To AHR, copies to friends

Maybe I need a bigger sump pump, so at the Ace Hardware, I looked at the
boxes.

If I get a Wayne pump, I can get a

1/3 HP that pumps 3800 GPH, or a
1/2 HP " " 4200 GPH, or a
3/4 HP " " 4500 GPH.

With ACE brand, I can get a
1/3 HP that pumps 3300 GPH, or a
1/2 HP " " 3600 GPH,
and maybe they make a 1/2 HP but I didn't see it.

So a 50% increase in the power of the motor yields only about a 10%
increase in GPH. The next 50% yields a 7% increase with Wayne.

With ACE, 50% increase yields a 9% increase in GPH.

Why is this?

Once in the 31 years I've been here I've needed a bigger pump -- because
the pump was working full blast and still couldn't keep up with the
water coming into the sump from outside** -- and 3 of these pumps are
bigger than my current 1/3 HP, but i'm discouraged from buying anything
if I'm going to get so little increase.

**It just caused wet boxes (cardboard cartons) in the laundry room, for
the nth time, and I don't even do anything anymore when this happens,
but I would still like to have eveything working "right".

micky wrote:
To AHR, copies to friends

Maybe I need a bigger sump pump, so at the Ace Hardware, I looked at
the boxes.

If I get a Wayne pump, I can get a

1/3 HP that pumps 3800 GPH, or a
1/2 HP " " 4200 GPH, or a
3/4 HP " " 4500 GPH.

With ACE brand, I can get a
1/3 HP that pumps 3300 GPH, or a
1/2 HP " " 3600 GPH,
and maybe they make a 1/2 HP but I didn't see it.

So a 50% increase in the power of the motor yields only about a 10%
increase in GPH. The next 50% yields a 7% increase with Wayne.

With ACE, 50% increase yields a 9% increase in GPH.

Why is this?

Once in the 31 years I've been here I've needed a bigger pump --
because the pump was working full blast and still couldn't keep up
with the water coming into the sump from outside** -- and 3 of these
pumps are bigger than my current 1/3 HP, but i'm discouraged from
buying anything if I'm going to get so little increase.

**It just caused wet boxes (cardboard cartons) in the laundry room,
for the nth time, and I don't even do anything anymore when this
happens, but I would still like to have eveything working "right".

Add an additional pump to what you have.

On 7/24/2014 11:59 PM, micky wrote:
To AHR, copies to friends

Maybe I need a bigger sump pump, so at the Ace Hardware, I looked at the
boxes.

If I get a Wayne pump, I can get a

1/3 HP that pumps 3800 GPH, or a
1/2 HP " " 4200 GPH, or a
3/4 HP " " 4500 GPH.

With ACE brand, I can get a
1/3 HP that pumps 3300 GPH, or a
1/2 HP " " 3600 GPH,
and maybe they make a 1/2 HP but I didn't see it.

So a 50% increase in the power of the motor yields only about a 10%
increase in GPH. The next 50% yields a 7% increase with Wayne.

With ACE, 50% increase yields a 9% increase in GPH.

Why is this?

Once in the 31 years I've been here I've needed a bigger pump -- because
the pump was working full blast and still couldn't keep up with the
water coming into the sump from outside** -- and 3 of these pumps are
bigger than my current 1/3 HP, but i'm discouraged from buying anything
if I'm going to get so little increase.

**It just caused wet boxes (cardboard cartons) in the laundry room, for
the nth time, and I don't even do anything anymore when this happens,
but I would still like to have eveything working "right".

First thing I'd want to do, is to look at the
discharge pipe. Is the pipe or tube large enough?
The corrugated flex tubing makes for a LOT of
water resistance. It's very possible that taking
out the flex and put in some properly sized PVC
might improve the flow through the pipe.

Second thing I'd do, is to confirm if there is a
check valve in the system, and if the water is
pumping out and coming back in.

The home repair radio show around here talks about
gutters and grading. Is the water really going away
from the foundation?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 7/25/2014 3:00 AM, Bob F wrote:
micky wrote:
**It just caused wet boxes (cardboard cartons) in the laundry room,
for the nth time, and I don't even do anything anymore when this
happens, but I would still like to have eveything working "right".

Add an additional pump to what you have.

Sad to hear about the wet cardboard. That takes a
LOT of dehumidifier action to remove the water.

Please give serious look to a second drain tube,
of much larger pipe. Check valve, and so on.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Friday, July 25, 2014 8:17:28 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 7/25/2014 3:00 AM, Bob F wrote:

micky wrote:

**It just caused wet boxes (cardboard cartons) in the laundry room,

for the nth time, and I don't even do anything anymore when this

happens, but I would still like to have eveything working "right".




the gallons per hour for a given horsepower depends a lot on (you should pardon the expression) the head.

The head is how many feet the pump must lift the water up.

Mark






Add an additional pump to what you have.



Sad to hear about the wet cardboard. That takes a

LOT of dehumidifier action to remove the water.



Please give serious look to a second drain tube,

of much larger pipe. Check valve, and so on.





--

.

Christopher A. Young

Learn about Jesus

www.lds.org

.

On 7/24/2014 11:59 PM, micky wrote:


So a 50% increase in the power of the motor yields only about a 10%
increase in GPH. The next 50% yields a 7% increase with Wayne.

With ACE, 50% increase yields a 9% increase in GPH.

Why is this?

First, be sure they are all showing the ratings for the same
circumstances (head or lift). As power goes up, the amount of water
increases, but on a curve. Just as you car fuel mileage is not twice at
30 mph as it is at 60 mph.

I'd consider getting a second pump rather than a larger one. With
redundancy, you always have some ability to move water if one fails.
That is common practice in critical manufacturing operations. We may
lose capacity, but we don't shut down.

On 7/25/2014 10:15 AM, wrote:
On Friday, July 25, 2014 8:17:28 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 7/25/2014 3:00 AM, Bob F wrote:

micky wrote:
**It just caused wet boxes (cardboard cartons) in the laundry room,
for the nth time, and I don't even do anything anymore when this
happens, but I would still like to have eveything working "right".


the gallons per hour for a given horsepower depends a lot on
(you should pardon the expression) the head.

The head is how many feet the pump must lift the water up.

Mark



Years ago, I took some fire protection courses. One
course dealt with sprinkler systems. We looked at
types of tubing, pipe, valves, and the loss of water
pressure caused by each. I don't know, as the OP not
yet commented. But, if the OP has corrugated flex
discharge tubing, he's losing a LOT of flow.

A less gentle way to say, is that corrugated flex
tubing gives lots of head. PVC tubing of large enough
diameter gives great head.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Friday, July 25, 2014 10:29:16 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/24/2014 11:59 PM, micky wrote:





So a 50% increase in the power of the motor yields only about a 10%

increase in GPH. The next 50% yields a 7% increase with Wayne.



With ACE, 50% increase yields a 9% increase in GPH.



Why is this?



First, be sure they are all showing the ratings for the same

circumstances (head or lift). As power goes up, the amount of water

increases, but on a curve. Just as you car fuel mileage is not twice at

30 mph as it is at 60 mph.



I'd consider getting a second pump rather than a larger one. With

redundancy, you always have some ability to move water if one fails.

That is common practice in critical manufacturing operations. We may

lose capacity, but we don't shut down.

+1

Especially given this:

**It just caused wet boxes (cardboard cartons) in the laundry room, for
the nth time, and I don't even do anything anymore when this happens,
but I would still like to have eveything working "right".


Which is confusing, because he also said that it only happened once in
31 years. But clearly there is at least laundry eqpt at risk. If there was
at least one time where the current and presumably correctly functioning
pump couldn't keep up, that suggests a pump is probably needed many times.
If you have two, if one dies, you're still covered for probably 99%+ of
occurances, the exceptions being thoser rare times when the additional
capacity is really needed. For another $150 or so, sounds like money well
spent for a second pump.

On 7/25/2014 11:28 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, July 25, 2014 10:29:16 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/24/2014 11:59 PM, micky wrote:





So a 50% increase in the power of the motor yields only about a 10%

increase in GPH. The next 50% yields a 7% increase with Wayne.



With ACE, 50% increase yields a 9% increase in GPH.



Why is this?



First, be sure they are all showing the ratings for the same

circumstances (head or lift). As power goes up, the amount of water

increases, but on a curve. Just as you car fuel mileage is not twice at

30 mph as it is at 60 mph.



I'd consider getting a second pump rather than a larger one. With

redundancy, you always have some ability to move water if one fails.

That is common practice in critical manufacturing operations. We may

lose capacity, but we don't shut down.

+1

Especially given this:

**It just caused wet boxes (cardboard cartons) in the laundry room, for
the nth time, and I don't even do anything anymore when this happens,
but I would still like to have eveything working "right".


Which is confusing, because he also said that it only happened once in
31 years. But clearly there is at least laundry eqpt at risk. If there was
at least one time where the current and presumably correctly functioning
pump couldn't keep up, that suggests a pump is probably needed many times.
If you have two, if one dies, you're still covered for probably 99%+ of
occurances, the exceptions being thoser rare times when the additional
capacity is really needed. For another $150 or so, sounds like money well
spent for a second pump.

Having been through this in my previous life, I think, as other have
said, grading is very important. If everything is very flat, downspouts
and pump output, but be as far away as possible. I had one AC pump and
one DC pump. The last BIG rain was huge. We had, and it was actually
measured, 23" of rain in 36 hours, much of it coming at the end of the
rain. My AC pump was running about 90% of the time. Each pump had a
check valve and exited through a separate pipe. Once outside, a 4" pipe
carried it downhill to the edge of my lot, about 36'. Also, in the
corner where the sump was, the ground was pretty flat. So, that
downspout needed to be taken as far away as possible. Luckily, it only
covered a small part of the roof, so I put into that same 4" line. If
there was ever too much water for the 4", it was not hard connected to
the 3 source pipes, so it would just overflow. But it never did ... but
that was after the BIG rain. During all this, the town sewers were
backing up. I had a check valve on the sink, furnace condensate drain
and washer drains. However, because the water backup starts slowly, the
check valve remained relaxed and water continues to trickle under the
flap. Once I emptied the sink (is was 1" from the top) the valve closed
and the backup stopped. After this, I complained to the Village and
they installed a whole house anti backflow unit at their expense ($5K).
And, in the 5 years since I've been gone, they added extra capacity to
the sewage lift station, about a block away, and added a huge backup
generator.

On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 10:29:16 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote
in

I'd consider getting a second pump rather than a larger one. With
redundancy, you always have some ability to move water if one fails.
That is common practice in critical manufacturing operations. We may
lose capacity, but we don't shut down.

That's a very good idea.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

DONT overlook a obvious easy solution!

If the home sits higher than the street, its time to install a gravity drain to daylight! Even if its a overflow drain to daylight, it would shine in a power outage.

On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 08:28:32 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, July 25, 2014 10:29:16 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/24/2014 11:59 PM, micky wrote:





So a 50% increase in the power of the motor yields only about a 10%

increase in GPH. The next 50% yields a 7% increase with Wayne.



With ACE, 50% increase yields a 9% increase in GPH.



Why is this?



First, be sure they are all showing the ratings for the same

circumstances (head or lift).

I assumed the circs were the same. Same brand, same style box and
laabling . If not the same circs, it's like they're trying to confuse
me.

.. As power goes up, the amount of water

increases, but on a curve. Just as you car fuel mileage is not twice at

30 mph as it is at 60 mph.

I appreciate your and others' actually addressing my question before
giving me advice on things.


I'd consider getting a second pump rather than a larger one. With

I certainly have. A base pump, or a battery operated pump. Just
putting in a bigger pump wouldnt' solve power shortages, but otoh it's
so easy to do, maybe an hour altogether.


redundancy, you always have some ability to move water if one fails.

That is common practice in critical manufacturing operations. We may

lose capacity, but we don't shut down.

+1

Especially given this:

**It just caused wet boxes (cardboard cartons) in the laundry room, for
the nth time, and I don't even do anything anymore when this happens,
but I would still like to have eveything working "right".


Which is confusing, because he also said that it only happened once in
31 years.

Only once in 31 years has the sump pump not kept up with water entering
the sump from the ground outside.

But there have been many other "floods", mostly in the early years, none
more than an quarter of an inch in a small area and an eigth of an inch
in a bigger one. All or at least most have been cured and won't happen
again.

In no special order, the time
the washing machine hose burst
Replaced with stainless steel clad.
the condensate tray for the AC overflowed, a lot
Rerouted drain tube. It had worked for 10 years the original way.
the water heater leaked, not noticed because of the condensate tray leak
New water heater, added pan underneath, with drain to sump
the polyethylene? tube to the humidifer developed a hole
Replaced with copper.
the tube to the toilet in powder room on 1st floor sprang a leak
Just repaired. Didn't put stress on any connection.
the laundry sink backed up when it rained a lot, 3 times
I keep a stopper in it, and may put a ball valve in the drain.
the hose to the kitchen sink on the first floor broke
Used proper hose.

I'm sure there are a couple of causes I missed. I can never remember
them all.

But clearly there is at least laundry eqpt at risk. If there was
at least one time where the current and presumably correctly functioning
pump couldn't keep up, that suggests a pump is probably needed many times.

For months at a time, the pump doesn't run. For months more, water
wouldn't reach the floor even if there were no pump, but since the pump
level is set lower than the floor, it runs some times. (I raised the
turn-on level 3 or 4 inches from where it was when I bought the house,
and cut the running by about 75%.) And for some reason, there's never
been a power failure when there was also a high water level. But it
could happen.

If you have two, if one dies, you're still covered for probably 99%+ of
occurances, the exceptions being thoser rare times when the additional
capacity is really needed. For another $150 or so, sounds like money well
spent for a second pump.

Like I say, I've thought about base and battery. Ace Hardware also
had two pumps connected already. I've never seen that in person before.
I got so intrigrued by the question I asked that I didn't pay attention,
but I'll check the web or go back.

On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 12:26:44 -0400, Art Todesco
wrote:


Having been through this in my previous life, I think, as other have
said, grading is very important. If everything is very flat, downspouts
and pump output, but be as far away as possible. I had one AC pump and
one DC pump. The last BIG rain was huge. We had, and it was actually
measured, 23" of rain in 36 hours, much of it coming at the end of the

Wow.

rain. My AC pump was running about 90% of the time. Each pump had a
check valve and exited through a separate pipe. Once outside, a 4" pipe
carried it downhill to the edge of my lot, about 36'. Also, in the

I have a similar4" plastic pipe, corrugated so it can be bent from
vertical to horizontal.

corner where the sump was, the ground was pretty flat. So, that
downspout needed to be taken as far away as possible. Luckily, it only

My last n'bor wanted me to put a 6' extension on one downspout, so I
did. The other one empties on to the top of a mild hill

covered a small part of the roof, so I put into that same 4" line. If
there was ever too much water for the 4", it was not hard connected to
the 3 source pipes, so it would just overflow. But it never did ... but

I only have the sump pipe going to it, but yes, not hard connected.
Only way 4" couldn't handle 2" is if the 4" pipe collapsed. Not so far.

But if it did, it would be like a friend of mine's whose basement I
slept in the night after her wedding. I checked it out the next
morning, but that night, sump pump went on, pumped the water 2 inches
from the wall, water went down through the soil into the sump and the
sump pump went on again! She was married and moving anyhow, so I don't
remember if I told her about it.

that was after the BIG rain. During all this, the town sewers were
backing up. I had a check valve on the sink, furnace condensate drain
and washer drains. However, because the water backup starts slowly, the
check valve remained relaxed and water continues to trickle under the
flap. Once I emptied the sink (is was 1" from the top) the valve closed

Did you tell me about this before. I think so. That is probably a
problem for me too, and I figured out another one. I put the checkvalve
right below the sink in the vertical part of the drain. I could have
put it in a horizontal part past the trap. So the incoming water has
to fight gravity too. I could have made it so the draining water fought
gravity and the backing up water was helped by it. It didn't work
the first time I removed the stopper, but one time that I forgot to put
the stopper in, it limited the overflow to a pint or less.

and the backup stopped. After this, I complained to the Village and
they installed a whole house anti backflow unit at their expense ($5K).
And, in the 5 years since I've been gone, they added extra capacity to
the sewage lift station, about a block away, and added a huge backup
generator.

That's good.

On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 08:17:28 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 7/25/2014 3:00 AM, Bob F wrote:
micky wrote:
**It just caused wet boxes (cardboard cartons) in the laundry room,
for the nth time, and I don't even do anything anymore when this
happens, but I would still like to have eveything working "right".

Add an additional pump to what you have.

Maybe I will.

Sad to hear about the wet cardboard. That takes a
LOT of dehumidifier action to remove the water.

I just let it sit there. No dehumidifier, no mold. I think at least
13 times.

Please give serious look to a second drain tube,
of much larger pipe. Check valve, and so on.

Well the check valve on the sump pump only matters when the pump turns
off. The builder didn't put one in, but all it means is that 8.5 feet
(the head) of water in a 2" pipe falls back into the sump when the pump
turns off.

Now if I added a second pump that used the same vertical output pipe ,
(unlike a water powered base pump), I would have to add a check valve in
each pipe that's not shared, one for each pump Or else when only one
pump is running, the water would be pumped to where the pipes join and
it would go right back down again through the other pipe to and through
the other pump, to the sump again. Making room for these checkvalves
was the last but most difficult part of designing in a second pump.
But ACE sells two pumps already assembled together, to fit a sump. Maybe
that's the answer. One pump would use a battery.

micky wrote:
On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 08:17:28 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 7/25/2014 3:00 AM, Bob F wrote:
micky wrote:
**It just caused wet boxes (cardboard cartons) in the laundry room,
for the nth time, and I don't even do anything anymore when this
happens, but I would still like to have eveything working "right".

Add an additional pump to what you have.

Maybe I will.

Sad to hear about the wet cardboard. That takes a
LOT of dehumidifier action to remove the water.

I just let it sit there. No dehumidifier, no mold. I think at least
13 times.

Please give serious look to a second drain tube,
of much larger pipe. Check valve, and so on.

Well the check valve on the sump pump only matters when the pump turns
off. The builder didn't put one in, but all it means is that 8.5 feet
(the head) of water in a 2" pipe falls back into the sump when the
pump turns off.

Now if I added a second pump that used the same vertical output pipe ,
(unlike a water powered base pump), I would have to add a check valve
in each pipe that's not shared, one for each pump Or else when only
one pump is running, the water would be pumped to where the pipes
join and it would go right back down again through the other pipe to
and through the other pump, to the sump again. Making room for
these checkvalves was the last but most difficult part of designing
in a second pump.
But ACE sells two pumps already assembled together, to fit a sump.
Maybe that's the answer. One pump would use a battery.

I suspect that any battery powered pump you find is going to pump a lot less
water, or for a very short time.

On Friday, July 25, 2014 4:51:03 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 08:17:28 -0400, Stormin Mormon

wrote:



On 7/25/2014 3:00 AM, Bob F wrote:

micky wrote:

**It just caused wet boxes (cardboard cartons) in the laundry room,

for the nth time, and I don't even do anything anymore when this

happens, but I would still like to have eveything working "right".



Add an additional pump to what you have.



Maybe I will.



Sad to hear about the wet cardboard. That takes a

LOT of dehumidifier action to remove the water.



I just let it sit there. No dehumidifier, no mold. I think at least

13 times.



Please give serious look to a second drain tube,

of much larger pipe. Check valve, and so on.



Well the check valve on the sump pump only matters when the pump turns

off. The builder didn't put one in, but all it means is that 8.5 feet

(the head) of water in a 2" pipe falls back into the sump when the pump

turns off.


That's still about a gallon and a half of water that starts filling up
the pit again and has to be pumped back out.





Now if I added a second pump that used the same vertical output pipe ,

(unlike a water powered base pump), I would have to add a check valve in

each pipe that's not shared, one for each pump Or else when only one

pump is running, the water would be pumped to where the pipes join and

it would go right back down again through the other pipe to and through

the other pump, to the sump again. Making room for these checkvalves

was the last but most difficult part of designing in a second pump.

But ACE sells two pumps already assembled together, to fit a sump. Maybe

that's the answer. One pump would use a battery.

IDK what happens when you put two pumps that each expect their own
2" pipe onto a single 2" pipe, but I suspect it's not good. You can't
fit 10 lb of crap into a 5 lb bag. It's fine if only one runs at a
time and the second one is strictly for backup or power outage. But
you indicated you had times where more than one pump was required for
the volume.

On 7/24/2014 10:59 PM, micky wrote:
To AHR, copies to friends

Maybe I need a bigger sump pump, so at the Ace Hardware, I looked at the
boxes.

Twice in the last 6 years during unusually heavy rains I've dropped a
2nd, small pump (with float) into the pit and ran a flexible corrugated
hose over to the wash tub. This situation has addressed what appeared to
be an impending overflow of my pit. I'd picked up the 2nd pump at a
garage sale for $5. This solution obviously wouldn't work if I wasn't home.

On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 14:38:43 -0700, "Bob F" wrote:



Now if I added a second pump that used the same vertical output pipe ,
(unlike a water powered base pump), I would have to add a check valve
in each pipe that's not shared, one for each pump Or else when only
one pump is running, the water would be pumped to where the pipes
join and it would go right back down again through the other pipe to
and through the other pump, to the sump again. Making room for
these checkvalves was the last but most difficult part of designing
in a second pump.
But ACE sells two pumps already assembled together, to fit a sump.
Maybe that's the answer. One pump would use a battery.

I suspect that any battery powered pump you find is going to pump a lot less
water, or for a very short time.

You're right, not much. And your last words make me think, the pump
will run the battery dead even if the house has electricity, because the
charger they expect you to use is smaller than 3 decks of cards. Not
enough to run the pump on its own, I think.

Now if I connected my 40 amp charger to the batttery, or better yet a
newer one that wouldn't overcharge hthe battery, that would probably
run the pump as long as it took. But I don't want to buy another
charger and the company might say it's a bad idea. I'll look into that
too.

On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 15:56:45 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, July 25, 2014 4:51:03 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:


Well the check valve on the sump pump only matters when the pump turns

off. The builder didn't put one in, but all it means is that 8.5 feet

(the head) of water in a 2" pipe falls back into the sump when the pump

turns off.


That's still about a gallon and a half of water that starts filling up
the pit again and has to be pumped back out.

For sure, but now that I know the pump does about 3800 gph, that's only
about a second and a half of pumping each time.

During the episode when the pump couldn't keep up with the input, the
pump never turned off, so a check valve wouldn't have helped.

Now if I added a second pump that used the same vertical output pipe ,

(unlike a water powered base pump), I would have to add a check valve in

each pipe that's not shared, one for each pump Or else when only one

pump is running, the water would be pumped to where the pipes join and

it would go right back down again through the other pipe to and through

the other pump, to the sump again. Making room for these checkvalves

was the last but most difficult part of designing in a second pump.

But ACE sells two pumps already assembled together, to fit a sump. Maybe

that's the answer. One pump would use a battery.

IDK what happens when you put two pumps that each expect their own
2" pipe onto a single 2" pipe, but I suspect it's not good. You can't
fit 10 lb of crap into a 5 lb bag. It's fine if only one runs at a
time and the second one is strictly for backup or power outage. But
you indicated you had times where more than one pump was required for
the volume.

Just one time in 31 years. The makers of battery operated pumps say
to set them up so the AC pump comes on first and the other doesn't come
on unless the water rises high enough to turn it on, which is higher
than for the AC pump. Then when the battery pump comes on, if there is
still AC electricity in the house, both pumps will be running at once,
and they often say that the battery pump will add to the total output
using the standard 2" pipe. Of course they could be lying.

It's sort of similar to the problem with the street drailn. There is a
tremendous amount of water coming out of the pipe now, even though water
is only about 11" up a 22" inside diameter pipe at the exit. If the
opening to the catch basin which leads to the pipe were twice as big as
it is now would the pipe be able to carry more? Twice as much? I'm
sure it could carry more, ** and it doesn't have to carry twice as much

I could go outside and look at the output from the sump pump now, like i
looked at the output from the drain pipe. You're right. I should do
that, next time the sump pump is going on frequenltly I will.

**but it turns out not everyone is convinced yet. I'll start another
thread when I know more about that. .

its better to use seperate drain lines for each pump. this prevents a single drain failure causing a flood. but as I said earlier a gravity overflow drain to daylight is better.

I have a friend who bought a foreclosed home sitting on a hill that had a major water problem in the basement. he had 3 sump pumps and interior french drain installed. he felt safe........

I walked thru the home and suggested at least a overflow to daylight drain installed. He didnt want to dig up the yard

less than 2 years later he was on a trip, big storm took out power for 3 days. his besement filled with 5 feet of water. ruined lots of stuff.

he then installed the over flow drain.

Separate drain lines, separate pumps. separate check valves, and if possible on two completely separate electrical circuits, preferably one on each side of the 120/240 circuit so that if one half goes out, the other may still be working.!!!

I have two completely separate electrical pumps, float sensors, discharge lines, and also a water-powered pump with its own float at a much higher level as a final backstop before boarding Noah's ark.

On 7/26/2014 3:57 PM, wrote:
... and if possible on two completely separate electrical circuits, preferably one on each side of the 120/240 circuit so that if one half goes out, the other may still be working.!!!


Great idea! I have had two pumps for years but missed the circuits on
separate legs part. Switch over was easy though. Thanks for the tip!

On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 18:00:05 -0500, tom wrote:

On 7/24/2014 10:59 PM, micky wrote:
To AHR, copies to friends

Maybe I need a bigger sump pump, so at the Ace Hardware, I looked at the
boxes.

Twice in the last 6 years during unusually heavy rains I've dropped a
2nd, small pump (with float) into the pit and ran a flexible corrugated
hose over to the wash tub. This situation has addressed what appeared to
be an impending overflow of my pit. I'd picked up the 2nd pump at a
garage sale for $5. This solution obviously wouldn't work if I wasn't home.

A good idea. But I personally still have to keep my laundry sink
plugged up so the water doesn't back up into it. And that roughly
corresponds to when the big rains are.

On 7/26/2014 7:48 PM, micky wrote:
On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 18:00:05 -0500, tom wrote:

On 7/24/2014 10:59 PM, micky wrote:
To AHR, copies to friends

Maybe I need a bigger sump pump, so at the Ace Hardware, I looked at the
boxes.

Twice in the last 6 years during unusually heavy rains I've dropped a
2nd, small pump (with float) into the pit and ran a flexible corrugated
hose over to the wash tub. This situation has addressed what appeared to
be an impending overflow of my pit. I'd picked up the 2nd pump at a
garage sale for $5. This solution obviously wouldn't work if I wasn't home.

A good idea. But I personally still have to keep my laundry sink
plugged up so the water doesn't back up into it. And that roughly
corresponds to when the big rains are.


I've yet to have\see a sewer back up but I have a basement window right
above my sump pit that I could direct the hose out of instead of the sink..

On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 13:11:15 -0500, tom wrote:

On 7/26/2014 7:48 PM, micky wrote:
On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 18:00:05 -0500, tom wrote:

On 7/24/2014 10:59 PM, micky wrote:
To AHR, copies to friends

Maybe I need a bigger sump pump, so at the Ace Hardware, I looked at the
boxes.

Twice in the last 6 years during unusually heavy rains I've dropped a
2nd, small pump (with float) into the pit and ran a flexible corrugated
hose over to the wash tub. This situation has addressed what appeared to
be an impending overflow of my pit. I'd picked up the 2nd pump at a
garage sale for $5. This solution obviously wouldn't work if I wasn't home.

A good idea. But I personally still have to keep my laundry sink
plugged up so the water doesn't back up into it. And that roughly
corresponds to when the big rains are.


I've yet to have\see a sewer back up but I have a basement window right
above my sump pit that I could direct the hose out of instead of the sink..

Also a good idea. My only window is 40 feet away. The pipe that the
sump pump uses is right nearby and I could join the hose to the pipe,
but I'd need checkvalves and now we're more than half-way to installing
the whole permanent second pump.


Here's the combination pump I referred to.
http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...ductId=3706368

$370 plus 100 for the battery and probably more for battery box..
Looks easy to install.

And here's what I have now.
http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...ductId=1272835
1/3 HP 2800 GPH at 5'; 2270 GPH at 10'; 1640 GPH at 15'

And the combo replacement has is
1/2HP (2820 GPH at 10') A/C sump pump and Watchdog special emergency
back-up sump pump (1730 GPH at 10')

My head is 8-9 feet, but lets figure 10. 2270 GPH now to 2820 (a small
increase) plus 1730 when the second pump kicks on.


OTOH, this looks easy to install too
http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...uctId=33413866
$180 for 1/2 HP 3630 GPH (no lift but it's a lot more than the other AC
pumps, and I could add
http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...ductId=2151020 a battery
operated pump "Pumps 1000 gal. per hr. at 10' lift" for $180, which is
$10 less than the combination pump (and would cost the same amount extra
for a battery and battery box). But I myself would have to figure out
how to put them both in the sump, (which looks fairly easy since they
both look so small) and I mysellf would have to install two check
valves, a Y connnector, and a 45^ bend, which looks not that bad,
although it will be harder to lower the combination into and pull it out
of the sump, but that should be infrequent..

More pumping for the same money but somewhat more work on my part. When
I'm in a good mood, I love work like this, but right now, I just want to
go to sleep. OTOH, if everything gets wet, I'll want to sleep even
more.

Do submerisible pumps last as long as above water pumps?

In most places it is against code to connect a sump pump to the sanitary sewer system

I suppose anything goes in an emergency but you probably don't want to do this as a rule.

Mark

On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 14:52:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

In most places it is against code to connect a sump pump to the sanitary sewer system

FTR sounds like a misunderstanding. I wasn't suggesting that. Nothing
about the sanitary sewer in the previous post.

I suppose anything goes in an emergency but you probably don't want to do this as a rule.

A neighbor did do that 10 or 20 years ago, but it's a particularly
stupid idea here, because for four houses, and his was one of them,,
sometimes the basement sink backs up, and that's no time to discharge
the sump pump into the sink. But a later owner undid what he did.
And the backing up has been solved too.

Mark