Have you had Frozen Pipes this winter?

It seems everyone I know has had frozen pipes this winter, even those in
the south, qwho normally dont experience such severe cold temps. It's
been a very severe winter, and I have actually given up on some pipes
that repeatedly keep freezing. Carrying containers of water si becoming
the norm, and is much less trouble than constantly fighting with frozen
pipes. I even drained the pipes in a trailer house that I have on my
property, and just gave up the battle till weather warms up. I have
pipes that NEVER froze since I moved to this farm about 15 years ago.
The heat tapes just can not keep up, while my electric bills are
frightening.

Even my sewer pipe is now frozen, going to the septic. I had to just
quit using the toilet, and use a camper toilet in the house, which gets
dumped outdoors. I disconnected the sewer pipe, and rigged a pipe
outdoors that just drains the gray water on the lawn. It's a major pain
in the ass, but what else can I do????

Come warmer weather, I'm going to redo some of these pipes. But for
now, all I can do is live with it, and wait till the weather warms up.

I'm posting this to find out how many of you are having these same
problems. I bet it's far more extensive than expected.
Come Spring, I bet plumbers are going to be making lots of money and
working overtime.

In article ,
wrote:
Have you had Frozen Pipes this winter?

No. We don't have any pipes on an exterior wall, and enough heat
leaks out of our HVAC ducting to keep the basement pretty warm.

Michigan.

Cindy Hamilton
--

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 13:52:48 -0600, wrote in


I disconnected the sewer pipe, and rigged a pipe
outdoors that just drains the gray water on the lawn.

How do you keep that from freezing?
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

writes:
Have you had Frozen Pipes this winter?

It seems everyone I know has had frozen pipes this winter, even those in
the south, qwho normally dont experience such severe cold temps. It's
been a very severe winter, and I have actually given up on some pipes
that repeatedly keep freezing. Carrying containers of water si becoming
the norm, and is much less trouble than constantly fighting with frozen
pipes. I even drained the pipes in a trailer house that I have on my
property, and just gave up the battle till weather warms up. I have
pipes that NEVER froze since I moved to this farm about 15 years ago.
The heat tapes just can not keep up, while my electric bills are
frightening.

Even my sewer pipe is now frozen, going to the septic. I had to just
quit using the toilet, and use a camper toilet in the house, which gets
dumped outdoors. I disconnected the sewer pipe, and rigged a pipe
outdoors that just drains the gray water on the lawn. It's a major pain
in the ass, but what else can I do????

Come warmer weather, I'm going to redo some of these pipes. But for
now, all I can do is live with it, and wait till the weather warms up.

I'm posting this to find out how many of you are having these same
problems. I bet it's far more extensive than expected.
Come Spring, I bet plumbers are going to be making lots of money and
working overtime.

I suspect that most people, who live in cold climes, bury their
water pipes below the frost line where they won't freeze. Same with
the SWD lines.

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 20:22:48 GMT, (Cindy Hamilton)
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:
Have you had Frozen Pipes this winter?

No. We don't have any pipes on an exterior wall, and enough heat
leaks out of our HVAC ducting to keep the basement pretty warm.

Michigan.

Cindy Hamilton

Up here in Ontario we have a finished basement - heated and cooled
with the rest of the house. Coldest winter in decades - and no frozen
pipes.

In article ,
wrote:
Have you had Frozen Pipes this winter?

No.

...snipped...
--
Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one.

Larry W. - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

Well I replaced a bunch of copper at my GFs nieces home, copper had frozen and burst.

I got the one bathroom and washing machine working but ran out of sharkbites and all local sources were out of stock.

theres another bathroom to do, I relocated some lines that froze to indoor areas, and have to insulate a crawlspace because a trap freezes down there.

Have thought about relocxating the trap to the washer into a heated area so it never freezes again

On 2/10/2014 2:52 PM, wrote:
Have you had Frozen Pipes this winter?

It seems everyone I know has had frozen pipes this winter, even those in
the south, qwho normally dont experience such severe cold temps. It's
been a very severe winter, and I have actually given up on some pipes
that repeatedly keep freezing. Carrying containers of water si becoming
the norm, and is much less trouble than constantly fighting with frozen
pipes. I even drained the pipes in a trailer house that I have on my
property, and just gave up the battle till weather warms up. I have
pipes that NEVER froze since I moved to this farm about 15 years ago.
The heat tapes just can not keep up, while my electric bills are
frightening.

Even my sewer pipe is now frozen, going to the septic. I had to just
quit using the toilet, and use a camper toilet in the house, which gets
dumped outdoors. I disconnected the sewer pipe, and rigged a pipe
outdoors that just drains the gray water on the lawn. It's a major pain
in the ass, but what else can I do????

Come warmer weather, I'm going to redo some of these pipes. But for
now, all I can do is live with it, and wait till the weather warms up.

I'm posting this to find out how many of you are having these same
problems. I bet it's far more extensive than expected.
Come Spring, I bet plumbers are going to be making lots of money and
working overtime.


For sure! I'm in Western NY, USA. One night it was -2 F
and the wind was blowing from the north, which it seldom
does. And that is the direction of my water heater
cabinet. The cold blast froze some stretch of unwrapped
pipe which had ever given me trouble before. I got on it
with a hair dryer, and then later a ceramic heater in the
WH cabinet. Loosened up after a while. I was fortunate,
no splits, breaks, leaks.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message news:JWaKu.34593

stuff snipped

I suspect that most people, who live in cold climes, bury their
water pipes below the frost line where they won't freeze. Same with
the SWD lines.

Are those frost lines set in stone? Seems to me a long, long spell of artic
air could allow the cold to penetrate below the frostline. Anyone know of
data regarding how long it takes surface temperatures of say 0F to permeate
the ground below? I guess it's off to Google again.

http://www.innovateus.net/earth-matters/what-frost-line

Says: " The depth of frost line ranges in the U.S from about 3 to 6 feet.
Below that depth the temperature stays constant 50° F"

I seem to remember that being true from an article I did 30 years ago about
rammed earth homes that were being built in the side of mountain but I
couldn't swear to it. Don't we have any ex-miners or mining engineers
around?

It seems apparent that most municipalities would put their mains below frost
lines but they seem to be breaking anyway:

Here's something I found online:

http://gazettextra.com/article/20140...140209861/1060

Marcia Nelesen
February 6, 2014

[picture] Matt Trickel, a superintendent with Woodward Petroleum, connects
an electrical cable to thaw frozen pipes running to a home on Joliet Avenue
in Janesville.

JANESVILLE--The extended, bitter cold is pushing the ground frost so deep it
is freezing the water in buried pipes that connect Janesville homes to water
mains under streets.
One Janesville resident returned Saturday from an eight-day holiday to be
greeted with a trickle of water from his faucets and then nothing at all.
Water department workers determined the water had frozen somewhere on its
way from the main to his home.

Have you noticed your cold tap water is really, really cold? That's because
the pipes buried outdoors are really, really cold.

The 16 workers in the Janesville Water Department this season have been
dealing with a record number of water main breaks, about 48 so far, said
Dave Botts, utility director.

"But now we're getting all these freeze-ups," Botts said. "We have to have
guys out dealing with that."

Workers are on call 24/7, and there have been only a couple of days since
the end of December when crews haven't been called in, Botts said.

There won't be any letup for at least the next 10 days. More low
temperatures below zero are predicted, and highs are not expected to climb
above freezing.

Normally, the water department will get one or two calls a season concerning
a service pipe freezing, and those usually are in crawl spaces or basements,
Botts said.

"Not in the ground like we are seeing," Botts said.

If the pipe is frozen between the stop box-which usually is located at the
property line-and the home, it is the property owner's responsibility. If
the water is frozen from the stop box to the water main under the street,
it's the city's responsibility.

The department in recent weeks has responded to about 60 private line
freezes and 15 to 20 freezes on the city side.

On 2/10/2014 7:34 PM, bob haller wrote:
Well I replaced a bunch of copper at my GFs nieces home, copper had frozen and burst.


Did you use PEX? That may help in the future.

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message ...




I suspect that most people, who live in cold climes, bury their
water pipes below the frost line where they won't freeze. Same with
the SWD lines.

I lived where we had many nights of minus 35 degrees. Had 6 weeks one year
that was minus 35 for several lows and 29 degrees for the high. No problems.
Frost line was 9 feet deep and water and sewer were deeper. WW

WW wrote:


"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message ...




I suspect that most people, who live in cold climes, bury their
water pipes below the frost line where they won't freeze. Same with
the SWD lines.

I lived where we had many nights of minus 35 degrees. Had 6 weeks one
year that was minus 35 for several lows and 29 degrees for the high. No
problems. Frost line was 9 feet deep and water and sewer were deeper. WW
Hi,
Exactly, I did not have any water pipe freezing in the past ~50 years.
Even ~15 year old all season cabin in the mountain did not have any issues.

wrote in message
...
Have you had Frozen Pipes this winter?

It seems everyone I know has had frozen pipes this winter, even those in
the south, qwho normally dont experience such severe cold temps. It's
been a very severe winter, and I have actually given up on some pipes
that repeatedly keep freezing. Carrying containers of water si becoming
the norm, and is much less trouble than constantly fighting with frozen
pipes. I even drained the pipes in a trailer house that I have on my
property, and just gave up the battle till weather warms up. I have
pipes that NEVER froze since I moved to this farm about 15 years ago.
The heat tapes just can not keep up, while my electric bills are
frightening.

Even my sewer pipe is now frozen, going to the septic. I had to just
quit using the toilet, and use a camper toilet in the house, which gets
dumped outdoors. I disconnected the sewer pipe, and rigged a pipe
outdoors that just drains the gray water on the lawn. It's a major pain
in the ass, but what else can I do????

Come warmer weather, I'm going to redo some of these pipes. But for
now, all I can do is live with it, and wait till the weather warms up.

I'm posting this to find out how many of you are having these same
problems. I bet it's far more extensive than expected.
Come Spring, I bet plumbers are going to be making lots of money and
working overtime.

I have not here in WA and we have had two cold snaps, both with record
temps. We didn't even have the house fully heated either. We have
baseboard heat and it was off in many rooms.

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 14:42:29 -0600, CRNG
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 13:52:48 -0600, wrote in


I disconnected the sewer pipe, and rigged a pipe
outdoors that just drains the gray water on the lawn.

How do you keep that from freezing?

Plenty of pitch, the end is raised off the lawn surface so it dont form
an ice blob and plug it. I'm fortunate to be going downhill, so this
works out for me. I also shovel away snow buildup after snow storms and
drifting at the pipe end.

wrote in message
...
Have you had Frozen Pipes this winter?

It seems everyone I know has had frozen pipes this winter, even those in
the south, qwho normally dont experience such severe cold temps. It's
been a very severe winter, and I have actually given up on some pipes
that repeatedly keep freezing. Carrying containers of water si becoming
the norm, and is much less trouble than constantly fighting with frozen
pipes. I even drained the pipes in a trailer house that I have on my
property, and just gave up the battle till weather warms up. I have
pipes that NEVER froze since I moved to this farm about 15 years ago.
The heat tapes just can not keep up, while my electric bills are
frightening.

Even my sewer pipe is now frozen, going to the septic. I had to just
quit using the toilet, and use a camper toilet in the house, which gets
dumped outdoors. I disconnected the sewer pipe, and rigged a pipe
outdoors that just drains the gray water on the lawn. It's a major pain
in the ass, but what else can I do????

Come warmer weather, I'm going to redo some of these pipes. But for
now, all I can do is live with it, and wait till the weather warms up.

I'm posting this to find out how many of you are having these same
problems. I bet it's far more extensive than expected.
Come Spring, I bet plumbers are going to be making lots of money and
working overtime.

There is a cure for this so long as you don't have a water meter.
Just leave the tap/faucet trickling/dripping.
You want the faucet furthest away from the incoming pipe so that as much
pipework as possible is protected.
Enough water comes through to prevent freezing.
Make sure the drain doesn't freeze up.

The colder it gets, the more water you need to be running through.
In the UK, a fast drip is sufficient and only by night. Maybe you need more
in the US.
Even if you do have a water meter it might be worth it.

On Monday, February 10, 2014 9:49:00 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/10/2014 7:34 PM, bob haller wrote:

Well I replaced a bunch of copper at my GFs nieces home, copper had frozen and burst.





Did you use PEX? That may help in the future.

yep PEX its cheap easy to install, freeze tolerant and sharkbites make it dead easy

On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 12:06:47 PM UTC-5, harry wrote:
wrote in message

...

Have you had Frozen Pipes this winter?



It seems everyone I know has had frozen pipes this winter, even those in

the south, qwho normally dont experience such severe cold temps. It's

been a very severe winter, and I have actually given up on some pipes

that repeatedly keep freezing. Carrying containers of water si becoming

the norm, and is much less trouble than constantly fighting with frozen

pipes. I even drained the pipes in a trailer house that I have on my

property, and just gave up the battle till weather warms up. I have

pipes that NEVER froze since I moved to this farm about 15 years ago.

The heat tapes just can not keep up, while my electric bills are

frightening.



Even my sewer pipe is now frozen, going to the septic. I had to just

quit using the toilet, and use a camper toilet in the house, which gets

dumped outdoors. I disconnected the sewer pipe, and rigged a pipe

outdoors that just drains the gray water on the lawn. It's a major pain

in the ass, but what else can I do????



Come warmer weather, I'm going to redo some of these pipes. But for

now, all I can do is live with it, and wait till the weather warms up.



I'm posting this to find out how many of you are having these same

problems. I bet it's far more extensive than expected.

Come Spring, I bet plumbers are going to be making lots of money and

working overtime.



There is a cure for this so long as you don't have a water meter.

Just leave the tap/faucet trickling/dripping.

You want the faucet furthest away from the incoming pipe so that as much

pipework as possible is protected.

Enough water comes through to prevent freezing.

I think the key here is that enough water has to be flowing.
I see people all the time saying just leave a faucet dripping.
It would seem to me that the flow that's needed to keep
one foot of 1/2" pipe in a wall that's partly insulated from
freezing is going to be a lot less than the flow required to
keep 20 ft of 1" pipe that's more exposed from freezing.




Make sure the drain doesn't freeze up.



The colder it gets, the more water you need to be running through.

In the UK, a fast drip is sufficient and only by night. Maybe you need more

in the US.


I think it depends on the temperature and the pipe you're trying
to protect.


As to the original question, the only thing I know of that froze
here is a friend who had the furnace in his attic shut down. The
furnace is horizontal, with the condensate drain trap on the bottom.
So, you have a small plastic tank of water sitting there. I guess if
the furnace ran enough, it might avoid freezing. But it's setback
for long periods to 50F, so it might not run for hours. Condensate
trap froze and cracked. How that ever passed inspection, IDK.
Should clearly have been heat taped and the condensate line, where
it's exposed should be taped too. All they did was put pipe insulation
over the condensate line and even that, they missed spots.

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 09:24:28 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

Well I replaced a bunch of copper at my GFs nieces home, copper had frozen and burst.

Did you use PEX? That may help in the future.

yep PEX its cheap easy to install, freeze tolerant and sharkbites make it dead easy

While the PEX pipe itself is not supposed to burst when frozen, I
question what happens to the brass fittings, and particularly those
sharkbites????

I also wonder how CPVC pipe compares as far as staying intact when
freezing? CPVC is even easierr to install than PEX, and while the pice
prices are about the same, the fittings for the CPVC are much cheaper.

I do agree, copper pipe is probably the worst for durability when it
freezes. Even the old galvanized steel held up better.

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 17:06:47 -0000, "harryagain"
wrote:


There is a cure for this so long as you don't have a water meter.
Just leave the tap/faucet trickling/dripping.
You want the faucet furthest away from the incoming pipe so that as much
pipework as possible is protected.
Enough water comes through to prevent freezing.
Make sure the drain doesn't freeze up.

The colder it gets, the more water you need to be running through.
In the UK, a fast drip is sufficient and only by night. Maybe you need more
in the US.
Even if you do have a water meter it might be worth it.


I posted this awhile back. I have a trailer house on my farm, which I'm
rebuilding for guests and storage. I left the water turned on in early
winter, because it's heated (but barely at 40deg). I planned to work in
there over winter, so I left it on. There is a drippy tab faucet, which
I plan to replace. While that faucet dripped, the water line did not
freeze. But the drain pipe did. Froze solid, one drip at a time.
Since I didn't go in there daily, it damn near overflowed the tub.

This all occurred BEFORE the worst of the cold weather. After unthawing
that sewer pipe, I shut off the water in the trailer. Now the water
line is frozen UNDERGROUND. There is heat tape above ground. I opened
the pipe right where it enters the trailer. Then i shoved some tubing
down, and measured it. Yep, frozen just below ground level (who knows
how deep).

Since I dont really need the water in there, it's not a big problem.
It's been too damn cold to work in there anyhow!

On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 1:47:17 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 09:24:28 -0800 (PST), bob haller

wrote:



Well I replaced a bunch of copper at my GFs nieces home, copper had frozen and burst.



Did you use PEX? That may help in the future.



yep PEX its cheap easy to install, freeze tolerant and sharkbites make it dead easy



While the PEX pipe itself is not supposed to burst when frozen, I

question what happens to the brass fittings, and particularly those

sharkbites????



I also wonder how CPVC pipe compares as far as staying intact when

freezing? CPVC is even easierr to install than PEX, and while the pice

prices are about the same, the fittings for the CPVC are much cheaper.



I do agree, copper pipe is probably the worst for durability when it

freezes. Even the old galvanized steel held up better.

CPVC is easily damaged by freezing.....

Sharkbites are heavy brass casting so they are likely pretty freeze tolerant.....