First I'd like to say I'm a {farily} upright, honest sort of guy.
I'm buying my first home from someone, the seller/home owner.
When I went to the morgage broker he suggested having a home
inspection before making the contract final - and I would be the
one to pay for the inspection. No problem.

When I told the Seller, he said he had no objections to the
inspection, but he was told by a "friend" who buys and sales
homes, that people often take the Inspection report to the
bargining table and use it as a deal breaker, ie, EITHER FIX ALL
THE PROBLEMS IN THE REPORT or DROP THE PRICE OR WE WALK.
And the seller said when he quoted me a price, he gave me the
firm bottom price. He had it marked up to 'account' for any
negotiation.

I have to tell you this never, never occured to me. I am hoping
that the report will save me from buying a "Money Pit." I
realize the home I am trying to buy is not new and there will be
MINOR problems.

I don't have a friend who is a realestate agent to ask these
questions. Not even a friend of a friend of a friend who saw a
show.......

But, while I know some wear and tear is quite reasonable, what is
not. The easy answer would be "What can you afford." But that
is not a good answer. It the report comes back with a problem of
say Water Damage and $2000 to repair, should I eat the cost
What about $5000 for the Damage or $10 K.

ANY ANY ANY ANY advice whatso ever you can give me re buying
my first home would be greatly appreciated.

If I sound Ignorent, its cuz I is. Please help me.

All apollogies if this is not the right Forum to post this
questions, but I lurked for a while and the people of this group
seemed to be in the know.

Stephen H.

Get an inspection, you now think the house is fine and not needing any
repairs now or soon. If you find a big problem now that was unknown
deduct it from the price . If you find out you will soon need major
work, ex roof , heating, electric you can negotiate or walk. You want
to know what you are buying and dont want a money pit. If it needs
work, depending on type of problem, you get estimates and fix it to be
sure it is done right.

you gotta do what you gotta do. forget what the seller thinks of what you
are doing.

everything is negotiable. the worst that can happen is one party backs out
of the deal.

randy

"Stephen Huckaby" wrote in message
news

First I'd like to say I'm a {farily} upright, honest sort of guy.
I'm buying my first home from someone, the seller/home owner.
When I went to the morgage broker he suggested having a home
inspection before making the contract final - and I would be the
one to pay for the inspection. No problem.

When I told the Seller, he said he had no objections to the
inspection, but he was told by a "friend" who buys and sales
homes, that people often take the Inspection report to the
bargining table and use it as a deal breaker, ie, EITHER FIX ALL
THE PROBLEMS IN THE REPORT or DROP THE PRICE OR WE WALK.
And the seller said when he quoted me a price, he gave me the
firm bottom price. He had it marked up to 'account' for any
negotiation.

I have to tell you this never, never occured to me. I am hoping
that the report will save me from buying a "Money Pit." I
realize the home I am trying to buy is not new and there will be
MINOR problems.

I don't have a friend who is a realestate agent to ask these
questions. Not even a friend of a friend of a friend who saw a
show.......

But, while I know some wear and tear is quite reasonable, what is
not. The easy answer would be "What can you afford." But that
is not a good answer. It the report comes back with a problem of
say Water Damage and $2000 to repair, should I eat the cost
What about $5000 for the Damage or $10 K.

ANY ANY ANY ANY advice whatso ever you can give me re buying
my first home would be greatly appreciated.

If I sound Ignorent, its cuz I is. Please help me.

All apollogies if this is not the right Forum to post this
questions, but I lurked for a while and the people of this group
seemed to be in the know.

Stephen H.

ps.. go to the library. get 5 books on how to buy a house and read them.
you'll get the idea..

randy

"xrongor" wrote in message
...
you gotta do what you gotta do. forget what the seller thinks of what you
are doing.

everything is negotiable. the worst that can happen is one party backs
out of the deal.

randy

"Stephen Huckaby" wrote in message
news

First I'd like to say I'm a {farily} upright, honest sort of guy.
I'm buying my first home from someone, the seller/home owner.
When I went to the morgage broker he suggested having a home
inspection before making the contract final - and I would be the
one to pay for the inspection. No problem.

When I told the Seller, he said he had no objections to the
inspection, but he was told by a "friend" who buys and sales
homes, that people often take the Inspection report to the
bargining table and use it as a deal breaker, ie, EITHER FIX ALL
THE PROBLEMS IN THE REPORT or DROP THE PRICE OR WE WALK.
And the seller said when he quoted me a price, he gave me the
firm bottom price. He had it marked up to 'account' for any
negotiation.

I have to tell you this never, never occured to me. I am hoping
that the report will save me from buying a "Money Pit." I
realize the home I am trying to buy is not new and there will be
MINOR problems.

I don't have a friend who is a realestate agent to ask these
questions. Not even a friend of a friend of a friend who saw a
show.......

But, while I know some wear and tear is quite reasonable, what is
not. The easy answer would be "What can you afford." But that
is not a good answer. It the report comes back with a problem of
say Water Damage and $2000 to repair, should I eat the cost
What about $5000 for the Damage or $10 K.

ANY ANY ANY ANY advice whatso ever you can give me re buying
my first home would be greatly appreciated.

If I sound Ignorent, its cuz I is. Please help me.

All apollogies if this is not the right Forum to post this
questions, but I lurked for a while and the people of this group
seemed to be in the know.

Stephen H.

On Mon, 07 Feb 2005, Stephen Huckaby wrote:

First I'd like to say I'm a {farily} upright, honest sort of guy.
I'm buying my first home from someone, the seller/home owner.
When I went to the morgage broker he suggested having a home
inspection before making the contract final - and I would be the
one to pay for the inspection. No problem.

When I told the Seller, he said he had no objections to the
inspection, but he was told by a "friend" who buys and sales
homes, that people often take the Inspection report to the
bargining table and use it as a deal breaker, ie, EITHER FIX ALL
THE PROBLEMS IN THE REPORT or DROP THE PRICE OR WE WALK.
And the seller said when he quoted me a price, he gave me the
firm bottom price. He had it marked up to 'account' for any
negotiation.

Things are always negotiable, especially if you discover a major defect
that was not disclosed to you. That would also obligate the buyer to
repair or disclose that defect to any other potential buyer. And if
nobody met the seller's price, they either drop their price or keep the
house.

Of course some people are stubborn. When my boss discovered a structural
defect in a home he was considering (about $6000 to correct), the seller
refused to repair it or drop his price. So my boss bought a new home in a
nearby town (lower taxes anyway). But he heard that the guy with the
defect had to repair it before he could sell that other home.

When I bought a home, the problems that the home inspector found were
minor, like hot/neutral reversed on some outlets (which I fixed myself),
would probably need roofing within 5 years (no leaks or missing shingles),
and chiminy needs tuckpointing. But the home had been around since 1910
and reasonably priced (I paid less than assessed by lender). My only
unexpected expense since May 2002 was a vent damper for the boiler.

often being the first perons to tell someone there house isnt perfect is a
bad place to be. the seller is gonna have to fix somethin but wont accept
it easily.

randy

The seller has just made it simpler for you to decide what to do.

Get the inspection. If it turns up minor things you can deal with, go
ahead with the deal. If it turns up something you don't want to pay
for, tell the seller the deal is off because it doesn't meet your
inspection contingency.

Ordinarily, at that point, the seller negotiates a price allowance for
the repairs. But if this seller says he won't negotiate, you don't have
to worry about that, just tell him the house failed inspection and you
aren't buying it.

(This assumes that your offer includes a contingency for inspection --
if the house doesn't pass and you can't reach an agreement with the
seller, the deal is off, you get back your earnest money, the house goes
back on the market.)

--
is Joshua Putnam
http://www.phred.org/~josh/
Updated Bicycle Touring Books List:
http://www.phred.org/~josh/bike/tourbooks.html

"Joshua Putnam" wrote in message
...
The seller has just made it simpler for you to decide what to do.

Get the inspection. If it turns up minor things you can deal with, go
ahead with the deal. If it turns up something you don't want to pay
for, tell the seller the deal is off because it doesn't meet your
inspection contingency.

Ordinarily, at that point, the seller negotiates a price allowance for
the repairs. But if this seller says he won't negotiate, you don't have
to worry about that, just tell him the house failed inspection and you
aren't buying it.

(This assumes that your offer includes a contingency for inspection --
if the house doesn't pass and you can't reach an agreement with the
seller, the deal is off, you get back your earnest money, the house goes
back on the market.)

but you dont get the inspection fee back. educating yourself via the
library can get you quite a ways without having to pay someone.

randy

In article ,
says...

"Joshua Putnam" wrote in message
...

(This assumes that your offer includes a contingency for inspection --
if the house doesn't pass and you can't reach an agreement with the
seller, the deal is off, you get back your earnest money, the house goes
back on the market.)

but you dont get the inspection fee back. educating yourself via the
library can get you quite a ways without having to pay someone.

True, but in the context of an ongoing real estate transaction, starting
from scratch as a do-it-yourself inspector may be either too slow, or
too superficial.

--
is Joshua Putnam
http://www.phred.org/~josh/
Updated Bicycle Touring Books List:
http://www.phred.org/~josh/bike/tourbooks.html

that people often take the Inspection report to the
bargining table and use it as a deal breaker, ie, EITHER FIX ALL
THE PROBLEMS IN THE REPORT or DROP THE PRICE OR WE WALK.

Yeah, and ... The seller IS responsible to fix/remedy all major
defects.
Every home has some minor defects.

Get an inspection, find very reputable inspector been in business for
a
long time.

If a house has structural problems, water damage, failed septic system,
asbestos,
bad plumbing (PB pipes), termites, faulty aluminum wires,
non-functional HVAC, or
leaking roof you will be out a lof of money.

Most states require sellers disclosure. Seller must disclose those
issues.

If your inspector find any of the major defects ask seller fix it, or
reduce the price.

If he refuses, remind him and his agent that he NOW will be required to
disclose major defects found by your inspector. If his broker values
his/hers
license they will.

I had to spend some dough to fix major defects on my house, prior to
market.

Minor defects is a different issue, I refused to fix em, unless they
cheap to fix.

Brian

Stephen Huckaby wrote:
First I'd like to say I'm a {farily} upright, honest sort of guy.
I'm buying my first home from someone, the seller/home owner.
When I went to the morgage broker he suggested having a home
inspection before making the contract final - and I would be the
one to pay for the inspection. No problem.

.....


Stephen H.

You have gotten some good advice. I will make one additional
suggestion. You are going to part with far more money than you have for
anything before. It is likely the third biggest commitment of your life
(wife and kids are #1 & 2). Get a professional on your side. Any realtor
is no the sellers side, they get paid more the more you pay. Get an
attorney or other professional representative that is not benefited by a
higher price to the home.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 22:03:35 -0500, Stephen Huckaby
wrote:
First I'd like to say I'm a {farily} upright, honest sort of guy.
I'm buying my first home from someone, the seller/home owner.
When I went to the morgage broker he suggested having a home
inspection before making the contract final - and I would be the
one to pay for the inspection. No problem.

I don't understand the problem. Are you buying his home so he will
be friends with you? I hope not. You are making a business deal
that needs to be done professionally. That requires the inspection
and the inspection often leads to negotiation with the seller on the
repairs. The seller always has the option of backing out of the
deal until he signs the escrow contract papers, so there is not really
a problem, here - providing you get the inspection.

Remember that you will be making an offer which he must accept for
there to be a valid contract. His offer to sell is really just an
invitation for bids(offers to buy).




When I told the Seller, he said he had no objections to the
inspection, but he was told by a "friend" who buys and sales
homes, that people often take the Inspection report to the
bargining table and use it as a deal breaker, ie, EITHER FIX ALL
THE PROBLEMS IN THE REPORT or DROP THE PRICE OR WE WALK.
And the seller said when he quoted me a price, he gave me the
firm bottom price. He had it marked up to 'account' for any
negotiation.

I have to tell you this never, never occured to me. I am hoping
that the report will save me from buying a "Money Pit." I
realize the home I am trying to buy is not new and there will be
MINOR problems.

I don't have a friend who is a realestate agent to ask these
questions. Not even a friend of a friend of a friend who saw a
show.......

But, while I know some wear and tear is quite reasonable, what is
not. The easy answer would be "What can you afford." But that
is not a good answer. It the report comes back with a problem of
say Water Damage and $2000 to repair, should I eat the cost
What about $5000 for the Damage or $10 K.

ANY ANY ANY ANY advice whatso ever you can give me re buying
my first home would be greatly appreciated.

If I sound Ignorent, its cuz I is. Please help me.

All apollogies if this is not the right Forum to post this
questions, but I lurked for a while and the people of this group
seemed to be in the know.

Stephen H.

"Stephen Huckaby" wrote in message
news

First I'd like to say I'm a {farily} upright, honest sort of guy.
I'm buying my first home from someone, the seller/home owner.
When I went to the morgage broker he suggested having a home
inspection before making the contract final - and I would be the
one to pay for the inspection. No problem.

When I told the Seller, he said he had no objections to the
inspection, but he was told by a "friend" who buys and sales
homes, that people often take the Inspection report to the
bargining table and use it as a deal breaker, ie, EITHER FIX ALL
THE PROBLEMS IN THE REPORT or DROP THE PRICE OR WE WALK.
And the seller said when he quoted me a price, he gave me the
firm bottom price. He had it marked up to 'account' for any
negotiation.

He has the choice of cutting his rice or walking away. Sounds like he is
ready to just say "no" to lower offers. Maybe. You just never know.


I have to tell you this never, never occured to me. I am hoping
that the report will save me from buying a "Money Pit." I
realize the home I am trying to buy is not new and there will be
MINOR problems.

That is what a home insector should do. There are both good and bad
inspectors. Some will miss things, others will do a superb job.



But, while I know some wear and tear is quite reasonable, what is
not. The easy answer would be "What can you afford." But that
is not a good answer. It the report comes back with a problem of
say Water Damage and $2000 to repair, should I eat the cost
What about $5000 for the Damage or $10 K.

Te answer lies with your deisre to own that particular house. Real estate is
vauled at what people are willing to pay. If the base price of a house is
$200,000 three people can look at it and walk away with three idfferent
ideas. One will try to buy it lower because he things it is good practice.
Another may be willing to pay the asking price but expects the house to be
in good condition. The third may think the house is severely underprice,
knows it the location he always dreamed of, and is willing to pay for
$20,000 in repairs just to have it. The deciding factor is your willingness
to pay the asked price, and the lender's willingness to finance it for you.
They usually want an apraisal to be sure they won't have a loss if you run
off to a South Sea island.

You have to decide what your pain tolerance is on something like that. Is
renovation something you enjoy doing, or a chore to be avoided. If you have
serios concerns after seeing the report, just move on to another house.

ANY ANY ANY ANY advice whatso ever you can give me re buying
my first home would be greatly appreciated.


My advice is, ignore the price that the seller is offering it at
marking it up by, wanting, or whatever, and decide what the
house is worth to YOU. If there's something that you think
needs to be fixed, don't ask the seller to fix it, figure out what
you think it would cost YOU to fix it, and reduce your offer
by that much. If the seller doesn't want to sell the house for
what you're willing to pay, walk. There are other houses,
and if it takes another year to find one you like, you can use
the intervening time to build up your downpayment.

"Joshua Putnam" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

"Joshua Putnam" wrote in message
...

(This assumes that your offer includes a contingency for inspection --
if the house doesn't pass and you can't reach an agreement with the
seller, the deal is off, you get back your earnest money, the house
goes
back on the market.)

but you dont get the inspection fee back. educating yourself via the
library can get you quite a ways without having to pay someone.

True, but in the context of an ongoing real estate transaction, starting
from scratch as a do-it-yourself inspector may be either too slow, or
too superficial.

im certainly not saying its a substitute for a proper professional
inspection, but you should be able to spot obvious problems yourself, and
the books will give you a 'punch list' of things you wouldnt have thought of
checking. stuff like making sure there is flashing around a chimney,
problems with the ground sloping towards the house, etc...

if thats too much for someone, i have to wonder how they held a job and
earned enough money to buy a house in the first place...

randy

"Goedjn" wrote in message
...


ANY ANY ANY ANY advice whatso ever you can give me re buying
my first home would be greatly appreciated.


My advice is, ignore the price that the seller is offering it at
marking it up by, wanting, or whatever, and decide what the
house is worth to YOU.

this is rule 1 in the home buying game. the sellers listing price is almost
meaningless.

randy

Your mortgage broker probably can recommend an inspector

personally, i wouldnt get a recommendation for an inspector from ANYONE
involved in the transaction with me that stands to make money when i buy a
house. the broker, the agents, they all have their own adjenda.

if you must, check their references thouroughly.

randy

Do not hire a home inspector. Hire a plumber, an HVAC guy, a roofer, an
electrician, and a pest specialist. You can walk aroung and look at paint
and everything else. HAve these pros give you a buyers inspection. These
people have been doing this for a while and know what to really look for.

--
Bob Pietrangelo


www.comfort-solution.biz
On Time or Your Service Call is FREE
Preventive Maintenance Specialist





"Stephen Huckaby" wrote in message
news

First I'd like to say I'm a {farily} upright, honest sort of guy.
I'm buying my first home from someone, the seller/home owner.
When I went to the morgage broker he suggested having a home
inspection before making the contract final - and I would be the
one to pay for the inspection. No problem.

When I told the Seller, he said he had no objections to the
inspection, but he was told by a "friend" who buys and sales
homes, that people often take the Inspection report to the
bargining table and use it as a deal breaker, ie, EITHER FIX ALL
THE PROBLEMS IN THE REPORT or DROP THE PRICE OR WE WALK.
And the seller said when he quoted me a price, he gave me the
firm bottom price. He had it marked up to 'account' for any
negotiation.

I have to tell you this never, never occured to me. I am hoping
that the report will save me from buying a "Money Pit." I
realize the home I am trying to buy is not new and there will be
MINOR problems.

I don't have a friend who is a realestate agent to ask these
questions. Not even a friend of a friend of a friend who saw a
show.......

But, while I know some wear and tear is quite reasonable, what is
not. The easy answer would be "What can you afford." But that
is not a good answer. It the report comes back with a problem of
say Water Damage and $2000 to repair, should I eat the cost
What about $5000 for the Damage or $10 K.

ANY ANY ANY ANY advice whatso ever you can give me re buying
my first home would be greatly appreciated.

If I sound Ignorent, its cuz I is. Please help me.

All apollogies if this is not the right Forum to post this
questions, but I lurked for a while and the people of this group
seemed to be in the know.

Stephen H.

A book is a poor substitute for a professional home inspector. To
expect a typical home buyer, who won't even know what flashing is, to
climb up on a roof, inspect it and determine if it's done correctly is
crazy. Home inspectors see thousands of homes and all the common
problems so they know what to look for. I know someone is going to say
inspectors don't know squat, and I would agree there are some that are
not worth their fee, but this is like choosing any contractor. If you
do it right, you'll get a good one. And even if you don't, for someone
who isn't knowledgeable about home construction or maybe hasn't even
owned a home before, any inspection is better than none. Another key
point: An inspection report done by a home inspector is going to carry
a lot more weight in negotiating with the seller than a
non-professional opinion of the buyer. And in most cases, the
inspection more than pays for itself. It's rare for an inspector to
not find at least a few hundred dollars in repairs that the seller will
then negotiate off the purchase price. When I bought my home, I got
$1K+ in concessions from the seller after the inspection and the house
was only 8 years old.

For the OP, I'd make sure the purchase contract has an inspection
contingency. Then, get an inspection done. If it shows no major
issues and the house is fairly priced, then you can go ahead and buy
it. If it needs some bigger cost repairs, then either walk or get
estimates to repair and ask the seller to lower the price. And I'd
make sure I had a lawyer review the contract before signing, as for
most buyers, that is money well spent too.

"Do not hire a home inspector. Hire a plumber, an HVAC guy, a roofer,
an
electrician, and a pest specialist. You can walk aroung and look at
paint
and everything else."

That's an interesting idea. Besides costing many times what a home
inspector would cost, who's going to give opinions on issues like the
foundation, possible non-existant or too short railings on decks/stairs
that are required by code, attic insulation/ventilation, moisture
problems, mis-routed bathroom vents, driveway pavement, drainage, the
list goes on. And even the ones here that can be seen are not going to
be obvious to a newbie homebuyer like the OP.

wrote in message
oups.com...
"Do not hire a home inspector. Hire a plumber, an HVAC guy, a roofer,
an
electrician, and a pest specialist. You can walk aroung and look at
paint
and everything else."

That's an interesting idea. Besides costing many times what a home
inspector would cost, who's going to give opinions on issues like the
foundation, possible non-existant or too short railings on decks/stairs
that are required by code, attic insulation/ventilation, moisture
problems, mis-routed bathroom vents, driveway pavement, drainage, the
list goes on. And even the ones here that can be seen are not going to
be obvious to a newbie homebuyer like the OP.

If the inspector finds a plumbing problem, then it would be prudent to have
a plumber check it out. I'd agree that way.

On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 22:03:35 -0500, Stephen Huckaby
scribbled this interesting note:


First I'd like to say I'm a {farily} upright, honest sort of guy.
I'm buying my first home from someone, the seller/home owner.
When I went to the morgage broker he suggested having a home
inspection before making the contract final - and I would be the
one to pay for the inspection. No problem.

You've had some good advise, as well as another kind of advise...

There is no substitute for first hand knowledge and experience. Home
inspectors are usually quite good at reading the "moron meters" that
you poke into all the outlets to test for polarity, and if they got a
good meter it will even properly test those fancy outlets found in wet
areas of your home. Assuming the inspector knows how to understand and
interpret the results the "moron meter" gives him or her...

Inspectors. I'm sure there are some good ones out there simply because
the law of averages demands that not all of them are incompetent. Some
of them have to be worth their fee. Unfortunately, if that inspector
was really any good at plumbing, hvac, electrical, roofing, structural
engineering, framing, drywall, etc., etc., etc., then wouldn't that
individual be better off making more money in that particular trade
than in performing inspections?

In our neck of the woods all you have to do to be a home inspector is
pass a state mandated test and show some minimum number of hours of
coursework. You don't have to have any first-hand knowledge or
experience about what goes into building and/or maintaining a home.

That being said, if you can find a good inspector, one who works well
for his fee, one who knows what to look for and what constitutes real
concerns, then you would do quite well to hire him to look over your
potential purchase and give you his considered, expert opinion. If, on
the other hand all you can find are home inspecting hacks, then forget
the home inspector and see if you can get real professionals out to
look things over-something you ought to do if a good home inspection
report uncovers any major problems just so you can, at the same time,
get estimates for how much those problems would cost to fix. This
increases your negotiating position.

Under no circumstances should you have the current owner perform any
of the repairs. The current owner has an incentive to cut costs at
that point, which runs counter to your interests. Negotiate a lower
price and pay for the repairs yourself or have the seller place the
repair funds in escrow, to be paid out to the contractor(s) when the
repairs are performed and payment is due.

Home inspectors. A few are good. A very few. Considering that even a
good home inspection can't look at the framing, can't look at all the
wiring, can't check out all the plumbing, etc. simply because all
those systems are covered up except at their access points (meters,
electrical boxes, switches and plugs, toilets, sinks, tubs, etc.) and
they don't have the specialized knowledge of the professionals in
those fields...well, lets just say the report is an opinion of a
moderately educated individual, which you can and should become
yourself if you want to make wise purchasing decisions.


--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 16:02:42 -0600, John Willis
wrote:

On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 22:03:35 -0500, Stephen Huckaby
scribbled this interesting note:


First I'd like to say I'm a {farily} upright, honest sort of guy.
I'm buying my first home from someone, the seller/home owner.
When I went to the morgage broker he suggested having a home
inspection before making the contract final - and I would be the
one to pay for the inspection. No problem.

You've had some good advise, as well as another kind of advise...

There is no substitute for first hand knowledge and experience. Home
inspectors are usually quite good at reading the "moron meters" that
you poke into all the outlets to test for polarity, and if they got a
good meter it will even properly test those fancy outlets found in wet
areas of your home. Assuming the inspector knows how to understand and
interpret the results the "moron meter" gives him or her...

Inspectors. I'm sure there are some good ones out there simply because
the law of averages demands that not all of them are incompetent. Some
of them have to be worth their fee. Unfortunately, if that inspector
was really any good at plumbing, hvac, electrical, roofing, structural
engineering, framing, drywall, etc., etc., etc., then wouldn't that
individual be better off making more money in that particular trade
than in performing inspections?

In our neck of the woods all you have to do to be a home inspector is
pass a state mandated test and show some minimum number of hours of
coursework. You don't have to have any first-hand knowledge or
experience about what goes into building and/or maintaining a home.

That being said, if you can find a good inspector, one who works well
for his fee, one who knows what to look for and what constitutes real
concerns, then you would do quite well to hire him to look over your
potential purchase and give you his considered, expert opinion. If, on
the other hand all you can find are home inspecting hacks, then forget
the home inspector and see if you can get real professionals out to
look things over-something you ought to do if a good home inspection
report uncovers any major problems just so you can, at the same time,
get estimates for how much those problems would cost to fix. This
increases your negotiating position.

Under no circumstances should you have the current owner perform any
of the repairs. The current owner has an incentive to cut costs at
that point, which runs counter to your interests. Negotiate a lower
price and pay for the repairs yourself or have the seller place the
repair funds in escrow, to be paid out to the contractor(s) when the
repairs are performed and payment is due.

Home inspectors. A few are good. A very few. Considering that even a
good home inspection can't look at the framing, can't look at all the
wiring, can't check out all the plumbing, etc. simply because all
those systems are covered up except at their access points (meters,
electrical boxes, switches and plugs, toilets, sinks, tubs, etc.) and
they don't have the specialized knowledge of the professionals in
those fields...well, lets just say the report is an opinion of a
moderately educated individual, which you can and should become
yourself if you want to make wise purchasing decisions.

I've been following this thread with some interest- I do home
inspections, as well as other kinds- There are two of us in our
office who do them, we are both ASHI certified, as well as being ICC
certified as Housing and Property Maintenance, Residential Building,
Residential Electrical, Residential Plumbing and Residential
MechanicaInspectors- I am also certified by the ICC as a Certified
Building Official, a Certified Building Code Official, A Certified
Plans Examiner, a Certified Housing Code Official and a Commercial
Building Inspector- You can get a good home inspector if you look
around and check qualifications! I never get involved in price
negotiations, my job is to make sure the buyer knows everything they
should know about the investment they are considering making- Their
final decision is completely up to them, I just try to make sure it's
an informed decision!

Dan

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 01:14:15 GMT, Dan scribbled
this interesting note:

I've been following this thread with some interest- I do home
inspections, as well as other kinds- There are two of us in our
office who do them, we are both ASHI certified, as well as being ICC
certified as Housing and Property Maintenance, Residential Building,
Residential Electrical, Residential Plumbing and Residential
MechanicaInspectors- I am also certified by the ICC as a Certified
Building Official, a Certified Building Code Official, A Certified
Plans Examiner, a Certified Housing Code Official and a Commercial
Building Inspector- You can get a good home inspector if you look
around and check qualifications! I never get involved in price
negotiations, my job is to make sure the buyer knows everything they
should know about the investment they are considering making- Their
final decision is completely up to them, I just try to make sure it's
an informed decision!

Dan

As I suspected, there are some out there who are qualified.


--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

Stephen Huckaby wrote on 07 Feb
2005:

I am hoping that the report will save me from buying a
"Money Pit."

I think you've figured out by now that you should have an
inspector, and there should be an inspection contingency in your
contract that will allow you to walk away with your deposit
refunded if you aren't satisfied with the report. At your option,
that can include the seller having to fix everything, both major
and minor.

So what you're really asking is how to negotiate with the seller
once you've seen the inspection report.

The most critical thing is to know what the house is worth. You
should have looked at all the sales of comparable houses in the
neighborhood in the last nine months. If you're getting a good
deal, you can eat a lot of repair costs. If you're paying at or
above the market, the seller should have to eat the repair costs.

Or better, give you a repair allowance or lower the selling price.
If you have a choice, you always want to do the fixes yourself or
have your contractor do them. If the seller does them, he or she
will spend the absolute minimum necessary. Faucet broken? What's
the cheapest one at the local home center?

If the seller is irrational or has expectations that are way too
high, he or she won't negotiate. At that point, it's up to you to
decide how badly you want that house.

I'm uncomfortable about you buying your first house without
professional advice. Perhaps you can find a buyer's agent who will
work for you for a set fee since you already have the house picked
out. If you're paying $5000 too much for the house, a $500 or
$1000 fee won't seem like much. If you lose your deposit, you may
lose a whole lot more than you'd spend for a professional.

--
Doug Boulter

To reply by e-mail, remove the obvious word from the e-mail address

In article 2, Doug Boulter
says...

I'm uncomfortable about you buying your first house without
professional advice. Perhaps you can find a buyer's agent who will
work for you for a set fee since you already have the house picked
out. If you're paying $5000 too much for the house, a $500 or
$1000 fee won't seem like much. If you lose your deposit, you may
lose a whole lot more than you'd spend for a professional.


On the other hand....

....I know someone who never took that plunge. Partly from fear that they'd not
do this house-buying thing exactly right, and might have a septic problem for
example (maybe 10K), or gosh forbid, pay too much (that 5K you're talking
about).

And has lost out over the past five years of the on-average 50-80% increase in
home sales prices over that time (well over 100K).

I took the plunge eleven years ago, new to town, in a very down market (largest
company in area had just laid off tens of thousands), and bought a house in a
great location, knowing about a possible septic problem (only needed new tank),
some possible water problems (3K for BDry). (All clay soil around here, damn
near every house I looked at had something..)

I've seen a 150% to possibly 200% increase in the value of the house and
property. (Yes, that's twice to three times as much.)

How this applies to the OP's situation depends on the particulars of course.

Banty

Excellent point.
My only concern is termites and maybe mold. So I'd get a termite
inspection from a termite company with termite insurance. Not sure
who I trust to do a mold inspection though.

If those come back clean then I'd buy the house and live with the
other defects.



On 9 Feb 2005 04:45:35 -0800, Banty wrote:

In article 2, Doug Boulter
says...

I'm uncomfortable about you buying your first house without
professional advice. Perhaps you can find a buyer's agent who will
work for you for a set fee since you already have the house picked
out. If you're paying $5000 too much for the house, a $500 or
$1000 fee won't seem like much. If you lose your deposit, you may
lose a whole lot more than you'd spend for a professional.


On the other hand....

...I know someone who never took that plunge. Partly from fear that they'd not
do this house-buying thing exactly right, and might have a septic problem for
example (maybe 10K), or gosh forbid, pay too much (that 5K you're talking
about).

And has lost out over the past five years of the on-average 50-80% increase in
home sales prices over that time (well over 100K).

I took the plunge eleven years ago, new to town, in a very down market (largest
company in area had just laid off tens of thousands), and bought a house in a
great location, knowing about a possible septic problem (only needed new tank),
some possible water problems (3K for BDry). (All clay soil around here, damn
near every house I looked at had something..)

I've seen a 150% to possibly 200% increase in the value of the house and
property. (Yes, that's twice to three times as much.)

How this applies to the OP's situation depends on the particulars of course.

Banty

On 8 Feb 2005 12:39:50 -0800, wrote:

A book is a poor substitute for a professional home inspector. To
expect a typical home buyer, who won't even know what flashing is, to


Most home inspectors are a poor substitute for a professional
home inspector. And if you don't know enough to evaluate
the house, the chances are pretty good that you don't know
enough to evaluate the inspector, either.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:AE5Od.27985$QS5.11366@trndny06...
(snip)
Te answer lies with your deisre to own that particular house. Real estate
is vauled at what people are willing to pay. If the base price of a house
is $200,000 three people can look at it and walk away with three idfferent
ideas. One will try to buy it lower because he things it is good
practice. Another may be willing to pay the asking price but expects the
house to be in good condition. The third may think the house is severely
underprice, knows it the location he always dreamed of, and is willing to
pay for $20,000 in repairs just to have it. The deciding factor is your
willingness to pay the asked price, and the lender's willingness to
finance it for you. They usually want an apraisal to be sure they won't
have a loss if you run off to a South Sea island.

You have to decide what your pain tolerance is on something like that. Is
renovation something you enjoy doing, or a chore to be avoided. If you
have serios concerns after seeing the report, just move on to another
house.

Excellent advice to which I would add the following:
1. Sometimes all those zeroes in the price can take your attention away
from the reality of the transaction, so pretend you're dickering on a
used car. How would you respond to a vendor who said the price was
firm and a mechanics report wouldn't change it? How much would you
drop your offer for a toasted engine, bad transmission, bald tires etc. Is
it
a "must have" '57 Belair or a '98 Corolla?

2. It might be worthwhile to get a realtor to help in your first home
purchase. This is what they do and a good one can be invaluable.
I think they're overpaid but I've used them for several transactions
and I don't regret it. A good realtor knows the answers to all those
niggling questions, should know a good home inspector and can tell
you what similar homes have been selling for in the area. It might
be worth the peace of mind, and 2 or 3%, or whatever the going rate
is in your area, to have a professional smooth your first purchase.
Brian, in Cedar

"Goedjn" wrote in message
...
On 8 Feb 2005 12:39:50 -0800, wrote:

A book is a poor substitute for a professional home inspector. To
expect a typical home buyer, who won't even know what flashing is, to


Most home inspectors are a poor substitute for a professional
home inspector. And if you don't know enough to evaluate
the house, the chances are pretty good that you don't know
enough to evaluate the inspector, either.

well said.

randy

"Goedjn" wrote in message

Most home inspectors are a poor substitute for a professional
home inspector. And if you don't know enough to evaluate
the house, the chances are pretty good that you don't know
enough to evaluate the inspector, either.

I'm looking forward to reading your tips on how to do that. Will you be
posting them today?

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 20:27:24 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


"Goedjn" wrote in message

Most home inspectors are a poor substitute for a professional
home inspector. And if you don't know enough to evaluate
the house, the chances are pretty good that you don't know
enough to evaluate the inspector, either.

I'm looking forward to reading your tips on how to do that. Will you be
posting them today?


As a consuer, the best you can probably do is ask for American Society
of Home Inspectors certification- Their requirements are relatively
stringent and continuing education is required- There are some other
organizations out there, but the requirements are considerably less-

Dan

Stephen Huckaby wrote:
First I'd like to say I'm a {farily} upright, honest sort of guy.
I'm buying my first home from someone, the seller/home owner.
When I went to the morgage broker he suggested having a home
inspection before making the contract final - and I would be the
one to pay for the inspection. No problem.

When I told the Seller, he said he had no objections to the
inspection, but he was told by a "friend" who buys and sales
homes, that people often take the Inspection report to the
bargining table and use it as a deal breaker, ie, EITHER FIX ALL
THE PROBLEMS IN THE REPORT or DROP THE PRICE OR WE WALK.
And the seller said when he quoted me a price, he gave me the
firm bottom price. He had it marked up to 'account' for any
negotiation.

I have to tell you this never, never occured to me. I am hoping
that the report will save me from buying a "Money Pit." I
realize the home I am trying to buy is not new and there will be
MINOR problems.

I don't have a friend who is a realestate agent to ask these
questions. Not even a friend of a friend of a friend who saw a
show.......

But, while I know some wear and tear is quite reasonable, what is
not. The easy answer would be "What can you afford." But that
is not a good answer. It the report comes back with a problem of
say Water Damage and $2000 to repair, should I eat the cost
What about $5000 for the Damage or $10 K.

ANY ANY ANY ANY advice whatso ever you can give me re buying
my first home would be greatly appreciated.

If I sound Ignorent, its cuz I is. Please help me.

All apollogies if this is not the right Forum to post this
questions, but I lurked for a while and the people of this group
seemed to be in the know.

Stephen H.

Hi,
Get a reputable realtor and also have inspection done. You don't have to
deal directly to the seller, realtor's job that is to negotiate on your
behalf. Remember there are crooks everywhere. Seller, realtor, even
inspectors.
House buying is chain of negotiations and conditions.
Remember, most important on house buying is the location, location,
location of the house.
Good luck,
Tony

Typically bid contracts include a clause that says if an inspection
discovers repairs that exceed some amount (say $2,000), then you are no
longer obligated. In other words, if the buyer is willing to fix those
problems that add up to less than $2,000, you still have to buy the house.
If the buyer is not willing to fix those problems, or the problems add up to
more than $2,000 even if the buyer is willing, then you can legally walk.