During feezing weather, I like to leave a faucet dripping to reduce the
chances of freezing pipe. However, people including me sometimes forget and
turn off the faucet completely.

Is there a dedicated valve that can be installed under the sink to let a
trickle of water out and directly into the p trap? This way nobody sees the
dripping and cannot accidentally turn it off.

On 11/25/2013 7:22 PM, bob wrote:
During feezing weather, I like to leave a faucet dripping to reduce the
chances of freezing pipe. However, people including me sometimes forget
and turn off the faucet completely.

Is there a dedicated valve that can be installed under the sink to let a
trickle of water out and directly into the p trap? This way nobody sees
the dripping and cannot accidentally turn it off.


How about a piercing valve for like an ice maker.
That gives you a bit of water, and some tubing
you can run here or there.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 16:22:18 -0800, "bob" wrote:

During feezing weather, I like to leave a faucet dripping to reduce the
chances of freezing pipe. However, people including me sometimes forget and
turn off the faucet completely.

Is there a dedicated valve that can be installed under the sink to let a
trickle of water out and directly into the p trap? This way nobody sees the
dripping and cannot accidentally turn it off.

I've never seen an interior sink faucet freeze. What am I missing?!

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 16:57:52 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 16:22:18 -0800, "bob" wrote:

During feezing weather, I like to leave a faucet dripping to reduce the
chances of freezing pipe. However, people including me sometimes forget and
turn off the faucet completely.

Is there a dedicated valve that can be installed under the sink to let a
trickle of water out and directly into the p trap? This way nobody sees the
dripping and cannot accidentally turn it off.

I've never seen an interior sink faucet freeze. What am I missing?!

Not the faucet, rather the pipe that some dummy ran in an uninsulated
exterior wall.

"bob" wrote:
During feezing weather, I like to leave a faucet dripping to reduce the
chances of freezing pipe. However, people including me sometimes forget
and turn off the faucet completely.

Is there a dedicated valve that can be installed under the sink to let a
trickle of water out and directly into the p trap? This way nobody sees
the dripping and cannot accidentally turn it off.

Real tough to tell if you are serious, but I'll play along...

Define "dripping" in terms of enough to prevent freezing.

Why are you concerned with this particular faucet freezing in the first
place?

There's lot of details that you should be sharing.

Oren wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 16:22:18 -0800, "bob" wrote:

During feezing weather, I like to leave a faucet dripping to reduce the
chances of freezing pipe. However, people including me sometimes forget and
turn off the faucet completely.

Is there a dedicated valve that can be installed under the sink to let a
trickle of water out and directly into the p trap? This way nobody sees the
dripping and cannot accidentally turn it off.

I've never seen an interior sink faucet freeze. What am I missing?!

Maybe it's in an outhouse. ;-)

On 11/25/2013 7:57 PM, Oren wrote:
During feezing weather, I like to leave a faucet dripping to reduce the
chances of freezing pipe. However, people including me sometimes forget and
turn off the faucet completely.

I've never seen an interior sink faucet freeze. What am I missing?!


Pipe coming in from under the house freezes. Or under the trailer.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 11/25/2013 8:18 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 16:57:52 -0800, Oren wrote:

I've never seen an interior sink faucet freeze. What am I missing?!

Not the faucet, rather the pipe that some dummy ran in an uninsulated
exterior wall.

I had that happen, one time. Cinder block building,
and it froze in front of a window. I crumpled a
bunch of news paper, stuffed in, and the pipe
didn't freeze again.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 11/25/2013 8:18 PM, wrote:
I've never seen an interior sink faucet freeze. What am I missing?!

Not the faucet, rather the pipe that some dummy ran in an uninsulated
exterior wall.


I got to thaw a frozen pipe one time,
cellar of an old farm house. Froze right
at a window. It was about 7F outside, and
the sash didn't seal well. I put in a couple
zip screws to hold it.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 20:24:24 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 11/25/2013 7:57 PM, Oren wrote:
During feezing weather, I like to leave a faucet dripping to reduce the
chances of freezing pipe. However, people including me sometimes forget and
turn off the faucet completely.

I've never seen an interior sink faucet freeze. What am I missing?!


Pipe coming in from under the house freezes. Or under the trailer.

Does the OP live in a trailer? How can you tell with the limited
information given?

Again. What am I missing?

"bob" wrote in message ...
During feezing weather, I like to leave a faucet dripping to reduce the
chances of freezing pipe. However, people including me sometimes forget and
turn off the faucet completely.

Is there a dedicated valve that can be installed under the sink to let a
trickle of water out and directly into the p trap? This way nobody sees the
dripping and cannot accidentally turn it off.


I really cannot say, but I have heard that the dripping faucet thing does not
work for faucets. I do not remember from where, but I do believe it was a
reputable source. Take that at face value since I cannot confirm or refute
the claim. However, if true, then the same could be true for a P-trap. Without
true experimentation and repetitive results, how could one truly know? Old
wives tales and all, ya know.

Anyway, I have also heard that stuffing a wire coat hanger, with a slight bend and
rounded off tip (via pliers) stuffed down into the trap, and cut off flush with
the strainer basket conducts enough heat to keep things thawed. Once again, I
cannot not confirm this. Though, I do believe I heard about this a long time ago
on the Bill Wattenberg (sp?) show on KGO AM. At least 6 years ago.

Oren,

Leaving a faucet dripping is a common tactic in Northern climes to keep
the water in uninsulated pipes (or poorly insulated) from freezing. when
folks are asleep or away a dripping faucet keeps water circulating through
the pipes. Un circulated, uninsulated water may rapidly lose temperature and
freeze. Dripping faucets bring warmer water into the pipes which retards
freezing.

Dave M.

Nightcrawler® wrote:
"bob" wrote in message
...
During feezing weather, I like to leave a faucet dripping to reduce
the chances of freezing pipe. However, people including me sometimes
forget and turn off the faucet completely.

Is there a dedicated valve that can be installed under the sink to
let a trickle of water out and directly into the p trap? This way
nobody sees the dripping and cannot accidentally turn it off.


I really cannot say, but I have heard that the dripping faucet thing
does not work for faucets. I do not remember from where, but I do
believe it was a reputable source. Take that at face value since I
cannot confirm or refute the claim. However, if true, then the same could
be true for a
P-trap. Without true experimentation and repetitive results, how
could one truly know? Old wives tales and all, ya know.

Anyway, I have also heard that stuffing a wire coat hanger, with a
slight bend and rounded off tip (via pliers) stuffed down into the
trap, and cut off flush with the strainer basket conducts enough heat
to keep things thawed. Once again, I cannot not confirm this. Though, I
do believe I heard about this a long time ago on the Bill
Wattenberg (sp?) show on KGO AM. At least 6 years ago.

I do know that the dripping faucet keeps my water supply from freezing when
it gets below 32 . But then we live for now in a camping trailer out in
the woods ... with a little luck I'll get trusses up today on our new place
.. It's clad with plywood OSB , will be wrapped with 30 lb felt and have
all double glazed windows . I hate being cold .
--
Snag
Stone County



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On 11/26/2013 8:03 AM, David L. Martel wrote:
Oren,

Leaving a faucet dripping is a common tactic in Northern climes to keep
the water in uninsulated pipes (or poorly insulated) from freezing. when
folks are asleep or away a dripping faucet keeps water circulating through
the pipes. Un circulated, uninsulated water may rapidly lose temperature and
freeze. Dripping faucets bring warmer water into the pipes which retards
freezing.

Dave M.


I've heard that moving water doesn't freeze. Has
to be standing still. One of the reasons a stream
can be frozen on top (standing still) with running
water below.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 11/26/2013 8:08 AM, Snag wrote:

I do know that the dripping faucet keeps my water supply from freezing when
it gets below 32 . But then we live for now in a camping trailer out in
the woods ... with a little luck I'll get trusses up today on our new place
.. It's clad with plywood OSB , will be wrapped with 30 lb felt and have
all double glazed windows . I hate being cold .


I've heard that hay bales around the skirting
helps a LOT, in keeping the cold wind out from
under your trailer. I should do some thing
here, but suspect that hay bales won't be
accepted by the management.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 11/26/2013 8:08 AM, Snag wrote:

I do know that the dripping faucet keeps my water supply from
freezing when it gets below 32 . But then we live for now in a
camping trailer out in the woods ... with a little luck I'll get
trusses up today on our new place .. It's clad with plywood OSB ,
will be wrapped with 30 lb felt and have all double glazed windows .
I hate being cold .

I've heard that hay bales around the skirting
helps a LOT, in keeping the cold wind out from
under your trailer. I should do some thing
here, but suspect that hay bales won't be
accepted by the management.

I skirted this place with 1" foam building insulation . Helps a lot . I
also cover all the windows with clear plastic - though the biggest problem
is that the aluminum windows have no thermal break in the frames , so they
sweat no matter what if it's cold out . I have a 250w halogen light under
there to help keep it above freezing so the holding tanks don't freeze which
also makes the floor a little warmer .
--
Snag



---
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On 11/26/2013 8:09 AM, Snag wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 11/26/2013 8:08 AM, Snag wrote:

I do know that the dripping faucet keeps my water supply from
freezing when it gets below 32 . But then we live for now in a
camping trailer out in the woods ... with a little luck I'll get


I skirted this place with 1" foam building insulation . Helps a lot .
I also cover all the windows with clear plastic - though the biggest
problem is that the aluminum windows have no thermal break in the
frames , so they sweat no matter what if it's cold out . I have a
250w halogen light under there to help keep it above freezing so the
holding tanks don't freeze which also makes the floor a little warmer
.

Why not just install one of those small recirculating pumps (Watts is
the mfg) that keeps your hot water at the tap. Pretty ingenious the way
it works. Small valve at the point(s) farthest from the water heater
which causes the hot water being pumped to that faucet to backfeed into
the cold water side - creating a closed loop. Water on the cold side
(throughout the pipe run) stays tepid and when you turn on the hot
water, you have hot almost instantly.

I installed the system in my home because I thought it would be nice not
having to stand around waiting on my heated tile bathroom floor for the
hot water to reach me.

No problem here with pipes freezing due to the locations of the runs but
if I did, this would surely cure it and, likely, be cheaper and more
effective in the long run than wrapping the pipes with heat tape.

The pump system is $200 and installation is a breeze. If you can swap
out a faucet, you can install this.

On 11/26/2013 9:09 AM, Snag wrote:

I've heard that hay bales around the skirting
helps a LOT, in keeping the cold wind out from
under your trailer. I should do some thing
here, but suspect that hay bales won't be
accepted by the management.

I skirted this place with 1" foam building insulation . Helps a lot .

SM: That sounds wise. I should do that. i've also
considered that I can get free cardboard, all I
want. I've toyed with the idea of nail and staple
cardboard up from under. Not sure how humid it is
under, the cardboard might all turn to mildew.

I also cover all the windows with clear plastic - though the biggest problem
is that the aluminum windows have no thermal break in the frames , so they
sweat no matter what if it's cold out .

SM: when it was cold the other night, my outer
panes had frost, from my indoor humidifier. Seems
like there has to be some way to put some foam on
your window frames, to keep the cold out.


I have a 250w halogen light under
there to help keep it above freezing so the
holding tanks don't freeze which
also makes the floor a little warmer .

SM: That runs up your electric bill. But, what you
going to do? Better than freeze damage. In my old
advanced elderly, decrepit age, I get cold feet easy.
I've got a couple extra carpet samples in key places
like next to the bed. Helps me in my struggle to keep
my feet warm. I discovered this by accident, one time.
I was living in a masonry building with cement floor.
one foot was warm, and the other was cold. I looked,
and found the warm foot was on double carpet, the cold
foot was on single carpet.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 11/25/2013 05:21 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
"bob" wrote:
During feezing weather, I like to leave a faucet dripping to reduce the
chances of freezing pipe. However, people including me sometimes forget
and turn off the faucet completely.

Is there a dedicated valve that can be installed under the sink to let a
trickle of water out and directly into the p trap? This way nobody sees
the dripping and cannot accidentally turn it off.

Real tough to tell if you are serious, but I'll play along...

Define "dripping" in terms of enough to prevent freezing.

Why are you concerned with this particular faucet freezing in the first
place?

There's lot of details that you should be sharing.

This is recommended up here in the PNW whenever we get a lengthy cold
snap (as we are getting now). The idea is that a little flow somewhere
in the house keeps the water moving, and prevents freezing/ruptured pipes.

Just read one such recommendation a few days ago, actually.

Never done it myself, and have never had any trouble (I do cover the
outside hose bib, however).

Jon

On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:03:04 -0500, "David L. Martel"
wrote:

Oren,

Leaving a faucet dripping is a common tactic in Northern climes to keep
the water in uninsulated pipes (or poorly insulated) from freezing. when
folks are asleep or away a dripping faucet keeps water circulating through
the pipes. Un circulated, uninsulated water may rapidly lose temperature and
freeze. Dripping faucets bring warmer water into the pipes which retards
freezing.


Dave M.

I'm familiar with the concept. Usually outside hose bibs in the
South. I've lived in the North; including the Adirondack Mts. (west
of Lake Placid), but never had a problem with inside faucets needing
to drip. I guess some water lines are on the outside walls and subject
to freeze. I did have a pipe break in the garage. It was poorly
insulated when I bought the house.

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Jon Danniken wrote:
On 11/25/2013 05:21 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
"bob" wrote:
During feezing weather, I like to leave a faucet dripping to reduce the
chances of freezing pipe. However, people including me sometimes forget
and turn off the faucet completely.

Is there a dedicated valve that can be installed under the sink to let a
trickle of water out and directly into the p trap? This way nobody sees
the dripping and cannot accidentally turn it off.

Real tough to tell if you are serious, but I'll play along...

Define "dripping" in terms of enough to prevent freezing.

Why are you concerned with this particular faucet freezing in the first
place?

There's lot of details that you should be sharing.

This is recommended up here in the PNW whenever we get a lengthy cold
snap (as we are getting now). The idea is that a little flow somewhere
in the house keeps the water moving, and prevents freezing/ruptured pipes.

Just read one such recommendation a few days ago, actually.

Never done it myself, and have never had any trouble (I do cover the
outside hose bib, however).

Jon

I am familiar with the concept that running water does not freeze. That
still leaves the question of what the OP means by "dripping". I could take
a faucet apart, deform the washer or nick the seat and cause the faucet to
drip even when fully turned off. However, will that be enough to prevent
freezing? I don't know, because I don't know how much the OP wants the
faucet to drip.

As I said earlier, there are lots of details the OP should be sharing if
(s)he wants a definitive solution to the problem.

Unquestionably Confused wrote:

I skirted this place with 1" foam building insulation . Helps a lot .
I also cover all the windows with clear plastic - though the biggest
problem is that the aluminum windows have no thermal break in the
frames , so they sweat no matter what if it's cold out . I have a
250w halogen light under there to help keep it above freezing so the
holding tanks don't freeze which also makes the floor a little warmer
.

Why not just install one of those small recirculating pumps (Watts is
the mfg) that keeps your hot water at the tap. Pretty ingenious the
way it works. Small valve at the point(s) farthest from the water
heater which causes the hot water being pumped to that faucet to
backfeed into the cold water side - creating a closed loop. Water on
the cold side (throughout the pipe run) stays tepid and when you turn
on the hot water, you have hot almost instantly.

I installed the system in my home because I thought it would be nice
not having to stand around waiting on my heated tile bathroom floor
for the hot water to reach me.

No problem here with pipes freezing due to the locations of the runs
but if I did, this would surely cure it and, likely, be cheaper and
more effective in the long run than wrapping the pipes with heat tape.

The pump system is $200 and installation is a breeze. If you can
swap out a faucet, you can install this.

Did you miss the part where I said I'm living in a camping trailer ?

--
Snag



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On 11/26/2013 3:23 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Jon Danniken wrote:
On 11/25/2013 05:21 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
"bob" wrote:
During feezing weather, I like to leave a faucet dripping to reduce the
chances of freezing pipe. However, people including me sometimes forget
and turn off the faucet completely.

Is there a dedicated valve that can be installed under the sink to let a
trickle of water out and directly into the p trap? This way nobody sees
the dripping and cannot accidentally turn it off.

Real tough to tell if you are serious, but I'll play along...

Define "dripping" in terms of enough to prevent freezing.

Why are you concerned with this particular faucet freezing in the first
place?

There's lot of details that you should be sharing.

This is recommended up here in the PNW whenever we get a lengthy cold
snap (as we are getting now). The idea is that a little flow somewhere
in the house keeps the water moving, and prevents freezing/ruptured pipes.

Just read one such recommendation a few days ago, actually.

Never done it myself, and have never had any trouble (I do cover the
outside hose bib, however).

Jon

I am familiar with the concept that running water does not freeze.

You're sure about that?
Frozen water doesn't run...but that's confusing cause and effect.

Dripping the faucet has nothing to do with flow.
It's all about the thermodynamics of putting heat in faster than
it radiates to keep the temperature above freezing.
If you have a source of unfrozen water running at a rate that
gets it to the dripping faucet before radiation/conduction/convection
causes the water
to freeze at any point in the pipe you're good to go.

Dripping the bathroom faucet typically won't do much for the kitchen pipe.

Dripping is most effective when you have a short run of pipe that's
exposed to the cold, but the rest is much warmer.
If you have a quick response thermometer, you can do the experiment.
Let the system sit for a while. Then turn on the faucet and watch
the temperature. You'll see where the pipe is most exposed to the cold
as a function of time.

When I replaced the water service, I discussed the issue with the inspector.
He insists that water meters don't freeze, even tho they're much more
exposed than the rest of the buried pipe. When I started talking
thermodynamics, his eyes glazed over.
;-)

That
still leaves the question of what the OP means by "dripping". I could take
a faucet apart, deform the washer or nick the seat and cause the faucet to
drip even when fully turned off. However, will that be enough to prevent
freezing? I don't know, because I don't know how much the OP wants the
faucet to drip.

As I said earlier, there are lots of details the OP should be sharing if
(s)he wants a definitive solution to the problem.

On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 16:55:26 -0800, mike wrote:

On 11/26/2013 3:23 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Jon Danniken wrote:
On 11/25/2013 05:21 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
"bob" wrote:
During feezing weather, I like to leave a faucet dripping to reduce the
chances of freezing pipe. However, people including me sometimes forget
and turn off the faucet completely.

Is there a dedicated valve that can be installed under the sink to let a
trickle of water out and directly into the p trap? This way nobody sees
the dripping and cannot accidentally turn it off.

Real tough to tell if you are serious, but I'll play along...

Define "dripping" in terms of enough to prevent freezing.

Why are you concerned with this particular faucet freezing in the first
place?

There's lot of details that you should be sharing.

This is recommended up here in the PNW whenever we get a lengthy cold
snap (as we are getting now). The idea is that a little flow somewhere
in the house keeps the water moving, and prevents freezing/ruptured pipes.

Just read one such recommendation a few days ago, actually.

Never done it myself, and have never had any trouble (I do cover the
outside hose bib, however).

Jon

I am familiar with the concept that running water does not freeze.

You're sure about that?
Frozen water doesn't run...but that's confusing cause and effect.

No, it's two separate things.

Dripping the faucet has nothing to do with flow.

Yes it does. Dripping at the faucet causes and is equivalent to
flow. from where the water enters the house to where it drips.
Whetther the drip rate is enough or not to keep t he water from
freezing doesn't change that.

It's all about the thermodynamics of putting heat in faster than
it radiates to keep the temperature above freezing.

True, but if the water spends less time in the pipe, it has less time
to radiate heat. If there is no drip, it can spend 16 hours or more
at a time in the same spot of the pipe. Much more if the kitchen
isn't used. If it's dripping, it might only spend 10 minutes, or 3
hours, but still less than without a drip.

My friends bought a new house and the first winter a pipe running up
to the second floor, right by the back door, froze and leaked. When
they opened the wall, they saw the insulation had been put on the
wrong side of the pipe.

If you have a source of unfrozen water running at a rate that
gets it to the dripping faucet before radiation/conduction/convection
causes the water
to freeze at any point in the pipe you're good to go.

True.

Dripping the bathroom faucet typically won't do much for the kitchen pipe.

Of course not. I don't think he was suggesting that. I thought he
was trying to get the pipe that is dripping not to freeze.

Dripping is most effective when you have a short run of pipe that's
exposed to the cold, but the rest is much warmer.
If you have a quick response thermometer, you can do the experiment.
Let the system sit for a while. Then turn on the faucet and watch
the temperature. You'll see where the pipe is most exposed to the cold
as a function of time.

From this paragraph on, I think we are agreeing.

When I replaced the water service, I discussed the issue with the inspector.
He insists that water meters don't freeze, even tho they're much more
exposed than the rest of the buried pipe.

Do you think he's right. I don't have a water meter and neither do
my 100 neighbors, so I have no experience with them.

When I started talking
thermodynamics, his eyes glazed over.
;-)

That
still leaves the question of what the OP means by "dripping". I could take
a faucet apart, deform the washer or nick the seat and cause the faucet to
drip even when fully turned off. However, will that be enough to prevent
freezing? I don't know, because I don't know how much the OP wants the
faucet to drip.

As I said earlier, there are lots of details the OP should be sharing if
(s)he wants a definitive solution to the problem.

On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 23:23:40 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Jon Danniken wrote:
On 11/25/2013 05:21 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
"bob" wrote:
During feezing weather, I like to leave a faucet dripping to reduce the
chances of freezing pipe. However, people including me sometimes forget
and turn off the faucet completely.

Is there a dedicated valve that can be installed under the sink to let a
trickle of water out and directly into the p trap? This way nobody sees
the dripping and cannot accidentally turn it off.

Real tough to tell if you are serious, but I'll play along...

Define "dripping" in terms of enough to prevent freezing.

Why are you concerned with this particular faucet freezing in the first
place?

There's lot of details that you should be sharing.

This is recommended up here in the PNW whenever we get a lengthy cold
snap (as we are getting now). The idea is that a little flow somewhere
in the house keeps the water moving, and prevents freezing/ruptured pipes.

Just read one such recommendation a few days ago, actually.

Never done it myself, and have never had any trouble (I do cover the
outside hose bib, however).

Jon

I am familiar with the concept that running water does not freeze. That
still leaves the question of what the OP means by "dripping". I could take
a faucet apart, deform the washer or nick the seat and cause the faucet to
drip even when fully turned off. However, will that be enough to prevent
freezing? I don't know, because I don't know how much the OP wants the
faucet to drip.

Running water doesn't freeze because:

1. If it froze it wouldn't be running.

2. It's moving heat from somewhere else.

In this case, a running faucet doesn't freeze because or #2. The
water doesn't stand in the cold part of the pipe long enough to cool
off the freezing point. If the "drip" doesn't move enough water to
keep the temperature above the freezing point, it will freeze. The
fact that the water is moving is irrelevant.

As I said earlier, there are lots of details the OP should be sharing if
(s)he wants a definitive solution to the problem.

Insulating the pipe is the correct solution.

On 11/27/2013 3:08 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 23:23:40 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Jon Danniken wrote:
On 11/25/2013 05:21 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
"bob" wrote:
During feezing weather, I like to leave a faucet dripping to reduce the
chances of freezing pipe. However, people including me sometimes forget
and turn off the faucet completely.

Is there a dedicated valve that can be installed under the sink to let a
trickle of water out and directly into the p trap? This way nobody sees
the dripping and cannot accidentally turn it off.

Real tough to tell if you are serious, but I'll play along...

Define "dripping" in terms of enough to prevent freezing.

Why are you concerned with this particular faucet freezing in the first
place?

There's lot of details that you should be sharing.

This is recommended up here in the PNW whenever we get a lengthy cold
snap (as we are getting now). The idea is that a little flow somewhere
in the house keeps the water moving, and prevents freezing/ruptured pipes.

Just read one such recommendation a few days ago, actually.

Never done it myself, and have never had any trouble (I do cover the
outside hose bib, however).

Jon

I am familiar with the concept that running water does not freeze. That
still leaves the question of what the OP means by "dripping". I could take
a faucet apart, deform the washer or nick the seat and cause the faucet to
drip even when fully turned off. However, will that be enough to prevent
freezing? I don't know, because I don't know how much the OP wants the
faucet to drip.

Running water doesn't freeze because:

1. If it froze it wouldn't be running.

2. It's moving heat from somewhere else.

In this case, a running faucet doesn't freeze because or #2. The
water doesn't stand in the cold part of the pipe long enough to cool
off the freezing point. If the "drip" doesn't move enough water to
keep the temperature above the freezing point, it will freeze. The
fact that the water is moving is irrelevant.

As I said earlier, there are lots of details the OP should be sharing if
(s)he wants a definitive solution to the problem.

Insulating the pipe is the correct solution.

Insulating the pipe is usually a good thing.
It may be the solution.
If the water is not moving and bringing in more heat, insulation will
just mean it takes longer to freeze. It may be that there's enough
conduction
thru the water and the pipe from a part of the pipe in a warm
environment to keep the temperature up. But insulation on the warm
part of the pipe reduces that effect.
Most home dwellers won't have the knowledge to figure out the fine details.

On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 16:34:51 -0800, mike wrote:

On 11/27/2013 3:08 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 23:23:40 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Jon Danniken wrote:
On 11/25/2013 05:21 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
"bob" wrote:
During feezing weather, I like to leave a faucet dripping to reduce the
chances of freezing pipe. However, people including me sometimes forget
and turn off the faucet completely.

Is there a dedicated valve that can be installed under the sink to let a
trickle of water out and directly into the p trap? This way nobody sees
the dripping and cannot accidentally turn it off.

Real tough to tell if you are serious, but I'll play along...

Define "dripping" in terms of enough to prevent freezing.

Why are you concerned with this particular faucet freezing in the first
place?

There's lot of details that you should be sharing.

This is recommended up here in the PNW whenever we get a lengthy cold
snap (as we are getting now). The idea is that a little flow somewhere
in the house keeps the water moving, and prevents freezing/ruptured pipes.

Just read one such recommendation a few days ago, actually.

Never done it myself, and have never had any trouble (I do cover the
outside hose bib, however).

Jon

I am familiar with the concept that running water does not freeze. That
still leaves the question of what the OP means by "dripping". I could take
a faucet apart, deform the washer or nick the seat and cause the faucet to
drip even when fully turned off. However, will that be enough to prevent
freezing? I don't know, because I don't know how much the OP wants the
faucet to drip.

Running water doesn't freeze because:

1. If it froze it wouldn't be running.

2. It's moving heat from somewhere else.

In this case, a running faucet doesn't freeze because or #2. The
water doesn't stand in the cold part of the pipe long enough to cool
off the freezing point. If the "drip" doesn't move enough water to
keep the temperature above the freezing point, it will freeze. The
fact that the water is moving is irrelevant.

As I said earlier, there are lots of details the OP should be sharing if
(s)he wants a definitive solution to the problem.

Insulating the pipe is the correct solution.

Insulating the pipe is usually a good thing.
It may be the solution.
If the water is not moving and bringing in more heat, insulation will
just mean it takes longer to freeze. It may be that there's enough
conduction
thru the water and the pipe from a part of the pipe in a warm
environment to keep the temperature up. But insulation on the warm
part of the pipe reduces that effect.
Most home dwellers won't have the knowledge to figure out the fine details.

The "let the water run" trick only works in marginal circumstances,
usually when it's unusually cold outside at night. In this case (the
one under discussion), insulation is the solution. If the problem is
a constant sub-freezing situation, like an exterior pipe, insulation
won't do it, of course. Heat has to come from somewhere. Heat tape
is the solution, there.

wrote:
On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 16:34:51 -0800, mike wrote:

On 11/27/2013 3:08 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 23:23:40 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Jon Danniken wrote:
On 11/25/2013 05:21 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
"bob" wrote:
During feezing weather, I like to leave a faucet dripping to reduce the
chances of freezing pipe. However, people including me sometimes forget
and turn off the faucet completely.

Is there a dedicated valve that can be installed under the sink to let a
trickle of water out and directly into the p trap? This way nobody sees
the dripping and cannot accidentally turn it off.

Real tough to tell if you are serious, but I'll play along...

Define "dripping" in terms of enough to prevent freezing.

Why are you concerned with this particular faucet freezing in the first
place?

There's lot of details that you should be sharing.

This is recommended up here in the PNW whenever we get a lengthy cold
snap (as we are getting now). The idea is that a little flow somewhere
in the house keeps the water moving, and prevents freezing/ruptured pipes.

Just read one such recommendation a few days ago, actually.

Never done it myself, and have never had any trouble (I do cover the
outside hose bib, however).

Jon

I am familiar with the concept that running water does not freeze. That
still leaves the question of what the OP means by "dripping". I could take
a faucet apart, deform the washer or nick the seat and cause the faucet to
drip even when fully turned off. However, will that be enough to prevent
freezing? I don't know, because I don't know how much the OP wants the
faucet to drip.

Running water doesn't freeze because:

1. If it froze it wouldn't be running.

2. It's moving heat from somewhere else.

In this case, a running faucet doesn't freeze because or #2. The
water doesn't stand in the cold part of the pipe long enough to cool
off the freezing point. If the "drip" doesn't move enough water to
keep the temperature above the freezing point, it will freeze. The
fact that the water is moving is irrelevant.

As I said earlier, there are lots of details the OP should be sharing if
(s)he wants a definitive solution to the problem.

Insulating the pipe is the correct solution.

Insulating the pipe is usually a good thing.
It may be the solution.
If the water is not moving and bringing in more heat, insulation will
just mean it takes longer to freeze. It may be that there's enough
conduction
thru the water and the pipe from a part of the pipe in a warm
environment to keep the temperature up. But insulation on the warm
part of the pipe reduces that effect.
Most home dwellers won't have the knowledge to figure out the fine details.

The "let the water run" trick only works in marginal circumstances,
usually when it's unusually cold outside at night. In this case (the
one under discussion), insulation is the solution. If the problem is
a constant sub-freezing situation, like an exterior pipe, insulation
won't do it, of course. Heat has to come from somewhere. Heat tape
is the solution, there.

How do you know that "in this case (the one under discussion)" insulation
is the solution?

The only thing the OP has told us is that he likes to leave a faucet
dripping in freezing weather. He has yet to come back and tell us why,
other than to say to "reduce the chance of freezing". I'd still like to
know why he thinks there is a chance of freezing in the first place.

Some folks have assumed a pipe on an outside wall and situations like that,
but only the OP "Bob" can tell us what is actually going on.

On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 06:10:46 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 16:34:51 -0800, mike wrote:

On 11/27/2013 3:08 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 23:23:40 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Jon Danniken wrote:
On 11/25/2013 05:21 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
"bob" wrote:
During feezing weather, I like to leave a faucet dripping to reduce the
chances of freezing pipe. However, people including me sometimes forget
and turn off the faucet completely.

Is there a dedicated valve that can be installed under the sink to let a
trickle of water out and directly into the p trap? This way nobody sees
the dripping and cannot accidentally turn it off.

Real tough to tell if you are serious, but I'll play along...

Define "dripping" in terms of enough to prevent freezing.

Why are you concerned with this particular faucet freezing in the first
place?

There's lot of details that you should be sharing.

This is recommended up here in the PNW whenever we get a lengthy cold
snap (as we are getting now). The idea is that a little flow somewhere
in the house keeps the water moving, and prevents freezing/ruptured pipes.

Just read one such recommendation a few days ago, actually.

Never done it myself, and have never had any trouble (I do cover the
outside hose bib, however).

Jon

I am familiar with the concept that running water does not freeze. That
still leaves the question of what the OP means by "dripping". I could take
a faucet apart, deform the washer or nick the seat and cause the faucet to
drip even when fully turned off. However, will that be enough to prevent
freezing? I don't know, because I don't know how much the OP wants the
faucet to drip.

Running water doesn't freeze because:

1. If it froze it wouldn't be running.

2. It's moving heat from somewhere else.

In this case, a running faucet doesn't freeze because or #2. The
water doesn't stand in the cold part of the pipe long enough to cool
off the freezing point. If the "drip" doesn't move enough water to
keep the temperature above the freezing point, it will freeze. The
fact that the water is moving is irrelevant.

As I said earlier, there are lots of details the OP should be sharing if
(s)he wants a definitive solution to the problem.

Insulating the pipe is the correct solution.

Insulating the pipe is usually a good thing.
It may be the solution.
If the water is not moving and bringing in more heat, insulation will
just mean it takes longer to freeze. It may be that there's enough
conduction
thru the water and the pipe from a part of the pipe in a warm
environment to keep the temperature up. But insulation on the warm
part of the pipe reduces that effect.
Most home dwellers won't have the knowledge to figure out the fine details.

The "let the water run" trick only works in marginal circumstances,
usually when it's unusually cold outside at night. In this case (the
one under discussion), insulation is the solution. If the problem is
a constant sub-freezing situation, like an exterior pipe, insulation
won't do it, of course. Heat has to come from somewhere. Heat tape
is the solution, there.

How do you know that "in this case (the one under discussion)" insulation
is the solution?

If dripping water will do anything, it's a minor issue and a little
insulation will solve the problem.

The only thing the OP has told us is that he likes to leave a faucet
dripping in freezing weather. He has yet to come back and tell us why,
other than to say to "reduce the chance of freezing". I'd still like to
know why he thinks there is a chance of freezing in the first place.


He "likes to" keep the pipe from freezing. Insulating the pipe will
cure that problem. It really is easy enough for even you to figure it
out, if you try really hard.

Some folks have assumed a pipe on an outside wall and situations like that,
but only the OP "Bob" can tell us what is actually going on.

If it were on an interior wall, there wouldn't be much need, now would
there?

wrote:
On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 06:10:46 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

wrote:
..

The "let the water run" trick only works in marginal circumstances,
usually when it's unusually cold outside at night. In this case (the
one under discussion), insulation is the solution. If the problem is
a constant sub-freezing situation, like an exterior pipe, insulation
won't do it, of course. Heat has to come from somewhere. Heat tape
is the solution, there.

How do you know that "in this case (the one under discussion)" insulation
is the solution?

If dripping water will do anything, it's a minor issue and a little
insulation will solve the problem.

The only thing the OP has told us is that he likes to leave a faucet
dripping in freezing weather. He has yet to come back and tell us why,
other than to say to "reduce the chance of freezing". I'd still like to
know why he thinks there is a chance of freezing in the first place.


He "likes to" keep the pipe from freezing. Insulating the pipe will
cure that problem. It really is easy enough for even you to figure it
out, if you try really hard.

Some folks have assumed a pipe on an outside wall and situations like that,
but only the OP "Bob" can tell us what is actually going on.

If it were on an interior wall, there wouldn't be much need, now would
there?

There would be a need if there was no heat in the building, now wouldn't
there? Once again, only the OP "Bob" can tell us what is actually going on.

One possibility: A cottage or shop building that gets occasional use and
occasional heat. Visitor uses building and uses heat. Before he leave he
turns off the heat and the faucet. Result: frozen pipe, even on an interior
wall.

Can you tell, with certainty, from what "Bob" wrote that that situation
doesn't exist?

We can make all sorts of assumptions but we can't know for sure unless
"Bob" comes back and tells us.

On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 19:23:02 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

We can make all sorts of assumptions but we can't know for sure unless
"Bob" comes back and tells us.

....that was my assumptions :-\

On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 19:23:02 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 06:10:46 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

wrote:
.

The "let the water run" trick only works in marginal circumstances,
usually when it's unusually cold outside at night. In this case (the
one under discussion), insulation is the solution. If the problem is
a constant sub-freezing situation, like an exterior pipe, insulation
won't do it, of course. Heat has to come from somewhere. Heat tape
is the solution, there.

How do you know that "in this case (the one under discussion)" insulation
is the solution?

If dripping water will do anything, it's a minor issue and a little
insulation will solve the problem.

The only thing the OP has told us is that he likes to leave a faucet
dripping in freezing weather. He has yet to come back and tell us why,
other than to say to "reduce the chance of freezing". I'd still like to
know why he thinks there is a chance of freezing in the first place.


He "likes to" keep the pipe from freezing. Insulating the pipe will
cure that problem. It really is easy enough for even you to figure it
out, if you try really hard.

Some folks have assumed a pipe on an outside wall and situations like that,
but only the OP "Bob" can tell us what is actually going on.

If it were on an interior wall, there wouldn't be much need, now would
there?

There would be a need if there was no heat in the building, now wouldn't
there? Once again, only the OP "Bob" can tell us what is actually going on.

Idiot. If there were no heat at all, a drip of water wouldn't help.

One possibility: A cottage or shop building that gets occasional use and
occasional heat. Visitor uses building and uses heat. Before he leave he
turns off the heat and the faucet. Result: frozen pipe, even on an interior
wall.

A drip of water isn't going to help.

Can you tell, with certainty, from what "Bob" wrote that that situation
doesn't exist?

If a drip of water helps, yes.


We can make all sorts of assumptions but we can't know for sure unless
"Bob" comes back and tells us.

Why do you insist that "Bob" is a liar and idiot, when you're the only
one here demonstrating that he is all of the above?

On 11/28/2013 11:54 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 19:23:02 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 06:10:46 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

wrote:
.

The "let the water run" trick only works in marginal circumstances,
usually when it's unusually cold outside at night. In this case (the
one under discussion), insulation is the solution. If the problem is
a constant sub-freezing situation, like an exterior pipe, insulation
won't do it, of course. Heat has to come from somewhere. Heat tape
is the solution, there.

How do you know that "in this case (the one under discussion)" insulation
is the solution?

If dripping water will do anything, it's a minor issue and a little
insulation will solve the problem.

The only thing the OP has told us is that he likes to leave a faucet
dripping in freezing weather. He has yet to come back and tell us why,
other than to say to "reduce the chance of freezing". I'd still like to
know why he thinks there is a chance of freezing in the first place.


He "likes to" keep the pipe from freezing. Insulating the pipe will
cure that problem. It really is easy enough for even you to figure it
out, if you try really hard.

Some folks have assumed a pipe on an outside wall and situations like that,
but only the OP "Bob" can tell us what is actually going on.

If it were on an interior wall, there wouldn't be much need, now would
there?

There would be a need if there was no heat in the building, now wouldn't
there? Once again, only the OP "Bob" can tell us what is actually going on.

Idiot. If there were no heat at all, a drip of water wouldn't help.

Your kind of advice can be dangerous when implemented by someone without
a clue.

If the water is wet SOMEWHERE/ANYWHERE. And you can get it to the drip
before
it freezes. The drip can work. It's just thermodynamics.
Your blanket statements with the obligatory "idiot" are not educational.

Of course, the problem is internet wide. People who need help don't have
the knowledge or experience to know if they're getting sound
advice...or they wouldn't be here asking.

One possibility: A cottage or shop building that gets occasional use and
occasional heat. Visitor uses building and uses heat. Before he leave he
turns off the heat and the faucet. Result: frozen pipe, even on an interior
wall.

A drip of water isn't going to help.

Can you tell, with certainty, from what "Bob" wrote that that situation
doesn't exist?

If a drip of water helps, yes.


We can make all sorts of assumptions but we can't know for sure unless
"Bob" comes back and tells us.

Why do you insist that "Bob" is a liar and idiot, when you're the only
one here demonstrating that he is all of the above?

mike wrote:
On 11/28/2013 11:54 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 19:23:02 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

wrote:


Idiot. If there were no heat at all, a drip of water wouldn't help.

Your kind of advice can be dangerous when implemented by someone without a clue.


Don't waste your typing on him. He's just not worth the trouble.

On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 14:54:55 -0500, wrote:

If there were no heat at all, a drip of water wouldn't help.

Think about it.

Drips of water do help under some circumstances. Don't be silly.

I know of it happening two hours drive west of you!

On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 12:15:07 -0800, mike wrote:

On 11/28/2013 11:54 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 19:23:02 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 06:10:46 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

wrote:
.

The "let the water run" trick only works in marginal circumstances,
usually when it's unusually cold outside at night. In this case (the
one under discussion), insulation is the solution. If the problem is
a constant sub-freezing situation, like an exterior pipe, insulation
won't do it, of course. Heat has to come from somewhere. Heat tape
is the solution, there.

How do you know that "in this case (the one under discussion)" insulation
is the solution?

If dripping water will do anything, it's a minor issue and a little
insulation will solve the problem.

The only thing the OP has told us is that he likes to leave a faucet
dripping in freezing weather. He has yet to come back and tell us why,
other than to say to "reduce the chance of freezing". I'd still like to
know why he thinks there is a chance of freezing in the first place.


He "likes to" keep the pipe from freezing. Insulating the pipe will
cure that problem. It really is easy enough for even you to figure it
out, if you try really hard.

Some folks have assumed a pipe on an outside wall and situations like that,
but only the OP "Bob" can tell us what is actually going on.

If it were on an interior wall, there wouldn't be much need, now would
there?

There would be a need if there was no heat in the building, now wouldn't
there? Once again, only the OP "Bob" can tell us what is actually going on.

Idiot. If there were no heat at all, a drip of water wouldn't help.

Your kind of advice can be dangerous when implemented by someone without
a clue.

Then you'd better not listen to me.

If the water is wet SOMEWHERE/ANYWHERE. And you can get it to the drip
before
it freezes. The drip can work. It's just thermodynamics.
Your blanket statements with the obligatory "idiot" are not educational.

Wrong. If the entire building is freezing, it's going to take a LOT
more than a drip to keep a pipe from freezing.

Of course, the problem is internet wide. People who need help don't have
the knowledge or experience to know if they're getting sound
advice...or they wouldn't be here asking.

I'll bet you don't even own a mirror. What an amazing putz.

On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 13:32:52 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 14:54:55 -0500, wrote:

If there were no heat at all, a drip of water wouldn't help.

Think about it.

Drips of water do help under some circumstances. Don't be silly.

Of course dripping water can help but not if there is no heat. It
only works if there is a small cold spot. The water has to move fast
enough through the pipe to clear the cold area before it gives up
enough heat to freeze.

I know of it happening two hours drive west of you!

Two hours West? Are you calling Dufas a drip?

On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 17:06:56 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 13:32:52 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 14:54:55 -0500, wrote:

If there were no heat at all, a drip of water wouldn't help.

Think about it.

Drips of water do help under some circumstances. Don't be silly.

Of course dripping water can help but not if there is no heat. It
only works if there is a small cold spot. The water has to move fast
enough through the pipe to clear the cold area before it gives up
enough heat to freeze.

I know of it happening two hours drive west of you!

Two hours West? Are you calling Dufas a drip?

Driving fast from Etlanna, yes. No. Phenix City, across the river.

Way back in the yonder years; there was just as easily to have a pipe
- say galvanized, above ground @ 35 inches.

Let it drip. Watch for ice on the ground the next morning. Don't slip.

On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 14:49:53 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 17:06:56 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 13:32:52 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 14:54:55 -0500, wrote:

If there were no heat at all, a drip of water wouldn't help.

Think about it.

Drips of water do help under some circumstances. Don't be silly.

Of course dripping water can help but not if there is no heat. It
only works if there is a small cold spot. The water has to move fast
enough through the pipe to clear the cold area before it gives up
enough heat to freeze.

I know of it happening two hours drive west of you!

Two hours West? Are you calling Dufas a drip?

Driving fast from Etlanna, yes.

140Mi, not so fast.

No. Phenix City, across the river.

Ah, Phenix City is only an hour and South of here. ...at the speed
limit, even.

Way back in the yonder years; there was just as easily to have a pipe
- say galvanized, above ground @ 35 inches.

Let it drip. Watch for ice on the ground the next morning. Don't slip.

My original point is that there can only be a small section of the
pipe below freezing for it to work, but yes, it does work.