowly -
on a Ford it just laughs at you.