In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" -cdt-this wrote:

Kwikset, some of the better gear is OK, avoid
Smartkey, which is unproven technology.

I am not a locksmith, just a home owner with locks. I have about 16
Kwikset Smartkey locksets or deadbolts installed in two houses, and have
had no problems with them. It was easy to key them alike, and would be
easy to re-key them if a key were lost. (I ended up with lots of extra
keys to choose from!)

I have done searches on Smartkey and found a few critics of the system,
but also reports that they were secure. One critic suggested they were
bad because a locksmith could not use conventional methods to open them
without a key.

Besides Smartkey being "unproven technology", what other drawbacks are
there?

Fred

"Fred McKenzie" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" -cdt-this wrote:

Kwikset, some of the better gear is OK, avoid
Smartkey, which is unproven technology.

I am not a locksmith, just a home owner with locks. I have about 16
Kwikset Smartkey locksets or deadbolts installed in two houses, and have
had no problems with them. It was easy to key them alike, and would be
easy to re-key them if a key were lost. (I ended up with lots of extra
keys to choose from!)

I have done searches on Smartkey and found a few critics of the system,
but also reports that they were secure. One critic suggested they were
bad because a locksmith could not use conventional methods to open them
without a key.

Besides Smartkey being "unproven technology", what other drawbacks are
there?

Fred

http://www.wired.com/2013/08/kwikset...ey-lock-vulns/

although I don't see this as being any less secure than a standard Kwikset
lock, which is pretty easy to pick.

On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 12:20:04 PM UTC-6, Fred McKenzie wrote:

Since you're cutting-out calling a tradesman...I'm sure you will hear a lot of negatives...
I'm not sure how they compare in security...but most houses are forced open by breaking the door frame anyway!

On Wed, 10 Dec 2014 13:19:56 -0500, Fred McKenzie
wrote:

Besides Smartkey being "unproven technology", what other drawbacks are
there?

Can't use them in jails, prisons or court houses? g

I have a Smart key set still in the plastic. One day I'll put it in a
door when I get a 'round-tuit'. I see no problem for an average
apartment/rental property or home, using them.

On 12/10/2014 1:19 PM, Fred McKenzie wrote:
In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" -cdt-this wrote:

Kwikset, some of the better gear is OK, avoid
Smartkey, which is unproven technology.

I am not a locksmith, just a home owner with locks. I have about 16
Kwikset Smartkey locksets or deadbolts installed in two houses, and have
had no problems with them. It was easy to key them alike, and would be
easy to re-key them if a key were lost. (I ended up with lots of extra
keys to choose from!)

I have done searches on Smartkey and found a few critics of the system,
but also reports that they were secure. One critic suggested they were
bad because a locksmith could not use conventional methods to open them
without a key.

Besides Smartkey being "unproven technology", what other drawbacks are
there?

Fred

I saw a Youtube video put up by an amateur.
He used a screw driver and pliers to unlock
Smartkey in less than a couple seconds with
no damage or evidence. This is your Smart
key on screw driver. Any questions?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Wed, 10 Dec 2014 14:51:51 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

I saw a Youtube video put up by an amateur.
He used a screw driver and pliers to unlock
Smartkey in less than a couple seconds with
no damage or evidence. This is your Smart
key on screw driver. Any questions?

"Bump key"

_Lock bumping_

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_bumping

Locks are for HONEST people.

bob_villa wrote:
On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 12:20:04 PM UTC-6, Fred McKenzie
wrote:

Since you're cutting-out calling a tradesman...I'm sure you will hear
a lot of negatives...
I'm not sure how they compare in security...but most houses are
forced open by breaking the door frame anyway!

Which is why several houses down in Memphis have custom made 3/32" thick
strike plates with 4" screws into the framing . Several of my former home
repair customers live in less-than-desirable neighborhoods , and were
concerned about security . I machined and installed custom strike plates for
them , one-piece units that had a minimum of 4 - 4" screws into the framing
.. Small chance of splitting that door frame with less than a battering ram .

--
Snag

On 12/10/2014 3:59 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Which is why several houses down in Memphis have custom made 3/32" thick
strike plates with 4" screws into the framing . Several of my former home
repair customers live in less-than-desirable neighborhoods , and were
concerned about security . I machined and installed custom strike plates for
them , one-piece units that had a minimum of 4 - 4" screws into the framing
.. Small chance of splitting that door frame with less than a battering ram .


Twenty some years ago, I started using
three inch screws for deadbolt strike
plates. Since then, some other companies
have done much the same. Reinforcing
strikes are excellent idea.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Wed, 10 Dec 2014 13:19:56 -0500, Fred McKenzie wrote:

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" -cdt-this wrote:

Kwikset, some of the better gear is OK, avoid
Smartkey, which is unproven technology.

I am not a locksmith, just a home owner with locks. I have about 16
Kwikset Smartkey locksets or deadbolts installed in two houses, and have
had no problems with them. It was easy to key them alike, and would be
easy to re-key them if a key were lost. (I ended up with lots of extra
keys to choose from!)

I have done searches on Smartkey and found a few critics of the system,
but also reports that they were secure. One critic suggested they were
bad because a locksmith could not use conventional methods to open them
without a key.

Besides Smartkey being "unproven technology", what other drawbacks are
there?

What positives are there?. That is, What makes a smartkey smart? It
might well be something I want.

Fred

On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 9:00:44 PM UTC-6, micky wrote:
That is, What makes a smartkey smart? It
might be something I want.

How ironic!

On 12/10/2014 10:00 PM, micky wrote:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2014 13:19:56 -0500, Fred McKenzie wrote:

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" -cdt-this wrote:

Kwikset, some of the better gear is OK, avoid
Smartkey, which is unproven technology.

I am not a locksmith, just a home owner with locks. I have about 16
Kwikset Smartkey locksets or deadbolts installed in two houses, and have
had no problems with them. It was easy to key them alike, and would be
easy to re-key them if a key were lost. (I ended up with lots of extra
keys to choose from!)

I have done searches on Smartkey and found a few critics of the system,
but also reports that they were secure. One critic suggested they were
bad because a locksmith could not use conventional methods to open them
without a key.

Besides Smartkey being "unproven technology", what other drawbacks are
there?

What positives are there?. That is, Makes it possible for the home owner to change the code of the lock, without taking the lock apart. So you can lock out the old keys and not get dirty. Also doesn't take much skill. What makes a smartkey smart? It
might well be something I want.

Fred



-
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 12/10/2014 2:02 PM, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2014 14:51:51 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

I saw a Youtube video put up by an amateur.
He used a screw driver and pliers to unlock
Smartkey in less than a couple seconds with
no damage or evidence. This is your Smart
key on screw driver. Any questions?

"Bump key"

_Lock bumping_

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_bumping

Locks are for HONEST people.

A few years ago one of our local TV channels had a
report on bump keys. The reporter bought a set and
tried them out. They worked as advertised. When
she asked the police about them they were rather
dismissive. Most burglars don't bother. They just
kick the door open.

In fact I thought of that just recently when they did
another about being able to buy replacement keys off of
the internet. If you take 2 pictures of your key and
send them to some company they will send you new ones
that work fine. My first thought is that most burglars
don't do that much planning, and they will still mostly
just kick the door open.

Bill Gill

On Thu, 11 Dec 2014 08:11:21 -0600, Bill Gill
wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_bumping

Locks are for HONEST people.

A few years ago one of our local TV channels had a
report on bump keys. The reporter bought a set and
tried them out. They worked as advertised. When
she asked the police about them they were rather
dismissive. Most burglars don't bother. They just
kick the door open.

In fact I thought of that just recently when they did
another about being able to buy replacement keys off of
the internet. If you take 2 pictures of your key and
send them to some company they will send you new ones
that work fine. My first thought is that most burglars
don't do that much planning, and they will still mostly
just kick the door open.

I local burglar crawled through a "doggie door". The home behind that
house was vacant (for sale) so the crooks jumped the fence into the
back yard and passed the stolen items back across the fence (in
daylight hours).

Kicking in the door will leave forensic evidence (shoe print on the
door). An easy method of entry is a spring loaded punch to break a
tempered window glass pane. Very quite.

I've installed 2 of these kwikset smartkey locks,
but I haven't tried changing either one yet...

I think this brand is rated good by Consumer Reports,
one reason I bought them,
and they look and work just like real locks...

marc

On Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:36:12 -0800 (PST), wrote:

I've installed 2 of these kwikset smartkey locks,
but I haven't tried changing either one yet...

I think this brand is rated good by Consumer Reports,
one reason I bought them,
and they look and work just like real locks...


marc,

.... "kwikset smartkey locks" ARE real locks for an average residential
door lock. _Smartkey_ is simply the ability to change keys in a
moment or two.

chuckle

On 12/10/14 1:39 PM, Reggie wrote:
although I don't see this as being any less secure than a standard Kwikset
lock, which is pretty easy to pick.

These questions is off-topic, but related to the comment above.

I'm looking to replace my front door and will need a lockset.

I see several brands offered at the "big home box" places, such as:
- Kwikset
- Baldwin
- Schlage

All things being otherwise equal, is there one of these brand names I
would do better with (over the others)?

Are there other mfrs. out there that I should be looking at?

Are the locksets sold by "standalone" locksmiths better than the "big
box" offerings?

Thanks,
- John

On 12/11/2014 5:26 PM, John Albert wrote:
I'm looking to replace my front door and will need a lockset.

I see several brands offered at the "big home box" places, such as:
- Kwikset
- Baldwin
- Schlage

All things being otherwise equal, is there one of these brand names I
would do better with (over the others)?

Are there other mfrs. out there that I should be looking at?

Are the locksets sold by "standalone" locksmiths better than the "big
box" offerings?

Thanks,
- John

Baldwin is more pricey, but better quality.
Their customer service is also good.

Some Kwikset is OK. Schlage changed designs
a few years back, I no longer like their resi
locks. Schlage commercial is still good.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Stormin Mormon wrote:

Schlage commercial is still good.

My impression is that all the lock manufacturers have similar quality (minimal)
to meet big box price points for residential customers. If you want a quality
lock, it's going to have to be commercial or architectural grade. That said,
Most break-ins are going to be a foot through the door or a rock through a
window, so I wouldn't get too worked up about it.

On 12/11/2014 11:59 AM, Oren wrote:
Kicking in the door will leave forensic evidence (shoe print on the
door). An easy method of entry is a spring loaded punch to break a
tempered window glass pane. Very quite.
Maybe you have smarter burglars than we do. Around here the
standard entry technique is to kick the door open or break a
window. Our burglars are into the quick and dirty way.

Bill

In article aukk8atr3uu8ib33f2stvb8ll18gbl99fi@None,
Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:

Schlage commercial is still good.

My impression is that all the lock manufacturers have similar quality
(minimal)
to meet big box price points for residential customers. If you want a quality
lock, it's going to have to be commercial or architectural grade. That said,
Most break-ins are going to be a foot through the door or a rock through a
window, so I wouldn't get too worked up about it.

My only "break in" was a chunk of concrete thrown through a door window.
They could not get in because the deadbolt required a key on the inside
as well. However, they were able to reach in and grab a small TV.

In article ,
"Reggie" wrote:
http://www.wired.com/2013/08/kwikset...ey-lock-vulns/

In article ,
Oren wrote:
"Bump key"
_Lock bumping_
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_bumping

These are eye-openers! And I see there were other articles on
lock-picking as well. If you want to learn how to get past a lock, just
look on the web.

Fred

On 12/11/14 9:36 PM, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:
My impression is that all the lock manufacturers have similar quality (minimal)
to meet big box price points for residential customers. If you want a quality
lock, it's going to have to be commercial or architectural grade. That said,
Most break-ins are going to be a foot through the door or a rock through a
window, so I wouldn't get too worked up about it.

Thanks for the response.

Also wondering, which is better way to go, or -- no difference:
1. Have a carpenter/remodeler replace front entrance (assume
he'll install the lock hardware as well, after I buy it)
or
2. Go to a locksmith and buy the hardware, and see if he has
arrangements with one (or more) carpenters who will do the
door job, after which the locksmith installs the hardware?

Whole entrance needs replacement (door, baseplate, all
interior/exterior molding, hardware).

On 12/13/2014 11:18 AM, John Albert wrote:
Also wondering, which is better way to go, or -- no difference:
1. Have a carpenter/remodeler replace front entrance (assume he'll
install the lock hardware as well, after I buy it)
or
2. Go to a locksmith and buy the hardware, and see if he has
arrangements with one (or more) carpenters who will do the door job,
after which the locksmith installs the hardware?

Whole entrance needs replacement (door, baseplate, all interior/exterior
molding, hardware).

Ideally, have the carpenter put in the door, and
later the same day, the locksmith to install the
locks. Some locksmiths will only install the locks
they sell, so call ahead of time to be sure.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Sat, 13 Dec 2014 11:18:09 -0500, John Albert
wrote:

Thanks for the response.

Also wondering, which is better way to go, or -- no difference:
1. Have a carpenter/remodeler replace front entrance (assume
he'll install the lock hardware as well, after I buy it)
or
2. Go to a locksmith and buy the hardware, and see if he has
arrangements with one (or more) carpenters who will do the
door job, after which the locksmith installs the hardware?

Whole entrance needs replacement (door, baseplate, all
interior/exterior molding, hardware).

I'll comment. The door installer should have the ability to remove
your trim, door etc., and prepare the rough opening (RO) for the new
door and trim material. Also know how to insolate the door jamb in the
RO. The same door installer can install the locks (you pick). I'd
suggest one 4" screw in each hinge plate, into the jack stud...careful
not to torque the door jamb (pulling) at the frame. Screws on the
latch plates also into the jack studs. The door will have shims. I
use screws instead on nails to secure the doorjamb , when I can do
so. The outside trim needs to be weather "proofed" to reduce water
intrusion.

If the installer shows up without a long level and a measuring tape --
send him home

What measurements for your door?

....jack stud shown:

Pic:
http://www.handymanhowto.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Rough-Opening.jpg

https://tinyurl.com/n77yp9u

On 12/13/14 2:48 PM, Oren wrote:
What measurements for your door?

Thanks for the image URL.

Door is 32" wide, looks to be 79 or 80" high.

Probably the original front door -- house was built in 1911,
I believe.

On Sat, 13 Dec 2014 22:05:52 -0500, John Albert
wrote:

On 12/13/14 2:48 PM, Oren wrote:
What measurements for your door?

Thanks for the image URL.

Door is 32" wide, looks to be 79 or 80" high.

Probably the original front door -- house was built in 1911,
I believe.

Interesting. Front entry doors today, I understand, are 36" wide.
Facilitates moving furniture in and out of the home or for fire exit.

If you have a local architectural restoration society, contact members
or the city code office. The home may be a historical site - 1911?