I rented a car this weekend. The tire pressure indicator came on. At my
next stop I checked the tires and it turned out to be that the left front
tire was low. I filled it up and decided to check the spare to make sure it
was full of air just in case I needed it. When I opened the trunk, I
initially thought that the spare was a full size spare, because it sure
wasn't a donut.

After closer inspection I noticed that the tires on the car were
Bridgestones, 205/55-16, while the spare was a Pirelli 195/65-15. Under the
numbers it had the words "Standard load" OK, so it's not quite a full size
spare when compared to the tires on the car, but at least it's a real tire.
Then I noticed that the rim had the familiar "donut labels" on it. Limited
Use, Do Not Exceed 50 MPH, etc.

So what's the deal? Why would a full size tire, even if it was slightly
smaller than the original tires, have the Limited Use, reduced speed labels
on it? Granted, the smaller tire might make the handling a little weird.
Could that be the reason they label the spare as "limited use", etc?

On 12/29/2013 05:24 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I rented a car this weekend. The tire pressure indicator came on. At my
next stop I checked the tires and it turned out to be that the left front
tire was low. I filled it up and decided to check the spare to make sure it
was full of air just in case I needed it. When I opened the trunk, I
initially thought that the spare was a full size spare, because it sure
wasn't a donut.

After closer inspection I noticed that the tires on the car were
Bridgestones, 205/55-16, while the spare was a Pirelli 195/65-15. Under the
numbers it had the words "Standard load" OK, so it's not quite a full size
spare when compared to the tires on the car, but at least it's a real tire.
Then I noticed that the rim had the familiar "donut labels" on it. Limited
Use, Do Not Exceed 50 MPH, etc.

So what's the deal? Why would a full size tire, even if it was slightly
smaller than the original tires, have the Limited Use, reduced speed labels
on it? Granted, the smaller tire might make the handling a little weird.
Could that be the reason they label the spare as "limited use", etc?




My concern would be the hub.

Will the hub even fit on the car?

If so, then the 15" tire would certainly be better than one of those
mini-spares...but of course it would not be for long term use as it is
the wrong size for the car.

philo wrote:
On 12/29/2013 05:24 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I rented a car this weekend. The tire pressure indicator came on. At my
next stop I checked the tires and it turned out to be that the left front
tire was low. I filled it up and decided to check the spare to make sure it
was full of air just in case I needed it. When I opened the trunk, I
initially thought that the spare was a full size spare, because it sure
wasn't a donut.

After closer inspection I noticed that the tires on the car were
Bridgestones, 205/55-16, while the spare was a Pirelli 195/65-15. Under the
numbers it had the words "Standard load" OK, so it's not quite a full size
spare when compared to the tires on the car, but at least it's a real tire.
Then I noticed that the rim had the familiar "donut labels" on it. Limited
Use, Do Not Exceed 50 MPH, etc.

So what's the deal? Why would a full size tire, even if it was slightly
smaller than the original tires, have the Limited Use, reduced speed labels
on it? Granted, the smaller tire might make the handling a little weird.
Could that be the reason they label the spare as "limited use", etc?




My concern would be the hub.

Will the hub even fit on the car?

If so, then the 15" tire would certainly be better than one of those
mini-spares...but of course it would not be for long term use as it is
the wrong size for the car.

Why wouldn't the hub fit? Are you speculating that the spare that came with
the rental car is unusable?

On 12/29/2013 05:54 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:




My concern would be the hub.

Will the hub even fit on the car?

If so, then the 15" tire would certainly be better than one of those
mini-spares...but of course it would not be for long term use as it is
the wrong size for the car.

Why wouldn't the hub fit? Are you speculating that the spare that came with
the rental car is unusable?



If the spare was a factory original, I'm sure it's OK.

If it's something the rental agency just threw in there, I'd compare the
hub size.

On 12/29/13, 3:24 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I rented a car this weekend. The tire pressure indicator came on. At my
next stop I checked the tires and it turned out to be that the left front
tire was low. I filled it up and decided to check the spare to make sure it
was full of air just in case I needed it. When I opened the trunk, I
initially thought that the spare was a full size spare, because it sure
wasn't a donut.

After closer inspection I noticed that the tires on the car were
Bridgestones, 205/55-16, while the spare was a Pirelli 195/65-15. Under the
numbers it had the words "Standard load" OK, so it's not quite a full size
spare when compared to the tires on the car, but at least it's a real tire.
Then I noticed that the rim had the familiar "donut labels" on it. Limited
Use, Do Not Exceed 50 MPH, etc.

So what's the deal? Why would a full size tire, even if it was slightly
smaller than the original tires, have the Limited Use, reduced speed labels
on it? Granted, the smaller tire might make the handling a little weird.
Could that be the reason they label the spare as "limited use", etc?


I 'heard' manufactures finally realized compact spares were impacting
sales... decided they wanted something that at a quick glance in the
showroom looks like a full size spare, but still cheaper & lighter than
providing an actual 'real' tire/wheel assembly. A compromise...

Anti lock brakes, traction control and some other stuff also don't play
well with compact spares.

More he

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spare_tire

An (unreliable) acquaintance said he'd herd at least one mfg is about
to, or maybe already is selling cars sans spare altogether. Don't know
which one/s, and it may in fact not be factual.

Erik

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 17:10:48 -0800, Erik wrote:

On 12/29/13, 3:24 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I rented a car this weekend. The tire pressure indicator came on. At my
next stop I checked the tires and it turned out to be that the left front
tire was low. I filled it up and decided to check the spare to make sure it
was full of air just in case I needed it. When I opened the trunk, I
initially thought that the spare was a full size spare, because it sure
wasn't a donut.

After closer inspection I noticed that the tires on the car were
Bridgestones, 205/55-16, while the spare was a Pirelli 195/65-15. Under the
numbers it had the words "Standard load" OK, so it's not quite a full size
spare when compared to the tires on the car, but at least it's a real tire.
Then I noticed that the rim had the familiar "donut labels" on it. Limited
Use, Do Not Exceed 50 MPH, etc.

So what's the deal? Why would a full size tire, even if it was slightly
smaller than the original tires, have the Limited Use, reduced speed labels
on it? Granted, the smaller tire might make the handling a little weird.
Could that be the reason they label the spare as "limited use", etc?

My last truck had a "full size" spare but it wasn't the same size as
the other tires (15" vs. 16"). It was a real wheel but couldn't be
rotated with the other tires.

I 'heard' manufactures finally realized compact spares were impacting
sales... decided they wanted something that at a quick glance in the
showroom looks like a full size spare, but still cheaper & lighter than
providing an actual 'real' tire/wheel assembly. A compromise...

Anti lock brakes, traction control and some other stuff also don't play
well with compact spares.

More he

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spare_tire

An (unreliable) acquaintance said he'd herd at least one mfg is about
to, or maybe already is selling cars sans spare altogether. Don't know
which one/s, and it may in fact not be factual.

Wouldn't surprise me. I don't remember the last time I used the
spare. I think it was on my '78 Granada (in perhaps '84). The spare
on my last truck never left its mount. It couldn't have, for the last
eight years, or more. The whole assembly was rusted into one big
glop. It would have had to have been torched out.

"Erik" wrote in message ...

On 12/29/13, 3:24 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I rented a car this weekend. The tire pressure indicator came on. At my
next stop I checked the tires and it turned out to be that the left front
tire was low. I filled it up and decided to check the spare to make sure
it
was full of air just in case I needed it. When I opened the trunk, I
initially thought that the spare was a full size spare, because it sure
wasn't a donut.

After closer inspection I noticed that the tires on the car were
Bridgestones, 205/55-16, while the spare was a Pirelli 195/65-15. Under
the
numbers it had the words "Standard load" OK, so it's not quite a full size
spare when compared to the tires on the car, but at least it's a real
tire.
Then I noticed that the rim had the familiar "donut labels" on it. Limited
Use, Do Not Exceed 50 MPH, etc.

So what's the deal? Why would a full size tire, even if it was slightly
smaller than the original tires, have the Limited Use, reduced speed
labels
on it? Granted, the smaller tire might make the handling a little weird.
Could that be the reason they label the spare as "limited use", etc?


I 'heard' manufactures finally realized compact spares were impacting
sales... decided they wanted something that at a quick glance in the
showroom looks like a full size spare, but still cheaper & lighter than
providing an actual 'real' tire/wheel assembly. A compromise...

Anti lock brakes, traction control and some other stuff also don't play
well with compact spares.

More he

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spare_tire

An (unreliable) acquaintance said he'd herd at least one mfg is about
to, or maybe already is selling cars sans spare altogether. Don't know
which one/s, and it may in fact not be factual.

Erik


A friend bought a Toyota (minivan?) I do not recall what it is called. Had
"run flat tires" on it and no spare came with it. WW

On 12/29/13, 8:10 PM, Erik wrote:
On 12/29/13, 3:24 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I rented a car this weekend. The tire pressure indicator came on. At my
next stop I checked the tires and it turned out to be that the left
front
tire was low. I filled it up and decided to check the spare to make
sure it
was full of air just in case I needed it. When I opened the trunk, I
initially thought that the spare was a full size spare, because it sure
wasn't a donut.

After closer inspection I noticed that the tires on the car were
Bridgestones, 205/55-16, while the spare was a Pirelli 195/65-15.
Under the
numbers it had the words "Standard load" OK, so it's not quite a
full size
spare when compared to the tires on the car, but at least it's a
real tire.
Then I noticed that the rim had the familiar "donut labels" on it.
Limited
Use, Do Not Exceed 50 MPH, etc.

So what's the deal? Why would a full size tire, even if it was slightly
smaller than the original tires, have the Limited Use, reduced speed
labels
on it? Granted, the smaller tire might make the handling a little
weird.
Could that be the reason they label the spare as "limited use", etc?


I 'heard' manufactures finally realized compact spares were impacting
sales... decided they wanted something that at a quick glance in the
showroom looks like a full size spare, but still cheaper & lighter
than providing an actual 'real' tire/wheel assembly. A compromise...

Anti lock brakes, traction control and some other stuff also don't
play well with compact spares.

More he

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spare_tire

An (unreliable) acquaintance said he'd herd at least one mfg is about
to, or maybe already is selling cars sans spare altogether. Don't know
which one/s, and it may in fact not be factual.

Erik

Newer Volvos with larger (18"+) factory tires definitely do not have
spare tires. They come with kit of a pump & sealant. Basically a fancy
Fix-A-Flat kit. Even the donut spares of that size do not fit in the
trunk storage well. IIRC Jaguars also do this.

Read this article from Edmunds
http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/th...pare-tire.html
where they say
"Edmunds has only been tracking the use of repair kits since 2009, but
the list of cars with no spare tire is growing. According to
Edmunds.com data, 47 more models now have repair kits. That's a 204
percent increase in cars that use them as a spare tire substitute.
Repair kits are standard in 21 percent of the current vehicles
available and outnumber the cars that come with run-flat tires."

On 12/30/2013 8:55 AM, Retired wrote:

Read this article from Edmunds
http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/th...pare-tire.html
where they say
"Edmunds has only been tracking the use of repair kits since 2009, but
the list of cars with no spare tire is growing. According to Edmunds.com
data, 47 more models now have repair kits. That's a 204 percent increase
in cars that use them as a spare tire substitute. Repair kits are
standard in 21 percent of the current vehicles available and outnumber
the cars that come with run-flat tires."

The vehicles I've had for the last few years, tire
problems are a real concern. They go flat, and one
time I had the lugs loosen and cause trouble a
couple days after doing some brake work. I'd sure
prefer to have a full size spare if possible.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

DerbyDad03 wrote:

So what's the deal? Why would a full size tire, even if it was
slightly smaller than the original tires, have the Limited Use,
reduced speed labels on it? Granted, the smaller tire might make the
handling a little weird. Could that be the reason they label the
spare as "limited use", etc?

Since it's not the same exact rating as the OEM tires it will not
perform the same way. The warning is to cover their own ass in case
you lose control of the car by going too fast.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

I rented a car this weekend. . . .
After closer inspection I noticed that the tires on the car were
Bridgestones, 205/55-16, while the spare was a Pirelli 195/65-15. Under
the
numbers it had the words "Standard load" OK, so it's not quite a full size
spare when compared to the tires on the car, but at least it's a real
tire.
Then I noticed that the rim had the familiar "donut labels" on it. Limited
Use, Do Not Exceed 50 MPH, etc.

So what's the deal?

What did the rental agency say when you asked?

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

"Don Phillipson" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

I rented a car this weekend. . . .
After closer inspection I noticed that the tires on the car were
Bridgestones, 205/55-16, while the spare was a Pirelli 195/65-15. Under
the
numbers it had the words "Standard load" OK, so it's not quite a full size
spare when compared to the tires on the car, but at least it's a real
tire.
Then I noticed that the rim had the familiar "donut labels" on it. Limited
Use, Do Not Exceed 50 MPH, etc.

So what's the deal?

What did the rental agency say when you asked?


They were closed when I returned the vehicle, so I didn't ask them. I left
a note for them to call me about the "inconvenience" of having to top off
the tire (twice). I'm hoping they'll credit me for some amount, although
they already gave me a pretty good deal - a one day rental credit if I paid
for the insurance coverage, which was less than the one day rental. In
other words, I got the coverage but still paid less than I would have if I
had declined the coverage and paid the full rental cost. I'm assuming they
make more money on the insurance than the rental, so we all made out on the
deal.

Anyway, when they call me, I"ll ask about the spare. Of course, I'm sure I
can already tell you what he'll say. "If the spare says stay under 50, then
I recommend you stay under 50.€œ What else could he say? It's not like he's
going to tell me to ignore the warning and drive at whatever speed I want.

I've changed one tire since 1986 (it may be longer than that).

I think the advantage of a spare tire is overrated.

YMMV, if you drive a lot of miles over bad roads.

On 12/29/2013 11:51 PM, WW wrote:

An (unreliable) acquaintance said he'd herd at least one mfg is about
to, or maybe already is selling cars sans spare altogether. Don't know
which one/s, and it may in fact not be factual.

Erik


A friend bought a Toyota (minivan?) I do not recall what it is called.
Had "run flat tires" on it and no spare came with it. WW

Many cars have no spare. Chevy Cruz and possibly others, Hyundai Accent
and probably others. They have a kit with fix a flat type stuff to
get you going.

Can't recall the last time I used the spare, but I'd feel more secure on
a long trip having one. Around my normal works, shopping, not so much.

TimR wrote:
I've changed one tire since 1986 (it may be longer than that).

I think the advantage of a spare tire is overrated.

YMMV, if you drive a lot of miles over bad roads.

I've lost track of how many tires I've changed just in the past year.

On my daughter's car alone I've had the spare on at least 6 times since we
bought the car (used) in April.

In the first month, 3 of the 4 tires went low because of the aluminum
wheels. I'd throw the spare on, drop the low tire off at a local shop, have
them clean the wheel and fill it up. Over the summer she ran over a nail
and a screw with a week of each other. She doesn't drive any place "bad" -
just normal roads and parking lots. She works at a YMCA, so it's not like
she parking in industrial areas with trucks, construction vehicles, etc.

We bought her new tires for winter and she hit a pothole within the first
week, damaging a sidewall. It was covered under the road hazard warranty,
so I threw the spare on, drove it over to the shop and they put a new tire
on the rim without making me wait. If I had left it on the car I would have
had to wait my turn until a bay was open.

With a floor jack, my cordless drill and a pipe to use as leverage, I can
put the spare on in under 15 minutes, less than half hour total on and off.
If I leave the tires on the vehicles when they need service, it's hours of
waiting to get into a bay. I don't have that kind of patience.

In article ,
TimR wrote:

I've changed one tire since 1986 (it may be longer than that).


does that mean you had no flats or that you had someone else change the
tire?


I think the advantage of a spare tire is overrated.

YMMV, if you drive a lot of miles over bad roads.

In article ,
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 17:10:48 -0800, Erik wrote:

On 12/29/13, 3:24 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I rented a car this weekend. The tire pressure indicator came on. At my
next stop I checked the tires and it turned out to be that the left front
tire was low. I filled it up and decided to check the spare to make sure it
was full of air just in case I needed it. When I opened the trunk, I
initially thought that the spare was a full size spare, because it sure
wasn't a donut.

After closer inspection I noticed that the tires on the car were
Bridgestones, 205/55-16, while the spare was a Pirelli 195/65-15. Under the
numbers it had the words "Standard load" OK, so it's not quite a full size
spare when compared to the tires on the car, but at least it's a real tire.
Then I noticed that the rim had the familiar "donut labels" on it. Limited
Use, Do Not Exceed 50 MPH, etc.

So what's the deal? Why would a full size tire, even if it was slightly
smaller than the original tires, have the Limited Use, reduced speed labels
on it? Granted, the smaller tire might make the handling a little weird.
Could that be the reason they label the spare as "limited use", etc?

My last truck had a "full size" spare but it wasn't the same size as
the other tires (15" vs. 16"). It was a real wheel but couldn't be
rotated with the other tires.

I 'heard' manufactures finally realized compact spares were impacting
sales... decided they wanted something that at a quick glance in the
showroom looks like a full size spare, but still cheaper & lighter than
providing an actual 'real' tire/wheel assembly. A compromise...

Anti lock brakes, traction control and some other stuff also don't play
well with compact spares.

More he

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spare_tire

An (unreliable) acquaintance said he'd herd at least one mfg is about
to, or maybe already is selling cars sans spare altogether. Don't know
which one/s, and it may in fact not be factual.

Wouldn't surprise me. I don't remember the last time I used the
spare. I think it was on my '78 Granada (in perhaps '84). The spare
on my last truck never left its mount. It couldn't have, for the last
eight years, or more. The whole assembly was rusted into one big
glop. It would have had to have been torched out.

the fundie guide to vehicle maintenance: do nothing, blame others when
it breaks

Retired wrote:
On 12/29/13, 8:10 PM, Erik wrote:
On 12/29/13, 3:24 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I rented a car this weekend. The tire pressure indicator came on. At my
next stop I checked the tires and it turned out to be that the left
front
tire was low. I filled it up and decided to check the spare to make
sure it
was full of air just in case I needed it. When I opened the trunk, I
initially thought that the spare was a full size spare, because it sure
wasn't a donut.

After closer inspection I noticed that the tires on the car were
Bridgestones, 205/55-16, while the spare was a Pirelli 195/65-15.
Under the
numbers it had the words "Standard load" OK, so it's not quite a
full size
spare when compared to the tires on the car, but at least it's a
real tire.
Then I noticed that the rim had the familiar "donut labels" on it.
Limited
Use, Do Not Exceed 50 MPH, etc.

So what's the deal? Why would a full size tire, even if it was slightly
smaller than the original tires, have the Limited Use, reduced speed
labels
on it? Granted, the smaller tire might make the handling a little
weird.
Could that be the reason they label the spare as "limited use", etc?


I 'heard' manufactures finally realized compact spares were impacting
sales... decided they wanted something that at a quick glance in the
showroom looks like a full size spare, but still cheaper & lighter
than providing an actual 'real' tire/wheel assembly. A compromise...

Anti lock brakes, traction control and some other stuff also don't
play well with compact spares.

More he

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spare_tire

An (unreliable) acquaintance said he'd herd at least one mfg is about
to, or maybe already is selling cars sans spare altogether. Don't know
which one/s, and it may in fact not be factual.

Erik

Newer Volvos with larger (18"+) factory tires definitely do not have
spare tires. They come with kit of a pump & sealant. Basically a fancy
Fix-A-Flat kit. Even the donut spares of that size do not fit in the
trunk storage well. IIRC Jaguars also do this.


I met up with my brother on the road trip that I rented the car for. When
the tire went low he lent me the portable air compressor he carries. It's
just like the kit you described. You can use it to top off a tire with air,
or you can hook up a different hose and put the included "slime" in the
tire if it's flat.

His van has a spare, but he carries the kit just in case. All he's ever
needed was the pump, but he's got the sealant if need be.

Regarding the "trunk storage", the donut for my Odyssey is stored inside
the vehicle, under the floor mat behind the front seats. I've had vans
where the spare hangs from the bottom the vehicle on a cable. That just
sucks.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 12/30/2013 8:55 AM, Retired wrote:

Read this article from Edmunds
http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/th...pare-tire.html
where they say
"Edmunds has only been tracking the use of repair kits since 2009, but
the list of cars with no spare tire is growing. According to Edmunds.com
data, 47 more models now have repair kits. That's a 204 percent increase
in cars that use them as a spare tire substitute. Repair kits are
standard in 21 percent of the current vehicles available and outnumber
the cars that come with run-flat tires."

The vehicles I've had for the last few years, tire
problems are a real concern. They go flat, and one
time I had the lugs loosen and cause trouble a
couple days after doing some brake work. I'd sure
prefer to have a full size spare if possible.


Who did the brake work? Lug nuts don't typically "loosen" on their own. It
usually starts with a incorrect tightening procedure, such as not enough
torque or not using the "crisscross" tightening pattern.

What "trouble" did the loose lugs cause that would have made a full size
spare desirable?

On Mon, 30 Dec 2013 11:28:13 -0800, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
TimR wrote:

I've changed one tire since 1986 (it may be longer than that).


does that mean you had no flats or that you had someone else change the
tire?


I think the advantage of a spare tire is overrated.

YMMV, if you drive a lot of miles over bad roads.

It was 1987 when I last changed a tire. But my wife called Saturday
evening that a tire was flat when shopping with my son.
Spare was flat too, even though it was checked in the spring.
Son bought a foot pump and left it in the trunk.
Went to nearby Midas and had the tire plugged. Picked up a nail.
I don't tolerate old tires or leakers. When one loses pressure I take
it to the shop and have it remounted.
I replace them with new tire every few years too.
But then you have the luck factor. Can't see the nail/screw you pick
up.

On Mon, 30 Dec 2013 19:26:00 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:



We bought her new tires for winter and she hit a pothole within the first
week, damaging a sidewall. It was covered under the road hazard warranty,
so I threw the spare on, drove it over to the shop and they put a new tire
on the rim without making me wait. If I had left it on the car I would have
had to wait my turn until a bay was open.

With a floor jack, my cordless drill and a pipe to use as leverage, I can
put the spare on in under 15 minutes, less than half hour total on and off.
If I leave the tires on the vehicles when they need service, it's hours of
waiting to get into a bay. I don't have that kind of patience.

Whatever works for you. I call first and if I'm told there's going to
be a wait I have the come along in the second car, and just drop off
the car getting the work done. Call me when it's done.
But there's a Just Tires less than a mile away.

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 23:24:21 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I rented a car this weekend. The tire pressure indicator came on. At my
next stop I checked the tires and it turned out to be that the left front
tire was low. I filled it up and decided to check the spare to make sure it
was full of air just in case I needed it. When I opened the trunk, I
initially thought that the spare was a full size spare, because it sure
wasn't a donut.

After closer inspection I noticed that the tires on the car were
Bridgestones, 205/55-16, while the spare was a Pirelli 195/65-15. Under the
numbers it had the words "Standard load" OK, so it's not quite a full size
spare when compared to the tires on the car, but at least it's a real tire.
Then I noticed that the rim had the familiar "donut labels" on it. Limited
Use, Do Not Exceed 50 MPH, etc.

So what's the deal? Why would a full size tire, even if it was slightly
smaller than the original tires, have the Limited Use, reduced speed labels
on it? Granted, the smaller tire might make the handling a little weird.
Could that be the reason they label the spare as "limited use", etc?

How do you know it's a "real tire"? Sure, it may be 'standard load'
but does it really have the same amount of "carcass", tread plies,
sidewall plies, same amount of tread depth, same tread compound, etc.
It's pretty close in size but about 0.1" different in diameter. And
at what inflation pressure did it have "standard load"? Same pressure
as the other tires or did it need to be pumped up to 60psi like the
donut spares needed to be?

My guess is it's not a "real tire" but was specifically built as a
temporary, limited duty, spare with all that implies.

Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 30 Dec 2013 19:26:00 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:



We bought her new tires for winter and she hit a pothole within the first
week, damaging a sidewall. It was covered under the road hazard warranty,
so I threw the spare on, drove it over to the shop and they put a new tire
on the rim without making me wait. If I had left it on the car I would have
had to wait my turn until a bay was open.

With a floor jack, my cordless drill and a pipe to use as leverage, I can
put the spare on in under 15 minutes, less than half hour total on and off.
If I leave the tires on the vehicles when they need service, it's hours of
waiting to get into a bay. I don't have that kind of patience.

Whatever works for you. I call first and if I'm told there's going to
be a wait I have the come along in the second car, and just drop off
the car getting the work done. Call me when it's done.
But there's a Just Tires less than a mile away.

That's what we do if one of our vehicle needs work that requires the
vehicle to be left at the shop. With three vehicles and three drivers
working, doing without one vehicle for a day - especially just for a tire -
is a pretty big inconvenience. I'd rather throw the spare on and drive than
arrange transportation, etc.

Like you said, whatever works.

DerbyDad03 posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP

I rented a car this weekend


Sorta answers the question doesn't it? Not trying
to be a smart guy here but it's what they had...

Why do they put 50 cent jacks in cars? Because
they ran out of 25 cent ones.

--
Tekkie

In article ,
DerbyDad03 wrote:
...snipped...

I've lost track of how many tires I've changed just in the past year.

On my daughter's car alone I've had the spare on at least 6 times since we
bought the car (used) in April.

...rest of story snipped...

When my daughter got her driver's license I taught her how to change
a tire. You may want to consider doing the same...

--
There is always an easy solution to every human problem -- neat,
plausible, and wrong." (H L Mencken)

Larry W. - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 23:24:21 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I rented a car this weekend. The tire pressure indicator came on. At my
next stop I checked the tires and it turned out to be that the left front
tire was low. I filled it up and decided to check the spare to make sure it
was full of air just in case I needed it. When I opened the trunk, I
initially thought that the spare was a full size spare, because it sure
wasn't a donut.

After closer inspection I noticed that the tires on the car were
Bridgestones, 205/55-16, while the spare was a Pirelli 195/65-15. Under the
numbers it had the words "Standard load" OK, so it's not quite a full size
spare when compared to the tires on the car, but at least it's a real tire.
Then I noticed that the rim had the familiar "donut labels" on it. Limited
Use, Do Not Exceed 50 MPH, etc.

So what's the deal? Why would a full size tire, even if it was slightly
smaller than the original tires, have the Limited Use, reduced speed labels
on it? Granted, the smaller tire might make the handling a little weird.
Could that be the reason they label the spare as "limited use", etc?

How do you know it's a "real tire"? Sure, it may be 'standard load'
but does it really have the same amount of "carcass", tread plies,
sidewall plies, same amount of tread depth, same tread compound, etc.
It's pretty close in size but about 0.1" different in diameter. And
at what inflation pressure did it have "standard load"? Same pressure
as the other tires or did it need to be pumped up to 60psi like the
donut spares needed to be?

My guess is it's not a "real tire" but was specifically built as a
temporary, limited duty, spare with all that implies.

I called a local VW dealer. Spoke to a service rep. He said that they have
also wondered why they mark the spare as 50 MPH only. He said they have
never gotten a clear answer from anyone. He said it's a real tire on a real
wheel, so there is no reason that he can think of that it should be marked
as limited use.

However, here's an additional oddity: He was surprised that the rental had
a different sized spare tire than the 4 on the car. He said that typically
the spare is the same tire as the ones on the car, yet still marked as
limited use. So, I did a little research. The Bridgestone 205/55-16 came
standard on the VW Jetta SE, while the 195/65-15 were standard on the Jetta
S. Why the SE I rented had a spare from an S is beyond me.

There's another dealer I can call tomorrow. I'll let you know what they say
about the markings on the spare.

Larry W wrote:
In article ,
DerbyDad03 wrote:
...snipped...

I've lost track of how many tires I've changed just in the past year.

On my daughter's car alone I've had the spare on at least 6 times since we
bought the car (used) in April.

...rest of story snipped...

When my daughter got her driver's license I taught her how to change
a tire. You may want to consider doing the same...


She knows how to change a tire. She actually changed it a couple of the 6
times. I don't mind doing it, but I know she can do it if she has to. Of
course, she also has AAA so while I wouldn't expect her to be changing a
tire on the side of the highway, I know that she could if she had to.

On Mon, 30 Dec 2013 08:55:02 -0500, Retired wrote:

On 12/29/13, 8:10 PM, Erik wrote:
On 12/29/13, 3:24 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I rented a car this weekend. The tire pressure indicator came on. At my
next stop I checked the tires and it turned out to be that the left
front
tire was low. I filled it up and decided to check the spare to make
sure it
was full of air just in case I needed it. When I opened the trunk, I
initially thought that the spare was a full size spare, because it sure
wasn't a donut.

After closer inspection I noticed that the tires on the car were
Bridgestones, 205/55-16, while the spare was a Pirelli 195/65-15.
Under the
numbers it had the words "Standard load" OK, so it's not quite a
full size
spare when compared to the tires on the car, but at least it's a
real tire.
Then I noticed that the rim had the familiar "donut labels" on it.
Limited
Use, Do Not Exceed 50 MPH, etc.

So what's the deal? Why would a full size tire, even if it was slightly
smaller than the original tires, have the Limited Use, reduced speed
labels
on it? Granted, the smaller tire might make the handling a little
weird.
Could that be the reason they label the spare as "limited use", etc?


I 'heard' manufactures finally realized compact spares were impacting
sales... decided they wanted something that at a quick glance in the
showroom looks like a full size spare, but still cheaper & lighter
than providing an actual 'real' tire/wheel assembly. A compromise...

Anti lock brakes, traction control and some other stuff also don't
play well with compact spares.

More he

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spare_tire

An (unreliable) acquaintance said he'd herd at least one mfg is about
to, or maybe already is selling cars sans spare altogether. Don't know
which one/s, and it may in fact not be factual.

Erik

Newer Volvos with larger (18"+) factory tires definitely do not have
spare tires. They come with kit of a pump & sealant. Basically a fancy
Fix-A-Flat kit. Even the donut spares of that size do not fit in the
trunk storage well. IIRC Jaguars also do this.

Read this article from Edmunds
http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/th...pare-tire.html
where they say
"Edmunds has only been tracking the use of repair kits since 2009, but
the list of cars with no spare tire is growing. According to
Edmunds.com data, 47 more models now have repair kits. That's a 204
percent increase in cars that use them as a spare tire substitute.
Repair kits are standard in 21 percent of the current vehicles
available and outnumber the cars that come with run-flat tires."
A "repair kit" is useless if you damage a tire by hitting something
on the road, if you damage a sidewall or cut the tire, or damage the
rim, or don't get stopped before the tire carcase is damaged. Also
useless if a valve stem is damaged ( 3 of the last 4 flat's I've had
would have been more than a match for a "repair kit" - and the other I
repaired on the car with a plug.

On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 00:30:58 +0000 (UTC),
(Larry W) wrote:

In article ,
DerbyDad03 wrote:
...snipped...

I've lost track of how many tires I've changed just in the past year.

On my daughter's car alone I've had the spare on at least 6 times since we
bought the car (used) in April.

...rest of story snipped...

When my daughter got her driver's license I taught her how to change
a tire. You may want to consider doing the same...
For years my youngest daughter changed her own seasonal tires. I was
usually around in case she had trouble. Now she's got a truck
mechanic for a boyfriend, and he comes over and changes them, and even
gets mine out of the attic of the shed for me, and helps put the
takeoffs back up.

On Mon, 30 Dec 2013 11:30:22 -0800, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 17:10:48 -0800, Erik wrote:

On 12/29/13, 3:24 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I rented a car this weekend. The tire pressure indicator came on. At my
next stop I checked the tires and it turned out to be that the left front
tire was low. I filled it up and decided to check the spare to make sure it
was full of air just in case I needed it. When I opened the trunk, I
initially thought that the spare was a full size spare, because it sure
wasn't a donut.

After closer inspection I noticed that the tires on the car were
Bridgestones, 205/55-16, while the spare was a Pirelli 195/65-15. Under the
numbers it had the words "Standard load" OK, so it's not quite a full size
spare when compared to the tires on the car, but at least it's a real tire.
Then I noticed that the rim had the familiar "donut labels" on it. Limited
Use, Do Not Exceed 50 MPH, etc.

So what's the deal? Why would a full size tire, even if it was slightly
smaller than the original tires, have the Limited Use, reduced speed labels
on it? Granted, the smaller tire might make the handling a little weird.
Could that be the reason they label the spare as "limited use", etc?

My last truck had a "full size" spare but it wasn't the same size as
the other tires (15" vs. 16"). It was a real wheel but couldn't be
rotated with the other tires.

I 'heard' manufactures finally realized compact spares were impacting
sales... decided they wanted something that at a quick glance in the
showroom looks like a full size spare, but still cheaper & lighter than
providing an actual 'real' tire/wheel assembly. A compromise...

Anti lock brakes, traction control and some other stuff also don't play
well with compact spares.

More he

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spare_tire

An (unreliable) acquaintance said he'd herd at least one mfg is about
to, or maybe already is selling cars sans spare altogether. Don't know
which one/s, and it may in fact not be factual.

Wouldn't surprise me. I don't remember the last time I used the
spare. I think it was on my '78 Granada (in perhaps '84). The spare
on my last truck never left its mount. It couldn't have, for the last
eight years, or more. The whole assembly was rusted into one big
glop. It would have had to have been torched out.

the fundie guide to vehicle maintenance: do nothing, blame others when
it breaks

You don't need to lie, Malformed, when you could just as easily shut
up. You've demonstrated, time and time again, that those are the only
choices a lefty has.

On 12/30/2013 8:05 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 12/30/2013 8:55 AM, Retired wrote:

Read this article from Edmunds
http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/th...pare-tire.html
where they say
"Edmunds has only been tracking the use of repair kits since 2009, but
the list of cars with no spare tire is growing. According to Edmunds.com
data, 47 more models now have repair kits. That's a 204 percent increase
in cars that use them as a spare tire substitute. Repair kits are
standard in 21 percent of the current vehicles available and outnumber
the cars that come with run-flat tires."

The vehicles I've had for the last few years, tire
problems are a real concern. They go flat, and one
time I had the lugs loosen and cause trouble a
couple days after doing some brake work. I'd sure
prefer to have a full size spare if possible.


Buy one and quit yer bitchen. :-)

On 12/30/2013 1:26 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
TimR wrote:

With a floor jack, my cordless drill and a pipe to use as leverage, I can
put the spare on in under 15 minutes, less than half hour total on and off.
If I leave the tires on the vehicles when they need service, it's hours of
waiting to get into a bay. I don't have that kind of patience.


I used to average about 3 tire changes a month when I towed stuff all
over the south. Mostly trailor tires, but the cordless and floor jack
made my average roadside stop less than 10 minutes. My wish list does
have a cordless impact on it, but I don't have such a need for it
anymore, other than man-toy desire, of course.

Irreverent Maximus wrote:
On 12/30/2013 8:05 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 12/30/2013 8:55 AM, Retired wrote:

Read this article from Edmunds
http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/th...pare-tire.html
where they say
"Edmunds has only been tracking the use of repair kits since 2009, but
the list of cars with no spare tire is growing. According to Edmunds.com
data, 47 more models now have repair kits. That's a 204 percent increase
in cars that use them as a spare tire substitute. Repair kits are
standard in 21 percent of the current vehicles available and outnumber
the cars that come with run-flat tires."

The vehicles I've had for the last few years, tire
problems are a real concern. They go flat, and one
time I had the lugs loosen and cause trouble a
couple days after doing some brake work. I'd sure
prefer to have a full size spare if possible.


Buy one and quit yer bitchen. :-)
Hi,
You know what? When I buy new vehicle one condition is getting a full
size spare tire on a matching rim. The dealer has to include it on a
deal. Up front I tell them that is what I want/need
on my new car.

On 12/31/2013 1:06 AM, Irreverent Maximus wrote:

I used to average about 3 tire changes a month when I towed stuff all
over the south. Mostly trailor tires, but the cordless and floor jack
made my average roadside stop less than 10 minutes. My wish list does
have a cordless impact on it, but I don't have such a need for it
anymore, other than man-toy desire, of course.




Buy one and quit yer bitchen. :-)

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 12/31/2013 1:17 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Hi,
You know what? When I buy new vehicle one condition is getting a full
size spare tire on a matching rim. The dealer has to include it on a
deal. Up front I tell them that is what I want/need
on my new car.

I also require a key operated lock on the
passenger side door.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 12/31/2013 12:17 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:


Buy one and quit yer bitchen. :-)
Hi,
You know what? When I buy new vehicle one condition is getting a full
size spare tire on a matching rim. The dealer has to include it on a
deal. Up front I tell them that is what I want/need
on my new car.

I hope that includes an acceptable mounting device/storage area. :-)

Tony Hwang wrote:
Irreverent Maximus wrote:
On 12/30/2013 8:05 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 12/30/2013 8:55 AM, Retired wrote:

Read this article from Edmunds
http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/th...pare-tire.html
where they say
"Edmunds has only been tracking the use of repair kits since 2009, but
the list of cars with no spare tire is growing. According to Edmunds.com
data, 47 more models now have repair kits. That's a 204 percent increase
in cars that use them as a spare tire substitute. Repair kits are
standard in 21 percent of the current vehicles available and outnumber
the cars that come with run-flat tires."

The vehicles I've had for the last few years, tire
problems are a real concern. They go flat, and one
time I had the lugs loosen and cause trouble a
couple days after doing some brake work. I'd sure
prefer to have a full size spare if possible.


Buy one and quit yer bitchen. :-)
Hi,
You know what? When I buy new vehicle one condition is getting a full
size spare tire on a matching rim. The dealer has to include it on a
deal. Up front I tell them that is what I want/need
on my new car.

Doesn't that limit your choices of vehicles? Many vehicles do not have room
to store a full size spare. Or do you give up the room required to store it
outside of the built-in storage location?

On Monday, December 30, 2013 7:30:58 PM UTC-5, Larry W wrote:
When my daughter got her driver's license I taught her how to change

a tire. You may want to consider doing the same...

I've taught my daughters just in case. But when the shop puts on the lugnuts with an air wrench, it's usually impossible for them to break them loose, and often for me. One time we couldn't get them off jumping on a cheater bar.

I guess there's supposed to be a torque setting on those things but it must be routinely ignored.

Question: do you guys put the bolts/nuts (depending on the car) on dry with the recommended torque? Or do you lube them and reduce the torque? I normally never put a fastener on dry, but I've been unsure about wheels.

On 12/31/2013 8:19 AM, TimR wrote:

I've taught my daughters just in case. But when the shop
puts on the lugnuts with an air wrench, it's usually
impossible for them to break them loose, and often for
me. One time we couldn't get them off jumping on a
cheater bar.

I guess there's supposed to be a torque setting on
those things but it must be routinely ignored.

Question: do you guys put the bolts/nuts (depending
on the car) on dry with the recommended torque? Or do
you lube them and reduce the torque? I normally never
put a fastener on dry, but I've been unsure about wheels.


This has as much heated opinion and toilet paper over the
top or under the bottom. My opinion is to lube the threads
and mating cone point with grease or Never-Sieze. Torque
with clicker torque wrench, and recheck the next day and
the second day. Others will quote Aristotle, Mack, Ford,
or just tell me that I'm mistaken.

I've had a wheel fall off twice. Once when it started to
rain the day I was working. I slipped the lugs on finger
tight, and neglected to torque them. This was about 1980
model Chevette, with steel rims.

Second time was a 98 Blazer with aluminum rims. I put the
lugs on with torque wrench but didn't recheck the next day
and on day two. The lugs were under snap cap, and I didn't
see that they were loose. I thought I had a backwards radial
on the other corner, and didn't visually or wrench check the
one that was loosening.

Both of those were my neglect, and I take responsibility.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 12/31/2013 8:19 AM, TimR wrote:

I've taught my daughters just in case. But when the shop
puts on the lugnuts with an air wrench, it's usually
impossible for them to break them loose, and often for
me. One time we couldn't get them off jumping on a
cheater bar.

I guess there's supposed to be a torque setting on
those things but it must be routinely ignored.

Question: do you guys put the bolts/nuts (depending
on the car) on dry with the recommended torque? Or do
you lube them and reduce the torque? I normally never
put a fastener on dry, but I've been unsure about wheels.


This has as much heated opinion and toilet paper over the
top or under the bottom. My opinion is to lube the threads
and mating cone point with grease or Never-Sieze. Torque
with clicker torque wrench, and recheck the next day and
the second day. Others will quote Aristotle, Mack, Ford,
or just tell me that I'm mistaken.

I've had a wheel fall off twice. Once when it started to
rain the day I was working. I slipped the lugs on finger
tight, and neglected to torque them. This was about 1980
model Chevette, with steel rims.

Second time was a 98 Blazer with aluminum rims. I put the
lugs on with torque wrench but didn't recheck the next day
and on day two. The lugs were under snap cap, and I didn't
see that they were loose. I thought I had a backwards radial
on the other corner, and didn't visually or wrench check the
one that was loosening.

Both of those were my neglect, and I take responsibility.

The only time I've had a wheel loosen up is when a service center put the
wrong wheels on my vehicle.

I had my dead Subaru towed to a service station late on a Saturday night. I
didn't make an appointment because they were closed until Monday. I had
used the service station before and since my car was dead, I decided to
have it towed there with the plan to call them Monday morning. I told the
tow truck driver to put the car behind the station, pointed towards the
service bay door so that they could push it into the shop when they were
ready.

I called them first thing Monday morning and they said they were wondering
what the car was doing behind their shop, balanced on 3 concrete blocks
with no wheels. To this day, I believe the tow truck driver was involved
with the theft of the wheels and brand new tires, but there was obviously
no way I could prove it. He would have been the only one who knew the car
was behind the station, unless someone else went back there looking for
vehicles to mess with.

Anyway, the service station located some used wheels (the wagon wheel
style) and new tires and put them on the vehicle. I picked it up after the
repair was done and proceeded to drive 300 miles to my parent's house for
the holidays. The car felt fine while driving on the highway but when I
slowed for a toll booth, the steering wheel started shimmying. I pulled off
of the road and found that a couple of lugs were loose on the front wheels.
I tightened them up and continued on my way. When I got to my parent's
house, the car felt funny again, so I checked the wheels and found that
_all_ of the lug nuts were loose and some of the studs were stripped.

It turned out that the wheels they put did not fit over the hub correctly.
They were being held onto the car with just the lug nuts, with no support
from the hub. I had to take it to a shop to have a few of the studs
replaced. It took them a few days to locate the correct wheels so I was
stuck without a car and delayed in getting home.

My insurance company covered the original theft of the wheels and the
service station covered the cost of the replacement wheels and stud repairs
after I threatened to report them to any and all groups and authorities I
could think of.