I have a large, unfinished attice, with ceiling height of ~ 10 feet
at the peak. Currently there is no insulation on the roof or side
walls. In the summer it is extremely hot, refrigerator like during the
Connecticut winters. I am sure the attic temps extremes adversely
effect the temps in our living area, the first two floors.

I would like to add insulation, but unsure how to proceed. Do I add
battt insulation; with or without a vapor barrier? Would it be
prudent to also add add a radiant barrier. Can I apply sheet rock over
the suggested insualtion, to have a "finished' room?

dave

BTW I am new to this site, after I saw a link on another site. I am
sure impressed with the breadth of advise here - Great Find !!

On 2014-02-26, Dave C wrote:

BTW I am new to this site, after I saw a link on another site. I am
sure impressed with the breadth of advise here - Great Find !!

Oh boy! .....this outta be good.

nb

On 02/26/2014 09:31 AM, Dave C wrote:
I have a large, unfinished attice, with ceiling height of ~ 10 feet
at the peak. Currently there is no insulation on the roof or side
walls. In the summer it is extremely hot, refrigerator like during the
Connecticut winters. I am sure the attic temps extremes adversely
effect the temps in our living area, the first two floors.

I would like to add insulation, but unsure how to proceed. Do I add
battt insulation; with or without a vapor barrier? Would it be
prudent to also add add a radiant barrier. Can I apply sheet rock over
the suggested insualtion, to have a "finished' room?

dave

BTW I am new to this site, after I saw a link on another site. I am
sure impressed with the breadth of advise here - Great Find !!




The absolute most important thing to do is ensure that there is
insulation between the attic and your living space...VIZ: along the
floor of the attic.

Other than that, there should be plenty of vents in the roof
to allow heat to escape in the summer.

On 2/26/2014 10:38 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2014-02-26, Dave C wrote:

BTW I am new to this site, after I saw a link on another site. I am
sure impressed with the breadth of advise here - Great Find !!

Oh boy! .....this outta be good.

nb

I'd been wondering what site is this? Moaners
Hub, or the other one, can't think of the name
of it.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 2/26/2014 10:31 AM, Dave C wrote:

BTW I am new to this site, after I saw a link on another site. I am
sure impressed with the breadth of advise here - Great Find !!


So, tell us a bit. Are you reading this on a
web page? Browser? please post a URL.

Maybe this helps:
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Attic ceiling insulation
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 10:31:35 -0500
From: Dave C
Organization: Newsgroupdirect
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair


--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Dave C wrote:
I have a large, unfinished attice, with ceiling height of ~ 10 feet
at the peak. Currently there is no insulation on the roof or side
walls. In the summer it is extremely hot, refrigerator like during the
Connecticut winters. I am sure the attic temps extremes adversely
effect the temps in our living area, the first two floors.

I would like to add insulation, but unsure how to proceed. Do I add
battt insulation; with or without a vapor barrier? Would it be
prudent to also add add a radiant barrier. Can I apply sheet rock over
the suggested insualtion, to have a "finished' room?

dave

BTW I am new to this site, after I saw a link on another site. I am
sure impressed with the breadth of advise here - Great Find !!

Hi,
How could you have a house like that? No local building code? Sounds
like you are living in a hut. I think you are trolling!!!

On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 10:31:35 AM UTC-5, Dave C wrote:
I have a large, unfinished attice, with ceiling height of ~ 10 feet

at the peak. Currently there is no insulation on the roof or side

walls. In the summer it is extremely hot, refrigerator like during the

Connecticut winters. I am sure the attic temps extremes adversely

effect the temps in our living area, the first two floors.



I would like to add insulation, but unsure how to proceed. Do I add

battt insulation; with or without a vapor barrier? Would it be

prudent to also add add a radiant barrier. Can I apply sheet rock over

the suggested insualtion, to have a "finished' room?



dave



BTW I am new to this site, after I saw a link on another site. I am

sure impressed with the breadth of advise here - Great Find !!

The first thing that needs to be decided is if the attic
is going to be finished and made into a living space. That
determines where the insulation goes. Building codes also
apply to any such conversion, if it's allowed, required
means of egress, etc. Ten ft headroom at the peak isn't a lot.
You have to figure out how much usable space you get before
the headroom is gone, how low you can go by code, etc.

If it;s converted to living space, then the insulation
goes between the roof rafters, with a vapor barrier on the
side facing the living space, air baffles installed between
the rafters, under the roof deck, before the insulation goes
in to allow for airflow. Existing rafters may not allow for desired
insulation and may have to be built out using strips to
get increased depth.

If the attic is unfinished, then it's supposed to be cold
in winter, hot in summer. The insulation goes on the attic
bottom, between the ceiling joists. If you want to add more,
that can be done via a variety of methods, including
blowing in cellulose, which is probably the easiest.
Radiant barrier could also be stapled to the rafters, how
much that helps, is it worth it, questionable. Certainly
plenty of insulation over the ceiling joists is more important.
And proper ventilation of the attic, eg sufficient soffit vents
combined with ridge venting, making sure insulation doesn't block
the soffit vents, etc. is very important.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 2/26/2014 10:38 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2014-02-26, Dave C wrote:

BTW I am new to this site, after I saw a link on another site. I am
sure impressed with the breadth of advise here - Great Find !!

Oh boy! .....this outta be good.

nb

I'd been wondering what site is this? Moaners
Hub, or the other one, can't think of the name
of it.

I can't find a listing for Moaners Hub. It sounds like an interesting site
that you seem to know something about. Can you provide a URL?

On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 10:55:23 AM UTC-5, Tony Hwang wrote:
Dave C wrote:

I have a large, unfinished attice, with ceiling height of ~ 10 feet

at the peak. Currently there is no insulation on the roof or side

walls. In the summer it is extremely hot, refrigerator like during the

Connecticut winters. I am sure the attic temps extremes adversely

effect the temps in our living area, the first two floors.



I would like to add insulation, but unsure how to proceed. Do I add

battt insulation; with or without a vapor barrier? Would it be

prudent to also add add a radiant barrier. Can I apply sheet rock over

the suggested insualtion, to have a "finished' room?



dave



BTW I am new to this site, after I saw a link on another site. I am

sure impressed with the breadth of advise here - Great Find !!



Hi,

How could you have a house like that? No local building code? Sounds

like you are living in a hut. I think you are trolling!!!

A house like what? One with no insulation in the attic areas
under the roof and side walls? That's how houses with unfinished
attics are built and it certainly conforms to code.

On 02/26/2014 10:21 AM, wrote:



Hi,

How could you have a house like that? No local building code? Sounds

like you are living in a hut. I think you are trolling!!!

A house like what? One with no insulation in the attic areas
under the roof and side walls? That's how houses with unfinished
attics are built and it certainly conforms to code.




Yep...totally standard.

You have two general options. One would be to
just load up batts on the floor and make sure there
is venting in the space. That's cheap and easy,
saves on heating costs, but you lose use of the attic.
You can alternatively insulate the walls and ceiling,
then use the room for storage.

The better solution would be to insulate and finish
it off. For that there are a couple of important points:

* Make sure you don't have insulation in the floor.

* Make sure there's a ridge vent in the roof and soffet
vents, as well as space next to the roof. (One can
buy cheap styrofoam panels to achive that, if desired.)
The basic idea is that the wood in the roof needs venting
so that moisture doesn't get trapped in there and rot it.
A little research should make that all clear. The general
design of a cathedral ceiling is that hot air rises out through
the ridge vent, pulling fresh air in through the soffet vents,
providing a flow between the roof structure and the back of
the insulation.

Once you've taken care of the venting, insulate ceiling
and walls, add a vapor barrier, and drywall it.

I'm assuming you don't have any horizontal bracing and
that there are just low kneewalls on the sides. If there
is bracing it needs to stay. Drywall around it.

If the sidewalls are low kneewalls, it might make sense
to move in your finish walls and leave room in the eaves
for storage.

And what about skylights? You probably want to add
some window area and improve venting of the living space.
That's something to plan before closing it up. (A note for
maximizing skylight benefit: If you frame a 4" depth around
the top and bottom of the skylight you can graduate that
up to the 6" or 8" roof depth for a better look and more light.
It's hard to explain. If you look at a typical skylight you'll
see it's set deeply into the roof framing. The glass may be
8" or more from the ceiling plane. Imagine that inset as a
cardboard box. What I'm suggesting is to "fold out the top
and bottom flaps" of the box for a larger opening on the
ceiling side.)

However you do it all, just remember
that you want insulation behind the living space and free
air flow behind that. Vapor barrier is certainly a good idea.
It will help by retaining humidity in the winter. It will also
be required by some codes. But don't use fiberglass with
foil facing to get a barrier. Staple plastic around the entire
interior for a good seal.

Another issue is building permits. Do you plan to get
a permit? Is there a local building commision? In a typical
old New England house there could be lots of issues that
an inspector is not willing to grandfather in: Narrow stairway
up to the attic, insufficient window surface, etc. Before
you decide to get a permit, make sure there aren't any
problems like that.



"Dave C" wrote in message
...
|I have a large, unfinished attice, with ceiling height of ~ 10 feet
| at the peak. Currently there is no insulation on the roof or side
| walls. In the summer it is extremely hot, refrigerator like during the
| Connecticut winters. I am sure the attic temps extremes adversely
| effect the temps in our living area, the first two floors.
|
| I would like to add insulation, but unsure how to proceed. Do I add
| battt insulation; with or without a vapor barrier? Would it be
| prudent to also add add a radiant barrier. Can I apply sheet rock over
| the suggested insualtion, to have a "finished' room?
|
| dave
|
| BTW I am new to this site, after I saw a link on another site. I am
| sure impressed with the breadth of advise here - Great Find !!
|

On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 11:33:55 AM UTC-5, Mayayana wrote:
You have two general options. One would be to

just load up batts on the floor and make sure there

is venting in the space. That's cheap and easy,

saves on heating costs, but you lose use of the attic.

You can alternatively insulate the walls and ceiling,

then use the room for storage.



The better solution would be to insulate and finish

it off.

Why is that better? Unless he needs the space and the space
can be made into something really usefull, it's pointless.




For that there are a couple of important points:



* Make sure you don't have insulation in the floor.


There is insulation in the "floor" and I don't see any point
in tearing it out.






* Make sure there's a ridge vent in the roof and soffet

vents, as well as space next to the roof. (One can

buy cheap styrofoam panels to achive that, if desired.)

The basic idea is that the wood in the roof needs venting

so that moisture doesn't get trapped in there and rot it.

A little research should make that all clear. The general

design of a cathedral ceiling is that hot air rises out through

the ridge vent, pulling fresh air in through the soffet vents,

providing a flow between the roof structure and the back of

the insulation.



Once you've taken care of the venting, insulate ceiling

and walls, add a vapor barrier, and drywall it.



I'm assuming you don't have any horizontal bracing and

that there are just low kneewalls on the sides. If there

is bracing it needs to stay. Drywall around it.



If the sidewalls are low kneewalls, it might make sense

to move in your finish walls and leave room in the eaves

for storage.



And what about skylights? You probably want to add

some window area and improve venting of the living space.

That's something to plan before closing it up. (A note for

maximizing skylight benefit: If you frame a 4" depth around

the top and bottom of the skylight you can graduate that

up to the 6" or 8" roof depth for a better look and more light.

It's hard to explain. If you look at a typical skylight you'll

see it's set deeply into the roof framing. The glass may be

8" or more from the ceiling plane. Imagine that inset as a

cardboard box. What I'm suggesting is to "fold out the top

and bottom flaps" of the box for a larger opening on the

ceiling side.)



However you do it all, just remember

that you want insulation behind the living space and free

air flow behind that. Vapor barrier is certainly a good idea.

It will help by retaining humidity in the winter. It will also

be required by some codes.


Vapor barrier is universally required today in my experience.


But don't use fiberglass with

foil facing to get a barrier. Staple plastic around the entire

interior for a good seal.



Another issue is building permits. Do you plan to get

a permit? Is there a local building commision? In a typical

old New England house there could be lots of issues that

an inspector is not willing to grandfather in: Narrow stairway

up to the attic, insufficient window surface, etc. Before

you decide to get a permit, make sure there aren't any

problems like that.

It is also ok to insulate the rafters ***if the attic is to become full-time occupied space*** in addtion to the attic floor.

On 02/26/2014 01:59 PM, wrote:
It is also ok to insulate the rafters ***if the attic is to become full-time occupied space*** in addtion to the attic floor.




If you plan to occupy the attic, that's a whole different situation.

Someone else here can undoubtedly give you an answer.

On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 10:45:53 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 2/26/2014 10:31 AM, Dave C wrote:

BTW I am new to this site, after I saw a link on another site. I am
sure impressed with the breadth of advise here - Great Find !!


So, tell us a bit. Are you reading this on a
web page? Browser? please post a URL.

Maybe this helps:
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Attic ceiling insulation
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 10:31:35 -0500
From: Dave C
Organization: Newsgroupdirect
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
What the heck difference does it really make, Stormy??? You've got a
real bee in your bonnet about how the usenet is accessed.

As for the OP's question - IF you insulate the roof and side walls of
the attic, the vapor barrier goes on the "finished "side, and you need
ventilation on the "unfinished" side. if you line it out to use as
"conditioned space"

Otherwize, just make sure you have adequate insulation in the ceiling
of the upper story, and good ventilation in the attic. With the roof
shading the ceiling and protecting it from cold winds, and ventilated
to let heat and humidity out, the ceiling insulation has a bit less
work to do than the insulation in the roof would.

You COULD put radiant insulation on the bottom of the roof - it would
give you SOME advantage.

The only reason I would insulate the roof of the attic is if I wanted
to use it as "living space" - summer or winter. Otherwize I'd just
frame out the attiic floor and add another 8 inches of insulation and
lay down a plywood or chipboard floor if the area was to be used for
storage. (make sure any rewiring that needs to be done from the attic
is done FIRST!!!!!. - and seal the upper floor to prevent hot/moist
air from escaping into the attic.

On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 08:55:23 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Dave C wrote:
I have a large, unfinished attice, with ceiling height of ~ 10 feet
at the peak. Currently there is no insulation on the roof or side
walls. In the summer it is extremely hot, refrigerator like during the
Connecticut winters. I am sure the attic temps extremes adversely
effect the temps in our living area, the first two floors.

I would like to add insulation, but unsure how to proceed. Do I add
battt insulation; with or without a vapor barrier? Would it be
prudent to also add add a radiant barrier. Can I apply sheet rock over
the suggested insualtion, to have a "finished' room?

dave

BTW I am new to this site, after I saw a link on another site. I am
sure impressed with the breadth of advise here - Great Find !!

Hi,
How could you have a house like that? No local building code? Sounds
like you are living in a hut. I think you are trolling!!!
He might be, but my brother's 88 year old house (when he bought it)
is as the OP described. There was NO insualtion in the house. There
was no building code in effect when the house was built - and it was a
"well built" house at the time. Double brick construction, with well
over 10 feet fom the attic floor to the ridgepole, and a 12/12 pitch
roof. He insulated the roof and attic walls and drywalled the whole
attic, with a roughly 6 foot wide flat ceiling, crossventilated above
that, and troughers run from the soffits up to the vented ridge. It's
his wife's craft and sewing room and he has a drafting desk tucked
into the other end. Don't know if he can get to it any more or not!!!

On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 16:02:57 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 2/26/2014 10:38 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2014-02-26, Dave C wrote:

BTW I am new to this site, after I saw a link on another site. I am
sure impressed with the breadth of advise here - Great Find !!

Oh boy! .....this outta be good.

nb

I'd been wondering what site is this? Moaners
Hub, or the other one, can't think of the name
of it.

I can't find a listing for Moaners Hub. It sounds like an interesting site
that you seem to know something about. Can you provide a URL?
He wants to keep it to himself - because the full name is the ho
moaners club and he wants to keep all the moaning loose women to
himself

On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 11:33:55 -0500, "Mayayana"
wrote:

You have two general options. One would be to
just load up batts on the floor and make sure there
is venting in the space. That's cheap and easy,
saves on heating costs, but you lose use of the attic.
You can alternatively insulate the walls and ceiling,
then use the room for storage.

The better solution would be to insulate and finish
it off. For that there are a couple of important points:

* Make sure you don't have insulation in the floor.

Actually that is not a problem. Insulation in floors between stories
is not an issue - it is used for soundproofing. The only problem with
insulation between the upstairs and the attic is it will be a bit
harder to heat the attic...

* Make sure there's a ridge vent in the roof and soffet
vents, as well as space next to the roof. (One can
buy cheap styrofoam panels to achive that, if desired.)
The basic idea is that the wood in the roof needs venting
so that moisture doesn't get trapped in there and rot it.
A little research should make that all clear. The general
design of a cathedral ceiling is that hot air rises out through
the ridge vent, pulling fresh air in through the soffet vents,
providing a flow between the roof structure and the back of
the insulation.

Once you've taken care of the venting, insulate ceiling
and walls, add a vapor barrier, and drywall it.

I'm assuming you don't have any horizontal bracing and
that there are just low kneewalls on the sides. If there
is bracing it needs to stay. Drywall around it.

If the sidewalls are low kneewalls, it might make sense
to move in your finish walls and leave room in the eaves
for storage.

And what about skylights? You probably want to add
some window area and improve venting of the living space.
That's something to plan before closing it up. (A note for
maximizing skylight benefit: If you frame a 4" depth around
the top and bottom of the skylight you can graduate that
up to the 6" or 8" roof depth for a better look and more light.
It's hard to explain. If you look at a typical skylight you'll
see it's set deeply into the roof framing. The glass may be
8" or more from the ceiling plane. Imagine that inset as a
cardboard box. What I'm suggesting is to "fold out the top
and bottom flaps" of the box for a larger opening on the
ceiling side.)

However you do it all, just remember
that you want insulation behind the living space and free
air flow behind that. Vapor barrier is certainly a good idea.
It will help by retaining humidity in the winter. It will also
be required by some codes. But don't use fiberglass with
foil facing to get a barrier. Staple plastic around the entire
interior for a good seal.

Another issue is building permits. Do you plan to get
a permit? Is there a local building commision? In a typical
old New England house there could be lots of issues that
an inspector is not willing to grandfather in: Narrow stairway
up to the attic, insufficient window surface, etc. Before
you decide to get a permit, make sure there aren't any
problems like that.



"Dave C" wrote in message
.. .
|I have a large, unfinished attice, with ceiling height of ~ 10 feet
| at the peak. Currently there is no insulation on the roof or side
| walls. In the summer it is extremely hot, refrigerator like during the
| Connecticut winters. I am sure the attic temps extremes adversely
| effect the temps in our living area, the first two floors.
|
| I would like to add insulation, but unsure how to proceed. Do I add
| battt insulation; with or without a vapor barrier? Would it be
| prudent to also add add a radiant barrier. Can I apply sheet rock over
| the suggested insualtion, to have a "finished' room?
|
| dave
|
| BTW I am new to this site, after I saw a link on another site. I am
| sure impressed with the breadth of advise here - Great Find !!
|

On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 16:23:56 -0500, wrote:


The only reason I would insulate the roof of the attic is if I wanted
to use it as "living space" - summer or winter. Otherwize I'd just
frame out the attiic floor and add another 8 inches of insulation and
lay down a plywood or chipboard floor if the area was to be used for
storage. (make sure any rewiring that needs to be done from the attic
is done FIRST!!!!!. - and seal the upper floor to prevent hot/moist
air from escaping into the attic.

Watched a Mike Holmes episode (Holmes Inspection) last night (old?).

The attic had a window. It leaked down into the kitchen, the first day
the new owners moved in as it rained. The owners looked for access
into the "attic". Found no scuttle access, etc. Figured they had
"black mold" in the attic as the roofer had replaced the roof.

Owners felt deceived from none-disclosure by the prior owner. Neighbor
had mentioned tarps on the roof or such. Tarp was removed just prior
to sell.

Holmes removed the window, found their way in the attic and discovered
a finished attic with no stairs leading down to the second floor. They
found a post card from 1966. Turns out the prior owner never knew
there was an attic on the third level. Mr. Holmes went to work -
stripped the old and made it new, added a access ladder and door, did
the lights all over, couple small baseboard electric heaters, new
window.

A beautiful open storage space....

wrote:
On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 16:02:57 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 2/26/2014 10:38 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2014-02-26, Dave C wrote:

BTW I am new to this site, after I saw a link on another site. I am
sure impressed with the breadth of advise here - Great Find !!

Oh boy! .....this outta be good.

nb

I'd been wondering what site is this? Moaners
Hub, or the other one, can't think of the name
of it.

I can't find a listing for Moaners Hub. It sounds like an interesting site
that you seem to know something about. Can you provide a URL?
He wants to keep it to himself - because the full name is the ho
moaners club and he wants to keep all the moaning loose women to
himself

Yeah...you don't want to DAGS for Moaners Hub looking for it...or maybe you
do.

Oren wrote:
On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 16:23:56 -0500, wrote:


The only reason I would insulate the roof of the attic is if I wanted
to use it as "living space" - summer or winter. Otherwize I'd just
frame out the attiic floor and add another 8 inches of insulation and
lay down a plywood or chipboard floor if the area was to be used for
storage. (make sure any rewiring that needs to be done from the attic
is done FIRST!!!!!. - and seal the upper floor to prevent hot/moist
air from escaping into the attic.

Watched a Mike Holmes episode (Holmes Inspection) last night (old?).

The attic had a window. It leaked down into the kitchen, the first day
the new owners moved in as it rained. The owners looked for access
into the "attic". Found no scuttle access, etc. Figured they had
"black mold" in the attic as the roofer had replaced the roof.

Owners felt deceived from none-disclosure by the prior owner. Neighbor
had mentioned tarps on the roof or such. Tarp was removed just prior
to sell.

Holmes removed the window, found their way in the attic and discovered
a finished attic with no stairs leading down to the second floor. They
found a post card from 1966. Turns out the prior owner never knew
there was an attic on the third level. Mr. Holmes went to work -
stripped the old and made it new, added a access ladder and door, did
the lights all over, couple small baseboard electric heaters, new
window.

A beautiful open storage space....

If it was the same episode I watched a few months ago, they found the
remnants of a staircase, like maybe just the railing. They figured out that
the staircase was (originally) very narrow, something like 16" wide and had
a 180° turn in it.

Didn't they do kind of a holographic, computer simulated portrayal of what
the staircase must have looked like back when it was in service?

On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 23:47:40 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 16:23:56 -0500, wrote:


The only reason I would insulate the roof of the attic is if I wanted
to use it as "living space" - summer or winter. Otherwize I'd just
frame out the attiic floor and add another 8 inches of insulation and
lay down a plywood or chipboard floor if the area was to be used for
storage. (make sure any rewiring that needs to be done from the attic
is done FIRST!!!!!. - and seal the upper floor to prevent hot/moist
air from escaping into the attic.

Watched a Mike Holmes episode (Holmes Inspection) last night (old?).

The attic had a window. It leaked down into the kitchen, the first day
the new owners moved in as it rained. The owners looked for access
into the "attic". Found no scuttle access, etc. Figured they had
"black mold" in the attic as the roofer had replaced the roof.

Owners felt deceived from none-disclosure by the prior owner. Neighbor
had mentioned tarps on the roof or such. Tarp was removed just prior
to sell.

Holmes removed the window, found their way in the attic and discovered
a finished attic with no stairs leading down to the second floor. They
found a post card from 1966. Turns out the prior owner never knew
there was an attic on the third level. Mr. Holmes went to work -
stripped the old and made it new, added a access ladder and door, did
the lights all over, couple small baseboard electric heaters, new
window.

A beautiful open storage space....

If it was the same episode I watched a few months ago, they found the
remnants of a staircase, like maybe just the railing. They figured out that
the staircase was (originally) very narrow, something like 16" wide and had
a 180° turn in it.

Didn't they do kind of a holographic, computer simulated portrayal of what
the staircase must have looked like back when it was in service?

Yes. That was the show. Animations were made to depict the original
idea of the stairs. The house was ~ 100 years old.

The husband was originally from Jamaica I think. He told Mike
afterwards or said he hoped his wife would not get on his case from
now on. He fell in love with the house, but she was skeptical early
on.

He later blessed the attic with his traditional Jamaican heritage. I
never figured why they poured liquids in each corner - on a new wooden
floor

Mike Holmes said that if he lived there as a child the attic would
have be his bedroom....

Oren wrote:
On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 23:47:40 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 16:23:56 -0500, wrote:


The only reason I would insulate the roof of the attic is if I wanted
to use it as "living space" - summer or winter. Otherwize I'd just
frame out the attiic floor and add another 8 inches of insulation and
lay down a plywood or chipboard floor if the area was to be used for
storage. (make sure any rewiring that needs to be done from the attic
is done FIRST!!!!!. - and seal the upper floor to prevent hot/moist
air from escaping into the attic.

Watched a Mike Holmes episode (Holmes Inspection) last night (old?).

The attic had a window. It leaked down into the kitchen, the first day
the new owners moved in as it rained. The owners looked for access
into the "attic". Found no scuttle access, etc. Figured they had
"black mold" in the attic as the roofer had replaced the roof.

Owners felt deceived from none-disclosure by the prior owner. Neighbor
had mentioned tarps on the roof or such. Tarp was removed just prior
to sell.

Holmes removed the window, found their way in the attic and discovered
a finished attic with no stairs leading down to the second floor. They
found a post card from 1966. Turns out the prior owner never knew
there was an attic on the third level. Mr. Holmes went to work -
stripped the old and made it new, added a access ladder and door, did
the lights all over, couple small baseboard electric heaters, new
window.

A beautiful open storage space....

If it was the same episode I watched a few months ago, they found the
remnants of a staircase, like maybe just the railing. They figured out that
the staircase was (originally) very narrow, something like 16" wide and had
a 180° turn in it.

Didn't they do kind of a holographic, computer simulated portrayal of what
the staircase must have looked like back when it was in service?

Yes. That was the show. Animations were made to depict the original
idea of the stairs. The house was ~ 100 years old.

The husband was originally from Jamaica I think. He told Mike
afterwards or said he hoped his wife would not get on his case from
now on. He fell in love with the house, but she was skeptical early
on.

He later blessed the attic with his traditional Jamaican heritage. I
never figured why they poured liquids in each corner - on a new wooden
floor

Mike Holmes said that if he lived there as a child the attic would
have be his bedroom....

I gotta say that if I owned that house...no, wait...before I even _bought_
the house, I would have seen the 3rd floor window, gone up to the 2nd
floor, not found a 3rd floor and been curious. I would then have grabbed a
ladder and climbed up to find out what the window was for.

I find it hard to believe that the current owners, and the owner before
them, weren't curious about the window and never knew there was a third
floor. What did they think the window was doing there?

On Thu, 27 Feb 2014 01:14:57 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 23:47:40 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 16:23:56 -0500, wrote:


The only reason I would insulate the roof of the attic is if I wanted
to use it as "living space" - summer or winter. Otherwize I'd just
frame out the attiic floor and add another 8 inches of insulation and
lay down a plywood or chipboard floor if the area was to be used for
storage. (make sure any rewiring that needs to be done from the attic
is done FIRST!!!!!. - and seal the upper floor to prevent hot/moist
air from escaping into the attic.

Watched a Mike Holmes episode (Holmes Inspection) last night (old?).

The attic had a window. It leaked down into the kitchen, the first day
the new owners moved in as it rained. The owners looked for access
into the "attic". Found no scuttle access, etc. Figured they had
"black mold" in the attic as the roofer had replaced the roof.

Owners felt deceived from none-disclosure by the prior owner. Neighbor
had mentioned tarps on the roof or such. Tarp was removed just prior
to sell.

Holmes removed the window, found their way in the attic and discovered
a finished attic with no stairs leading down to the second floor. They
found a post card from 1966. Turns out the prior owner never knew
there was an attic on the third level. Mr. Holmes went to work -
stripped the old and made it new, added a access ladder and door, did
the lights all over, couple small baseboard electric heaters, new
window.

A beautiful open storage space....

If it was the same episode I watched a few months ago, they found the
remnants of a staircase, like maybe just the railing. They figured out that
the staircase was (originally) very narrow, something like 16" wide and had
a 180° turn in it.

Didn't they do kind of a holographic, computer simulated portrayal of what
the staircase must have looked like back when it was in service?

Yes. That was the show. Animations were made to depict the original
idea of the stairs. The house was ~ 100 years old.

The husband was originally from Jamaica I think. He told Mike
afterwards or said he hoped his wife would not get on his case from
now on. He fell in love with the house, but she was skeptical early
on.

He later blessed the attic with his traditional Jamaican heritage. I
never figured why they poured liquids in each corner - on a new wooden
floor

Mike Holmes said that if he lived there as a child the attic would
have be his bedroom....

I gotta say that if I owned that house...no, wait...before I even _bought_
the house, I would have seen the 3rd floor window, gone up to the 2nd
floor, not found a 3rd floor and been curious. I would then have grabbed a
ladder and climbed up to find out what the window was for.

I find it hard to believe that the current owners, and the owner before
them, weren't curious about the window and never knew there was a third
floor. What did they think the window was doing there?

My guess is that some people are not inquisitive enough. I sure would
be in buying any house. Except my present house. I bought it without
an inspector. I did it myself.

Holmes adds up the dollars for repairs that he fixes. Who pays for
that after the HO runs out of money?

Oren wrote:
On Thu, 27 Feb 2014 01:14:57 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 23:47:40 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 16:23:56 -0500, wrote:


The only reason I would insulate the roof of the attic is if I wanted
to use it as "living space" - summer or winter. Otherwize I'd just
frame out the attiic floor and add another 8 inches of insulation and
lay down a plywood or chipboard floor if the area was to be used for
storage. (make sure any rewiring that needs to be done from the attic
is done FIRST!!!!!. - and seal the upper floor to prevent hot/moist
air from escaping into the attic.

Watched a Mike Holmes episode (Holmes Inspection) last night (old?).

The attic had a window. It leaked down into the kitchen, the first day
the new owners moved in as it rained. The owners looked for access
into the "attic". Found no scuttle access, etc. Figured they had
"black mold" in the attic as the roofer had replaced the roof.

Owners felt deceived from none-disclosure by the prior owner. Neighbor
had mentioned tarps on the roof or such. Tarp was removed just prior
to sell.

Holmes removed the window, found their way in the attic and discovered
a finished attic with no stairs leading down to the second floor. They
found a post card from 1966. Turns out the prior owner never knew
there was an attic on the third level. Mr. Holmes went to work -
stripped the old and made it new, added a access ladder and door, did
the lights all over, couple small baseboard electric heaters, new
window.

A beautiful open storage space....

If it was the same episode I watched a few months ago, they found the
remnants of a staircase, like maybe just the railing. They figured out that
the staircase was (originally) very narrow, something like 16" wide and had
a 180° turn in it.

Didn't they do kind of a holographic, computer simulated portrayal of what
the staircase must have looked like back when it was in service?

Yes. That was the show. Animations were made to depict the original
idea of the stairs. The house was ~ 100 years old.

The husband was originally from Jamaica I think. He told Mike
afterwards or said he hoped his wife would not get on his case from
now on. He fell in love with the house, but she was skeptical early
on.

He later blessed the attic with his traditional Jamaican heritage. I
never figured why they poured liquids in each corner - on a new wooden
floor

Mike Holmes said that if he lived there as a child the attic would
have be his bedroom....

I gotta say that if I owned that house...no, wait...before I even _bought_
the house, I would have seen the 3rd floor window, gone up to the 2nd
floor, not found a 3rd floor and been curious. I would then have grabbed a
ladder and climbed up to find out what the window was for.

I find it hard to believe that the current owners, and the owner before
them, weren't curious about the window and never knew there was a third
floor. What did they think the window was doing there?

My guess is that some people are not inquisitive enough. I sure would
be in buying any house. Except my present house. I bought it without
an inspector. I did it myself.

Holmes adds up the dollars for repairs that he fixes. Who pays for
that after the HO runs out of money?

Stolen without permission from:

http://www.facebook.com/notes/hgtv/q...s/368222283430

Ashley Fabian Neri: My mom and I love your show; we watch it almost every
time it is on! I am wondering the same as most people do on here, who
covers the expense of fixing what people have had messed up?

Mike: The show is paid for in a lot of different ways--really depending on
the situation. If the homeowners were lucky and actually have some of their
construction budget left, they kick in. My crew is paid for by the
television production--my company. And we get a lot of materials donated by
sponsors. We have the subtrades volunteering their time€”and thats worth a
lot. They are great people. If the homeowner has no money left, we find it
somewhere in the budget. It all works out in the end.

On Thu, 27 Feb 2014 02:05:07 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Thu, 27 Feb 2014 01:14:57 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 23:47:40 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 16:23:56 -0500, wrote:


The only reason I would insulate the roof of the attic is if I wanted
to use it as "living space" - summer or winter. Otherwize I'd just
frame out the attiic floor and add another 8 inches of insulation and
lay down a plywood or chipboard floor if the area was to be used for
storage. (make sure any rewiring that needs to be done from the attic
is done FIRST!!!!!. - and seal the upper floor to prevent hot/moist
air from escaping into the attic.

Watched a Mike Holmes episode (Holmes Inspection) last night (old?).

The attic had a window. It leaked down into the kitchen, the first day
the new owners moved in as it rained. The owners looked for access
into the "attic". Found no scuttle access, etc. Figured they had
"black mold" in the attic as the roofer had replaced the roof.

Owners felt deceived from none-disclosure by the prior owner. Neighbor
had mentioned tarps on the roof or such. Tarp was removed just prior
to sell.

Holmes removed the window, found their way in the attic and discovered
a finished attic with no stairs leading down to the second floor. They
found a post card from 1966. Turns out the prior owner never knew
there was an attic on the third level. Mr. Holmes went to work -
stripped the old and made it new, added a access ladder and door, did
the lights all over, couple small baseboard electric heaters, new
window.

A beautiful open storage space....

If it was the same episode I watched a few months ago, they found the
remnants of a staircase, like maybe just the railing. They figured out that
the staircase was (originally) very narrow, something like 16" wide and had
a 180° turn in it.

Didn't they do kind of a holographic, computer simulated portrayal of what
the staircase must have looked like back when it was in service?

Yes. That was the show. Animations were made to depict the original
idea of the stairs. The house was ~ 100 years old.

The husband was originally from Jamaica I think. He told Mike
afterwards or said he hoped his wife would not get on his case from
now on. He fell in love with the house, but she was skeptical early
on.

He later blessed the attic with his traditional Jamaican heritage. I
never figured why they poured liquids in each corner - on a new wooden
floor

Mike Holmes said that if he lived there as a child the attic would
have be his bedroom....

I gotta say that if I owned that house...no, wait...before I even _bought_
the house, I would have seen the 3rd floor window, gone up to the 2nd
floor, not found a 3rd floor and been curious. I would then have grabbed a
ladder and climbed up to find out what the window was for.

I find it hard to believe that the current owners, and the owner before
them, weren't curious about the window and never knew there was a third
floor. What did they think the window was doing there?

My guess is that some people are not inquisitive enough. I sure would
be in buying any house. Except my present house. I bought it without
an inspector. I did it myself.

Holmes adds up the dollars for repairs that he fixes. Who pays for
that after the HO runs out of money?

Stolen without permission from:

http://www.facebook.com/notes/hgtv/q...s/368222283430

Ashley Fabian Neri: My mom and I love your show; we watch it almost every
time it is on! I am wondering the same as most people do on here, who
covers the expense of fixing what people have had messed up?

Mike: The show is paid for in a lot of different ways--really depending on
the situation. If the homeowners were lucky and actually have some of their
construction budget left, they kick in. My crew is paid for by the
television production--my company. And we get a lot of materials donated by
sponsors. We have the subtrades volunteering their time—and that’s worth a
lot. They are great people. If the homeowner has no money left, we find it
somewhere in the budget. It all works out in the end.

I kind of figured this and those with less money was supported by
volunteers, community support, and money from sponsors. It makes
sense now and follows my thoughts. Thanks.

On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 10:31:35 -0500, Dave C wrote:

I have a large, unfinished attice, with ceiling height of ~ 10 feet
at the peak. Currently there is no insulation on the roof or side
walls. In the summer it is extremely hot, refrigerator like during the
Connecticut winters. I am sure the attic temps extremes adversely
effect the temps in our living area, the first two floors.

I would like to add insulation, but unsure how to proceed. Do I add
battt insulation; with or without a vapor barrier? Would it be
prudent to also add add a radiant barrier. Can I apply sheet rock over
the suggested insualtion, to have a "finished' room?

dave

BTW I am new to this site, after I saw a link on another site. I am
sure impressed with the breadth of advise here - Great Find !!


As noted, I am new to this site. I will learn, how to more accurately
post my questions.

Answers to some of the comments received:

1) I just became aware of this Usenet site, as a result of a
"mis-post" to alt.windows7.general. His "doorbell install question"
was obviously NOT a Win 7 question. When I inquired of that poster, he
noted this site was the intended posting site.

2) My house is not a hut ! Iindeed it if I wanted to sell it, I could
easily get over $1M. It is a 3 story house (inc referenced, unfinished
attic) that is situated ~ 15 feet from Long Island Sound.

3) A major mistake that I made in my initial post, was NOT noting that
our attic is now basically a large, but unfinished room. There is no
ATTIC roof or wall insulation. There is existing attic floor
insulation (unknown depth??) between our attic floor and the second
floor living area.

-4) The attic has 3 windows areas - each with 2 to 4 window panes -
that open and provide summer cooling/ vent openings. I also use a fan
to increase the air exchange. In the winter, that un-heateed attic is
obviously real cold (CT).

-5) We get a LOT of solar heating, from the sun reflecting off the
ocean. That solar heating often, on sunny days, can raise our living
space temps by well over 25 degrees. (This second floor room is now 68
degrees, and the only heat is from "waste heat" from my PC. The
Branford outside temp is 20!).

-a) Obviously, in the summer, that added solar heating is unwanted.

I would like to insulate our attic area, to make it more useful year
round (I have my wood working shop in the attic). I also thought that
by insulatiing our attic, it would ALSO miminimze the seasonal temp
extremes in our first 2 floors (living areas). That issue was the
intent of my post.

No longer NEW to this site!! Hopefully I am Learning!!

ALWAYS appreciative of Good Advice!!

THX

dave

On Thu, 27 Feb 2014 10:00:27 -0500, Dave C wrote:

I would like to insulate our attic area, to make it more useful year
round (I have my wood working shop in the attic). I also thought that
by insulatiing our attic, it would ALSO miminimze the seasonal temp
extremes in our first 2 floors (living areas). That issue was the
intent of my post.

Might take some photos of the attic, post them on a free hosting site,
and then post links back here for people to see. AHR is a text only
group so links to photos are the way to go.

On Thursday, February 27, 2014 10:00:27 AM UTC-5, Dave C wrote:
On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 10:31:35 -0500, Dave C wrote:



I have a large, unfinished attice, with ceiling height of ~ 10 feet

at the peak. Currently there is no insulation on the roof or side

walls. In the summer it is extremely hot, refrigerator like during the

Connecticut winters. I am sure the attic temps extremes adversely

effect the temps in our living area, the first two floors.



I would like to add insulation, but unsure how to proceed. Do I add

battt insulation; with or without a vapor barrier? Would it be

prudent to also add add a radiant barrier. Can I apply sheet rock over

the suggested insualtion, to have a "finished' room?



dave



BTW I am new to this site, after I saw a link on another site. I am

sure impressed with the breadth of advise here - Great Find !!





As noted, I am new to this site. I will learn, how to more accurately

post my questions.



Answers to some of the comments received:



1) I just became aware of this Usenet site, as a result of a

"mis-post" to alt.windows7.general. His "doorbell install question"

was obviously NOT a Win 7 question. When I inquired of that poster, he

noted this site was the intended posting site.



2) My house is not a hut ! Iindeed it if I wanted to sell it, I could

easily get over $1M. It is a 3 story house (inc referenced, unfinished

attic) that is situated ~ 15 feet from Long Island Sound.



3) A major mistake that I made in my initial post, was NOT noting that

our attic is now basically a large, but unfinished room. There is no

ATTIC roof or wall insulation. There is existing attic floor

insulation (unknown depth??) between our attic floor and the second

floor living area.



-4) The attic has 3 windows areas - each with 2 to 4 window panes -

that open and provide summer cooling/ vent openings. I also use a fan

to increase the air exchange. In the winter, that un-heateed attic is

obviously real cold (CT).



-5) We get a LOT of solar heating, from the sun reflecting off the

ocean. That solar heating often, on sunny days, can raise our living

space temps by well over 25 degrees. (This second floor room is now 68

degrees, and the only heat is from "waste heat" from my PC. The

Branford outside temp is 20!).



-a) Obviously, in the summer, that added solar heating is unwanted.



I would like to insulate our attic area, to make it more useful year

round (I have my wood working shop in the attic).

See my earlier post.



I also thought that

by insulatiing our attic, it would ALSO miminimze the seasonal temp

extremes in our first 2 floors (living areas). That issue was the

intent of my post.



If the intent is to reduce the heat/cold going into the living
space, then the most effective solution is to add insulation,
eg blown in cellulose. If the intent is to make the attic a finished
liveing space, then that's a whole different matter.




No longer NEW to this site!! Hopefully I am Learning!!



ALWAYS appreciative of Good Advice!!



THX



dave

On 2014-02-26, notbob wrote:

Oh boy! .....this outta be good.

Oops! My bad. Wrong guy.

So let's say your attic has 200 square feet over which the ceiling is at least 5 feet high. Your window area must be at least 8% of 200 square feet (16 square feet). Meanwhile, the 4% openable area requirement means you need 8 square feet (4% of 200, that is) providing access to the outside. http://www.epdmcoatings.com/liquid-rubber.html