Just wondering for now. Have an all copper plumbing. What happen to my ground if the pipes are replaced with PEX? Have two connections that I am aware of. One to the cold water pipe at water heater. The other one is ground rod by the meter.

So, what to do to the cold water ground? It is required by code here. Does that mean that PEX is not feasible?

thanks
richard

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 15:39:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Just wondering for now. Have an all copper plumbing. What happen to my ground if the pipes are replaced with PEX? Have two connections that I am aware of. One to the cold water pipe at water heater. The other one is ground rod by the meter.

So, what to do to the cold water ground? It is required by code here. Does that mean that PEX is not feasible?

thanks
richard

déjà vu

On 10/30/2013 06:39 PM, wrote:
Just wondering for now. Have an all copper plumbing. What happen to
my ground if the pipes are replaced with PEX? Have two connections
that I am aware of. One to the cold water pipe at water heater. The
other one is ground rod by the meter.

So, what to do to the cold water ground? It is required by code here.
Does that mean that PEX is not feasible?

thanks richard


I would assume that you would have to run a heavy gauge copper wire back
to the panel ground bus. An electric WH should already be grounded however.

If you replace any segments with PEX I would make sure that any
remaining copper segments are grounded. I don't know the actual code
requirements but it's just a common sense good idea. Really if you have
all copper it would make sense just to do any repairs in copper to
maintain ground path.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 18:13:42 -0500, Gordon Shumway
wrote:

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 15:39:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Just wondering for now. Have an all copper plumbing. What happen to my ground if the pipes are replaced with PEX? Have two connections that I am aware of. One to the cold water pipe at water heater. The other one is ground rod by the meter.

So, what to do to the cold water ground? It is required by code here. Does that mean that PEX is not feasible?

thanks
richard

déjà vu

Just use WD-40 and duct tape.

Where I live, they just drive a grounding rod into the soil outside your house, connect the ground bus of the panel to that grounding rod, and that's your ground.

On 10/30/2013 3:39 PM, wrote:
Just wondering for now. Have an all copper plumbing. What happen to my ground if the pipes are replaced with PEX? Have two connections that I am aware of. One to the cold water pipe at water heater. The other one is ground rod by the meter.

So, what to do to the cold water ground? It is required by code here. Does that mean that PEX is not feasible?

thanks
richard

Go talk to the building code inspector in your jurisdiction.
Only they can give you advice that will pass THEIR inspection.
When I replaced my underground water service pipe with pex
I found that what the codebook said and what they'd pass
were not exactly the same.

On 10/30/2013 6:39 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 10/30/2013 06:39 PM, wrote:
Just wondering for now. Have an all copper plumbing. What happen to
my ground if the pipes are replaced with PEX? Have two connections
that I am aware of. One to the cold water pipe at water heater. The
other one is ground rod by the meter.

So, what to do to the cold water ground? It is required by code here.
Does that mean that PEX is not feasible?

thanks richard


I would assume that you would have to run a heavy gauge copper wire back
to the panel ground bus. An electric WH should already be grounded
however.

The only thing grounded to the copper plumbing in my house (built '74)
was the telephone connection and it WASN'T grounded since the only part
of the plumbing system actually IN the ground was the plastic piping to
the well casing.g

Grounding of the electrical system was accomplished through a grounding
bar sunk into the ground and tied into the meter can at the service
entrance.

As for your hot water heater being grounded... it is, but if properly
installed, it's grounded only through the electrical service connection
since the incoming cold piping and outgoing hot piping SHOULD be a
dielectric fitting that isolates the hot and cold piping from ground and
each other to prevent electrolysis.

On 10/30/2013 8:18 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 18:13:42 -0500, Gordon Shumway
wrote:

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 15:39:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Just wondering for now. Have an all copper plumbing. What happen to my ground if the pipes are replaced with PEX? Have two connections that I am aware of. One to the cold water pipe at water heater. The other one is ground rod by the meter.

So, what to do to the cold water ground? It is required by code here. Does that mean that PEX is not feasible?

thanks
richard

déjà vu

Just use WD-40 and duct tape.

Silly, everyone knows WD is a lubricant, not a conductor.
However, metal foil duct tape could work.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Thursday, October 31, 2013 5:38:16 AM UTC-4, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 10/30/2013 6:39 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:

On 10/30/2013 06:39 PM, wrote:

Just wondering for now. Have an all copper plumbing. What happen to

my ground if the pipes are replaced with PEX? Have two connections

that I am aware of. One to the cold water pipe at water heater. The

other one is ground rod by the meter.



So, what to do to the cold water ground? It is required by code here.

Does that mean that PEX is not feasible?



thanks richard





I would assume that you would have to run a heavy gauge copper wire back

to the panel ground bus. An electric WH should already be grounded

however.



The only thing grounded to the copper plumbing in my house (built '74)

was the telephone connection and it WASN'T grounded since the only part

of the plumbing system actually IN the ground was the plastic piping to

the well casing.g


The metal plumbing system of the house by code needs
to be bonded to the electrical system ground. The telephone
line installed used the metal piping of the house,
which in turn is bonded/grounded back to the electrical
system. That's how it should have been done, anyway, so
I doubt the telehone line is not grounded. And if it
isn't done as described above, it's dangerous and should
be fixed.






Grounding of the electrical system was accomplished through a grounding

bar sunk into the ground and tied into the meter can at the service

entrance.


And there' no bonding over to the metal water pipes of the house?




As for your hot water heater being grounded... it is, but if properly

installed, it's grounded only through the electrical service connection

since the incoming cold piping and outgoing hot piping SHOULD be a

dielectric fitting that isolates the hot and cold piping from ground and

each other to prevent electrolysis.


I think whether code requires dielectric unions varies by
jurisidiction.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message ...

On 10/30/2013 8:18 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 18:13:42 -0500, Gordon Shumway
wrote:

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 15:39:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Just wondering for now. Have an all copper plumbing. What happen to my
ground if the pipes are replaced with PEX? Have two connections that I
am aware of. One to the cold water pipe at water heater. The other one
is ground rod by the meter.

So, what to do to the cold water ground? It is required by code here.
Does that mean that PEX is not feasible?

thanks
richard

déjà vu

Just use WD-40 and duct tape.

Silly, everyone knows WD is a lubricant, not a conductor.


However, metal foil duct tape could work.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org

Chris... What is the AMP rating on Foil Duct tape. (grin) WW
..

Richard,

For the reason that you raise here using water pipes as a ground is not
well thought of today. It may no longer be up to code where you are.
You have a ground rod by your meter. Most probably that is your ground.
It doesn't hurt to have the water pipes connected to the grounding system
whether they are serving as a ground also, or are separated from earth by
pex.

Dave M.

On 10/31/2013 05:38 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 10/30/2013 6:39 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 10/30/2013 06:39 PM, wrote:
Just wondering for now. Have an all copper plumbing. What happen to
my ground if the pipes are replaced with PEX? Have two connections
that I am aware of. One to the cold water pipe at water heater. The
other one is ground rod by the meter.

So, what to do to the cold water ground? It is required by code here.
Does that mean that PEX is not feasible?

thanks richard


I would assume that you would have to run a heavy gauge copper wire back
to the panel ground bus. An electric WH should already be grounded
however.

The only thing grounded to the copper plumbing in my house (built '74)
was the telephone connection and it WASN'T grounded since the only part
of the plumbing system actually IN the ground was the plastic piping to
the well casing.g

Grounding of the electrical system was accomplished through a grounding
bar sunk into the ground and tied into the meter can at the service
entrance.

As for your hot water heater being grounded... it is, but if properly
installed, it's grounded only through the electrical service connection
since the incoming cold piping and outgoing hot piping SHOULD be a
dielectric fitting that isolates the hot and cold piping from ground and
each other to prevent electrolysis.



You're right of course, I forgot about that. But the cold would also be
grounded even if it's electrically insulated from the tank. And I've
even heard tell about some jurisdictions wanting the hot bonded to the
cold around the heater, which seems like a good idea from an electrical
safety standpoint (and probably happens anyway even without a bonding
wire, at least in a house where there's a metal faucet hooked to both
pipes.)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 10/31/2013 10:34 AM, WW wrote:

So, what to do to the cold water ground? It is required by code
here. Does that mean that PEX is not feasible?

thanks
richard

déjà vu

Just use WD-40 and duct tape.

Silly, everyone knows WD is a lubricant, not a conductor.


However, metal foil duct tape could work.

Chris... What is the AMP rating on Foil Duct tape. (grin) WW

Got to be good for 20 to 30 amps, if you get the good stuff.

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 15:39:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

So, what to do to the cold water ground? It is required by code here. Does that mean that PEX is not feasible?

Does the local permit office approve the use of PEX? Some places may
still not have it as acceptable?!

....call your local code enforcement office. Have a list of questions
ready

On Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:37:09 AM UTC-4, David L. Martel wrote:
Richard,



For the reason that you raise here using water pipes as a ground is not

well thought of today.

As we just went through exhaustively in another thread,
that isn't true. If you have an incoming metal water pipe
to the house, not only is it a permissible grounding electrode,
it's required to be used as one of the grounding electrodes.

On the other hand, if you mean being able to use a cold water
pipe at just any place in a house as a ground to tie something to,
eg CATV, sat dish, etcto ground it, for new work, that I agree
is not acceptable.




It may no longer be up to code where you are.

You have a ground rod by your meter. Most probably that is your ground.

It doesn't hurt to have the water pipes connected to the grounding system

whether they are serving as a ground also, or are separated from earth by

pex.



Dave M.

Metal water pipes *must* be bonded to ground. It's not an option.

On Thursday, October 31, 2013 2:03:20 PM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 15:39:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



So, what to do to the cold water ground? It is required by code here. Does that mean that PEX is not feasible?



Does the local permit office approve the use of PEX? Some places may

still not have it as acceptable?!



...call your local code enforcement office. Have a list of questions

ready


I googled around a bit and it looks like this is a gray area and
a call to the AHJ sounds like a good idea. If all the piping in
a house is PEX, it does not appear that you have to ground the sinks,
showers, etc. On the other hand, let's say you
have a line that serves the upstairs of the house and you're replacing
one section of that in the basement with PEX, PVC, etc. Then the
plastic section needs to have a wire bond connection across it so
that the upstairs section remains grounded.

But what about cases that are in between? I saw one thread where
a contractor said the inspector required any metal piping that
exceeded 18" in length to be bonded. A call to the electrical
inspector is probably the best thing, if you're knowledgable
enough about how things are supposed to be grounded, bonded in
general. Otherwise, I'd get an electrician in there.

On Thursday, October 31, 2013 9:37:09 AM UTC-5, David L. Martel wrote:
Richard,



For the reason that you raise here using water pipes as a ground is not

well thought of today. It may no longer be up to code where you are.

You have a ground rod by your meter. Most probably that is your ground.

It doesn't hurt to have the water pipes connected to the grounding system

whether they are serving as a ground also, or are separated from earth by

pex.



Dave M.

Dave,

I failed to mention (just remembered after reading other posts) that the ground to the water heater is ran/tied into the bus bar at the breaker. The bus ground is tied into a copper ground rod.

Reason I asked is I am thinking of having some of the main runs from just under the house (3/4") to some points closer to the 1/2" faucet pipes. I was thinking that PEX may be cheaper. However, I am not that comfortable in losing that secondary ground.

thanks

On Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:17:52 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thursday, October 31, 2013 9:37:09 AM UTC-5, David L. Martel wrote:

Richard,







For the reason that you raise here using water pipes as a ground is not



well thought of today. It may no longer be up to code where you are.



You have a ground rod by your meter. Most probably that is your ground.



It doesn't hurt to have the water pipes connected to the grounding system



whether they are serving as a ground also, or are separated from earth by



pex.







Dave M.



Dave,



I failed to mention (just remembered after reading other posts) that the ground to the water heater is ran/tied into the bus bar at the breaker. The bus ground is tied into a copper ground rod.



Reason I asked is I am thinking of having some of the main runs from just under the house (3/4") to some points closer to the 1/2" faucet pipes. I was thinking that PEX may be cheaper. However, I am not that comfortable in losing that secondary ground.



thanks

If I have it correct, it's not a secondary ground, whatever you mean
by that. You're talking about possibly removing a section of the existing metal water pipe serving part of the house and replacing it with PEX, correct?
Like replacing a section that goes to say the bathroom? If you do that you must run a bond wire to tie the sections back together again. It's not a secondary ground, it's almost always the only ground for those runs.

On Friday, November 1, 2013 10:54:36 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 1 Nov 2013 05:44:52 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:



On Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:17:52 PM UTC-4, wrote:

On Thursday, October 31, 2013 9:37:09 AM UTC-5, David L. Martel wrote:



Richard,















For the reason that you raise here using water pipes as a ground is not







well thought of today. It may no longer be up to code where you are.







You have a ground rod by your meter. Most probably that is your ground.







It doesn't hurt to have the water pipes connected to the grounding system







whether they are serving as a ground also, or are separated from earth by







pex.















Dave M.







Dave,







I failed to mention (just remembered after reading other posts) that the ground to the water heater is ran/tied into the bus bar at the breaker. The bus ground is tied into a copper ground rod.







Reason I asked is I am thinking of having some of the main runs from just under the house (3/4") to some points closer to the 1/2" faucet pipes. I was thinking that PEX may be cheaper. However, I am not that comfortable in losing that secondary ground.







thanks



If I have it correct, it's not a secondary ground, whatever you mean

by that. You're talking about possibly removing a section of the existing metal water pipe serving part of the house and replacing it with PEX, correct?

Like replacing a section that goes to say the bathroom? If you do that you must run a bond wire to tie the sections back together again. It's not a secondary ground, it's almost always the only ground for those runs.



There is a bit of debate about bonding around plastic sections in

interior metal piping systems among the inspector community.

It is not specifically required in the code.

Doesn't NEC 250.104 (A1) cover it?

(A1) Metal water piping system installed in or attached to
a building or structure shall be bonded to the service eqpt
enclosure, the grounded conductor at the service, the grounding
electrode when of sufficient size, or to one or more grounding
electrodes used.


I don't see how that would allow one to take out a 10 ft
section of copper pipe in the basement that feeds through
to other parts of the house, eg the second story bathroom,
put in plastic and not bond it back together. That section
going upstairs is still a metal water piping system installed
in the building, no?

On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 07:31:55 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 10/30/2013 8:18 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 18:13:42 -0500, Gordon Shumway
wrote:

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 15:39:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Just wondering for now. Have an all copper plumbing. What happen to my ground if the pipes are replaced with PEX? Have two connections that I am aware of. One to the cold water pipe at water heater. The other one is ground rod by the meter.

So, what to do to the cold water ground? It is required by code here. Does that mean that PEX is not feasible?

thanks
richard

déjà vu

Just use WD-40 and duct tape.

Silly, everyone knows WD is a lubricant, not a conductor.

No, no, no. "WD" stands for "water displacement".

However, metal foil duct tape could work.

Flue tape?

Trader,

Doesn't NEC 250.104 (A1) cover it?

(A1) Metal water piping system installed in or attached to
a building or structure shall be bonded to the service eqpt
enclosure, the grounded conductor at the service, the grounding
electrode when of sufficient size, or to one or more grounding
electrodes used.


I don't see how that would allow one to take out a 10 ft
section of copper pipe in the basement that feeds through
to other parts of the house, eg the second story bathroom,
put in plastic and not bond it back together. That section
going upstairs is still a metal water piping system installed
in the building, no?

The problem is that many DIY repairs (imagine a frozen, burst pipe) do
not bond the pex. Such repairs are not subject to building inspectors.
It's not just DIYers either. Some years ago I bought a replacement water
softener from a large chain. They sent out a "professional". His van said
Plumbing. When he was done I noticed that he had bonded the inlet pipe to
the outlet pipe. Both pipes were pex. He and his helper didn't have a clue.

The code is failing in the real world.

Dave M.

On Friday, November 1, 2013 1:22:15 PM UTC-4, David L. Martel wrote:
Trader,



Doesn't NEC 250.104 (A1) cover it?



(A1) Metal water piping system installed in or attached to

a building or structure shall be bonded to the service eqpt

enclosure, the grounded conductor at the service, the grounding

electrode when of sufficient size, or to one or more grounding

electrodes used.





I don't see how that would allow one to take out a 10 ft

section of copper pipe in the basement that feeds through

to other parts of the house, eg the second story bathroom,

put in plastic and not bond it back together. That section

going upstairs is still a metal water piping system installed

in the building, no?



The problem is that many DIY repairs (imagine a frozen, burst pipe) do

not bond the pex. Such repairs are not subject to building inspectors.

I agree with that. But gfre said:

"There is a bit of debate about bonding around plastic sections in
interior metal piping systems among the inspector community.
It is not specifically required in the code. "

That was the issue, not that homeowners are doing it
without following code. I was questioning what the debate
was about and cited what I think in the code says you
have to bond it, so I was curious what interpretation
some inspectors have that allow it. I can see if you
run PEX from the basement to
a bathroom, it's only convenient to get to within a few
feet of the shower with PEX, so they let you leave that
small remaining portion of the old meatl pipe unbonded.
In that case, there is only a few feet of it, it obviously
goes to the shower and it's unlikely anything else is relying
on the ground. I also saw from googling somewhere that
an inspector would allow 18" of metal piping to remain
unbonded. Again, I get that, because at 18" it should
be obvious where it goes, that nothing else is connected
to it, that it's extremely unlikely to wind up energized,
etc.

But as I said, I don't see why an inspector would allow
you to take out a 10ft section of metal pipe in an old
house where it's often not clear where all the piping
goes to, you can't visibly inspect it, you don't know
what might have been wired to it in the past, etc.
So, I think we're in agreement, it's just that if I
understand it correctly, gfre is saying some inspectors
are OK with not bonding across the 10 ft plastic section
and I'm curious what their basis is.




It's not just DIYers either. Some years ago I bought a replacement water

softener from a large chain. They sent out a "professional". His van said

Plumbing. When he was done I noticed that he had bonded the inlet pipe to

the outlet pipe. Both pipes were pex. He and his helper didn't have a clue.


That's pretty funny or pretty bad, depending on how you
look at it.





The code is failing in the real world.



Dave M.

Was it supposed to have a permit and be inspected? That
would catch it, presumably, at least here in NJ.

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 15:39:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Just wondering for now. Have an all copper plumbing. What happen to my
ground if the pipes are replaced with PEX? Have two connections that I
am aware of. One to the cold water pipe at water heater. The other one
is ground rod by the meter.

So, what to do to the cold water ground? It is required by code here.
Does that mean that PEX is not feasible?

thanks
richard

Why would anyone replace copper pipe with PEX? Copper is the best pipe
available, and should last you a lifetime. You want to replace it with
that cheap plastic crap that will probably fail in 10 years. You must
be an IDIOT!!!!

On 11/1/2013 8:34 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 15:39:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Just wondering for now. Have an all copper plumbing. What happen to my
ground if the pipes are replaced with PEX? Have two connections that I
am aware of. One to the cold water pipe at water heater. The other one
is ground rod by the meter.

So, what to do to the cold water ground? It is required by code here.
Does that mean that PEX is not feasible?

thanks
richard

Why would anyone replace copper pipe with PEX? Copper is the best pipe
available, and should last you a lifetime. You want to replace it with
that cheap plastic crap that will probably fail in 10 years. You must
be an IDIOT!!!!

I think you have some serious fact checking to do. As good as copper
is, it is subject to corrosion and pin holing in certain soils. Ask
anyone who has had to have a plumber break through the slab to repair a
leak in the copper line. There were serious failures with polybutylene
piping, though it was the crimp rings used that caused most of the
problems. Pex seems to have become the piping of choice at this time.

--


___________________________________

Keep the whole world singing . . .
Dan G
remove the seven

agreed PEX is very good, easy to run, tolerant of being frozen, it just expands a bit...
'
best of all no one will steal pex, since it has no scrap values....

stealing copper plumbing is a big industry nationwide.......

a old friend is looking to buy a fixer upper, i have been going along with him.

most homes have all the copper stolen, one home had all the metal stollen including furnace and duct work, one home had most of the alunimum siding stolen.

On Wednesday, October 30, 2013 6:39:59 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Just wondering for now. Have an all copper plumbing. What happen to my ground if the pipes are replaced with PEX? Have two connections that I am aware of. One to the cold water pipe at water heater. The other one is ground rod by the meter.



So, what to do to the cold water ground? It is required by code here. Does that mean that PEX is not feasible?



thanks

richard

if you replace the outdoor main line with pex its probably a good idea to leave the old copper line abandoned as a ground connection.

if anyone replaces a section of copper with pex then its probably best to install a copper ground jumper around the pex area

And, the jumper better be something sturdier/heavier/thicker/larger diameter than an old conductor from a telephone cable.

On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 19:17:09 -0500, DanG wrote:

On 11/1/2013 8:34 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 15:39:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Just wondering for now. Have an all copper plumbing. What happen to my
ground if the pipes are replaced with PEX? Have two connections that I
am aware of. One to the cold water pipe at water heater. The other one
is ground rod by the meter.

So, what to do to the cold water ground? It is required by code here.
Does that mean that PEX is not feasible?

thanks
richard

Why would anyone replace copper pipe with PEX? Copper is the best pipe
available, and should last you a lifetime. You want to replace it with
that cheap plastic crap that will probably fail in 10 years. You must
be an IDIOT!!!!

I think you have some serious fact checking to do. As good as copper
is, it is subject to corrosion and pin holing in certain soils. Ask
anyone who has had to have a plumber break through the slab to repair a
leak in the copper line. There were serious failures with polybutylene
piping, though it was the crimp rings used that caused most of the
problems. Pex seems to have become the piping of choice at this time.

Not because it is good, rather because it is cheap.

On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 19:17:09 -0500, DanG wrote:

Why would anyone replace copper pipe with PEX? Copper is the best pipe
available, and should last you a lifetime. You want to replace it with
that cheap plastic crap that will probably fail in 10 years. You must
be an IDIOT!!!!


you replied to Home Guy From Canada. The same clown that thinks
HVAC components in an attic are stupid. Shows what he knows.

I think you have some serious fact checking to do. As good as copper
is, it is subject to corrosion and pin holing in certain soils. Ask
anyone who has had to have a plumber break through the slab to repair a
leak in the copper line. There were serious failures with polybutylene
piping, though it was the crimp rings used that caused most of the
problems. Pex seems to have become the piping of choice at this time.

*Some* PEX failures were from the fittings made in Canada. Kitec sp
brand. To much zinc was used when fittings were made ... I think this
caused corrosion and leaks at the fittings. There was a large law
suit over this and homes damaged.

My PEX; manifold system - single runs to each water feature has never
failed. Second owner. House was first occupied Mar '97.

On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 11:25:50 -0500, wrote:

I think you have some serious fact checking to do. As good as copper
is, it is subject to corrosion and pin holing in certain soils. Ask
anyone who has had to have a plumber break through the slab to repair a
leak in the copper line. There were serious failures with polybutylene
piping, though it was the crimp rings used that caused most of the
problems. Pex seems to have become the piping of choice at this time.

Not because it is good, rather because it is cheap.

.... Both, actually

On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 09:23:35 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 11:25:50 -0500, wrote:

I think you have some serious fact checking to do. As good as copper
is, it is subject to corrosion and pin holing in certain soils. Ask
anyone who has had to have a plumber break through the slab to repair a
leak in the copper line. There were serious failures with polybutylene
piping, though it was the crimp rings used that caused most of the
problems. Pex seems to have become the piping of choice at this time.

Not because it is good, rather because it is cheap.

... Both, actually

I sure don't like PEX at all. I'd *MUCH* rather have copper but this
house has PVC. :-( My other house is PEX which was a PITA. Hated
it.

On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 12:35:28 -0500, wrote:

My other house is PEX which was a PITA. Hated
it.

What was the problem?

wrote:
On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 19:17:09 -0500, DanG wrote:

On 11/1/2013 8:34 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 15:39:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Just wondering for now. Have an all copper plumbing. What happen to my
ground if the pipes are replaced with PEX? Have two connections that I
am aware of. One to the cold water pipe at water heater. The other one
is ground rod by the meter.

So, what to do to the cold water ground? It is required by code here.
Does that mean that PEX is not feasible?

thanks
richard

Why would anyone replace copper pipe with PEX? Copper is the best pipe
available, and should last you a lifetime. You want to replace it with
that cheap plastic crap that will probably fail in 10 years. You must
be an IDIOT!!!!

I think you have some serious fact checking to do. As good as copper
is, it is subject to corrosion and pin holing in certain soils. Ask
anyone who has had to have a plumber break through the slab to repair a
leak in the copper line. There were serious failures with polybutylene
piping, though it was the crimp rings used that caused most of the
problems. Pex seems to have become the piping of choice at this time.

Not because it is good, rather because it is cheap.

Hmm,
Cu pipe won't last when water it carries is quite acidic. Poly. pipes
are OK in colder climate. Still Cu pipe brings water upto your house.
Gnd braid has to be connected there to the pipe at the entry point to
your house.

On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 10:12:03 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 12:35:28 -0500, wrote:

My other house is PEX which was a PITA. Hated
it.

What was the problem?

Slow. Impossible to add to. Difficult to work with. You name it.
Crap! The manifolds were goodness but I just added a bunch of ball
valves in the basement of my previous house. Copper is trivial to
work with (getting ready to plumb my current house with compressed air
- all copper)

On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 13:13:04 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 19:17:09 -0500, DanG wrote:

On 11/1/2013 8:34 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 15:39:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Just wondering for now. Have an all copper plumbing. What happen to my
ground if the pipes are replaced with PEX? Have two connections that I
am aware of. One to the cold water pipe at water heater. The other one
is ground rod by the meter.

So, what to do to the cold water ground? It is required by code here.
Does that mean that PEX is not feasible?

thanks
richard

Why would anyone replace copper pipe with PEX? Copper is the best pipe
available, and should last you a lifetime. You want to replace it with
that cheap plastic crap that will probably fail in 10 years. You must
be an IDIOT!!!!

I think you have some serious fact checking to do. As good as copper
is, it is subject to corrosion and pin holing in certain soils. Ask
anyone who has had to have a plumber break through the slab to repair a
leak in the copper line. There were serious failures with polybutylene
piping, though it was the crimp rings used that caused most of the
problems. Pex seems to have become the piping of choice at this time.

Not because it is good, rather because it is cheap.

Hmm,
Cu pipe won't last when water it carries is quite acidic.

Don't do that.

Poly. pipes are OK in colder climate.

Georgia isn't exactly cold.

Still Cu pipe brings water upto your house.

Wrong.

Gnd braid has to be connected there to the pipe at the entry point to
your house.

What *are* you talking about?

On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 17:28:58 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 10:12:03 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 12:35:28 -0500, wrote:

My other house is PEX which was a PITA. Hated
it.

What was the problem?

Slow. Impossible to add to. Difficult to work with. You name it.
Crap! The manifolds were goodness but I just added a bunch of ball
valves in the basement of my previous house. Copper is trivial to
work with (getting ready to plumb my current house with compressed air
- all copper)

Maybe you have not seen a quality installed PEX system in a house. PEX
is trivial next to copper.

neener neener

On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 15:18:26 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 17:28:58 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 10:12:03 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 12:35:28 -0500, wrote:

My other house is PEX which was a PITA. Hated
it.

What was the problem?

Slow. Impossible to add to. Difficult to work with. You name it.
Crap! The manifolds were goodness but I just added a bunch of ball
valves in the basement of my previous house. Copper is trivial to
work with (getting ready to plumb my current house with compressed air
- all copper)

Maybe you have not seen a quality installed PEX system in a house. PEX
is trivial next to copper.

Don't believe it. My experience tells me PEX is junk. I'd never have
it again. No pressure and a PITA to work with in existing
installations. It may be cheap and easy to install but it's a PITA to
work on. Monkeys can do copper supply lines. Waste is more difficult
but not as difficult as paying for it. ;-)

neener neener

Oren wrote:
On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 17:28:58 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 10:12:03 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 03 Nov 2013 12:35:28 -0500, wrote:

My other house is PEX which was a PITA. Hated
it.

What was the problem?

Slow. Impossible to add to. Difficult to work with. You name it.
Crap! The manifolds were goodness but I just added a bunch of ball
valves in the basement of my previous house. Copper is trivial to
work with (getting ready to plumb my current house with compressed air
- all copper)

Maybe you have not seen a quality installed PEX system in a house. PEX
is trivial next to copper.

neener neener

Hi,
Hear, hear. I have limited experience using PEX but I did feel anything
different. Good cutter and crimper and make sure it is straight not
trying to coil up. In-floor heating with PEX is real nice. Golf course
in front of my house use PEX in ground around holes piping hot water
in early spring to promote grass growth. My BIL designed some of those
on golf courses around here.

On 11/3/13 12:22 PM, Oren wrote:
My PEX; manifold system - single runs to each water feature has never
failed. Second owner. House was first occupied Mar '97.

Just wondering...

Considering the claims that PEX "doesn't have enough [water]
pressure"...

Is there a gpm limit (or some other kind of measurement)
when PEX is used (vis-a-vis copper)?

Will one end up with a whole house that behaves like a
2.5gpm shower head?

On Monday, November 4, 2013 12:26:56 AM UTC-5, John Albert wrote:
On 11/3/13 12:22 PM, Oren wrote:

My PEX; manifold system - single runs to each water feature has never

failed. Second owner. House was first occupied Mar '97.



Just wondering...



Considering the claims that PEX "doesn't have enough [water]

pressure"...



Is there a gpm limit (or some other kind of measurement)

when PEX is used (vis-a-vis copper)?



Will one end up with a whole house that behaves like a

2.5gpm shower head?

I'd be curious to know more about the claimed pressure issue too.
The inside diameter of the pipe is all that should really matter.
Replace a 3/4" copper pipe with 3/4" PEX and I would think they
would be close. I would think PEX might be a little less
because being more flexible, the pipe profile might not be
perfectly round. But this is the first time I've heard of
there being a noticeable, real world issue with it.

In fact, I thought that with the way PEX is typically installed,
ie central manifold with homeruns to various locations, it was
actually better with regard to good pressure, flow rates
at the various end points.