I bought this inverter at you-know-where. I will be calling the tech
support number given in the manual, but I thought I'd run my questions by
you folks also.

http://t.harborfreight.com/1000-watt...oogle.co m%2F

1 -When I power it on, the fan starts, runs for about a second and then
stops. Is this normal? Will the fan start again if required?

2 - When I plug in a lamp with a 72W bulb, it works fine. When I plug in a
air mattress pump (120V, 1.0A) the pump may or may not start and the
inverter chirps its alarm. Sometimes the pump seems to run fine, other
times, not so much. The chirping is more evident and consistent when the
pump is running at what appears to be full speed.

Shouldn't even a cheap 1000W inverter be able to handle the pump without
breaking a sweat?

(I'd return it and try another inverter, but both of my local stores are
out of stock right now.)

On Thursday, May 22, 2014 7:54:12 AM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I bought this inverter at you-know-where. I will be calling the tech

support number given in the manual, but I thought I'd run my questions by

you folks also.



http://t.harborfreight.com/1000-watt...oogle.co m%2F



1 -When I power it on, the fan starts, runs for about a second and then

stops. Is this normal? Will the fan start again if required?



2 - When I plug in a lamp with a 72W bulb, it works fine. When I plug in a

air mattress pump (120V, 1.0A) the pump may or may not start and the

inverter chirps its alarm. Sometimes the pump seems to run fine, other

times, not so much. The chirping is more evident and consistent when the

pump is running at what appears to be full speed.



Shouldn't even a cheap 1000W inverter be able to handle the pump without

breaking a sweat?



(I'd return it and try another inverter, but both of my local stores are

out of stock right now.)

It sounds defective to me. It's rated 1000W continous, 2000 peak.
That should certainly be able to handle a small 1A motor. In the
reviews a guy said he used it to power his impact wrench to change a
tire......

O




Shouldn't even a cheap 1000W inverter be able to handle the pump without



breaking a sweat?



It sounds defective to me. It's rated 1000W continous, 2000 peak.

That should certainly be able to handle a small 1A motor. In the



to the op..

before we blame the inverter as being bad, please tell us how you connected the inverter to the 12V source.

You have to realize that 1000 Watts at `12 Volts is about 100 Amps. The cable and connections for the 12 V need to be like the wiring for the starter motor in your car.

Mark

On Thu, 22 May 2014 07:17:54 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

to the op..

before we blame the inverter as being bad, please tell us how you connected the inverter to the 12V source.

You have to realize that 1000 Watts at `12 Volts is about 100 Amps. The cable and connections for the 12 V need to be like the wiring for the starter motor in your car.

Mark

Cables are a separate item.

http://www.harborfreight.com/300Amp-6Ft-Inverter-Cable-Set-69537.html

On Thursday, May 22, 2014 11:15:59 AM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 22 May 2014 07:17:54 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



to the op..



before we blame the inverter as being bad, please tell us how you connected the inverter to the 12V source.



You have to realize that 1000 Watts at `12 Volts is about 100 Amps. The cable and connections for the 12 V need to be like the wiring for the starter motor in your car.



Mark



Cables are a separate item.



http://www.harborfreight.com/300Amp-6Ft-Inverter-Cable-Set-69537.html

I agree it would be good to know how he's got it hooked up. But on
the other hand, while it's *rated* at 1000W, the motor he's trying to run
is more like 120W. The inverter would have to pull maybe 12 amps to
support it, so if he has it wired in to something capable of supporting
even 12 amps or so, it should still work.

On Thu, 22 May 2014 12:38:38 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

http://www.harborfreight.com/300Amp-6Ft-Inverter-Cable-Set-69537.html

I agree it would be good to know how he's got it hooked up. But on
the other hand, while it's *rated* at 1000W, the motor he's trying to run
is more like 120W. The inverter would have to pull maybe 12 amps to
support it, so if he has it wired in to something capable of supporting
even 12 amps or so, it should still work.

One of the inverter reviews, a guy was disappointed, thought he could
just plug it into his cigarette lighter in the dash. The items comes
with no wires or cables it seems.

Derby, how it wired in. (I have no solutions on wiring as I've been
known to make smoke)

On Thursday, May 22, 2014 7:54:12 AM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I bought this inverter at you-know-where. I will be calling the tech

support number given in the manual, but I thought I'd run my questions by

you folks also.



http://t.harborfreight.com/1000-watt...oogle.co m%2F



1 -When I power it on, the fan starts, runs for about a second and then

stops. Is this normal? Will the fan start again if required?



2 - When I plug in a lamp with a 72W bulb, it works fine. When I plug in a

air mattress pump (120V, 1.0A) the pump may or may not start and the

inverter chirps its alarm. Sometimes the pump seems to run fine, other

times, not so much. The chirping is more evident and consistent when the

pump is running at what appears to be full speed.



Shouldn't even a cheap 1000W inverter be able to handle the pump without

breaking a sweat?



(I'd return it and try another inverter, but both of my local stores are

out of stock right now.)

Some of the cheap hi rpm motors are very noisy electrically. That might be why your inverter is unhappy.

Oren wrote:
On Thu, 22 May 2014 12:38:38 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

http://www.harborfreight.com/300Amp-6Ft-Inverter-Cable-Set-69537.html

I agree it would be good to know how he's got it hooked up. But on
the other hand, while it's *rated* at 1000W, the motor he's trying to run
is more like 120W. The inverter would have to pull maybe 12 amps to
support it, so if he has it wired in to something capable of supporting
even 12 amps or so, it should still work.

One of the inverter reviews, a guy was disappointed, thought he could
just plug it into his cigarette lighter in the dash. The items comes
with no wires or cables it seems.

Derby, how it wired in. (I have no solutions on wiring as I've been
known to make smoke)

I tried 2 different sources: One of those 12V "jump start" power packs and
the 12V accessory port in my van. In both cases I used a 12V extension
cord, probably 16g. Obviously not the right wire for this application.

If it's going to require those huge wire "starter motor" wires and end up
as permanent installation, then this device is not what I want.

On Thursday, May 22, 2014 8:03:19 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Oren wrote:

On Thu, 22 May 2014 12:38:38 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

wrote:



http://www.harborfreight.com/300Amp-6Ft-Inverter-Cable-Set-69537.html



I agree it would be good to know how he's got it hooked up. But on

the other hand, while it's *rated* at 1000W, the motor he's trying to run

is more like 120W. The inverter would have to pull maybe 12 amps to

support it, so if he has it wired in to something capable of supporting

even 12 amps or so, it should still work.



One of the inverter reviews, a guy was disappointed, thought he could

just plug it into his cigarette lighter in the dash. The items comes

with no wires or cables it seems.



Derby, how it wired in. (I have no solutions on wiring as I've been

known to make smoke)



I tried 2 different sources: One of those 12V "jump start" power packs and

the 12V accessory port in my van. In both cases I used a 12V extension

cord, probably 16g. Obviously not the right wire for this application.



If it's going to require those huge wire "starter motor" wires and end up

as permanent installation, then this device is not what I want.


According to the manual, you need 7 gauge wire to go 7 ft. That of course
is to support the full 1000W cont, 2000W peak. So, if you're looking for
anywhere near that, then you're not going to get it out of the aux outlet.
If you're looking to just run small loads like the current one, then you
could certainly get by with smaller wire. But you'd have to change the
fusing. It says it's fused for 120A, 40A x 3. If you can refuse it to
a lower value, then you could use say 10g, which is more manageable, but
it would reduce your max 120V power accordingly.

The other question is what can that aux outlet support? 10A? 15A?
If that's where you want to hook it up, then you're going to be limited
to 120W - 180W input power, maybe 20% less output.

Can you try hooking it up temporarily to the battery, maybe with some
jumper cables, etc?

trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, May 22, 2014 8:03:19 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:

....snip...


According to the manual, you need 7 gauge wire to go 7 ft. That of course
is to support the full 1000W cont, 2000W peak. So, if you're looking for
anywhere near that, then you're not going to get it out of the aux outlet.
If you're looking to just run small loads like the current one, then you
could certainly get by with smaller wire. But you'd have to change the
fusing. It says it's fused for 120A, 40A x 3. If you can refuse it to
a lower value, then you could use say 10g, which is more manageable, but
it would reduce your max 120V power accordingly.

The other question is what can that aux outlet support? 10A? 15A?
If that's where you want to hook it up, then you're going to be limited
to 120W - 180W input power, maybe 20% less output.

Can you try hooking it up temporarily to the battery, maybe with some
jumper cables, etc?

The aux outlet uses a 15A fuse.

I'll try jumper cables this weekend just to see how it works. I doubt that
I'm keeping the unit.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
I bought this inverter at you-know-where. I will be calling the tech
support number given in the manual, but I thought I'd run my questions by
you folks also.

http://t.harborfreight.com/1000-watt...oogle.co m%2F

1 -When I power it on, the fan starts, runs for about a second and then
stops. Is this normal? Will the fan start again if required?

2 - When I plug in a lamp with a 72W bulb, it works fine. When I plug in a
air mattress pump (120V, 1.0A) the pump may or may not start and the
inverter chirps its alarm. Sometimes the pump seems to run fine, other
times, not so much. The chirping is more evident and consistent when the
pump is running at what appears to be full speed.

Shouldn't even a cheap 1000W inverter be able to handle the pump without
breaking a sweat?

(I'd return it and try another inverter, but both of my local stores are
out of stock right now.)

Where does it say it's ok for motors ?

I would check basic operation with a heater 500-750 watts. It's going to
draw a bunch of amps. I bought a sine wave inverter. Never tried a motor
yet, but I've drawn a few amps. I can't say the brand name of mine. Got It
on eBay. I think the fan shuts off.

Greg

On Saturday, May 24, 2014 12:59:21 AM UTC-4, Gz wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

I bought this inverter at you-know-where. I will be calling the tech

support number given in the manual, but I thought I'd run my questions by

you folks also.



http://t.harborfreight.com/1000-watt...oogle.co m%2F



1 -When I power it on, the fan starts, runs for about a second and then

stops. Is this normal? Will the fan start again if required?



2 - When I plug in a lamp with a 72W bulb, it works fine. When I plug in a

air mattress pump (120V, 1.0A) the pump may or may not start and the

inverter chirps its alarm. Sometimes the pump seems to run fine, other

times, not so much. The chirping is more evident and consistent when the

pump is running at what appears to be full speed.



Shouldn't even a cheap 1000W inverter be able to handle the pump without

breaking a sweat?



(I'd return it and try another inverter, but both of my local stores are

out of stock right now.)



Where does it say it's ok for motors ?



In the manual it has a list of devices and their typical
power requirements. On that list are belt sander, chest
freezer, blender, AC, vacuum.....

It would be pretty useless if it couldn't even power a small 100W motor.

On 5/22/2014 4:54 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I bought this inverter at you-know-where. I will be calling the tech
support number given in the manual, but I thought I'd run my questions by
you folks also.

http://t.harborfreight.com/1000-watt...oogle.co m%2F

1 -When I power it on, the fan starts, runs for about a second and then
stops. Is this normal? Will the fan start again if required?

2 - When I plug in a lamp with a 72W bulb, it works fine. When I plug in a
air mattress pump (120V, 1.0A) the pump may or may not start and the
inverter chirps its alarm. Sometimes the pump seems to run fine, other
times, not so much. The chirping is more evident and consistent when the
pump is running at what appears to be full speed.

Shouldn't even a cheap 1000W inverter be able to handle the pump without
breaking a sweat?

(I'd return it and try another inverter, but both of my local stores are
out of stock right now.)

You could try another one, but it sounds like HF just rated the inverter
way too high. Or else you're not using sufficiently thick gauge wire.
The motor may be drawing more current when using a modified sine wave
that the inverter puts out. Allowing for losses in the conversion you
should use about 10AWG wire and connect directly to the battery. For
higher loads look at 4AWG wire, i.e.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007L6DYVS or 2AWG i.e.
http://www.harborfreight.com/automotive-motorcycle/power-inverters/300amp-6ft-inverter-cable-set-69537.html.

You may need the proper gauge wire even when you're operating the
inverter with a load that is far lower than it's capacity.

"Use an inverter" is often a stock answer in forums regarding running
120V devices off of 12V, but it's rarely a good answer. For laptops, an
Auto/Air adapter, essentially a DC-DC converter is a much better option.
For things like compressors, there are plenty of them with 12VDC motors.
And of course there are plenty of 12V light bulbs, i.e.
http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/15-watt-fluorescent-12-volt-bulb/44377.

On Saturday, May 24, 2014 10:53:29 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 5/22/2014 4:54 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I bought this inverter at you-know-where. I will be calling the tech

support number given in the manual, but I thought I'd run my questions by

you folks also.



http://t.harborfreight.com/1000-watt...oogle.co m%2F



1 -When I power it on, the fan starts, runs for about a second and then

stops. Is this normal? Will the fan start again if required?



2 - When I plug in a lamp with a 72W bulb, it works fine. When I plug in a

air mattress pump (120V, 1.0A) the pump may or may not start and the

inverter chirps its alarm. Sometimes the pump seems to run fine, other

times, not so much. The chirping is more evident and consistent when the

pump is running at what appears to be full speed.



Shouldn't even a cheap 1000W inverter be able to handle the pump without

breaking a sweat?



(I'd return it and try another inverter, but both of my local stores are

out of stock right now.)



You could try another one, but it sounds like HF just rated the inverter

way too high. Or else you're not using sufficiently thick gauge wire.

The motor may be drawing more current when using a modified sine wave

that the inverter puts out. Allowing for losses in the conversion you

should use about 10AWG wire and connect directly to the battery. For

higher loads look at 4AWG wire, i.e.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007L6DYVS or 2AWG i.e.

http://www.harborfreight.com/automotive-motorcycle/power-inverters/300amp-6ft-inverter-cable-set-69537.html.



You may need the proper gauge wire even when you're operating the

inverter with a load that is far lower than it's capacity.



Why would that be? Where would all the wasted power
be going? Makes no sense to me that you need the same
wire for 100W that you'd need for 1000W.

"sms" wrote in message
...
For things like compressors, there are plenty of them with 12VDC motors.
And of course there are plenty of 12V light bulbs, i.e.
http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/15-watt-fluorescent-12-volt-bulb/44377.


Those bulbs have their own built in inverter circuit. The LED types could
be a good way to go when the price comes down.

on the gauge of the input cable. awhile ago harbor freight was selling some cheap ones were copper plated steel. i looked into this because if the cables were real copper I could of bought them, stripped the connectors and insulation and made a fortune. this when copper prices spiked so much a few years ago.

so if the input cables arent solid copper this too would explain the poor performance

On Sat, 24 May 2014 07:53:29 -0700, sms
wrote:



You could try another one, but it sounds like HF just rated the inverter
way too high. Or else you're not using sufficiently thick gauge wire.
The motor may be drawing more current when using a modified sine wave
that the inverter puts out. Allowing for losses in the conversion you
should use about 10AWG wire and connect directly to the battery. For
higher loads look at 4AWG wire, i.e.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007L6DYVS or 2AWG i.e.
http://www.harborfreight.com/automotive-motorcycle/power-inverters/300amp-6ft-inverter-cable-set-69537.html.


I looked into using an inverter to power my house a while ago.
Instructions are all over the net,
The first thing you learn is you need heavy copper from the battery to
the inverter. I forgot the sizes, but it's thick copper, especially
is you're coming from a car/truck battery, and have the inverter out
of the engine bay.
Like jumper cables, you don't go cheap.
Lots of people do it right, and have no issues.

On Sat, 24 May 2014 05:10:59 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Where does it say it's ok for motors ?



In the manual it has a list of devices and their typical
power requirements. On that list are belt sander, chest
freezer, blender, AC, vacuum.....

It would be pretty useless if it couldn't even power a small 100W motor.

Manual states: (Troubleshooting)

Motor-operated device operates at incorrect speed. Load is only
inductive. Operate a lamp or heater at the same time to provide a more
balanced load.

(I have no clue) :-\
--
Liberals are like Chameleons. They keep changing colors. -- © Oren

On Sat, 24 May 2014 12:57:42 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sat, 24 May 2014 07:53:29 -0700, sms
wrote:



You could try another one, but it sounds like HF just rated the inverter
way too high. Or else you're not using sufficiently thick gauge wire.
The motor may be drawing more current when using a modified sine wave
that the inverter puts out. Allowing for losses in the conversion you
should use about 10AWG wire and connect directly to the battery. For
higher loads look at 4AWG wire, i.e.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007L6DYVS or 2AWG i.e.
http://www.harborfreight.com/automotive-motorcycle/power-inverters/300amp-6ft-inverter-cable-set-69537.html.


I looked into using an inverter to power my house a while ago.
Instructions are all over the net,
The first thing you learn is you need heavy copper from the battery to
the inverter. I forgot the sizes, but it's thick copper, especially
is you're coming from a car/truck battery, and have the inverter out
of the engine bay.
Like jumper cables, you don't go cheap.
Lots of people do it right, and have no issues.

But they are NOT running a house on a 12 volt inverter!!!!!! Running
even 1000 watts on a 12 volt battery pack is not a terribly wize
decision. 24, 26, or 48 volts makes a WHOLE LOT more sense.

On Saturday, May 24, 2014 3:24:30 PM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 24 May 2014 05:10:59 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

wrote:



Where does it say it's ok for motors ?







In the manual it has a list of devices and their typical

power requirements. On that list are belt sander, chest

freezer, blender, AC, vacuum.....



It would be pretty useless if it couldn't even power a small 100W motor.



Manual states: (Troubleshooting)



Motor-operated device operates at incorrect speed. Load is only

inductive. Operate a lamp or heater at the same time to provide a more

balanced load.



(I have no clue) :-\


That's an intersting idea worth trying. Easy too...

On Sat, 24 May 2014 15:51:57 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 24 May 2014 12:57:42 -0500, Vic Smith


I looked into using an inverter to power my house a while ago.
Instructions are all over the net,
The first thing you learn is you need heavy copper from the battery to
the inverter. I forgot the sizes, but it's thick copper, especially
is you're coming from a car/truck battery, and have the inverter out
of the engine bay.
Like jumper cables, you don't go cheap.
Lots of people do it right, and have no issues.

But they are NOT running a house on a 12 volt inverter!!!!!! Running
even 1000 watts on a 12 volt battery pack is not a terribly wize
decision. 24, 26, or 48 volts makes a WHOLE LOT more sense.

Some do, during outages. No big deal if done right. You're not going
to run your central air, and you'd probably buy a bigger inverter.
But for powering the fridge, some lights, etc., they work fine.
Fridge doesn't kick on often.
Typical car alt is 100 amps. Figure it out.
I didn't do it because the outages are rare here.
Not worth it.
Some contractors have permanent installs on their trucks for 120v
tools.
You just have to know what you're doing.

gregz wrote:

Where does it say it's ok for motors ?

I agree - the HF inverter is a square wave inverter, not a true sine wave
inverter. You might try a few other motors with similar draw and see how they
work before assuming you have a defective inverter.

On Sat, 24 May 2014 15:42:21 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sat, 24 May 2014 15:51:57 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 24 May 2014 12:57:42 -0500, Vic Smith


I looked into using an inverter to power my house a while ago.
Instructions are all over the net,
The first thing you learn is you need heavy copper from the battery to
the inverter. I forgot the sizes, but it's thick copper, especially
is you're coming from a car/truck battery, and have the inverter out
of the engine bay.
Like jumper cables, you don't go cheap.
Lots of people do it right, and have no issues.

But they are NOT running a house on a 12 volt inverter!!!!!! Running
even 1000 watts on a 12 volt battery pack is not a terribly wize
decision. 24, 26, or 48 volts makes a WHOLE LOT more sense.

Some do, during outages. No big deal if done right. You're not going
to run your central air, and you'd probably buy a bigger inverter.
But for powering the fridge, some lights, etc., they work fine.
Fridge doesn't kick on often.
Typical car alt is 100 amps. Figure it out.
I didn't do it because the outages are rare here.
Not worth it.
Some contractors have permanent installs on their trucks for 120v
tools.
You just have to know what you're doing.

The typical 100 amp alternator will burn out in as little as 20
minutes at full load. Just look at the guage of the wiring in the
alternator stators if you want to know why!!!!
My dad, an electrician, ran his 1/2" drill and when necessary his
skill saw off a belltronics converter installed on his old Dodge Van.
Note it was NOT an inverter - it produced 120vdc directly from the
alternator so there was never more than about 15 imps involved.

He got more "power" ot of the 38 amp Mopar alternator than you would
get out of a 1000 watt inverter on a 100 amp alternator

I was also involved in the setup of an "off grid" system in Burkina
Faso, west africa about 14 years ago. We converted from 12 to 24 volts
with Xantrex tue-sine inverters and were able to run 2 inverters (1000
watts each) instead of just one, on lighter cable with less voltage
drop and a whole lot less problems with primary connections due to the
reduced current draw. This was a solar system, with emergency
charging capability using the Toyota Diesel. - which was never
required.

So I think I know what I'm doing.

On Sat, 24 May 2014 22:04:06 -0400, wrote:



The typical 100 amp alternator will burn out in as little as 20
minutes at full load. Just look at the guage of the wiring in the
alternator stators if you want to know why!!!!

Like I said, you have to know what you're doing.
You never pull 100 amps.
Typical fridge pulls 3 amps running the compressor.
That's 33 12v amps, assuming 120v AC, but only when running the
compressor.
Throw in some amps for lights, you're still ok.
It's a viable emergency power source for some folks.
Plenty of examples of people who do it.

On Saturday, May 24, 2014 11:56:46 PM UTC-4, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sat, 24 May 2014 22:04:06 -0400, wrote:







The typical 100 amp alternator will burn out in as little as 20

minutes at full load. Just look at the guage of the wiring in the

alternator stators if you want to know why!!!!



Like I said, you have to know what you're doing.

You never pull 100 amps.

Typical fridge pulls 3 amps running the compressor.


Not the typical fridge in the last 3 decades. Before replacing
my old Frigidaire I used a Kilowatt meter to measure it. It
pulled 180W. The new replacement pulls 90W. I also saw similar
~90W number from a 8 year old fridge and also a freezer at a friends
house during Sandy.





That's 33 12v amps, assuming 120v AC, but only when running the

compressor.

More like one quarter to half that.




Throw in some amps for lights, you're still ok.

It's a viable emergency power source for some folks.

Plenty of examples of people who do it.

On Sat, 24 May 2014 22:56:46 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sat, 24 May 2014 22:04:06 -0400, wrote:



The typical 100 amp alternator will burn out in as little as 20
minutes at full load. Just look at the guage of the wiring in the
alternator stators if you want to know why!!!!

Like I said, you have to know what you're doing.
You never pull 100 amps.
Typical fridge pulls 3 amps running the compressor.
That's 33 12v amps, assuming 120v AC, but only when running the
compressor.
Throw in some amps for lights, you're still ok.
It's a viable emergency power source for some folks.
Plenty of examples of people who do it.

And plenty of GM alternators failed trying it.
And you underestimate the power required by a refrigerator. A 16cu ft
frost free refrigerator draws an average 724 watts. That's a LOT more
than 3 amps.

The statement was people can "run their house" on a 1000 watt inverter
run off the car battery. 60 watts for a tv (or more) plus a few 60
watt room lights - you have 300 watts in no time, then the fridge
comes on. Or you attempt to run your furnace. (another 500 to 800
watts). The 1000 watt inverter is going to be running pretty close to
it's limit - and so is the 100 amp alternator.

If you want short term, extremely limited power at very low
efficiency, run your car engine at idle to charge your 12 volt battery
to run your inverter. Much farther ahead to just buy a cheap 1000 or
2000 watt generator and siphon the gas out of your car to run it. The
generator can be purchaced for less money than a decent 1000 watt
inverter.

posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP


On Sat, 24 May 2014 15:42:21 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sat, 24 May 2014 15:51:57 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 24 May 2014 12:57:42 -0500, Vic Smith


I looked into using an inverter to power my house a while ago.
Instructions are all over the net,
The first thing you learn is you need heavy copper from the battery to
the inverter. I forgot the sizes, but it's thick copper, especially
is you're coming from a car/truck battery, and have the inverter out
of the engine bay.
Like jumper cables, you don't go cheap.
Lots of people do it right, and have no issues.

But they are NOT running a house on a 12 volt inverter!!!!!! Running
even 1000 watts on a 12 volt battery pack is not a terribly wize
decision. 24, 26, or 48 volts makes a WHOLE LOT more sense.

Some do, during outages. No big deal if done right. You're not going
to run your central air, and you'd probably buy a bigger inverter.
But for powering the fridge, some lights, etc., they work fine.
Fridge doesn't kick on often.
Typical car alt is 100 amps. Figure it out.
I didn't do it because the outages are rare here.
Not worth it.
Some contractors have permanent installs on their trucks for 120v
tools.
You just have to know what you're doing.

The typical 100 amp alternator will burn out in as little as 20
minutes at full load. Just look at the guage of the wiring in the
alternator stators if you want to know why!!!!
My dad, an electrician, ran his 1/2" drill and when necessary his
skill saw off a belltronics converter installed on his old Dodge Van.
Note it was NOT an inverter - it produced 120vdc directly from the
alternator so there was never more than about 15 imps involved.

He got more "power" ot of the 38 amp Mopar alternator than you would
get out of a 1000 watt inverter on a 100 amp alternator

I was also involved in the setup of an "off grid" system in Burkina
Faso, west africa about 14 years ago. We converted from 12 to 24 volts
with Xantrex tue-sine inverters and were able to run 2 inverters (1000
watts each) instead of just one, on lighter cable with less voltage
drop and a whole lot less problems with primary connections due to the
reduced current draw. This was a solar system, with emergency
charging capability using the Toyota Diesel. - which was never
required.

So I think I know what I'm doing.

Xanax converters? Oh my bad, I was daydreaming...

--
Tekkie

posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP


On Sat, 24 May 2014 22:56:46 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sat, 24 May 2014 22:04:06 -0400, wrote:



The typical 100 amp alternator will burn out in as little as 20
minutes at full load. Just look at the guage of the wiring in the
alternator stators if you want to know why!!!!

Like I said, you have to know what you're doing.
You never pull 100 amps.
Typical fridge pulls 3 amps running the compressor.
That's 33 12v amps, assuming 120v AC, but only when running the
compressor.
Throw in some amps for lights, you're still ok.
It's a viable emergency power source for some folks.
Plenty of examples of people who do it.

And plenty of GM alternators failed trying it.
And you underestimate the power required by a refrigerator. A 16cu ft
frost free refrigerator draws an average 724 watts. That's a LOT more
than 3 amps.

The statement was people can "run their house" on a 1000 watt inverter
run off the car battery. 60 watts for a tv (or more) plus a few 60
watt room lights - you have 300 watts in no time, then the fridge
comes on. Or you attempt to run your furnace. (another 500 to 800
watts). The 1000 watt inverter is going to be running pretty close to
it's limit - and so is the 100 amp alternator.

If you want short term, extremely limited power at very low
efficiency, run your car engine at idle to charge your 12 volt battery
to run your inverter. Much farther ahead to just buy a cheap 1000 or
2000 watt generator and siphon the gas out of your car to run it. The
generator can be purchaced for less money than a decent 1000 watt
inverter.

Make certain to run the exhaust into the kitchen for cooking purposes.

--
Tekkie

On Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 9:11:09 AM UTC-6, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, May 24, 2014 10:53:29 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 5/22/2014 4:54 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I bought this inverter at you-know-where. I will be calling the tech

support number given in the manual, but I thought I'd run my questions by

you folks also.

Keep in mind there are two sides(so to speak) of the inverter: 1. the 12 volt side and 2. the 120 volt side. The 12 volt side needs 10 times the amps to provide the same watts as what you see on the 120 volt side. Watts = volts X amps or if you do a little algebra Amps = watts/volts. So, if you are wanting to run a 120 volt electrical device, say a single 100-watt lightbulb, that pulls 100 watts at 120 volts then on the 120 volt side you have 100 watts/120 volts = 0.83 amps ON THE 120 VOLT SIDE...but on the 12 volt side that same 100 watts is pulling 100 watts/ 12 volts = 8.3 amps! So your 1.0 amp air mattress at 120 volts is pulling 10 amps from the 12 volt side. If you are going to run a hand drill that pulls 7 amps of 120 volt juice then it will pull 70 amps of 12volt juice. For a 1000 watt inverter measured on the 120 volt side you have to wire the 12 volt side with a wire size that will carry 1000 watts/12 volts = 83.3 amps!! To run 80 amps 10 feet you need an absolute minimum of 4 guage wire. And I say minimum because the calculations above do not provide any safety factor, just the minimum mathematical value. Wire guage capacity tables at given voltages are all over the internet.

http://t.harborfreight.com/1000-watt...oogle.co m%2F



1 -When I power it on, the fan starts, runs for about a second and then

stops. Is this normal? Will the fan start again if required?



2 - When I plug in a lamp with a 72W bulb, it works fine. When I plug in a

air mattress pump (120V, 1.0A) the pump may or may not start and the

inverter chirps its alarm. Sometimes the pump seems to run fine, other

times, not so much. The chirping is more evident and consistent when the

pump is running at what appears to be full speed.



Shouldn't even a cheap 1000W inverter be able to handle the pump without

breaking a sweat?



(I'd return it and try another inverter, but both of my local stores are

out of stock right now.)



You could try another one, but it sounds like HF just rated the inverter

way too high. Or else you're not using sufficiently thick gauge wire.

The motor may be drawing more current when using a modified sine wave

that the inverter puts out. Allowing for losses in the conversion you

should use about 10AWG wire and connect directly to the battery. For

higher loads look at 4AWG wire, i.e.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007L6DYVS or 2AWG i.e.

http://www.harborfreight.com/automotive-motorcycle/power-inverters/300amp-6ft-inverter-cable-set-69537.html.



You may need the proper gauge wire even when you're operating the

inverter with a load that is far lower than it's capacity.



Why would that be? Where would all the wasted power
be going? Makes no sense to me that you need the same
wire for 100W that you'd need for 1000W.

On Friday, May 1, 2015 at 12:33:01 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Saturday, May 24, 2014 at 9:11:09 AM UTC-6, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, May 24, 2014 10:53:29 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 5/22/2014 4:54 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I bought this inverter at you-know-where. I will be calling the tech

support number given in the manual, but I thought I'd run my questions by

you folks also.

Keep in mind there are two sides(so to speak) of the inverter: 1. the 12 volt side and 2. the 120 volt side. The 12 volt side needs 10 times the amps to provide the same watts as what you see on the 120 volt side. Watts = volts X amps or if you do a little algebra Amps = watts/volts. So, if you are wanting to run a 120 volt electrical device, say a single 100-watt lightbulb, that pulls 100 watts at 120 volts then on the 120 volt side you have 100 watts/120 volts = 0.83 amps ON THE 120 VOLT SIDE...but on the 12 volt side that same 100 watts is pulling 100 watts/ 12 volts = 8.3 amps! So your 1.0 amp air mattress at 120 volts is pulling 10 amps from the 12 volt side. If you are going to run a hand drill that pulls 7 amps of 120 volt juice then it will pull 70 amps of 12volt juice. For a 1000 watt inverter measured on the 120 volt side you have to wire the 12 volt side with a wire size that will carry 1000 watts/12 volts = 83.3 amps!! To run 80 amps 10 feet you need an absolute minimum of 4 guage wire. And I say minimum because the calculations above do not provide any safety factor, just the minimum mathematical value. Wire guage capacity tables at given voltages are all over the internet.

Old thread.

I agree with what you're saying above. What I disagreed with was:

"You may need the proper gauge wire even when you're operating the
inverter with a load that is far lower than it's capacity. "

Which seemed to be saying that you need wire that is rated for the
max capacity of the inverter, even if the actual load is far less.

replying to sms, Kerry Schultz wrote:
You should be using 0 gauge cable on any inverter rated @ or above 1500 w, If
not then you will not get the expected results. I power a huge compressor off
of a 5000w inverter from Harbor Freight. I use it daily out in the heat and
never have an issue

--
posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...ns-796523-.htm

replying to DerbyDad03, Tony944 wrote:
Dealing with inverters can be puzzle some from what I know. There is big
difference in construction of them most of them are rated for resistive load
not inductive which make big difference, you would need to put on it 1000W. of
resistive load to really know what is what.

--
posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...ns-796523-.htm

replying to trader_4, Tony944 wrote:
You did not specified the Voltage in/out? Also some inverters use lot power
even so you may not have any load on them!!!

--
posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...ns-796523-.htm

On Thu, 09 Jun 2016 16:16:25 -0400, Gableking teh moron.
wrote:

On Thu, 09 Jun 2016 19:44:01 +0000, Tony944
wrote:

replying to trader_4, Tony944 wrote:
You did not specified the Voltage in/out? Also some inverters use lot
power
even so you may not have any load on them!!!


Straighten this guy out eh?

ROFL. AS IF!

--
ga·ble
'gab?l/
noun
the part of a wall that encloses the end of a pitched roof.
a wall topped with a gable.
noun: gable end; plural noun: gable ends
a gable-shaped canopy over a window or door.

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/phot...213138,00.html
Gable
Gabled roofs are the kind young children typically draw. They have two
sloping sides that come together at a ridge, creating end walls with a
*triangular extension*, called a gable, at the top. The house shown here
has two gable roofs and two dormers, each with gable roofs of their own.
The slant, or pitch, of the gables varies, an inconsistency that many
builders try to avoid.

LOL

-

Have you heard about the lotusLoser
Beaten by the queen of Pembroke each time
Have you heard about the lotusLoser
He's a loser, but he still keeps on tryin'

Oohoohooh oooh

Sit down, take a look at yourself
Don't you want to be somebody
Someday somebody's gonna see inside
You have to face up, you can't run and hide

Have you heard about the lotusLoser
Beaten by the queen of Pembroke each time
Have you heard about the lotusLoser
He's a loser, but he still keeps on tryin'

Unlucky in love, least that's what they say
He lost his head and he gabled his heart away
He still keeps posting though there's nothing left
Staked his heart and lost, now he has to pay the cost

Have you heard about the lotusLoser
Beaten by the queen of Pembroke each time
Have you heard about the lotusLoser
He's a loser, but he still keeps on cryin'

"Fag. LOL", he smiles and says
Though this RMS is driving him crazy
He don't show what goes on in his head
But if you watch very close you'll see it all

Sit down, take a look at yourself
Don't you want to be somebody
Someday somebody's gonna see inside
You have to face up, you can't run and hide

Have you heard about the lotusLoser
Beaten by the queen of Pembroke each time
Have you heard about the lotusLoser
He's a loser, but he still keeps on cryin'

Have you heard about the lotusLoser
Have you heard about the lotusLoser
Have you heard about the lotusLoser
Now tell me have you heard about the lotusLoser

-

LOL

well i guess if we went to:

http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/color-summarizer/

and gave it the URL to the image THAT YOU POSTED IN POST:


http://i.imgur.com/gchDiBs.png

I took that on my way to eat lunch. I tried to make an index card with
backward writing so the SPANKY-SPANKY! reflection would show up with
frontward writing, but apparently I can't write backward legibly, so
you gets what you gets."

it would say "definitely not green", right???

http://i.imgur.com/1CkNIDC.png

D'OH!!!!

*SPNAKITY-SPNAKITY*

-

"People didn't cause the Great Depression, Liberal ko0kTarD. Governmental
policy did." - Fakey in MID 7880b90ad2ecebe35ba01b4557597d80%40dizum.com

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes...eat_Depression
"The initial stock market crash triggered a "panic sell-off" that made the
stock market go even lower."

so... so the "government" panicked, snickers?

funny that a bona-fide conservative horatio alger hero type would want the
government stepping in to save the stock market.

"Current theories may be broadly classified into two main points of view
and several heterodox points of view.

First, there are demand-driven theories, from Keynesian and institutional
economists who argue that the depression was caused by a widespread loss
of confidence that led to underconsumption. The demand-driven theories
argue that the financial crisis following the 1929 crash led to a sudden
and persistent reduction in consumption and investment spending.[1] Once
panic and deflation set in, many people believed they could avoid further
losses by keeping clear of the markets. Holding money therefore became
profitable as prices dropped lower and a given amount of money bought ever
more goods, exacerbating the drop in demand.

Second, there are the monetarists, who believe that the Great Depression
started as an ordinary recession, but that significant policy mistakes by
monetary authorities (especially the Federal Reserve), caused a shrinking
of the money supply which greatly exacerbated the economic situation,
causing a recession to descend into the Great Depression. Related to this
explanation are those who point to debt deflation causing those who borrow
to owe ever more in real terms."

wait? what? no major "third" konservative k0okTheory blaming the
government for everything mentioned?

odd, that. eh, lotusLoser?

-

the never-ending saga of fakey's "lotus"...
https://web.archive.org/web/20160408...om/e3OrQSq.png

-

"sines, sines, everywhere there's sines
blocking up the snickerTurds, breaking his mind"
http://i.imgur.com/Z4p1Z55.png

-

FNVWe attempts to rewrite physics texts in Message-ID:


"let's not forget that mine also had the correct applied mathematics
equations unlike fakey the supposed know-it-all:
phase A: 120*sin(2*pi*60*x)
phase B: 120*sin(2*pi*60*x+pi)
voltage difference between phase A and phase B at any point x in time:
120*sin(2*pi*60*x) - 120*sin(2*pi*60*x+pi) = 240*sin(2*pi*60*x)

Wrong, as has already been proven. What does it say below, you fecking
*moron*?

"The _sum_ E(θ) ‰¡ E(a) + E(b) can be written thusly:""

it says that you don't even know how to correctly apply mathematics to
real-world AC electricity, snickerTurds. it says that you're in denial
about the inversion of your AC legs.

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/text...power-systems/
http://sub.allaboutcircuits.com/images/02170.png
"To mathematically calculate voltage between €œhot€� wires, we must subtract
voltages, because their polarity marks show them to be opposed to each
other:"
http://sub.allaboutcircuits.com/images/12112.png

http://www.samlexamerica.com/support...Circuit s.pdf

on page 2:

** NOTE: The phase of Hot Leg 2 (Phase B) is in the
opposite direction - i.e., 180° apart from the phase
of Hot Leg L1 (Phase A)

*COUGH*
SPNAK!!

-

i know a guy on the internet who will draw a triangular sine wave in ASCII
art if you ask nicely./GROUCHO MARX
see: Message-ID:

-

snickerTurds can't seem to refute the following:

- begin snickerSinewaveStew.cpp --
/*
HOW TO RUN: download arbitrary precision libraries from:

http://www.hvks.com/Numerical/arbitrary_precision.html

place those files in a directory and save this file as
snickerSinewaveStew.cpp inside that same directory.

compiles with:

gcc -Wall -I. precisioncore.cpp snickerSinewaveStew.cpp -lstdc++

run with:

../a.out

enjoy the LULZ

*/
#include fprecision.h
#include iostream.h

using namespace std;

int main(){

//float_precision MIN=float_precision(0);
//float_precision MAX=float_precision(0);

float_precision STEP=float_precision(.0001);
float_precision t=float_precision(0); // time variable
float_precision sum=float_precision(0); // sum of SnickerTurd's
ridiculous sinewave mess
float_precision snickerPrediction=float_precision(2550.25); //
snickerTurd's erroneous k0oK-k'lame Sum
float_precision PI;
PI =_float_table(_PI,25);

// this while loop will run forever, but snickers doesn't understand why
while(sum snickerPrediction){

// fakey's Sinewave Stew(TM) see: MID:

sum = (float_precision(150) * float_precision(
sin(float_precision(120)*float_precision(2)*PI*t)) ) +
(float_precision(20.25) * float_precision(
sin(float_precision(33)*float_precision(2)*PI*t))) +
(float_precision(1400)* float_precision(
sin(float_precision(150)*float_precision(2)*PI*t)) ) +(float_precision(20)*
float_precision(sin(float_precision(5013)*float_pr ecision(2)*PI*t))) +
(float_precision(600)*float_precision(sin(float_pr ecision(13)*float_precision(2)*PI*t)))
+
(float_precision(360)*float_precision(sin(float_pr ecision(1209)*float_precision(2)*PI*t)));

// perhaps show a few values larger than +2300 to educate teh
snickerTurds
if(sumfloat_precision(2300)){
cout "t=" t " sum=" sum std::endl;
}
t = t+STEP;
}
/*

Message-ID:
"Oh, yeah... it's 2550.25 volts... so why does your graph not even
reach 2500 volts, given that eventually all the sinewaves will
constructively interfere (ie: *add* to each other) to *sum* to 2550.25
volts?"

Fakey, it doesn't reach 2500 volts because the summation of your sinewaves
never reaches that. They never reach their max values at the same time.
That's how stupid you are.

Message-ID:
"I most certainly *did* prove otherwise. It can't even arrive at the
correct sinewave summation voltage of 2550.25 volts"

Fakey, you only *proved* that you are too inept to graph the equations and
notice a few things about the interactions of their frequencies when
summed.

the next line of code is never executed, but snickers DEFINITELY can't
figure out why it isn't and instead has a bunch of lame excuses while
still having not produced a value for t where the sum=2550.25, as he has
k0okily proklamed in many usenet messages that are archived FOREVER.

*/
cout "snickerTurds was right! the sum is " sum " at time t="
t endl;
}
- end snickerSinewaveStew.cpp --

-

Fakey irrationally demands a theme song to foam to:
"all I really want your pathetic pwned ass to do is write me a classic
rock song as tribute to your Usenet Lord and Master..."


-

Somewhere Abouts Round Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:25:03 -0500, Friendly
Neighborhood Vote Wrangler Emeritus wrote:

snicker

Fag. LOL
Idiot. LOL
Moron. LOL
Tranny. LOL
Libtard. LOL
Crackhead. LOL
GableTard. LOL
DildoRider. LOL
Bad Musician. LOL
Stick Figure. LOL
Terrible Liar. LOL
Sinewave Spammer. LOL
Outerfilthing Stalker. LOL
Talentless FrothMonkey. LOL
Math Challenged Halfwit. LOL
Klimate Katastrophe Kook. LOL
Defeated Tearful Spankard. LOL
Waster Of Time To Save $10. LOL
Worst Maker Of Sinewaves In The History Of Usenet. LOL

the band strikes up a rousing version of "on top of old smokey"

on top of old snick-ers, all covered with Fag. LOL
is where my usenet lord and mas-ter
can go straight to hell*

*hell doesn't exist. hope everybody is having a productive evening.

-

http://i.imgur.com/2tH6zVB.jpg

http://cafepress.com/kooktown

http://i.imgur.com/pnWqhSG.jpg

-

If my poasts are offensive to you, you can always block all From: headers
containing ", unless you are an idiot who would like to
yammer about "morphing" and maybe try to lodge some frivolous complaints
to my news provider, then please be sure to ignore this helpful
information and have fun making an ass of yourself in public.

if that route of silencing those horrid opinions of mine that you
downloaded to your computer under duress doesn't work you can always try:
http://i.imgur.com/jlsN9JX.png?2

-

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop
The Gish Gallop is often used as an indirect argument from authority €” as
it appears to paint the galloper as an expert in a broad range of subjects
or with an extensive knowledge of an individual one. Simultaneously it
presents opponents (in spoken debates) or refuters (in written,
Internet-based ones) as incompetent bumblers who didn't do their homework
before the debate. Such emphasis on style over substance is the reason
many scientists disdain public debates as a forum for disseminating
opinions. - Page #1 from the Gospel of SnickerTurd

-

Coming soon! To a newsgroup near you!:

$ perl fakeyBot.pl
FakeyBot I'm FakeyBot. What's your name so I can Google-stalk you,
look you up on Radaris, and hurl invective and probably-illegal harrassing
bile from behind an anonymous dizum account? snicker
You Robert Michael Wolfe
FakeyBot Oh look, you're back again to polish my size 16 steel-toed
boot with your colon and listen to me talk about bestiality and cocks,
Robert. snicker
Robert you talk about cocks a lot.
FakeyBot Oh, I talk about sex a lot?
Robert gay sex, mostly...
FakeyBot Fag!

(just as useful as the original!)

-

snickers the wonderturd describes how he alerted lots of his kiddie pr0n
friends to the ensuing FBI sting in message
:
"That's easy enough to do... how do you think my crew uncovered the
largest CP ring using Tor and I2P, which we promptly turned over to
the FBI? I discovered a way to uncover the IP addresses the I2P users were
using, and a way of tracking Eepsites back to their IP addresses, then we
figured out that we could DDOS a Tor IP address and modify Tor headers
while checking whether a Tor hidden service was still up, then using
process of elimination to pinpoint the IP address hosting that hidden
service. It's not rocket science.

_The I2P community got all up in arms when I discussed on their forum how
I was doing it, and that it'd be a good way of cleaning up I2P so it can
get on with being a platform to research anonymous communication... my
distinct impression was that the "anonymity
research platform" story was just a cover story to allow pervs to
trade CP._ (NOTE: admits to participating in what he "suspected" was a
kiddie pr0n network.)

That Silk Road 2.0 was taken offline in the ensuing FBI Operation
Onymous was just icing on the cake."

-

Golden Killfile, June 2005
KOTM, November 2006
Bob Allisat Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, November 2006
Special Ops Cody Memorial Purple Heart, November 2006
Special Ops Cody Memorial Purple Heart, September 2007
Tony Sidaway Memorial "Drama Queen" Award, November 2006
Busted Urinal Award, April 2007
Order of the Holey Sockpuppet, September 2007
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle, September 2006
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle, April 2008
Tinfoil Sombrero, February 2007
AUK Mascot, September 2007
Putting the Awards Out of Order to Screw With the OCD ****heads, March 2016

replying to DerbyDad03, Tony944 wrote:
Use lamp in combine with pump. some solid state devices do not like inductive
load, by use of incandescent bulb in parallel that can cure the problem.

--
for full context, visit http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...ns-796523-.htm

On Thursday, August 25, 2016 at 1:44:04 PM UTC-4, Tony944 wrote:
replying to DerbyDad03, Tony944 wrote:
Use lamp in combine with pump. some solid state devices do not like inductive
load, by use of incandescent bulb in parallel that can cure the problem.


Thanks for the update, but you are replying to a question that I asked over
2 years ago. The inverter has been gathering dust in my garage as I no longer
need it. A jump-starter unit and 12V air mattress pump serves my purposes just fine, in fact even better, since it is more portable.

It sounds defective to me. It's rated 1000W continuous, 2000 peak. That should certainly be able to handle a small 1A motor. In the reviews a guy said he used it to power his impact wrench to change a tire.
https://inverterreview.com/novopal-2...ay-peak-4000w/

replying to DerbyDad03, HughMungus wrote:
I agree it would be good to know how he's got it hooked up. But on the other
hand, while it's *rated* at 1000W, the motor he's trying to run is more like
120W. The inverter would have to pull maybe 12 amps to support it, so if he
has it wired in to something capable of supporting even 12 amps or so, it
should still work. inverterreview.com

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ns-796523-.htm