I am in the process of selling my house. What do you all think of a home inspector who takes off the breaker box cover off (not just opens the door to expose the breakers; he had to remove four screws to get the cover off), exposes the wire connections, all the while keeping the main breaker shut and so the insides of the box remained electrically hot as he did a visual inspection and took photos? The breaker box has a prominent sticker in it that says to open the main breaker prior to removing the cover.

In his report, the inspector commented:
"Any electrical repairs attempted by anyone other than a licensed electrician should be approached with caution. The power to the entire house should be turned off prior to beginning any repair efforts, no matter how trivial the repair may seem. ... Missing strain relief at panel. Have a licensed electrician make further evaluation and corrections as needed."

I am surprised first at how invasive this inspector was. Second at how he ignored safe practices by not securing the power. Third that he would have the gall to make judgments on the sufficiency of the internals. Fourth that he would go a step further and suggest he really does not know enough (so what's he doing in there in the first place?); get a licensed electrician to evaluate.

On Fri, 01 Nov 2013 01:16:14 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 21:25:28 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I am in the process of selling my house. What do you all think of a home inspector who takes off the breaker box cover off (not just opens the door to expose the breakers; he had to remove four screws to get the cover off), exposes the wire connections, all the while keeping the main breaker shut and so the insides of the box remained electrically hot as he did a visual inspection and took photos? The breaker box has a prominent sticker in it that says to open the main breaker prior to removing the cover.

In his report, the inspector commented:
"Any electrical repairs attempted by anyone other than a licensed electrician should be approached with caution. The power to the entire house should be turned off prior to beginning any repair efforts, no matter how trivial the repair may seem. ... Missing strain relief at panel. Have a licensed electrician make further evaluation and corrections as needed."

I am surprised first at how invasive this inspector was. Second at how he ignored safe practices by not securing the power. Third that he would have the gall to make judgments on the sufficiency of the internals. Fourth that he would go a step further and suggest he really does not know enough (so what's he doing in there in the first place?); get a licensed electrician to evaluate.

Home inspectors dance down the fine line of marginal competence in the
trades they inspect and acting like an expert.
They need to put in the disclaimer that you need a professional to
back up just about anything they say.


And they MUST find something wrong to report in order to justify the
expense of the inspection. My advise to people who are selling is to
make sure at least one switch is broken and at least one easy to
repair faucet leaks, or something along the lines, so the inspector
won't have too look to hard to find his "justification nuggets".

On 11/01/2013 12:25 AM, wrote:
I am in the process of selling my house. What do you all think of a home inspector who takes off the breaker box cover off (not just opens the door to expose the breakers; he had to remove four screws to get the cover off), exposes the wire connections, all the while keeping the main breaker shut and so the insides of the box remained electrically hot as he did a visual inspection and took photos? The breaker box has a prominent sticker in it that says to open the main breaker prior to removing the cover.

I work live panels all the time...no big deal.

Now if you told me this clown was in your panel and wearing metal jewelry, wearing flammable poly* clothing and or not wearing safety glasses then I'd agree they're an idiot.

On 11/1/2013 4:16 AM, morty wrote:
On 11/01/2013 12:25 AM, wrote:
I am in the process of selling my house. What do you all think of a
home inspector who takes off the breaker box cover off (not just opens
the door to expose the breakers; he had to remove four screws to get
the cover off), exposes the wire connections, all the while keeping
the main breaker shut and so the insides of the box remained
electrically hot as he did a visual inspection and took photos? The
breaker box has a prominent sticker in it that says to open the main
breaker prior to removing the cover.

I work live panels all the time...no big deal.

Now if you told me this clown was in your panel and wearing metal
jewelry, wearing flammable poly* clothing and or not wearing safety
glasses then I'd agree they're an idiot.

I work on any electrical equipment as though it was energized because
it's good practice. It's very much like the admonition that all guns are
loaded. ^_^

TDD

On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 21:25:28 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I am in the process of selling my house. What do you all think of a home inspector who takes off the breaker box cover off (not just opens the door to expose the breakers; he had to remove four screws to get the cover off), exposes the wire connections, all the while keeping the main breaker shut and so the insides of the box remained electrically hot as he did a visual inspection and took photos? The breaker box has a prominent sticker in it that says to open the main breaker prior to removing the cover.

In his report, the inspector commented:
"Any electrical repairs attempted by anyone other than a licensed electrician should be approached with caution. The power to the entire house should be turned off prior to beginning any repair efforts, no matter how trivial the repair may seem. ... Missing strain relief at panel. Have a licensed electrician make further evaluation and corrections as needed."

I am surprised first at how invasive this inspector was. Second at how he ignored safe practices by not securing the power. Third that he would have the gall to make judgments on the sufficiency of the internals. Fourth that he would go a step further and suggest he really does not know enough (so what's he doing in there in the first place?); get a licensed electrician to evaluate.

Sounds like he did his job. I'd have done it the same way. I was
taught by a master electrician how to work in live panels. It is done
all the time. I've changed out breakers with power on, etc.

He is not invasive, he is doing his job. He'd be remiss if he did not
take the panel cover off. He also made a caution as many homeowners
would try to do the fix themselves and could get hurt, thus the
comment to get a licensed electrician.

Sounds like he did a good job.

On Friday, November 1, 2013 5:52:25 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 21:25:28 -0700 (PDT),

wrote:



I am in the process of selling my house. What do you all think of a home inspector who takes off the breaker box cover off (not just opens the door to expose the breakers; he had to remove four screws to get the cover off), exposes the wire connections, all the while keeping the main breaker shut and so the insides of the box remained electrically hot as he did a visual inspection and took photos? The breaker box has a prominent sticker in it that says to open the main breaker prior to removing the cover.



In his report, the inspector commented:

"Any electrical repairs attempted by anyone other than a licensed electrician should be approached with caution. The power to the entire house should be turned off prior to beginning any repair efforts, no matter how trivial the repair may seem. ... Missing strain relief at panel. Have a licensed electrician make further evaluation and corrections as needed."



I am surprised first at how invasive this inspector was. Second at how he ignored safe practices by not securing the power. Third that he would have the gall to make judgments on the sufficiency of the internals. Fourth that he would go a step further and suggest he really does not know enough (so what's he doing in there in the first place?); get a licensed electrician to evaluate.



Sounds like he did his job. I'd have done it the same way. I was

taught by a master electrician how to work in live panels. It is done

all the time. I've changed out breakers with power on, etc.



He is not invasive, he is doing his job. He'd be remiss if he did not

take the panel cover off. He also made a caution as many homeowners

would try to do the fix themselves and could get hurt, thus the

comment to get a licensed electrician.



Sounds like he did a good job.

+1

Yes, what he did was normal. As for taking the panel cover off
without opening the main breaker, with most of the installed panels
out there, it's still possible to touch the energized service
connections at the top of the panel when taking the cover off.
You could hit it with the metal panel cover if you're not careful or
you could stick your finger in later up there if you're totally clueless.
I've seen newer panels on the Holmes TV show where the upper part
has it's own separate cover, that has to be removed in addition
to the main cover. That sounds like a good idea. That way once
the main is open, everything below, ie the regular breakers are
de-energized. But I haven't actually seen one of those myself.
Newest panels I've seen is circa 2007 or so
era and those just had the typical one piece cover.

If you have the typical one piece cover, if you know what you're
doing, there isn't an issue with taking it off without opening
the main breaker. And if you don't know what you're doing, relying
on opening the main breaker in the panel to prevent you from
getting killed isn't sufficient. Open the main breaker, let the
top of the panel go back inside the panel instead of removing it
carefully straight out, and you could still be dead.

Whoever posted this either hasn't dealt with home inspectors
before or used half-assed ones. I've used them on several
occasions and they all did what this one did. Taking a look
inside the breaker box is important because it's a common
place to find dangerous stuff where homeowners or handymen, etc
did all kinds of things wrong. Suggesting that a licensed pro,
be it electrician, plumber, structural engineer, be called for
further evaluation is also typical whenn the inspector spots
something wrong. Part of that is CYA in the modern world.

On Friday, November 1, 2013 3:54:27 AM UTC-4, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Fri, 01 Nov 2013 01:16:14 -0400, wrote:



On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 21:25:28 -0700 (PDT),

wrote:



I am in the process of selling my house. What do you all think of a home inspector who takes off the breaker box cover off (not just opens the door to expose the breakers; he had to remove four screws to get the cover off), exposes the wire connections, all the while keeping the main breaker shut and so the insides of the box remained electrically hot as he did a visual inspection and took photos? The breaker box has a prominent sticker in it that says to open the main breaker prior to removing the cover.



In his report, the inspector commented:

"Any electrical repairs attempted by anyone other than a licensed electrician should be approached with caution. The power to the entire house should be turned off prior to beginning any repair efforts, no matter how trivial the repair may seem. ... Missing strain relief at panel. Have a licensed electrician make further evaluation and corrections as needed."



I am surprised first at how invasive this inspector was. Second at how he ignored safe practices by not securing the power. Third that he would have the gall to make judgments on the sufficiency of the internals. Fourth that he would go a step further and suggest he really does not know enough (so what's he doing in there in the first place?); get a licensed electrician to evaluate.



Home inspectors dance down the fine line of marginal competence in the

trades they inspect and acting like an expert.

They need to put in the disclaimer that you need a professional to

back up just about anything they say.





And they MUST find something wrong to report in order to justify the

expense of the inspection. My advise to people who are selling is to

make sure at least one switch is broken and at least one easy to

repair faucet leaks, or something along the lines, so the inspector

won't have too look to hard to find his "justification nuggets".

LOL. I've thought about that too. With an average house, the
home inspection is essentially free to the buyer, because as you
say, the inspector usually finds at least a few things that can
take $400 of the price of the sale. But if you have a house
with few problems, it's an interesting idea to leave a few simple
things that you know about, that you can fix yourself later,
etc, just so the inspector will find something to make the buyer
feel like they did find some things.

The sad ones of course are the ones where the inspector spots
some trivial stuff and completely misses obvious major stuff
that was readily visible. You see that on the Holmes TV show
in Canada.

On 11/1/2013 5:29 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

I work on any electrical equipment as though it was energized because
it's good practice. It's very much like the admonition that all guns are
loaded. ^_^

TDD

And, all rapper type teens are packing? Any teen
with droopy drawers, hat on sideways, flashing gang
hand signs. Got to be packing a nine.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

I have pulled panel covers from live panels its no biggie, if done carefully...

and even a main with the main breaker off still has power.........

if the home inspector hadnt pulled the cover what we be your thoughts about that?

On 11/1/2013 12:25 AM, wrote:
I am in the process of selling my house. What do you all think of a home inspector who takes off the breaker box cover off (not just opens the door to expose the breakers; he had to remove four screws to get the cover off), exposes the wire connections, all the while keeping the main breaker shut and so the insides of the box remained electrically hot as he did a visual inspection and took photos? The breaker box has a prominent sticker in it that says to open the main breaker prior to removing the cover.

In his report, the inspector commented:
"Any electrical repairs attempted by anyone other than a licensed electrician should be approached with caution. The power to the entire house should be turned off prior to beginning any repair efforts, no matter how trivial the repair may seem. ... Missing strain relief at panel. Have a licensed electrician make further evaluation and corrections as needed."

I am surprised first at how invasive this inspector was. Second at how he ignored safe practices by not securing the power. Third that he would have the gall to make judgments on the sufficiency of the internals. Fourth that he would go a step further and suggest he really does not know enough (so what's he doing in there in the first place?); get a licensed electrician to evaluate.


Sorry it wasn't what you expected to see. I've had a lot of panel boxes
open, while still hot. The missing strain relief (probably what we
fondly called Romex connector) is important. Helps keep the sharp edge
of the panel box from wearing through the wire. I had such a situation
with the furnace in my trailer. Noticed it after I'd been here for a few
years.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Friday, November 1, 2013 8:44:40 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 11/1/2013 12:25 AM, wrote:

I am in the process of selling my house. What do you all think of a home inspector who takes off the breaker box cover off (not just opens the door to expose the breakers; he had to remove four screws to get the cover off), exposes the wire connections, all the while keeping the main breaker shut and so the insides of the box remained electrically hot as he did a visual inspection and took photos? The breaker box has a prominent sticker in it that says to open the main breaker prior to removing the cover.



In his report, the inspector commented:

"Any electrical repairs attempted by anyone other than a licensed electrician should be approached with caution. The power to the entire house should be turned off prior to beginning any repair efforts, no matter how trivial the repair may seem. ... Missing strain relief at panel. Have a licensed electrician make further evaluation and corrections as needed."



I am surprised first at how invasive this inspector was. Second at how he ignored safe practices by not securing the power. Third that he would have the gall to make judgments on the sufficiency of the internals. Fourth that he would go a step further and suggest he really does not know enough (so what's he doing in there in the first place?); get a licensed electrician to evaluate.





Sorry it wasn't what you expected to see. I've had a lot of panel boxes

open, while still hot. The missing strain relief (probably what we

fondly called Romex connector) is important. Helps keep the sharp edge

of the panel box from wearing through the wire. I had such a situation

with the furnace in my trailer. Noticed it after I'd been here for a few

years.



+1

How did this strange post wind up as 4 separate threads? I
don't seen the original, just other threads started by various
folks who responded to it.

I tried the leave easy to find troubles, FAILURE.......

the home inspector created issues to I guess justify his fee.

like a gas leak on a brand new water heater.

I had the control valve assembly replaced, the manufacturer sent one fast and free.

the plumber who installed it said it had no leak and was fine.

On 11/1/2013 8:47 AM, wrote:

Sorry it wasn't what you expected to see. I've had a lot of panel boxes
open, while still hot. The missing strain relief (probably what we
fondly called Romex connector) is important. Helps keep the sharp edge


+1

How did this strange post wind up as 4 separate threads? I
don't seen the original, just other threads started by various
folks who responded to it.

Don't know. usenet sure is strange. I did full quote
the OP on my last post, so you can see the text there.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Fri, 1 Nov 2013 05:31:09 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Friday, November 1, 2013 3:54:27 AM UTC-4, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Fri, 01 Nov 2013 01:16:14 -0400, wrote:



On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 21:25:28 -0700 (PDT),

wrote:



I am in the process of selling my house. What do you all think of a home inspector who takes off the breaker box cover off (not just opens the door to expose the breakers; he had to remove four screws to get the cover off), exposes the wire connections, all the while keeping the main breaker shut and so the insides of the box remained electrically hot as he did a visual inspection and took photos? The breaker box has a prominent sticker in it that says to open the main breaker prior to removing the cover.



In his report, the inspector commented:

"Any electrical repairs attempted by anyone other than a licensed electrician should be approached with caution. The power to the entire house should be turned off prior to beginning any repair efforts, no matter how trivial the repair may seem. ... Missing strain relief at panel. Have a licensed electrician make further evaluation and corrections as needed."



I am surprised first at how invasive this inspector was. Second at how he ignored safe practices by not securing the power. Third that he would have the gall to make judgments on the sufficiency of the internals. Fourth that he would go a step further and suggest he really does not know enough (so what's he doing in there in the first place?); get a licensed electrician to evaluate.



Home inspectors dance down the fine line of marginal competence in the

trades they inspect and acting like an expert.

They need to put in the disclaimer that you need a professional to

back up just about anything they say.





And they MUST find something wrong to report in order to justify the

expense of the inspection. My advise to people who are selling is to

make sure at least one switch is broken and at least one easy to

repair faucet leaks, or something along the lines, so the inspector

won't have too look to hard to find his "justification nuggets".

LOL. I've thought about that too. With an average house, the
home inspection is essentially free to the buyer, because as you
say, the inspector usually finds at least a few things that can
take $400 of the price of the sale. But if you have a house
with few problems, it's an interesting idea to leave a few simple
things that you know about, that you can fix yourself later,
etc, just so the inspector will find something to make the buyer
feel like they did find some things.

The sad ones of course are the ones where the inspector spots
some trivial stuff and completely misses obvious major stuff
that was readily visible. You see that on the Holmes TV show
in Canada.

That's pretty funny. Maybe Home Depot can sell defective washers so we
can replace them with good ones after the inspection.

wrote:
I am in the process of selling my house. What do you all think of a
home inspector who takes off the breaker box cover off (not just
opens the door to expose the breakers; he had to remove four screws
to get the cover off), exposes the wire connections, all the while
keeping the main breaker shut and so the insides of the box remained
electrically hot as he did a visual inspection and took photos? The
breaker box has a prominent sticker in it that says to open the main
breaker prior to removing the cover.

In his report, the inspector commented:
"Any electrical repairs attempted by anyone other than a licensed
electrician should be approached with caution. The power to the
entire house should be turned off prior to beginning any repair
efforts, no matter how trivial the repair may seem. ... Missing
strain relief at panel. Have a licensed electrician make further
evaluation and corrections as needed."

I am surprised first at how invasive this inspector was. Second at
how he ignored safe practices by not securing the power. Third that
he would have the gall to make judgments on the sufficiency of the
internals. Fourth that he would go a step further and suggest he
really does not know enough (so what's he doing in there in the first
place?); get a licensed electrician to evaluate.

Assuming that this is a for-real post, what the inspector did is normal.
That's what he is supposed to do so he can see inside the box to make sure
it is code compliant. Whenever I have a new electric service panel
installed, that's what the township building inspector does when he does the
final inspection on the permit (along with other inspections regarding the
grounding, grounding rods, jumpers across the water meter and hot water
heater, etc). And, of course, his report is going to contain boilerplate
safety language so the OP or anyone else doesn't later say that he said to
repair certain items and neglected to say to turn the power off first and
use qualified licensed electricians to do the work etc.

On 11/1/2013 12:25 AM, wrote:
I am in the process of selling my house. What do you all think of a home inspector who takes off the breaker box cover off (not just opens the door to expose the breakers; he had to remove four screws to get the cover off), exposes the wire connections, all the while keeping the main breaker shut and so the insides of the box remained electrically hot as he did a visual inspection and took photos? The breaker box has a prominent sticker in it that says to open the main breaker prior to removing the cover.

In his report, the inspector commented:
"Any electrical repairs attempted by anyone other than a licensed electrician should be approached with caution. The power to the entire house should be turned off prior to beginning any repair efforts, no matter how trivial the repair may seem. ... Missing strain relief at panel. Have a licensed electrician make further evaluation and corrections as needed."

I am surprised first at how invasive this inspector was. Second at how he ignored safe practices by not securing the power. Third that he would have the gall to make judgments on the sufficiency of the internals. Fourth that he would go a step further and suggest he really does not know enough (so what's he doing in there in the first place?); get a licensed electrician to evaluate.


Invasive? Knocking holes in sheetrock and ripping off roofing Mike
Holmes style is invasive. This guy was doing his job.

Safe practices? Maybe for you. He probably does this on a frequent
basis and it's really no big deal. I bet you would have really been up
in arms if he had shut off power to the house and you had to reset all
those blinking clocks.

Gall? Making judgments is his job. He's not going to do the work and he
wouldn't be wise to suggest the buyer or home owner undertake the repair.

He found a problem, but he has basically gone as far as he can. Did you
expect him to be expert in every system in the home? Good luck with that.

I think I wish he had inspected the house I bought. Maybe I wouldn't be
out $20k in repairs for stuff that an inspector should have caught.

Thank you gfre, ashton, tra, bob, dgk and the many others who responded. This is a real-life situation. I have since found the phrase "Missing strain relief at panel,. Have a licensed electrician make further evaluation and corrections as needed" being used in inspection reports from Florida to California. Even the punctuation typo is present. The software must be the same for punching out these reports.

My house was built in late 1994. The panel has a 1995 City inspection sticker on it. I doubt the young single woman who owned the house before me was capable of any modifications to anything. A licensed inspector evaluated etc. my house prior to my purchasing it in 2003. No such deficiency like the above was stated. I do not think the 2003 inspector took off the panel cover. I never went behind the panel cover.

I suppose standards in home inspection have changed.

Of course a person can work with an electrically hot wires present and not always be shocked or electrocuted. But this is about best practices and minimizing the chances of damage to life and property. I am navy nuclear trained and have zero patience for those who calculate their odds of an accident using lines like "I have never been electrocuted by doing xyz."

On 11/01/2013 09:56 AM, dgk wrote:
On Fri, 1 Nov 2013 05:31:09 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Friday, November 1, 2013 3:54:27 AM UTC-4, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Fri, 01 Nov 2013 01:16:14 -0400, wrote:



On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 21:25:28 -0700 (PDT),

wrote:



I am in the process of selling my house. What do you all think of a home inspector who takes off the breaker box cover off (not just opens the door to expose the breakers; he had to remove four screws to get the cover off), exposes the wire connections, all the while keeping the main breaker shut and so the insides of the box remained electrically hot as he did a visual inspection and took photos? The breaker box has a prominent sticker in it that says to open the main breaker prior to removing the cover.



In his report, the inspector commented:

"Any electrical repairs attempted by anyone other than a licensed electrician should be approached with caution. The power to the entire house should be turned off prior to beginning any repair efforts, no matter how trivial the repair may seem. ... Missing strain relief at panel. Have a licensed electrician make further evaluation and corrections as needed."



I am surprised first at how invasive this inspector was. Second at how he ignored safe practices by not securing the power. Third that he would have the gall to make judgments on the sufficiency of the internals. Fourth that he would go a step further and suggest he really does not know enough (so what's he doing in there in the first place?); get a licensed electrician to evaluate.



Home inspectors dance down the fine line of marginal competence in the

trades they inspect and acting like an expert.

They need to put in the disclaimer that you need a professional to

back up just about anything they say.





And they MUST find something wrong to report in order to justify the

expense of the inspection. My advise to people who are selling is to

make sure at least one switch is broken and at least one easy to

repair faucet leaks, or something along the lines, so the inspector

won't have too look to hard to find his "justification nuggets".

LOL. I've thought about that too. With an average house, the
home inspection is essentially free to the buyer, because as you
say, the inspector usually finds at least a few things that can
take $400 of the price of the sale. But if you have a house
with few problems, it's an interesting idea to leave a few simple
things that you know about, that you can fix yourself later,
etc, just so the inspector will find something to make the buyer
feel like they did find some things.

The sad ones of course are the ones where the inspector spots
some trivial stuff and completely misses obvious major stuff
that was readily visible. You see that on the Holmes TV show
in Canada.

That's pretty funny. Maybe Home Depot can sell defective washers so we
can replace them with good ones after the inspection.


I tried that with a car once, A2 chassis VW GTI 16V, got it all fixed up
before I moved to MD and having lived in MD before I knew the safety
inspection was miserable - I'd never seen a car pass the 1st time. I
knew that the load-sensing rear brake prop valve was frozen up and I
actually had the replacement in hand, but I thought that I'd be slick,
let the inspector catch it, then do what I was going to do anyway and
replace it and everyone's happy - inspector 'cause he found something,
and me because I wouldn't have to spend any money that I hadn't already
spent, save for a few bucks worth of brake fluid. Well, he *didn't*
find the frozen prop valve (a real safety issue) but he did tell me I
had to replace my windshield because it was "too sandblasted." GRR!

Only reason I didn't bitch and moan was that the windshield was glued in
but leaking, so I kicked it out myself, POR-15'd the lip, then had a
glass guy come put a new one in for me. I also popped the rear window
out at the same time and did that lip too.

Oddly after I sold that car to a friend some neighborhood kids busted
out one of the rear quarter windows, so I ended up replacing that for
her as well. Got lots of practice R&Ring glass on that car for some reason.

Weird coincidence - going to a party at her brother's place tonight,
probably will see her for the first time in 5+ years.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Friday, November 1, 2013 10:40:06 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Thank you gfre, ashton, tra, bob, dgk and the many others who responded. This is a real-life situation. I have since found the phrase "Missing strain relief at panel,. Have a licensed electrician make further evaluation and corrections as needed" being used in inspection reports from Florida to California. Even the punctuation typo is present. The software must be the same for punching out these reports.



My house was built in late 1994. The panel has a 1995 City inspection sticker on it. I doubt the young single woman who owned the house before me was capable of any modifications to anything. A licensed inspector evaluated etc. my house prior to my purchasing it in 2003. No such deficiency like the above was stated. I do not think the 2003 inspector took off the panel cover. I never went behind the panel cover.



I suppose standards in home inspection have changed.


Inspectors here pulled the panel cover off in the early 90's.





Of course a person can work with an electrically hot wires present and not always be shocked or electrocuted. But this is about best practices and minimizing the chances of damage to life and property. I am navy nuclear trained and have zero patience for those who calculate their odds of an accident using lines like "I have never been electrocuted by doing xyz."

Then you should be able to tell us whether there is in
fact a missing strain relief at the panel or not. Every inspection
I've had done, I made sure to be there so that the inspector
can point out things to me, I can ask questions, etc.

And I hope you realize that "hot wires", ie the main service wires,
are still live and there to be touched with the typical panel cover off,
even if you do turn off the main breaker.

wrote in message
...
I am in the process of selling my house. What do you all think of a home
inspector who takes off the breaker box cover off (not just opens the door
to expose the breakers; he had to remove four screws to get the cover off),
exposes the wire connections, all the while keeping the main breaker shut
and so the insides of the box remained electrically hot as he did a visual
inspection and took photos? The breaker box has a prominent sticker in it
that says to open the main breaker prior to removing the cover.

In his report, the inspector commented:
"Any electrical repairs attempted by anyone other than a licensed
electrician should be approached with caution. The power to the entire house
should be turned off prior to beginning any repair efforts, no matter how
trivial the repair may seem. ... Missing strain relief at panel. Have a
licensed electrician make further evaluation and corrections as needed."

I am surprised first at how invasive this inspector was. Second at how he
ignored safe practices by not securing the power. Third that he would have
the gall to make judgments on the sufficiency of the internals. Fourth that
he would go a step further and suggest he really does not know enough (so
what's he doing in there in the first place?); get a licensed electrician to
evaluate.



Sounds normal to me. The breaker box has to have stickers like that on it
for lawsuit protection. I bought a house about 9 years ago and the
inspector pulled the cover off. I worked as an electrician for a company
before retiring. We opened many boxes that would make the house box look
small. Also higher voltgage and current ratings.

He is not going to make any corrections. The statement about getting a
license electrician is boiler plate from the computer. Meaning it should be
corrected.

He could be checking to see if aluminum wiring is used in the house. That
could be a deal breaker for some.

On Friday, November 1, 2013 10:16:15 AM UTC-4, TomR wrote:
wrote:

I am in the process of selling my house. What do you all think of a

home inspector who takes off the breaker box cover off (not just

opens the door to expose the breakers; he had to remove four screws

to get the cover off), exposes the wire connections, all the while

keeping the main breaker shut and so the insides of the box remained

electrically hot as he did a visual inspection and took photos? The

breaker box has a prominent sticker in it that says to open the main

breaker prior to removing the cover.



In his report, the inspector commented:

"Any electrical repairs attempted by anyone other than a licensed

electrician should be approached with caution. The power to the

entire house should be turned off prior to beginning any repair

efforts, no matter how trivial the repair may seem. ... Missing

strain relief at panel. Have a licensed electrician make further

evaluation and corrections as needed."



I am surprised first at how invasive this inspector was. Second at

how he ignored safe practices by not securing the power. Third that

he would have the gall to make judgments on the sufficiency of the

internals. Fourth that he would go a step further and suggest he

really does not know enough (so what's he doing in there in the first

place?); get a licensed electrician to evaluate.



Assuming that this is a for-real post, what the inspector did is normal.

That's what he is supposed to do so he can see inside the box to make sure

it is code compliant. Whenever I have a new electric service panel

installed, that's what the township building inspector does when he does the

final inspection on the permit (along with other inspections regarding the

grounding, grounding rods, jumpers across the water meter and hot water

heater, etc). And, of course, his report is going to contain boilerplate

safety language so the OP or anyone else doesn't later say that he said to

repair certain items and neglected to say to turn the power off first and

use qualified licensed electricians to do the work etc.


That's one thing all of these inspectors are good at, CYA.
Can't say that I blame them. They have enough stuff in
there to protect themselves. On the Peoples Court a few
weeks ago a guy was suing his home inspector for $5K
in damages because he also did the termite inspection.
Soon as I heard the two sides in the case, I figured it was
unlikely the home buyer was going to win, because it's
so hard to prove, especially with termites, that it was
obvious and the inspector should have found it.

But this case was a little different. The buyer had
heard through his real estate agent that the house had
a termite problem in one area. He specifically told
the inspector about it and to look there. Inspector
said there was no evidence of termites. Six months
after buying, the termites were swarming all over.
He called in a treatment company and the company said
that mud tunnels were there and easy to spot, etc.
Inspector claimed that they were hidden, termite
guy must have removed trim mouldings, etc to see
them, etc, etc.

So, the homeowner won this one. But... The home
inspection contract says that if the inspector screws
up, damages are limited to the lesser of the cost
of repairs or the cost of the inspection. So,
the guy won $400, which isn't much of a victory.

On Friday, November 1, 2013 11:01:15 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
wrote in message

...

I am in the process of selling my house. What do you all think of a home

inspector who takes off the breaker box cover off (not just opens the door

to expose the breakers; he had to remove four screws to get the cover off),

exposes the wire connections, all the while keeping the main breaker shut

and so the insides of the box remained electrically hot as he did a visual

inspection and took photos? The breaker box has a prominent sticker in it

that says to open the main breaker prior to removing the cover.



In his report, the inspector commented:

"Any electrical repairs attempted by anyone other than a licensed

electrician should be approached with caution. The power to the entire house

should be turned off prior to beginning any repair efforts, no matter how

trivial the repair may seem. ... Missing strain relief at panel. Have a

licensed electrician make further evaluation and corrections as needed."



I am surprised first at how invasive this inspector was. Second at how he

ignored safe practices by not securing the power. Third that he would have

the gall to make judgments on the sufficiency of the internals. Fourth that

he would go a step further and suggest he really does not know enough (so

what's he doing in there in the first place?); get a licensed electrician to

evaluate.







Sounds normal to me. The breaker box has to have stickers like that on it

for lawsuit protection. I bought a house about 9 years ago and the

inspector pulled the cover off. I worked as an electrician for a company

before retiring. We opened many boxes that would make the house box look

small. Also higher voltgage and current ratings.



He is not going to make any corrections. The statement about getting a

license electrician is boiler plate from the computer. Meaning it should be

corrected.



He could be checking to see if aluminum wiring is used in the house. That

could be a deal breaker for some.


This is the first person I've heard complaining that a
home inspector was too invasive in his procedure. Every other
one was "You can't believe all the stuff he missed, he never
went up on the roof, etc... "

On Friday, November 1, 2013 7:39:34 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:



And, all rapper type teens are packing? Any teen

with droopy drawers, hat on sideways, flashing gang

hand signs. Got to be packing a nine.



--

.

Christopher A. Young

Learn about Jesus

www.lds.org

.

Doesn't sound like Stormy?

On Friday, November 1, 2013 10:58:27 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 1 Nov 2013 05:24:18 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:



I've seen newer panels on the Holmes TV show where the upper part

has it's own separate cover, that has to be removed in addition

to the main cover.



That is the code in Canada.

I see. I was wondering if it was a Canadian thing,
since Holmes is the only place I've seen it. It does
sound like a good idea to make them that way though.
Then with the main off and taking off the main cover
panel, there isn't anything energized someone going
to put in a breaker, or just poking around could touch.
Of course, I guess you could say if you know what
you're doing, it's easy to avoid doing that anyway.
And if you're not, you shouldn't be in there to begin
with.....

Now if someone could explain why on almost all the
Homes shows up there in Canada, they put the frigging panel
in sideways instead of vertical..... Seems really,
really dumb to me.

On Friday, November 1, 2013 7:55:59 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Then you should be able to tell us whether there is in
fact a missing strain relief at the panel or not. Every inspection
I've had done, I made sure to be there so that the inspector
can point out things to me, I can ask questions, etc.

I felt the buyer had a right not to have the seller (me) present so he was uninhibited as possible about asking questions and getting to know what supposedly may be his house. I think transparency is the key to good business.

I have not researched the requirements for housing strain relief at this point. The panel was city approved. Hence I am left wondering if the code changed.

I do not want to argue. See below where I admit I was a jerk on the "power on" point.

And I hope you realize that "hot wires", ie the main service wires,
are still live and there to be touched with the typical panel cover off,

even if you do turn off the main breaker.

Yep. The issue is about minimizing the chances. But perhaps of greater interest to the many deriding my point of view about safety: A local friend whose trades knowledge I respect said, in so many words, I was being a jerk about the issue of the main breaker being shut when inspection took place. I trust her. You all have reinforced what she said. Thanks to all for posting your thoughts.

On Fri, 01 Nov 2013 09:56:42 -0400, dgk wrote:

On Fri, 1 Nov 2013 05:31:09 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Friday, November 1, 2013 3:54:27 AM UTC-4, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Fri, 01 Nov 2013 01:16:14 -0400, wrote:



On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 21:25:28 -0700 (PDT),

wrote:



I am in the process of selling my house. What do you all think of a home inspector who takes off the breaker box cover off (not just opens the door to expose the breakers; he had to remove four screws to get the cover off), exposes the wire connections, all the while keeping the main breaker shut and so the insides of the box remained electrically hot as he did a visual inspection and took photos? The breaker box has a prominent sticker in it that says to open the main breaker prior to removing the cover.



In his report, the inspector commented:

"Any electrical repairs attempted by anyone other than a licensed electrician should be approached with caution. The power to the entire house should be turned off prior to beginning any repair efforts, no matter how trivial the repair may seem. ... Missing strain relief at panel. Have a licensed electrician make further evaluation and corrections as needed."



I am surprised first at how invasive this inspector was. Second at how he ignored safe practices by not securing the power. Third that he would have the gall to make judgments on the sufficiency of the internals. Fourth that he would go a step further and suggest he really does not know enough (so what's he doing in there in the first place?); get a licensed electrician to evaluate.



Home inspectors dance down the fine line of marginal competence in the

trades they inspect and acting like an expert.

They need to put in the disclaimer that you need a professional to

back up just about anything they say.





And they MUST find something wrong to report in order to justify the

expense of the inspection. My advise to people who are selling is to

make sure at least one switch is broken and at least one easy to

repair faucet leaks, or something along the lines, so the inspector

won't have too look to hard to find his "justification nuggets".

LOL. I've thought about that too. With an average house, the
home inspection is essentially free to the buyer, because as you
say, the inspector usually finds at least a few things that can
take $400 of the price of the sale. But if you have a house
with few problems, it's an interesting idea to leave a few simple
things that you know about, that you can fix yourself later,
etc, just so the inspector will find something to make the buyer
feel like they did find some things.

The sad ones of course are the ones where the inspector spots
some trivial stuff and completely misses obvious major stuff
that was readily visible. You see that on the Holmes TV show
in Canada.

That's pretty funny. Maybe Home Depot can sell defective washers so we
can replace them with good ones after the inspection.

I first saw this when I was working at "The Fox Theater" I was told
to leave a box cover off an electrical box. The foreman said.....That
will be something easy to fix and it will make the inspector happy.

On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 21:25:28 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I am in the process of selling my house. What do you all think of a home inspector who takes off the breaker box cover off (not just opens the door to expose the breakers; he had to remove four screws to get the cover off), exposes the wire connections, all the while keeping the main breaker shut and so the insides of the box remained electrically hot as he did a visual inspection and took photos? The breaker box has a prominent sticker in it that says to open the main breaker prior to removing the cover.

I'd think he's doing his job.

In his report, the inspector commented:
"Any electrical repairs attempted by anyone other than a licensed electrician should be approached with caution. The power to the entire house should be turned off prior to beginning any repair efforts, no matter how trivial the repair may seem. ... Missing strain relief at panel. Have a licensed electrician make further evaluation and corrections as needed."

I'd say he was doing his job and covering his ass at the same time.
I'd tell the buyer to pound salt, if they required that I use a
incensed electrician, though. If they want a licensed electrician to
inspect my work, fine. They pay.

I am surprised first at how invasive this inspector was. Second at how he ignored safe practices by not securing the power. Third that he would have the gall to make judgments on the sufficiency of the internals. Fourth that he would go a step further and suggest he really does not know enough (so what's he doing in there in the first place?); get a licensed electrician to evaluate.

Nonsense. Opening a live box is no big deal. I've worked in many
live boxes. I'd rather not but it's not all that dangerous.

He's not a licensed electrician or fire inspector, so he's giving his
opinion couched exactly as he should. He's actually leaving the door
open for you to claim that it's fine as is. It's up to the buyers to
decide whether to cancel the purchase because of this and up to you to
decide how to fix it if they demand that it be fixed. It's called
"negotiation". Personally, I've just fixed whatever the inspector
finds, as I see fit. If the buyers don't want to let me do the work,
they can find another house. It's mine until they sign the papers and
hand me the check.

On Fri, 1 Nov 2013 05:43:42 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

I have pulled panel covers from live panels its no biggie, if done carefully...

and even a main with the main breaker off still has power.........

My mains (both houses) are outside by the meter.

if the home inspector hadnt pulled the cover what we be your thoughts about that?

Being the seller, I'd just smile. Hell, the buyers of our other house
didn't even hire an inspector.

bud-- wrote:
On 11/1/2013 9:40 AM, wrote:
On Friday, November 1, 2013 10:58:27 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 1 Nov 2013 05:24:18 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

I've seen newer panels on the Holmes TV show where the upper part
has it's own separate cover, that has to be removed in addition
to the main cover.

That is the code in Canada.

You can't install a panel horizontally here. If a circuit breaker is
installed vertically, "on" must be up. Half the breaker positions
would be wrong.

I am not sure what you meant by "here". But, if "here" means the U.S., I
think that the panel can be installed horizontally (although I personally
hate that).

And, although I am not completely sure, I think that the code (NEC) says
that the panel can be horizontal but the main service disconnect (main
breaker) has to be installed such that "On" is "Up" and "Off" is "Down". I
don't think that applies to each breaker -- just the main service disconnect
switch.

The reason why I think that is that I recently had an electrician install
two new service panels. He put them both in upside down, with the main
breaker on the bottom and all of the individual breakers above the main
breaker. I hated that, but I looked it up and apparently that was within
code. I never thought to even ask about right side up or upside down since
I never saw one that was upside down. However, for my own sanity (or
neurosis), I had the electrician change the panels to what I consider to be
right side up -- the main breaker on top and the individual breakers below
the main breaker.

And, the reason why I mention this is that I am pretty sure that I was when
researching this I found that the code does allow a horizontal panel as long
as the main breaker's "On" position is "Up" and "Off" position is "Down".

On Fri, 1 Nov 2013 08:11:24 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Friday, November 1, 2013 11:01:15 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
wrote in message

...

I am in the process of selling my house. What do you all think of a home

inspector who takes off the breaker box cover off (not just opens the door

to expose the breakers; he had to remove four screws to get the cover off),

exposes the wire connections, all the while keeping the main breaker shut

and so the insides of the box remained electrically hot as he did a visual

inspection and took photos? The breaker box has a prominent sticker in it

that says to open the main breaker prior to removing the cover.



In his report, the inspector commented:

"Any electrical repairs attempted by anyone other than a licensed

electrician should be approached with caution. The power to the entire house

should be turned off prior to beginning any repair efforts, no matter how

trivial the repair may seem. ... Missing strain relief at panel. Have a

licensed electrician make further evaluation and corrections as needed."



I am surprised first at how invasive this inspector was. Second at how he

ignored safe practices by not securing the power. Third that he would have

the gall to make judgments on the sufficiency of the internals. Fourth that

he would go a step further and suggest he really does not know enough (so

what's he doing in there in the first place?); get a licensed electrician to

evaluate.







Sounds normal to me. The breaker box has to have stickers like that on it

for lawsuit protection. I bought a house about 9 years ago and the

inspector pulled the cover off. I worked as an electrician for a company

before retiring. We opened many boxes that would make the house box look

small. Also higher voltgage and current ratings.



He is not going to make any corrections. The statement about getting a

license electrician is boiler plate from the computer. Meaning it should be

corrected.



He could be checking to see if aluminum wiring is used in the house. That

could be a deal breaker for some.


This is the first person I've heard complaining that a
home inspector was too invasive in his procedure. Every other
one was "You can't believe all the stuff he missed, he never
went up on the roof, etc... "

He's SELLING the house. Of course the BUYER'S inspector was too
invasive. They always are (if you're the seller)! ;-)

On Fri, 01 Nov 2013 05:52:25 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

He is not invasive, he is doing his job. He'd be remiss if he did not
take the panel cover off. He also made a caution as many homeowners
would try to do the fix themselves and could get hurt, thus the
comment to get a licensed electrician.

Sounds like he did a good job.

Agree. I've seen an inspector not even look in the panel. They just
use a boiler-plate, fill in the blank generic form, with all the
clauses for CYA...

Some states may not even require a license for a home inspector or
trained in any of the trades. Take a online course and open a
business.

In one house I sold; the caller informed me X had to be fixed. Guess
what, I didn't have X. They had another home inspection in my file
when I was trying to sell... a government contractor - yep!

On 11/1/2013 9:40 AM, wrote:
On Friday, November 1, 2013 10:58:27 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 1 Nov 2013 05:24:18 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

I've seen newer panels on the Holmes TV show where the upper part
has it's own separate cover, that has to be removed in addition
to the main cover.

That is the code in Canada.

I see. I was wondering if it was a Canadian thing,
since Holmes is the only place I've seen it. It does
sound like a good idea to make them that way though.
Then with the main off and taking off the main cover
panel, there isn't anything energized someone going
to put in a breaker, or just poking around could touch.
Of course, I guess you could say if you know what
you're doing, it's easy to avoid doing that anyway.
And if you're not, you shouldn't be in there to begin
with.....

Now if someone could explain why on almost all the
Homes shows up there in Canada, they put the frigging panel
in sideways instead of vertical..... Seems really,
really dumb to me.

The top of the panel has a covered area (around the service conductors),
as you posted.

Apparently you can not run any other circuits through that area. That
means the wiring has to run down the side of the panel and come in the
lower side (which you see sometimes on Holmes). They apparently think it
is easier to install the panel horizontally and bring the wires in the
side, which is now on top.

You can't install a panel horizontally here. If a circuit breaker is
installed vertically, "on" must be up. Half the breaker positions would
be wrong.

writes:
On Friday, November 1, 2013 7:55:59 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Then you should be able to tell us whether there is in
fact a missing strain relief at the panel or not. Every inspection
I've had done, I made sure to be there so that the inspector
can point out things to me, I can ask questions, etc. =20

I felt the buyer had a right not to have the seller (me) present so he was =
uninhibited as possible about asking questions and getting to know what sup=
posedly may be his house. I think transparency is the key to good business.

I have not researched the requirements for housing strain relief at this po=
int. The panel was city approved. Hence I am left wondering if the code cha=
nged.

The NEC has always required that non-metallic sheathed cable (e.g. type NM-B) that
enters an electrical raceway, panelboard or metallic box uses a strain-relief
fitting installed to prevent abrasion of the thermoplastic insulation which can
lead to an unsafe condition. It is quite common for homeowners to simply
remove a knock-out and drop type NM into a panelbox when adding a circuit without
using the strain relief (a $0.25 part). It is also unsafe.

"bud--" wrote in message
eb.com...

When you worked on the high capacity equipment you needed personal
protection equipment. Minimal protection would be required for a house
panel and I don't worry about the many people here that remove panel
covers. But I think there is at least one state (MN?) that doesn't want
home inspectors in panels.


When I first started there were not many rules. Just the plant safety
glasses. Later there were several classes of protectioin required
determined by the ammount of power in the circuit. Everything from just
cotton or natural fiber cloths and safety glasses up to a heavy cal rated
coat, hood and gloves. There were several steps in between the two
extreams.

Even people in the area had to be so far back that did not have on the
protection. From a few feet to something like a thousnd feet.
Most higher powered circuit cabinets had stickers on them telling the level
required.

On 11/1/2013 11:21 AM, TomR wrote:
bud-- wrote:
On 11/1/2013 9:40 AM, wrote:
On Friday, November 1, 2013 10:58:27 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 1 Nov 2013 05:24:18 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

I've seen newer panels on the Holmes TV show where the upper part
has it's own separate cover, that has to be removed in addition
to the main cover.

That is the code in Canada.

You can't install a panel horizontally here. If a circuit breaker is
installed vertically, "on" must be up. Half the breaker positions
would be wrong.

I am not sure what you meant by "here". But, if "here" means the U.S., I
think that the panel can be installed horizontally (although I personally
hate that).

And, although I am not completely sure, I think that the code (NEC) says
that the panel can be horizontal but the main service disconnect (main
breaker) has to be installed such that "On" is "Up" and "Off" is "Down". I
don't think that applies to each breaker -- just the main service disconnect
switch.

The reason why I think that is that I recently had an electrician install
two new service panels. He put them both in upside down, with the main
breaker on the bottom and all of the individual breakers above the main
breaker. I hated that, but I looked it up and apparently that was within
code. I never thought to even ask about right side up or upside down since
I never saw one that was upside down. However, for my own sanity (or
neurosis), I had the electrician change the panels to what I consider to be
right side up -- the main breaker on top and the individual breakers below
the main breaker.

And, the reason why I mention this is that I am pretty sure that I was when
researching this I found that the code does allow a horizontal panel as long
as the main breaker's "On" position is "Up" and "Off" position is "Down".

"404.7 Indicating
General-use ... switches, circuit breakers, ... shall clearly indicate
whether they are in the open (off) or closed (on) position.
Where these switch or circuit breaker handles are operated vertically
rather than rotationally or horizontally, the up position of the handle
shall be the (on) position."

On 11/1/2013 9:01 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

wrote in message
...
I am in the process of selling my house. What do you all think of a home
inspector who takes off the breaker box cover off (not just opens the door
to expose the breakers; he had to remove four screws to get the cover off),
exposes the wire connections, all the while keeping the main breaker shut
and so the insides of the box remained electrically hot as he did a visual
inspection and took photos? The breaker box has a prominent sticker in it
that says to open the main breaker prior to removing the cover.

In his report, the inspector commented:
"Any electrical repairs attempted by anyone other than a licensed
electrician should be approached with caution. The power to the entire house
should be turned off prior to beginning any repair efforts, no matter how
trivial the repair may seem. ... Missing strain relief at panel. Have a
licensed electrician make further evaluation and corrections as needed."

I am surprised first at how invasive this inspector was. Second at how he
ignored safe practices by not securing the power. Third that he would have
the gall to make judgments on the sufficiency of the internals. Fourth that
he would go a step further and suggest he really does not know enough (so
what's he doing in there in the first place?); get a licensed electrician to
evaluate.

==============

Sounds normal to me. The breaker box has to have stickers like that on it
for lawsuit protection. I bought a house about 9 years ago and the
inspector pulled the cover off. I worked as an electrician for a company
before retiring. We opened many boxes that would make the house box look
small. Also higher voltgage and current ratings.

When you worked on the high capacity equipment you needed personal
protection equipment. Minimal protection would be required for a house
panel and I don't worry about the many people here that remove panel
covers. But I think there is at least one state (MN?) that doesn't want
home inspectors in panels.


He is not going to make any corrections. The statement about getting a
license electrician is boiler plate from the computer. Meaning it should be
corrected.

I agree it is boiler plate. In MN (and many areas) a homeowner can work
on the electrical in their own house. If allowed where the inspection
was made, the boiler plate interferes with that.


He could be checking to see if aluminum wiring is used in the house. That
could be a deal breaker for some.

On Friday, November 1, 2013 11:02:08 AM UTC-7, Scott Lurndal wrote:
The NEC has always required that non-metallic sheathed cable (e.g. type NM-B) that
enters an electrical raceway, panelboard or metallic box uses a strain-relief
fitting installed to prevent abrasion of the thermoplastic insulation which can
lead to an unsafe condition. It is quite common for homeowners to simply
remove a knock-out and drop type NM into a panelbox when adding a circuit without
using the strain relief (a $0.25 part). It is also unsafe.

First update: What Scott says above and a bit more. I called a local licensed, bonded and insured electrician to get some kind of estimate on the repair and an inspection of the panel. He said email him the report photos and he could come out for a free estimate. Twenty minutes later, he's at the house. Twenty more minutes, $45, two Halloween Snickers bars, later, he had the simple Romex connector in, educated me a little in excellent teaching style, inspected the panel, and invoiced the charges. He left the breaker shut, said no big deal, and had his hands on the sheathing of the wires. Second update: I feel like not only a jerk but am humbled. All posts read; where people made light of the journey of home selling is appreciated for the laughs (the best medicine). Pardon for not calling out everyone by name. Thanks again all.

The inspector noted a missing strain relief. That was perfect. He then used standard boiler plate warning the homeowner about doing any repairs him/herself. That was also exactly perfect, he was doing exactly what a good inspector was doing, finding a deficiency and warning the homeowner about the dangers of making repairs him/herself. I would give that inspector a 100% rating, especially compared to what I have seen and heard about many inspectors since my wife is a Realtor and has dealings with many levels of inspector competency.

Forgot to add the extra piece of humble pie for me today: The panel did have a modification, adding wiring for the garage door opener and two garage outlets. It must have been done post the initial inspection of the house many years ago. The Romex connector was left off this modification. The three breakers were not labeled until I figured out what they powered just a little while ago.

On Friday, November 1, 2013 2:02:08 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:

On Friday, November 1, 2013 7:55:59 AM UTC-7, wrote:

Then you should be able to tell us whether there is in

fact a missing strain relief at the panel or not. Every inspection

I've had done, I made sure to be there so that the inspector

can point out things to me, I can ask questions, etc. =20



I felt the buyer had a right not to have the seller (me) present so he was =

uninhibited as possible about asking questions and getting to know what sup=

posedly may be his house. I think transparency is the key to good business.




I didn't realize he was the seller and this inspector was
for the buyer. I've been the seller and have been present for the
inspection. Since he was working for the buyer, I didn't follow him
around, but I was there if he wanted to ask anything. But, another
strategy is maybe you don't want to be around for him to ask questions.
What I meant was as a buyer I would always be there for the
inspection.



I have not researched the requirements for housing strain relief at this po=

int. The panel was city approved. Hence I am left wondering if the code cha=

nged.



The NEC has always required that non-metallic sheathed cable (e.g. type NM-B) that

enters an electrical raceway, panelboard or metallic box uses a strain-relief

fitting installed to prevent abrasion of the thermoplastic insulation which can

lead to an unsafe condition. It is quite common for homeowners to simply

remove a knock-out and drop type NM into a panelbox when adding a circuit without

using the strain relief (a $0.25 part). It is also unsafe.

Agree, if it's romex, which is typical, it needs to have
a clamp on it where it enters the panel. If there is a cable
there missing a clamp, it should be obvious from the outside.
There are 25 other circuits there to look at and you would think even a
hack could play monkey see, monkey d, but as you point out, it's
not unusal for someone to foul it up.