Is it OK to drill round holes in the flooring where house wiring crosses the joists so that there is no pressure on the wires at those points?
Between the joists the wires would be pushed slightly below the flooring.
Thank you for advice.

On 5/31/2014 10:03 AM, wrote:
Is it OK to drill round holes in the flooring where house wiring crosses the joists so that there is no pressure on the wires at those points?
Between the joists the wires would be pushed slightly below the flooring.
Thank you for advice.


NO. cutting a notch or drilling a hole like that will weaker the
structure. Holes should be drilled through as close to the center as
possible.

If you have 2 x 8 beams and cut a 2" groove, you now have about the
strength of a 2 x 6. I think you'll find that a code violation too.

On Saturday, May 31, 2014 10:03:38 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Is it OK to drill round holes in the flooring where house wiring crosses the joists so that there is no pressure on the wires at those points?

Between the joists the wires would be pushed slightly below the flooring.

Thank you for advice.

add some wood laid FLAT and then screw your decking to that added wood. Mind where the wires are so you DONT screw into them!

DONT NOTCH THE JOISTS

On Saturday, May 31, 2014 11:03:41 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/31/2014 10:03 AM, wrote:

Is it OK to drill round holes in the flooring where house wiring crosses the joists so that there is no pressure on the wires at those points?

Between the joists the wires would be pushed slightly below the flooring.

Thank you for advice.





NO. cutting a notch or drilling a hole like that will weaker the

structure. Holes should be drilled through as close to the center as

possible.



If you have 2 x 8 beams and cut a 2" groove, you now have about the

strength of a 2 x 6. I think you'll find that a code violation too.

I agree with the general premise. But it sounds like
what he's talking about is the thickness of a Romex,
eg 1/4", not taking 2" out of a joist. If that's all there is and he covers it with a metal strike plate, I
could live with it. Or if there are a lot of instances
like this, he could nail some strips to the joists to
raise the flooring by 1 1/2, then nail flooring to that.
Maybe a lot higher than that, if it's in a cold/hot
climate where you need more insulation than you're going
to get in just a joist height thickeness.

On Saturday, May 31, 2014 11:18:26 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, May 31, 2014 11:03:41 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/31/2014 10:03 AM, wrote:



Is it OK to drill round holes in the flooring where house wiring crosses the joists so that there is no pressure on the wires at those points?



Between the joists the wires would be pushed slightly below the flooring.



Thank you for advice.











NO. cutting a notch or drilling a hole like that will weaker the



structure. Holes should be drilled through as close to the center as



possible.







If you have 2 x 8 beams and cut a 2" groove, you now have about the



strength of a 2 x 6. I think you'll find that a code violation too.



I agree with the general premise. But it sounds like

what he's talking about is the thickness of a Romex,

eg 1/4", not taking 2" out of a joist. If that's all there is and he covers it with a metal strike plate, I

could live with it. Or if there are a lot of instances

like this, he could nail some strips to the joists to

raise the flooring by 1 1/2, then nail flooring to that.

Maybe a lot higher than that, if it's in a cold/hot

climate where you need more insulation than you're going

to get in just a joist height thickeness.

I had the same issue many years ago. Cutting just a little from the top of the joist weakens it greatly. And a strike plate wouldnt help much

Much better to add ome stapping and put the plywood deck over that....

On Sat, 31 May 2014 08:18:26 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, May 31, 2014 11:03:41 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/31/2014 10:03 AM, wrote:

Is it OK to drill round holes in the flooring where house wiring crosses the joists so that there is no pressure on the wires at those points?

Between the joists the wires would be pushed slightly below the flooring.

Thank you for advice.





NO. cutting a notch or drilling a hole like that will weaker the

structure. Holes should be drilled through as close to the center as

possible.



If you have 2 x 8 beams and cut a 2" groove, you now have about the

strength of a 2 x 6. I think you'll find that a code violation too.

I agree with the general premise. But it sounds like
what he's talking about is the thickness of a Romex,
eg 1/4", not taking 2" out of a joist. If that's all there is and he covers it with a metal strike plate, I

You're both wrong. He asked about cutting holes in the flooring, not the
joists.

Your plans are better.


could live with it. Or if there are a lot of instances
like this, he could nail some strips to the joists to
raise the flooring by 1 1/2, then nail flooring to that.
Maybe a lot higher than that, if it's in a cold/hot
climate where you need more insulation than you're going
to get in just a joist height thickeness.

That's true. Even in a temperate climate like Baltimore I gather he
should consider adding more insulation and how to make room for it.

On Saturday, May 31, 2014 11:34:03 AM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:
On Saturday, May 31, 2014 11:18:26 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, May 31, 2014 11:03:41 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:



On 5/31/2014 10:03 AM, wrote:







Is it OK to drill round holes in the flooring where house wiring crosses the joists so that there is no pressure on the wires at those points?







Between the joists the wires would be pushed slightly below the flooring.







Thank you for advice.























NO. cutting a notch or drilling a hole like that will weaker the







structure. Holes should be drilled through as close to the center as







possible.















If you have 2 x 8 beams and cut a 2" groove, you now have about the







strength of a 2 x 6. I think you'll find that a code violation too.







I agree with the general premise. But it sounds like



what he's talking about is the thickness of a Romex,



eg 1/4", not taking 2" out of a joist. If that's all there is and he covers it with a metal strike plate, I



could live with it. Or if there are a lot of instances



like this, he could nail some strips to the joists to



raise the flooring by 1 1/2, then nail flooring to that.



Maybe a lot higher than that, if it's in a cold/hot



climate where you need more insulation than you're going



to get in just a joist height thickeness.



I had the same issue many years ago. Cutting just a little from the top of the joist weakens it greatly. And a strike plate wouldnt help much



Sure if you make a notch for a drain pipe. But for
the thickness of a Romex cable?

Within the outer third of the span, on either end, per code you
can notch out 1/6th of the whole joist. If 1/6th doesn't
screw it there, it's hard to imagine 1/4" causing a failure
anywhere. And the preferred
location is the top versus the bottom. The metal strike
plate is to prevent nails from being driven in, has nothing
to do with strength.



Much better to add ome stapping and put the plywood deck over that....

Even if there are just two places where a romex goes over
a joist in the whole attic? You'd still attach wood strips
all over the whole attic to raise it all up?

Me, I'd make the 1/4" notch and sleep well at night.

On Saturday, May 31, 2014 12:09:58 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2014 08:18:26 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

wrote:



On Saturday, May 31, 2014 11:03:41 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/31/2014 10:03 AM, wrote:



Is it OK to drill round holes in the flooring where house wiring crosses the joists so that there is no pressure on the wires at those points?



Between the joists the wires would be pushed slightly below the flooring.



Thank you for advice.











NO. cutting a notch or drilling a hole like that will weaker the



structure. Holes should be drilled through as close to the center as



possible.







If you have 2 x 8 beams and cut a 2" groove, you now have about the



strength of a 2 x 6. I think you'll find that a code violation too.



I agree with the general premise. But it sounds like

what he's talking about is the thickness of a Romex,

eg 1/4", not taking 2" out of a joist. If that's all there is and he covers it with a metal strike plate, I



You're both wrong. He asked about cutting holes in the flooring, not the

joists.



You're right. That's what he said, but mentally I pictured it
the other way around. I just checked code and it looks like you can
make a notch up to 1/6 of the joist as long as it's within 1/3 of
the span on either end. If it's in the middle third, you're not
supposed to make any notch. But I could certainly live with 1/4"
and sleep at night.

But if it is in the center 1/3, and he doesn't want to make a small
notch, then he could do what he stated, ie cut a hole in the flooring
so that it fits around the cable. I would then fasten a metal strike
plate on the top to cover and protect it.






Your plans are better.





could live with it. Or if there are a lot of instances

like this, he could nail some strips to the joists to

raise the flooring by 1 1/2, then nail flooring to that.

Maybe a lot higher than that, if it's in a cold/hot

climate where you need more insulation than you're going

to get in just a joist height thickeness.



That's true. Even in a temperate climate like Baltimore I gather he

should consider adding more insulation and how to make room for it.

Yes, I'd definitely take insulation into account before doing anything.

Is it OK to drill round holes in the flooring where house wiring crosses
the joists so that there is no pressure on the wires at those points?
Between the joists the wires would be pushed slightly below the flooring.
Thank you for advice.


*I don't fully understand what you are doing, but the electrical code
requires a minimum of 1.25" set back for any wiring in a stud or joist to
prevent nails and screws from coming in contact. Anything less requires a
small steel plate to prevent nails and screws from penetrating the wire.

If you are proposing to put a floor down on top of joists that have wires
running across them, I would not recommend that. There is too much of a
risk of the wire or insulation being pinched. In a situation like that, the
problem may not manifest itself for several years at which point arcing may
occur in close contact with a combustible material. This is how electrical
fires start.

I spend a lot of time in attics and have seen situations where homeowners
have laid plywood right on top of wires that cross joists. After years of
shuffling boxes and walking, the insulation on the wires starts to wear
down. In a best case scenario, the circuit breaker trips. In a worst case
situation a fire starts. Up in the attic no one is around to smell
something burning until it too late.

Either relocate the wires properly or lay down 2"x2" strips to get good
clearance.

On 5/31/2014 12:09 PM, micky wrote:

You're both wrong. He asked about cutting holes in the flooring, not the
joists.

Your plans are better.

Yeah, I read it backwards. Depending on a few factors, I may or may not
cut the flooring. Behind furniture, probably not a big deal. In a high
traffic area. anything could happen.

On Saturday, May 31, 2014 10:03:38 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Is it OK to drill round holes in the flooring where house wiring crosses the joists so that there is no pressure on the wires at those points?

Between the joists the wires would be pushed slightly below the flooring.

Thank you for advice.

Thanks to all, but only Micky seems to understand my intentions. I planned to have Home Depot cut a bunch of 4x8's in half to make 4x4's.
Then I will assemble the smaller pieces (much easier to get them up into the attic) into a tile-like arrangement with each piece straddling 3 joists which, by the way are 2x6's. Any place that a 'tile' covers a wire I will mark it and cut out a hole with approximately a 3" diameter. Just enough to expose the width of the joist including a little extra space for the NM cable to enter the hole on one side of the joist, go over the width of the joist and go back down into the hole on the other side of the joist.
Does anyone think this might work and might be compliant with NEC?
It seems to me that it is equivalent to running wood strips across all the joists and then fastening the flooring to those strips.

On Saturday, May 31, 2014 10:03:38 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Is it OK to drill round holes in the flooring where house wiring crosses the joists so that there is no pressure on the wires at those points?

Between the joists the wires would be pushed slightly below the flooring.

Thank you for advice.

I might also install protective metal plates over each of the holes.
Not only does this prevent accidental damage to the wiring but it also locates all the wiring on the floor of the attic. I would fasten both the 4x4's and the metal plates with screws for easy access.

From an engineering viewpoint, if you have to drill holes through a joist, the location of the hole that would least weaken the joist would be half way up the joist or higher as close to either end of the joist as possible.

On Sat, 31 May 2014 07:03:38 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Is it OK to drill round holes in the flooring where house wiring crosses the joists so that there is no pressure on the wires at those points?
Between the joists the wires would be pushed slightly below the flooring.
Thank you for advice.
No it is not. Wires must be 2 inches below the top of the joist.-
Aither drill the joists or strap the floor with minimum 2 inch
strapping to space the floor above the wiring, which would then need
to be strapped to the joists.

On Sat, 31 May 2014 17:38:48 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Saturday, May 31, 2014 10:03:38 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Is it OK to drill round holes in the flooring where house wiring crosses the joists so that there is no pressure on the wires at those points?

Between the joists the wires would be pushed slightly below the flooring.

Thank you for advice.

Thanks to all, but only Micky seems to understand my intentions. I planned to have Home Depot cut a bunch of 4x8's in half to make 4x4's.
Then I will assemble the smaller pieces (much easier to get them up into the attic) into a tile-like arrangement with each piece straddling 3 joists which, by the way are 2x6's. Any place that a 'tile' covers a wire I will mark it and cut out a hole with approximately a 3" diameter. Just enough to expose the width of the joist including a little extra space for the NM cable to enter the hole on one side of the joist, go over the width of the joist and go back down into the hole on the other side of the joist.
Does anyone think this might work and might be compliant with NEC?
It seems to me that it is equivalent to running wood strips across all the joists and then fastening the flooring to those strips.
Don'r do it. Not code. Not safe. Strap the floor with 2X2 oe sX4 on
flat .

On Sat, 31 May 2014 17:44:28 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Saturday, May 31, 2014 10:03:38 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Is it OK to drill round holes in the flooring where house wiring crosses the joists so that there is no pressure on the wires at those points?

Between the joists the wires would be pushed slightly below the flooring.

Thank you for advice.

I might also install protective metal plates over each of the holes.
Not only does this prevent accidental damage to the wiring but it also locates all the wiring on the floor of the attic. I would fasten both the 4x4's and the metal plates with screws for easy access.
Still not code.

On 5/31/2014 8:38 PM, wrote:

Thanks to all, but only Micky seems to understand my intentions. I planned to have Home Depot cut a bunch of 4x8's in half to make 4x4's.
Then I will assemble the smaller pieces (much easier to get them up into the attic) into a tile-like arrangement with each piece straddling 3 joists which, by the way are 2x6's. Any place that a 'tile' covers a wire I will mark it and cut out a hole with approximately a 3" diameter. Just enough to expose the width of the joist including a little extra space for the NM cable to enter the hole on one side of the joist, go over the width of the joist and go back down into the hole on the other side of the joist.
Does anyone think this might work and might be compliant with NEC?
It seems to me that it is equivalent to running wood strips across all the joists and then fastening the flooring to those strips.


If I understand this correctly, you will have a thru hole and an exposed
wire in the hole. If that is correct, it is a half assed solution, does
not meet code, and a potential danger.

I hope I'm wrong. Strapping seems to be the proper solution.

On Saturday, May 31, 2014 9:47:08 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2014 17:44:28 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



On Saturday, May 31, 2014 10:03:38 AM UTC-4, wrote:

Is it OK to drill round holes in the flooring where house wiring crosses the joists so that there is no pressure on the wires at those points?



Between the joists the wires would be pushed slightly below the flooring.



Thank you for advice.



I might also install protective metal plates over each of the holes.

Not only does this prevent accidental damage to the wiring but it also locates all the wiring on the floor of the attic. I would fasten both the 4x4's and the metal plates with screws for easy access.

Still not code.

I'm not so sure about that. You have a cite? Provided he cuts holes in
the plywood where the wire crosses
joists and then covers it with a metal protective plate, it would seem to
me that the cable is suitably protected. It's not exposed in any way. How
would the cable ever be subject to damage? You can run it exposed along
the side of a guard strip, so what's the problem with having it covered by
plywood and metal plate?

Let me try to translate....


Thanks to all, but only Micky seems to understand my intentions. I planned to have Home Depot cut a bunch of 4x8[SHEETS OF PLYWOOD] in half to make 4x4[SHEETS OF PLYWOOD].

Then I will assemble the smaller [4X4 SHEETS OF PLYWOOD](much easier to get them up into the attic) into a tile-like arrangement with each piece [OF PLYWOOD] straddling 3 joists which, by the way are 2x6's. Any place that a [4X4 SHEET OF PLYWOOD] covers a wire I will mark it and cut out a hole [in SHEET OF PLYWOOD]with approximately a 3" diameter. Just enough to expose the width of the joist including a little extra space for the NM cable to enter the hole [in SHEET OF PLYWOOD]on one side of the joist, go over the width of the joist and go back down into the hole [in SHEET OF PLYWOOD]on the other side of the joist.

Does anyone think this might work and might be compliant with NEC?

It seems to me that it is equivalent to running wood strips across all the joists and then fastening the flooring to those strips.

Is this what youare trying to do?

On Sat, 31 May 2014 11:03:41 -0400 in alt.home.repair, Ed Pawlowski
wrote,

If you have 2 x 8 beams and cut a 2" groove, you now have about the
strength of a 2 x 6. I think you'll find that a code violation too.

Worse than that, you have a stress raiser.

On Saturday, May 31, 2014 9:41:28 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2014 07:03:38 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



Is it OK to drill round holes in the flooring where house wiring crosses the joists so that there is no pressure on the wires at those points?

Between the joists the wires would be pushed slightly below the flooring.

Thank you for advice.

No it is not. Wires must be 2 inches below the top of the joist.-

IDK where that is coming from. You can't get 2" inside typical
interior 2x4 framed walls because the it's only 3 1/2 inches wide.



Aither drill the joists or strap the floor with minimum 2 inch

strapping to space the floor above the wiring, which would then need

to be strapped to the joists.

On 6/1/2014 9:22 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, May 31, 2014 9:41:28 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 31 May 2014 07:03:38 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Is it OK to drill round holes in the flooring where house wiring
crosses the joists so that there is no pressure on the wires at
those points?

Between the joists the wires would be pushed slightly below the flooring.

Thank you for advice.

No it is not. Wires must be 2 inches below the top of the joist.-

IDK where that is coming from. You can't get 2" inside typical
interior 2x4 framed walls because the it's only 3 1/2 inches wide.


US NEC requires if edge of hole in stud/beam is 1-1/4" from edge, then
it needs must have the 1/16" T steel cover plate over the location for
protection. I'd suspect Canadian Code to be very close to same if not
identical.

Aither drill the joists or strap the floor with minimum 2 inch
strapping to space the floor above the wiring, which would then need
to be strapped to the joists.

In unfinished attics, open cable across top of must have guard strips of
minimum height height/thickness of cable and if running across top,
can _NOT_ be unsupported, _MUST_ be on a running board, not suspended.
This is allowed if thru bored holes 4-1/2ft or less span (how they got
that one, I don't know... ).

The flooring either side of a cutout could serve as the guard strip but
I'd suggest covering the openings. I _think_ once the floor is in place
the "no hanging" requirement is removed as it then is protected from
having anything pulling it down or from being stepped on, etc., ...

--

On Sunday, June 1, 2014 1:43:56 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 6/1/2014 9:22 AM, trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, May 31, 2014 9:41:28 PM UTC-4, wrote:

On Sat, 31 May 2014 07:03:38 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



Is it OK to drill round holes in the flooring where house wiring

crosses the joists so that there is no pressure on the wires at

those points?



Between the joists the wires would be pushed slightly below the flooring.



Thank you for advice.



No it is not. Wires must be 2 inches below the top of the joist.-



IDK where that is coming from. You can't get 2" inside typical

interior 2x4 framed walls because the it's only 3 1/2 inches wide.





US NEC requires if edge of hole in stud/beam is 1-1/4" from edge, then

it needs must have the 1/16" T steel cover plate over the location for

protection. I'd suspect Canadian Code to be very close to same if not

identical.



Aither drill the joists or strap the floor with minimum 2 inch

strapping to space the floor above the wiring, which would then need

to be strapped to the joists.



In unfinished attics, open cable across top of must have guard strips of

minimum height height/thickness of cable and if running across top,

can _NOT_ be unsupported, _MUST_ be on a running board, not suspended.

This is allowed if thru bored holes 4-1/2ft or less span (how they got

that one, I don't know... ).



The flooring either side of a cutout could serve as the guard strip but

I'd suggest covering the openings. I _think_ once the floor is in place

the "no hanging" requirement is removed as it then is protected from

having anything pulling it down or from being stepped on, etc., ...



--

That's where I was at too. The flooring protects it except where the
cable crosses a joist, where he's proposing to cut a hole in the
flooring. If he does that, the cable is recessed and I'd cover it with a
metal nailing plate that are readily available in the building supply section of HD, etc. I would think most inspectors would pass that.

I think CLaire's argument is that once you cover it up, someone could
potentially drive a nail into the attic floor between joists and hit
the cable. I think that's unlikely though and the cable probably has
enough give in between that a nail would just move it, not pierce the cable anyway.

I guess if the OP wants the definitive answer, he could ask the local
inspector. The other factor here is with 2x6's you don't have much
insulation. If the OP is in most of the USA, and it's an unheated
attic, it would be a better idea to add some height, add more insulation
and that solves the problem too. That's what I'd be looking at, if
possible.

posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP


Is it OK to drill round holes in the flooring where house wiring crosses the joists so that there is no pressure on the wires at those points?
Between the joists the wires would be pushed slightly below the flooring.
Thank you for advice.

This has been asked & answered so many times before! Do your research.
Goggle is your friend.

--
Tekkie