Once in a while in cowboy movie, someone wakes up in the morning and
turns up the kerosene lantern, without lighting it.

Is it actually possible to keep a small flame burning all night, small
enough that it doesn't waste substantial money by burning all night, at
cowboy-era prices?

"micky" wrote in message
...
Once in a while in cowboy movie, someone wakes up in the morning and
turns up the kerosene lantern, without lighting it.

Is it actually possible to keep a small flame burning all night, small
enough that it doesn't waste substantial money by burning all night, at
cowboy-era prices?

That never made any sense to me, but it probably was just to save time in
the movie.

What surprises me more is when they turn down a lamp in the bedroom, the
room goes dark, and they their heads and pillows become lit up - as if they
were on a movie set or something!

On Sat, 23 Aug 2014 19:25:09 -0400, micky
wrote:

Once in a while in cowboy movie, someone wakes up in the morning and
turns up the kerosene lantern, without lighting it.

Is it actually possible to keep a small flame burning all night, small
enough that it doesn't waste substantial money by burning all night, at
cowboy-era prices?


You can get the pretty low but there will be a little light. Not
quite like TV though.

micky wrote:
Once in a while in cowboy movie, someone wakes up in the morning and
turns up the kerosene lantern, without lighting it.

Is it actually possible to keep a small flame burning all night, small
enough that it doesn't waste substantial money by burning all night, at
cowboy-era prices?

Hi,
Even smallest flame gives out some heat. In dead winter that can make
quite a difference. Read the story about Napoleon's men dying from
freezing sleeping in tent but ones who had a candle burning did not die.

Tony Hwang wrote in :

micky wrote:
Once in a while in cowboy movie, someone wakes up in the morning and
turns up the kerosene lantern, without lighting it.

Is it actually possible to keep a small flame burning all night, small
enough that it doesn't waste substantial money by burning all night, at
cowboy-era prices?

Hi,
Even smallest flame gives out some heat. In dead winter that can make
quite a difference. Read the story about Napoleon's men dying from
freezing sleeping in tent but ones who had a candle burning did not die.

A single candle puts out enough heat to make the difference, in a Russian winter, between
life and death?

Yeah, riiiiiight.

Doug Miller wrote:
Tony Hwang wrote in :

micky wrote:
Once in a while in cowboy movie, someone wakes up in the morning and
turns up the kerosene lantern, without lighting it.

Is it actually possible to keep a small flame burning all night, small
enough that it doesn't waste substantial money by burning all night, at
cowboy-era prices?

Hi,
Even smallest flame gives out some heat. In dead winter that can make
quite a difference. Read the story about Napoleon's men dying from
freezing sleeping in tent but ones who had a candle burning did not die.

A single candle puts out enough heat to make the difference, in a Russian winter, between
life and death?

Yeah, riiiiiight.

Hi,
I spent quite a bit of time as Scout leader when my boy was growing up.
Obviously you never slept out door in dead winter or have survival
training? Canadian winter is pretty deadly too. Read the book about
Napoleon's expedition to Russia.

micky wrote:

Is it actually possible to keep a small flame burning all night, small
enough that it doesn't waste substantial money by burning all night, at
cowboy-era prices?

Anything is possible in a TV studio. One thing they don't show you in those
cowboy movies is what happens when some cowboy used to blowing out the
kerosene lamp at bedtime goes to one of those fancy hotels with the new-
fangled gas lights.

wrote in message
news
On Sat, 23 Aug 2014 16:38:39 -0700, "Pico Rico"
wrote:


"micky" wrote in message
. ..
Once in a while in cowboy movie, someone wakes up in the morning and
turns up the kerosene lantern, without lighting it.

Is it actually possible to keep a small flame burning all night, small
enough that it doesn't waste substantial money by burning all night, at
cowboy-era prices?

That never made any sense to me, but it probably was just to save time in
the movie.

What surprises me more is when they turn down a lamp in the bedroom, the
room goes dark, and they their heads and pillows become lit up - as if
they
were on a movie set or something!


I assume that is just rich people who keep the lantern burning all
night. For your basic farmer, when the lights are out the will usually
be out until sunup.

farmers got up well before sunup, and thus lit the lanterns before sunup.
Still do.

On Saturday, August 23, 2014 4:38:39 PM UTC-7, Pico Rico wrote:
"micky" wrote in message

...

Once in a while in cowboy movie, someone wakes up in the morning and

turns up the kerosene lantern, without lighting it.



Is it actually possible to keep a small flame burning all night, small

enough that it doesn't waste substantial money by burning all night, at

cowboy-era prices?



That never made any sense to me, but it probably was just to save time in

the movie.



What surprises me more is when they turn down a lamp in the bedroom, the

room goes dark, and they their heads and pillows become lit up - as if they

were on a movie set or something!

That's EXACTLY where they were. The gaffer (in the Industry the person in charge of lighting the set) designs the light to fall where and how intensely the director wants it.

HB

On Saturday, August 23, 2014 7:27:24 PM UTC-7, Doug Miller wrote:
Tony Hwang wrote in :



micky wrote:

Once in a while in cowboy movie, someone wakes up in the morning and

turns up the kerosene lantern, without lighting it.



Is it actually possible to keep a small flame burning all night, small

enough that it doesn't waste substantial money by burning all night, at

cowboy-era prices?



Hi,

Even smallest flame gives out some heat. In dead winter that can make

quite a difference. Read the story about Napoleon's men dying from

freezing sleeping in tent but ones who had a candle burning did not die..



A single candle puts out enough heat to make the difference, in a Russian winter, between

life and death?

Yeah, riiiiiight.

Depending how well insulated the tent was, between the candle and the men's body heat, it's possible.

The Inuit -- before the whites destroyed their 10,000-year-old culture - could build an igloo expertly very quickly. Once inside & sealed up, they lit a stone lamp burning seal oil. It would make the igloo so warm that the Inuit slept naked between fur blankets.

HB

On 8/23/2014 9:55 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
micky wrote:
Once in a while in cowboy movie, someone wakes up in the morning and
turns up the kerosene lantern, without lighting it.

Is it actually possible to keep a small flame burning all night, small
enough that it doesn't waste substantial money by burning all night, at
cowboy-era prices?

Hi,
Even smallest flame gives out some heat. In dead winter that can make
quite a difference. Read the story about Napoleon's men dying from
freezing sleeping in tent but ones who had a candle burning did not die.

I've heard to always turn down and then blow out the
flame when going to bed. For safety.

Not heard the Napoleon story. I'd love to read that,
if you have URL. Might be good idea to buy candle
lantern, and several candles sized for the lantern.

A couple decades ago, I heard of a "Palmer Furnace".
This is when a lost camper in the winter wraps self
in a garbage bag, and uses a candle for heat. It
sounds better than freezing, but at great risk for
lighting the bag on fire.

I'll copy in the alt survival list, where this might
be on topic.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 8/23/2014 10:51 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
A single candle puts out enough heat to make the difference, in a
Russian winter, between
life and death?

Yeah, riiiiiight.

Hi,
I spent quite a bit of time as Scout leader when my boy was growing up.
Obviously you never slept out door in dead winter or have survival
training? Canadian winter is pretty deadly too. Read the book about
Napoleon's expedition to Russia.

Years ago, I had email I reposted around. In the
Moscow winter, the electric stayed on most of
the time. Folks would take a filament light bulb
to bed with them to help keep from freezing.

They had expression of parting in the evening which
translates roughly as "Hope to see you alive in the
morning."

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 8/23/2014 11:50 PM, wrote:
My in laws were deoression era farmers living off the grid in southern
Indiana and they say their alarm clock was the roosters at dawn.
Bedtime was shortly after dark if not right at dark. Artificial light
was a luxury.

Some of them still keep that schedule ;-)


Great advantages to that. For example, after
dark is when the dance halls, casinos, and
saloons are destroying peoples lives. Also
when six foot plus tall "unarmed" teens are
breaking cops eye sockets with punches, and
trying to seize cops guns. You're much safer
and healthier to be home.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
Tony Hwang wrote in :

micky wrote:
Once in a while in cowboy movie, someone wakes up in the morning and
turns up the kerosene lantern, without lighting it.

Is it actually possible to keep a small flame burning all night, small
enough that it doesn't waste substantial money by burning all night, at
cowboy-era prices?

Hi,
Even smallest flame gives out some heat. In dead winter that can make
quite a difference. Read the story about Napoleon's men dying from
freezing sleeping in tent but ones who had a candle burning did not die.

A single candle puts out enough heat to make the difference, in a Russian
winter, between
life and death?

Yeah, riiiiiight.

Actually it does. Winter survival training (one of the reasons I hate snow)
a snow cave shealter with one candle (small group of people) will keep the
inside above freezing. Still cold but livable)

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
On 8/23/2014 11:50 PM, wrote:
My in laws were deoression era farmers living off the grid in southern
Indiana and they say their alarm clock was the roosters at dawn.
Bedtime was shortly after dark if not right at dark. Artificial light
was a luxury.

Some of them still keep that schedule ;-)


Great advantages to that. For example, after
dark is when the dance halls, casinos, and
saloons are destroying peoples lives. Also
when six foot plus tall "unarmed" teens are
breaking cops eye sockets with punches, and
trying to seize cops guns. You're much safer
and healthier to be home.

--
and at home you can be much better armed
to protect yourself and family from rogue
"Gentle Giants"

Higgs Boson wrote:
On Saturday, August 23, 2014 7:27:24 PM UTC-7, Doug Miller wrote:
Tony Hwang wrote in :



micky wrote:

Once in a while in cowboy movie, someone wakes up in the morning and

turns up the kerosene lantern, without lighting it.



Is it actually possible to keep a small flame burning all night, small

enough that it doesn't waste substantial money by burning all night, at

cowboy-era prices?



Hi,

Even smallest flame gives out some heat. In dead winter that can make

quite a difference. Read the story about Napoleon's men dying from

freezing sleeping in tent but ones who had a candle burning did not die.



A single candle puts out enough heat to make the difference, in a Russian winter, between

life and death?

Yeah, riiiiiight.

Depending how well insulated the tent was, between the candle and the men's body heat, it's possible.

The Inuit -- before the whites destroyed their 10,000-year-old culture - could build an igloo expertly very quickly. Once inside & sealed up, they lit a stone lamp burning seal oil. It would make the igloo so warm that the Inuit slept naked between fur blankets.

HB


Hi,
Of course, sleep in the tent without any heat source, in the morning
frosty sparkles on the tent ceiling. Sleep with lantern on or a candle
burning, in the morning no frost in the ceiling of the tent. When we're
going out on winter survival training, some times not even a tent. We
have to dig snow cave and make bed with dry leaves with pine boughs,
sleep in arctic sleeping bag.

Heard this story? during Korean war, when Marines were retreating thru
no man's land in the mountains up North Eastern North Korea, Chinese
reds sneaked in in the dark and carried away marines sleeping in
sleeping bags in bitter cold.
Many of them became POW that way. My dad was a military civilian
attached to 2nd marine div. G2 as POW interrogation interpreter.
Arctic sleeping bag is rated for -50 deg. C. But when it is windy,
it could be -70 deg. C weathe(wind chill) If you spit it'll freeze B4 it
hits the ground.

wrote:

I also bet Kerosene was pretty expensive in 19th or early 20th century
dollars.
That is how the Rockefellers got so rich.

Kerosene was cheaper than whale oil, which had become too expensive for many
people, and the price continued to drop. Rockefeller had the business ethics
of a shark, but the growth of Standard Oil wasn't necessarily bad for the
consumer, particularly in the middle of a price war. Even Ida Tarbell wasn't
upset size and efficiency of Standard Oil, just the predatory tactics used
by Rockefeller.

NotMe wrote:

Actually it does. Winter survival training (one of the reasons I hate
snow) a snow cave shealter with one candle (small group of people) will
keep the inside above freezing. Still cold but livable)

I've spent several winters in a small camping trailer in southern Arizona.
Nights can get pretty chilly, enough that I've had leftover coffee in a cup
frozen in the morning. I was using an Alladin lantern for light, and it also
kept the trailer pleasantly warm. After mantles and kerosene became
difficult to find, I switched to a LED headlamp for reading and really
noticed the difference in the comfort level.

Alladin seems to have went down the home decor road and are pretty expensive
these days but if you can find one they're a whole different animal than a
kerosene lamp with just a wick. I believe the mantels are easier to find
too. Thorium was used in the mantles and it produces minuscule amounts of
radium-224. You would have to eat a mantle to even come close to the normal
yearly radiation dose but it was too much for the Nannies. Searching for a
politically correct alternative and perfecting the new manufacturing
techniques took several years during which the stocks of the thorium based
mantles were used up.

I'm surprised the Chinese haven't done an Alladin knockoff.

On Sun, 24 Aug 2014 10:00:46 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

wrote:

I also bet Kerosene was pretty expensive in 19th or early 20th century
dollars.
That is how the Rockefellers got so rich.

Kerosene was cheaper than whale oil, which had become too expensive for many
people, and the price continued to drop. Rockefeller had the business ethics
of a shark, but the growth of Standard Oil wasn't necessarily bad for the
consumer, particularly in the middle of a price war. Even Ida Tarbell wasn't
upset size and efficiency of Standard Oil, just the predatory tactics used
by Rockefeller.



A by-product of making good kerosene is gasoline and there was no
market for it so much was dumped or burned off. Rockefeller put money
into the development of the internal combustion engine we use in cars
today.

He also built oil pipelines in order to save money the railroads were
charging him to move oil by tanker truck.

On 8/24/2014 11:07 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:

Heard this story? during Korean war, when Marines were retreating thru
no man's land in the mountains up North Eastern North Korea, Chinese
reds sneaked in in the dark and carried away marines sleeping in
sleeping bags in bitter cold.
Many of them became POW that way. My dad was a military civilian
attached to 2nd marine div. G2 as POW interrogation interpreter.


Not heard that. What a tactic!

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Sun, 24 Aug 2014 10:15:56 -0600, rbowman wrote
in

I've spent several winters in a small camping trailer in southern Arizona.
Nights can get pretty chilly, enough that I've had leftover coffee in a cup
frozen in the morning. I was using an Alladin lantern for light, and it also
kept the trailer pleasantly warm. After mantles and kerosene became
difficult to find, I switched to a LED headlamp for reading and really
noticed the difference in the comfort level.

Have you tried Coleman?
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Camping/Lights/Lanterns|/pc/104795280/c/104743080/sc/104428080/Colemanreg-2-Mantle-Dual-Fueltrade-Lantern/1403978.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Flant erns%2Fcoleman%2F_%2FN-1100702%2B1000003095%2FNe-1000003095%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104428080%3FWT.srch%3D1%26WT.tsrc%3DP PC%26rid%3D20%26WT.mc_id%3DMICROSOFT|cam_Lights_La nterns_Cole|USA%26WT.z_mc_id1%3D43700004902758535% 26gclid%3DCPiM1uyprsACFUjk7AodOg4ALg%26gclsrc%3Dds &WTz_l=PPC%3Bcat104428080
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

On 8/25/2014 7:49 AM, CRNG wrote:

Have you tried Coleman?
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Camping/Lights/Lanterns|/pc/104795280/c/104743080/sc/104428080/Colemanreg-2-Mantle-Dual-Fueltrade-Lantern/1403978.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Flant erns%2Fcoleman%2F_%2FN-1100702%2B1000003095%2FNe-1000003095%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104428080%3FWT.srch%3D1%26WT.tsrc%3DP PC%26rid%3D20%26WT.mc_id%3DMICROSOFT|cam_Lights_La nterns_Cole|USA%26WT.z_mc_id1%3D43700004902758535% 26gclid%3DCPiM1uyprsACFUjk7AodOg4ALg%26gclsrc%3Dds &WTz_l=PPC%3Bcat104428080


Ninety bucks for the lantern. I think I paid twenty
for a propane lantern at the big box store. That
seventy bucks buys a lot of tanks of Blue Rhino
and an adapter tube.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 24 Aug 2014 10:00:46 -0600, rbowman

wrote:

wrote:

I also bet Kerosene was pretty expensive in 19th or
early 20th
century dollars.
That is how the Rockefellers got so rich.

Kerosene was cheaper than whale oil, which had become too
expensive
for many people, and the price continued to drop.
Rockefeller had
the business ethics of a shark, but the growth of
Standard Oil
wasn't necessarily bad for the consumer, particularly in
the middle
of a price war. Even Ida Tarbell wasn't upset size and
efficiency of
Standard Oil, just the predatory tactics used by
Rockefeller.



A by-product of making good kerosene is gasoline and there
was no
market for it so much was dumped or burned off.
Rockefeller put money
into the development of the internal combustion engine we
use in cars
today.

He also built oil pipelines in order to save money the
railroads were
charging him to move oil by tanker truck.

Funny how some things never change. Their trying to build
the XL pipeline, but Warren Buffet(big bammy supporter)
doesn't want it because he makes money from shipping the oil
by his trains(BNR)

CRNG wrote:

Have you tried Coleman?

It's not a Coleman but it's a mantle propane lamp I use when I want more
than spot lighting. I don't know how the economics stack up against the
Coleman liquid fuel lanterns. Propane is as quiet as a kerosene mantle
lantern, but it's a lot quieter than the liquid fuel models and you don't
have to pump it up periodically.

I should look at the comparative costs. K1 is just about as expensive as
Coleman fuel. I've never tried unleaded in a dual fuel. Maybe they've gotten
better but it used to be unleaded sort of worked in a pinch.

ChairMan wrote:

Funny how some things never change. Their trying to build
the XL pipeline, but Warren Buffet(big bammy supporter)
doesn't want it because he makes money from shipping the oil
by his trains(BNR)

Yeah, and somehow the government regulations usually favor the biggest
donors to Foghorn's campaign fund. And those big donors aren't you and me.

On 8/26/2014 12:58 AM, rbowman wrote:

It's not a Coleman but it's a mantle propane lamp I use when I want more
than spot lighting. I don't know how the economics stack up against the
Coleman liquid fuel lanterns. Propane is as quiet as a kerosene mantle
lantern, but it's a lot quieter than the liquid fuel models and you don't
have to pump it up periodically.

I should look at the comparative costs. K1 is just about as expensive as
Coleman fuel. I've never tried unleaded in a dual fuel. Maybe they've gotten
better but it used to be unleaded sort of worked in a pinch.


Propane is heavier, and it is fuel specific. You can't
go to town and get a bucket of propane. The tanks are
heavy, also. OK, you can use a plumbers 14.1 ounce tank,
or a hose and 20 pounder.

I love the convenience, clean burn, and lots of heat
out put for winter power cuts.

As you are paying for the 16 ounce heavy steel tanks,
I'd dare to guess propane 16 ouncers are more expensive.

My two mantle Coleman lights the whole room plenty bright
enough that during a power cut everyone knows I've got
some thing in there. Not necessarily advantage. Wick
type kero lantern doesn't make me look totally better
than the neighbors.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..